00:00www.sorgett.com.info
00:08Tornando con 12 Minutes
00:09con Taras Kachka,
00:11Deputy Prime Minister
00:12of Ukraine for European
00:13and Euro-Atlantic Integration.
00:15Thank you for being here.
00:16Thank you for inviting me.
00:18Minister, Germany's Chancellor
00:19Friedrich Merz propost
00:20an interim associate membership
00:23for Ukraine with the European Union
00:25allowing participation
00:26but without voting rights.
00:28Now, this is something that President Zelensky
00:30described as unfair and rejected.
00:33What specifically makes this model
00:34unacceptable for Ukraine?
00:37It is unacceptable if it is an alternative
00:40to full membership
00:41and this is a starting point
00:43for all discussions about future of Ukraine
00:46is that there are no alternative
00:49for the fast merit-based
00:50but full membership in the European Union.
00:54Any type of alternatives
00:55are simply not acceptable
00:57and not worth any discussions.
01:00So that's why it is
01:02the formula is very clear
01:03that we need to have
01:06a fast, comprehensive,
01:08normal accession process
01:10that will end
01:11with a signing of a treaty of accession
01:13under Article 49
01:14of the Treaty of European Union.
01:16So this is normal accession.
01:19Everything else
01:22I think that it doesn't matter
01:24but we will see
01:26what else in the letter of Chancellor Merz.
01:31Do you see any sort of phased
01:33or partial integration for Ukraine
01:35or it's a no-go?
01:37So gradual integration
01:39is a term that exists
01:41within the accession process
01:42so that from the 1st of January 2026
01:45we started Rome like at home
01:46when the project where Ukraine
01:49is treated like a member state
01:50of the European Union
01:52so the same rights
01:52and the same obligations
01:53we use in association agreement
01:55for these purposes.
01:58For us
01:59the integration
02:01into the internal market
02:02even before the accession
02:04to the European Union
02:05is of utmost interest
02:07because our business
02:08wants to be treated
02:09as a business
02:10of the European Union
02:12with no trade barriers
02:13but it should not
02:16decrease the attention
02:18or move any resources
02:21from accession negotiations.
02:23Ukraine set a target
02:24to complete all the internal
02:25obligations
02:26and be technically ready
02:28for the EU membership
02:28by the end of 2027
02:31but it does take
02:32sometimes from candidates
02:33countries decade
02:35to finally join
02:36the European Union.
02:37Is this something
02:38that Ukraine is ready
02:39to wait longer
02:41much longer
02:41in this case?
02:42Here we still have
02:44certain prejudice
02:45towards Ukraine.
02:47For Ukraine
02:48this decade
02:49started in
02:50like 15 years ago
02:52or even earlier
02:53when we negotiated
02:54association agreement
02:55a lot of our
02:57policies are based
02:59on EU rules
02:59so that like
03:00food safety
03:01or technical regulations
03:03and as well
03:04in the most important topic
03:05as a rule of law
03:06so what we are doing now
03:08is completing the reform
03:10that started in 2016
03:12with review
03:13of the constitution
03:14so that's why
03:15we absolutely
03:16rationally
03:17and in absolute
03:19sobriety
03:19we know
03:21that
03:21all the benchmarks
03:23that are already
03:24defined by the
03:25European Union
03:26are easily
03:27implemented
03:28in the
03:29forthcoming
03:2912-8 months
03:30we are conscious
03:32that we are
03:33on the final stage
03:34of negotiations
03:35we are not
03:36starting this
03:36but there are
03:37some people
03:38in different member states
03:39who still believe
03:40that if cluster 1
03:41will open
03:42only like
03:43here in June
03:44so now
03:45then it will
03:46only start
03:47the process
03:48of reforms
03:48in Ukraine
03:49otherwise
03:50so the opening
03:51of a cluster
03:51will open
03:53the final countdown
03:54we've heard
03:54this indication
03:55regarding June
03:56also from
03:56Enlargement Commissioner
03:57Marta Kos
03:58when it comes
03:58to the cluster 1
03:59which is of course
04:00focused on democracy
04:01and the rule of law
04:03she also said
04:05that she expects
04:06other clusters
04:06to open in July
04:07what's your timeline?
04:09our timeline
04:10is that we are already
04:11behind the deadline
04:12three clusters
04:13were ready to open
04:14a year ago
04:15when Hungary
04:16formally started
04:17blocking the
04:19consideration
04:19of the free packages
04:21in December
04:22the member states
04:24communicated
04:25the benchmarks
04:26for these clusters
04:27to us
04:27it was like
04:29a front loading
04:29so that we
04:30broke through
04:31the process
04:33of opening
04:34of clusters
04:34in March
04:36we got benchmarks
04:37for the remaining
04:38three out of six clusters
04:40so everything
04:41is already done
04:42so that's why
04:42we are already
04:43behind the schedule
04:45so that's why
04:45we believe
04:46that all six clusters
04:48can be open
04:49already in June
04:50but now everything
04:51depends on the bureaucracy
04:52so that all the minor steps
04:54that left behind
04:56and of course
04:57we still need to find
04:58the final arrangements
05:00with Hungary
05:00because they have
05:01relatively new government
05:03that still deals
05:04with a lot of issues
05:05this is what I wanted to ask you
05:06obviously on Hungary
05:07and the Hungarian Vita
05:08for so long
05:09the previous government
05:10has been blocking
05:11the opening
05:12of the clusters
05:13now with the new government
05:14the things
05:15are changing
05:16there are consultations
05:17now being held
05:17between Kyiv
05:18and Budapest
05:20do you see
05:21this consultation
05:22specifically
05:22on the issue
05:23of minorities
05:25in Ukraine
05:25which is
05:26the cornerstone
05:27for Budapest
05:28and for the new government
05:28as well
05:29do you see
05:30this being sorted
05:31for the clusters
05:33opening in June
05:34first we already heard
05:36the statement
05:37of foreign
05:38foreign minister
05:39of Hungary
05:40and deputy prime minister
05:41Anita Orban
05:42that Hungary
05:43will not block anything
05:44so that in the European Union
05:46so this is already
05:48like a major news
05:49for everyone
05:50and we started
05:52like very very early
05:54on 8th of May
05:54we started consultations
05:56with Budapest
05:58on national minorities
06:00and we need to be
06:01very clear
06:02that Ukraine
06:03treats Hungarian
06:05community
06:06in Ukraine
06:06with full full respect
06:07all their needs
06:09are satisfied
06:10so this is not
06:11a commitment
06:12this is reality
06:13for us
06:13they are absolutely
06:15integral part
06:16of Ukrainian
06:17Ukrainian society
06:18with full respects
06:19to their
06:19national identity
06:21so we have
06:22almost 100 schools
06:24for Hungarians
06:25satisfying all demands
06:26so that means
06:27that literally
06:28every pupil
06:28every child
06:30in Ukraine
06:30that wants
06:31to learn
06:32in Hungarian
06:33or to learn
06:34Hungarian language
06:35while learning
06:37has this possibility
06:38to do it
06:38what we offer
06:40as well
06:41to previous government
06:42and we continue
06:44to do so
06:45with current government
06:46is to fine tune
06:47the legislation
06:48for everyone
06:48to be aware
06:50that this
06:51incredibly good atmosphere
06:52will not change
06:53eventually
06:54I don't know
06:55under some
06:56different
06:57circumstances
06:58but we need
07:00this to be proved
07:01as well
07:01by the constructive
07:02steps of Hungary
07:03here in Brussels
07:04in the council
07:06in different level
07:07of consideration
07:07of the packages
07:08for opening
07:09of the clusters
07:09which we agreed
07:12will happen
07:13so I think
07:14that by mid of June
07:16everything will be okay
07:17as if it will continue
07:19with the same pace
07:20this fine tuning
07:22does it have to happen
07:23before the official
07:24opening of the cluster
07:25before Hungary's
07:27veto is no longer there
07:28or the commitment
07:29is enough
07:30and then the clusters
07:31could open
07:32with the commitment
07:33in our opinion
07:34so we already
07:35gave all necessary
07:37guarantees
07:38within cluster one
07:39so that what
07:40we are discussing
07:40now is that
07:41what else
07:43might be needed
07:44for these guarantees
07:46I think that
07:47the dialogue
07:48on national minorities
07:49between Ukraine
07:50and Hungary
07:51will last
07:52like permanently
07:53this is
07:53we also have
07:54like a permanent
07:55commission
07:55on national minorities
07:57between Ukraine
07:58and Hungary
07:59so what kind
08:00of form
08:01of let's say
08:03confirming
08:04this
08:04you know
08:05our will
08:06and interest
08:07this is something
08:08that we are
08:09still discussing
08:10so that
08:10I hope
08:12that we will
08:13see this news
08:13apart from Hungary
08:15there might be
08:15other countries
08:16potentially
08:17that could
08:18block clusters
08:19for Ukraine
08:20and you've indicated
08:21yourself
08:21that one of these
08:22countries
08:22might be Poland
08:24when it comes
08:25to agriculture
08:25there is no
08:27big secret
08:27so that
08:28Polish agriculture
08:29treats Ukrainian
08:30agriculture
08:30as a competition
08:31so last week
08:33was full of contacts
08:35with Polish government
08:37I am co-chair
08:39of our intergovernmental
08:41commission
08:41with Poland
08:42so we discussed
08:43all these things
08:44so we see
08:45no intention
08:48to block
08:49opening of the
08:50clusters
08:50but we see
08:51the good
08:54faith
08:54will
08:55to find
08:55a solution
08:56for these
08:56sensitive
08:57and complicated
08:58topics
08:58with Poland
09:00and our neighbors
09:01and with other
09:02member states
09:03as well
09:03but this one
09:05will be the
09:06most delicate
09:06Minister
09:07another concern
09:08in Brussels
09:08when it comes
09:09to the pace
09:10of EU-oriented
09:11reforms
09:11in Ukraine
09:12is Kiev's
09:13stance
09:13on corruption
09:14there is
09:15an ongoing
09:16investigation
09:16which also
09:17involves
09:18former chief
09:18of staff
09:18of the
09:19president
09:19of Ukraine
09:20how do
09:21ongoing
09:21corruption
09:21cases
09:22impact
09:23confidence
09:24in the EU
09:25member states
09:26both regarding
09:27the EU accession
09:28and regarding
09:28the currently
09:30unblocked
09:3190 billion
09:31euros
09:32loan
09:33for Ukraine
09:33First
09:34all these
09:35investigations
09:36are indications
09:37that our
09:38anti-corruption
09:39framework
09:40works
09:40works efficiently
09:42is ambitious
09:44is capable
09:45for investigation
09:46so this is
09:47a really good
09:48news
09:48so that
09:49second
09:51is that
09:51what we
09:52Ukraine
09:54is now
09:55living
09:56through the
09:56war
09:57and
09:58the dramatic
09:59change
10:00of its
10:00political
10:01culture
10:02something
10:03that
10:04was
10:04a
10:06problem
10:07for the
10:08accession
10:08of Ukraine
10:08in the
10:09past
10:09so 10
10:10years ago
10:1015
10:11years ago
10:11so corruption
10:12systemic
10:12corruption
10:13is now
10:14very
10:15dramatically
10:16and fast
10:16going
10:17into the
10:17past
10:18it's like
10:18this page
10:19is like
10:20literally
10:20like
10:20is changing
10:22so that
10:23is like
10:23so that's
10:24why
10:25for me
10:25this is
10:26something
10:27the healthiest
10:28thing
10:28that is
10:29happening
10:30indeed
10:31every
10:32corruption
10:32scandal
10:33still
10:33scandal
10:33so
10:34that's
10:35why
10:35I think
10:36there will
10:37be people
10:37who will
10:38treat this
10:38otherwise
10:39but for
10:40me
10:40this is
10:41very clear
10:41so this
10:42is exactly
10:42what
10:43the EU
10:44wants us
10:45to do
10:45to clear
10:46government
10:47to get rid
10:48of any
10:49corruptions
10:49to ensure
10:50that anti-corruption
10:51framework works
10:52and it works
10:53last year
10:54it was
10:54737
10:55cases
10:56that were
10:56opened
10:57by
10:57Naboo
10:58it was
10:59125
11:01indictments
11:01of
11:02prosecution
11:03office
11:03against
11:04more than
11:04200
11:05people
11:05and there
11:06were
11:0793
11:07sentences
11:09against
11:10130
11:11persons
11:11by
11:12high
11:12anti-corruption
11:12court of
11:13Ukraine
11:13this is
11:13about
11:14corruption
11:14cases
11:15that covered
11:16more than
11:1620 billion
11:17of losses
11:18to state
11:20so it means
11:20that it
11:21works
11:21so that
11:22this framework
11:22anti-corruption
11:23framework works
11:24and this
11:25framework
11:26was completed
11:27and start
11:28to be
11:28fully
11:29operational
11:29in 2023
11:30when war
11:31already
11:31was
11:32on the
11:33fullest
11:34scale
11:34and it
11:35was done
11:36by our
11:36current
11:37parliament
11:37so that's
11:38why
11:38I think
11:39that the
11:40pace of
11:41reform
11:41in Ukraine
11:41is incredible
11:42in incredibly
11:43difficult
11:44circumstances
11:45and we
11:45are doing
11:46we are not
11:47looking for
11:48any excuses
11:49with our
11:49partners
11:50we do
11:51our homework
11:51with
11:52like
11:52fullest
11:53accuracy
11:54possible
11:54thank you
11:55thank you
11:56you
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