- 1 week ago
The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 17
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00...word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
00:02Good evening, Rachel. We learned during your hour that Donald Trump is in retreat,
00:07especially with that news about Bovino being out. But I was really struck in your interview
00:12with Senator Klobuchar that the White House chief of staff texted her, contacted her earlier today
00:18to tell her what was coming. You add that to Donald Trump's social media post saying he's
00:24now having good phone calls with the governor and the mayor. And that's Donald Trump telling you
00:30he knows this is hurting him. That's right. This is a political fight. They want what they're doing
00:38to be outside of politics. They want what they're doing to be just physical force and intimidation
00:44and menace and weapons and violence, right? That's it. But this is still a country where there is a
00:50democracy and the political winds blowing against them have now blown them down. Not by violence,
00:56not by civil war, not by some sort of meeting guns with guns confrontation, but rather by politically,
01:04small d democratically, peacefully standing up to them. And they just got wiped out by this thing.
01:09They did the wrong thing in a way that activated too many different types of political democratic
01:15force against them. And now they've just crumbled. And, you know, let this be the first of many,
01:21honestly, if they're going to keep trying stuff like this.
01:23Rachel, in Minnesota, as you know, they don't call them district attorneys. They call them county
01:28attorneys. And we have our first guest tonight, county attorney Mary Moriarty, who has jurisdiction
01:35over murder cases in Minneapolis. She joined us last week and she said last week that she is going to
01:42be
01:43conducting investigations of these killings. And she believes that there is still a definite
01:50ability for the state of Minnesota, the county to actually bring charges in these cases, if that's
01:56what the evidence warrants when they examine it. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the federal government
02:01is doing their best to try to prevent the state crime of murder from being charged here or any related
02:09crimes to these, any crimes that may pertain to these killings. But they don't have the final word
02:14on that. The states do. If they want to charge it, they can. And if they feel like they can
02:18charge it,
02:19they can. That's going to be a fascinating conversation, Lawrence. Yeah. And Donald Trump can
02:23pardon every federal agent that he wants to and probably will pardon the entire ICE staff.
02:30But that's just for federal prosecutions. That does not protect them from a state prosecution
02:34in Minnesota. So we're going to get right to that. That's right. Good. Good. Good on you,
02:39Lawrence. See you soon. Thanks, Richard. Thank you. Well, Donald Trump is running scared tonight
02:46because we are all witnesses now. Donald Trump is posting on social media today and tonight that he had
02:53a good phone call with the governor of Minnesota, who Donald Trump has been demonizing until today.
03:01And he's not demonizing him anymore because we are all witnesses now.
03:06Tonight, Donald Trump posted that he had a good phone call with the mayor of Minneapolis,
03:10who Donald Trump has been calling a communist and attacking in the most unhinged Trumpian ways.
03:15But Donald Trump is making conciliatory public statements tonight about wanting to cooperate
03:20now with the governor of Minnesota and wanting to cooperate now with the mayor of Minneapolis because
03:28Donald Trump is running scared tonight. Donald Trump is in retreat tonight. And Donald Trump is running
03:35scared because we are all witnesses now. When we see the video, we become eyewitnesses. And if we watch
03:44all of the videos of what Donald Trump and his Border Patrol agents did to Alex Preddy,
03:50we then become better eyewitnesses than the people who would be allowed to testify at a murder trial
03:58as eyewitnesses because they were there on the scene. Some of those eyewitnesses were recording
04:04video at the same time, which actually distracts from what they can take in as eyewitnesses in that
04:10moment because they are also camera operators as well as eyewitnesses. Contrary to popular opinion
04:16and Hollywood portrayals, eyewitness testimony is not as reliable as factual circumstantial
04:23evidence is like ballistics reports and autopsies, which are often the most solid evidence in any murder
04:30case. Professor Elizabeth Loftus' groundbreaking work on eyewitness testimony, including the books she
04:37written about eyewitness testimony, have shown all of the human weaknesses that come with standard
04:43eyewitness testimony. An eyewitness might honestly believe someone was shot in the back and another
04:49eyewitness might not be so sure. But if the autopsy shows an entrance wound in the back, then that is
04:56not just evidence. That is proof beyond a reasonable doubt of being shot in the back. And the autopsy is
05:03technically circumstantial evidence, but it's better evidence often than eyewitness testimony.
05:08Each eyewitness only has their individual angle on what they can see. But when we collect multiple
05:15videos of the same shooting of Alex Preddy, and we watch all of those videos, we become the best
05:23eyewitnesses to that shooting. We are all witnesses now. And eyewitnesses have a right to believe what they
05:32see. Eyewitnesses have a right to reach conclusions about what they see. And since we are all now
05:38eyewitnesses to two of Donald Trump's agents he sent to Minnesota firing 10 shots into a man face down on
05:45the pavement and killing that man in a matter of seconds, we can all look at the video and conclude
05:50beyond a reasonable doubt that every shot fired after the first shot is murder, not negligent homicide.
05:58That might be what the first shot is, because an analysis of the videos show that an agent in a
06:05gray jacket removed a handgun from Alex Preddy's right hip and rushed away with that handgun. And
06:10immediately after he removed that handgun and stepped away, the first shot was fired into Alex
06:17Preddy's back or the back of his head. And that first shot could have been because the man in the
06:22gray
06:22jacket said there's a gun. But the gun was already removed when that first shot was fired.
06:29So that first shot could have been a mistake within that space of interaction. And that shot fired less
06:38than three feet away from Alex Preddy very, very likely killed him, the autopsy will tell us.
06:43But what happens next on the video, as you will see in a moment, is that all of the agents,
06:49all of them, upon hearing that first shot, start backing away from the now lifeless body. They're walking
06:58backwards away from the body. And as they walk backwards away from the body, they fully reveal
07:07and are looking at a motionless body lying face down in front of them on the pavement with nothing else
07:15around that body. And they can all see absolutely no threat posed to anyone by that body, which is
07:24probably a dead body at that point. And that is when two and only two of those agents decide to
07:33continue
07:33to pump bullets into Alex Preddy's body. And that decision is murder. It is a decision, not a reflex.
07:42Each shot fired by law enforcement officer has to be a decision, not a reflex. Law enforcement officers
07:50are supposed to be trained to assess the situation after each shot fired to determine if another shot
07:58needs to be fired. There are several agents positioned around Alex Preddy's body, and most of
08:06them decide there is absolutely no reason to fire a gun while those other two agents are firing their
08:15guns. And the agents who didn't fire their guns, who knew there was absolutely no threat to their
08:21lives or anyone else's, those agents were right. And the killers of Alex Preddy were wrong.
08:26And that is what the facts before us right now prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
08:32We're going to show you now the 24-second video, a disturbing video shot from the angle that shows
08:39that the shots are still being fired as the officers have stepped backward, far into a safety zone.
08:50It is correct to step backward. That's where the safety is. And they have stepped backward
08:56into the safety zone, away from that man lying face down on the pavement. And two of them decide
09:03it's time to shoot him several more times.
09:10Here is that video.
09:14They're doing too much, man. And they keep pushing people, you know?
09:17Yeah.
09:41The next video you're about to see and take the time if you care to, what
09:47go online and watch these videos again yourself. We're only showing them once. They go by in
09:51seconds. They're very quick. The action's very quick. You might want to watch it more than once
09:55to understand what you're seeing or see the New York Times analysis of the videos that's available
10:00online. But this next video shows Alex Preddy trying to be helpful, not to Donald Trump's
10:07federal agents, but to the people in the area. Cars trying to pass through. Alex Preddy is
10:12directing traffic to those cars, trying to help out those motorists. And then Alex Preddy tries to
10:18be helpful to a woman with an orange backpack who is assaulted by Donald Trump's Border Patrol agents.
10:26That agent committed the crime of assault and battery. The agent you will see committing the
10:31crime of assault and battery against that woman, because that's what it is beyond a reasonable doubt
10:36on that video. That is assault and battery. That agent is one of the killers of Alex Preddy.
10:43Keep that in mind as you watch this video. It begins with the crime of assault and battery
10:49committed by an agent who then goes on to commit murder. Alex Preddy, you will see, commits no crime.
10:57Alex Preddy tries to help the woman who has been assaulted. And then Alex Preddy gets assaulted.
11:05And Alex Preddy and the woman both fall to the ground. And that woman is alive today only
11:13because, as you will see on this video, when she's on the ground being assaulted by Donald Trump's
11:20Border Patrol agents, she does everything she possibly can to crawl away from the agent who
11:27is assaulting her and trying to hold her in place. And because she was successful in crawling as far
11:33away as she did from Alex Preddy and from that agent, she is alive tonight.
11:43Those 10 bullets would have been used to probably murder her too. Those nine bullets fired at Alex
11:54Preddy after the first shot had probably already killed him. Those nine bullets would have found her
12:01in that kind of shooting spree if she hadn't done everything she possibly could to get away from
12:07Donald Trump's federal agents who's trying to hold her in place.
12:13So watch Alex Preddy directing traffic, trying to be helpful. Watch the woman with the orange backpack get
12:19assaulted, illegally assaulted by that agent. Watch her fall to the ground. Watch Alex Preddy fall to
12:26the ground. This will only go, this will go by in seconds, that action. It's very disturbing to watch.
12:34Here is that video.
12:42Go!
12:52What the f*** is wrong with you?
13:11What the f*** is wrong with you?
13:16Honestly!
13:32What the f*** did you just do?
13:35What the f*** did you just do?
13:39What the f***?
13:41What the f***?
13:43Oh my God!
13:47Oh my God!
13:49Oh my God!
13:51Oh my God!
13:53Oh my God!
13:53Oh my God!
13:55What the f*** did you just do?
13:58What the f*** did you just do?
14:00What the f*** did you just do?
14:05Somebody call the ambulance! Somebody call the ambulance! Somebody needs to call the ambulance!
14:12Somebody call 911! Somebody call 911! I can't believe they just did that! Holy
14:18s**t! Holy s**t! Just get... Come on, come on! Oh my God you s**t people man! You're killing us! Why
14:36would you do that?
14:41oh my god oh my god i can't believe i'm seeing this i can't believe i'm seeing this
14:47come on come on come on come here come on come here
15:10that blurring was inserted in the video by the network to block the actual sight of alex
15:18pretty's body lying on the pavement there and when you watch that video in the aftermath of the
15:25murder the question becomes why didn't they kill them all why didn't they kill them all
15:32there were other brave people on that street who continued to record on video what those agents had
15:42done and what they were doing you can see a woman in that video getting up very close very close
15:48to
15:49where the shooting occurred after the shooting why didn't they kill her alex pretty didn't do anything
15:56more than what she was doing she instead those agents after they've killed someone after that
16:03they've cooled down enough not to kill everyone in sight after they've killed one that's what it takes
16:11to get them to decide oh this is not a situation in which we have to kill anyone including this
16:18woman
16:18who's coming up very close to us now with her camera and in the end you see her bending over
16:23in agony at
16:24what she has witnessed why wasn't she killed if it was legitimate to kill alex pretty
16:31remember the presumption of innocence is only a theory a legal theory it is a legal theory
16:38designed to structure criminal prosecutions the structure of a criminal prosecution is based
16:46on that theory of presumption of innocence that's the way the process is constructed and that for
16:53example is why there's no requirement in american law that the defendant must testify in other
16:58countries defendants do have to testify but not here because of the presumption of innocence which
17:04binds absolutely no one no one other than a jury the only people who are charged with observing the
17:12presumption of innocence at the outset of a criminal trial are the jury the prosecutor doesn't presume
17:20innocence that's why the prosecutor is there the prosecutor presumes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt
17:27in that room and makes that case in that room no one in the general public is required to presume
17:34innocence of criminal defendants or potential criminal defendants no one in the news media is required
17:39by any judicial principle to presume innocence but the news media cowered by the phrase presumption of
17:45innocence of innocence and failing to comprehend it ends up often softening language and coverage of what we can
17:52all see because we are all witnesses now donald trump's dangerously buffoonish fbi director who was chosen as an
18:03insult to the fbi said this you do not get to attack law enforcement officials in this country without any
18:12repercussions you do not get to do that in minnesota la or anywhere else oh yes you do these people
18:21got
18:22to do that and they got to do that because they were doing it for donald trump they were attacking
18:28police office for donald trump and they did it without any repercussions because they did it for
18:35donald trump and donald trump pardoned every single one of them because they attacked police officers and
18:42tried to beat them to death for donald trump trumpism means believing that if you don't support donald trump
18:50the united states constitution does not support you you have no rights granted under the constitution if
18:56you don't support donald trump rights are granted by donald trump to trump supporters that is trumpism
19:03as perfectly articulated just then by his buffoonish fbi director donald trump is removing
19:11greg bovino as the commander of his invasion forces in minneapolis and replacing him with
19:17who could it be tom holman who was recorded on an fbi video accepting fifty thousand dollars in cash during
19:26the last trump presidential campaign from fbi undercover agents donald trump's justice department
19:34closed down that investigation of donald trump's friend tom holman but that investigation can be
19:40reopened three years from now when a democrat is president and we will eventually see that video
19:47of tom holman accepting the fifty thousand dollars from the fbi undercover agents alex preddy
19:55was an intensive care unit nurse at a veterans of uh hospital donald trump of course doesn't care
20:03about veterans at all but he pretends to as a politician and as a campaigner alex preddy
20:07devoted his life to veterans devoted his life to saving their lives and he did
20:14i for one didn't understand that nurses are the greatest heroes who walk among us until i was
20:20hospitalized for the first time in 2014 after being injured in the backseat of a taxi cab in a
20:25head-on collision that's when i became for the first time fully dependent on nurses for months i was in
20:31awe
20:32of their quiet competence and heroism and devotion i loved my nurses and still do we can never thank our
20:39nurses enough and the one thing i know about alex preddy's life is that he was never thanked enough
20:45no matter how hard people tried to thank him because we the patients can never find the words big enough
20:52to express our gratitude and love to our nurses alex preddy's last words were words he said thousands
21:01upon thousands of times in his life as a nurse and his work as a nurse alex preddy's last words
21:10were
21:11are you okay that's what he asked the one the woman with the orange backpack who he was trying to
21:18help he was
21:19trying to protect are you okay that's what he was worried about not himself are you okay
21:28jessica hauser posted this on social media i was alex preddy's final nursing student he was my friend
21:35and my nursing mentor for the past four months i stood shoulder to shoulder with him during my capstone
21:42preceptorship at the minneapolis va hospital there he trained me to care for the sickest of the sick
21:49as an icu nurse he taught me how to care for arterial and central lines the intricacies of managing multiple
21:56ivs filled with life-saving solutions and how to watch over every heartbeat every breath
22:03and every flicker of life ready to act the moment they wavered techniques intended to heal
22:13alex carried patience compassion and calm as a steady light within him even at the very end that
22:20light was there i recognized his familiar stillness and signature calm composure shining through during
22:26those unbearable final moments captured on camera it does not surprise me that his final words were are
22:33you okay caring for people was at the core of who he was he was incapable of causing harm he
22:42lived a life
22:42of healing and he lived it well i am a better nurse because of the wisdom and skills he instilled
22:48in me
22:49i carry his light with me into every room letting it guide and steady my hands as i heal and
22:56care for
22:56those in need take one step no matter how small to help heal our world through these acts carry his
23:06light forward in his name let his legacy continue to heal the nation's largest union of registered nurses
23:17nurses issued a statement saying that they quote seek justice for the murder by federal immigration
23:24agents of fellow registered nurse alex pretty we nurses are forever patient advocates and that means we
23:33will fight to protect you at the bedside and we will fight to protect you in the streets just as
23:38alex was
23:39doing when he was executed in cold blood by border patrol imagine being the parents of a 37 year old
23:48life
23:48life-saving nurse in perfect health imagine being the parents of any 37 year old to discover on saturday
23:55morning that your 37 year old son who woke up in perfect health in minneapolis is now dead dead from
24:02any cause a car
24:03accident maybe imagine that i for one cannot imagine how parents can ever manage to cope with the grief
24:10of the death of their child at any age we parents are supposed to go first not our children michael
24:17and
24:17susan preddy were hit with that devastating knee-buckling grief and then they were hit with donald trump's
24:25lies and donald trump's homeland security secretary's even worse lies about their son and then they were
24:34hit on sunday morning with more lies on tv from the always lying greg bovino the leader of donald trump's
24:41invasion forces in minnesota and even donald trump's treasury secretary of all people could not resist
24:48lying about michael and susan preddy's son on sunday morning tv imagine with all they had to bear
24:55alex preddy's parents had to compose and put out a written statement i would not be able to compose
25:02a single sentence under those circumstances but through it all through the pain the grief the unrelenting
25:10agony the weight of all of that michael and susan preddy composed themselves enough
25:20to say this we are heartbroken but also very angry alex was a kind-hearted soul who cared deeply for
25:29his
25:29family and friends and also the american veterans whom he cared for
25:36as an icu nurse at the minneapolis va hospital alex wanted to make a difference in this world
25:41unfortunately he will not be with us to see his impact i do not throw around the hero term lightly
25:48however his last thought and act was to protect a woman these sickening lies told about our son by
25:55the administration are reprehensible and disgusting alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by trump's
26:03murdering murdering and cowardly ice thugs he has his phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is
26:10raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ice just pushed down all while being pepper sprayed
26:19please get the truth out about our son he was a good man thank you
26:29hennepin county attorney mary moriarty who has prosecutorial jurisdiction over murder cases
26:35in minneapolis will join us next
26:41a trump justice spartan lawyer told a federal judge in minneapolis today this whole event rose out of a
26:47federal immigration matter was conducted by federal officers doing their federal duty and the aftermath
26:53whatever happened is a federal matter joining us now is hennepin county attorney mary moriarty who has
27:02jurisdiction over homicide investigations in minneapolis uh are you conducting a homicide investigation
27:08of the killing of alex preddy yes um we are doing that in conjunction with the bureau of criminal
27:15apprehension can i say though before that i i saw the preddy statement and our victim witness
27:22people were going to reach out to the parents and i asked them to convey that i would make every
27:28effort on every interview i did to talk about who michael or alex preddy really was and not let the
27:33lies
27:33about him go uh on challenge so thank you so much for talking about who he really was
27:40well uh in a situation like this in an investigation like this to what extent is the is the case
27:48informed
27:49by who alex preddy actually is how relevant is his behavior in life leading up to this moment
27:57well most of the investigation is about what actually happened there um i think if his motivations were
28:03challenged or we had to look into why he was there um who he was might make more of a
28:09difference there
28:10but we're pretty focused on what happened there at the scene what he did uh what the ice agents did
28:16and we you know some of the videos you've showed we've got those and many many more we've synced
28:21them into you know so you can see every angle of it and we've watched those many many many times
28:27we're also interviewing witnesses um and just trying to gather all of the information that we can so we
28:34have a full picture now as you know uh not only do we have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
28:40that an
28:41agent or agent shot and killed him we have to be able to disprove a defense that law enforcement
28:47has that uh what they did was not objectively reasonable and then you add on to this the
28:54idea that if we do charge they are going to try to remove it to federal court there are some
28:59different
29:00challenges here than you would see in ordinary prosecutions of homicide cases you told us last week
29:07uh that if it does if a case like this is removed to federal court you the local prosecutors would
29:13still be the prosecutors on the case yes uh which is very unusual um so we would expect if we
29:22did
29:22charge that they would attempt to remove the case to federal court uh we would uh challenge that but
29:29ultimately we don't really have a choice in that but if it did go to federal court we would still
29:34be
29:34the prosecutors it would not be the u.s attorney's office and most importantly probably state law
29:39still applies so if somebody were to be convicted in federal court uh on our case uh trump could not
29:47pardon that person and uh as you go forward uh this is this the same approach you're taking uh in
29:56the
29:57renee good case yes unfortunately uh we've had to take that approach uh in in both of those cases
30:05but also the third shooting uh where a man was shot in the leg last week we are also investigating
30:11that uh in conjunction with the bca so you're in complete disagreement with the uh trump defense uh
30:18justice department lawyer who said in federal court today that the aftermath whatever happened is a
30:24federal matter not at all uh people two people that were residents in our community were shot and
30:31killed it does not matter who those people work for they were shot and killed in hennepin county
30:37we have jurisdiction over this now the federal government could have jurisdiction over it as well
30:42but that does not preclude us from proceeding with a case should we think that that's appropriate
30:48and you need only look at the uh melissa hortman assassination where we do have joint um or
30:55dual prosecutions going forward the feds are going first and we're waiting patiently until they finish
31:01with him and then we'll go forward with our prosecution that was not a law enforcement
31:06agent but that is certainly how it should work hennepin county prosecutor mary moriarty thank you very
31:13much for joining us tonight of course thank you and coming up we'll be joined by two law enforcement
31:20experts to consider just how reasonable it was was it a reasonable practice to fire those shots
31:27at alex preddy that's next
31:33we just heard hennepin county prosecutor mary moriarty say that the question she will be
31:37focused on in her homicide investigation of the killing of alex preddy is whether there was
31:43any reasonable justification for law enforcement to fire 10 shots at him and joining us now to
31:50consider that question are mark claxton director of the black law enforcement alliance and a retired
31:55nypd detective also with us kirk burkhalter professor of law at new york law school where he is the
32:01director of the 21st century policing project he is also a retired nypd detective uh mark claxton
32:08what do you see when you put all these videos together what i see are several uh violations of
32:16doj's own policies uh multiplied exponentially and i think uh along with the use of force
32:24policies doj uh has adopted which is kind of the national standard imminent uh threat of serious
32:32physical harm or death to yourself or others there was a violation of also their their de-escalation
32:41requirement uh along with the affirmative duty to intervene which deals specifically with intervening
32:50on your partner's misconduct or some uh conduct on the street there uh you can directly intervene you're
32:57required to directly intervene i didn't see any intervention uh to attempt to to de-escalate
33:04or to uh uh uh eliminate this threat that was obviously posed by the ice or border patrol agents
33:13themselves and then also affirmative duty to render aid i didn't see and i don't know if if if you
33:19have
33:20seen any video about this but i haven't seen any uh rendering of aid immediately following the shooting
33:25what i saw was some retreat by these quote-unquote professional law enforcement individuals so there
33:31are several different layers of policy violations along with the atrocity of this enforcement operation
33:40kirk burkhalter what what do you see in the videos what jumps out uh to me
33:46is the ramifications of a uh law enforcement officers who are not trained for the mission
33:54that uh they were asked to do the tactics are appear to be poor uh this is a classic example
34:02of
34:02contagious fire they are gassing themselves when they're deploying tear gas and they are as you
34:09mentioned in your opening um committing assaults if law enforcement if you put your hands
34:16on someone you push them down uh that may be necessary force for arrest but if there's no arrest then
34:24that's a crime so for me the majority of this leads back to as far as the officers are concerned
34:31these
34:31agents uh not trained for this mission whatsoever it's just taking a group of folks and throwing them
34:40out there and asking them to enforce the law this is the result i'm so glad you mentioned uh the
34:46contagious fire phenomenon because that that was a point that i saw and and wanted to include in our
34:51analysis and and mark that's the phenomenon we've seen it uh for for as long as we've been studying
34:56these cases that one officer in a group fires and that creates a contagion effect with someone else
35:03firing thinking uh not not knowing where the threat was coming from necessarily there's a lot of
35:08reasons for it but that that multiple uh shot situation from multiple shooters is always a
35:15fascinating thing to see especially when most of the officers who have exactly the same opportunity
35:21see no reason to fire their weapons yeah and that's it that's important to point out and what it shows
35:27is that a professional law enforcement person understands quite clearly that each individual officer or agent
35:35is responsible for each trigger pull or discharge of that weapon they have to make individual assessments
35:42about what is an imminent threat of serious physical harm or death to themselves and they have to make those
35:49decisions not part of group think because that's when you get into these contagious situations but they have
35:57to respond based on their own individual assessments uh not necessarily influenced by their partners so you have
36:05that situation and you also have this other element of of officer created jeopardy that oftentimes comes into play in
36:13these situations where it is the law enforcement professional who is initiating the actions that lead to a
36:21situation where there is a a fatal confrontation and then they come back to say well we were put in
36:27a position
36:27where there was an imminent threat to ourselves yeah the first shooting of this kind that i ever studied
36:34uh a shooting in boston in 1975 was one officers started firing because the other officer started firing for
36:40for exactly that reason uh kirk as a lawyer what do you see uh in terms of this case as
36:46a homicide
36:46investigation a homicide is is a legally neutral word it just means a human being killed a human being
36:52uh sometimes justified sometimes not but what do you see here as a lawyer in this case well it will
36:59turn
36:59on reasonableness the uh agents involved whether they can articulate that their use of force was reasonable
37:08based on their experiences in the light of all circumstances i will tell you this is a quite a hill
37:15for them to climb
37:16we have video of the gun being removed prior to uh the shots were being fired did the officer that
37:25removed the weapon uh call out to the other officers that he had removed the weapon um this man was
37:32on the
37:33ground and multiple multiple officers were trying to subdue him was it necessary to shoot him we heard these
37:42reports that he brandished a weapon never brandished a weapon it's going to be difficult but that
37:47reasonableness right that's what law enforcement officers must articulate when explaining the use of
37:53force in the face of criminal charges kirk burkhalter and mark claxton thank you both very much for
38:00joining us tonight you're quite welcome and coming up andrew weissman will join us next
38:09today minnesota's deputy attorney general brian carter told a federal judge quote if this is not
38:15stopped right here right now i don't think anybody who is seriously looking at this problem can have
38:22much faith in how our republic is going to go in the future joining us now is andrew weissman former
38:30fbi general counsel and an ms now legal analyst andrew uh stark terms for this point in uh the american
38:38legal process where what's your assessment of where we are tonight well i have a legal assessment and i
38:46have a sort of policy assessment and it's really hard to start with the legal even though i know that's
38:52that's why i'm here um i think that i'm going to start with a policy point of view which is
38:58everything that's happening in minnesota is is not about the sort of agents on the ground and the
39:06my view lawless completely lawless behavior that we're seeing because none of that happens
39:12um without the impunity that has been afforded them by the white house they're they're carrying out
39:20sort of the literal marching orders of the white house so we may see that christy noem is sort of
39:26now
39:26bypassed and um and that uh agent bovino is moved away that to me to be very blunt is lipstick
39:37on a pig
39:38that doesn't make any difference whatsoever if the policy doesn't change um and on the legal front
39:45there are challenges based on the 10th amendment the first amendment the fourth amendment um you have to
39:51remember the district judges here are in a very very conservative and somewhat erratic um circuit and
39:59we've already seen one injunction um be overturned um by the eighth circuit uh you know just a few hours
40:07ago um and so i think the real answer here is going to be on the the sort of the
40:13people being on the streets
40:14reacting to what's going on and the pressure that politicians the news agencies put on um the the
40:21administration in terms of what's happening as the uh local prosecutors look at this the these two uh
40:29homicides that we've seen there uh knowing that they're on their own uh that they are going to have
40:37to try to do this investigation on their own federal government could be withholding evidence they could have
40:41a years-long battle trying to get evidence uh from the federal government handed over to them uh
40:48isn't it a very a possibly messy uh legal future here um that part is a messy legal future they
40:57are
40:58doing all the right things there is uh pending litigation to have a turnover of evidence to have
41:04evidence preserved i want to make sure people understand what the federal government has said today
41:10in court that when federal agents go to minneapolis even if they commit a state crime and not just any
41:18state crime the state crime of murder that the local police department has absolutely nothing to do about
41:27that they can they have no jurisdiction um that the federal government can come in commit murder and that
41:36the locals do not have the ability to act that is the statement of the trump administration today in
41:45court that that cannot be the law and i really do not think that will be the law final point
41:51the statute
41:53of limitations on murder is forever um and so this is something that this may be justice delayed but there
42:02may not be justice denied so glad you made the point about the statute of limitations andrew weissman
42:07thank you very much for joining us tonight you're welcome we'll be right back
Comments