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00:33In a world where the lines of fiction and reality are blurred, no one pushed the boundaries
00:39further than Jerome Young, a.k.a. New Jack.
00:48The line in wrestling between cooperation and physical assault is blurred.
00:54You can only go so far without your opponent knowing that it's coming.
01:00But how far is too far?
01:02F*** you, man. You know what you did. Period.
01:06And what happens when a wrestler lost in his character
01:09is set loose in a world that rewards extreme violence?
01:15You want to talk that big boy s*** to me?
01:18I would dare you to come to my face and say that s***.
01:23I would dare you.
01:24I eat your a** alive. I dare you.
01:34Far beyond the world of elbow drops and headlocks
01:38lies the underground realm of extreme hardcore wrestling
01:42where fans' appetite for real-life brutality is endless.
01:47When audiences thought they'd seen it all, New Jack took it to a whole new level.
01:53Many of his performances bordered on criminal, and some crossed that line.
01:58In this episode, we'll pull back the curtain of wrestling's most provocative and controversial
02:03characters to reveal the man behind the monster and the legacy he has left in his wake.
02:10Okay, so for someone who's totally not familiar, who is New Jack?
02:16I could not sit here and swear in open court that anything that New Jack ever told me
02:20about his background was true or false.
02:22I've heard he was a bounty hunter.
02:24I've heard he had a number of justifiable homicides to his credit.
02:28The way he talks, the way he walks, the way he carries himself, this brother is real.
02:33Just imagine a badass, big African-American dude slinging drugs
02:37on one of the hardest streets in, like, Harlem, you know what I'm saying?
02:41If you f*** with him, he will kill you.
02:43Maybe not kill you, kill you, but he will f*** you up.
02:46He's that tough f***ing f***, dude.
02:49I went to a movie called New Jack City, just getting into wrestling there.
02:53And when I heard the name New Jack, I started playing with it in my head,
02:58like hearing fans chant New Jack, New Jack, New Jack, New Jack.
03:02How did you come into wrestling?
03:04Like, who taught you the ropes?
03:06Ray Candy.
03:07Well, I got in the ring with him, and he was like,
03:10trust me, let me train you.
03:11And then he told me something one day that f***ed my head up so bad.
03:16You got to create something that you've never seen before.
03:20I said, what kind of mind f*** is that?
03:23You want to create a character?
03:26Create something you've never seen before.
03:28When I saw Jack come out, he just instantly picked up the energy in the room,
03:34and people reacted to it.
03:36I'm Jim Cornette, and in the mid-90s,
03:38I ran a wrestling promotion in East Tennessee called Smoky Mountain Wrestling.
03:42Smoky Mountain Wrestling was looking to break into the Atlanta market,
03:45and we needed a heel.
03:46When I saw New Jack, he could project that aura of menace.
03:52See, it was like, just straight up f***ed from the goddamn hood.
03:57And he had an intensity on his face.
03:59And then he gets the microphone, and he starts talking to the people,
04:02and this guy is talking a mile a minute, and he's getting people riled up.
04:05I don't care about these heel villains not liking me.
04:09Get in this ring, and I'll beat you like I own you.
04:12If Eddie Murphy was a bad guy wrestler instead of a comedian,
04:16it would be New Jack.
04:17He could talk nonstop, and he could say these things in an entertaining way,
04:21but he would make you hate him.
04:23Beyond his natural charisma,
04:25New Jack infuses his character with a piercing level of real-world tension.
04:30L.A. was hot at the time because of the Rodney King thing going on.
04:34O.J. had just killed everybody in L.A.
04:37South Central L.A. was on the map.
04:39And the whole gimmick, the Raider gear, the gold chain,
04:42I took all of that and put it into my character.
04:45The Smoky Mountain Wrestling audience was predominantly white,
04:48predominantly redneck and hillbilly.
04:50All you had to say was,
04:52New Jack, go out, piss some white people off,
04:55and the rest was up to him.
04:56And it was gold. It was genius.
04:59I'd like to send a special shout-out to my homeboy, O.J. Simpson.
05:03Listen, keep up the good work, baby.
05:05Two less we got to worry about.
05:08You understand?
05:09Keep up the good work.
05:10I was like,
05:11I want these n**** to believe what I'm doing.
05:14I want them to believe what I'm saying is f***ing real.
05:18To enhance New Jack's cutting-edge character,
05:21he is paired with the perfect enforcer,
05:23another Smoky Mountain recruit named Mustafa Saeed.
05:26He didn't say much,
05:28but he looked like he would kill somebody.
05:31And I said,
05:32a guy that can talk like this new Jack.
05:34I'm here,
05:35and I'm gonna be here
05:36until I feel like I want to leave.
05:39And a guy that looks like Mustafa
05:41would be a great tag team.
05:43So he said,
05:44what's your tag team name?
05:45I said,
05:45well, actually,
05:46we don't have a name.
05:47See,
05:48and he said,
05:48what about the gangsters?
05:50I said,
05:50what about the gangsters?
05:51I was with an A.S. on a hand.
05:54Just picture a hard-ass freaking movie
05:56in the hood somewhere, dude,
05:58and they're the baddest ass dudes in the hood.
06:00I'm the Sandman.
06:01I've been a professional wrestler since 1989.
06:05I'm the dude.
06:06I'm gonna play you in a game of pole,
06:08and then when I lose,
06:09I'm gonna hit you over the head with a stank
06:10and drink your beer anyway.
06:12That's me in a nutshell.
06:13Yo,
06:14the gangsters had a lot of heat down there
06:16in my neighborhoods.
06:18The gangsters were
06:19a group of young,
06:22angry black men
06:23telling every white person
06:25everything every other black person
06:28wanted to say but couldn't.
06:29You little Caucasian white devil,
06:31I told you that I would get you.
06:34The next time
06:35that I get to put my hands
06:36around that little pink neck of yours,
06:39I'm gonna choke the life out of you.
06:40My name is D-Lo Brown.
06:42I'm a 26-year pro.
06:44God,
06:45that sounds so old.
06:46My role in the gangsters was
06:47I was their head of security.
06:50In reality,
06:51I was the bump guy.
06:52You know,
06:52gangsters would lose no heat,
06:53but you could beat me
06:54and we can keep rolling.
06:55Down goes D-Lo Brown.
06:57Hey, wait a minute.
06:58New Jack would just stir people up so much.
07:00None of his stuff was written,
07:01and there are some times
07:02I stood there and I listened,
07:03I was like,
07:05you wish I was like,
07:07some more,
07:08some more,
07:08what a man,
07:10chicken bone sucking,
07:12black folk.
07:13Check those promos out.
07:15When Mustafa's standing there next to him
07:16going,
07:17dude,
07:17that's what he was doing all day.
07:19And you know what I'm saying?
07:20Nothing but rednecks up here.
07:23That wasn't Mustafa being that for the interview.
07:25That was Mustafa.
07:26Mustafa's crazy, bro.
07:28The dude was rolling pencil shavings
07:30in one of those blunt things,
07:32and he wanted me to smoke her with him.
07:34I'm like,
07:34no, dude,
07:34I'm good.
07:35It was Mustafa smoking pencil shavings.
07:39I plead the fifth.
07:42He's like,
07:42Jack,
07:43this some new shit.
07:45He had pencil shavings,
07:46he had some shit he had found
07:48growing on the side of the building
07:49in the bag.
07:50I said,
07:51if you smoke this shit,
07:52it's gonna come back
07:53and haunt you one day.
07:54He's like,
07:55no, man,
07:55this some good shit, man.
07:56I'm up right now.
07:57You all try.
07:57So we sit in the hotel.
07:59I hit him knock at the door.
08:00So I said,
08:01Jack,
08:01Mustafa downstairs,
08:02fighting the cops.
08:03So he dropped everything.
08:05They had him handcuffed,
08:06face down.
08:07He blowing snot on the floor.
08:09And this is what Mustafa was saying.
08:13I know you wanna me.
08:15Wait the man.
08:17I said,
08:17what the is wrong with you?
08:18He was like,
08:19no, Jack,
08:20they wanna me.
08:20Everybody wanna me.
08:22I said,
08:22Mustafa,
08:22you just lost your goddamn mind.
08:23The gangsters had embraced
08:25the idea that
08:26I'm going to go out there
08:27and I'm going to be
08:28a minister to society.
08:30One night we did a show.
08:31I had been to the dentist
08:33and my mouth was sore
08:34to a point
08:35where I couldn't hardly talk.
08:36So I said,
08:37Mustafa,
08:37let's go to Walmart
08:38and I bought a white baby dog
08:39and I had a rope
08:41tied like a noose
08:42and I walked out to the ring.
08:43I got in the middle of the ring
08:44and held the baby dog up
08:45and it was like,
08:46get the f*** out of here
08:48with that shit.
08:49New Jack had everyone
08:50so mad at the gangsters
08:51hit Lurker
08:52to walk out through the curtain
08:53and he'd have been a baby face.
08:54I pissed people
08:55the f*** off
08:56and we got so much heat
08:58to the point
08:59where these f***ing
09:00like we gonna kill
09:01them f***ing niggas.
09:02They didn't say niggas.
09:04We gonna kill them f***ing niggas.
09:06Unleashing their unfiltered
09:07vision of the times,
09:09the gangsters are quickly
09:10becoming the hottest villains
09:11in the territory.
09:12I wanted to get the gangsters
09:14right into the tag team
09:14title picture
09:15so they have to
09:17attack the champions
09:19of Rock and Roll Express.
09:20Now this is Ricky and Robert
09:22at the Rock and Roll Express.
09:23I mean,
09:24these f***ing been around forever
09:25and they done been there
09:26and done it.
09:27Taking controversy
09:28to a new level,
09:29they decide to recreate
09:31the 1992 police beating
09:33of Rodney King
09:33but in their version,
09:35the roles are reversed.
09:37Ricky Morton
09:37is knocked to the floor.
09:39All of a sudden,
09:40the gangsters
09:40and their posse,
09:41there's like three or four of them.
09:42Jack brought everybody
09:43he knew for this one
09:44and they circled
09:45Ricky Morton
09:46in the middle of the ring
09:46and he's bleeding
09:47and he's looking
09:48at the fans in the front row,
09:49help me.
09:50And they beat the bejesus
09:52out of him
09:52with these nightsticks.
09:54So we got done,
09:55all the white people
09:56that went out in the back
09:57and they was waiting
09:58on us to come out the door
09:59and they had bricks
10:00in their hands
10:01and sticks
10:02so we got behind the cops.
10:03They turned the f***ing lights on
10:04and escorted us
10:05out of the f***ing town.
10:07When I saw that,
10:08I knew we were doing our job.
10:10The NAACP in Knoxville
10:12had called
10:12and we don't think
10:13this is a good representation.
10:15So Jack took that
10:17and he said,
10:18some Negroes
10:19down in Knoxville
10:20calling themselves
10:21the NAACP
10:23or something or another.
10:24They don't like me.
10:25I say it once
10:26and I say it again.
10:27The hell
10:28with them homegrown monkeys.
10:31Right, so from that point on
10:33we started putting up
10:34a disclaimer.
10:35The views of the gangstas
10:37are not necessarily
10:37those of Smoky Mountain Wrestling
10:39or this station.
10:40You thought maybe we was
10:42cotton pickers?
10:43Wrong!
10:44Maybe you thought
10:45you had some homegrown
10:47Negroes?
10:48Wrong!
10:49Would you say that
10:50that period
10:51in Smoky Mountain
10:51was that fun?
10:53No.
10:54To have
10:56somebody
10:59calling you a nigger,
11:00I ain't got damn
11:01used to that s***.
11:02I said I can't get used to it
11:04and I ain't gonna try
11:04to get used to it.
11:05The gangsters were
11:06literally a microcosm
11:07of what was going on
11:07in society at that time
11:08and you drop us
11:10in the middle of
11:11the South,
11:12the N-word
11:13was freely thrown around
11:14like you would say hello.
11:16It was uncomfortable
11:17but if they didn't say that
11:18then we weren't
11:19touching that nerve.
11:21It's a pretty strange concept,
11:23yes.
11:23I want someone to
11:25hurl racial slurs at me.
11:27I had this little boy
11:28come at me one day.
11:30He said can I shake your hand?
11:31I stuck my hand out
11:32and he rubbed my arm
11:33and looked at his hand.
11:35I said why'd you rub
11:36my f***ing arm
11:36and then look at your hand?
11:37He said I'm sorry.
11:38My dad told me
11:40you rub a black person's arm
11:42it'll rub off on you
11:43and you'll turn black.
11:45And I was like
11:46you little s***?
11:48As their provocative routine
11:49runs its course
11:50the gangstas jump
11:52at a sudden offer
11:52from a larger wrestling outfit
11:55ECW.
11:56ECW was extreme
11:58championship wrestling.
11:59It was the brainchild
12:00of Paul Heyman
12:01that it would be
12:01the 1990s wrestling answer
12:03to the grunge music movement.
12:05It would be gritty
12:06and violent
12:07and they'd blur
12:08a lot of lines.
12:09They were edgier
12:11whether it be
12:11sexual content
12:12or violence
12:13or blood
12:14or what have you.
12:15The stuff that you would see
12:16in one arena show
12:17was like
12:18it was a whole
12:19hardcore night.
12:20I had been talking
12:21to Paul Heyman
12:22in ECW.
12:22I had never heard
12:23of ECW.
12:24They invited me
12:25to come up there
12:26and I told Cornette
12:28I said Paul Heyman
12:29offered me a deal
12:30that he offered me
12:31a lot of goddamn money
12:32and he was pissed about it.
12:34I hated that
12:34they left on bad terms
12:36with me
12:36and me with them
12:37but they couldn't
12:38have gone any farther
12:39in Smoky Mountain Wrestling.
12:40Everything about ECW
12:42was not only more violent
12:43but also
12:44it was more real
12:45to the point
12:45where the guys
12:46started the trend
12:47of really hitting each other
12:48with stuff
12:49and hurting each other.
12:50ECW was filled
12:51with wrestlers
12:52that would go too far already
12:53and knew Jack
12:54had to be the guy
12:55that went farther
12:56than anybody.
12:56I'm like
12:57welcome home
13:05in June 1995
13:07the gangstas leave
13:09the hostile crowds
13:10of Smoky Mountain
13:11and join the eclectic crew
13:13of Philadelphia's
13:14wildly popular ECW.
13:17I told you boy
13:18we whooped their ass again!
13:20When we got to ECW
13:21we fit right in.
13:23New Jack is on a mission
13:25here tonight
13:26in Atlanta!
13:27And it was just like
13:29we love this shit.
13:31You gotta understand dude
13:32we're clicking hard
13:33and we know
13:33that we're like
13:34the hottest thing
13:35like on the planet
13:36by like 96, 97.
13:39I was sent to meet New Jack
13:41at the hotel
13:41when he first came up
13:42from Smoky Mountain
13:43so I was the first
13:44ECW guy I met.
13:45He got out of the car
13:46and I'm like
13:46alright I liked him
13:47he had swagger
13:48he was like
13:49don't f*** with me
13:50which was cool by me
13:51you know what I mean?
13:52I'm like
13:52oh this guy's gonna
13:53fit right in.
13:53Our locker room
13:54was one big family
13:55it's Tommy Dreamers
13:57RVD
13:58Taz
14:00Sabu's
14:00you know
14:00New Jack
14:01Heading up this
14:03locker room of misfits
14:04is promoter
14:05Paul Heyman.
14:06Paul Heyman
14:07was the mad scientist.
14:08Dude he was everything
14:10he was the writer
14:11he was f***ing
14:12the Steven Spielberg
14:13of all of it
14:14you know what I mean?
14:15That dude
14:16is like super brilliant.
14:18All our careers
14:19were jumping
14:19you know what I'm saying?
14:20I think New Jack
14:21got in that environment
14:22and he always had to be
14:24the most extreme guy
14:25in any situation
14:26but there were no limits
14:27up there.
14:28I come out with the weapons
14:31diving on shit
14:34fighting out in the audience
14:35going through chairs
14:36and tables
14:37and knocking down
14:38chairs and shit
14:39it was like blood and guts
14:40every goddamn night.
14:42I truly feel that
14:43the reason why Jack
14:44was so violent
14:45so extreme
14:46because the way he grew up
14:48his childhood
14:48his upbringing
14:49I think that plays a part
14:50on who he is
14:51I mean it has to.
14:54My childhood was f***ing.
14:56I had a daddy
14:57that was an alcoholic
14:59he hated my mom
15:00one night
15:01she came home from work
15:03when she walked in the door
15:04he pulled out a knife
15:05and he stabbed her
15:07five times
15:08he stabbed her
15:13in front of the whole family
15:15he didn't give up
15:16f***ing.
15:17he stabbed her
15:18a few months later
15:19she was like
15:20I'm leaving
15:20she picked me up
15:22tried to put me in the car
15:24he shot her
15:25in the back of the leg
15:27this is what
15:28I grew up around
15:32and I'm like
15:32you wonder why
15:33sometimes
15:34I flip the f*** out
15:37New Jack's outlet
15:38for violence
15:39has taken him
15:40to new heights
15:40in ECW
15:41but on November 23rd
15:431996
15:44a chance encounter
15:46with a novice wrestler
15:47is about to send
15:48shockwaves
15:49through the entire
15:50wrestling world
15:52can you tell me
15:54a story of the
15:55mass transit incident
15:57I didn't know
15:58what was coming
15:58he was 17
15:59he told me he was 21
16:00and he had
16:02a little person
16:03with him
16:03listen
16:04New Jack
16:05I'm not gonna lie
16:06he was intimidating
16:07that's because
16:08he was always
16:09presenting the image
16:10that he was sinister
16:11my name is
16:13Tiny the Terrible
16:15I was just basically
16:17one of those
16:17midget wrestlers
16:18that wanted to be
16:19considered
16:20not really
16:21as a midget wrestler
16:22just as a wrestler
16:23that was just sure
16:24so tell us
16:26who we're watching here
16:26Jerry Springer
16:28Quinn Terrace
16:30over 52 million
16:31people viewed
16:32this episode
16:32Jerry's the one
16:33that gave me
16:34the first opportunity
16:35to really speak
16:36on a nation level
16:38like that
16:38did people recognize
16:40you out there?
16:41oh yeah
16:41what was that like?
16:42aw great man
16:43you know
16:44that's how I got
16:44most of the p***y
16:45I got
16:45I'm used to having
16:47good looking women
16:48that's true
16:48I'm not
16:50I'm not gonna sing it
16:51I love the ego too
16:53cause I've been on TV
16:54you know
16:56New Jack was like
16:57if you went out
16:58of a script
16:59he would make you
16:59pay for it
17:00if you're gonna
17:01cut somebody
17:02all the f*** up
17:03on their first match
17:05that don't make
17:06no f***ing sense
17:07and you know
17:08and that's basically
17:09what happened
17:10with an Eric Kulas
17:12type situation
17:14teenage wrestler
17:15Eric Kulas
17:16calls himself
17:17mass transit
17:18dressed in a bus
17:20driver gimmick
17:20his matches
17:21with Tiny
17:22and his brother
17:23attract the attention
17:24of ECW
17:27he's seen the tape
17:28of Eric Kulas
17:30and my brother
17:30wrestling
17:31Paul Heyman
17:32couldn't believe
17:33that a big guy
17:34could work
17:35with midgets
17:35cause that's like
17:36unheard of
17:37the three are asked
17:39to appear
17:39in an upcoming match
17:41in Revere
17:42Massachusetts
17:44the best
17:45wrestling
17:46is
17:47not be able
17:48to discern
17:48the line
17:49between fiction
17:49and reality
17:50that was one
17:51of the big
17:51appeals of ECW
17:53I'm Stu Kaplan
17:54I'm John
17:55Donovan
17:55and we were
17:56doing security
17:56for the show
17:56I was upstairs
17:57I had a walkie-talkie
17:59and someone
18:00came on talkie
18:00and said
18:01there's some guys
18:02here for the show
18:03I saw Eric Kulas
18:05come in
18:05I didn't know
18:05who he was
18:06I had no idea
18:07who he was
18:07and I knew
18:08everybody
18:09and they went
18:10into the back
18:11of the locker room
18:12and that was
18:12literally the last
18:13time I saw Eric
18:14until he came out
18:15for the match
18:16no one knows
18:17that Eric
18:18has lied
18:18about his age
18:19claiming to be 21
18:21in reality
18:22he's a 17-year-old
18:24minor
18:24Axel Rotten
18:25didn't show up
18:26for the show
18:27he had
18:27a family emergency
18:28so Paul
18:29he was like
18:31he gets a tryout
18:32he decided
18:34to cut us out
18:35Eric like
18:35just
18:36cut us off
18:37and just
18:38went for self
18:40this untrained
18:41teenager
18:42who claimed
18:43to be a professional
18:43wrestler
18:44and had probably
18:44wrestled a few
18:45local shows
18:46shows up
18:47they needed
18:47somebody
18:48for New Jack
18:49to beat up
18:49so they said
18:50okay
18:51that was their
18:52first mistake
18:53so Paulie was like
18:54Jack y'all go for
18:55like seven minutes
18:56whatever you wanna do
18:57to the fat kid
18:58just do it
18:58I said Paulie
19:00what I'm gonna do
19:01to him
19:02people gonna be
19:03talking about this
19:0310 years from now
19:06well it's been
19:0720 years
19:08and we still
19:08talking about it
19:14by the end
19:15the end of 1996
19:16New Jack
19:17has taken
19:18his controversial
19:19career
19:20to dangerous
19:21new heights
19:21in the violent
19:22world of ECW
19:24now
19:25a last minute
19:26change has landed
19:27him in the ring
19:28with novice wrestler
19:29Eric Koulos
19:31you know we're
19:32we're on the
19:32grounds now
19:33of the
19:33wonderland
19:34dog track
19:34where
19:34the ECW
19:36famous gangster
19:37Eric Koulos
19:38incident happened
19:39and we got here
19:40early
19:40we got here
19:40probably two or
19:41three hours
19:41before the show
19:42but there were
19:42still people here
19:43and you know
19:44ECW
19:44ECW
19:45and I mean
19:46I can feel it
19:46I'm getting goosebumps
19:47now because
19:47that's what you got
19:48so the untrained
19:50teenager that's
19:50maybe had three
19:51local matches
19:52in his life
19:53is now gonna
19:54wrestle New Jack
19:55I saw Eric
19:56coming out
19:56and I'm like
19:57wow
19:57that was the guy
19:58that with his
19:59father
19:59when he came
20:00he must have
20:00gotten on the show
20:01Eric Koulos
20:02is paired up
20:03with D-Von Dudley
20:04replacing Axl Rotten
20:06in their tag team
20:07match with the
20:08gangstas
20:08mass transit
20:10this big teenager
20:11went up to New Jack
20:12and told him
20:14he wanted to get
20:14some offense in
20:15he came up to me
20:16and he was like
20:17can I do this
20:17backdrop you out
20:18of the ring
20:19put you through
20:20a table
20:20and I said
20:21f*** no
20:23that's one of
20:24the most
20:25disrespectful things
20:26that you could do
20:27as a wrestler
20:28to come to a vet
20:29and tell him
20:30what you wanna do
20:34so that's what
20:35pissed Jack off
20:37alright
20:38now it all makes
20:39sense
20:39why Jack was like
20:40I'm gonna cut
20:41this f***
20:42he wanted me
20:43to cut him
20:44he had already
20:45pissed me off
20:45at the time
20:46so I was like
20:46I'm good with it
20:47I'll cut the s*** out of you
20:48I ain't try to kill him
20:50but I want him to go
20:50close to death
20:53not only did the kid
20:54wanna get some offense in
20:55but he wanted to have
20:56a great match
20:56so he wanted to
20:57to bleed
20:58there are a number of
20:59ways to do it
21:00there's the hard way
21:02which is basically
21:03when you agree
21:03with your opponent
21:04that he's going to
21:05punch you in the eyebrow
21:06or the cheek
21:07or in some place
21:08to bust you open
21:09there's also
21:10the easy way
21:11you take a
21:13common razor blade
21:14something you find
21:14around the house
21:15and you trim it
21:16in a fashion
21:17that you can wrap
21:17it in some tape
21:18and then you can
21:19keep it
21:19on your wrist
21:21in your mouth
21:22in the waistband
21:22of your tights
21:23in wrestling
21:24it was a common
21:24gimmick
21:25the blade
21:26was never intended
21:28to be an
21:28exacto knife
21:30I had been getting
21:31high all day
21:32you know what I mean
21:33so I was high
21:36as f***
21:37so we told D-Von
21:39we said
21:39we gonna throw you
21:40out of the ring
21:41and don't get back in
21:42you know D-Von
21:43didn't get touched
21:45didn't get hit
21:45everything was mostly
21:47focused around Eric
21:48and it was mostly
21:50Nujak
21:50giving it to Eric
21:53I started beating
21:54on him
21:56I was beating
21:56with everything
21:59so when it came
22:00time for us
22:00to get color
22:01I had a surgical
22:02scaffold
22:03they're about that long
22:05and I had it taped
22:06to a stick
22:07so I stuck him
22:08in the forehead
22:09a couple of times
22:10and did nothing
22:11happen
22:13see I just sliced
22:14him
22:16and blew
22:16his skin out
22:18I'm sure you saw it
22:21and I beat
22:22the sh** out of the kid
22:23his father was there
22:24in the audience
22:28Mustafa picked him up
22:29and slammed him
22:31he was bleeding
22:32everywhere
22:36the referee didn't need
22:37come to the goddamn ring
22:38I'm standing there
22:40and I can see
22:41over my shoulder
22:42they need paramedics
22:43but Nujak
22:44was firing up the crowd
22:54at that point
22:56I'm like okay
22:57let's just get him out
22:58I knew
22:59we were part of history
23:01a defiant middle finger
23:03from Eric
23:03seems to suggest
23:05he's okay
23:06but everyone at ringside
23:08can see that's not the case
23:09especially
23:10his family
23:12his father
23:13trying to get in the back
23:14but I'm not going to let him
23:15get into the locker room
23:16or near Nujak
23:17did Eric's father
23:18say stuff to you?
23:19he was just calling me a nigger
23:20he was like
23:21you f***** nigger
23:22you stabbed my son
23:22you goddamn nigger
23:23you know
23:24we was off camera then
23:26and all this was off
23:27I'd have killed an old man
23:29I went backstage with him
23:31but I was like
23:32was it worth it?
23:33and he said
23:34damn man
23:34they f***** me up
23:35I was the next match
23:36so I bled
23:38like a stuck pig
23:39that night
23:40because I was trying
23:41to take a little bit
23:42of the heat
23:42off of Nujak
23:43we got an argument
23:44in the car
23:45Eric's father was like
23:46where you guys going
23:47I said
23:47oh you're f*****
23:48giving us a ride back
23:49oh no I ain't
23:50I'm not giving you
23:50a ride back
23:51I said see
23:52yes the f***** you are
23:53or we're going to be
23:54fighting again
23:55up in this f*****
23:56and you know
23:57he got in the van
23:58went to the hospital
23:59I remember him
24:00taking this f*****
24:01the bandage off
24:03in the car
24:03pulling his hair up
24:04and just looking at it
24:06in the f***** mirror
24:07Eric received
24:0850 stitches
24:09for his injuries
24:10and says he never
24:11wants to get
24:12in the ring again
24:13I have no feeling
24:14from here to here
24:16I have like an
24:17indention in my head
24:18from where all the nerves
24:19died
24:19it changed him
24:20I was depressed
24:22and all that
24:23the s*****
24:25the underground world
24:26of hardcore wrestling
24:27is exposed to
24:28unprecedented national
24:30attention
24:30as New Jack
24:32is charged with
24:33assault
24:33and battery
24:34so he took me to trial
24:36told my attorney
24:37I said
24:37are they offering me
24:38a deal
24:39he said
24:39right now
24:40they want you
24:40to do five years
24:41I was like
24:43no
24:43he said
24:44Jack
24:44I think I can
24:45beat this case
24:53the brutalization
24:54of teenage wrestler
24:56Eric Koulos
24:57has created
24:58a media frenzy
24:59and exposed
24:59the shocking world
25:01of hardcore wrestling
25:03now
25:04a court will decide
25:05if New Jack
25:06must answer
25:07for the assault
25:09with prison time
25:10did you do any of this
25:12you don't want
25:12to give your son
25:13I want to go to court
25:14now understand something
25:16it was a six jury panel
25:18one 80 year old black guy
25:20and five white women
25:22he was knowing out
25:23I was like
25:25that's my savior
25:26I'm like stay awake
25:27f*****
25:27you my savior
25:29you know
25:30what was your sort of role
25:31in the trial
25:33explaining how
25:34Eric knew
25:35what he was doing
25:36if he can wrestle with us
25:38he can wrestle
25:39with a big guy
25:40it's our view
25:41that he knew exactly
25:42what was going to happen
25:43he was prepared
25:44to go into the ring
25:45he knew about the props
25:46because I mean
25:47at that time
25:48Kulas wasn't on my side
25:49we weren't f***** friends
25:51the only person
25:52that really wanted me
25:53in this
25:53was New Jack
25:55and I said
25:56Jack it's up to you
25:57this is what I want
25:58I want work
25:59in WWE
26:00New Jack promised me
26:01if I get off tiny
26:03I swear
26:03I will take care of you
26:05they had Paulie
26:06on the stand
26:07the DA asked him
26:09what did
26:09Mr. Kulas
26:10call Jerome Young
26:12Paulie was like
26:13he called him the n-word
26:16the DA said
26:17for the record
26:18say it
26:19Paulie looked at me
26:21he said
26:21Jack I'm sorry
26:24he said
26:25he called him a nigger
26:27the old juror
26:29the black dude
26:29he sat up
26:30he was like
26:32and the white woman
26:33was like
26:35I was laughing
26:36so I
26:37I was like
26:37oh who the f*****
26:38do that
26:40he was working
26:41the f*****
26:42I mean
26:42he was working
26:43the s*****
26:43out the guy
26:44the judge
26:44the DA
26:45the f***** jurors
26:46he did what he
26:47don't do best
26:48he worked
26:48and that's what he did
26:49he was working
26:50when the jury learns
26:51Eric lied about his age
26:53and experience
26:53the balance shifts
26:55in New Jack's favor
26:57they deliberated
26:58for that day
26:59came by the next day
27:00they found me not guilty
27:03and I ended up
27:04working for WWE
27:05I ended up
27:06doing promos and s**t
27:07with Shane
27:08Big Show
27:09and Triple H
27:10yeah
27:11Stephanie McMahon's
27:12introducing me
27:13and my partner
27:13as the Twin Towers
27:15to go against The Rock
27:16what was it like
27:17for you to walk out
27:18to the crowd like that?
27:18oh f***** great dude
27:19there's me
27:21there's my partner
27:22that can do the eyebrow
27:24and this was
27:25fresh after Eric Kulas
27:26so it was like
27:28New Jack
27:28I don't know how
27:29what the hell he did
27:30but
27:31there was my spot
27:32right there
27:32do you remember
27:33how Eric Kulas passed?
27:35I didn't even know
27:36really until like
27:40years later
27:41I forgot how it went
27:42but people say
27:44yo you know
27:45Eric died
27:45after failing
27:47in criminal court
27:48Eric's family
27:49tries to sue
27:49New Jack
27:50in a civil suit
27:51for damages
27:52caused by the incident
27:53but in 2002
27:54he dies from complications
27:56resulting from
27:57gastric bypass surgery
27:59and then what was your reaction
28:00to learning that he passed away
28:02I think it was my fault
28:05I heard about it
28:06I'm like oh well
28:08I have to indict
28:09New Jack for this
28:10because he went too far
28:11but also
28:13the image of ECW
28:14allowed guys
28:15to go way too far
28:16and think that
28:17nothing would happen
28:19the mass transit incident
28:20has set a dangerous precedent
28:22and it's New Jack
28:23who has opened the door
28:24to a lawless new era
28:26New Jack started
28:27trying to go farther
28:28and farther
28:29not only with the blood
28:30and the edginess
28:31of the content
28:32but also the spectacular
28:34bumps and falls
28:35I was the only one
28:36that probably started
28:37coke in the locker room
28:38I mean it was like
28:39a boost
28:41you know what I mean
28:42it was like
28:43if I get high
28:45I can go get high
28:47and I was snorting
28:48every night
28:51once you've jumped
28:52off a 10 foot balcony
28:53what's next
28:54jump off a 15 foot balcony
28:56then a 20 foot balcony
29:02and at some point
29:03there's no way
29:04that this can end well
29:05even if you do it right
29:06yeah you have any
29:07favorite dives
29:08well the one
29:10that people always
29:11talk about
29:12me and Big Grimes
29:13imagine Humpty Dumpty
29:15with arms and legs
29:17as a professional wrestler
29:18that's kind of how
29:18he was shaped
29:19you know what I'm saying
29:20you couldn't hurt the guy
29:21Vic Grimes wanted
29:22to be run over with cars
29:24he wanted to be hit
29:24with things
29:25he thought that was
29:26what wrestling was
29:27in the year 2000
29:29Vic Grimes is booked
29:30to wrestle New Jack
29:31in a match featuring
29:32a dangerous climax
29:33when we climbed up
29:34on top of the scaffold
29:35it was shaking
29:36Vic was like
29:37I can't do it
29:38it's too hot
29:38now we're on pay-per-view
29:40there's no time for error
29:41I said Vic let's go
29:43on three
29:43he's jack
29:44I can't do it
29:45I said f*** you
29:45we're going on three
29:47I said one two three
29:48and I pulled him
29:50he did this flip
29:51and his back
29:53landed up against
29:53the side of my head
29:55and I cracked my skull
29:56I never recovered
29:58from that
29:58I broke my leg
29:59I lost my sight
30:01in my right eye
30:01to this day
30:03I get headaches
30:04every day
30:05and I have insomnia
30:06because I cracked my skull
30:09Vic
30:09so this is all your fault
30:11you dumb
30:12that's one of Jack's rules
30:13don't say you're going to do something
30:14and get up there
30:15and chicken out
30:16Jack's kind of guy
30:17that if you
30:18you break those rules
30:19well then
30:20he'll probably break you
30:27a year after the horrific fall
30:29that cracked open his skull
30:31New Jack agrees to a rematch
30:33with Vic Grimes
30:34with even higher stakes
30:35what Grimes doesn't know
30:37is that New Jack
30:38is out for revenge
30:40before the match
30:41I went to a pawn shop
30:42and bought a stun gun
30:44yeah I was there
30:45with New Jack
30:46and he told me
30:47he was going to do it
30:47before it happened
30:48too so
30:49what did he want
30:49to have happen
30:50he told me
30:51he was going to
30:51taste some
30:53in the locker room
30:54in the locker room
30:54he came up to me
30:55I was ready to kill the
30:57he said I'm sorry
30:59I said
31:00you didn't even call me
31:02I said
31:03I was going to go for almost a year
31:04I said you didn't even call me
31:05to see how the
31:06I was doing
31:08this is the highest elevation
31:11of any match
31:12in the history
31:13of our sport
31:15I mean I was high
31:18you know what I mean
31:19I was high as
31:20so I just tased it
31:22I tased the shit out of it
31:23I said you ain't gonna need them
31:27bombs away
31:35Vic was afoot
31:36for missing the ring
31:37completely
31:37which would have killed him
31:39I wanted him to hit the floor
31:40I just didn't throw him
31:41hard enough
31:42I was trying to throw his ass
31:43to the f***ing throat
31:45so we don't piss Jack off
31:46because a fight's never over
31:48until Jack says it's over
31:49I can't believe he didn't like die
31:50it's the luck of fools
31:52that this guy was not
31:53at least paralyzed
31:54and I don't think Jack
31:56was particularly broken up
31:57about it
31:57I clammed down
31:59off of the f***ing devil
32:00and I went up to him
32:00and when he was laying in the ring
32:02I told him I said
32:03now we even you f***ing
32:04Vic Grimes is gonna need
32:05medical attention
32:06could you have got him
32:07for attempted murder?
32:08I don't know
32:10I mean I think
32:11throwing some off the scaffolding
32:12kinda is right on that line
32:14Incredibly Grimes' worst injury
32:16is a dislocated ankle
32:18once again
32:19New Jack has pushed
32:20hardcore beyond his limits
32:22but the demand
32:23for this kind of extreme action
32:25is only getting more intense
32:27and now
32:29he's having to compete
32:30against a new generation
32:31of hardcore wrestlers
32:33willing to give
32:35and receive
32:36disturbing levels of punishment
32:39so it became a one-upsmanship
32:41and can you top this
32:43and got into a position
32:44where you had to go further
32:45and further
32:46to keep that position
32:47and then it became
32:48his calling card
32:50would you think
32:50there was ever a match
32:51where you think
32:52you went too far?
32:52well I can name a few of them
32:54but I would say
32:56probably Gypsy Joe
32:59oh lord
33:02hold on
33:03I looked at how old he was
33:05but then I forgot
33:06when we got in the ring
33:09in 2003
33:10New Jack faces off
33:12against 72-year-old journeyman
33:14Gypsy Joe
33:15who promotes himself
33:16as a man impervious to pain
33:18the problem
33:19is no one's bothered
33:21to tell New Jack
33:22the promoter was thinking
33:24oh this is going to be
33:25the today's hardcore icon
33:27and the old pro
33:29from yesteryear
33:30that everybody knows
33:30is tougher than a $2 steak
33:32so the night of the show
33:33Joe comes up
33:35he said
33:36just listen to me kid
33:37I can teach you a lot
33:38I said you talking to me?
33:40we didn't talk no more
33:42I went to the ring
33:44Joe comes to the ring
33:45and Gypsy Joe
33:47as per his gimmick
33:48wasn't selling
33:50New Jack stuff
33:51because you really
33:52have to hit Joe
33:53to make him go down
33:55and register
33:55because he's so tough
33:56so then
33:58I got
33:58he listens to these fans
33:59go home nigger
34:02nigger
34:02and then
34:03I was pissed
34:05I started beating Joe
34:06like he had
34:06owe me money
34:07I beat the shit out of him
34:09outside the ring
34:10I got a bat
34:12I had a ball
34:13I wrapped around him
34:18hit him in the head
34:18three times
34:21Jack just said
34:21this old man
34:23I threw a roll of chairs
34:24on him
34:25and he got louder
34:26go home nigger
34:27you nigger
34:28and dude
34:29the more they said
34:30the more pissed off
34:30I got
34:34and I beat the shit
34:35out of a hundred year old man
34:37wish the match
34:38never should have happened
34:39in the first place
34:41with New Jack's
34:42escalating violence
34:43comes a higher level
34:44of risk
34:44and not just for those
34:46willing to take him on
34:47was New Jack
34:48you think a liability
34:49for promoters
34:50I think some people
34:51look at him
34:51as a liability
34:52but yes
34:54some promoters
34:54would yeah
34:55absolutely
34:56New Jack never made it
34:57to the WWE
34:58because they were never
34:59going to touch him
35:00because he was
35:01too controversial
35:02they were afraid
35:03of lawsuits
35:04they were afraid
35:05of bad publicity
35:06they were afraid
35:06he was going to hurt
35:07somebody
35:08with the mainstream
35:09appeal of hardcore
35:10now in decline
35:11New Jack has resigned
35:12to working for much
35:13smaller outfits
35:14in the independent circuit
35:15some of whom
35:17can barely muster
35:18a crowd
35:19despite this
35:20New Jack isn't
35:21slowing down
35:22and he crosses
35:23the line again
35:24in 2004
35:25I've had many
35:28trials in my life
35:34yet I keep trying
35:36to do what's right
35:39we bonded
35:41really really well
35:43I'm an MWW
35:44independent recording
35:45artist now
35:46but I was a wrestler
35:47slash promoter
35:49when he hit Florida
35:51and he had to come
35:52through Jacksonville
35:53he was staying
35:53at my house
35:54Jack is comical
35:56if you really ever
35:57get to know him
35:57he's just a comedian
35:59and a great cook
36:01any examples
36:02of like
36:02what are the things
36:03he would cook
36:03spaghetti
36:04but he enjoys
36:06making sure
36:07that everybody's happy
36:08out of the fire
36:13that's one of mine
36:14the federation
36:15that I used to
36:16own and promote
36:17was Thunder
36:18Wrestling Federation
36:19Thunder has started
36:20gaining some momentum
36:21and Jack had been
36:23there a couple of times
36:24New Jack's opponent
36:26is William Jason Lane
36:27wrestling under the name
36:29Hunter Redd
36:30that night
36:31Redd had asked me
36:32if he could wrestle Jack
36:34when you wrestle an icon
36:36it kind of moves you
36:37a little bit
36:38it's on your resume
36:40and I said
36:40well Redd
36:42that's a whole
36:43different ballgame
36:45Hunter Redd comes up
36:46and he's like
36:47what you wanna do
36:48I said dude
36:49we'll go in the back
36:49and talk about this
36:50he said well
36:50we can talk about it now
36:51I said no
36:52we'll go in the back
36:54and talk about it
36:55so I laid it out
36:57I said well
36:57this is what we gonna do
36:59and in the middle
37:00of me talking
37:00he got up
37:01he said
37:01alright whatever
37:02what the f***
37:02whatever the f***
37:03f*** it
37:04I'm looking around
37:05like what the f***
37:07I said who put him
37:08up to this
37:09I said I will see you
37:10in the ring
37:11what the f***
37:12ever we do
37:13I'll just what
37:14whatever
37:15something was troubling
37:16Redd
37:16the actual
37:17reality of wrestling
37:19New Jack
37:21I think
37:22it kind of set in
37:23once again
37:24I just don't cope
37:25once again
37:26I was high as a m***
37:28drinking vodka
37:29like I'm doing now
37:31and
37:32I had a claw
37:33a Wolverine claw
37:35they had the three
37:36blades on it
37:37one of the blades
37:38that broke off
37:39they had it in my pocket
37:41when the match began
37:43Redd picked New Jack up
37:44and sat him in a corner
37:45and he punched me
37:49my nose is big enough
37:50I don't need nobody
37:50to help me get
37:51the f*** bigger
37:52then he punched me again
37:54in the nose
37:56it looks like this guy
37:56is really hitting Jack hard
37:58and then Jack
37:58yeah
37:59the way Jack moves
38:00across his ring
38:00now he's hooking him
38:02and he's talking to him
38:03I said you trying
38:04to handle me
38:05I said you really
38:06trying to handle me
38:07uh oh
38:08Jack's reaching
38:09in his pocket
38:10for something
38:10he's cutting him
38:11what the
38:12what oh my
38:13he's stabbing
38:14this m***
38:14run
38:16oh s***
38:17ew
38:23it's never good
38:24when you open
38:25a wrestling video
38:25with a shot of a stage
38:26in an empty bandstand
38:28oh good lord
38:30what is there
38:3130 people there
38:33so the guy comes
38:34in the ring
38:34they lock up
38:35okay already
38:36he's pissing
38:37New Jack off
38:38and he pulled
38:39a knife out of his
38:41f*** pants
38:42and is now apparently
38:43stabbing this guy
38:44who's trying to get away
38:46what the f***
38:47is going on here
38:48but is he actually
38:49stabbing this f*** guy
38:50look at that woman
38:51with her hand over her mouth
38:53and the kid
38:53the 10 year old kid
38:55is sitting there going
38:56this is a first
38:57in 125 years
38:59of wrestling history
39:00yeah this is not
39:02something that does
39:02the public image
39:03of professional wrestling
39:04a world of good
39:06the line in wrestling
39:08between cooperation
39:09and felonious assault
39:11is also one of those lines
39:12that's blurred
39:13but I always looked at it
39:14this way
39:15if two guys agree
39:17to something beforehand
39:19and everything that happens
39:21happens in those parameters
39:22they are working together
39:24if something happens
39:25that is egregiously
39:26outside those parameters
39:28such as
39:29just take a knife
39:30and just slash
39:31a guy's face
39:32that's crossed the line
39:33from cooperation
39:34to felonious assault
39:35I stuck him like 9 times
39:38on the news
39:39they said 16
39:40I said no it was 9
39:42I counted it was 9
39:44for the second time
39:46in his career
39:46New Jack's violence
39:48in the ring
39:48lands him in trouble
39:49with the law
39:50and the evidence
39:51against him
39:51is impossible to ignore
39:53the guy that called
39:54the cops
39:55he said there's been
39:56a stabbing
39:57at the Ramada Inn
39:59there's a black guy
40:00with camouflage on
40:01stabbing a white guy
40:03so that's how
40:04they treated it
40:05the cops came in
40:07gun drawn
40:08get on the floor
40:09I remember the police
40:11office asking Jack
40:12why do you hate
40:13white people
40:13and I just looked at him
40:15but I thought
40:16that was really
40:16inappropriate
40:17they put red
40:18on a stretcher
40:19and Jack left
40:21in a police car
40:22New Jack is charged
40:24with aggravated battery
40:25and faces up to 15 years
40:28in a Florida prison
40:30they took me to jail
40:31Hunter Red
40:33come up to jail
40:34I'm like
40:35why are you here
40:35he said
40:36I got an idea
40:37I'll drop the charges
40:38you take me on the road
40:40and we can make
40:41an angle out of this
40:42Hunter Red
40:43is looking for New Jack
40:45he's out for revenge
40:46he said
40:47we can do the whole
40:48Florida circuit
40:48I said
40:49well you gotta drop
40:50the charges first
40:51I sat in jail
40:52for three weeks
40:54he went
40:55and dropped the charges
40:56I went home
40:58put my shit in storage
40:59and I left Florida
41:01that was the last time
41:02I talked to him
41:04I mean it was on the news
41:05and my mom saw it
41:07and she was like
41:07oh my god
41:08I can't believe you
41:09went there
41:10and you stabbed somebody
41:10in the ring
41:11you should be ashamed of yourself
41:12I'm like
41:13bitch it was a show
41:14what the f***
41:15leave me alone
41:16you know what I mean
41:17cause me and my mom
41:18we never got alone
41:18she didn't f*** back me
41:20when I was wrestling
41:22only bitch
41:22I got action figures
41:23in Toys R Us
41:24how many of your f***ing
41:26friends and son
41:27got action figures
41:28in Toys R Us
41:29my dad died
41:30when I was five
41:32he died when I was five
41:33but I remember
41:35the f***ing
41:35of s*** he did
41:36before he died
41:38and I'm like
41:38you wonder why
41:39sometimes
41:40I flip the f*** out
41:43because I was raised
41:44in a family
41:45that was f***ing retarded
41:47so I'm like
41:48if I show up for a show
41:50and I go out there
41:51and do my thing
41:52be grateful
41:53that I ain't attacking
41:54your a**
41:54you know what I mean
41:58the thing with Jack is
41:59he was too much
42:00into his gimmick
42:01he carried that
42:02wherever the f***
42:03he was at
42:04there wasn't no
42:04Jerome Young
42:05it was just New Jack
42:06New Jack can't benefit
42:09from any of this
42:10reputation
42:11he's got anymore
42:11because he's
42:12pretty much
42:13his active career
42:14is over with
42:15so I think now
42:15it's more of an albatross
42:16around his neck
42:17I was New Jack
42:18when I came in the door
42:19and I'm still New Jack
42:22and so then
42:23who is Jerome Young?
42:26that's a difficult question
42:27because the line is blurred
42:28between Jerome Young
42:29and New Jack
42:29if there's a difference
42:31I don't know
42:32because I don't know
42:33if I ever met Jerome Young
42:34I don't think
42:35I wanted to know for sure
42:36because here was a guy
42:37that I could even
42:38halfway believe in
42:39the best part about it
42:40is the legend
42:41believe it or not
42:42it's probably going to be
42:43bigger than the person
42:45you know what I'm saying
42:46how stories get
42:47the details get taller
42:48and taller
42:48and bigger and better
42:49as the time goes
42:51he perfected his craft
42:53and brought it to the highest level
42:55that he could bring it to
42:57because he knew
42:57it would leave a lasting impression
43:01New Jack leaves behind
43:03a complicated legacy
43:05pioneering
43:07unrepentant
43:07but above all
43:09without compromise
43:10I don't need nobody out here
43:12cheering for me
43:13and most of all
43:14partner
43:14I don't need you
43:15I believe people like that
43:17shouldn't get away with it
43:18you know
43:19New Jack ain't gonna probably like
43:20what the f*** I'm saying about
43:22f*** you man
43:23you know what you did
43:24you f*** up
43:26innocent people
43:27Eric Koulos' family
43:29declined to participate
43:30in this documentary
43:31stating it was too traumatic
43:33to revisit the circumstances
43:34and aftermath of the incident
43:36in Revere, Massachusetts
43:39let's say one day
43:40they decide to like
43:41make a movie
43:42about your life
43:43what would be the end
43:44of the new Jack movie
43:46I'm sitting in a wheelchair
43:49snorting coke
43:55I'm just sitting there
43:56snorting coke
43:57just getting high as a f***
43:58and it'd be like
43:59the end
43:59I'd be like
44:00thank you bitches
44:01ha ha
44:02ha
44:03ha
44:03ha
44:03ha
44:04ha
44:04ha
44:04ha
44:04ha
44:05ha
44:05ha
44:05ha
44:05ha
44:06Amén.
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