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Secrets Of A Murder Detective - Season 2 - Episode 10: Two Lives, One Knife
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00:03I'm Steve Keogh, a former Scotland Yard murder detective inspector.
00:08I'm going to take you deep inside murder investigations,
00:13opening my contacts book for the first time
00:16to reveal the secrets of what it really takes to be a murder detective
00:21on the front line, exposing how we solve the most heinous of crimes.
00:31Welcome to Secrets of a Murder Detective.
00:43The murder of Sana Ali in May 2007 was one of Manchester's most challenging cases.
00:49I'm going to be meeting the senior investigating officer on the case
00:52to reveal what really happened, the pressures, the setbacks,
00:56and the methods in the investigation that brought the killer to justice.
01:04My name's Jane Antrobus.
01:06In May 2007, I was a senior investigating officer on the murder of Sana Ali.
01:20Hi, Jane. Lovely to meet you.
01:22And you, Steve. And you.
01:25OK, so a call comes in to GMP, and as a result of that, you respond.
01:31What was that initial information you got about what had happened?
01:35Well, it was a Friday afternoon.
01:37It was the 11th of May 2007,
01:41and the call came in as a 999 call saying,
01:46my sister is in the bedroom, and I think she's committed suicide.
01:52She's killed herself.
01:53Right, OK. So, suicide generally wouldn't be something that you would respond to?
02:00So there must have been something more than that.
02:02What was the circumstance around it that raised it to come to a murder investigation?
02:06It was initially treated as a suicide, and then later on that evening,
02:10there was a forensic post-mortem.
02:12I think she had 43 stab wounds and lacerations on her body.
02:18The pathologist drew some conclusions that some injuries looked like
02:24they could be defence wounds,
02:26and that some were deliberately staged wounds
02:31to make it look like Sana had done these injuries to herself
02:36in a self-harming and in an intent to commit suicide.
02:42So was that scene maintained?
02:44So whilst the post-mortem was happening, that house was locked down?
02:49It was, yes.
02:49Right, OK. That's important, isn't it?
02:51Yes.
02:52So, otherwise, if you don't do that, family come back in,
02:55start moving things around... Yes.
02:56..and you essentially lose your crime scene, don't you?
02:58Correct.
02:58..and evidence that maybe they can be contaminated.
03:07When Sana Ali was found in the house,
03:10she was found in the bedroom.
03:11That doesn't mean that the bedroom is the only crime scene.
03:15The whole house would be examined,
03:17and the curtilage of the house.
03:19So if there's any vehicles on the drive,
03:21the back garden, the front garden, the bins,
03:24any CCTV that might link anybody to that scene,
03:28that would all form part of the crime scene.
03:31So, despite the fact that someone's just been found in one room,
03:34in a house like this,
03:37the whole house would become that crime scene.
03:43What were your initial thoughts and your priorities at that time?
03:46Right, well, this happened on a Friday, tea time,
03:49and I only came into the investigation the following Monday morning.
03:54Right.
03:54Because it was the on-cover SIO
03:56who was dealing with it over the weekend.
03:59So there were quite a lot of things happened over the weekend.
04:02And that's quite normal, isn't it?
04:04Yes.
04:04So, dotted around the country, in every single police force,
04:06there's going to be on-call murder teams
04:09with an on-call SIO or a number of SIOs.
04:13But when you come in, then it's over to you, Jane.
04:16You then take control.
04:18Yes, that's correct.
04:19I got a full briefing from the SIO from over the weekend.
04:24The victim, Sana Ali, was found in her marital bedroom
04:29at the family home.
04:31And within the house itself,
04:35when the police got there,
04:37it was believed to be a totally secure house,
04:41apart from the front door,
04:43where the husband of the victim's two sisters
04:46had come in responding to phone calls.
04:49We can't get hold of Sana.
04:51Can you go and see why she's not answering the landline
04:54or a mobile phone?
04:56So they went in and they found her upstairs,
05:00in the bedroom, lying face down in a pool of blood,
05:05and there was a kitchen knife at the side of her.
05:09So they've essentially got a locked house,
05:11a victim inside, and it appeared to be suicide.
05:16When a theory or a hypothesis is that a victim has committed suicide,
05:22it's really important that the CSIs attending the scene
05:26and the crime scene manager keeps an open mind
05:28and actually looks at the scene impartially.
05:32So it's almost like you don't want to have a preconceived idea
05:34about, oh, they've committed suicide.
05:36You have to look at the scene with an open mind.
05:44The victim was a 17-year-old married female called Sana Ali,
05:52who lived at that house together with her husband,
05:56his brother and his parents.
05:59Because she was quite a quiet person,
06:04but she had been at college
06:05and she had had a lot of friends who knew her
06:12as to just be a lovely, lovely, kind girl.
06:17She was totally family-orientated.
06:28So at the postpartum, the pathology is going to have a couple of priorities.
06:32One of them is going to be, the main one really,
06:34is a cause of death.
06:36But they'd also look at the circumstances around it.
06:38Are there any injuries on the body that can indicate
06:40what may have gone on at the point of death?
06:42And one of those really important ones
06:44is going to be defensive injuries.
06:46At least three of those injuries were stab injuries,
06:51deep incisions, and one of them, a critical one,
06:55was to the chest.
06:57And then there was certainly another one or two
07:00to the lower abdomen.
07:03It wasn't apparent at the time,
07:06but later in the investigation it became very clear
07:09that the offender had lifted the victim's top
07:14and done those stab wounds to the lower abdomen,
07:17which is like a deliberate act
07:20because there was no cut in the garment.
07:24You're painting a picture there
07:25that for me is really quite unusual
07:26because if you put yourself in a position
07:29of someone that's attacking someone,
07:31why would you lift some garments to stab someone first
07:35because the knife's going to go through the garments?
07:37Psychologically there's something in that, isn't there?
07:38Yes, and it was the fact that Sarno was 11 weeks pregnant
07:45the offender had made a deliberate act
07:48of stabbing her to kill the baby as well.
07:52Wow.
07:54A fascinating aspect of it for me
07:56is the fact that it was directed at her abdomen
07:59and she was pregnant.
07:59We see in domestic abuse cases
08:02that abuse will escalate or begin in pregnancy.
08:09And there was some interesting research that looked at
08:12if the violence was directed at the abdomen,
08:17that it was jealousy about the baby.
08:23Most murders, there's a link between a killer and a suspect.
08:27And to identify the suspect,
08:29what you need to do is build up that really good picture
08:30of the victim's life to see if there's anyone in it
08:33or anything in it that could give an indication
08:35as to why they were murdered.
08:37Sarno was a recently married 17-year-old.
08:43She was part of an arranged marriage
08:46and Sayir was actually her cousin.
08:48And that marriage had been arranged for a long time.
08:51She was very into him,
08:54but he was less interested in her
08:58in that sort of romantic way, let's put it.
09:02Murder investigators have various tools and methods
09:05they use to solve a crime.
09:06And one of those, a really important one, is a timeline.
09:09What was that showing you?
09:11It was actually showing that her husband, Sayir Ali,
09:15had gone off to Friday prayers in the afternoon,
09:20leaving Sarno effectively locked in the house.
09:25His younger brother, a teenage boy called Hassan,
09:29had gone off shopping in Bury with his friends.
09:33So we're looking at who last saw her.
09:37And the person who last saw her was her husband
09:40on the surface of it.
09:42So he's technically alibied out.
09:44And the teenage brother, his teenage brother,
09:48is on CCTV shopping at various outlets in Bury Town Centre.
09:54So, although they were interviewed the day after on the Saturday,
09:59they were interviewed to try and build a picture up
10:03of the victim and the circumstances of that Friday afternoon.
10:09So they weren't interviewed as suspects at that point.
10:13So you're saying they're alibied out.
10:15But just imagine if this was the scenario,
10:19that when the husband left, Sarno was already dead.
10:22So no matter what he was doing afterwards,
10:24he could have been here, there and everywhere
10:26in front of a thousand people.
10:27But the moment he locked that door behind him,
10:30she could already have been dead.
10:32Correct.
10:33She could have already have been dead.
10:35And also as well, when you're talking to me,
10:38there's a few red flags that are going off.
10:41So first off, they're in a relationship
10:43that he's not completely happy with.
10:46In the UK, and I'm sure this is the same across the world,
10:50if a female is a victim of a murder,
10:53there's a 50% chance it's going to be
10:54at the hands of a partner or ex-partner.
10:57So these little sparks are going off in my brain here,
11:01thinking, well, we should really be looking at him now
11:04as a potential suspect for her murder.
11:06That is what happened, and on the Sunday,
11:08he was arrested and interviewed as a suspect.
11:14Investigators know of the impact murders have on their loved ones.
11:19And for them to then make a decision
11:22to arrest someone close to the victim
11:25isn't a decision that would be taken lightly.
11:27So in this case, when Sana's husband was arrested,
11:33a huge amount of thought would have gone into that
11:36to make sure it was the right thing to do.
11:54When Sana's husband was arrested for her murder,
11:59undoubtedly that fact would have got out into the wider community.
12:03And what you often see in these situations
12:06is people have an attitude of, well,
12:08there's no smoke without fire.
12:10And for those that find themselves in this position,
12:14and those doubts and those suspicions
12:16will carry on until the real killer is caught.
12:25Sometimes when you're interviewing someone
12:27you get a feel for are they telling you the truth or not,
12:31because what someone's saying
12:32and what they actually mean can be completely different things.
12:35But what was the feeling from you and your colleagues
12:38around Sayir and his brother?
12:41We were building up a picture
12:42that everything wasn't exactly as he was telling us
12:46and that it was hiding something.
12:48And that became quite apparent on the Monday
12:51when I took over the investigation.
12:57Sayir was a successful businessman in his own right in the UK.
13:02And he had many, many friends around the Bury and Manchester areas.
13:08A very popular young man with a good personality,
13:13very outgoing character.
13:15But with all the information that's coming to light on the surface of it,
13:20it's not totally a happy marriage.
13:23Sana herself had told some of her friends
13:26who had said she wasn't happy with him.
13:29He stayed out late.
13:32He came in at four o'clock in the morning
13:35and then he'd be on his phone texting someone.
13:38So Sana didn't believe that he was completely faithful to her.
13:44And she'd told some of her friends that.
13:51As a senior investigator,
13:52one of your important lines of inquiry
13:54are going to be appeals to the public.
13:56And for that, you will complete a strategy around your media.
14:01Tell me about that.
14:03What happened around your media appeals to the public?
14:06Well, over the weekend when it became apparent
14:08that it wasn't a suicide
14:10and that we were looking for anyone to help with inquiries
14:13to piece together the last hours of Sana.
14:17A press appeal did go out.
14:19We got a message into the incident room
14:22from a girl, a 22-year-old girl from Birmingham,
14:28a dental student who was Harmahinda Singara.
14:33And she rang at the incident room and said,
14:35I'm a friend of Sayir Ali.
14:38I believe you've got him in custody
14:39and you've took his mobile phone.
14:42So I think you'll be wanting to speak to me.
14:44So now she's almost inserted herself into your inquiry.
14:48You need to understand who she is.
14:51What were you learning about her?
14:52Well, we knew that she was called Harmahinda Singara, known as Mindy.
14:59That she was 22 years of age
15:02and we quickly found out that she lived with her parents
15:05in Birmingham, in Solihull, in a nice house.
15:09And that she was a few weeks out of passing
15:14her final dentistry exams as a Class A student at Birmingham University.
15:20When you spoke to Mindy, what did she say?
15:22What information did she give you?
15:24Basically, she told us that she was a friend of Sayir,
15:29that she'd been in a romantic liaison with him for almost two years.
15:33Well, so what you're basically telling me now is
15:36here is somebody with a love interest with Sayir.
15:42Things are starting to change quite drastically now, aren't they?
15:45They were changing minute by minute,
15:47but as soon as we got all that information,
15:50we looked upon Mindy in a totally different light.
16:03Sayir's phone revealed crucial information
16:06in so much as there are a lot, a lot of calls,
16:11hundreds and hundreds of calls and texts to the same number.
16:15And the texts were obviously from someone
16:20he was in a close, personal, sexual relationship with.
16:25And this person turned out to be Armahinda Singara.
16:30Sayir's reaction to the messages found was that, yes,
16:34he had been in a relationship with this girl, Mindy,
16:37and he tried to call it off.
16:41In fact, he had called it off with her.
16:43As soon as he found out that his wife was expecting a baby,
16:47Mindy wasn't having any of it
16:49and wouldn't leave him alone.
16:53Mindy seems like she was head over heels in love.
16:56Sayir kept her completely secret from his family.
16:59It was almost like he was leading two lives.
17:02He had this long-term girlfriend.
17:04They went out together.
17:06At one point, they were planning on going away,
17:10so it appears that that was a function of their relationship,
17:13that they would spend time away together.
17:15And yet he would return home.
17:17He was living with his family.
17:19And they had absolutely no knowledge that Mindy existed.
17:24So it was a completely double life.
17:32An affair.
17:34In a marriage that isn't particularly happy,
17:37or certainly on his side.
17:39Baby comes along.
17:41She then decides that she's going to turn up at the house
17:44and try and spoil that.
17:47Sana and the baby are killed.
17:48It kind of starts to fall into place, doesn't it?
17:51It does, and there's a lot of other stuff in the background
17:54that we uncovered as well.
17:56Because of the fact that she was of Sikh faith,
18:01Sayir had already said,
18:03me and you cannot be together.
18:06But the thing about it,
18:09he never told her he had married Sana.
18:12He didn't tell her.
18:13He told her he was going to Pakistan on a pilgrimage,
18:17and it only came out later that he'd married her.
18:21So you can imagine that she is feeling Mindy is the woman scorned.
18:28This is a case where because Mindy can't have her relationship
18:34and this woman comes into his life
18:36and marries him and then gets pregnant,
18:39she didn't know that he was engaged
18:41and she didn't know that he got married.
18:44And when she found that out,
18:46that would have been a huge shock.
18:48She must have been absolutely devastated.
18:51This was a great lead that opened up the investigation
18:54away from Sayir and Hassan
18:58and gave us that light at the end of the tunnel
19:02that we were looking for, some new lead,
19:06and it certainly was a great one.
19:08And we followed it with gusto.
19:13So talk me through the kind of work
19:16that was going on inside the house.
19:18As I was walking around the house,
19:22the crime scene and talking to forensic officers,
19:27it became increasingly unusual
19:31that there was no blood outside the actual bedroom.
19:36That the killer had been within that bedroom
19:40where there was a lot of blood,
19:42yet there was no blood outside the bedroom,
19:46down the stairs or in the other rooms
19:49or even on the doors or anything like that.
19:53So it did appear that whoever had committed this crime
19:57was very forensically aware.
20:03The offender here tried to clear up the scene
20:06and hide evidence,
20:07but actually you'll never destroy all the forensic evidence.
20:12When the crime scene investigators examined the house,
20:16they ascertained that there was an insecure window in the kitchen.
20:21The CSIs actually found a bare footprint on that surface
20:26close to the window,
20:28the inference being that that footprint
20:30may well be linked to someone trying to climb out of the window.
20:34Footprints are unique to an individual,
20:36and in this case,
20:38they were able to develop a really good footprint
20:39on the worktop on the inside of the window
20:42and they were able to recover some rich detail from that footprint.
20:48Sair and Hassan's alibis were thoroughly substantiated
20:53and checked out,
20:54and then they became de-arrested as suspects.
20:57The main areas of interest are obviously what's gone on in that bedroom,
21:02the sequence of events prior to Sairna being murdered,
21:09who she's met at the door,
21:11and a key part of finding out that
21:14was not only the forensics to see what we could prove,
21:19but Mindy's account of what she actually did
21:23that Friday afternoon in that address.
21:29So you sent your officers down to Solihull to speak to Mindy.
21:34What information did they relay back to you?
21:36They told me that she had said she's a good friend of Sair Ali
21:41and that she, in fact, had told them
21:44that she'd been up to Sair's house in Bury,
21:49where he lived with his wife,
21:50on that Friday afternoon when he had been out at Friday prayers.
21:56She'd been up to speak to Sairna,
21:58and that immediately raised her to a different level.
22:03So what she's essentially doing is inserting herself
22:07into your timeline at a really critical period.
22:11Yes, she's potentially the last person or one of people to see Sairna alive.
22:17And what she's got to tell us about the conversations in the house,
22:21what happened in the house, is absolutely critical now to our investigation.
22:27But you've got a decision to make here as the SIO.
22:30One is you could treat her as a potential witness.
22:33Others, that you could treat her as a potential suspect.
22:36If you treat her as a suspect, it opens up all kinds of options for you
22:41in terms of you can search a house.
22:42You can take her phone from her and search that.
22:45You can look for her clothing.
22:46It gives you the chance to potentially get evidence that you might not get,
22:51or it would certainly be harder to get if she's a witness.
22:54That was exactly my thinking because I needed to do all those things
22:59to get, as they would say, my ducks in a row, my evidence all together
23:06and to get a full picture of what went on on that Friday afternoon.
23:12So she was raised to suspect level.
23:16A policy decision was made and she was arrested.
23:20When crime scene investigators are at the scene of a murder,
23:24it's important that they carry out an extensive look for fingerprints,
23:29DNA, et cetera.
23:31And that was highlighted in this case here.
23:33There was a footmark found on the kitchen worktop,
23:37which on its own may not have been strong evidence,
23:40but it was found in a position that was hard to explain away.
23:56Over the last 10 years, 92% of people convicted of homicide,
24:02meaning murder or manslaughter, were men.
24:06And in that same period, only 2% of murders involved a female victim with a female killer.
24:15Females killing females is rare.
24:18In fact, murder is a crime that's predominantly committed by men.
24:26During my 30-year career, I had a variety of roles.
24:30I worked my way up and I was the first ever female detective chief superintendent
24:36in the history of Greater Manchester Police.
24:39It's about developing laterally and learning a variety of skills.
24:45When you're supervising a team and you're directing a team,
24:49you've got to take that team on the journey with you and you've got to earn respect.
24:55Throughout my career, I must have been involved in well over 100 murder investigations
25:00and suspicious death investigations.
25:04Each case is very different, but it does affect you when you find out that personal story
25:11and especially when it's young people that have lost their lives unnecessarily.
25:22In any murder investigation, you're looking for a motive.
25:27And now, because of what Mindy has actually said
25:31and the circumstances that she's in a relationship with Sana's husband,
25:38Ana's found out recently that he's expecting a child
25:41and that their relationship has took a dramatic turn
25:46and that he's stopping that relationship
25:48because he wants to build a future with his wife and child,
25:52that gives Mindy the perfect motive.
25:57When you arrest someone for a serious crime like murder,
26:00it opens up some police powers.
26:03One of those is to search the premises in which they're arrested.
26:07I'm assuming that is what happened next.
26:09The family home was searched predominantly her bedroom.
26:15A number of items of clothing and footwear were seized
26:19together with her mobile phone
26:21and there were items in the wardrobe of her home.
26:26There was the Koran because it was understood
26:30that she was intending to change to the Islamic faith
26:35so that she could be together properly with Sayya.
26:39There was a box of candles which had been burnt down
26:44and those became relevant when we watched a Bollywood film
26:48that was also discovered in the wardrobe
26:51which was all about this person with unrequited love
26:55and if you leave a candle burning in the window of your house
26:59for X amount of days your love will come back to you.
27:02And there was also a book which was very interesting called
27:07Everything You Want to Know About DNA.
27:11Wow, because earlier on you were telling me that
27:13whoever committed this murder seemed to be forensically aware.
27:17Now, you also said that she was a dental student.
27:22Would a dental student need a book about DNA?
27:27Potentially a dental student wouldn't need a book on DNA
27:30and it was another red flag for us.
27:33Being arrested for a murder and which means she will need to be interviewed
27:37again under caution by some of your officers.
27:39What happened in that interview? Did she actually speak to you?
27:43Yes, she did speak.
27:44It was not one of those no-comment interviews.
27:48She gave a full and frank account of her movements on that Friday afternoon
27:54and the reason that she'd been up to Throstle Grove.
27:58She was devastated when she found out that Sarna was pregnant
28:01just as she was devastated when she found out that Saia was actually married
28:07and in the interim she had wanted to keep her relationship going with him
28:13and he had said, no, that couldn't happen
28:15and that the two of them had been to a religious leader
28:18and that they'd put something in place called a mutter
28:22which is something under his faith
28:26which means he can take a second wife for a temporary period.
28:31What did Mindy say about that Friday afternoon?
28:34She told the tale of going up there.
28:38She spoke to a friend on the way
28:40who confirmed that she had spoke to Mindy
28:44and Mindy had told her she was going to confront Sarna
28:47and then she parked a car not outside the house
28:52which she parked it on the other side of the main road
28:56about 300 yards away
28:58and when confronted about why she'd done that
29:00she said, oh, well, that's where I used to park
29:03all the times that me and Saia were seeing each other.
29:08Mindy's version of events is that she went to the front door
29:12to confront Sarna
29:15and that she was instructed to go around to the back door
29:19where Sarna admitted her to the house
29:21because she only had a back door key.
29:23When Mindy said, I'm a friend of Saia's
29:27Sarna allegedly said to her, oh, you must be Miriam.
29:31Well, Miriam was a former girlfriend of Saia's.
29:34So she then didn't confront, you know, Sarna apparently,
29:41but she went along with the fact that she was Miriam,
29:45which makes no sense whatsoever of her visit
29:48to Throstle Grove that Friday afternoon.
29:52They were having a conversation, her and Sarna,
29:55and then Sarna told her that she was pregnant,
30:00a couple of months pregnant
30:01and that she wanted to close the window
30:04and she couldn't reach it.
30:06So Mindy said, oh, I'll close it for you
30:09and she couldn't reach it.
30:11So she had to take her shoes off and go on the worktop.
30:15So that gave her a version of events.
30:19She then said they went upstairs to the main bedroom
30:22because Sarna wanted to show Mindy wedding photographs.
30:27Obviously, she thought she was Miriam at the time.
30:30And they sat on the bed looking at wedding photographs.
30:34And then she said that Sarna got a bit distressed
30:38and she decided to leave.
30:41But when she left, she was fine.
30:44Bizarre, isn't it?
30:45Mmm.
30:46I mean, it just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
30:49No. She went up to confront her,
30:50but she didn't actually confront her.
30:52No. And she's just let her into her house.
30:56Yeah.
30:56Complete stranger.
30:58Decided to show her her wedding photos.
31:02Mmm.
31:02Thinking it was an ex...
31:03I mean, this doesn't make sense.
31:05It doesn't make sense.
31:07We know that before going to Sarna's house,
31:11she bought a knife.
31:13You don't take a knife to talks.
31:17She took chocolates.
31:19That suggests that she was there to deceive her,
31:22to present her with chocolates.
31:23What we think happened is she bought those chocolates
31:26and you do get her going in a service station
31:28on the M6 on the way up,
31:30sold those chocolates.
31:32as a blagging her way into the house with a gift.
31:39Oh, I'm Miriam and I've come...
31:40I brought you these chocolates
31:42and I've heard you got married.
31:44So it all was a bizarre tale that she told.
31:49Although as bizarre as this account seems,
31:53it's actually quite a good thing for you
31:54because it's committing her to a story
31:56that's unbelievable, essentially.
31:59That knife was not from that house.
32:03It was brought into the crime scene.
32:06Yeah.
32:07And it was sold in a shop close to where Mindy lived.
32:12So she had the means in that she had access
32:14to the knife that was the murder weapon.
32:21When we look at motive,
32:23there's a really strong motive when we look at her.
32:26She was in a relationship with Sair.
32:28That was, in her eyes, going wrong.
32:31And then we look at opportunity.
32:33She was at the house in that period
32:36between when Sair left
32:38and when Sana's body was found.
32:41She had access to Sana.
32:43She was there in her bedroom with her.
32:46She had the opportunity to commit the murder.
32:48So everything coming together,
32:50this is building a really strong case against her, isn't it?
32:55Yeah, it really is.
32:56And especially about the knife, yeah.
33:00The knife wasn't stopped at a great many shots of outlets in the UK,
33:05but certainly was at one in Solihull where we had a going into that high street
33:11a couple of days before the murder.
33:14When you took this footprint from Mindy and compared it to the footmark
33:18that was on the side in the kitchen, were they a match?
33:21It wasn't a full footprint that was on the work surface,
33:24but the relevant parts that were there could be matched with the sample that we took from Mindy.
33:31Another element of her planning and meticulation is that when police presented her with what evidence there was,
33:42for example, the footmark on the kitchen bench, she had an answer for this.
33:47She had an answer for how she was in the bedroom.
33:50She had an answer for how she moved Sana around the house.
33:53She had planned and prepared for every point that the police could address with her.
34:01She had an answer for everything.
34:04What about her movements after the murder? Were you able to establish anything then?
34:09We could establish that she went home via the M6, but she didn't go directly home.
34:17The car went onto the CCTV cameras at the Birmingham Dental Hospital where she was studying.
34:25And as it goes out of view, round the back where the car is seen to drive and goes out
34:31of view is where the incinerators are.
34:34And within five minutes, the car comes back round and drives off and continues on the journey home.
34:41What are your feelings on what she was doing there at the hospital? What do you think?
34:45I think that she was very aware of DNA and I think that Mindy potentially goes to the toilet and
34:54puts on a forensic suit where she comes back and she does the murder.
34:58And then she removes the suit, bags it all up and leaves that bedroom in her normal clothes.
35:07And that then she goes out through that window, putting the footprint on the work surface in the kitchen.
35:15I think she then goes and disposes of those items at the incinerators at the dental hospital.
35:23Something that she's very familiar with.
35:25That makes complete sense, doesn't it?
35:27So you've got the clothing that you know she went to that house in.
35:31There is no blood? No.
35:33None of Sana's DNA on it? No.
35:36There's no blood distribution outside of the house.
35:39The obvious thing, if she's a student at a hospital, is that she would have access to paper suits, the
35:46forensic offices as well.
35:48Yeah, and the gloves and the gloves and everything.
35:50And everything.
35:51The fact that she behaves in this way with no criminal experience, this isn't something she's done before on practice.
35:59This is somebody who's never committed any crime. Nothing.
36:05No petty crime. Nothing.
36:08It's unbelievable that she was able to behave in the way she did without that criminal experience.
36:15We never see this.
36:20One of the things that troubles me the most about Sana's murder is the overkill.
36:26Why commit such a vicious attack? An attack not only on Sana herself, but also their unborn baby.
36:35The fact that Sana Ali was pregnant at the time of the attack is kind of quite an emotive thought.
36:42The fact that whoever's killed Sana Ali has also killed an unborn baby.
36:48And the fact that Sana Ali had been stabbed in the stomach also tends to suggest that this is a
36:54targeted attack because she was pregnant.
36:58When Jane was building this case, she didn't have that smoking gun.
37:04She had the footmark on the kitchen side.
37:07On its own, it probably doesn't mean a lot.
37:10The chocolates taken by a person who's going to tell someone of their husband's infidelity.
37:18The parking of the car some distance away from the house, something that Sangira tried to explain away.
37:24The buying of a knife on its own, not illegal and not an indication of guilt.
37:31The book on DNA.
37:33She was a student, so potentially, again, could have explained that away.
37:39Each of these pieces of evidence on their own would never have proven a case of murder.
37:44But when they were brought together, I think they painted a compelling picture of Sangira's guilt in Sana's murder.
38:05The case against Harminda Sangira was built on circumstantial evidence.
38:10Meaning there was no direct evidence linking her to Sana's murder.
38:16So when the trial started, the investigators couldn't have been sure of the outcome.
38:21An added element to this was that Sangira herself would present as a hard-working student from a good background.
38:30No criminal history.
38:33The type of persona that could potentially gain sympathy from the jury.
38:43No one had a bad word to say about her. She was a vibrant personality.
38:48She was a popular girl with lots of friends and a very active social life.
38:54Mindy gave out the image of a completely functioning, valuable member of society.
39:00She historically was a straight-A student. She came from a good family, a good loving family.
39:08She was studying to be a dentist. You know, this is a girl that had the world in front of
39:15her.
39:15She was, she had everything. She was an attractive woman, a clever woman, and for all intents and purposes, looked
39:24like a happy functioning member of society.
39:27Before you can formally charge anyone with murder, the evidence has to go before the crime prosecution service,
39:33who have to make a decision of whether there's enough to charge that person.
39:37In this case, we had evidence of witness testimony. We had forensic evidence of the footprint, the chocolates.
39:45We had her own admission that she'd been in the house, and the timings of everything, which were down to
39:52the phone messages, the phone calls,
39:55and the cell site analysis, and the AMPR movements of her car from Birmingham to Burry, which showed that she'd
40:03been up there that afternoon,
40:05and she'd left a short time before Sarna's mutilated body was found in that bedroom.
40:12You've persuaded the CPS that Mindy has committed this murder, but ultimately you need to go to court and persuade
40:19a jury,
40:20and that's a very high bar for them to be sure that she did carry out that crime.
40:25Exactly. It's all about case-building now and building the file of evidence and getting everything together,
40:32ready for that trial at Crown Court, because you've got the 12 good men and women of the jury
40:37who have to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that that person, Mindy, killed Sarna Ali in her own home.
40:49The trial started at Manchester Crown Court in November 2007,
40:55and families were present from both Sarna's family and Mindy's family.
41:03Within the courtroom itself, I was present, trying to keep a back seat, really, just watching proceedings,
41:11and we have the family liaison officer looking after the victim's family.
41:18How were you feeling on that first day of the trial, having done all that hard work,
41:21and this is really the point where you were all aiming towards?
41:25Obviously feeling nervous, apprehensive, and wanting to get a result for Sarna's family.
41:33When it's put in front of a jury, you can never be 100% confident of what the outcome's going
41:38to be, can you?
41:38You can't be 100% confident, and Mindy actually took the stand and gave evidence.
41:46The fact that she had an answer for everything,
41:49and the fact that her story remained consistent throughout questioning,
41:54that's how good her planning was, and that's how consistent her account was,
42:00which is actually very unusual.
42:03Often that's what trips people up. Their account is not consistent.
42:07Hers was absolutely consistent in detail.
42:12This was rehearsed and rehearsed again and again.
42:17So how did the trial go?
42:19She was trying to detract everything from her
42:22and push it all over to Sayir,
42:26and we need to be looking at him rather than blaming her for what supposedly happened.
42:32Yes, she did go to the house and she admitted that,
42:37but she certainly did not murder Sarna.
42:40You're trying to prove a case against Mindy,
42:42but her defence is it wasn't me, it was him.
42:45So essentially you also have to try and prove his innocence, don't you?
42:48Yeah, we had to alibi him totally out of it,
42:51but she's still detracting from herself at trial.
42:55There was no great emotional outburst in the witness box,
42:59just as there hadn't been in all her interviews.
43:02She maintained a very calm persona and there's no doubt whatsoever
43:08that the jury looked at this slim, attractive young lady
43:14who was there accused of this murder
43:18and they must have thought she couldn't be capable of it.
43:22When a trial is conducted in front of a jury,
43:25that jury is 12 members of the public
43:29who potentially have no understanding of forensic evidence
43:33and no knowledge of DNA evidence.
43:35So it's really important to make it clear and concise
43:39and appropriate for the jury to be able to understand.
43:42So you're sat there in court and you reach that point
43:44where eventually there is a verdict
43:48and you'll come back into court, you'll be there with Sala's family,
43:52you'll be there with members of your team
43:54and the jury walked back in and then asked their verdict.
43:59What did they come back with?
44:01Guilty.
44:02On the 29th of November 2007, Mindy was found guilty of murder
44:09and was sentenced to life with a minimum tariff of 14 years.
44:17How did you feel at that point?
44:19We felt very pleased that the guilty verdict had been recorded
44:25and we felt slightly aggrieved that the sentence was so light.
44:32I think Saya was very horrified and disappointed
44:36that Mindy could actually commit such an offence like that
44:42and I'm sure that in his heart of hearts he did feel some guilt
44:48due to infidelity carrying on an affair with her for so long.
44:53When Sana was murdered, her unborn child died.
44:57But the law in this country means that you cannot commit murder
45:01against an unborn child.
45:04For murder to be an offence,
45:07the victim has to have been born and taken a breath.
45:10Morally and ethically, it's two lives.
45:15In the eyes of the law, it's one life
45:17and it's all very, very sad and a very tragic case.
45:22How old was Mindy at the time when she was sentenced?
45:2523.
45:27So all being well for her,
45:28she'd be out and about to have her life at 37,
45:31young enough to marry, start a family and have her own baby.
45:36Yeah.
45:36That doesn't feel like justice for me.
45:39No, it doesn't to me
45:40because she's taken a life, effectively two lives,
45:45and, you know, Sana's mother and family
45:52have had her robbed from them, taken cruelly away.
45:58So, although it was a guilty verdict,
46:02it doesn't feel like true justice.
46:08When speaking to Jane, what came across was her clear frustration
46:12at the sentence in this case.
46:1414 years for a premeditated murder of a 17-year-old child
46:20and her unborn baby didn't feel like justice,
46:25so I completely and utterly share her frustrations.
46:3125, person
46:3225, person
46:323, 2, 0
46:32Who is dead her invincible?
46:3335, person
46:5835, person
46:58a man
46:58Diaoncé
46:58Piano
46:5835, person
46:5835, person
46:5835, person
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