- 3 weeks ago
The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 17
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00:00...word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
00:02Good evening, Rachel. We learned during your hour that Donald Trump is in retreat,
00:07especially with that news about Bovino being out. But I was really struck in your interview
00:12with Senator Klobuchar that the White House chief of staff texted her, contacted her earlier today
00:18to tell her what was coming. You add that to Donald Trump's social media post saying he's
00:24now having good phone calls with the governor and the mayor. And that's Donald Trump telling you
00:30he knows this is hurting him. That's right. This is a political fight. They want what they're doing
00:38to be outside of politics. They want what they're doing to be just physical force and intimidation
00:44and menace and weapons and violence, right? That's it. But this is still a country where there is a
00:50democracy and the political winds blowing against them have now blown them down. Not by violence,
00:56not by civil war, not by some sort of meeting guns with guns confrontation, but rather by politically,
01:04small d democratically, peacefully standing up to them. And they just got wiped out by this thing.
01:09They did the wrong thing in a way that activated too many different types of political democratic
01:15force against them. And now they've just crumbled. And, you know, let this be the first of many,
01:21honestly, if they're going to keep trying stuff like this.
01:23Rachel, in Minnesota, as you know, they don't call them district attorneys. They call them county
01:28attorneys. And we have our first guest tonight, county attorney Mary Moriarty, who has jurisdiction
01:35over murder cases in Minneapolis. She joined us last week and she said last week that she is going to
01:42be
01:43conducting investigations of these killings. And she believes that there is still a definite
01:50ability for the state of Minnesota, the county to actually bring charges in these cases, if that's
01:56what the evidence warrants when they examine it. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the federal government
02:01is doing their best to try to prevent the state crime of murder from being charged here or any related
02:09crimes to these, any crimes that may pertain to these killings. But they don't have the final word
02:14on that. The states do. If they want to charge it, they can. And if they feel like they can
02:18charge it,
02:19they can. That's going to be a fascinating conversation, Lawrence. Yeah. And Donald Trump can
02:23pardon every federal agent that he wants to and probably will pardon the entire ICE staff.
02:30But that's just for federal prosecutions. That does not protect them from a state prosecution
02:34in Minnesota. So we're going to get right to that. That's right. Good. Good. Good on you,
02:39Lawrence. See you soon. Thanks, Richard. Thank you. Well, Donald Trump is running scared tonight
02:46because we are all witnesses now. Donald Trump is posting on social media today and tonight that he had
02:53a good phone call with the governor of Minnesota, who Donald Trump has been demonizing until today.
03:01And he's not demonizing him anymore because we are all witnesses now.
03:06Tonight, Donald Trump posted that he had a good phone call with the mayor of Minneapolis,
03:10who Donald Trump has been calling a communist and attacking in the most unhinged Trumpian ways.
03:15But Donald Trump is making conciliatory public statements tonight about wanting to cooperate
03:20now with the governor of Minnesota and wanting to cooperate now with the mayor of Minneapolis because
03:28Donald Trump is running scared tonight. Donald Trump is in retreat tonight. And Donald Trump is running
03:35scared because we are all witnesses now. When we see the video, we become eyewitnesses. And if we watch
03:44all of the videos of what Donald Trump and his Border Patrol agents did to Alex Preddy,
03:50we then become better eyewitnesses than the people who would be allowed to testify at a murder trial
03:58as eyewitnesses because they were there on the scene. Some of those eyewitnesses were recording
04:04video at the same time, which actually distracts from what they can take in as eyewitnesses in that
04:10moment because they are also camera operators as well as eyewitnesses. Contrary to popular opinion
04:16and Hollywood portrayals, eyewitness testimony is not as reliable as factual circumstantial
04:23evidence is like ballistics reports and autopsies, which are often the most solid evidence in any murder
04:30case. Professor Elizabeth Loftus' groundbreaking work on eyewitness testimony, including the books she
04:37written about eyewitness testimony, have shown all of the human weaknesses that come with standard
04:43eyewitness testimony. An eyewitness might honestly believe someone was shot in the back and another
04:49eyewitness might not be so sure. But if the autopsy shows an entrance wound in the back, then that is
04:56not just evidence. That is proof beyond a reasonable doubt of being shot in the back. And the autopsy is
05:03technically circumstantial evidence, but it's better evidence often than eyewitness testimony.
05:08Each eyewitness only has their individual angle on what they can see. But when we collect multiple
05:15videos of the same shooting of Alex Preddy, and we watch all of those videos, we become the best
05:23eyewitnesses to that shooting. We are all witnesses now. And eyewitnesses have a right to believe what they
05:32see. Eyewitnesses have a right to reach conclusions about what they see. And since we are all now
05:38eyewitnesses to two of Donald Trump's agents he sent to Minnesota firing 10 shots into a man face down on
05:45the pavement and killing that man in a matter of seconds, we can all look at the video and conclude
05:50beyond a reasonable doubt that every shot fired after the first shot is murder, not negligent homicide.
05:58That might be what the first shot is, because an analysis of the videos show that an agent in a
06:05gray jacket removed a handgun from Alex Preddy's right hip and rushed away with that handgun. And
06:10immediately after he removed that handgun and stepped away, the first shot was fired into Alex
06:17Preddy's back or the back of his head. And that first shot could have been because the man in the
06:22gray
06:22jacket said there's a gun. But the gun was already removed when that first shot was fired.
06:29So that first shot could have been a mistake within that space of interaction. And that shot fired less
06:38than three feet away from Alex Preddy very, very likely killed him, the autopsy will tell us.
06:43But what happens next on the video, as you will see in a moment, is that all of the agents,
06:49all of them, upon hearing that first shot, start backing away from the now lifeless body. They're walking
06:58backwards away from the body. And as they walk backwards away from the body, they fully reveal
07:07and are looking at a motionless body lying face down in front of them on the pavement with nothing else
07:15around that body. And they can all see absolutely no threat posed to anyone by that body, which is
07:24probably a dead body at that point. And that is when two and only two of those agents decide to
07:33continue
07:33to pump bullets into Alex Preddy's body. And that decision is murder. It is a decision, not a reflex.
07:42Each shot fired by law enforcement officer has to be a decision, not a reflex. Law enforcement officers
07:50are supposed to be trained to assess the situation after each shot fired to determine if another shot
07:58needs to be fired. There are several agents positioned around Alex Preddy's body, and most of
08:06them decide there is absolutely no reason to fire a gun while those other two agents are firing their
08:15guns. And the agents who didn't fire their guns, who knew there was absolutely no threat to their
08:21lives or anyone else's, those agents were right. And the killers of Alex Preddy were wrong.
08:26And that is what the facts before us right now prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
08:32We're going to show you now the 24-second video, a disturbing video shot from the angle that shows
08:39that the shots are still being fired as the officers have stepped backward, far into a safety zone.
08:50It is correct to step backward. That's where the safety is. And they have stepped backward
08:56into the safety zone, away from that man lying face down on the pavement. And two of them decide
09:03it's time to shoot him several more times.
09:10Here is that video.
09:14They're doing too much, man. And they keep pushing people, you know?
09:17They're doing too much, man. They keep pushing people, you know?
09:34Oh, ******! What the ******?
09:41the next video you're about to see and take the time if you care to to go online and watch
09:48these
09:48videos again yourself we're only showing them once they go by in seconds they're very quick
09:52the action's very quick you might want to watch it more than once to understand what you're seeing
09:56or see the new york times analysis of the videos that's available online but this next video shows
10:03alex preddy trying to be helpful not to donald trump's federal agents but to the people in the
10:09area cars trying to pass through alex preddy is directing traffic to those cars trying to help
10:15out those motorists and then alex preddy tries to be helpful to a woman with an orange backpack
10:20who is assaulted by donald trump's border patrol agents that agent committed the crime of assault
10:28and battery the agent you will see committing the crime of assault and battery against that woman
10:33because that's what it is beyond a reasonable doubt on that video that is assault and battery that agent
10:40is one of the killers of alex preddy keep that in mind as you watch this video it begins with
10:47the
10:47crime of assault and battery committed by an agent who then goes on to commit murder alex preddy you
10:54will see commits no crime alex preddy tries to help the woman who has been assaulted and then alex preddy
11:04gets assaulted and alex preddy and the woman both fall to the ground and that woman is alive today only
11:13because as you will see on this video when she's on the ground being assaulted by donald trump's border patrol
11:21agents
11:21she does everything she does everything she possibly can to crawl away from the agent who is assaulting
11:28her and trying to hold her in place and because she was successful and crawling as far away as she
11:34did
11:35from alex preddy and from that agent she is alive tonight
11:43those 10 bullets would have been used to probably murder her too those nine bullets fired at alex preddy
11:54after the first shot had probably already killed him those nine bullets would have found her in that
12:02kind of shooting spree if she hadn't done everything she possibly could to get away from donald trump's
12:08federal agents who's trying to hold her in place
12:13so watch alex preddy directing traffic trying to be helpful watch the woman with the orange backpack
12:18get assaulted illegally assaulted by that agent watch her fall to the ground watch alex preddy fall to
12:26the ground this will only go this will go by in seconds that action it's very disturbing to watch
12:34here is that video
12:43go
12:44go
12:44go
12:44go
12:45go
12:57go
12:57go
12:57You.
12:59You.
13:02You.
13:04You.
13:06You.
13:11You.
13:14You.
13:16Honestly.
13:17You.
13:33What the did you just do?
13:36What the did you just do?
13:39What the did you just do?
13:39What the ?
13:41What the ?
13:43Oh my god.
13:46Oh my god.
13:49Oh my god.
13:51Oh my god.
13:54Oh my god.
13:54Oh my god.
13:55The did you just do?
13:58The did you just do?
14:00Oh my god.
14:01Ah.
14:04Somebody call the ambulance.
14:07Somebody needs to call the ambulance.
14:13Somebody call 911.
14:14I can't believe they just did that holy holy just come on come on oh my god you people man
14:33you're killing us why would you do that
14:41oh my god oh my god I can't believe I'm seeing this I can't believe I'm seeing this
14:47oh my god come on come on come on come here come on come here
14:54it is
15:10that blurring was inserted in the video by the network to block the actual sight of Alex
15:18Freddie's body lying on the pavement there and when you watch that video in the aftermath
15:24of the murder the question becomes why didn't they kill them all why didn't they kill them all
15:32there were other brave people on that street who continued to record on video what those agents had
15:42done and what they were doing you can see a woman in that video getting up very close very close
15:48to
15:49where the shooting occurred after the shooting why didn't they kill her Alex Freddie didn't do
15:56anything more than what she was doing she instead those agents after they've killed someone after
16:03that they've cooled down enough not to kill everyone in sight after they've killed one that's what it
16:11takes to get them to decide oh this is not a situation in which we have to kill anyone
16:17including this woman who's coming up very close to us now with her camera and in the end you see
16:22her
16:22bending over in agony at what she has witnessed why wasn't she killed if it was legitimate to kill Alex
16:29Freddie remember the presumption of innocence is only a theory a legal theory it is a legal theory
16:38theory designed to structure criminal prosecutions the structure of a criminal prosecution is based
16:46on that theory of presumption of innocence that's the way the process is constructed and that for
16:53example is why there's no requirement in American law that the defendant must testify in other countries
16:59defendants do have to testify but not here because of the presumption of innocence which binds
17:04absolutely no one no one other than a jury the only people who are charged with observing the presumption
17:13of innocence at the outset of a criminal trial are the jury the prosecutor doesn't presume innocence
17:20that's why the prosecutor is there the prosecutor presumes guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in that room
17:28and makes that case in that room no one in the general public is required to presume innocence
17:34of criminal defendants or potential criminal defendants no one in the news media is required by any
17:40judicial principle to presume innocence but the news media cowered by the phrase presumption of innocence
17:45and failing to comprehend it ends up often softening language and coverage of what we can all see
17:53because we are all witnesses now
17:58donald trump's dangerously buffoonish fbi director who was chosen as an insult to the fbi said this
18:08you do not get to attack law enforcement officials in this country without any repercussions you do not
18:14get to do that in minnesota la or anywhere else
18:18oh yes you do these people got to do that and they got to do that because they were doing
18:26it
18:26for donald trump they were attacking police office for donald trump and they did it without any
18:32repercussions because they did it for donald trump and donald trump pardoned every single one of them
18:40because they attacked police officers and tried to beat them to death for donald trump trumpism means
18:47believing that if you don't support donald trump the united states constitution does not support you
18:53you have no rights granted under the constitution if you don't support donald trump rights are granted
18:59by donald trump to trump supporters that is trumpism as perfectly articulated just then by his buffoonish fbi
19:08director donald trump is removing greg bovino as the commander of his invasion forces in minneapolis
19:16and replacing him with who could it be tom holman who was recorded on an fbi video accepting fifty thousand
19:25dollars in cash during the last trump presidential campaign from fbi undercover agents
19:32donald trump's justice department closed down that investigation of donald trump's friend tom
19:37homan but that investigation can be reopened three years from now when a democrat is president
19:44and we will eventually see that video of tom homan accepting the fifty thousand dollars from the fbi
19:51undercover agents alex preddy was an intensive care unit nurse at a veterans of uh hospital
20:01donald trump of course doesn't care about veterans at all but he pretends to as a politician and as a
20:06campaigner alex preddy devoted his life to veterans devoted his life to saving their lives and he did
20:14i for one didn't understand that nurses are the greatest heroes who walk among us until i was
20:20hospitalized for the first time in 2014 after being injured in the backseat of a taxi cab in a head
20:25-on
20:25collision that's when i became for the first time fully dependent on nurses for months i was in awe
20:31of their quiet competence and heroism and devotion i loved my nurses and still do we can never thank
20:39our nurses enough and the one thing i know about alex preddy's life is that he was never thanked enough
20:45no matter how hard people tried to thank him because we the patients can never find the words big enough
20:51to express our gratitude and love to our nurses alex preddy's last words were words he said thousands
21:01upon thousands of times in his life as a nurse and his work as a nurse alex preddy's last words
21:10were
21:11are you okay that's what he asked the one the woman with the orange backpack who he was trying to
21:18help
21:18he was trying to protect are you okay that's what he was worried about not himself are you okay
21:28jessica hauser posted this on social media i was alex preddy's final nursing student he was my friend
21:35and my nursing mentor for the past four months i stood shoulder to shoulder with him during my capstone
21:42preceptorship at the minneapolis va hospital there he trained me to care for the sickest of the sick
21:49as an icu nurse he taught me how to care for arterial and central lines the intricacies of managing
21:55multiple ivs filled with life-saving solutions and how to watch over every heartbeat every breath
22:03and every flicker of life ready to act the moment they wavered techniques intended to heal
22:13alex carried patience compassion and calm as a steady light within him even at the very end that
22:20light was there i recognized his familiar stillness and signature calm composure shining through during
22:26those unbearable final moments captured on camera it does not surprise me that his final words were
22:33are you okay caring for people was at the core of who he was he was incapable of causing harm
22:41he lived a life of healing and he lived it well i am a better nurse because of the wisdom
22:47and skills
22:47he instilled in me i carry his light with me into every room letting it guide and steady my hands
22:54as i heal and care for those in need take one step no matter how small to help heal our
23:03world through these acts
23:04carry his light forward in his name let his legacy continue to heal
23:13the nation's largest union of registered nurses issued a statement saying that they quote
23:20seek justice for the murder by federal immigration agents of fellow registered nurse alex pretty
23:28we nurses are forever patient advocates and that means we will fight to protect you at the bedside
23:36and we will fight to protect you in the streets just as alex was doing when he was executed in
23:41cold
23:41blood by border patrol imagine being the parents of a 37 year old life-saving nurse in perfect
23:50health imagine being the parents of any 37 year old to discover on saturday morning that your 37
23:56year old son who woke up in perfect health in minneapolis is now dead dead from any cause a car
24:03accident maybe imagine that i for one cannot imagine how parents can ever manage to cope with the grief of
24:10the death of their child at any age we parents are supposed to go first not our children michael and
24:17susan preddy were hit with that devastating knee-buckling grief and then they were hit with donald trump's
24:25lies and donald trump's homeland security secretary's even worse lies about their son and then they were
24:34hit on sunday morning with more lies on tv from the always lying greg bovino the leader of donald trump's
24:41invasion forces in minnesota and even donald trump's treasury secretary of all people could not resist
24:48lying about michael and susan preddy's son on sunday morning tv imagine with all they had to bear
24:55alex preddy's parents had to compose and put out a written statement i would not be able to compose
25:02a single sentence under those circumstances but through it all through the pain the grief the
25:09unrelenting agony the weight of all of that michael and susan preddy composed themselves enough
25:20to say this we are heartbroken but also very angry alex was a kind-hearted soul who cared deeply for
25:29his
25:29family and friends and also the american veterans whom he cared for as an icu nurse at the minneapolis
25:38va hospital alex wanted to make a difference in this world unfortunately he will not be with us to
25:44see his impact i do not throw around the hero term lightly however his last thought and act was to
25:51protect
25:52a woman the sickening lies told about our son by the administration are reprehensible and disgusting
25:59alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by trump's murdering and cowardly ice thugs he has his
26:07phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is raised above his head while trying to protect the
26:14woman ice just pushed down all while being pepper sprayed please get the truth out about our son
26:23he was a good man thank you
26:29hennepin county attorney mary moriarty who has prosecutorial jurisdiction over murder cases
26:35in minneapolis will join us next
26:41a trump justice spartan lawyer told a federal judge in minneapolis today this whole event
26:46rose out of a federal immigration matter was conducted by federal officers doing their
26:51federal duty and the aftermath whatever happened is a federal matter joining us now is hennepin county
26:59attorney mary moriarty who has jurisdiction over homicide investigations in minneapolis uh are you
27:06conducting a homicide investigation of the killing of alex preddy yes um we are doing that in conjunction
27:14with the bureau of criminal apprehension can i say though before that i i saw the preddy statement
27:21and our victim witness people were going to reach out to the parents and i asked them to convey
27:26that i would make every effort on every interview i did to talk about who michael or alex preddy really
27:32was and not let the lies about him go uh on challenge so thank you so much for talking about
27:38who he really
27:38was well uh in a situation like this in an investigation like this to what extent is the is the
27:48case informed
27:49by who alex preddy actually is how relevant is his behavior in life leading up to this moment
27:57well most of the investigation is about what actually happened there um i think if his motivations were
28:03challenged or we had to look into why he was there um who he was might make more of a
28:09difference there
28:10but we're pretty focused on what happened there at the scene what he did uh what the ice agents did
28:16and we you know some of the videos you've showed we've got those and many many more we've synced them
28:22into you know so you can see every angle of it and we've watched those many many many times we're
28:28also interviewing witnesses um and just trying to gather all of the information that we can so we have
28:34a full picture now as you know uh not only do we have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that
28:41an agent
28:41or agent shot and killed him we have to be able to disprove a defense that law enforcement has that
28:49uh what they did was not objectively reasonable and then you add on to this the idea that if we
28:54do
28:55charge they are going to try to remove it to federal court there are some different challenges
29:01here than you would see in ordinary prosecutions of homicide cases you told us last week uh that if
29:08it does if a case like this is removed to federal court you the local prosecutors would still be the
29:14prosecutors on the case yes uh which is very unusual um so we would expect if we did charge that
29:22they
29:23would attempt to remove the case to federal court uh we would uh challenge that but ultimately we don't
29:30really have a choice in that but if it did go to federal court we would still be the prosecutors
29:34it
29:35would not be the u.s attorney's office and most importantly probably state law still applies so if
29:41somebody were to be convicted in federal court uh on our case uh trump could not pardon that person
29:49and uh as you go forward uh this is this the same approach you're taking uh in the renee good
29:57case
29:58yes unfortunately uh we've had to take that approach uh in in both of those cases but also the third
30:06shooting uh where a man was shot in the leg last week we are also investigating that uh in conjunction
30:12with the bca so you're in complete disagreement with the uh trump defense uh just department lawyer who
30:19said in federal court today that the aftermath whatever happened is a federal matter not at all
30:26uh people two people that were residents in our community were shot and killed it does not matter
30:33who those people work for they were shot and killed in hennepin county we have jurisdiction over this now
30:39the federal government could have jurisdiction over it as well but that does not preclude us from proceeding
30:46with a case should we think that that's appropriate and you need only look at the uh melissa
30:51hortman assassination where we do have joint um or dual prosecutions going forward the feds are going
30:59first and we're waiting patiently until they finish with him and then we'll go forward with our
31:04prosecution that was not a law enforcement agent but that is certainly how it should work
31:10hennepin county prosecutor mary moriarty thank you very much for joining us tonight
31:14of course thank you and coming up we'll be joined by two law enforcement experts to consider just how
31:21reasonable it was was it a reasonable practice to fire those shots at alex preddy that's next
31:33we just heard hennepin county prosecutor mary moriarty say that the question she will be
31:37focused on in her homicide investigation of the killing of alex preddy is whether there was
31:43any reasonable justification for law enforcement to fire 10 shots at him and joining us now to
31:50consider that question are mark claxton director of the black law enforcement alliance and a retired
31:55nypd detective also with us kirk burkhalter professor of law at new york law school where he is the
32:01director of the 21st century policing project he is also a retired nypd detective uh mark claxton
32:08what do you see when you put all these videos together what i see are several uh violations of
32:16doj's own policies uh multiplied exponentially and i think uh along with the use of force
32:24policies doj uh has adopted which is kind of the national standard imminent uh threat of serious
32:32physical harm or death to yourself or others there was a violation of also their their de-escalation
32:41requirement uh along with the affirmative duty to intervene which deals specifically with intervening
32:50on your partner's misconduct or some uh conduct on the street there uh you can directly intervene you're
32:57required to directly intervene i didn't see any intervention uh to attempt to de-escalate or to
33:05uh uh uh uh eliminate this threat that was obviously posed by the ice or border patrol agents themselves and
33:13then also affirmative duty to render aid i didn't see and i don't know if if if you have seen
33:20any video
33:20about this but i haven't seen any uh rendering of aid immediately following the shooting what i saw
33:26was some retreat by these quote-unquote professional law enforcement individuals so there are several
33:31different layers of policy violations along with the atrocity of this enforcement operation
33:40kirk burkhalter what what do you see in the videos what jumps out uh to me is the ramifications of
33:49a
33:50law enforcement officers who are not trained for the mission that they were asked to do the tactics are
33:58appear to be poor uh this is a classic example of contagious fire they are gassing themselves when
34:06they're deploying tear gas and they are as you mentioned in your opening um committing assaults if law
34:15enforcement if you put your hands on someone you push them down uh that may be necessary force for
34:21arrest but if there's no arrest then that's a crime so for me the majority of this leads back to
34:29as far
34:29as the officers are concerned these agents uh not trained for this mission whatsoever it's just
34:37taking a group of folks and throwing them out there and asking them to enforce the law this is
34:44i'm so glad you mentioned uh the contagious fire of phenomenon because that that was a point that i
34:49saw and and wanted to include in our analysis and and mark that's the phenomenon we've seen it uh for
34:55as long as we've been studying these cases that one officer in a group fires and that creates a contagion
35:02effect with someone else firing thinking uh not not knowing where the threat was coming from necessarily
35:07there's a lot of reasons for it but that that multiple uh shot situation from multiple shooters
35:14is always a fascinating thing to see especially when most of the officers who have exactly the same
35:20opportunity see no reason to fire their weapons yeah and that's it that's important to point out
35:26and what it shows is that a professional law enforcement person understands quite clearly that each
35:33individual officer or agent is responsible for each trigger pull or discharge of that weapon they have
35:41to make individual assessments about what is an imminent threat of serious physical harm or death to
35:47themselves and they have to make those decisions not part of group think because that's when you get
35:54into these contagious situations but they have to respond based on their own individual assessments uh
36:01not necessarily influenced by their partners so you have that situation and you also have this other
36:08element of of officer created jeopardy that oftentimes comes into play in these situations where it is the
36:15law enforcement professional who is initiating the actions that lead to a situation where there is a a fatal
36:23confrontation and then they come back to say well we were put in a position where there was an imminent
36:29threat to ourselves yeah the first shooting of this kind that i ever studied uh a shooting in boston
36:35in 1975 was one officers started firing because the other officer started firing for for exactly that reason
36:41uh kirk as a lawyer what do you see uh in terms of this case as a homicide investigation a
36:47homicide is is a
36:49legally neutral word it just means a human being killed a human being uh sometimes justified sometimes
36:54not but what do you see here as a lawyer in this case well it will turn on reasonableness the
37:01uh
37:02agents involved whether they can articulate that their use of force was reasonable based on their
37:09experiences in the light of all circumstances i will tell you this is uh quite a hill for them to
37:15climb
37:16we have video of the gun being removed prior to uh the shots were being fired did the officer that
37:25removed the weapon uh call out to the other officers that he had removed the weapon um this man was
37:32on
37:33the ground and multiple multiple officers were trying to subdue him was it necessary to shoot him we heard
37:42these reports that he brandished a weapon never brandished a weapon it's going to be difficult but that
37:47reasonableness right that's what law enforcement officers must articulate when explaining the use of force in the
37:54face of criminal charges kirk burkhalter and mark claxton thank you both very much for joining us tonight
38:01you're quite welcome coming up andrew weissman will join us next
38:09today minnesota's deputy attorney general brian carter told a federal judge quote if this is not
38:15stopped right here right now i don't think anybody who is seriously looking at this problem can have
38:22much faith in how our republic is going to go in the future joining us now is andrew weissman former
38:30fbi general counsel and an ms now legal analyst andrew uh stark terms for this point in uh the american
38:38legal process where what's your assessment of where we are tonight well i have a legal assessment and i have
38:47a sort of policy assessment and it's really hard to start with the legal even though i know that's that's
38:52why
38:52i'm here um i think that i'm going to start with a policy point of view which is everything that's
38:59happening in minnesota is is not about the sort of agents on the ground and the my view lawless
39:08completely lawless behavior that we're seeing because none of that happens um without the impunity
39:14that has been afforded them by the white house they're they're carrying out sort of the literal marching
39:21orders of the white house so we may see that christy noem is sort of now bypassed and um and
39:29that uh
39:30agent bovino is moved away that to me to be very blunt is lipstick on a pig that doesn't make
39:39any
39:39difference whatsoever if the policy doesn't change um and on the legal front there are challenges based
39:46on the 10th amendment the first amendment the fourth amendment um you have to remember the district
39:52judges here are in a very very conservative and somewhat erratic um circuit and we've already seen
40:00one injunction um be overturned um by the eighth circuit uh you know just a few hours ago um and
40:08so i
40:09think the real answer here is going to be on the the sort of the people being on the streets
40:14reacting
40:15to what's going on and the pressure that politicians the news agencies put on um the the administration
40:22in terms of what's happening as the uh local prosecutors look at this the these two uh homicides
40:30that we've seen there uh knowing that they're on their own uh that they are going to have to try
40:37to do
40:37this investigation on their own federal government could be withholding evidence they could have
40:41a years-long battle trying to get evidence uh from the federal government hand it over to them uh
40:48isn't it a very a possibly messy uh legal future here um that part is a messy legal future they
40:57are
40:58doing all the right things there is uh pending litigation to have a turnover of evidence to have
41:04evidence preserved i want to make sure people understand what the federal government has said
41:09today in court that when federal agents go to minneapolis even if they commit a state crime and not
41:17just any state crime the state crime of murder that the local police department has absolutely nothing
41:26to do about that they can they have no jurisdiction um that the federal government can come in commit murder
41:35and that the locals do not have the ability to act that is the statement of the trump administration
41:43today in court that that cannot be the law and i really do not think that will be the law
41:50final point
41:51the statute of limitations on murder is forever um and so this is something that this may be justice
42:00delayed but there it may not be justice denied so glad you made the point about the statute of
42:06limitations andrew weisman thank you very much for joining us tonight you're welcome we'll be right back
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