00:00Bradley, thank you so much for joining us.
00:02And I want to start with talking about two of the companies that every investor is trying
00:07to get into these days and talking about as they race to go public.
00:10That is, of course, OpenAI and Anthropic.
00:13You are one of the few people, I think one of only two really, through your firm, Wisdom
00:18Ventures, that invested early in both of them.
00:21So just talk about how you found those two iconic companies early on.
00:26Well, I think, first of all, let me thank you.
00:29It's a wonderful honor to be with you today, and I really greatly appreciate it.
00:36We had known about Sam Altman and OpenAI really since the beginning.
00:40I think many of us in the industry that have been working on AI have been tracking the progress
00:45that they had made.
00:46The firm didn't exist when they were founded.
00:49I think had it existed, we'd have been in even earlier.
00:52But we had a longstanding relationship with Sam, and that includes not only myself.
00:57I knew him from the early days of Y Combinator when he was CEO of Looped.
01:02I think they were in the second Y Combinator cohort.
01:05My partner, Soren, had an independent relationship with Sam, and my partner, Jack, had an independent
01:10relationship with Sam.
01:11And as we thought about investing for impact, not just financial impact, but societal impact,
01:18we realized that AI was going to have a bigger impact than almost anything else across the
01:23board from everything from the economy and huge fractions of GDP.
01:30It was going to be a disruptive force in the world.
01:32And that getting involved would not only be lucrative financially, but also we aspire to
01:38have an influence on the future direction of these companies.
01:42And so what really entailed investing was approaching Sam and having a conversation about the values and
01:50ethics of the firm, what he was up to and wanted to do.
01:53And one thing led to another, and we were privileged to get in, not early, but early enough that we've
02:01seen huge
02:01appreciation in that position.
02:03We were part of the, I believe, the $29 billion round.
02:08And of course, by many measures, OpenAI is approaching a trillion-dollar valuation today.
02:15What was interesting is we then approached Anthropic.
02:17And as well understood, Anthropic is sort of founded on a values-based approach toward making sure that AI has
02:28good
02:28outcomes for society.
02:30And what's really unusual is investing in both OpenAI and Anthropic.
02:36So we weren't sure if that would work for them.
02:39We were sure it would work for us because our goal is not to pick a single winner.
02:45The ethics of the firm really want humanity itself to be the winner.
02:49So we felt we could participate fully in both companies and really steer both of them towards better outcomes.
02:57And we were delighted that Anthropic accepted our investment.
03:02In that one, we got in on the $18 billion round.
03:07And as you know, Anthropic today is also approaching a trillion dollars market cap.
03:12So just really feel privileged and lucky to have been tracking those companies and to have had the audacity to
03:21ask both of them if we might be present on the cap table.
03:25And we're delighted to watch their progress over the years since we've invested.
03:29Yeah, because you alluded to this, but traditionally there's been a prohibition in Silicon Valley against investing in competing companies
03:36early.
03:37Did you have to go ask, you know, SAM or OpenAI for permission to also invest in Anthropic?
03:45Yes.
03:45You know, they prohibited that for a while.
03:47Yeah, we did.
03:48We did talk to both of them.
03:50And we wanted to ensure that it was okay and also that we were clear on our intentions.
03:58And obviously, we are not privy to the deep, dark secrets of either company.
04:04And we're certainly not a vector for any information to flow between them.
04:08And once the companies understood our intentions, I think it was an easy yes from both of them.
04:13Well, fast forward to today, and you've just announced a third fund, $77 million.
04:20Congratulations on that.
04:22And it's really interesting, I think, what you're doing with this fund.
04:26Because after spending, you know, 15 years at Google developing the products that are so ubiquitous in our lives, like
04:32Google Photos, Google News, and of course, investing in these big AI companies,
04:37you are now focusing on tech-centered wellness to get people off their screens.
04:43So tell us about that.
04:44Yeah, I'm really excited about Wisdom Ventures.
04:47And you said it.
04:49There really is a loneliness epidemic right now.
04:52And I think some of that is accountable to tech.
04:55We have sort of a scrolling, doom-scrolling epidemic right now.
04:59And one of the things we did was bring on the former Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy.
05:05And he was Surgeon General under Obama and Biden.
05:08And he wrote a book on the loneliness epidemic and the impact it's having on humanity.
05:13And it turns out that social isolation leads to extremely bad health outcomes.
05:19It's sort of equivalent to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day.
05:22And so it's not just a mental health crisis.
05:24It really is a physical health crisis as well.
05:26So as we think about tech-enabled wellness, one of the categories we're excited about is getting people away from
05:33screens and into their community in real life.
05:37And so we've done this sort of in a couple ways.
05:39Our portfolio includes companies like the Light Phone, which is a reduced feature set phone.
05:44So you can actually call the babysitter and navigate to the restaurant, but you don't sit there doom-scrolling.
05:51You're actually present with your companion.
05:54Another one is a screen-saving app called Opal, which sort of sets up self-imposed barriers to certain apps
06:03at certain times so that you can actually keep honest to the focus that you want to have.
06:08And then other applications are things like REC.
06:12REC is, as in Parks and REC, R-E-C.
06:15REC is a startup that is helping people get off of screens and out into their communities to play recreational
06:21sports.
06:22They sell this to the Parks and REC departments, which are either using no software at all or antiquated software.
06:29And these are ex-Uber executives that basically said, why can't I order a pickleball game the same way I
06:35order an Uber?
06:36I want to play at 3 o'clock with a terrible C-minus player, like myself, within 3 kilometers of
06:42my home.
06:43And then it will find the player, match you up, and then key to this is reserve the court.
06:49It's actually the municipality that purchased their software.
06:52And that one is off to the races and thriving.
06:56They're just about to embark on a fundraise, and we're really excited about that.
07:01But it's an example of something we never imagined we'd be investing in sports tech.
07:05But when we met the founders, who were incredibly compelling, and really thought about the application, it gets people off
07:13screens, exercising in their communities.
07:17And it was sort of check, check, check, check.
07:20And so we're thrilled to be part of that and other applications like that.
07:24But when we say tech-enabled wellness, it's a pretty broad aperture.
07:28You know, it's not just around loneliness or social isolation or mental health.
07:32We want to fund tech that's good for people, and we think that's a very broad category.
07:37And it's a little bit of we know it when we see it.
07:41But our LPs are obviously comfortable trusting us with that judgment, and we're excited about the category.
07:50And, you know, I always ask VCs what they look for in founders, and usually it's always the same things,
07:57you know, grit, resilience.
07:59But I thought your answer when we spoke earlier was so interesting because you said you look for people who've
08:04been in kitchens, which I thought was a metaphor, but it's actually literal.
08:08So just explain that and what you look for in founders.
08:12It is true.
08:13And, you know, by the time a candidate reached me at Google, I knew they were valedictorian and perfect SATs
08:21and gold medal in the Olympics or some, you know, set of extraordinary achievements.
08:25And what I wanted to test, having been through all the normal things and pedigrees, is sort of what is
08:33this person like under stress?
08:35And what is it going to be like to do a complicated journey into the unknown with this person as
08:42my teammate and companion?
08:43And so a lot of what I looked for were examples in their background that showed they could deal with
08:50not only complexity in terms of algorithms and, you know, managing projects, but really sort of being in the trenches
08:59in stressful situations and thriving there.
09:02And so I do think kitchens are one great example.
09:05It wasn't, you know, mandatory.
09:06It's not like everybody who worked at Google under me was a sort of former sous chef or something.
09:14But I think kitchens are great examples because you have angry, hungry customers.
09:19You have knives and fire.
09:21You have the time constraints of getting the food out in a timely fashion.
09:27So all of the dynamics of sort of high-intensity startup life are sort of manifest in a kitchen on
09:34a daily basis.
09:34So there can be other sort of examples, but I was always probing and digging for something beyond the pedigree
09:41that helped me understand who this person was and how they were going to react when it all fell apart.
09:49You also said you apply something called the flat tire test.
09:53Explain to our viewers what that is.
09:55Yeah, this is fun.
09:57And it's something we all know.
09:59There are certain friends where if you embark on a journey, you're on a road trip, and in the second
10:05hour you get a flat tire, some people are really a drag and like, I can't believe our bad luck
10:11and this is terrible.
10:12And then there are other people for whom, oh, my God, the adventure begins and we're going to tell our
10:19grandkids about this.
10:20And, you know, they're sort of into the spirit of let's make lemonade from the lemons.
10:26Let's turn this into an epic adventure.
10:30And you want to be with those people because inevitably on this journey, and I think never more than this
10:36moment, we just don't have much horizon visible to us.
10:41You know, we don't know what the future is going to look like.
10:43And so I want to be with people that when it all falls apart or goes a different direction than
10:49we anticipated, their attitude is to roll up their sleeves and let's get to work as opposed to being, you
10:56know, freaked out or bummed out or deer in the headlights.
11:01Well, and lastly, Bradley, I just want to ask about you.
11:05You just celebrated a birthday.
11:07You know, you had such a successful career at Google.
11:10You've done these amazing investments.
11:12You could obviously afford to retire and spend time in that lovely home and elsewhere.
11:19But you, you know, are going more than ever.
11:22You're very focused on wisdom with this third fund and investing institutionally now.
11:27And I'm just curious, you know, what keeps you going?
11:30Why you still love the thrill of venture?
11:34What keeps me going, first of all, I've made every mistake in the book.
11:38I've been an academic, an entrepreneur myself.
11:40I've acquired companies.
11:42I've helped companies get acquired.
11:44Angel investor, now institutional investor.
11:47I've seen a lot in my day and it would sort of be criminal to just sort of walk off
11:54with the battle scars and the harder knowledge that I've acquired.
11:57So I feel some amount of duty to sort of help people that are smarter and more capable than I
12:04am not make the same mistakes I've already made on their behalf.
12:07So a big part of this is just a sense of duty.
12:11And part of it is the asymmetry, something that's super easy for me can make a big difference for them.
12:17And that's sort of the privileged position where I find myself today is I feel like I've got all this
12:23hard earned knowledge and it would be sort of inconscionable to just walk off with it.
12:28I can open the door for other super capable people.
12:31The other answer to that really is around the mission of Wisdom Ventures and my partners.
12:37I work with an extremely talented group of people that are all mission oriented.
12:43None of them are doing this for profit.
12:47We are all doing it because we care deeply about the mission and are techno realists, but have an optimism
12:54that there's a lot more that can be done to help people thrive and flourish with technology.
13:00And we're incredibly confident of that and seeing that manifest in our portfolio.
13:04So what gets me excited is spending time with these founders.
13:08These founders are amazing and it's an absolute privilege to work with them, to give them a little bit of
13:14fuel and a little bit of wisdom along the way and then watch them run.
13:19And when it works, it's just it's absolutely thrilling.
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