Piers Morgan Uncensored - Season 4 Episode 230 - Season 4 Episode 230 - video Dailymotion

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Transcript

00:00:00We're on the march.

00:00:01We're walking up towards Trafalgar Square.

00:00:03The crowd spoke.

00:00:05This is the biggest event in British history.

00:00:07Do you have a vendetta against Tommy Robinson?

00:00:10Because the last time he was on your show,

00:00:11he gave you a shellacking, and you've never forgiven him for him.

00:00:14What happens all the time with anti-Muslim hatred is projection.

00:00:17I'm not anti-Muslim.

00:00:19Hold on, hold on, hold on, shut up.

00:00:22Hey, Bigot, shut up.

00:00:23Shut your mouth, OK?

00:00:25Do you have sympathy for the young English girls

00:00:27that have been assaulted?

00:00:28Do you have sympathy?

00:00:29Sorry.

00:00:30Oh, so now you're stuttering.

00:00:32Now you're stuttering.

00:00:33So you've just exposed yourself.

00:00:35Do you know what?

00:00:35I have a no-stupid-people rule for this show.

00:00:38The way you started this panel and the way you've ended it

00:00:41suggests that you shouldn't have passed our path.

00:00:45Later on the show, we will debate Israel's threat to sue the New York Times

00:00:48and claims of an Israeli plot to hijack voting at the Eurovision Song Contest.

00:00:51We'll begin with the competing rallies held this weekend in London.

00:00:55Tommy Robinson's Unite the Kingdom march has captured the imaginations

00:00:58of many conservatives around the world, not least among the US right wing.

00:01:02And imagination is certainly the word I would use for it.

00:01:05Millions of people have seen this image over the last 48 hours,

00:01:08alongside claims that half the country turned out for Tommy.

00:01:12It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that's not London.

00:01:15In fact, that's not even a real photograph.

00:01:18The police say about 50,000 attended and despite the usual cries of conspiracy,

00:01:23there's no evidence or reason to think that they're lying.

00:01:26Tommy Robinson, on the other hand, is either lying or just very bad at mass.

00:01:31We're on the march. We're walking up towards Trafalgar Square.

00:01:34The crowd's gone. Parliament Square's already full.

00:01:38The crowd's stretched from here to Euston Station apparently, which is miles.

00:01:43OK?

00:01:44And miles, this is the biggest event in British history.

00:01:47This is the moment, a turning point for Britain.

00:01:49We'll give you a message to the leaders.

00:01:51And we will not know that about a fight.

00:01:52And we will not know that about a fight.

00:01:53And we will not know that about a fight.

00:01:53And we'll be able to open it up. We're awake.

00:01:56And we're not going to back down.

00:01:57We want our country back.

00:01:59We want our country back.

00:02:00What I'd like is some accuracy back.

00:02:03This wasn't the biggest event in British history.

00:02:05It wasn't even the biggest event in London this weekend,

00:02:08given that 84,000 people attended the FA Cup final at Wembley.

00:02:12And there was some equally creative accounting going on a mile away

00:02:15at the rival march in support of Palestine.

00:02:17MP Zahra Sultana said she was proud to join 250,000 people at the NACBA rally,

00:02:24which police say was in fact attended by 20,000 people.

00:02:28To be clear, this doesn't mean that tens of thousands of people attended the rallies.

00:02:33They did.

00:02:34It just doesn't mean that their views should be exaggerated in such a ridiculous manner.

00:02:40Their opinions are valid, and I respect them.

00:02:44Most people in this country, I think, are a moderate, tolerant, and open-minded group of people.

00:02:49Certainly more than you may have been led to believe.

00:02:51The rally also showed that Tommy Robinson's onto something when he talks about two-tier policing.

00:02:55He just hasn't quite figured out what it is yet.

00:03:15It's not too late to get Islam out of that building.

00:03:22It is not too late to get Islam out of every single official office in this country.

00:03:30If the speakers and performers at the pro-Palestine rally had made similar speeches about Jews

00:03:35that had been arrested amid a national outcry,

00:03:37and for the record, they would have deserved it.

00:03:39Before we debate all of this, I want to finish with a point we could probably all agree on.

00:03:45It's a billion soldiers!

00:03:56Kaboom!

00:03:56And you'll never walk alone

00:04:09You'll never walk alone

00:04:22Finally, Tommy Robinson and me agree about something, cutting that monstrosity off before it could finish.

00:04:28And to be fair to him, he has united the kingdom in condemning what we just heard as possibly,

00:04:34and I speak as a former judge on Britain's Got Talent,

00:04:37the least talented singing we've ever heard on these aisles.

00:04:41Well, joining me now are Cenk Yuga, the founder and CEO of The Young Turks,

00:04:44and a prominent critic of online Islamophobia.

00:04:46Don Keith, host of the Real Beef podcast, who was barred from entering the UK to attend the rally.

00:04:51Ava Santina, political editor at Politics Show,

00:04:54and Sintish, better known as Based and Bougie, who attended the Unite the Kingdom rally,

00:04:58and called me out on stage.

00:05:00And we'll get to that in a moment.

00:05:01Let's get to that off the start, because it was brought to my attention.

00:05:05Welcome to Uncensored, Sintish.

00:05:08Thank you so much.

00:05:08Do I call you Sintish or Based and Bougie?

00:05:09You call me Sintish or Based.

00:05:11Or Bougie?

00:05:12Based, Bougie, Sintish, whatever.

00:05:13Any one of the three?

00:05:14Yeah.

00:05:14What's your actual name?

00:05:15Sintish.

00:05:16That's your name you were born with?

00:05:17Yeah, that's my name, Sintish, yeah.

00:05:18But Based and Bougie is your...?

00:05:20It's just the name that I use for my account, yeah.

00:05:22Got it. So you talked about me during this event.

00:05:26Let's have a look.

00:05:28You're seeing people in solitary confinement for a difference of opinion,

00:05:31and now you're seeing people like the likes of Piers Morgan

00:05:34calling us the same old boring far right for being patriotic.

00:05:38Well, I have a question for Piers Morgan.

00:05:41If this is a far right, racist, extremist event, then what the f*** am I doing here?

00:05:51The establishment of Piers Morgan and Keir Starmer need to learn that us patriots are this country's last hope.

00:05:59And rather than waking up to this fact, they would rather sit there and police when and where the English

00:06:05people wear the English flag.

00:06:07Let me make something very clear.

00:06:09If seeing the Union Jack makes you crush, respectfully pack your bags and get lost.

00:06:17Support the country you live in or go live in the country you support.

00:06:22Dish, obviously I fully respect your right to free speech.

00:06:26What is the Union Jack, do you think?

00:06:29For me, the Union Jack is a sign of first and foremost...

00:06:31No, what is it? Whose flag is the Union Jack?

00:06:33The British flag.

00:06:34Hmm?

00:06:35The British flag.

00:06:36You said English flag, then?

00:06:37The English, no. The Union Jack is the British flag.

00:06:39Why did you say English flag?

00:06:42Obviously, when you're under pressure, you end up saying things, but it is the British flag.

00:06:45You don't think England is United Kingdom?

00:06:47No, I'm just saying that it's the British flag.

00:06:48The Union Jack obviously represents...

00:06:49I know the difference between the two, but what we're discussing here today...

00:06:51What is the English flag, do you know?

00:06:53It's this flag with the Red Cross.

00:06:55Right, but that wasn't the one behind you and that wasn't the one you were talking about.

00:06:57Okay, congratulations, you caught me here.

00:06:59Well, no, I'm trying to take gotcha.

00:07:00I'm just saying, if you're going to start...

00:07:01When you're under pressure, you end up saying things.

00:07:04Especially when there's millions of people, you get a little bit nervous.

00:07:08Millions of people.

00:07:08If you're going to start haranguing people like me for not understanding what it means to be English,

00:07:13it would help if you understood what the English flag actually is.

00:07:16Oh, you caught me.

00:07:18Do you want to apologise?

00:07:19No, I'm not going to apologise, because I was under pressure.

00:07:21It was a crowd full of millions of people, even though you tried to downplay it.

00:07:24Millions of people? Yes, millions.

00:07:2550,000 people were there, the police said.

00:07:27The police said there was 1.2 million.

00:07:28No, the police said 50,000.

00:07:30Okay, even if it was 1.2...

00:07:32Why are you lying about the number of people there?

00:07:34Why would I lie? That's what I saw.

00:07:35The police confirmed there were 50,000 people.

00:07:38Okay, but Piers, why...

00:07:39Are they all lying?

00:07:40Okay, but Piers, of all the issues...

00:07:43It's all the issues they were talking about, whether it's women being raped,

00:07:45whether it's 2.2 million people were there.

00:07:47Whether it's all the issues they were talking about, women being groomed,

00:07:49the only thing you're obsessed about is the numbers.

00:07:51Are you being serious?

00:07:52Do you know what I saw?

00:07:53There was...

00:07:54Talking of the treatment of women's symptoms,

00:07:56you know one of the clips that I saw that was doing the rounds from the rally?

00:07:59Show me.

00:07:59It was where some women were looking down from a rooftop down at the rally,

00:08:05and a lot of the people marching in the rally, men, chanting,

00:08:09get your tits out for the lads, and thought that was hilarious.

00:08:12How does that square, do you think, with protecting women?

00:08:16Well, I obviously think that's absolutely disgusting,

00:08:18and if Tommy Robinson or all of the organisers were to see that,

00:08:21they would be absolutely disgusting.

00:08:23But you bringing that up, what's the point?

00:08:24Because there's so many people under your comment section

00:08:26who may look at me and they may call me the N-word or the B-word.

00:08:29Is that a reflection of you, may I ask?

00:08:31There are people calling you the N-word on my comment section.

00:08:33There may be people.

00:08:34Wait, wait, have you just made that up?

00:08:35I said there may, may.

00:08:36You haven't even appeared on my show.

00:08:37I said there may be, there may be.

00:08:39And they do it with other guests as well.

00:08:40You haven't even appeared on my show.

00:08:41Okay, well, they may do it with other guests as well.

00:08:43They may insult other of your guests.

00:08:45What I'm saying is after this...

00:08:46Have you actually looked at the comment section?

00:08:47Yes, I have.

00:08:48Well, who are you talking about?

00:08:49Can you let me finish my sentence?

00:08:50What am I here for if you're not letting me finish my sentence?

00:08:52I think you're just making stuff up.

00:08:53What I'm trying to say is when you go on your comment section,

00:08:56of course people say negative things.

00:08:57Is that a reflection of you?

00:08:58Have you ever seen anyone be called the N-word on my comment section?

00:09:01What I'm saying is people say negative things.

00:09:04Have you?

00:09:04People say negative things.

00:09:05Have you seen it?

00:09:06Let's put the N-word aside.

00:09:07People say negative things.

00:09:08Is that a reflection of you?

00:09:10You haven't.

00:09:10You didn't answer my question.

00:09:11Is that a reflection of you?

00:09:12So far, we've established...

00:09:13You didn't answer my question.

00:09:14I don't know who you...

00:09:15Until you came today, I had no idea who you are, right?

00:09:18Okay, great.

00:09:18I'm very happy to have you here.

00:09:20I absolutely respect your right to be on this march.

00:09:22Thank you so much.

00:09:22Not a problem.

00:09:23Thank you so much.

00:09:24I respect the right of everyone to protest peacefully.

00:09:26Thank you so much.

00:09:26And actually, both marches went off relatively peacefully with a small handful of arrests.

00:09:30I commend the police for excellent work and I commend the marches for not being violent.

00:09:36Okay?

00:09:37Thank you so much.

00:09:37She didn't have to come to that, but I do.

00:09:38But so far, you've only been on the show three minutes.

00:09:41And so far, we've established that you got the flag wrong.

00:09:44Okay.

00:09:44Right?

00:09:44When you were lecturing me about what it takes to be English.

00:09:46Under pressure with millions of people.

00:09:48You said there were 1.2 million people when the police said there were 50,000.

00:09:50Who cares?

00:09:51Right?

00:09:51And then you start accusing us of having black people accused of being the N-word on

00:09:56my comment section.

00:09:56And then admit you've never actually seen that.

00:09:58I will find it and I will post it.

00:09:59But what I'm trying to say is a reflection of you.

00:10:02No disrespect to you.

00:10:03It's a negative comment.

00:10:04It's a reflection of you.

00:10:05The same way people are asking those young labels.

00:10:06You don't even know what comments you're talking about.

00:10:08I have seen the comments.

00:10:09They've said nasty things.

00:10:10Give me one.

00:10:11About Andrew Tate.

00:10:12About Candace Owens.

00:10:13They were called Candace Owens a Jew hater.

00:10:16They were called Andrew Tate misogynistic.

00:10:18Is that a reflection of you?

00:10:20What's your point?

00:10:20So don't point that at Tommy.

00:10:21My point is, just because negative things happen at an event filled with millions,

00:10:25don't now point that at Tommy.

00:10:27And this is what I mean.

00:10:28You've come here to nitpick at the most silliest things,

00:10:30even though I was talking about very important things like women who have been groomed,

00:10:34like men who have been stabbed by Islamists.

00:10:36And then you come here to talk to me about flipping 50,000 people.

00:10:40And when I said the English flag and British flag,

00:10:43this is absolutely irrelevant to the whole point of the event.

00:10:46So what are we actually talking about today, Piers?

00:10:48Can we talk about something important rather than nitpicking on the number of people?

00:10:50Do you know what I'm going to talk about?

00:10:52Why don't we talk about Tommy Robinson's claim that it was the biggest event in British history?

00:10:55Do you believe that?

00:10:56I think it was.

00:10:57Last year it definitely was.

00:10:58Bigger than the signing of the Magna Carta,

00:11:00the Act of the Union,

00:11:02the Industrial Revolution,

00:11:04the Battle of Britain.

00:11:05Bigger than Brexit, for example.

00:11:06I don't think he even said that.

00:11:08Why are you comparing it to that?

00:11:09He literally just said it in the clip we played five minutes ago.

00:11:11Okay.

00:11:12Well, I think it was an excellent event.

00:11:13It was a huge event.

00:11:14I was there present myself.

00:11:15Was it the biggest event in British history?

00:11:17It wasn't the biggest event.

00:11:1850,000 people.

00:11:18It wasn't.

00:11:19It wasn't the biggest event in British history.

00:11:20Now we're getting somewhere.

00:11:21That's absurd.

00:11:22That's absurd.

00:11:23I agree.

00:11:24Yes, we finally found something to do.

00:11:26This is great.

00:11:26We're getting somewhere.

00:11:27We're getting somewhere.

00:11:28By the end of this, you'll be denouncing Tommy Robinson as a fantasist.

00:11:32Absolutely not.

00:11:33Let me bring in Ava here.

00:11:34Welcome back to Uncensored.

00:11:36You know, in a way, I have a view about all these marches that if they are inciting hatred,

00:11:43and you can see clear evidence of that, I think that's unacceptable.

00:11:47If they're not, just because we don't particularly agree with people's politics or their views

00:11:52or don't like the look of them, to me, in a democracy, if you're protesting peacefully, that's fine by me.

00:11:59I think you and I have discussed this, and you didn't dissent from that.

00:12:02I'm pro-march.

00:12:03Did you see anything at the weekend in either march that you felt crossed the line?

00:12:07Well, I was quite alarmed at some of the anti-Semitic theories that were circulating that march.

00:12:13And, you know, as with all marches, they're not going to be all 50,000 people saying those things.

00:12:18It is going to be people on the fringes.

00:12:20But I was deeply concerned about this idea that was widely being talked about,

00:12:24that Jews were moving Muslims into the United Kingdom to destabilize the government.

00:12:30And this was more than, you know, 10 or 11 people saying this.

00:12:34This was circulating. That deeply concerns me.

00:12:37Another thing that concerns me is that under the guise of other political movements,

00:12:42Tommy Robinson has managed to sort of launder his reputation with the British National Party, the BNP,

00:12:49which believed in ethnic nationalism.

00:12:51He would not have wanted any person of colour if he believed in what the BNP did at that time,

00:12:56at that march.

00:12:58And what scares me is that this is just the beginning.

00:13:00It's get everyone on side.

00:13:02What's going to happen next?

00:13:04I mean, does that not worry you that he was in the BNP?

00:13:07Does that not scare you?

00:13:08So why did he leave the BNP?

00:13:10Why did he stop supporting you?

00:13:11Well, the BNP disbanded.

00:13:12It stopped becoming a political force.

00:13:14It stopped being a political force.

00:13:15Well, from my understanding of Tommy Robinson, he left the BNP.

00:13:18He left the EDL because of these racist rhetorics.

00:13:21For example, there's a new party could Restore Britain.

00:13:23After Restore Britain launched,

00:13:25there was a lot of people that were being extremely racist towards people like myself.

00:13:29And Tommy Robinson actually recently came out and made a video saying that

00:13:32Rupert Lowe needs to actually sort this out and stop the racism.

00:13:35So I'm quite confused to how you're still here trying to be so desperate to...

00:13:39But when you have...

00:13:40Can I come back?

00:13:41You can, you can.

00:13:41May I just say...

00:13:42We saw the Africans also singing at the event.

00:13:44We saw so many Sikhs.

00:13:45And you're still trying to sit here and say he was racist?

00:13:48You still think he's racist?

00:13:49Well, I didn't say that he was racist.

00:13:50I said that he was part of the BNP that believed in ethnic nationalism.

00:13:54In the past.

00:13:54So it surprises me.

00:13:55But can you really repent for something like that?

00:13:58Yes, you can.

00:13:59You know, I would...

00:13:59I don't even think...

00:14:00Did you know during the EDL, he had a sign that said black and white unite?

00:14:05And he also had the Sikh division.

00:14:06He had the black...

00:14:08He had the LGBTQ.

00:14:09In the EDL.

00:14:09During the EDL.

00:14:10The evidence is there.

00:14:11So I'm not really sure why you don't talk about that.

00:14:13Where's the line drawn?

00:14:14Because is it the one drop rule?

00:14:15Or is it like if you've been in Britain for a certain number of generations, then are you considered British

00:14:21in their eyes?

00:14:21What concerns me is what are the parameters of race that is acceptable for someone who may have been in

00:14:27the BNP, who may have been in the EDL?

00:14:29Where do you draw the line?

00:14:30Well, if you actually took the time to actually look at Tommy Robinson's tweets rather than listening to the mainstream

00:14:34media that nobody cares about...

00:14:36Let me finish.

00:14:37Let me finish.

00:14:38Let me finish.

00:14:38Sorry, let me finish.

00:14:40If you actually took the time, you would see that Tommy Robinson has actually been getting so much backlash.

00:14:46So much backlash.

00:14:47All he does on his social media, when he's not calling me a giant sausage, all he does on social

00:14:53media is bash Muslims and Islam.

00:14:56That's his shtick.

00:14:57He doesn't bash Muslims.

00:14:59He literally had people on stage saying, get rid of all Islam from Britain.

00:15:03That means kicking every Muslim out.

00:15:04From parliament.

00:15:05He never said from Britain.

00:15:07He said from parliament.

00:15:08The women said parliament.

00:15:09There were speakers saying, get rid of Islam from this country.

00:15:11Well, if you're referring to the women, she said parliament, and this is a Christian country, so there should be

00:15:15Christians in there.

00:15:15So let me ask you.

00:15:16There are five million Muslims in this country.

00:15:19Yes.

00:15:19Should they be allowed to stay?

00:15:20Of course they can, as long as they abide by Christian customs and don't force their religion on us.

00:15:24The same way if I go to Dubai, I would not force my Christian values onto the Muslims there.

00:15:28So when you had a guy called Ryan Williams performing with bacon on his shoulders,

00:15:31and his ex-account said, my mission is to inflict maximum damage on Islam.

00:15:36We've got a picture over here.

00:15:38What do you feel about that?

00:15:39I personally feel as though he should be free to do whatever he wants,

00:15:42and you have to be very fragile to get upset about someone putting bacon on a t-shirt.

00:15:46Do you drink in Dubai?

00:15:48Do you drink when you go to Dubai?

00:15:49I've never been to Dubai, but if I was to, I wouldn't drink because I respect people's customs.

00:15:52You wouldn't drink?

00:15:52Would you wear a bikini?

00:15:53No, I wouldn't.

00:15:54What would you wear if you went to Dubai?

00:15:55Well, let me go to the only Muslim member of the panel today, which is Cenk Yuga.

00:16:01Cenk, welcome back to Uncensored.

00:16:02I mean, you've got a guy there on stage with bacon on his shoulder

00:16:06who says his mission is to inflict maximum damage on Islam.

00:16:10And there was constant anti-Islam, anti-Muslim rhetoric during this rally.

00:16:17And if you look at Tommy Robinson's social media feed, it is a relentless attack specifically against Islam and Muslims.

00:16:26He pretends he's not anti-Muslim, but he constantly attacks the religion of Islam.

00:16:32Not Muslims, Islam.

00:16:32So what's your view of this, Cenk?

00:16:33It's not Muslims, it's just Islam.

00:16:35Yeah.

00:16:37So, look, I view it in two different ways.

00:16:41And I grew up Muslim, but I'm atheist now.

00:16:43So, you know, I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to speak effectively enough for Muslims.

00:16:48But like the bacon on the shoulder and the burqa skit, I don't care about at all.

00:16:53So, oh, wow, you showed a piece of bacon.

00:16:56It's not like Muslims don't know bacon exists.

00:16:58So I'm not offended by that at all.

00:17:01On the other hand, when they start talking about kicking out Muslims from even from parliament, why?

00:17:05Why should Muslims not serve in parliament?

00:17:07Well, that's obviously and directly racist and bigoted.

00:17:11So and to me, the biggest problems appears are the hypocrisy.

00:17:16You're right.

00:17:17Of course, if they said one percent of this about Jews, they'd probably literally be imprisoned in Britain.

00:17:22And it shows you the disparity in power that the two different groups have.

00:17:26And most importantly, a lot of this hatred toward Muslims are driven by Israeli propaganda.

00:17:31They want the British and the Americans to hate Muslims so that they'll finance the wars against Israel's Muslim neighbors.

00:17:39So those are massive problems.

00:17:41And we've got to root out the people that are in our government, in our media that serve foreign countries

00:17:46like Israel and purposely spread bigotry and hatred.

00:17:50Silly skits about bacon I could care less about.

00:17:52And by the way, if we have the same rules, they're allowed to offend Muslims, but we're also allowed to

00:17:57offend Israel.

00:17:57Great.

00:17:58But I'm coming to London in a couple of weeks, as you know, peers, and I intend to greatly offend

00:18:04Israel.

00:18:04I don't know if I'll be arrested over there.

00:18:06You know, they have some absurd laws in England.

00:18:08My nephew, Hassan Piker, is coming with me and he might be arrested because some pro-Israel people think that

00:18:15they can say anything they want about Muslims.

00:18:17But the minute you touch Israel, not even Judaism, they think you should be arrested.

00:18:21Obviously, that kind of double standard is unacceptable and is the, you know, refuge of cowards.

00:18:27OK, let's bring in Don Keith.

00:18:29Welcome to Uncensored.

00:18:32Thank you for having me.

00:18:33You were banned from attending the Tommy Robinson march.

00:18:36Were you given any specific reason why?

00:18:39I was not given any reason.

00:18:41The notice I got said that the government doesn't have to give you a reason.

00:18:44They don't always give you a reason.

00:18:45I was shocked by it because really, I guess my only crime was being associated with Tommy Robinson and speaking

00:18:50out against things like Islam.

00:18:53Yeah.

00:18:53I mean, can you think of anything that you have done or said which would warrant you being denied access

00:19:00to the United Kingdom?

00:19:02I've never even, I've never committed a crime in my life.

00:19:06I've never incited violence.

00:19:08I've been to the UK.

00:19:09I've attended every one of these UTK rallies in the past.

00:19:12I think from the time it started two years ago, there's been five or six.

00:19:15I've attended every single one.

00:19:17I've marched in every single one.

00:19:18I've never called for violence.

00:19:20So, yeah, I'm just baffled as to why I would be banned from a country just for expressing an opinion.

00:19:27We're being associated with Tommy Robinson.

00:19:29Would you categorize yourself as far right?

00:19:32Absolutely not.

00:19:33What is far right?

00:19:34Who gets to define what far right?

00:19:36To me, the only thing that's far right apparently is if you disagree with any of Labour's policies or any

00:19:43left-wing policies, that makes you far right.

00:19:45The deciders of what's far right and what's hate speech and things like that are the people in power.

00:19:50That's why Britain is in such dire straits right now with their speech because they don't have a constitution set

00:19:56in stone that protects their speech rights and their free expression.

00:20:00All they have is a litany of different court precedents and legal precedents that establish what can or cannot be

00:20:07free speech.

00:20:08And that's dictated by the party in power, which means they can change like the wind.

00:20:11That's not really free speech.

00:20:13Britain's never really had free speech.

00:20:14To me, they need some sort of constitution set in stone that protects it.

00:20:19Do you believe that Muslims should be allowed in the UK Parliament?

00:20:24Well, I'm not a British citizen.

00:20:27The problem with Islam and the problem of Muslims in Parliament is Islam itself and what it commands of Muslims.

00:20:33They must always make policies and legislation to protect Islam.

00:20:37It's Islam first and foremost.

00:20:39It's never a separation of church and state.

00:20:42Well, they couldn't do that as part of the UK Parliament because they'd be subjected to UK law.

00:20:47So that's an irrelevance.

00:20:49Well, they would do their damnedest to try.

00:20:52If you look at what's happening now, you don't even really need Muslim members in Parliament to make change in

00:20:58your country.

00:20:58If you see what's happening all around your country, you don't even need Muslim members in Parliament.

00:21:02All you need is key figures in local suburbs in and around London, city councils, mayors, people who can affect

00:21:13change locally.

00:21:14And by caveat, you can affect an entire nation.

00:21:16That's what we see happening in Great Britain right now.

00:21:18You don't need Parliament.

00:21:19You don't need the Prime Minister to be Muslim.

00:21:21All you need is mayors like Sadiq Khan who can trickle down his policies to all the little boroughs.

00:21:26But interestingly, I saw Sadiq Khan today, funny enough, at the Chelsea Flower Show.

00:21:33And we had a nice chat.

00:21:35And Sadiq Khan is actually a very moderate Muslim.

00:21:37He's never there's no evidence of him ever forcing any kind of extreme Muslim views or laws down on anybody.

00:21:44That's why he's been reelected twice.

00:21:46And he's one of the most successful mayors in London history.

00:21:49And yet he is portrayed in America as some kind of demonic Islamist extremist.

00:21:55And the same way that our free speech is completely mischaracterized by Americans.

00:22:00You know, a lot of Americans believe that 12,000 people were arrested in 2023 for social media posts.

00:22:09That is complete nonsense.

00:22:12Of the of the 12,000.

00:22:13Nonviolent speech offenses.

00:22:14Well, of the 12,000 arrests that were made.

00:22:16Well, I'll tell you the reality of the 12,000 arrests that were made.

00:22:201,000 resulted in any convictions.

00:22:23And the vast majority of those were for things like stalking, domestic harassment, abusive ex-partners,

00:22:31incessantly sending threats, intimidating victims, credible violent threats, digital death threats, bomb hoaxes.

00:22:38One of them was me.

00:22:38Threats of physical violence.

00:22:39One of them was me.

00:22:40And one of them was Ava, so Ava.

00:22:42Not a hate speech.

00:22:42One of them was a man who had used hate speech online to say he was going to set my

00:22:47family on fire.

00:22:48So one of those arrests was a man who did that to me.

00:22:50Now, if you don't think that he should have been arrested, he should just be allowed to say he's going

00:22:54to set my family on fire,

00:22:55then we're on two different sides of the coin, clearly.

00:22:58Well, that's a call for violence.

00:22:59Well, Don, before you answer, the point I'm making is there is a weird mischaracterization, I believe, of my country.

00:23:05Right.

00:23:06Which is that we're being overrun and overtaken by Muslims.

00:23:10Sharia courts are everywhere.

00:23:12They're ruling the roost and so on.

00:23:14None of this is actually true.

00:23:16Right.

00:23:16I mean, you've got about you've got about 85 Sharia courts.

00:23:19But they have no legal standing in the UK.

00:23:21I know you were going to say that.

00:23:22They do not have legal standing per se.

00:23:25Well, no, full stop.

00:23:26However, if you are a young woman, if you are, no, it's not full stop.

00:23:29If you are a young woman in Islam, if you are a young woman, you are forced to adhere to

00:23:34the decisions these courts make within your religion.

00:23:36If not, then you will be castigated by your family and ostracized by your family.

00:23:40You could be even subject to things like honor killings, depending on the situation.

00:23:45There have been young ladies in Britain and other Western countries.

00:23:48You can shake your head all you want, but it's happened.

00:23:50A father recently tried to strangle his daughter in an honor killing.

00:23:54And I can't remember which Western country it was.

00:23:57But when these girls don't adhere to these laws or these decisions by these Sharia courts,

00:24:02and they could be subject to penalties within their own family.

00:24:05So while it may not be legal in the UK's eyes, these young girls are pressured by these courts.

00:24:10And it's them, as we know, Islam doesn't care about women.

00:24:13We know what Islam thinks about women.

00:24:14Do you think there's ever been, is there any evidence, do you think, in America, for example,

00:24:18of any violence towards young women who may have had an abortion,

00:24:22who come from a very, very strong Christian conservative family, for example?

00:24:27Because I can tell you there have been, but do you care about that, or is your interest...

00:24:32Of course.

00:24:33OK, that's fair enough.

00:24:35So I want to have a reasonable discussion.

00:24:37Sure.

00:24:38So your view would apply to any religion where the religious belief leads to any form of intimidation

00:24:45or harassment or violence towards women, for example?

00:24:48Of course.

00:24:50OK.

00:24:50Of course.

00:24:51I do believe in protecting women.

00:24:53I believe in protecting any fragile human being.

00:24:55That's why I'm anti-abortion.

00:24:57That's why I'm pro-life.

00:24:58I think women, I think children, I think unborn babies should be protected to whatever extreme

00:25:04is necessary.

00:25:05But the problem...

00:25:06And do you believe, Don, because I know you were...

00:25:08When Tommy Robinson was going through some of his court issues, you were there in court

00:25:13in the UK.

00:25:14Do you believe, as Tommy Robinson likes Americans to believe, that he has been a victim of suppression

00:25:20of his free speech, and the only reason he's been put in prison is because of that?

00:25:26I 100% believe that Tommy Robinson is a politically targeted figure.

00:25:31100%, whether it be because of his free speech or to prevent him from speaking out.

00:25:36Because we know that the Muslim electorate is very important in Britain.

00:25:42They can swing an election.

00:25:44That's why the members in parliament and other people in the establishment, they want to

00:25:49silence Tommy Robinson at all costs.

00:25:52You look what they did for the...

00:25:53I know all about the silence movie.

00:25:55He wasn't...

00:25:55You know, he found a...

00:25:56Well, the silence movie, let's be clear.

00:25:58Let's be crystal clear about this.

00:25:59There's a reason Tommy Robinson won't come on this show.

00:26:01And the simple reason is he knows I would ask him about the silence movie and why he was

00:26:07in contempt of court and why he went back to prison.

00:26:10And it's because he tells a lot of lies in the silence movie that were exposed as lies.

00:26:14Well, hang on.

00:26:15Let me finish.

00:26:16There was, as you remember, a libel action that was taken, which he lost.

00:26:21He had to pay 100,000 pounds to a young Syrian boy who he defamed with egregious lies.

00:26:28He then repeated all the lies in this film he made called Silenced, which he talks about

00:26:33very openly when he's in America.

00:26:35You know where he doesn't talk about this?

00:26:37Here, with people like me.

00:26:39I've heard him talk about it several times.

00:26:40I've heard him talk about it on stage.

00:26:41But he never gets challenged...

00:26:43Don, here's my point.

00:26:44He never gets challenged directly about all the lies he tells in Silenced.

00:26:48The reason he got in prison was because of the breach of contempt of court law here,

00:26:54which was if you repeat the lies for which you just lost a libel action and paid damages

00:26:58to this family, if you do that again, you will go back to prison.

00:27:02That is what he did.

00:27:03Okay.

00:27:03It had nothing to do with free speech.

00:27:04Okay, let me interject.

00:27:06But what was the lies?

00:27:06Okay, as far as silence, I know that you love to get on here and tell that Tommy Robinson

00:27:11told lies about silence.

00:27:12That's not the case.

00:27:13He did.

00:27:13Everything told in silence was from the perspective...

00:27:16No, no, no, no.

00:27:17Oh, yeah.

00:27:17One judge overrode five witnesses.

00:27:19See, now what you're doing, you're now repeating...

00:27:21He punched a twill...

00:27:22He punched a twill...

00:27:23I'm repeating what the witnesses...

00:27:25I'm repeating what the witnesses...

00:27:27I'm repeating what the witnesses...

00:27:28No, no.

00:27:30I've read every word of that court case.

00:27:32Those people said it for declaration.

00:27:34Your problem is you have a vendetta against Tommy Robinson because the last time he was

00:27:38on his show, he gave you a shellacking and you've never forgiven him for it.

00:27:41No, he didn't.

00:27:42Yes, he did.

00:27:43Everybody knows it.

00:27:45He beat everybody.

00:27:46He beat everybody.

00:27:46And I held him to account for it.

00:27:47Look at the clips, man.

00:27:49Look at the clips.

00:27:49Okay, but here's the thing.

00:27:50If your hero, Tommy, is so courageous and so fierce...

00:27:53He's not my hero, he's my friend, but he's a champion to the British people.

00:27:56If your friend, Tommy, all he has to do is sit here in this desk opposite me and face

00:28:01the same questions.

00:28:02But you know why he's ducking me?

00:28:04Because he knows if he repeats the bullshit he spews to you guys that you all seem to

00:28:09swallow, he's going back to prison.

00:28:10I'm challenging you right now.

00:28:11He's going back to prison.

00:28:12You cannot answer to me.

00:28:13You cannot tell me how you know, why you think it was a lie.

00:28:16Because one judge said that the five people that he brought to court and said this Syrian

00:28:21boy did all these things.

00:28:23There was no evidence.

00:28:25The Fabian Society, the liberal Fabian Society judge says no.

00:28:28All of these witnesses are lying to Syrian refugees.

00:28:31You're now defaming the judge.

00:28:32It seems a really extraordinary thing.

00:28:34Cenk, here's the problem with this.

00:28:36Tommy Robinson wields an extraordinarily unhealthy...

00:28:38I live in a free country.

00:28:39Well, hang on, Don.

00:28:40I've just given you free speech to have your rant.

00:28:42It's fine.

00:28:43I don't agree with you.

00:28:43We can agree to disagree.

00:28:45You agree, right?

00:28:46Yeah, for sure.

00:28:46You believe in free speech, so calm down.

00:28:49So, Cenk, here's the issue.

00:28:52Tommy Robinson wields an extraordinarily odd influence to the conservative right in America.

00:28:58He seemed to believe all the stuff he comes out with.

00:29:00And in the process, he paints this picture of Britain, which I simply don't recognise.

00:29:06I live here.

00:29:07I walk around the street, despite what some American guests have said.

00:29:10I go to football matches with real British people every week.

00:29:14I'll be at one tonight with 60,000 mainly working class British people.

00:29:19I don't recognise.

00:29:20And it'll be full of people from all walks of life.

00:29:23Black, white, Muslim, Jewish, Christian.

00:29:26And you know what?

00:29:27It's all fine.

00:29:28There's no Muslim takeover.

00:29:30The game won't be stopped halfway through because the Muslims have decided in a Sharia court that we're not allowed

00:29:35to play.

00:29:36This is all horse shit.

00:29:38Cenk, your thoughts.

00:29:39Yeah, it's fine.

00:29:40250,000 of your women are being raped by a Muslim, but it's okay.

00:29:44It's fine.

00:29:44An utterly ridiculous statement.

00:29:46Go to Birmingham.

00:29:47Go to Manchester.

00:29:48It's such an insane statement.

00:29:50As I've said repeatedly, the vast majority of sexual crime against women in the UK.

00:29:55That was Lord Malcolm Pearson in Parliament.

00:29:56Don Keith, the vast majority of sexual crime against women in my country is committed by white men.

00:30:02Oh, here we go.

00:30:03You've never heard of Per Capitan.

00:30:05I have heard of Per Capitan.

00:30:07It's disproportionately committed by Muslims against white Christian girls because it's a rape genocide.

00:30:12Let me bring Cenk in.

00:30:14Let me bring Cenk in.

00:30:15Cenk.

00:30:17Yeah.

00:30:18All right.

00:30:18So there's a couple of layers of this.

00:30:19First of all, the idea that Sharia law is about to take over London or here in America, Oklahoma keeps

00:30:25passing laws as if the Sharia law is about to take over Tulsa.

00:30:31This is all demagoguery and it's super obvious, especially in America where Muslims are a tiny, tiny minority.

00:30:39So the reason why people push that forward is because they want people to hate Muslims.

00:30:44Now, why do they want people to hate Muslims?

00:30:46How come there's no propaganda against Buddhists or Hindus?

00:30:49Right.

00:30:50And please don't start it.

00:30:52I don't want propaganda against anyone.

00:30:54But the reason why there's no propaganda against Muslims in the West.

00:30:58No, actually, in the they did it to the in to the Rohingya in Myanmar.

00:31:05So it's not about religion, guys.

00:31:07Buddhists do it.

00:31:08Jews do it.

00:31:08Muslims do it.

00:31:09Christians do it.

00:31:09There's people who abuse other folks all across the world from all the different religions.

00:31:13You mentioned shunning women who leave the religion or shunning anyone who leaves the religion.

00:31:18The Mormons do that.

00:31:19So you talk about, oh, my God, how do they treat their wives?

00:31:22And they expect them to be.

00:31:24I'm not fond of Mormons either.

00:31:24There's literally a concept called trad wives here.

00:31:27Yeah.

00:31:27There's a concept called trad wives in America.

00:31:29So you can insult everybody's religion if you want.

00:31:32But the most important part is, why are they doing this?

00:31:34And there's a politics behind it.

00:31:36In fact, there's people paying for it.

00:31:38The Israelis pay people in the UK and the US to spread hatred towards Muslims

00:31:44so that the UK and the US will finance Israel and their war crimes and their wars against Muslims.

00:31:50Well, actually, actually, check.

00:31:50It's totally on purpose.

00:31:52It can actually be easier than that.

00:31:53I mean, Keith, for example, you shared a video to your very large online audience with the caption,

00:31:58this is a town council meeting in England, not Afghanistan.

00:32:01I shit you not.

00:32:02And you use the footage to push the narrative that British local government institutions

00:32:06have been completely overrun and dominated by foreign Islamic interests.

00:32:11The very point you've been making, Timmy.

00:32:13But it turned out the footage was of a meeting in Pakistan.

00:32:17And you then took that down.

00:32:19Yeah.

00:32:19Right?

00:32:19So would you like to apologize for a-

00:32:23I did take it down.

00:32:24It was a repost.

00:32:25Have you apologized?

00:32:25I took it down.

00:32:26It was wrong.

00:32:27You apologized?

00:32:28Of course I apologized.

00:32:29If it was wrong, yeah.

00:32:30Okay, good.

00:32:30Why did you post it without checking?

00:32:34It's very hard to tell that this is between Pakistan and the UK.

00:32:37You know, that's the problem with social media.

00:32:38Sometimes we try to be too quick rather than accurate.

00:32:41And that was a mistake on my part.

00:32:42I don't have a problem owning a mistake.

00:32:45So, yeah.

00:32:46I took the post down as soon as I realized it was wrong.

00:32:49But the difference in, you know, as I see it in all these things you're pointing out

00:32:51about the different religions, there's a reason why we don't see almost no Muslim girls

00:32:57in the rape statistics in Britain is because it's a religiously motivated rape jihad against Christians

00:33:03by these predominantly Pakistani Muslim men.

00:33:06Oh, come on.

00:33:06You don't find the white men.

00:33:07Hold on.

00:33:08You don't find the white men in Britain raping Muslim girls as some sort of religious targeting

00:33:13because the reason they don't rape their own girls is because that would be haram.

00:33:16So they go outside of their religion because that's considered all right

00:33:19because we know what the Quran says about sex slaves and all those things outside of your religion.

00:33:24It's just, oh, it's just made up.

00:33:26Let me bring Ava Santina back in.

00:33:29Let me bring Ava Santina back in here.

00:33:31In your mind.

00:33:31You probably want to do it.

00:33:33That's why you put it.

00:33:33You project it on the Muslims because your sick mind thinks that that's a fun thing to do.

00:33:39We don't think that's a fun thing to do.

00:33:41You think it's a fun thing to do because you're a sick individual.

00:33:44You're an idiot.

00:33:46You're an idiot.

00:33:47What was it?

00:33:48Oh, wow.

00:33:49That was an effective argument.

00:33:50Well, I'm sorry.

00:33:50I missed what you said, Jake.

00:33:51What did you say?

00:33:52Yours was super effective, too.

00:33:55What was the point you made?

00:33:56So what happens?

00:33:57Hold on.

00:33:58Hold on.

00:33:59What happens all the time with anti-Muslim hatred is projection.

00:34:02So, for example.

00:34:03I'm not anti-Muslim.

00:34:04You're talking about Muslims rape.

00:34:06I like Muslims who love me.

00:34:07I don't like Islam.

00:34:08Hold on.

00:34:08Shut up.

00:34:09Shut up.

00:34:10You shut up.

00:34:11Shut your mouth.

00:34:12What you gonna do?

00:34:13What you gonna do?

00:34:14So, no.

00:34:14It's my question.

00:34:16It's my question.

00:34:17Okay?

00:34:18So this bigot comes on here and makes up this fantasy he has in his head about Muslims raping

00:34:23white women because he wants to rape women and he thinks that's a fun thing to do.

00:34:27So he projects it on the Muslims as if they would want to do it.

00:34:32No, no, no, no.

00:34:33No, no.

00:34:34No, no.

00:34:36You cannot say that.

00:34:37I'm sorry.

00:34:38There is absolutely no evidence that Don Key wants to rape people, right?

00:34:42And let's be clear about-

00:34:44Well, there's no evidence that Muslims want to do it either, but he just made it up.

00:34:47No, he hasn't made it up.

00:34:49I would argue there's an exaggeration there for this reason.

00:34:52There was a clear-

00:34:53Oh, then I'm exaggerating.

00:34:55Maybe he wants to rape adult women.

00:34:57I don't know.

00:34:57Just adult women.

00:34:59He's given no indication he wants to rape any women, right?

00:35:01So I think that's an outrageous thing to say.

00:35:03And what I would say about the point he's making-

00:35:05Oh, it's an outrageous thing to say about him, but it's not outrageous to say about all Muslims.

00:35:09No.

00:35:10No.

00:35:10It's much more outrageous to say about all Muslims.

00:35:13The only reason you would think it is if it's a fantasy in your head.

00:35:16I would say all Muslims.

00:35:16Yeah, Don, you think about it all the time, don't you?

00:35:18It's not my statistic.

00:35:20It's the British government statistic.

00:35:23250,000 plus girls in the last 25 years have been raped by predominantly Pakistani Muslim men.

00:35:29That was Lord Malcolm Pearson in the House of Lords who said that.

00:35:32It was not me.

00:35:33So don't get mad at me.

00:35:34You go get mad at Lord Malcolm Pearson.

00:35:37Can I just tell you this sophistry, this trick that they do?

00:35:40So they do it here in America with immigrants.

00:35:42I don't know anything about that number.

00:35:43But here in America, immigrants commit less crime.

00:35:47In fact, legalized immigrants like me, nationalized citizens like me commit a quarter of the crime.

00:35:52So a person born in America is four times more likely to commit crime, right?

00:35:57But what they do is they find one or two cases or a series of cases over 25 years and

00:36:04they go, look at the number of cases.

00:36:06Now, if you did that with, as Pierce said, with white Christians, you would have a number that is so

00:36:11much higher.

00:36:12But they don't say that.

00:36:13And I wouldn't say that.

00:36:14Does that mean all white Christians do it?

00:36:15Of course not.

00:36:17Of course not.

00:36:17But these these guys who want to spread hatred, they go and cherry pick numbers, which are much, much worse

00:36:24for the native born or for white Christians.

00:36:26But we don't cherry pick numbers like that to blame white Christians, because that's insane.

00:36:31You're if you're a white Christian, you're not responsible for the act of some stupid rapist.

00:36:35That's not fair to you.

00:36:36Let me bring in.

00:36:37I want to bring in.

00:36:39All right.

00:36:40I want to bring the women back into the Bay Muslims.

00:36:44OK, they're all serving Israel men stay within their own.

00:36:47The difference is white men stay within their cultures.

00:36:51All racers, pretty much for any crime, you'll find those crimes committed.

00:36:55By the way, Don, that is complete nonsense.

00:36:58The idea that white men only rape within their own cultures.

00:37:01I didn't say all right.

00:37:02I said predominantly.

00:37:03Predominantly.

00:37:04So just hear me out.

00:37:05Oh, it's still a predominantly rape white women.

00:37:08And you think that's a good thing?

00:37:09Crimes in general.

00:37:09You think it's a good thing that white men predominantly rape white women?

00:37:13All right.

00:37:13You know what?

00:37:14I'm going to bring a woman in here.

00:37:15Because I feel it increased.

00:37:17Crimes in general are committed within your own culture.

00:37:18I'm going to say I don't like any of the tenor of what you guys are talking about.

00:37:22All right.

00:37:23This is rape is the most serious sexual crime imaginable.

00:37:26I agree.

00:37:27I agree.

00:37:27And at the moment, it's getting trivialized in a pretty distasteful manner.

00:37:31Eva, let me bring you in here.

00:37:32Yeah, I agree.

00:37:32Look, we're talking about this in a way which I just I'd find increasing uncomfortable.

00:37:36Can I just say importantly, before you ask me your question,

00:37:38I can't find any evidence of that statistic.

00:37:41And I think the thing I would say, which is probably not going to go down very well,

00:37:45but various police forces, and actually that was one of the main reasons that the Rotherham

00:37:48grooming gangs exploded in the way it did, don't actually record ethnicity and race.

00:37:53Right.

00:37:53That's a big problem in this country.

00:37:54So it would be highly unlikely that you'd have been able to have that kind of data in

00:37:57the first place.

00:37:58It was, it was announced by, it was given to the House of Commons, excuse me, House of

00:38:03Lords by Lord Pearson.

00:38:04House of Lords.

00:38:04Yes.

00:38:05Sorry.

00:38:06But by Lord Pearson.

00:38:07But there isn't any evidence.

00:38:09It was then submitted to ministers who rejected it.

00:38:12So I don't think there is any evidence for that claim.

00:38:14Sorry.

00:38:15Can I ask you a question?

00:38:16Of course.

00:38:16Of course he's lying.

00:38:18If someone, God forbid, if someone, God forbid, raped your daughter and then came back

00:38:21to you and said to you, actually, let's talk about ethnicity and religion and statistics

00:38:25and not the fact that your child has been raped.

00:38:27I'm just saying about the staff.

00:38:28How would you feel?

00:38:29How would you feel?

00:38:29But I'm just saying about the staff.

00:38:30These are children we're talking about.

00:38:31Children have been raped.

00:38:32And rather than people just focus on the fact that these children have been raped.

00:38:36I'm just not doing this.

00:38:36They're talking about Islamophobia, racism, and all of this.

00:38:40Look at this.

00:38:40I'm just saying this is too serious.

00:38:42Using the example that white men rape in this country is like saying, oh my gosh,

00:38:46Nigerians are raping so much Nigerians.

00:38:48White men are the majority in this country.

00:38:50So yes, they are going to make up the statistics of men raping.

00:38:53I'm just explaining.

00:38:53But when we're talking about grooming gangs, yes, it is Asian Muslim.

00:38:56I'm explaining.

00:38:57We're not saying it's all men.

00:38:59We're not saying it's all men.

00:39:00What's the point?

00:39:01What I'm trying to say is if someone raped your daughter, you would not like someone

00:39:04to come to you talking about ethnicity, racism, Islamophobia.

00:39:08You would want someone to have compassion.

00:39:10He is literally just given a statistic making that exact point.

00:39:14At the end of the day, young girls are being assaulted.

00:39:19Why are we talking about statistics and racism and Islamophobia?

00:39:21But that was my point earlier.

00:39:22Have some compassion.

00:39:24Why don't you guys just sit here and say it's sad.

00:39:26We are literally the ones who are having the compassion.

00:39:28Just sit here and say it's sad and we need to find a way for it to stop.

00:39:32But you guys sit here and talk about Islamophobia and racism and statistics.

00:39:35Who cares?

00:39:36I don't care if it's one person.

00:39:37We should just have some flipping compassion.

00:39:39But is that not the point that we're all making?

00:39:41There's two reasons.

00:39:41No, the point that I'm making is why wasn't your response?

00:39:44This is wrong.

00:39:45We need to figure out a way to do it.

00:39:46Instead, you brought out statistics from your phone talking about I cannot find it.

00:39:50That is categorically unfair.

00:39:51No, what I'm trying to say is as a woman, have some compassion.

00:39:54No, I'm not going to have you dominate the narrative here.

00:39:56If someone's telling you that young women are being assaulted.

00:39:59I can't be asking for a minute.

00:40:01I'm not doing it.

00:40:01Because you know what you're doing is disgusting.

00:40:03I'm sorry.

00:40:04And demonic.

00:40:04It's so demonic.

00:40:05What is demonic?

00:40:06What are you talking about?

00:40:07It's demonic to sit there and make.

00:40:08You've just driven someone to leave the studio.

00:40:10Yeah, no.

00:40:10She left by herself.

00:40:12She left by herself.

00:40:13She does not like the fact that I just drew her out for being actually quite disgusting.

00:40:19If someone tells you that young girls are being...

00:40:20She wasn't disgusting.

00:40:20You were the one being disgusting.

00:40:22And how?

00:40:23You didn't listen to her.

00:40:24How?

00:40:24I listened to everything that she said.

00:40:26No, you didn't.

00:40:27You started talking about it when her daughter was raped.

00:40:29Are you insane?

00:40:30She was checking a claim made by another panel member.

00:40:31If someone tells you that a young person has been raped.

00:40:33I don't care if it's five English women or two English women.

00:40:36Have some compassion and just say it's wrong.

00:40:38Where did she show no compassion?

00:40:40What are you talking about?

00:40:41When did she say in this interview that this is wrong and we need to figure out a way

00:40:45for what to stop?

00:40:46You weren't even listening to why she was saying what she was saying.

00:40:48No, but what I'm trying to say is why was her first response bringing out statistics

00:40:52and not saying actually this is wrong...

00:40:54Because another panel member made a claim about a statistic.

00:40:56Because you made up a statistic.

00:40:58How stupid can you be?

00:41:00It's not about being stupid.

00:41:01You made up a statistic and then said it was demonic.

00:41:03You're still using the whole far-right narrative.

00:41:04The statistic wasn't made up.

00:41:06The statistic was not made up.

00:41:08It was extrapolated from data that came from Rotherham, Telfer and Oxford.

00:41:13Extrapolated.

00:41:13Yeah.

00:41:13But why are we talking about statistics?

00:41:15That same method of extrapolation is used for disease prevalence, wildlife, environmental

00:41:22factors.

00:41:22That same method of data collection is used throughout science.

00:41:27Let me try and help for those who are too stupid at the back.

00:41:30Piers Morgan just said that rape is a sensitive topic, whilst at the same time...

00:41:35What are you talking about?

00:41:36...justifying the fact that we should not have sympathy for it, and at the same time...

00:41:39Nobody said that!

00:41:41What are you talking about?

00:41:42Do you have sympathy for what's going on with the girl?

00:41:43Nobody said that!

00:41:44Do you have sympathy?

00:41:46What are we doing?

00:41:46For what?

00:41:47What are you talking about?

00:41:47Do you have sympathy for the young English girls that have been assaulted?

00:41:49Do you have sympathy?

00:41:50Sorry.

00:41:51Oh, so now you're stuttering.

00:41:53Now you're stuttering.

00:41:54No, I haven't.

00:41:54So you've just exposed yourself for not having sympathy.

00:41:56I have a no stupid people rule on panel members for this show.

00:42:00And sometimes we drop below it.

00:42:02The way you started this panel and the way you've ended it suggests that you shouldn't

00:42:07have passed our bar, because frankly, you've been not only stupid and ill-informed

00:42:11and told a bunch of lies, but then right at the end you've driven one of our regular

00:42:16panel members to leave because you told disgusting lies about her.

00:42:20I didn't force her.

00:42:21You made disgusting suggestions about what she did or didn't care about.

00:42:25What if she lied?

00:42:25I was just questioning where was her sympathy?

00:42:27To be clear, Don Keith made a statement involving a statistic.

00:42:32Ava checked it.

00:42:33The 250,000 stat is widely circulated, but unsubstantiated, as she explained.

00:42:38The Government Grooming Gangs Task Force created in 2023 helped police to identify more

00:42:44than 4,000 victims.

00:42:45Let me say what I believe about that.

00:42:47It was disgusting that that was going on for so long without proper accountability.

00:42:51It was disgusting that there was a cover-up at all levels of government in this country

00:42:57to not bring the perpetrators to book.

00:43:00Yes, it is true that in that particular Grooming Gang, rape gang scandal, it involved predominantly

00:43:05British Pakistani Muslim men.

00:43:08All of those things are inarguable.

00:43:10But it's also true that the vast majority of sexual crime in this country is perpetrated

00:43:16by white men.

00:43:17Right, so this idea that it's only perpetrated by Muslims is nonsense.

00:43:25You said only Muslims.

00:43:26And the idea that people like me or Ava Santina have no compassion for the victims when all

00:43:32we have done for the last few years is express loudly and repeatedly our compassion for the

00:43:39victims and our outrage about the scandal is, frankly, ignorant, stupid, and disgustingly

00:43:46offensive.

00:43:46And I don't blame Ava for leaving.

00:43:48And you, I'm afraid, if you ever come back here, which I think is unlikely, Sintish, you

00:43:53should be better informed.

00:43:54And when you're on a panel, you should listen to what people are actually saying before

00:43:59you smear them in the way that you smeared them.

00:44:01We're going to end things there.

00:44:02Thank you to my panel.

00:44:04I appreciate it.

00:44:05We're turning now to the claims of an Israeli plot to hijack Eurovision voting and Israel's

00:44:09decision to sue the New York Times with two guests who actually both attended marches

00:44:13in London this weekend, but not the same one.

00:44:15Jonathan Conrickers is a former lieutenant colonel and spokesman for the IDF.

00:44:18And Kieran Andreu is a British-Palestinian journalist and activist.

00:44:22Well, welcome to both of you.

00:44:24Jonathan, nice to see you here in the studio.

00:44:27Regular guest on Uncensored, obviously.

00:44:30Zahra Sultana MP claimed on X there were 250,000 people.

00:44:34Police said 20,000.

00:44:35Tommy Robinson said there were millions at his march.

00:44:38Police said there were 50,000.

00:44:40What is it about March?

00:44:41Is March size the new penis size, where people just lie repeatedly about size?

00:44:47Or if so, why?

00:44:48Apparently, it does matter size.

00:44:51But in terms of, you know, that's not, I think, a unique phenomenon here.

00:44:55I haven't heard an organizer of any political rally to claim the same numbers that then authorities,

00:45:02police and aerial reconnaissance and AI supported afterwards.

00:45:06It's usually much more.

00:45:07So I don't think that's anything unique to these demonstrations.

00:45:10I was happy to be among the crowd of the Unite the Kingdom march.

00:45:15I found it very enjoyable.

00:45:17Did you feel you were amongst like-minded souls there, Jonathan?

00:45:20I felt that I was amongst patriots.

00:45:23Did you?

00:45:24Yeah.

00:45:25I saw a lot of British patriots.

00:45:27I saw a lot of people who were marching with their own flags

00:45:30and being proud and happy to live in a free democratic society.

00:45:34And when you saw one of the speakers do this, Kelly Jean King.

00:45:36Let's look at this.

00:45:38It's not too late to get Islam out of that building.

00:45:44It is not too late to get Islam out of every single official office in this country.

00:45:54And more than not too late, it is absolutely vital.

00:45:59If we want to save this country, we have to remove Islam from every single place of authority.

00:46:09Do you feel comfortable now?

00:46:11Now you've seen that?

00:46:12That was one of the speakers at the event.

00:46:13Well, she didn't say Muslims, did she?

00:46:15She specifically said Islam.

00:46:18And I think there's a very big difference here.

00:46:20Had she said Muslims, as in people with beliefs, I would have had an issue.

00:46:24What if she said Jews or people who practice Judaism?

00:46:27Well, she didn't say Jews or she didn't say people.

00:46:30You're spitting hairs, Jonathan.

00:46:31No, no, I'm not.

00:46:32You know you are.

00:46:33No, I'm not.

00:46:33And I think that's a vital point.

00:46:34So she said we've got to get Judaism out of every form of parliament,

00:46:39local or state level, national level of the country.

00:46:41I don't know that there is any Jewish authority in British politics.

00:46:44I don't know that Jews exercise that kind of power.

00:46:46Well, there's no Islam authority in British politics.

00:46:48I don't know that...

00:46:49Well, actually...

00:46:50Well, who is it?

00:46:51Actually, I would beg to differ.

00:46:52Why?

00:46:53I think that there are numerous heads of councils, numerous...

00:46:56Who happen to be Muslim?

00:46:57No.

00:46:58Who, when they pledge allegiance in their acceptance speech, they do it to the ummah.

00:47:02They don't do it to queen or king and country and not to the flag.

00:47:05But they have to abide by UK law.

00:47:09They do it to the ummah.

00:47:19See, this is the problem I have.

00:47:21Jonathan is a regular guest.

00:47:23I enjoy having him on.

00:47:24Always...

00:47:25I think, you know, one of the more fair-minded people, if I may say that without sounding

00:47:29patronising, when we talk about all issues involving Israel.

00:47:33Because you're not afraid to be critical where you feel it's deserved.

00:47:36But on this one, to me, there's a complete, either a willful refusal to just watch what we just watched

00:47:44and interpret it correctly.

00:47:45Or just a double standard.

00:47:46And I say that with Jonathan sitting here.

00:47:48Because the truth is, if she had said...

00:47:51If that had been at the other rally, and you had a speaker saying, we've got to get rid of

00:47:55all the Jews...

00:47:56But she didn't say Jews.

00:47:58Well, it's the same thing.

00:47:58No, it isn't.

00:47:59It is a big difference.

00:48:00I think...

00:48:01So, you'll be pleased to hear.

00:48:03I don't think Jonathan is very fair-minded.

00:48:05We've debated before Jonathan on various shows.

00:48:08I think that it's very, very instructive and actually very useful that you openly say you line up with Tommy

00:48:16Robinson and his cohort.

00:48:18I think it's very useful because we get a transparent size of you when you say such a thing.

00:48:23And by extension, I think a good part of the Israeli body politic.

00:48:27I think you speak for a lot of them.

00:48:29I could say the same thing about you marching with Hamas apologists.

00:48:33If the woman there...

00:48:34That's the same thing.

00:48:35That's a complete nonsense analogy.

00:48:37If...

00:48:38If...

00:48:39If...

00:48:40If...

00:48:41If...

00:48:51If...

00:48:51Then you can...

00:48:52Listen, I haven't finished my point.

00:48:53I think you should let me...

00:48:54If you can...

00:48:55If you can...

00:48:56If you can...

00:48:57If you want to just muddy the waters so that nobody can hear either of us,

00:49:03you're going to end up coming away like the pantomime villain.

00:49:05Let me finish my point.

00:49:06So...

00:49:07The only villain here would be you, but fine.

00:49:09That's a very...

00:49:09If you refrain from...

00:49:10Then he finishes his point, Jonathan.

00:49:11From verifying me.

00:49:13Then he finishes his point.

00:49:13Jonathan.

00:49:14Yeah.

00:49:14Go ahead.

00:49:14You're a grown man.

00:49:15Shut up and let me speak.

00:49:16Don't tell me to shut up.

00:49:17Jonathan.

00:49:18Don't tell me to shut up.

00:49:19Don't do that mistake.

00:49:19Keep it simple.

00:49:20If that woman wanted to make the distinction that you want her to make, which is that she

00:49:25doesn't want political Islam in institutions, which is what you claim she is.

00:49:30Exactly what she said.

00:49:30She could have said Islamism.

00:49:32No.

00:49:32She said Islam.

00:49:33No, no.

00:49:33She said Islam because she doesn't want anybody who is Muslim, as Pierce said...

00:49:38How do you know what she wants?

00:49:39To fulfill any kind of...

00:49:40How do you know what she wants?

00:49:41She said Islam.

00:49:42It's so blindingly obvious.

00:49:42She didn't say I want Muslims.

00:49:45You have to have...

00:49:45You would have to...

00:49:45She said, I don't want Islam.

00:49:47Now, I don't even know the woman.

00:49:48I don't know who she is.

00:49:49Is there anybody...

00:49:50Jonathan, quick sort of trivia question.

00:49:52Are there any people who follow the faith of Islam who are not Muslim?

00:49:59No.

00:49:59Of course.

00:50:00But there are...

00:50:01Just for any viewers watching at home who might think that when you say she wasn't

00:50:04talking about Muslims, she's talking about Islam.

00:50:08But actually, if the only people that are engaged in practicing Islam are Muslims, and

00:50:14she's talking about removing human beings from the body politic of our country, she is

00:50:19talking about Muslims.

00:50:20Pierce, I think you are willfully distorting what she said.

00:50:23And I think she...

00:50:24Again, I don't...

00:50:25Do you feel comfortable defending her?

00:50:26I feel totally...

00:50:27I think there's a problem in this country with whitewashing Islamism.

00:50:32And I think that there is so much more tolerance.

00:50:34Jonathan, she didn't say Islamism.

00:50:36She didn't say Islamism.

00:50:36And I've just given you that word.

00:50:38That's fine.

00:50:38Islamism is an extremist version of Islam.

00:50:41Yeah.

00:50:41And all of us, I believe, including Kieran, would condemn it.

00:50:44Yeah.

00:50:45Well, I don't know.

00:50:45I'll believe it when he says it.

00:50:46Well, Jonathan, why don't you ask me?

00:50:48Why don't you ask me?

00:50:49I'm actually...

00:50:49I believe in a secular set of institutions.

00:50:52Really?

00:50:52Because actually, ironically, it is a secular society, unlike yours, by the

00:50:56way.

00:50:56You live in an ethno state.

00:50:58A secular society...

00:50:59So is Denmark and France.

00:51:00Whatever.

00:51:00A secular society...

00:51:01No, no, whatever.

00:51:02So is Denmark and France.

00:51:03It's an ethno state.

00:51:03Nobody can follow anything.

00:51:05A secular society, a secular set of institutions, is, counterintuitively, the only guarantee

00:51:12of religious freedoms.

00:51:13Because you treat every religion equally.

00:51:15You have religious freedom in any of the Muslim countries around the world.

00:51:18You don't have that.

00:51:18Of course you don't have that in your country.

00:51:19Of course we do.

00:51:20Of course we do.

00:51:20We have it in our country.

00:51:21We have it in our country.

00:51:22Here's the thing.

00:51:23We have religious freedom.

00:51:23I just think somebody's standing on a stage where you're in the crowd.

00:51:26Yeah.

00:51:27And are proud to be there.

00:51:28Happy to be there.

00:51:29No problem.

00:51:30Okay.

00:51:30Yeah.

00:51:31But there's a woman standing there who is just being blatantly Islamophobic.

00:51:35In the most blatant, obvious, undeniable, uncontestable manner.

00:51:39I think you're wrong, Piers.

00:51:41And I think that, you know, I think you have to be a little bit more critical in the way

00:51:45that you're, you know, happy to, with very broad strokes, paint something.

00:51:50And this is something that not only you do.

00:51:52Lots of people do it.

00:51:53Where anything where the root, the first letters of Islam is mentioned, there's this

00:51:59heightened sensitivity.

00:52:00That's just nonsense.

00:52:01Oh, Lord, please not say anything against Islam.

00:52:04As opposed to Judaism and Jews and Israel.

00:52:07Well, you can see that they are the most targeted ethnic group in the UK by far.

00:52:12We can see that the hate crimes against Jews are beyond everything else.

00:52:16They are ten times the amount of attacks against Muslims.

00:52:20That's complete nonsense.

00:52:21By that comparison, no, that's British police.

00:52:23That's a lie.

00:52:24That's just a lie.

00:52:25No, that's British police statistics.

00:52:26I mean, you're a professional liar.

00:52:27You're lying now.

00:52:28By that number, you could make that assumption.

00:52:31But I think you're doing the same mistake here.

00:52:33That woman who, again, I don't know who she is and I don't know where she comes from,

00:52:37but when she chose to say Islam, the religion, and not Muslims, I think that's a difference.

00:52:43What do you think she meant, though?

00:52:44That's a difference.

00:52:44To keep Islam out of our body politic.

00:52:46Well, I think she makes a point of having, you know, keeping Britain British in the sense

00:52:51of that church is separated from power, something that you did about 1,900 years ago, or sorry,

00:52:58900 years ago, and that you have religious freedom.

00:53:01Why are you defending this, Jonathan?

00:53:02I don't understand.

00:53:03Jonathan, can I just say...

00:53:04Why am I defending it?

00:53:04Yes.

00:53:05Because I believe, as someone who lives in the Middle East, and unlike perhaps you and

00:53:09others here, who don't yet understand the problems with institutional Islam, I think

00:53:15that you have yet...

00:53:16You don't really understand what's at stake here.

00:53:19Can I ask...

00:53:20Am I going to be allowed to come in at any point?

00:53:22Yeah, of course.

00:53:23If you let Islamists take over institutions, that is exactly what they will do.

00:53:28Sure.

00:53:28And they will use your system against you.

00:53:29But she didn't say Islamist.

00:53:31She said Islam.

00:53:33Okay.

00:53:33So, first of all, I think, Jonathan, it's an extremely strange ship for you to want to

00:53:37go down with this.

00:53:38You could have easily just said, I condemn that, but generally I didn't find that.

00:53:41I thought you would.

00:53:42I thought you would, actually, because I think you'd do a good impression of a reasonable

00:53:45person.

00:53:46Because we all know, if it had been at the other...

00:53:47Oh, come on with the condescending nonsense.

00:53:49Jonathan, if it had been at the other one, and she said, I want Judaism removed from

00:53:54all political levels of the country, you'd have gone nuts.

00:53:57Yeah, yeah.

00:53:57Rightly.

00:53:58I'd have agreed with you.

00:53:59Piers, I've been on this show enough times not to go nuts about anything, any slander

00:54:04against Israel.

00:54:05Believe me, if I was a person who was talking about the nuts...

00:54:07But I'm not talking about slander against Israel.

00:54:08I'm talking about the double standards.

00:54:10I've said the most horrific things about the Jewish state.

00:54:13Sure, I agree.

00:54:14And about the idea.

00:54:15It's not about...

00:54:16It's not about...

00:54:16I agree.

00:54:17But if a speaker at the NACA rally had stood up and said what she did, but about Jews and

00:54:24Judaism, you would have rightly, with my support, have condemned it as outrageous.

00:54:28Well, I'm staggered that when it happens to be the other side of the coin, you're not

00:54:34intellectually consistent enough to say, that is outrageous, I condemn it.

00:54:38I think you have a problem here.

00:54:39Let me also say that if somebody at a NACA demo had stood up and said...

00:54:44From the river to the sea?

00:54:45Yeah.

00:54:46Jonathan.

00:54:46For instance.

00:54:46You're eliding two things.

00:54:48No, for instance.

00:54:48If somebody had stood up and said...

00:54:50Well, yeah, I would agree with you about that.

00:54:51Why don't you try and remain on something consistent?

00:54:52Maybe we disagree on that.

00:54:53But if somebody had stood up and said Jewishness or Judaism out of British institutions, almost

00:54:59everybody at that demo would have roundly condemned them.

00:55:02Yes, of course.

00:55:03All the Hamas marches, they would have roundly condemned them.

00:55:06How many of them have you been to?

00:55:07Of course they would have condemned it.

00:55:08Just like they condemned from the river to the sea.

00:55:10How many of them...

00:55:11How many of them...

00:55:11Just like they condemned the Hamas flags.

00:55:13Yeah.

00:55:13Just like they condemned all the calls for genocide.

00:55:14How many of them have you been to, Jonathan?

00:55:16Jonathan, how many of them have you been to?

00:55:18I've been to...

00:55:18I've had enough demonstrations pointed against me by Palestinians.

00:55:20No, how many have you been to?

00:55:21How many of those ones that you seem to think you know all of the decor of?

00:55:26All of the ins and outs?

00:55:26Just as many as you have been on the other side.

00:55:28I'm just telling you that I've been to about 20 and I think you've been to none.

00:55:32I think you've probably been to none.

00:55:33Let me just play another clip.

00:55:33This has gone viral as well.

00:55:35This is where three French women took the stage dressed in burqas

00:55:37and encouraged the crowd to shout, take them off.

00:55:40Let's take a look.

00:55:46Take it off! Take it off!

00:55:48Take it off!

00:55:49Take it off!

00:55:51Take it off!

00:55:53Take it off!

00:55:54Take it off!

00:55:55Take it off!

00:55:56Take it off!

00:55:58Take it off!

00:55:59Take it off!

00:56:01Take it off!

00:56:04Take it off!

00:56:10Take it off!

00:56:11Take it off!

00:56:13With women dressing like they want.

00:56:15I mean if a woman wants to dress in burqa.

00:56:17What if a woman wants to wear a burqa?

00:56:18If it is her choice then by all means in Israel we have women dressed in full burqa where you

00:56:26can only see the eyes.

00:56:27We have religious Jewish women covering their hair and in traditional wear.

00:56:31And we have modern secular women in bikinis and shorts.

00:56:35And that's totally fine and that's their choice.

00:56:37Okay, fair enough.

00:56:38Jonathan, what about the point though?

00:56:40That's not the point.

00:56:41The point is they're making a spectacle of women being forced to take their burqas off.

00:56:46That's the point.

00:56:47And again, you're willfully ignoring that.

00:56:48Is that the point?

00:56:48You're not a stupid person.

00:56:50Why are you willfully ignoring that?

00:56:51Of course it is.

00:56:52I don't know.

00:56:52Take it off, take it off.

00:56:53What if a woman wearing a burqa walks down the street and encounters any of the people at that demo

00:56:57cheering, take it off, take it off?

00:56:59It's not much more likely that she is going to be subjected to discrimination or persecution or at least feel

00:57:05that she will be subjected to it after a spectacle like that.

00:57:09And that's the point that we're making.

00:57:11Not do you think that women should in theory be allowed to wear burqas.

00:57:15You're willfully ignoring the point because you can't defend that.

00:57:18It's disgusting.

00:57:20There are two more things I want to cover before we finish.

00:57:23You put me in this position of defending a demonstration.

00:57:27You put yourself in that position.

00:57:29You put yourself in that position.

00:57:30But I didn't organise, didn't write the slogans for.

00:57:32No.

00:57:33But I mean, not everything here is something that I would have scripted.

00:57:37Do I support women dressing the way they feel and want to?

00:57:40Yeah.

00:57:40Is that part of my culture?

00:57:42Yes.

00:57:42Do I think that women should be forced to wear clothes by a patriarchal society?

00:57:47No.

00:57:48Do I think that they should be forced to take them off?

00:57:50Also no.

00:57:51It's pretty straightforward.

00:57:52You didn't organise the demo, but you were giving the voice.

00:57:54I want to cover very quickly.

00:57:55You were giving the voice.

00:57:56There are two more things I want to very quickly touch on.

00:57:58And one deserves longer time, but we haven't got time.

00:58:01The New York Times action over this column penned by Nicholas Kristof included allegations

00:58:06of serious sexual abuse of Palestinians in Israeli prisons.

00:58:09Benjamin Netanyahu says that the accusations of one of the most hideous and distorted lies

00:58:13ever published against the state of Israel.

00:58:15He said they defamed the soldiers of Israel and perpetuated the blood libel about rape,

00:58:19trying to create a full symmetry between the genocidal terrorists of Hamas and Israel's

00:58:23valiant soldiers.

00:58:24He also significantly says he is suing the New York Times.

00:58:28So the state of Israel is suing.

00:58:30One question.

00:58:31Are we going to see that lawsuit actually pursued to a court?

00:58:34I hope it does.

00:58:36Because he has threatened this before and then nothing happened.

00:58:39Yeah.

00:58:40Irregardless of Netanyahu as a person, as a prime minister, either it will be the state

00:58:44of Israel.

00:58:45There are a few legal issues that legal hurdles need to be crossed, or it will be by surrogate

00:58:50some organisation in the US which will take it to an American court.

00:58:54I think that's great.

00:58:55Do you believe that Nicholas Kristof, who, as I said to viewers last time we discussed

00:59:00this last week, is a double Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, right?

00:59:03From my experience of dealing with him, a man of methodical journalistic practice, right?

00:59:09So my question for you is a more broad, brushstroke one.

00:59:11Yeah.

00:59:11Are you sure that no IDF soldiers have ever used any sexual violence against Palestinian prisons?

00:59:19Of course not.

00:59:20And I think it would be naive to think that there isn't abuse in Israeli prisons.

00:59:24Okay, good.

00:59:25As there is in every prison around the world.

00:59:27Okay, good.

00:59:28That's an important omission.

00:59:29Well, I mean, it's obvious.

00:59:31And that's what I said on record when they interviewed me in the Free Press and a few

00:59:34other places.

00:59:35And that's why I said at the start, you are one of the more fan-minded people I get on

00:59:38these things.

00:59:38I mean, it's a basic thing.

00:59:39It's a basic thing.

00:59:40Sadly, in incarcerated situations where one party has the force over the other, these things

00:59:46sadly happen.

00:59:47They happen in British prisons, in American, in maybe not in...

00:59:50So Nick Christoph's report could be entirely accurate?

00:59:53No, it isn't.

00:59:53But how do you know?

00:59:54Well, one reason I know...

00:59:56You know it's going on?

00:59:57No, no, no.

00:59:57He's exposed a number of specifics.

00:59:59So one thing, what Christoph did was to try to paint a picture of systemic sexual assault

01:00:05and abuse.

01:00:06Which is...

01:00:06That is...

01:00:07How do you know it's not going on?

01:00:09I'll come to it.

01:00:09He used...

01:00:11The worst of the worst, the icing on his cake, his cake, his rotten cake, was to say

01:00:16that Israel has trained dogs to perform rape, as in, and I'm sorry for being graphic, but

01:00:22that is what he wrote, to actually penetrate humans, dogs actually doing that.

01:00:26There are a list of experienced canine handlers and trainers who are on record saying that

01:00:34it's biologically impossible to get a dog to do.

01:00:38Israel sourced those, and Israel said to the New York Times, are you sure that you want

01:00:42to stick with that ridiculous idea of Israel training dogs?

01:00:46I'm sorry.

01:00:47And then the New York Times said, yes, we're sticking.

01:00:49And that is the reason why Israel is suing.

01:00:51Kieran, before you respond, both Nick Christoph repeatedly and the New York Times repeatedly

01:00:57have 100% stood behind their reporting.

01:01:00Yeah.

01:01:00And what is your...

01:01:02Well, I mean, the idea, first of all, there's a few things here.

01:01:04First of all, the idea that the New York Times, which was for a long time ran by David

01:01:08Remnick, who would be, I think he described himself as a liberal Zionist, but it's publishing

01:01:13a story that is so dramatically or diametrically against Israel's interests that is false.

01:01:20I mean, they know how litigious the state of Israel is.

01:01:23They know that if there's any discrepancy in this whatsoever, they're going to get sued.

01:01:28And so I believe...

01:01:29Well, they're going to get threatened with being sued.

01:01:30They're going to get threatened with...

01:01:31Netanyahu has a history of issuing similar threats that they never tried by.

01:01:36But they never materialised.

01:01:37And that's what's going to happen here.

01:01:39This isn't going to materialise.

01:01:40Because, first of all, there is so much evidence of systemic rape.

01:01:44And he never said, by the way, that the IDF commanders or any members of government had

01:01:49ordered any of this as a systemic practice.

01:01:51He said it goes on.

01:01:52He said it goes on.

01:01:53And you began your defense of this by saying it happened.

01:01:57And by the way, sorry, I have finished my point.

01:01:59I'm just going to come back in.

01:02:00Yeah.

01:02:01The thing you said about canine trainers, there is a lot of evidence which has been confirmed

01:02:06that Augusto Pinochet in Chile...

01:02:09There is none.

01:02:09...used dogs to rape people.

01:02:10I've gone into the Pinochet.

01:02:12I've gone into the allegations from that for you as well.

01:02:15Do you know what?

01:02:16We haven't got the evidence to have, but viewers can go away and look at it.

01:02:18It isn't true.

01:02:18There's a lot of evidence.

01:02:19It is completely false.

01:02:20It is biologically impossible.

01:02:20It's also very interesting that you've looked into it to disprove that it's possible.

01:02:23Of course.

01:02:24Because it's such an absurdity.

01:02:25Maybe because you're concerned that it's going on in Israeli prisons.

01:02:27No, because it's such an absurdity.

01:02:28And it is what catches the minds of ill-informed people that that is possible.

01:02:34Just like the Mossad using dolphins.

01:02:35Filibuster, filibuster, filibuster, filibuster.

01:02:37Just like the Mossad using dolphins.

01:02:39Let me, let me, let me finish my point.

01:02:40You've been waxing on about the cold for ages.

01:02:42No, no, no.

01:02:42You wax on all of the time.

01:02:44The viewers will be able to see that I haven't interrupted you once.

01:02:47I've been very respectful.

01:02:47Because you constantly talk.

01:02:49You never have to interrupt.

01:02:49What you are doing is hectoring every syllable I produce.

01:02:53I urge you again, shut up.

01:02:55Don't use that language.

01:02:56You're in no position to tell anybody to shut up.

01:02:59No, you're in no position to do it.

01:03:00I just did.

01:03:01Yeah, but you're in no position to do it.

01:03:02Listen, let me finish my point.

01:03:03Then you can say whatever you want.

01:03:05There is, there is a great train.

01:03:08There is a great train of systemic, of evidence of systemic rape in Israeli prisons.

01:03:13Absolute nonsense.

01:03:14And I'm going to tell you something else.

01:03:15Absolute nonsense and fabrication.

01:03:16I'm going to tell you something which will blow your mind.

01:03:17Which you'll definitely, you'll definitely dismiss.

01:03:19Absolute nonsense and fabrication.

01:03:20My own brother is a Palestinian who has been sexually assaulted in prison.

01:03:25So, I do not want to hear from you that this doesn't go on or that it isn't systemic,

01:03:29because there is so much evidence that there is.

01:03:31It isn't systemic.

01:03:31Well, to be clear, Jonathan said it does go on.

01:03:35It does go on.

01:03:35And I would argue, once you make that admission, you don't know how much it goes on.

01:03:40Exactly.

01:03:41How can you consider it?

01:03:42All you've conceded is, it happens.

01:03:43But also, there are lots of Palestinian prisoners who say it happens.

01:03:46What I've said is that it's very clear.

01:03:46So then we're arguing about the amount it happens.

01:03:48No, no.

01:03:49We are.

01:03:49We are arguing about two things, Pierce.

01:03:51One is the issue of systemic, like an institutional effort.

01:03:55In order to train dogs, there needs to be a system behind it.

01:03:58And it is the peak of absurdity to make that allegation.

01:04:02But you're fixating on the dogs.

01:04:03I'm fixating on the dogs.

01:04:04You're fixating on the dogs.

01:04:04But what about the humans?

01:04:05By the way, you're interrupting.

01:04:07What about the humans?

01:04:08I'm fixating.

01:04:08I'm focusing on the dogs because it is the most ridiculous and unfounded claim,

01:04:12which is based on a Palestinian guy in Gaza who says so.

01:04:17No forensics.

01:04:18No other evidence.

01:04:20Nothing.

01:04:20Absolutely nonsense.

01:04:21Just a guy, a Palestinian in Gaza, who says this is what happened to you.

01:04:25Let's take stock.

01:04:26Hang on, hang on.

01:04:27You don't get to win two Pulitzer Prize by just asking any old guy to tell any old story.

01:04:32He went over there.

01:04:33He interviewed these people.

01:04:35He is standing by his reporting.

01:04:36And today, all I've seen is a massive snare campaign against Nick Kristoff.

01:04:41Yeah.

01:04:41Again, you're not looking at...

01:04:42Again, have a serious dog expert.

01:04:45I'm seeing a former...

01:04:46Have a serious dog expert, someone who actually knows about it,

01:04:49and ask him the real question.

01:04:51You can get real graphical and detailed.

01:04:53Can I quit?

01:04:53Go to facts.

01:04:54You usually bring experts and you have someone with, you know, a certain...

01:04:57Dog experts.

01:04:58For God's sake.

01:04:59A certain level of expertise.

01:05:00Can I ask you a question, Jonathan?

01:05:00Did you really think, when you first started to learn about your country, about Israel,

01:05:06that you would be on television 40 years, 30 years later, having to argue that dog experts

01:05:11can't verify whether Israeli prison guards use dogs to rape Palestinians?

01:05:16I mean, that is the country, unfortunately, that you have become.

01:05:19I'll tell you what.

01:05:19You're having to come on television and talk about that.

01:05:20It's not what we've become.

01:05:21It's what a lot of people around the world...

01:05:23No, no.

01:05:23There is a meat ride...

01:05:25I haven't finished my question yet.

01:05:26Okay.

01:05:26Well, of course.

01:05:26It's a long one in three sections.

01:05:27I'm just going to put a quick appendage there.

01:05:29Yeah.

01:05:30There's an archipelago of prisons in Israel that churns out disturbed, tortured, sexually abused

01:05:37Palestinian prisoners.

01:05:38I would say that there's a disturbed system called the Palestinian education system that

01:05:43churns out mass murderers and terrorists.

01:05:45It's called the State of Israel.

01:05:45That's a real problem.

01:05:46It's called the State of Israel.

01:05:46No, no.

01:05:47It's called the Palestinian Authority and Onrust Rule.

01:05:49It's a military industrial complex that is moving further and further towards some

01:05:51That's what you should be looking into.

01:05:52You should be looking into why are you part of a society that produces mass murderers,

01:05:58that produces suicide bombers, that produces people that are willing to say Allah-u-Akbar

01:06:03and go stab somebody.

01:06:04The reason I don't need to shout over you over and over again is because I know how hollow what

01:06:08you're

01:06:08saying sounds to most of them are.

01:06:09We're moving off into a wider territory, which we haven't got time to explore properly,

01:06:13so to be fair to both of you, let's end on a sort of weird, slightly lighter note,

01:06:17which is one question for each other.

01:06:18As if this wasn't weird enough.

01:06:19Well, Eurovision, right?

01:06:21So the New York Times has reported their investigation found a well-organized campaign

01:06:25by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government that embraced Eurovision as a soft power tool.

01:06:30Israel just came second again.

01:06:32Did you listen to the Israeli performance this year and last year?

01:06:35And do you honestly think?

01:06:37And I speak as somebody who used to judge America's Got Talent and Britain's Got Talent

01:06:41and is happy to say the British entry this year was one of the worst things I've ever watched in

01:06:45my life.

01:06:45Do you honestly believe that Israel had the second best performing act in the last two years?

01:06:51Or do you think they could be, could be, Jonathan, not a conspiracy theorist,

01:06:55but perhaps a bit of an online campaign that suited the Israeli government to have Israel finish in a better

01:07:02place,

01:07:03which will reflect better on the country at a time when they're becoming increasingly unpopular?

01:07:07Yeah, you know, I'm not a big Eurovision Song Contest fan.

01:07:10My late grandmother, she was a big fan. It was a big festivity every night, every time it was, special

01:07:16cake and everything.

01:07:17I never really found the attraction to it.

01:07:19I understand that people think it's important.

01:07:24I've seen it a few times and I don't think that overall there's masterpieces in music performance there.

01:07:29Not a big fan of any of the countries.

01:07:31Would it surprise you?

01:07:32But I will say it's this.

01:07:34Would it surprise you if the Israeli government had not done a few things to try and boost the Israeli

01:07:40vote?

01:07:40What is, I don't know, but what I think is appalling, what I think is appalling is how politicised...

01:07:47Don't call for a canine handler to investigate.

01:07:49What I think is appalling is that other countries have boycotted the event just because Israel is part of it.

01:07:56I think that is small, that it is small, it is really pitiful.

01:08:02And I think it's become a very politicised event.

01:08:05So whether or not Israel did this, I don't know.

01:08:08What's incredibly pitiful is, first of all, it's very obvious that there's a coordinated campaign.

01:08:12And it's part of, I mean, it's consistent with what the Israelis have always called Hasbara.

01:08:17You know, it's part of the soft power thing.

01:08:19So it's very consistent with that.

01:08:21But I think what's pitiful is that Israel is still allowed to participate in a Eurovision song contest.

01:08:26First of all, why is it European?

01:08:28We're constantly told that the only place Israel could have been was in Palestine, which is in the Middle East.

01:08:33So what's going on there?

01:08:34In Israel, I think.

01:08:34Second of all...

01:08:35The land of Israel.

01:08:35Second of all, well, it wasn't that.

01:08:37It wasn't called that.

01:08:37It wasn't called that for 1917.

01:08:38It wasn't called that for 1917.

01:08:40For the British gave it to you.

01:08:41Long, long before.

01:08:41And then...

01:08:42Check your Bible.

01:08:43And then aside from that...

01:08:46I'm actually an atheist.

01:08:48We're not getting into the geopolitical history of the Middle East.

01:08:50Aside from that, the European Cup.

01:08:52I mean, Israel, which has been committing the worst genocide of the 21st century for the past three years.

01:08:57Again, absolute nonsense.

01:08:57And I will interrupt you when you spew this nonsense.

01:09:00Why should it be allowed to participate in European competitions?

01:09:03It ought to be kicked out.

01:09:04And shame on any country that doesn't do what Spain did and make a point of saying,

01:09:09we're not going to participate in this until that blood-soaked genocidal country is forced to step out of it.

01:09:15Absolute nonsense.

01:09:16And boycotts the...

01:09:17You know what, though?

01:09:18I don't remember...

01:09:19I don't remember...

01:09:20But I'm not surprised that the New Times came with that story.

01:09:22Well, hang on, hang on.

01:09:22I'm actually going to say something that you'll like.

01:09:24Because I don't remember when I was leading the media campaign against the Iraq War in 2003 against the Blair

01:09:29government.

01:09:30I don't remember the world queuing up to ban the UK from these competitions.

01:09:35Well, I think we...

01:09:36And I'm afraid, given that we took part...

01:09:38And you flew half the world away.

01:09:40And given we took part in an illegal war, which cost a million lives, you could argue that we should

01:09:45have been held to the same account.

01:09:46People are now holding Israel...

01:09:48Well, that's the golden double standard.

01:09:49If they believe that Israel should not be...

01:09:51Where was Spain in demanding that the UK be dropped from these things?

01:09:55Well, that's a separate case.

01:09:56Actually, I think that that's a very solid point.

01:09:59There's something to be explored there.

01:10:01I think that a World Cup in the United States right now is not justified.

01:10:05And I do think...

01:10:06Well, the problem is...

01:10:07And I do think that we should look more into it.

01:10:08I think the problem is, honestly, the problem is, once you start using war or conflict or other issues as

01:10:13a reason to ban it...

01:10:14Yeah, but Israel's a very special case, Pierce.

01:10:16It's a special case because it has so many haters.

01:10:18That's the only special case.

01:10:19But then you start adding all sorts of other countries you don't like.

01:10:21It's a very special case.

01:10:22I can make a point for you as to why it's a special case.

01:10:25Look, there were eight countries in the Qatar World Cup.

01:10:29There was a huge row about the way that Qatar...

01:10:31What about Russia?

01:10:32Well, hang on, hang on, hang on.

01:10:34It was a huge argument.

01:10:36I was there at the Qatar World Cup.

01:10:37Did you go to Russia?

01:10:38Hang on.

01:10:38One, there was a huge row in Qatar because Qatar outlaws homosexuality.

01:10:44Yeah.

01:10:44And I made the point, wow, eight of the 32 teams that are competing in this World Cup ban or

01:10:52outlaw homosexuality.

01:10:54Most of the African countries are.

01:10:55Are you going to throw them all out of the competition?

01:10:57And if you're not, stop being a hypocrite.

01:11:00No, my point is that that doesn't meet the threshold.

01:11:02But double standards and hypocrites.

01:11:03Well, it might do to gay people.

01:11:05It might do to gay people.

01:11:06But no, but my point is this.

01:11:07Israel's a very special case.

01:11:08It uses sporting events.

01:11:10It uses events like Eurovision to whitewash its reputation while it actively commits a case.

01:11:15I think, you know what, I think...

01:11:16What about Russia?

01:11:17I think, honestly...

01:11:17What did you think about Russia?

01:11:18I sort of agreed, yeah.

01:11:20You think they should have been kicked out?

01:11:21Yeah, I think there are instances where it should happen, but it should be...

01:11:23Surely Israel meets that.

01:11:25But it should be morally consistent.

01:11:26But I agree with you.

01:11:28But I think Russia and Israel are two very, very special cases.

01:11:30Well, Russia, well, the difference, I would argue that the difference is simply that in the case of Russia's invasion

01:11:35of Ukraine,

01:11:35there would be no attack on the Russians in Russia, right, from Ukrainians.

01:11:40You'd accept that.

01:11:42Whereas the Israeli...

01:11:44I think the key point...

01:11:44...was the Israeli attacks on Gaza.

01:11:46I think that the key point...

01:11:47Specific attacks, which we now...

01:11:48No, I know.

01:11:49Listen, we don't need to do that.

01:11:50...followed October the 7th.

01:11:51So there was a difference.

01:11:52What I would say, Pierce, before, is that...

01:11:55Major difference.

01:11:55The one that's conveniently overlooked, and I just came back from the NOVA exhibition here.

01:11:58Jonathan, you're just mumbling at this point.

01:12:00No, I'm not told it's very powerful.

01:12:02Can I just make my point?

01:12:02Well, Paul, I think it's a great reminder of how this started.

01:12:05It's a great reminder of why Gaza is like it is.

01:12:07It's a great reminder, Jonathan.

01:12:10You're asking the audience...

01:12:11I've got to wrap it up.

01:12:12But let me just say this.

01:12:12You're asking the audience to wander in at the beginning of the third act.

01:12:15What about the colonization?

01:12:16Which is a systematic merger of Palestine.

01:12:19Guys, we don't have time for the whole history of the Middle East in conflict.

01:12:226% in 1917.

01:12:22I'm grateful to you both for coming in.

01:12:24Thank you very much.

01:12:27Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent.

01:12:29The only boss around here is me.

01:12:31If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

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01:12:40And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

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01:12:49And we couldn't do it without you.

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01:12:54We'll see you next time.

01:12:58Bye.

Piers Morgan Uncensored - Season 4 Episode 230 - Season 4 Episode 230

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