00:07Stefan Grobe
00:08Hallo und willkommen to the program, I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:10My guest today is the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Foreign Trade of North Macedonia,
00:15Timcho Musunski, who is in Brussels for an informal meeting with his EU counterparts
00:20to discuss the bloc's relations with the Western Balkans.
00:23Thank you for coming on the show, Minister.
00:25Thank you so much for the invitation and for helping us raise awareness of why the Western
00:30Balkans is important to not only the European Union, but to the citizens of the European Union.
00:34My pleasure.
00:36Now, North Macedonia changed its name to unlock EU accession talks, yet membership still feels distant.
00:46Do many citizens now feel the EU broke its promises?
00:49So, what is a very stark reminder is that our country received candidate status together
00:55with Croatia in 2005.
00:57It has been over 21 years since that moment.
01:01We received the first recommendation for opening accession negotiations in 2009, yet still we
01:07haven't opened accession negotiations.
01:09Now, throughout all of these struggles, throughout the very difficult decisions that have been
01:17made within our country, what one can first conclude is that, and many here would be very
01:24surprised, is that there is still a huge support for the EU path in our country.
01:29Over 70% of our citizens support EU membership and support the EU accession process, with the
01:36caveat being that many of these citizens who are pro-EU, both in values and faith and so
01:44forth, don't believe that the door will actually open.
01:47And this is where we need, together with the member states, together with the European Union,
01:52to prove that this is not the fact.
01:54There have been countless constitutional changes, mostly related to identity issues, and still
02:00we haven't had the right to open accession negotiations.
02:03You still believe that the whole enlargement process is merit-based or purely political?
02:09So, first of all, one of the things that we have to agree on is that Europe cannot afford
02:15strategic ambiguity in the Western Balkans anymore.
02:19Until very recently, I think it was perceived that the process of European enlargement was
02:26a process where the ball was only in the court of the candidate countries.
02:31But this is not, you know, it's not a solo match.
02:33It's a process that requires fairness, it requires predictability, but it also requires political
02:39courage coming from both sides.
02:41Because it is not just about connectivity, it is not just about trade and economy.
02:45But what we have now realized is that enlargement towards the Western Balkans is also an issue
02:51of strategic imperative.
02:53Do you believe that there are some EU countries, existing members, who simply do not want the
02:59Western Balkans in the EU, no matter what the reform process is achieving?
03:05This is a very difficult question to answer.
03:08I think strategically, there is a very broad consensus among EU member states that enlargement
03:14towards the Western Balkans has to happen.
03:17There are countries that are principled supporters, that practice what they preach.
03:21And there are only those, there are some countries who only say the right things but don't follow
03:26up enough.
03:28And this is where we need maybe a stronger consensus.
03:31But what I can say is that on our part, we will do our side of the obligation.
03:36And that is delivering on reforms.
03:38We are one of the three countries together with Montenegro and Albania that are delivering
03:42on the reform agenda, which is very concrete and solid proof that internally we are moving
03:47forward when it comes to EU related reforms.
03:50And we are also a country that is 100% aligned with the European Union's common foreign and
03:55security policy, the CFSP.
03:57And even going beyond that, we have security and defense partnership with the European Union.
04:01Now, how damaging is the ongoing dispute with Bulgaria over language and history to your
04:08country's accession bid?
04:10Is it the main roadblock on the path to the EU?
04:15Sadly, yes.
04:16And at the loss of both our country, but the loss of Bulgaria, the loss of the whole region.
04:23What I think that Bulgaria must do is that it must recognize the strategic moment while
04:29it still exists.
04:30And I think and I hope that Bulgaria will recognize the possibilities that exist, that it will open
04:38dialogue with us.
04:39Is there a red line for Macedonia, a moment when you say no more delays, no more concessions?
04:45First of all, like I said, we will continue to do everything that is necessary on our European
04:50path to be the best candidate possible.
04:53But on the other hand, we are not prepared to negotiate on issues that are related to our national
05:00identity, our national history and our language.
05:05Sadly, the narrative that has been created and pushed forward from Sofia, these are debates
05:10for historians.
05:11These are debates for academics.
05:13Let them discuss and let them speak on the basis of objective facts.
05:18The role of politicians and leaders should be to be forward-looking.
05:21To be speaking about issues that unite us.
05:24So if you're asking us, do we have red lines?
05:27Of course we do.
05:28Because we do not believe that this is a narrative and a debate that should be ongoing in 21st century
05:33Europe.
05:34If EU accession keeps stalling, do you fear that North Macedonia would drift towards the
05:42orbit of countries like Russia, China, Turkey?
05:46What is a fact is that hybrid threats thrive where frustration grows and where trust arose.
05:55This is a fact.
05:57What is also a fact is that there is a severe amount of malign influence in our entire region
06:03coming not just from Russia, but also from China as well.
06:07This is a reality that we all have to face and we all have to live with.
06:11But what I can tell you is that we are a country that is westward-looking.
06:15We are a country that is proud to be a member of NATO, whose troops contribute in NATO missions
06:21from the Baltics to the Balkans.
06:23We are a country that prides itself in being pro-European.
06:28Not just in rhetoric, but in the values that we implement within our society.
06:33So while the threat does exist, what I can tell you is that as a country we have proven
06:38not only to say that we are resilient, but to be resilient in practice.
06:43Imagine a country that for over 20 years has been forced to do many things for the promise
06:50of a European future.
06:52From constitutional changes several times to even the change of the name, as you said,
06:57and has not received delivery from European institutions, but has still remained extremely pro-European.
07:05On NATO, North Macedonia has been a member since 2020.
07:10Now, has the membership delivered the security and political benefits people expected?
07:20So, NATO is without a doubt the strongest collective security community that civilization has known
07:28and will probably know.
07:29And in that sense, what it has provided for our country is much-needed stability in a region
07:36that is extremely volatile.
07:38And we are now, in the past several years, a security provider from the region.
07:43And you see that through our presence in the EU-led Althea mission in Bosnia-Herzegovina,
07:47our role in the KFOR mission in Kosovo.
07:50And in that sense, we are also a very committed ally.
07:55We are a country that is moving in its defense expenditures.
07:59If you ask me the fundamental question of, is NATO membership positive for the future of
08:06the country, for creating a good investment climate, but also a clearer strategic outlook,
08:11without a doubt my answer will be.
08:12How do you see the current discussion about the future of NATO with America threatening
08:16to withdraw, etc., etc.?
08:18What does that inspire in you?
08:20My view is that, thanks to President Trump, Secretary Rubio, and the entire foreign policy
08:25apparatus of the United States, NATO is stronger than it has ever been.
08:29This is undeniable coming out of last year's summit in The Hague.
08:33We now have, in about a month or so, another summit in Ankara, where we are due to take stock
08:38of what we've achieved in the last year.
08:41But through U.S. leadership, NATO received a wake-up call.
08:44We have all committed to 5% by 2035, which is a very ambitious agenda, but also a very
08:52necessary agenda, considering not only the threat that we have from the Russian aggression
08:56against Ukraine, which is still ongoing, but threats in the Indo-Pacific, threats in the
09:01Middle East.
09:02So, in that sense, if you ask me, NATO is stronger than it's ever been.
09:07There will be disagreements between member states, as there have been in the past.
09:12But if you look at the fundaments, following the Hague summit, through U.S. leadership,
09:18we are at a point where the alliance is stronger than it's ever been.
09:22North Macedonia has recently signed a trade agreement with the United States that eliminates
09:27all customs duties on U.S. industrial and agricultural products.
09:33How is that playing out for the Macedonian, North Macedonian economy?
09:37So, the United States is an important trading partner with, of course, the European Union
09:43and its member states being our key trading partner.
09:46We aim to stimulate good economic and trade relationships with the United States because
09:52the United States is one of our strategic partners.
09:55We believe that the joint statement, which will soon lead to a trade agreement, is beneficial
10:02for both sides.
10:04We have seen movement in the trade portfolio between the two countries in a positive momentum.
10:10Your close ties to the United States, could those be a bridge between Brussels and Washington?
10:18And do you envision that role in the future?
10:22So, we are a government that aims to do all that it can to move forward its nation in the
10:30interests of its citizens.
10:32And that is why I like to point out in many of my interviews that our foreign policy is
10:37built on three key fundamental pillars.
10:39And that is our path towards EU membership and our alignment with the CFSP, our strategic
10:46partnership with the United States, and being a responsible ally in NATO.
10:51And it is not always easy to manage these three key constants in a world which, as we agreed
10:58previously, is very volatile.
11:00But if necessary, we are always prepared to help move forward any process in relation to when
11:11it is connected to any key relationship that we have, whether it is with the European Union,
11:17its member states, and our key strategic ally in Washington.
11:21We are a small country, although what we have come to understand is that in this world we are
11:29also a country that carries properly its own weight, no matter how small sometimes that
11:34weight may seem, whether it is from a military or economic perspective.
11:38And sometimes small nations can provide necessary impetus when necessary in various different
11:45constellations.
11:46All right.
11:47Wonderful conclusion.
11:48Kimcho Mutsunsky, the Foreign Minister of North Macedonia.
11:51Thank you so much for your time.
11:53Thank you so much for the privilege of this interview.
11:59Thank you so much for mirrors.
12:00Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
Kommentare