00:00With Maytal Legum. She is head of ETF solutions at Tucrium and former director of exchange traded products at the
00:07New York Stock Exchange where she oversaw the ETP listing platform.
00:10So a lot to get to here with Maytal. Thanks for joining us here today.
00:13Absolutely. I'm first time here. So thank you for having me.
00:16Great to see you. And I want to start with this idea that you really help issuers launch, manage and
00:22grow their ETFs.
00:23So you kind of see them from their inception. You kind of help them figure out their concept and get
00:27things going for them.
00:29What we're seeing right now is that active ETF counts exceed passive ETFs for the first time ever.
00:35Talk about that turning point and what that says about where we are in the ETF industry.
00:40Sure. So, you know, it's no secret that there has been a boom in flows and in the number of
00:45funds coming to mark in the last couple of years.
00:47Right. I think over 2000 ETFs are non-traditional. Right.
00:52So, you know, Eric was talking about flows and how there's a lot of flows in those traditional passive ETFs.
00:57But there is a huge tail of opportunity. Right. In the what we call non-traditional space. Right.
01:04So issuers now see an opportunity. And we'll talk about that. You know, why retail also is helping that. Right.
01:11I am an investment manager and I don't necessarily have a huge army of wholesalers, but I have a great
01:18idea.
01:19I have a great strategy. Right. So it's an opportunity for those boutique RIAs, crypto native firms, hedge funds just
01:26to kind of dip their toes.
01:28And they have a great strategy, but they don't know how to list an ETF, how to trade an ETF,
01:33how to manage an ETF.
01:35And that's why there's so much demand kind of on my side, what we call the white label firms, because
01:40we can help you take this great idea and package it into an ETF.
01:45And now you use our economies of scale, our expertise and everything that we already have set up, especially for
01:53two cream, kind of given the history of, you know, the commodity in the future space.
01:57Right. So we're seeing a lot of issuers or asset managers who are playing in the nontraditional space. There's so
02:04much opportunity there.
02:05I mean, you saw that 85 percent are active, but, you know, active means a lot of different things and
02:12fewer.
02:13You know, is it really that exciting to list the plain vanilla index fund? Probably not so much.
02:18But, you know, with the rise of the retail investors, you know, we've seen a lot of opportunity there.
02:23And so are you the one fielding the incoming calls, getting pitched these new ETF ideas?
02:29Yeah. So, you know, we got a lot of outreach. Some things, you know, maybe shouldn't be an ETF.
02:34I mean, I know I'm not in the business of saying that, but like we not everything should be packaged
02:39as an ETF, but we do field a lot of those calls.
02:42Well, let me ask you this for anybody sitting out there who's like, I have a good idea for an
02:45ETF.
02:46What are you looking for? What would be a deal breaker? What do you instantly throw out?
02:50How much of a platform do you need or like assets lined up ahead of time?
02:54How important is the idea as if you're talking to somebody out there who's considering this?
02:58Yeah. I mean, listen, you have to have something that you're solving for.
03:03And also, hopefully, a way in which you know how to talk about it and sell it and pitch it
03:09right.
03:09You know, investors are way more comfortable with complex strategies ever than they.
03:14You know, we used to say if you can't if it's too complex, no one is going to buy it.
03:17We've obviously seen that's not really true, but there you know, it's a fine line.
03:22But are you solving a problem? Is there a demand? And do you have a target audience?
03:28No, I think that's a really interesting point about complexity. And I want to pick up on it.
03:33Why do you think it is that complexity is winning out over simplicity?
03:37I mean, I don't know if it's winning out in terms of assets. I think it's people are seeing an
03:41opportunity.
03:42Right. So the large established managers, you know, they're going to gobble up all those assets in the plain vanilla.
03:49But there is so much opportunity in that in that tale. Right.
03:52And it's it seems to me like retail investors especially and people are more comfortable in those in the ETF
03:59wrapper.
04:00Right. The ETF wrapper has become something that people are really comfortable with.
04:03So now they're even comfortable with things that are three years ago we would never even imagine could fit in
04:07an ETF.
04:09Yeah. I mean, I can take a stab at that, too, Scarlett. The buffers to me are very complex.
04:14But the outcome cures anxiety. Some of these ETFs are like pharmaceuticals, in my opinion.
04:21They're actually solving psychological issues for boomers. They're curing anxiety. Right.
04:27And for young people, they're giving you an adrenaline rush with the triple leverage than crypto. Right.
04:31So is that what you're looking for? Like, does this thing do something psychologically to the end client?
04:37Because I agree the ETF is now so trusted that they will not even open it that much.
04:43They'll be like, OK, I like the outcome. I don't need to know exactly how it works.
04:46I mean, I agree with that to an extent. I mean, I think it could be twofold. Right.
04:50You could either solve this anxiety issue, which I like how you put that.
04:53But also maybe you're just having, you know, adding building blocks to your portfolio, which historically, you know, used to
05:00go to an advisor to that.
05:01But now we've seen Gen Z's and millennial. I think I saw a stat that said like eight million people
05:06are going to be buying their first ETF in 2026.
05:09I don't you know, don't quote me on that, but something like that.
05:11And now there is an opportunity for maybe a more traditional ETF as well, if you have the right brand
05:18and you kind of hit the right stride.
05:20So we've seen I was shocked, right, in terms of like some of the thematics that are in vogue now,
05:25which if you would have asked me two years ago, I'd say like, why would you list a thematic ETF?
05:29But yes, and they are doing really well.
05:32So, Maytel, I got to ask you a question.
05:35Our Katie Greifeld noticed that there's a lot of folks who were at the New York Stock Exchange or other
05:40traditional exchanges, Sebo, Nasdaq, for instance, have left and gone deeper into the ETF industry.
05:45You were at the NYSE for 14 years.
05:47Is there kind of a brain drain going on?
05:50No, I think the ETF industry has grown so rapidly and there are so many opportunities and there's so many
05:56people looking for talent.
05:57So when you sit at the NYSE, you really get to speak to everyone and you see so many things.
06:05I mean, like in many different variations and you see, you know, the whole ecosystem.
06:12And I think people see that as something that is really beneficial that maybe they can bring to their firm.
06:17So, you know, I think the exchanges over the last 10 years have had, you know, tremendous success.
06:23They worked really hard to, you know, on the cryptocurrency and the generic listing standards, both, you know, 6C11 and
06:30the ones from the fall for the cryptos.
06:33But, you know, things are starting to move.
06:35And I think it's become a little bit easier to list an ETF from an exchange perspective.
06:40But I think it's just people are looking for talent and that's a really easy way to find it.
06:45And I think it's just people are looking for talent.
Comments