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Britains Almost Perfect Murders - Season 1 - Episode 07: The Christmas Day Killing
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00:01The perfect murder, the unsolvable crime, does it really exist?
00:07In a TV first, we reveal the cutting-edge technology now used by British police to join the dots
00:15and reveal new evidence in all homicide investigations.
00:19I'm Tim Tate. I've been an investigative journalist for almost 50 years.
00:26I'm Sam Robbins, and I'm a criminal intelligence analyst.
00:30For over 20 years, I've worked alongside detectives on major murder investigations.
00:34Together, in this new series, we are going to discover the fatal mistakes
00:39which prevented the perfect murder from ever being committed.
01:16It was Christmas Eve 1999, and about 4am, my phone rang.
01:21It was explained to me that there'd been a shooting at a nightclub in town.
01:25One person was dead.
01:27We knew in the first hour that this was a guy called Jason Hill.
01:32All the media attention was built on the last Christmas of the millennium,
01:37building up to the year 2000.
01:40It was massive.
01:42So a murder taking place on Christmas Day had very little coverage.
01:47A lot of people, several years later, didn't even realise that this had taken place.
01:53It was almost like it was buried.
02:01The murder of Jason Hill.
02:04If ever there was a case which exemplified how a perfect murder turns into an almost perfect one,
02:14surely this is it?
02:16Absolutely.
02:17And in this particular case, we are talking about two murders.
02:23Let's set the scene.
02:24We're in Leicester, but this isn't normal middle class Leicester, is it?
02:30No.
02:31All of the individuals that we're going to talk about were heavily involved in the gangland scene in Leicester.
02:38So lots of violence, lots of threatening behaviour, lots of drugs and lots of firearms.
02:46It's in two blocks, isn't it?
02:49Yes, because in this particular case, we're looking at two separate murders that happened over a period of four or
02:57five years.
02:58Hill himself, let's start with him.
03:02Yeah.
03:02He's what?
03:03So Jason is part of a Leicester gang.
03:08There are several, two of which have got a particular issue with each other.
03:13He is not shy at all of threatening people and using violence in order to admit power and control over
03:22people,
03:23in order that he can deal drugs and go around his daily business in gangland, in gangland terms, without too
03:33much interference.
03:37The victim, Jason Hill, was an interesting guy.
03:41He was well known to the police.
03:43He'd served time in prison.
03:45He was an ex-soldier.
03:46I think he'd done some tours in Northern Ireland.
03:50But probably the most important thing that we knew about him was that there was a murder several years earlier,
03:56a murder of a guy called Eugene Hines.
03:59And Eugene Hines was shot and beaten.
04:02And Jason Hill stood trial for this.
04:06Eugene Hines was part of the opposing gangland group.
04:10Now, Hines had taken issue with Jason Hill and, at some point, had threatened Jason Hill's baby son with a
04:18handgun.
04:19That's an absolute no-no.
04:21There is a code.
04:22And you don't break that code.
04:24And when you do break that code, there are consequences.
04:27And part of that code is you do not mess with people's families.
04:31Because the minute you do that, it's game on.
04:35It's certainly something within the kind of culture of these criminal fraternities that it can be almost a badge of
04:43honour.
04:43And to not commit the crime, in some respects, is worse than actually carrying out the murder and being caught.
04:50Because people have to maintain this level of authority and control over situations.
04:57And they have to be able to see where they are in this kind of hierarchy amongst criminal gangs.
05:04So, Jason Hill has already started to plot out what he is hoping is going to be a perfect murder.
05:11He arranges for Hines, essentially, to be abducted.
05:15So, he's giving himself an alibi and himself and another accomplice of his go to hospital to visit a friend.
05:23So, at the time that Hines is abducted, should the police look into that, Jason Hill is nowhere near that
05:29scene.
05:30Oh, he's free and clear.
05:31Free and clear.
05:32Free and clear. Not only free and clear, he'll be available on CCTV, covered by the hospital.
05:38Hines gets taken out to a field.
05:41He does. A fairly remote location where Hill then joins his other two accomplices.
05:49Hines is forced out of the car and while he's pleading, essentially, for his life, he's shot twice with a
05:56shotgun.
05:58But Hines is alive and so, not one to shy away from violence, Jason Hill takes the butt of the
06:05gun and beats Hines around the head with her until he's dead.
06:09Somebody witnesses this, though, don't they?
06:12There is a passing car who actually witnesses the murder taking place.
06:16How random is that?
06:18It just goes to show you that, actually, you can take all the steps that you want to plan a
06:22perfect murder, but you can't control the actions of other people.
06:27Hill and his accomplices are arrested very quickly.
06:30Yes. The way that this particular situation plays out is that the driver of the vehicle decides that he's going
06:38to try and get an out here and he tells police,
06:42I'll tell you what happened. Yes, I drove the car. Hill was responsible for the murder.
06:47We were told that he was just going to be taken out to a field and beaten up.
06:51We had no idea, no knowledge, that he was actually going to be murdered.
06:57So the driver confesses to his part in the incident.
07:02So he's trying to get, basically, to work a plea deal.
07:05Absolutely, yes.
07:07And that goes forward and it goes to trial.
07:09So obviously you've got the witness, the driver who was passing at the time.
07:13You've got the driver of the vehicle that was used to abduct Eugene Hines.
07:18So when it gets to trial, three of the key witnesses don't turn up to court.
07:26The gang had got to them first quite clearly.
07:29And the result is?
07:30And the result is, is that the trial falls over.
07:34So at that point, really the only thing that the prosecution have got to rely on
07:39is the fact that they've secured CCTV evidence of Hill at the hospital,
07:44which is what he wanted them to do.
07:46The case then just wasn't that strong and Jason Hill is acquitted of the murder.
07:51He walks free?
07:52He does walk free.
07:54What happens to the driver?
07:55The driver who's, um, who's turned Queen's evidence is jailed because he's pleaded guilty.
08:00So the one person out of that trio involved in that incident,
08:05who, for whatever means, you can, you can think, you know,
08:10nefarious means he was trying to get, get himself a plea,
08:13it backfired spectacularly and he went to prison.
08:16So if you're Jason Hill, you're free and clear.
08:20You're the king of the castle by that point, aren't you?
08:23Jason Hill had got away with the perfect murder.
08:25Yes.
08:28So Hill had murdered Eugene Hines.
08:30Eugene Hines was a well-known criminal around Leicester.
08:34Eugene Hines' family and associates held Hill responsible.
08:38And it was known as well that Hill had boasted of this murder to people.
08:42But back in those days, there was no double jeopardy.
08:44There was no chance of a second go.
08:47The law as it stood then, the double jeopardy law,
08:51meant that Hill could not be tried twice for the same offence.
08:57And that meant, in his mind at least, he got away with the perfect murder.
09:04Four years passes and we come to Christmas night, 1999.
09:15My two children were five years old and two years old.
09:19We stayed in for Christmas Eve.
09:21Christmas Day was going to be a family day, but I was on call.
09:25And about 4 a.m. my phone rang.
09:28The immediate information we got was that one man had been shot.
09:33He'd been shot in the back of the head.
09:34And another man had also sustained injuries.
09:38And he'd gone to hospital.
09:40We didn't know what had happened.
09:41So we were faced with a really, really difficult crime scene.
09:47It took place at the Eden nightclub,
09:49a club that was rented out for one-off occasions.
09:53There was an upstairs area where there was a big bar.
09:57And downstairs with Dad's floor.
09:59It was a pretty decent-sized room.
10:02And I know that the people who came over from Birmingham
10:05who'd arranged it had literally rented it out for that night.
10:09A lot of the staff were from Birmingham.
10:11They weren't local.
10:12So I didn't know any of the people in there, the customers in there.
10:17When you're in charge of these investigations,
10:19your head goes into overdrive in terms of what you need to do.
10:23Because we need scene management, we need forensic examiners,
10:27we need detectives calling out.
10:29We've got the person in the Royal Infirmary
10:31who we don't know what's happened.
10:33And he needs, obviously, protecting
10:34because there could be a further risk to him.
10:38Then you've got to have a calm thought through,
10:42harvesting the evidence and start to hypothesise what's happened.
10:45And they're almost a conflict in themselves.
10:49So what we saw was a guy who'd been shot in the back of the head.
10:55Now, those kind of things don't happen by accident, generally.
10:58It became fairly obvious this was deliberate.
11:03The word on the ground was, it's Jason Hill,
11:05and indeed it was Jason Hill.
11:20Jason Hill spoke openly about being in fear of his life.
11:24He said, I know that Eugene Hines' associates are going to come after me.
11:31But that didn't stop him shooting his mouth off.
11:34He bragged about having killed Eugene Hines.
11:39He boasted about how he'd got away with the perfect murder.
11:47So often people who are involved in organised crime
11:50find their way into this quite murky sort of underworld.
11:54And it certainly takes a certain level of bravery,
11:58of kind of quite sort of macho character to do that.
12:03And very often in these situations,
12:05you see that these people have to often deal with other characters.
12:09And there's often the excitement and the draw of it
12:12is about this kind of battle between power and supremacy
12:16between these people.
12:17So often we see that these are quite dominant,
12:20sensitive people who see themselves as somebody
12:23who's willing to take on other people
12:25from other criminal fraternities.
12:31Jason Hill had come in the club
12:32and he was causing problems.
12:35And there was a group of people there
12:39who were friends of a previous murder victim
12:43called Eugene Hines.
12:50Hill's inside in the early hours.
12:53He's mouthing off.
12:54On the dance floor.
12:56Objectionable.
12:57Yeah.
12:58Arrogant.
12:58Yes.
12:59And he's overheard, isn't he?
13:01He's spotted.
13:02He is.
13:03And he is also in the club that night
13:05are James Goodman and Shane Heskey.
13:08Because of the community that these people operate in,
13:12they decided that they were going to really teach him a lesson.
13:15And they went and retrieved a gun
13:18from a local house of someone that they knew.
13:21And remarkably, got back into the club with a gun.
13:26They are then back on the dance floor
13:28and on an absolute packed dance floor
13:32at four o'clock in the morning,
13:33they shoot Jason Hill.
13:37The shooting took place on the downstairs dance floor
13:41of the nightclub.
13:42The bullet penetrated Jason Hill's skull
13:48and it exited his face.
13:51I think it was his cheek.
13:53And it hit a guy called Carl Milfs,
13:58who was seriously injured as a result of that.
14:01It created absolute panic.
14:07When a firearm is used in a case,
14:10then the energies that are involved
14:13with that interaction are enormous.
14:16So it naturally, therefore,
14:19increases the potential and ability
14:22for forensic evidence to be distributed
14:25in that crime scene.
14:26So as an example,
14:27if I shoot someone at close range,
14:31then there are a number of interactions
14:33that can take place.
14:35First of all,
14:36the weapon can leave traces of itself
14:38onto the victim.
14:40And the victim can leave traces of themselves
14:43onto the weapon
14:44and the person firing that weapon.
14:46This includes blood traces,
14:49which are very often transferred
14:51in the form of blood spatter,
14:53tiny little droplets of blood
14:55that transfer back
14:56from the person who has been injured.
15:00And if I stand close enough to my victim,
15:03those little tiny droplets of blood
15:05can be deposited onto the weapon,
15:08they can be deposited onto me
15:09as the person firing that weapon,
15:11and they can be sucked into the barrel
15:14of that weapon
15:16and deposited on parts of that firearm
15:20that might not necessarily be available to us
15:24when the weapon is in its relaxed state.
15:26So that very complex exchange of material
15:31in this very high-energy environment
15:35means that forensics firearms investigation
15:39can be very complex,
15:41but can lead to a seam and a wealth
15:44of forensic evidence.
15:49Ordinarily, with a shooting,
15:50you would get massive media coverage,
15:52but on Christmas Day,
15:53the media don't want bad news stories.
15:56It's all happy-clappy.
15:57So we didn't really get much media coverage,
16:00even though we did try.
16:01So you can see,
16:02apart from the detective bits of thinking,
16:05how do I investigate this,
16:06you've simply got a logistical bit
16:08about get me resources out.
16:12The senior investigating officer at the SIO,
16:15there's a murderer on the dance floor.
16:17Yes.
16:18It's the early hours of Christmas morning.
16:20How difficult would it have been for him
16:23to round up enough troops
16:26to deal with that situation?
16:28Yeah, I can imagine
16:29it would have been incredibly difficult,
16:30and what you've got to think of
16:32is you're not just dealing
16:34with the incident of the gun,
16:36so it's not just about the victim
16:37and potential suspects.
16:40This club, you have got
16:42hundreds of potential witnesses,
16:45and I've dealt with an incident similar to this,
16:47and one of the most critical parts of that
16:51was plotting out
16:52who was in the closest vicinity at the time
16:56and who would have seen what,
16:58who would have seen people leaving,
17:00and the plotting of those witnesses in a club
17:03is a really tricky and detailed thing to do,
17:06but you have to have the statements
17:08from the witnesses in the first place
17:10in order to do that.
17:11And to get the statements,
17:12you have to have the officers on the scene.
17:15Absolutely.
17:18This wasn't an ordinary Christmas.
17:20This was a millennium year.
17:21So ordinarily, you have Christmas Day
17:23and Boxing Day and bank holidays,
17:24which become very expensive resources,
17:27and then you have New Year's Day.
17:29That's it, three bank holidays in that period.
17:31This one, I think there were seven or eight
17:33because of how it fell with weekends
17:35and Christmas being on a certain time.
17:37So the first thing,
17:39there's going to be a massive cost.
17:41The second thing, police officers,
17:44the police staff,
17:45certainly in my experience,
17:46they love working overtime.
17:48You know, they're very happy to come overtime.
17:50On any day you want,
17:51they'll work 20 hours a day,
17:53except Christmas Day.
17:55Christmas Day is different,
17:56and it really is for most people.
17:58It's a day when it's family, it's kids,
18:01it's wider friendship,
18:02and it's not a day when you want to come to work.
18:06I was actually out on Christmas Eve.
18:09I got home about,
18:11probably,
18:13around 3.30 a.m.,
18:15and I was looking forward to a nice lie-in
18:17and then get up at lunchtime
18:18and have Christmas dinner,
18:20the usual thing,
18:21with the family.
18:24So I'd literally only had about an hour's sleep
18:27when there was a knock on the door
18:29and we realised there was a police officer,
18:32uniformed police officer on the door,
18:34and then straight to the police station.
18:39It was probably one of the biggest logistical challenges
18:41I've had in terms of a major incident
18:44because on Christmas Day,
18:46certainly then,
18:47nothing is open,
18:48absolutely nothing,
18:50not petrol stations,
18:51not McDonald's,
18:51and there's no way to get food for staff.
18:54What we did do,
18:55we said to everyone,
18:56if someone can bring you some food in,
18:58one guy got a full roast turkey dinner,
19:01another guy,
19:02his wife cooked some lobster for him.
19:08Goodman and Heskey
19:10have committed murder.
19:12Witnesses on the night
19:15hear him say,
19:17I've done what I needed to do.
19:19Goodman hands Heskey the gun
19:20and the club very,
19:22very quickly empties
19:24with people trying to get out of there
19:26as quickly as possible
19:27as you can imagine,
19:27like all-out panic
19:28must break out at that point.
19:31But Goodman and Heskey
19:32use that chaos
19:35in order to leave the club
19:38in a manner which they feel
19:41was not going to get them spotted.
19:44They have it on their toes?
19:45Yes.
19:45They literally flee the club
19:47along with everybody else.
19:52Investigations these days,
19:54the starting point tends to be digital.
19:56It's about mobile phones,
19:58ANPR, CCTV.
20:00This was 25 years ago.
20:02None of these things
20:03were as sophisticated as they are now.
20:05But we started to do a CCTV
20:08trawl.
20:09And Leicester City
20:10had an embryonic CCTV system
20:12so we got onto the operators there
20:14and they were magnificent.
20:17There they were immediately
20:18at four in the morning
20:19as the incident was being reported.
20:21They got the cameras on
20:22and they started looking at people.
20:24And they did some recording
20:25which without that
20:26I think the trial
20:27would have been a far more difficult
20:28trial to do.
20:30We got intelligence to say
20:32that Goodman had fired the gun
20:35and there was CCTV footage
20:39recovered through the city centre
20:41showing Heskey and Goodman together
20:44walking away from the nightclub
20:45and walking in the general direction
20:47of Beaver Street,
20:48Gramby Street.
20:50But it was almost like
20:53you walk away from somewhere
20:54and you know exactly where you're going
20:56and you walk directly
20:57but they weren't walking directly.
20:58They took a meandering kind of route
21:01as if they didn't know where they were
21:03and didn't know where they were going to go.
21:06One of the most interesting aspects of that
21:09was that Goodman appeared
21:12to be holding something
21:13in the waistband of his jeans or trousers.
21:16I strongly suspect
21:17he was holding a gun
21:19in the waistband of his trousers.
21:21We started to get the CCTV strategy together
21:24along with the witness trawl
21:26along with forensics
21:27along with the suspect.
21:29And before you know it
21:30it's amazing
21:31these things come together.
21:32You know, it's almost like
21:34I don't know, baking a cake.
21:36You know, the ingredients by themselves
21:37don't mean anything
21:38but when you start bringing them together
21:39before you know it
21:41the story starts to emerge.
21:45Heskey is from quite a well-known family
21:48and the Heskey family
21:50were associated to Eugene Irons
21:53previously before he died.
21:55So there's a connection.
21:56When we established that
21:57he was with Goodman on the CCTV
22:00officers went to arrest him
22:02it was a pretty straightforward arrest.
22:04It came in
22:06he was interviewed
22:07there was very little evidence.
22:10That left
22:11James Goodman.
22:14For several hours
22:15the police couldn't find him
22:17until they got a tip
22:18as to where they might locate him.
22:20But they faced a problem
22:22they faced a dilemma
22:23really.
22:25He was armed
22:26known to be dangerous
22:29and there was a very real risk
22:32that if the detectives went in
22:36and grabbed him
22:38from this
22:40house
22:41on a council estate
22:43that Goodman would turn violent
22:45and turn the gun
22:48on the police.
23:02As the day went on
23:03and it was a very long day
23:05remembering we'd started
23:06at four in the morning
23:07in the afternoon
23:09late afternoon
23:09we identified
23:11an address
23:11where we believed
23:12James Goodman
23:13was.
23:15We decided
23:16we had to try
23:16and arrest him
23:17we believed he'd killed someone
23:19he had access to a firearm
23:21the risk was of him
23:22potentially shooting officers
23:23shooting members of the public
23:24maybe even injuring himself
23:26and if we were going to arrest him
23:28it had to be done
23:29with a ballistic approach
23:31so he could maintain
23:33any forensic evidence
23:34and in the end
23:36after speaking to him
23:37through hostage negotiators
23:39he did give himself up
23:40and he came out.
23:42And then when he arrived
23:43at the police station
23:44he was given his rights
23:46and he asked for a solicitor
23:48to attend
23:48and I was tasked
23:50with planning the interviews
23:52which was quite difficult
23:54because
23:56we had very little
23:57to go on
23:58but
23:59the way I planned
24:00the interview
24:00was to ask
24:01a lot of details
24:02about background
24:04questions about
24:05whether he'd actually
24:06been to the club
24:07on the night
24:07and then
24:09we'd break
24:11and I'd
24:11go back to
24:12the briefing room
24:14and I'd find out
24:15what else
24:17we've
24:18established
24:19from our inquiries
24:21because other officers
24:21were out making inquiries.
24:23We were really keen
24:25as an interview strategy
24:26to make sure
24:28we offered them
24:29the opportunity
24:29to tell their story
24:30as opposed to us
24:32start telling them
24:33what evidence we had.
24:35Shane Heskey spoke
24:36and he gave us
24:37some detail
24:38Goodman didn't
24:39he wasn't forthcoming.
24:43It's a really
24:44difficult decision
24:45for the police
24:45at this point
24:46isn't it?
24:47Time's running out
24:48the clock's ticking
24:50you've only got
24:50a certain amount
24:51of time
24:53before you have
24:54to release
24:55or charge.
24:56Yes
24:56absolutely
24:57and the problem
24:58is at this point
24:59is that
25:00they didn't know
25:01whether it was retribution
25:02they didn't really
25:03know what they
25:04were dealing with
25:05and it's
25:07always really vital
25:09when you're looking
25:09at motive
25:10to be able
25:11to suggest
25:12what a connection
25:13between people are.
25:15In Leicester
25:16at the time
25:16the charging authority
25:18came from me
25:20leading the investigation
25:21so we made
25:22the decision
25:23and it was
25:24the very end
25:25of his 92 hours
25:26in custody
25:26we made the decision
25:27to charge
25:28Goodman
25:29with the murder.
25:31It was a difficult decision
25:32the evidence
25:33was very
25:34very limited
25:34I was actually
25:35concerned
25:36that there would be
25:38the potential
25:39for him
25:39to be harmed
25:40on the outside
25:40Goodman was going
25:41to be killed
25:42because
25:44Jason Hill
25:44had a network
25:47and he was charged
25:48and went before
25:48court the next day
25:50he'd never had
25:51the chance
25:52to basically
25:52get rid of all
25:54the items
25:54that had been involved
25:55to lay down
25:56his defence
25:57with his friends
25:57etc
25:58and so putting him
25:59straight in prison
26:00have been isolated
26:04In the midst
26:05of all of this
26:07Carlton Mills
26:08has turned up
26:09Yes
26:10so Carlton Mills
26:12is taken to hospital
26:13and the bullet
26:15that has killed
26:16Jason Hill
26:17they actually managed
26:18to retrieve
26:18the cartridge
26:19from Carlton Mills
26:22his stomach
26:23Retrieving the bullet
26:24is a big thing
26:26isn't it?
26:26It's a massive
26:27massive piece
26:29evidence
26:29that you really
26:31you really want
26:32to try and secure
26:32in cases like this
26:34particularly
26:35because you're
26:36then going to know
26:37the type of gun
26:38that the bullet
26:39has come from
26:40and obviously
26:41bullets when they
26:43are leaving guns
26:44leave unique
26:44striations
26:46in the casing
26:49So the forensic
26:50investigation of firearms
26:52in this country
26:53is far more developed
26:54than I think
26:54people understand
26:56we have a very
26:57developed database
26:59if a weapon
27:00is used in a
27:01particular case
27:02and then goes dark
27:04and then emerges
27:06in another case
27:07we can establish
27:08that the same weapon
27:09has been used
27:10by the features
27:12that it left
27:13on not only
27:14the cartridge cases
27:15that might have been
27:16recovered from
27:17the first scene
27:18or the bullets
27:19that have been
27:19recovered from
27:20the victim
27:21so there is a
27:22very sophisticated
27:23network of
27:24intelligence around
27:25firearms in this
27:27country
27:28the clothing that
27:29Goodman was wearing
27:31when we recovered him
27:32on Christmas day
27:34was sent off
27:34a ballistic
27:35examination
27:36a few days
27:37it came back
27:38it's covered
27:39in ballistic
27:39discharge
27:40so that was great
27:43the difficulty was
27:44the clothing
27:45that he was wearing
27:46when he was recovered
27:47that was covered
27:48in the discharge
27:48wasn't the clothing
27:49he was wearing
27:50on CCTV
27:52completely different
27:52clothing
27:54so then we did
27:55some work
27:55where we looked
27:56at the ballistic
27:57discharge
27:58from his clothing
28:00against the
28:02firearm
28:02or the bullet
28:03that had killed
28:04Jason Hill
28:04and they were different
28:07so on the one hand
28:08we had this
28:09lovely bit of news
28:10about ballistic
28:10discharge
28:11but it was
28:11utterly irrelevant
28:13to the murder
28:14of Jason Hill
28:15and to this day
28:16we still don't know
28:17what that discharge
28:18is all about
28:19I mean that's a big
28:20hole in the case
28:21isn't it
28:21it's a big hole
28:23in the case
28:23it also shows you
28:25the level of access
28:27that Goodman had
28:28to firearms
28:29so if it's not
28:29that gun
28:30what gun have you
28:32been firing with?
28:36So we had
28:37the four or five days
28:38of tremendously
28:39hard work
28:40for the team
28:42and we traced
28:45numerous people
28:46who'd been in
28:46the nightclub
28:47and a lot of these
28:48people wouldn't
28:49engage with us
28:50they wouldn't
28:50speak to us
28:51either because
28:52they were fearful
28:53they hadn't seen
28:54anything
28:54or they just
28:55didn't want to
28:56engage with the
28:56police
28:57but some people
28:58did
28:59I had one
29:00particular job
29:02it was to speak
29:02to a barmaid
29:03and she told us
29:05that a particular
29:05guy
29:06she only knew
29:06his first name
29:07she said he was
29:08from Birmingham
29:08he'd been working
29:09at the nightclub
29:12and he had been
29:15with Jason Hill
29:17when he was shot
29:17so my next task
29:21was to go
29:21and see him
29:22revisit him
29:23and persuade him
29:25to tell the truth
29:27after quite a long
29:28time with him
29:30he decided to tell us
29:31the truth
29:34he knew that Shane
29:35Heskey was right
29:36behind them
29:37he could hear him
29:38still giving Jason
29:39Hill abuse
29:39he's right behind
29:41the pair of them
29:42and he
29:46heard a click
29:48it's in a millisecond
29:50he's turned round
29:52to one side
29:54to see
29:54what that was
29:56and as that happened
29:58the gun went
29:59went off
30:00so the gun was fired
30:02he only half turned around
30:05he didn't fully turn around
30:07to look at Shane Heskey
30:09and he didn't see
30:11James Goodman
30:12so he was convinced
30:15that Shane Heskey
30:15had shot Jason Hill
30:17but he obviously
30:18realised he hadn't seen him
30:19with a gun in his hand
30:20that made a huge difference
30:23to the whole investigation
30:24because Shane Heskey
30:26was suddenly implicated
30:29and was arrested again
30:30and interviewed at length
30:34he came in again
30:35this time with a different solicitor
30:37bear in mind
30:38first time round
30:39he'd spoken to us
30:40this time he went
30:40no comment
30:42and I've always thought
30:43about Shane Heskey
30:44it was a difficult position
30:45for him
30:46because
30:46on the one hand
30:47he could have explained
30:48and he could have been
30:49what they call
30:50assisting offender
30:51a completely different offence
30:53but he didn't
30:54and he pushed himself
30:56I'm not telling you
30:57what went on
30:57I'm not going to give
30:58an explanation
30:58I'm not going to give
31:00any kind of testimony
31:01so the decision then
31:02was to charge him
31:03and he was charged
31:04as a principal
31:05with the murder
31:05so then we had Goodman
31:07and Heskey
31:07both charged
31:11One of the classic
31:14difficulties
31:14in murders
31:15is if
31:16there is no connection
31:18between
31:19killer and victim
31:21how does that play out
31:23in Jason Hill's case?
31:26you've got to look
31:27for your motive
31:28what is the motive
31:28of someone taking
31:29a gun onto a packed
31:31dance floor
31:32and shooting someone
31:34with hundreds of
31:35witnesses around
31:36police started to look
31:38at the associates
31:40and locations
31:41of Goodman and Heskey
31:43to see if they had
31:44connection
31:45were they part of
31:46Jason Hill's gang
31:47and they'd fallen out
31:48or had firearms gone
31:50between them
31:51had drugs been dealt
31:51between them
31:52and they couldn't find
31:53anything
31:53which means really
31:55that you're essentially
31:56lacking a motive
31:57other than
31:57someone's gone a bit
31:59crazy with a gun
32:00on the dance floor
32:00which doesn't seem
32:01that logical
32:02until eventually
32:03they find
32:05a obituary
32:07that is written
32:09for Eugene Hines
32:10lo and behold
32:12we go into the
32:12obituary column
32:13at Leicester Mercury
32:14and from when
32:15Eugene Hines died
32:17and there's all the
32:18people giving
32:19you know
32:20the obituaries
32:22about him
32:22and there's one
32:25from James Goodman
32:27who was a child
32:28and it was a glowing
32:30one
32:32virtually a loved one
32:33from James Goodman
32:36and obviously
32:37we could trace back
32:37and find out
32:38when it was put on
32:39by who it was put on
32:40but that was again
32:41crucial
32:42because suddenly
32:43there's the motivation
32:45the minute the police
32:46see that
32:48the connection
32:48is then made
32:49of thinking
32:50right this is a
32:51this is a revenge
32:52killing
32:52for the kenning
32:53of Eugene Hines
32:57a lot of the evidence
32:58was gathered
32:59during this particular
33:00investigation
33:01was gathered
33:01after Goodman
33:02was charged
33:03because he was
33:04clearly trying
33:05to dispose of the gun
33:06and he was speaking
33:07to his friends
33:08and relatives
33:09about getting
33:10disposing of the gun
33:12well known
33:13as a matter of
33:14public knowledge
33:14in prison
33:15all the calls
33:16are recorded
33:16so when you make
33:17the calls
33:18as a serving prisoner
33:19the prison service
33:20record the call
33:21and so we
33:23had the authority
33:23to be able
33:24to listen
33:24to Goodman's phone calls
33:26and in that time
33:29early on
33:29he obviously
33:31was panicking
33:31because he was
33:32on the phone
33:33and he was asking
33:34people to destroy
33:35things
33:36which became part
33:37of the trial
33:37later on
33:38and in our view
33:39that was him
33:40asking people
33:41to get rid of the gun
33:42the gun that he'd
33:43used to kill Jason
33:58James Goodman
34:00James Goodman
34:00in jail
34:01made a succession
34:03of phone calls
34:04to his associates
34:06in the criminal networks
34:07on the outside
34:08and was recorded
34:10asking them
34:12to destroy
34:13the evidence
34:15of his crimes
34:17that was the crucial
34:19factor
34:20that the police
34:21had
34:21their big card
34:22when the case
34:23came to trial
34:25but even then
34:27at trial
34:30Goodman and Heskey
34:32almost
34:34got away
34:35with murder
34:37they came
34:37very close
34:38to getting away
34:40with it
34:43James Goodman
34:44pleaded not guilty
34:45and it's a classic
34:46because this happens
34:47on a lot of occasions
34:49they get advised
34:50to look a certain way
34:52when they go
34:53to the court
34:54and
34:54he was a very
34:56young looking guy
34:57he almost looked
34:59like he was
34:59a school boy
35:01and
35:02he turned up
35:03at court
35:04wearing a blazer
35:05looking really smart
35:08and
35:08from a jury perspective
35:10they were looked at him
35:11and probably
35:12couldn't possibly believe
35:14that he was capable
35:15of murdering somebody
35:18comes to trial
35:20two defendants
35:21big risk at this point
35:23for the prosecution
35:23isn't there
35:24yes
35:25big risk
35:26what happened
35:27in this particular case
35:29is
35:30is a cutthroat
35:32defence
35:33took place
35:34so Heskey
35:35essentially
35:36turned on Goodman
35:38to say
35:39wasn't me
35:40all over to him
35:41he just handed me
35:42handed me the gun
35:43it was him
35:43he was the shooter
35:45handed me the gun
35:45on the dance floor
35:46I didn't know
35:47I just thought
35:47it was going to threaten him
35:48and what's he want in return
35:50and he wants a plea
35:51in return
35:51oh
35:52a lesser charge
35:53yes
35:53which is
35:55exactly the same thing
35:56that we saw in 1995
35:57with the driver
35:58of the vehicle
35:59for Eugene Hines
36:00so that same scenario
36:02has played out again
36:04the cutthroat defence
36:05is put forward
36:08so we got the call
36:09from the QC
36:11who was leading
36:11the prosecution
36:12and ordinarily
36:13it's
36:14at that stage
36:15it's generally
36:16the barrister
36:17and the CPS
36:18who will make the decision
36:20but they wouldn't
36:21so they said
36:22to me
36:22and the assistant chief constable
36:24Heskey
36:25had offered to plea
36:27he's offering a plea
36:28of assisting offender
36:29which means
36:30we would have got
36:31a conviction
36:32albeit not for the murder
36:34because it wasn't
36:35the strongest case
36:36but he would have got
36:36conviction
36:38and then he would
36:39give evidence
36:39against Goodman
36:41so on the face of it
36:42that sounded great
36:44but then if you think
36:45it through
36:46when he gives evidence
36:47against Goodman
36:49Goodman's defence
36:50would be very simple
36:51no he did it
36:52he is the one
36:53in the club
36:53with the gun
36:54he is the one
36:55in the club
36:55carrying it
36:57and
36:58it was high risk
37:00in my opinion
37:00and also
37:01for the prosecution
37:03to use Heskey
37:04as a witness of truth
37:05is a bit far fetched
37:07at this stage
37:08of the case
37:09so
37:10I'm sitting with
37:11the assistant chief constable
37:12and I said
37:12what should we do
37:13he says
37:13well it's your decision Mick
37:14so okay
37:15and
37:16I actually heard them
37:17there's a bell
37:18in the crown court
37:19and they're calling back in
37:20so the CPS
37:21and the barrister
37:22are saying
37:22come on
37:22what do you want to do
37:23so I made the decision
37:25I said no
37:25go with it
37:26we'll carry on
37:26don't take the plea
37:33the police don't accept it
37:34they don't
37:35no
37:35it's really worth saying
37:36that Goodman
37:37chose to take the stand
37:39on this case
37:40and he came across
37:41so poorly
37:42to the jury
37:45ultimately
37:46ultimately he gave evidence
37:48in the witness box
37:49which
37:50he has advised
37:51to do that
37:52and he decided
37:53it was a way forward
37:54but he had a very distinct
37:57patois
37:58type
37:59accent
38:00which I think
38:01straight away
38:01I imagine
38:02would have surprised
38:03the jury
38:04they were expecting
38:06him to sound different
38:07he certainly
38:08to the jury
38:09I think
38:10appeared a liar
38:11the more he went on
38:12the more he was convicting himself
38:14the language he used
38:16on the telephones from prison
38:18about cutting things up
38:20he clearly wanted the gun
38:21to be cut up
38:23but he was saying
38:24in court
38:24oh no no
38:25it was about cutting a safe up
38:29he said
38:30it was for
38:33a safe
38:34that he needed
38:34to cut up
38:35from a robbery
38:38so
38:39I distinctly remember
38:40the judge asking him
38:42which robbery
38:43was the safe from
38:44and he
38:46actually said
38:47in the witness box
38:48no comment
38:49to the judge
38:50which I think
38:51didn't help his case
38:53very much
38:53and the judge
38:55certainly wasn't
38:55very happy with him
38:56and pointed out
38:57that you
38:59you cannot
38:59say no comment
39:01questions asked
39:01while you're in the witness box
39:04he didn't do himself
39:05any favours
39:06but on the other hand
39:07if he hadn't given testimony
39:08I think it would have been
39:09just as bad
39:10so he was in
39:10between a rock and a hard place
39:12and the long and the short was
39:14the case concluded
39:16it was
39:16it was a strong case
39:19built on evidence
39:20but no forensics
39:21no CCTV
39:22that showed it happening
39:24very few witnesses
39:25but it was still a strong case
39:26and I think the jury
39:28were out for about three hours
39:30the gallery was full of
39:31relatives of both men
39:34and when the jury
39:36pronounced guilty
39:37for both of them
39:39there was actually
39:40quite a lot of
39:41screaming and crying
39:42in the gallery
39:43it was quite tense
39:45the judge obviously
39:46threatened to
39:47clear the court
39:48at one stage
39:49as this went on
39:51for a few moments
39:52it was a very dramatic moment
39:57the end of the day
39:58I think they got
39:5918 and 19 years
40:02and that was based
40:03partly on their ages
40:04I think had
40:05had that murder
40:07been committed now
40:08with different
40:08sentencing guidelines
40:09it would have been
40:09a lot longer
40:12Shane Heskey
40:13if he'd have
40:14when he was arrested
40:16told the truth
40:17and said that
40:18James Goodman
40:19had committed the murder
40:20he would have got
40:21a dramatically
40:22less sentence
40:24Shane Heskey
40:25was convicted
40:26by the jury
40:26he was found guilty
40:27as a principle
40:28of the murder
40:29but we've never suggested
40:31that Shane Heskey
40:32pulled the trigger
40:32the trigger was pulled
40:34by James Goodman
40:35but they were acting
40:35they were acting jointly
40:37it was a joint enterprise
40:39and why Heskey
40:41would specifically
40:42want Jason Hill
40:43killed
40:44is less relevant
40:45I think the fact is
40:47it was Goodman
40:47that was the motivated one
40:48and it was Heskey
40:50who was with Goodman
40:51on that night
40:53I don't think
40:54either of them
40:54had any remorse
40:55about the killing
40:56I think both of them
40:58knew what
41:00what happened
41:01I think both of them
41:02were involved
41:03in what happened
41:04I think genuinely
41:05Heskey
41:06was assisting
41:07the offender
41:08Goodman
41:10I think
41:10he clearly
41:11walked away
41:12from the nightclub
41:13with him
41:14I think they wanted
41:15to murder Jason Hill
41:16Goodman carried out
41:18the murder
41:18and Heskey
41:19assisted him
41:20and I don't think
41:21they've ever shown
41:22any remorse
41:22as far as I'm aware
41:25so often the murder
41:27of somebody
41:27who's been seen
41:28to be caught up
41:29in the kind of
41:30criminal fraternity
41:31or a criminal gang
41:32is often seen
41:34maybe by the public
41:35as less important
41:36than maybe
41:38a murder
41:39of a young female
41:40by a stranger
41:42in the street
41:43even though
41:44those two crimes
41:45are exactly the same
41:46and there is obviously
41:47a victim
41:48and justice
41:49needs to be served
41:50in these situations
41:51but I think
41:52we often see
41:53those people
41:53who choose
41:55to engage
41:55in those criminal
41:56activities
41:57as sort of
41:58part players
41:59in their own
41:59downfall
42:00maybe
42:01and perhaps
42:02we see
42:02that that
42:02is something
42:03that is almost
42:04their destiny
42:05they chose
42:06to get involved
42:06in those crimes
42:08and you know
42:09there's this kind
42:09of an eye
42:10for an eye
42:11type of killing
42:12it's just something
42:13that goes
42:14with the territory
42:19To what extent
42:20did Goodman
42:22and Heskey
42:22think
42:23they could
42:24get away
42:24with the perfect
42:25murder
42:26I questioned
42:27how much thought
42:28they put into that
42:29I think
42:30they saw
42:30their opportunity
42:31they most certainly
42:33had the motive
42:34to kill
42:35Jason Hill
42:37it's a very
42:39high risk
42:39strategy
42:40they had access
42:41so they had
42:41opportunity
42:42they had motive
42:43they had access
42:44to a firearm
42:46whether they
42:47thought they were
42:48going to get away
42:49with the perfect
42:49murder
42:50is questionable
42:51whether their
42:53heart was ruling
42:54their head
42:55at that point
42:55but to take a firearm
42:57into an environment
42:59where there are
43:00so many people
43:01and then shoot it
43:02and murder somebody
43:03on the dance floor
43:05my only guess
43:06is they did think
43:07that in the ensuing
43:08panic
43:08that they would be
43:09able to get away
43:10unseen
43:15he didn't
43:16carry out
43:17the perfect
43:17murder
43:18in fact
43:18far from it
43:19but I think
43:20at that point
43:21he probably
43:22wasn't thinking
43:22that rationally
43:24but he probably
43:25thought
43:26I can get away
43:26with this
43:29he was in a
43:30situation
43:31where
43:32he would have
43:33thought
43:33he committed
43:33a perfect
43:34murder
43:35and the evidence
43:36was really
43:37really thin
43:37we literally
43:38had intelligence
43:39and we had
43:42CCTV footage
43:43of him walking
43:44away from the scene
43:45and me questioning
43:46him about
43:47did he have a gun
43:48down the waistband
43:48of his trousers
43:49and him choosing
43:50to say
43:52no comment
43:53but had he
43:54given an explanation
43:56and said it might
43:57have been his mobile
43:58phone
43:58or had answered
44:00questions
44:00saying
44:01he was at the nightclub
44:02and he walked away
44:02with his friend
44:04after the shooting
44:05had happened
44:06because he was scared
44:07etc
44:08and he was worried
44:09about what was
44:09going to happen
44:11he probably
44:12wouldn't have been
44:13charged
44:13and he probably
44:14would have disposed
44:15of the gun
44:15and we would have
44:16had absolutely
44:17no evidence
44:20he could so easily
44:21have not been
44:23charged
44:24and we probably
44:25would never
44:25have proved
44:26this murder
44:27and he would
44:28never have
44:29appeared
44:29before a court
44:34the reality
44:35is
44:36investigators
44:37have got
44:37so much
44:38opportunity
44:40to look
44:42at the history
44:42of the victim
44:43to look
44:44at the location
44:45to look
44:45at the potential
44:46offenders
44:47that
44:49if people
44:50do manage
44:50to escape
44:51justice
44:52it's not
44:53because
44:54they've carried
44:54out the perfect
44:55murder
44:56it's simply
44:57the evidence
44:57hasn't been
44:58able to be
44:58put together
45:03without question
45:05one person
45:07did get away
45:08with a perfect
45:09murder
45:10at least
45:10for a while
45:11yes
45:12and that was
45:13most certainly
45:14Jason Hill
45:14what does it
45:16tell us
45:16about what
45:17makes the
45:18difference
45:19between
45:19a perfect
45:20murder
45:21and an
45:22almost perfect
45:23one
45:23arrogance
45:24and overconfidence
45:25plays in
45:27to
45:27the actions
45:28that someone
45:29takes
45:29after they
45:30commit a
45:30murder
45:31you can't
45:32control
45:33even if you
45:34try really hard
45:35as was the
45:36case with
45:36Eugene
45:36Times
45:37you can't
45:37control
45:38who sees
45:38what
45:39you can't
45:40control that
45:40part of it
45:41and are they
45:42brave enough
45:43to go to the
45:43police and say
45:44I've seen
45:45something awful
45:46but the
45:47minute that your
45:49arrogance and
45:50your confidence
45:51take over
45:52and you brag
45:53about the fact
45:55that you have
45:55got away with
45:56murder
45:57you're setting
45:58yourself up for
45:59a fall
45:59and if there is
46:00one thing
46:01that people
46:02in gangland
46:03groups have
46:04is they've
46:05got very long
46:05memories
46:08it cost the
46:09force of
46:09fortune
46:10because obviously
46:11there were six or
46:12seven bank holidays
46:12in that time
46:14but on the other
46:14hand
46:16you can't put a
46:17cost around the
46:18investigation of
46:19someone's death
46:21and we did what
46:22we had to do
46:23we had to do
46:53you
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