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Tracks And Trails - Season 13 Episode 4 - Kildare
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00:03Today's walk is a day trip for me. I'm traveling an hour from Dublin by train to discover some of
00:08the hidden delights that County Kildare has to offer. I'm just off the train of Baila Aagliad
00:16and Baila Aagliad and today I am on a canal bank walk from a Thai towards Monster Evan and I'm
00:21very
00:21excited because my guest today is a man who's known very well this part of the world and all
00:26over Ireland of course for his fantastic music and he's going to teach me all about the rich history of
00:31Kildare.
01:04A Thai is a market town situated at the meeting of the River Barrow and the Grand Canal in southwest
01:10County Kildare. It dates back to the 12th century and was firstly an Anglo-Norman settlement before
01:16becoming an important stronghold in Ireland. Over the years it has seen a lot of different types of
01:21history from wars to creative history it's been a center for Ireland's oral and musical traditions
01:27so it's no coincidence that my guest today is one of Ireland's well-known musicians.
01:33Jack Lukeman known as Jack L was born and bred in this part of the world. He has since toured
01:38and
01:39traveled afar with his music and has always returned to County Kildare. Jack is taking me on a walk to
01:45discover some of the more hidden parts this county has to offer. Jack, how are you? Welcome to a Thai.
01:54Garamagalith. So excited to be here with you in a Thai. Well, welcome to the fair town of a Thai,
01:59welcome to the people's park given to a Thai in the 1800s by the Duke of Leinster. Lots more to
02:04see,
02:05beautiful scenery on the canal walk and so forth. Fantastic, well you're the man. Let's do it,
02:11let's do it. I hear you're going to do some singing for me I hear. It depends on how fast
02:17we're walking.
02:21We're starting our walk on a Thai and heading out into the countryside to walk along the Barrow
02:26Blueway. The walk takes us from a Thai along the watersides to end at Vicarstown,
02:31a Grand Canal grand total of around 12 kilometers.
02:37Jack, where are you from exactly in relation to here at the People's Park?
02:41Eh, well just outside of Thai on the Kilkenny Road, there's a place called Lockman's Garage,
02:46which is my great grandfather started and he was, he won the plowing championship somewhere in the
02:53early 1900s and he was a famous man with a horse and plow and that became him with steam engines
02:59and
02:59then my grandfather took that over and my father and his two brothers kept going and my brother still
03:06has it going to this day and it's still in the family name. So I'm a Thai through and through,
03:12but I just come from just outside of Thai.
03:22This is absolutely beautiful.
03:24Yes, this is the town hall and the square. It was built in 1730 and it was the moment where
03:31a Thai
03:31became from being a village. It became a town because of the the town hall, but now it's the Shackleton
03:37Museum, which is Ernest Shackleton, the great Antarctic explorer who did several expeditions to the
03:45Antarctic. He came from out the road in Kilkei and so he's one of the most, I suppose, world-known
03:52Thai people. So, and also, I mean, you've got lots of beautiful stuff around the town like the
03:56Maid of a Thai plaques. You've got Johnny Mars from the Smiths, his people came from the Thai,
04:00he's got a plaque over here. Manny from the Stone Roses. I'm lucky to have a plaque on Garret
04:05Lane over there, which I wrote a song about over by the castle. On the ground, you've got here this
04:09beautiful, it mimics the running of the Barrow and the shape of the Barrow. Coming from New Ross,
04:16St. Mullins, all the way down along, running up to Carlow and through Carlow. The Barrow is, of course,
04:24part of the Three Sisters, the Barrow of the Noor and the Shure, and running up Milford all the way
04:30along.
04:32Bestfield Lock, all locally famous Levittstown and, of course, to the town of a Thai and the Barrow
04:39line just over here. God, it's fantastic, isn't it? I love how it's such an enduring power, isn't it?
04:47Cutting through all the townlands and how the Goddess Barrow's, you know, energy endures here.
04:53The river has been here longer than anybody can remember, you know, before any of us were here.
04:56So it's just lovely to have all these ancient history and modern history all into one spot.
05:04The Queen of Kings here, huh? Yes, indeed, yeah. Isn't it a beautiful mural? Isn't it gorgeous?
05:15Just a few short steps and we're out into the countryside and onto the river Barrow.
05:21Tell me about walking. What does walking do for you?
05:24I've always found walking and just rambling and just going out into nature is a great way
05:30of stimulating that fountain of creativity. And there's been many songs over the years that have
05:36been spawned from that are little just kernels of ideas, you know, so that's what walking does for me.
05:45What's your favourite song you've ever written? Oh, Rooftop Lullabies is one of those songs that
05:51came to me just from nowhere. When you're writing a lot of songs, you kind of get into a flow
05:57state
05:58where songs just start coming to you and you're not overthinking it. And I find it very hard to write
06:05when I'm touring. You might get an idea, but it is something you need to sit down and kind of
06:10let the mind wander and let the creativity flow.
06:17So this is where the Barrow meets the Grand Canal. Where the Barrow and the Canal takes off over here,
06:22yeah. The Grand Canal navigation from Dublin to the River Shannon has many access points to and from
06:29rivers along the way. Here at the Horse Bridge, the Grand Canal joins the River Barrow, which is also the
06:36access point for us, for our canal walk. So this is the famous local place, local landmark,
06:44the Horse Bridge, where the horses who were dragging the barges and they would cross over. And as you can
06:49see, the wall is curved along here so that the rope could run along it. And they were able to
06:54go over
06:54here to the canal and continue up that way. Fantastic. So it's a famous landmark. Back in the day,
07:00people would come here in the hot weather and go swimming here. I'm sure health and safety doesn't
07:05allow that anymore, but it did. Were you ever brave enough to jump in? No, I was good at looking
07:10at
07:10people doing it, but my brother used to do it all right. Too much sense, huh? Too much sense. I
07:14was never
07:14a great swimmer, but it's a famous old spot. You might jump in yet? You never know. The day is
07:19young and
07:19the sun is out. So who knows?
07:29As you can see, we're approaching Rockfield Road. You have the old hospital over yonder and the old
07:36pauper's graveyard is over here. Hospital dating back the famine times. And you have this here, where
07:44you have the marks of the rope from the horses dragging the barges along and it ingrained into
07:52the actual stone, which shows you how much work must have went on that over time it actually was able
07:59to do what an angle grinder would do today, but just with rope that it was able to cut into
08:02the stone.
08:03Isn't that amazing? Quite stunning. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great mark of time.
08:11I love the canal because it's it's slow. It almost slows everything. It has a very kind of
08:15passive feel to it. It slows time down a bit.
08:24So how do you know when a song is finished? Well, as they say, a song is never finished. It's
08:30abandoned.
08:31You kind of have to, you have to know when something is cooked. I suppose it's like being a good
08:36chef, you know, and not to overcook something. And when it's just just fresh enough to take
08:42and record. That's that's that that only comes from doing it for years and knowing,
08:48I suppose, when something is cooked. But then when you take it on the road and you play it in
08:51front of
08:51an audience, you kind of go, why didn't I do this or why didn't I do that? But that's just
08:56the nature
08:57of it. I've but I have recorded albums with a kind of an audience in the room to try and
09:01bring more out of the songs in that kind of way. OK, but ultimately live and studio are just two
09:09very different things. And usually the first couple of takes of a song are as good as the 50th take
09:16in
09:16a studio just because it has a freshness to it, especially when musicians maybe are playing it
09:21for the first time. A lot of the great recordings are like that. If you look back through them,
09:26the Beatles would do a whole half an album in a day or a whole album in a day. And
09:30those songs have
09:31stood up for, you know, for all these years. So it makes you wonder, overthinking things can be a big
09:39problem when it comes to creativity.
10:05Kildare Sports Partnership have been working at making the walks around the county
10:08as accessible as possible. The trails are becoming more and more available to everyone.
10:15Jack, isn't it fantastic to see more and more places become more inclusivity conscious?
10:20Absolutely. And this area is, this is where my people come from and to see all this here is
10:25absolutely stunning. Look at this. Hey guys. How you doing? How are you? We'll, we'll have to,
10:35we'll have to get out on the bikes the next day. What do you think? How you doing?
10:39Wow. That's so cool. It's great, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. It's great to see people
10:43out and about and taking in all this fresh air and by the beautiful and relaxing canal. It's so
10:50important. So important for all of our mental health wellbeing, but it's especially exciting for you
10:55because you have a tie to this place, don't you? Yes, just across the road here is where my grandfather
11:02comes from and my great uncle lived there for years, the Kyos. So just across the road here. So it's,
11:09it's fast. I know this was pure country back in that time. So to see it rejuvenated and with cafes
11:15around here and people using this walkway, which didn't really exist, uh, properly like this. So
11:21it's, uh, fascinating and, uh, really heartwarming, I have to say to see it, uh, being used and enjoyed.
11:28Yes.
11:31We're going towards Vicarstown now, which is the end of our walk today. And I can't believe the amount of
11:37history and stuff there is to learn here and us being so close to Dublin. It was a real eye
11:42-opener for me,
11:42but I have to ask you, what has been your highlight of the day? Well, it's been a trip down
11:47memory lane
11:48for me from the park in the Thai, uh, to walking along the canal where, where my mother's side of
11:53the family, the Kyos come from seeing all that. So it's been, it's been an assortment of things,
11:57but it's just been lovely to, to be able to show you around and show you all these beautiful places.
12:01Have you had a favorite place yourself or? Oh, thanks. Well, I really enjoyed seeing people of all
12:07different kinds of abilities out on the blue way. I thought that was so special. It's great to see people
12:11out
12:11enjoying Ireland and all she has to offer. And, uh, yeah, I think that you're going to be seeing
12:17an awful lot more of me here now, I think, Jack. You're welcome any time. You can see all the
12:21beautiful things we have to offer down here. So you're welcome any time. Oh, that's an offer
12:25I'm going to take you up on. Absolutely.
12:34Today I am in Kildare, an area that is famous, of course, for its luscious green plains,
12:39and for all of the history that goes with that. And I'm looking forward to hearing those stories
12:43from local voice. County Kildare has a long history of industry and barley crop farming that goes back
12:51generations. Set amid luscious farming and arable landscapes, as well as various water routes,
12:58Kildare offers plenty of walking, hiking and trekking opportunities. County Kildare is home to
13:04Monaster Evan and to the Grand Canal, which at one time was a bustling industrial and passenger
13:09transport route and is now used for leisure purposes. Celine Byrne is a soprano from Kildare.
13:15She's recognized both nationally and internationally as one of opera's great stars and has performed in
13:21all of the major opera houses around the world. She was born, grew up in and still lives in County
13:28Kildare and is the perfect guest to show me around. Celine Byrne, how are you? I'm good.
13:36So good to see you and welcome to Kildare, my home county. I know, I've been dying now to get
13:40here
13:40because obviously so famous, the home of St. Bridget, the plains of Kildare, we'll have loved to talk
13:45about today. And the walkway here, it's brilliant. Yeah, this is new. Yeah, it's brilliant. Okay,
13:49well we better get cracking. Cool.
13:55Today's trail starts at Monaster Evan and runs alongside the Grand Canal to finish at Robertstown.
14:00The total route is 24 kilometres and takes around four hours. We're doing most of it on foot,
14:06but we're taking the final section by barrage.
14:11So we are in your home turf, your home county. Yeah, yeah, in Kildare. Monaster Evan, yeah,
14:16it's lovely. You know, it was formed in the 15th century by St. Evan and the monastery was then,
14:22you know where Moor Abbey is? Yeah. Yeah, so that was, um, that was given to the Moor family. Actually,
14:28Moor Street in Dublin is called after the Moor family. Oh, I didn't realise that. John McCormack,
14:33Count John McCormack. Of course, a legend. Lived in Moor Abbey and I've done a few concerts there,
14:37so I know the place well. The legendary John McCormack, who was the quintessential sound,
14:42I suppose. Absolutely, like the gramophone. Yeah, he was, all his recordings on gramophone and everything.
14:48So two great singers from Kildare, huh? That's it. Go on, you good thing. There you go, there you go.
15:01Oh, the kayakers are coming, look. I know, it's great. It is actually, it's so lovely to see the
15:05canal and youth like this, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Have you ever kayaked? I have, actually. That should
15:11be our next date now. Really? Go for a bit of a kayak, yeah. No, I don't think so. I'd
15:15rather get in
15:15there now and swim. Yeah, well, listen, either or. So definitely a different perspective from what we're
15:20getting there in the kayak, isn't it? See the wheel on the top, like, years ago, that would have been
15:24a drawbridge
15:24and a pulley, erm, with a pulley system, yeah. Yeah. God, it is just so peaceful to be walking by
15:44the
15:44canal, isn't it? Oh, I love it. It's so nice. What I didn't realise before I came here, and I
15:49was doing a
15:49little bit of reading, is that actually there's a really strong history of distilling and whiskey
15:55making in here. I suppose it's no wonder because the land is so good. Well, when we passed by here,
16:00the distillery here, up here, and it's like 200 years ago, that would have been a storehouse for
16:06barley and wheat, and a lot of barges came from Dublin. Yeah. Especially from the Guinness storehouse
16:12and stuff all the way to Shannon. Mm-hmm. And when we get to Robertstown, there you go,
16:17my granddad used to work on the barges. It's funny, isn't it? Like, we forget the function
16:24of the canals, really, because, you know, they're kind of, maybe not as important once the trains
16:29came into play in Dublin, but they were so integral to people. Yeah, because they brought a lot of people,
16:33yeah. People moving around, and goods moving around, and to how Ireland worked, you know, in the 18th
16:39century. He's coming after us. I love the way that this is now, this new blue way is actually
16:47kind of giving us a chance to actually go back in time, so as to speak. But also, you know,
16:53I think
16:53it's brilliant that we can go on the canal again. And I think for the blue way to walk on
16:57the canal
16:57and cycle and, you know, go back to that kind of way of living is, it's nice, because people are
17:03getting out more, which is brilliant. Like, I lost weight, and I might walk more and everything like that.
17:07Well, it's definitely a new perspective on the canals, isn't it? Aye.
17:21I'm getting near at home now. Oh, are you? Well, there's a lot of action going on here,
17:25I think. Yeah, it's double locks, so it's not that many, there's not that many double locks on the
17:29canal. Okay, so explain that to me. So you have a system here where normally one lock opens,
17:35and it's just basically a double lock, so the two locks are opening to let the boat go up.
17:41I understand, okay. Because the water level has to rise for the boat to go up.
17:44Okay, and there's a steep drop, so you have to do it in inclines.
17:48Here, we sit down on the swing beam. Okay. And have a look.
17:57We're sitting on a lock, which you say is a big pastime of yours. Yeah, well, this is lock 23.
18:04My favourite lock is lock 3, which is in this, on the canal. And during Covid, I used to walk
18:11a lot and
18:12cycle a lot at the canal. And actually, when my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, the first thing
18:19I did was get on my bike, cycle in and sit on the lock. And I just liked the peaceful,
18:26just element
18:28of it. And when I was growing up, my dad used to bring us to the lock and used to
18:32sit us on the swing
18:33beam and get us an owl out to roach. And when my kids were smaller, we'd get like a takeaway
18:40or something
18:40like that. And I'd bring them to the canal. And I'd put them up on the swing beam and they'd
18:45have a
18:45little picnic. And yeah, so it brings back a lot of memories. Nostalgic. That's lovely. That's a lovely
18:51memory to have of your dad and your kids. Yeah, it's nice. Being outdoors is a great way of processing
18:58emotions, but you're a musician. Yeah. So you kind of have also another way of processing emotions.
19:04Yeah, I mean, for my singing, my art form, it's a great way of expression. So I
19:10love the fact that I love my job. I love what I do. I've always loved the stage. I've always
19:15loved
19:15performing. I never thought it would be a career. Actually, it was something that was kind of,
19:19I thought that would never happen because I thought growing up because I'd had no idea of classical
19:25music. I thought the only way to be on stage was to be a West End star or something like
19:29that. And
19:29you have to be able to sing, dance and act. And I can't dance. Two left feet.
19:33And so I think for me, singing has always been an escapism. I think it was a hobby to develop
19:40into
19:40a career because I studied music, went on to my master's. Then I did competitions, winning the
19:46Maria Callas in 2008 international sing competition. And then from there, that gave me a platform to be
19:51invited to different, different concerts. And, and then, yeah, one thing led to another. And I love what I do.
19:59In Ireland now, we all love to sing a few songs, but that's usually in, you know, when you're in
20:04company or whatever, I mean, what you're doing is totally different from that. And I don't think
20:08a lot of people, you know, know, maybe first of all, the work, uh, and, and dedication that goes
20:14into that, but also work hard. Yeah. Yeah. But also as well, you're saying that like in Ireland and
20:19you go out and then you go and sing a song. Like I remember when I was training and everything
20:22and my
20:22dad said like, Oh, she's studying voice and all of that, you know, and then I'd go up to the
20:26pub and he'd say,
20:27sing a song. They're witty. Cause my nickname is witty. And I'd be like, what can I sing dad?
20:31And he goes, ah, whatever you want. So I'd sing. Oh, no, no, no, real song. A real song.
20:38So none of that. Well, when he says a real song, yeah. Oh, he just wanted, you know,
20:44an Irish song or a bit of Danny boy. He loved the old Danny boy. Oh, Danny boy, the pipes,
20:52the pipes are calling
20:55from glen to glen and down the mountain side. The summer's gone and all the flowers are dying.
21:11Tis you, tis you must go and I must find.
21:24Now we're heading to Roberts town and I know you have a big tie to the place, but what would
21:28you think
21:29about getting another little perspective on this walk and heading on this barge? What do you think?
21:33I think that'd be great. Cause I don't like walking. Hi, how are you? Welcome aboard.
21:44So tell me about your connection with Roberts town and of course, the barges and when my grand,
21:50my great grandfather and great grandmother, Pat and Rose Byrne were originally from Roberts town.
21:58William, their house is the first house, the little cottage beside the school that's still there.
22:03And my grandfather, William, their son was one of 10 children who was born in that house.
22:10And as he grew up along with his siblings, they worked in the local hotel and he worked there,
22:16but he also worked on the barges. So he unloaded barley, rye, wheat. He worked for a Guinness storehouse.
22:21So, and then he also worked on a farm where my grandmother also worked and they met on the farm.
22:30And then they moved to the Heavey farm in Cara, subsequently had their family of 11 children,
22:36one of which was my father. And then we grew up on that land and we built all on that
22:41land as well.
22:42So it all rooted from Roberts town. Okay. And we're nearly there.
22:46You're a true born Kildare woman.
22:48Aye, the woman out of the bog, but you can't take the bog out of the woman.
22:51Well, there you go. You're equal parts bog and opera. Is that fair to say?
22:54Yeah. Here I am, look, on a barge in Kildare, on my way to Roberts town.
23:00And last week I was on a boat on the sea in Cusadasi.
23:05And I'm just as happy here as I was last week. And this is just beautiful.
23:13Celine, we're pulling into your ancestral home. So I want to know what was your highlight from today's walk?
23:19I loved everything, to be fair. I loved everything. I love the chats. I love meeting you. I love chatting
23:24with you.
23:25But if I was forced to pick something, I think it would be when we were at the double lock.
23:31I really enjoyed that at lock 23. It was just really nice, very nostalgic. And yeah, I enjoyed that. Thank
23:40you so much.
23:40Oh, well, thank you so much. And you've stolen my favourite thing, because my favourite thing was listening to you
23:44sing Danny Boy.
23:44That was gorgeous. I really, I'll be, I'll be singing that in my head now for the rest of the
23:48week.
23:48Thank you for a great day.
23:50Thank you. Thank you for a great day.
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