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Bob Dylan Leader Of The Free World
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00:00If you talk to famous people, and I guess I'm one of them because I have a certain degree of
00:04notoriety and fame,
00:08nobody really seems to think it's what they went after.
00:11A lot of people go after fame and money.
00:18But they're really after money. They don't really want the fame, you know.
00:22Say you're passing a little pub or a little inn, and you look through the window and you see all
00:25the people eating and talking and carrying on.
00:30You can watch outside the window, and you can see them all be very real with each other, as real
00:37as they're going to be.
00:37Because when you walk into the room, it's over. You won't see them being real anymore.
00:49It's not that he's ahead of the game so much, it's that he continually reminds his audience, whether they grasp
00:56it or not, of what was good about America in the first place.
01:04We are living in a time when it's all about technology and math and AI, and scary to think that
01:12like AI, how can AI create art or human empathy or emotions the same way that a song can?
01:18It just, it can't.
01:19I'm a perfectionist, maybe, in other areas.
01:23Bob Dylan would be most well known for being a mercurical, impossible to pin down, wonderful songwriter who encapsulated 20th
01:33century United States sensibilities.
01:35You know, America has a tradition of standing up for yourself and free speech and protest, but he kind of
01:42took it to another level.
01:43He took it to a popular culture level, but it became a lifestyle and a lens to look at what
01:49was happening around you at that time in a way that I don't think many other artists have been able
01:54to do successfully.
01:56Justice cannot be rendered by an unfaneled and uncontrolled tribunal.
02:01Then the people of this country will have lost confidence.
02:05And when the people of this country lose confidence in their government, no one can say what the result may
02:12be.
02:12There are certain rules and regulations to it.
02:14I mean, you just don't sit down and write a song, you know, I mean, there's a certain amount of
02:18learning you have to go through to get to that point.
02:21I hope people will learn hope, that don't give up, to keep on stumbling, to keep on bumbling, no matter
02:26what the circumstances.
02:28Of course I'm a fan of Bob Dylan.
02:30It's not possible to be my age to not be a fan of Bob Dylan.
02:32The great producer Bob Johnson said, Bob Johnson said before his death a few years ago, he says,
02:39Hell, the leader of the free world ain't the president of the United States.
02:43The leader of the free world is Bob Dylan.
02:46And I couldn't agree more.
02:54Marijuana is an intoxicating, mind-muddling drug.
02:58Its use can lead to abnormal behavior.
03:00Because of widespread looting.
03:03Non-violent solution.
03:04To push a voting rights bill.
03:06That the greatness of America is the right to protest for rights.
03:11Well, evil said the stupid, you look like you could use a friend.
03:16And stupid says that's great, I ain't never had me one of them.
03:20Then stupid said the evil, how does this friendship work?
03:25At approximately 2.30 a.m. on June 17th in 1966, two men walked into the Lafayette Grill in Patterson,
03:34New Jersey and began shooting.
03:36Eyewitnesses said that they saw a car that looked like one that belonged to Reuben Hurricane Carter and his friend
03:43John Artis leaving the scene.
03:47They were tried and convicted of murder the next year, really with not any evidence except this one eyewitness saying
03:54the car looked similar to them.
03:56And Bob Dylan really found this abhorrent.
03:58And since these guys were racially profiled, decided to take up the cause for Hurricane.
04:04And that man can judge another man by the color of his skin.
04:10Yes sir, what can I do for you?
04:13Yes sir.
04:13What do you hope people will learn from your story here?
04:15I hope people will learn hope.
04:18That don't give up.
04:19To keep on stumbling.
04:20To keep on bumbling.
04:21No matter what the circumstances.
04:23No matter what the obstacles are.
04:25Because obstacles are not placed there to stop us.
04:27They simply make us stronger for the next one.
04:29I hope people can see if a person who's buried in prison for 20 years can dig himself up out
04:36of that by this very, very redeeming quality that's embedded in all of us.
04:45If a person can do it from that level of society, then anybody can do it from out here.
04:51You know what I mean?
04:53Between the races has always been bloody, but it has been one sided.
04:57Never before was there a greater need for unity.
05:00Not the texture of his hair or the color of his skin, but his eternal dignity and worth.
05:09This is the time now we should protest music and protest and art should be reflective of the frustration and
05:17the struggles and what's happening more than ever.
05:19And it's not.
05:20And you look at Bob Dylan, it's like here's someone that actually managed to galvanize an entire generation of people.
05:27And it's still someone that is looked up to for that.
05:30Because stupid followed evil and there was nowhere to escape.
05:44People drove a lot more than 100 miles to go to Bob Dylan's house.
05:49He and his wife, Sarah, came home and found people in the house.
05:54And you think, Bob, he's got these great left wing songs.
05:57He won't mind if we make a sandwich.
05:58Sarah and Bob have both said they found people in the bed.
06:05And so, of course, Dylan becomes angry and jittery.
06:08And I think you start seeing the Bob Dylan walls start to close and turn at that time.
06:13I think it was bad enough with protests.
06:15It was bad enough with rock and roll.
06:17And then when he retreats to Woodstock to kind of get his head together and figure out his next move.
06:20And you find people on your roof or on your property.
06:23It's just crazy.
06:45They have passports and they have driver's licenses and they all have Dylan as their name.
06:52You know, what can I do about that?
06:54I mean, I can't do anything about that.
06:56They changed their name on their birth certificate and all that.
07:00You know, what are you asking me about?
07:02I mean, I don't know what people think of me.
07:05I only know about what, you know, record companies say to you.
07:12You know, managers and people like that.
07:15You know, people who want you to do things.
07:16I only know, I only hear about that stuff.
07:23I know.
07:23I know, I know.
07:28I know.
07:29There wasn't any money when I made music going on when I was in there.
07:32If you could just support yourself, you were doing good.
07:35There wasn't any money.
07:37It wasn't this big, big billion dollar industry that it is today.
07:42And people do go into it just to make money.
07:46Because it's a...
07:47It's proved that you can make money in that field.
07:49But that's a sad thing, you know.
07:57I don't even have money.
07:58I mean, I started out with no money.
08:00You know, I don't want to hear about money.
08:02I had less money than anybody I know when I started out.
08:06I had no money.
08:07I mean, if you're talking about, you know, paper money
08:13and money in the bank or value, wealth, you know, possessions
08:22and all that stuff, I had nothing.
08:25I love you all.
08:27Be good.
08:51If you talk to famous people, I guess I am one of them
08:54because I have a certain degree of notoriety and fame.
08:59Everybody just kind of copes with a different way,
09:01but nobody really seems to think it's what they went after.
09:07You know?
09:11A lot of people go after her.
09:14Fame and money.
09:18But they're really after money.
09:19They don't really want the fame, you know.
09:21Because the fame is the, you know, to walk down the street
09:26or to go somewhere and have people.
09:30It's like when you look through a window.
09:32Say you're passing a little pub or a little inn
09:34and you look through the window and you see all the people eating
09:36and talking and carrying on.
09:40You can watch outside the window and they're all,
09:42you can see them all be very real with each other.
09:46As real as they're going to be.
09:47Because when you walk into the room, it's over.
09:50You won't see them being real anymore.
09:53And even if you're in the room, you'll notice that things have changed.
09:57Things have changed just because a person walks in the room
09:59who can be a focus point for everybody.
10:02You know?
10:03You know?
10:03I don't know.
10:03Maybe that's got something to do with it.
10:05I really can't say.
10:06I don't really, I don't pay any attention to it.
10:08It doesn't matter what the person's famous for.
10:10You could be famous for, you know, shooting of a president or something.
10:17You know what I mean?
10:17You're still famous.
10:18They put your picture across on all the newspapers.
10:21You're famous for something.
10:22You could be a famous fashion designer.
10:24Or a famous movie star.
10:25Or a famous Wall Street executive.
10:27But you're still, under your degree of fame, you know,
10:30you're just famous.
10:30People, people react to famous people.
10:33No.
10:34No.
11:12His family were Russian Jews, tired of the pogroms.
11:17They got out of the czar's Russia, came to the United States.
11:21There's a lot of left-wing, eastern European people in the north-central United States,
11:28in Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas.
11:31And his family was part of that.
11:34After living in Duluth for a while, they moved to Hibbing on the range, the Iron Ore Range,
11:41in north-central Minnesota, not terribly far from Canada.
11:51Bob Dylan was born in May 1941 in Duluth, Minnesota.
11:55And it's odd because there's not many people from the Duluth-Hibbing area.
11:58There's a few famous athletes from out that way that will be unknown to European audiences.
12:05But there's not a lot of famous people from that part of the world.
12:09There's a lot of noteworthy people from that part of the world.
12:11But Dylan is the one that really, by far, not just puts Hibbing on the map,
12:17but puts that part of the country on the map, that section of Minnesota on the map.
12:25There's no question that Dylan's grandparents fleeing Europe would have some great emphasis on his music
12:34and some effect on his personal life.
12:36As to how we're going to quite slice and dice that, I couldn't really say and may disagree with other
12:43Dylan pundits.
12:44But it certainly would have had an effect on him.
12:48And I think it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that it must give you a tendency to identify
12:55with the underdog
12:56and a tendency to want to defend those who are downtrodden and have been refugees or brutalized
13:04or marginalized by the society that they were born into.
13:07I don't see how he could have been anything but.
13:10You know, Hibbing wasn't a particularly poor town.
13:13It was when the Iron Range was really happening.
13:15There was a lot of money in the area.
13:16It was a very steady job for the blue-collar working-class people of the area.
13:25His high school had a brilliant auditorium and facilities, better than many of the gigs he would have done later
13:32on in life
13:33because there was a great tax base for the state school in his area.
13:37But I do think your upbringing, you know, nature versus nurture, your upbringing sticks with you.
13:44And having known how the Zimmermans suffered, both sides of his family, would have suffered back in Eastern Europe,
13:51there can't be any question that somehow or another that would have to permeate into his grown adult life.
14:01Dylan was born Zimmerman.
14:03And he's denied that Dylan comes from Dylan Thomas.
14:08But we'll never really know.
14:10There is the chance it comes from Marshall Dylan on the Gunsmoke TV show,
14:15which a guy like Bob Dylan, much less myself, we all watch this cowboy show called Gunsmoke.
14:20And Marshall Dylan was the guy, the good guy, the white hat that kept the town clean.
14:26And he'd go on killing unless he's stopped.
14:28Yeah, just like one of them hound dogs who gets a taste of blood in their mouth and just goes
14:32crazy, eh?
14:33That's just exactly what he is, Chester.
14:35Are you going to take him, Mr. Dylan?
14:37I could hold him.
14:38What are you going to do?
14:42You'll see.
14:43He was D-I-L-L-O-N, but so what?
14:46You know, Dylan could have looked at that spelling and thought, yeah, D-I-L-L-O-N.
14:49But anyway, he changed his name.
14:51He's never completely affirmed, yes, it's Dylan Thomas.
14:55He's denied it several times.
14:56And we don't really know why he picked that name.
14:59But think about it.
15:00Zimmerman isn't a name that zings off the tongue.
15:03It doesn't fit on the marquee very well.
15:05and the show business in America was riddled it was run by the wasps really and some Jewish guys
15:12in New York maybe sure of course running you know this or that but out by Minnesota you know a
15:18name
15:18like Zimmerman these things aren't going to cut it I remember somebody told me that like Tony Martin
15:24the great crooner he amongst many other crooners were Jewish but they changed their name to either
15:29something Anglo-Saxon or Italian because that was acceptable being Jewish was a little hey and I
15:34definitely remember reading in the New York Times once that until the open air of the 60s guys like
15:41Simon and Garfunkel identifying as New York Jews would have had to change their names in the open
15:4660s Simon and Garfunkel have been crazy to change their names because that's it's such a great tag
15:52Simon and Garfunkel by this time white Anglo-Saxon parts in America is more comfortable with the
15:58ideas of Jews at the country club so back in the day Bob Dylan was probably wise to change his
16:03name
16:03to the shorter catchier less ethnically identifiable Dylan I think it was probably a wise move
16:12the thing about Bob Dylan denying his name might particularly come from Dylan Thomas is twofold one
16:18Dylan likes to deny a lot of things which are in my opinion as one of his fans as one
16:22of his
16:24commentators is obvious for instance he denies much of an interest in sports yet if you read
16:29Chronicles he makes references to baseball players that he knows all about he makes reference to a
16:35basketball player named pistol Pete Maravich I know that hope this is no great scandal for the
16:41Dylan family I know that he and his brother attend Minnesota Timberwolves NBA games that's the
16:46professional basketball league so he's he's written the catfish song which is about catfish hunter a pitcher
16:53for the New York Yankees
17:00lazy stadium night
17:06catfish on the mound
17:12start to see the umpire say
17:18but I have to go back and sit down
17:23rising hundreds of feet into the air was the instrument of learning that was to banish ignorance
17:29and bring civilization
17:33a signal was given a switch was thrown the power went on
17:39Dylan like so many people in pop music was into the radio and music before rock and roll was up
17:49and really running I mean late at night due to the cold we didn't get into science class but due
17:54to cold air and late at night a broadcasting channel of 50,000 watts during the day which might on
18:00the AM frequency be banging up against other frequencies in the United States other radio stations at night that's flying
18:05through the air
18:06so Dylan could listen to the air so Dylan could listen to WLAC and Nashville Tennessee he could probably listen
18:12to a New Orleans station he could certainly hear WLS in Chicago these are great classic big powerful 50,000
18:19watt American stations which define their regions define their eras and their times because the disc jockeys on these stations
18:27were so influential on generations of American kids think several dozen John Peels
18:33and the way that John Peel's so revered here he's been dead 20 years he's still revered in the United
18:37Kingdom
18:38these guys they're not taking any prisoners
18:40so Dylan's already listening sort of Gene Autry and Tex Ritter cowboy singers
18:45he's already well aware of a Muddy Waters blues from 1951 when Muddy was just a pop star back in
18:51the day
18:52so Dylan was already aware of these musics before rock and roll even came around the block he was a
18:56Johnny Cash fan the first time around when Cash was on Sun Records and Dylan was in high school
19:02so he came in on the ground he may even come in on the basement floor much less the ground
19:06floor
19:07the whole mother blue
19:11I walk and cry while my heart beats
19:16keeps time with the drag off my shoes
19:22the sun never shines through this window of mine
19:28you know first he's in Hibbing then he's in Duluth you know University of Minnesota then he pushes a little
19:32further now boom I go to New York
19:38he did what a lot of people in America do they go to Hollywood they go to New York you
19:43sing country western you go to Nashville
19:44Dylan was ambitious it's not gonna happen for me in Hibbing it's not gonna happen for me in Duluth Chicago
19:51maybe I can do some music there sure it's got a blues scene
19:54but where do I go to really impact America New York City
19:59in the shadows of modern Manhattan surrounded by glass and steel
20:04yet only a subway stop away from the seething city
20:08with its crowds of people hectic workday schedules and the office routines
20:15lies the sleepy village called Greenwich
20:21a suburban oasis
20:23where one can gather thoughts
20:25and enjoy the wonders of nature
20:28it's so hard now to imagine what Greenwich Village in New York would have been like in the 1960s
20:33the word that really comes to mind most is it was bohemian
20:37in terms of rents were cheap
20:39it's where you went if you wanted to be different than the mainstream
20:43and I know it sounds quite cliche
20:45but you could be and do anything there
20:48always a stepper soul before their time
20:52contemporary as today
20:53you as tomorrow
20:56the cost of living was low enough that you didn't need to make loads of money
21:00so you could be an artist of any kind
21:02you could be a dominatrix
21:04you could be whatever you wanted
21:05and that was the kind of culture that Bob Dylan was both attracted to and mixing with at the same
21:11time
21:11when he arrives in New York where does he go?
21:14you know sort of Chelsea Hotel and the White Heart Saloon
21:16and all these taverns and places that are associated with the great writers
21:20and the bohemians of the day and the years previous
21:24that Dylan thought he would find his ilk
21:27Chelsea Hotel was always known as a literary hotel
21:30almost from the time it opened its doors
21:32personalities such as Mark Twain
21:34O'Henry, Dylan Thomas, Thomas Wolfe, Edgar Lee Masters, Eugene O'Neill
21:38and strange as it may seem
21:40because it's literary background
21:42one of the great music personalities started coming here
21:46that was Bob Dylan
21:47because of Dylan Thomas, Bob Dylan came here
21:50and because he lived here for a length of time
21:53got married, had a child here
21:56other musical personalities started coming here
22:00some of the biggest groups started coming here
22:02like Janis Joplin, the incredible string band
22:04the Mamas and the Papas, Leonard Cohen
22:07and so on and so on
22:10and it's not only the music group
22:12but almost every creative aspect has been used
22:14from photography to dance
22:18to, you know, almost every creative area
22:21the hotel has catered to over the years
22:24in fact, Bob Dylan did a song called the Chelsea Hotel
22:27so did Leonard Cohen and Buffy St. Marie
22:30and there were many songs written about the hotel
22:33and because of these people
22:35the other groups wanted to come here
22:37Janis Joplin, the incredible string band
22:40Jepson Airplane and the Beach Boys
22:42and on and on
22:43there were so many of the big groups
22:45stayed here at one time or another
22:47so he denies the Dylan Thomas connection
22:50yet think about it
22:51one of those guys that was on that scene
22:53just previous to Bob is Dylan Thomas
22:55he must have known
22:57when he's standing next to Liam Clancy
23:00drinking in this tavern or that
23:01in the Wall Street area, the Greenwich Village area
23:04that Dylan Thomas drank there as well
23:07he still denies that, you know, he got Dylan
23:09only because of the Dylan Thomas name
23:11but I think it certainly crossed his mind
23:32Dylan early on sang with a very nasal tone
23:36he was imitating Woody Guthrie
23:38but then in my opinion
23:39he was imitating Woody Guthrie
23:41or heavily under the influence
23:42and so was Jack Elliot
23:43so were a number of guys
23:44heavily imitating Woody Guthrie
23:46till they broke free and became their own man
23:48that's what you do in the arts
23:49no one wakes up
23:50and paints like this great individual
23:54that we've never seen before
23:55they paint like Gauguin
23:56they paint like Gainsborough
23:57they paint like Jackson Pollock
23:59they paint like Picasso in the Cubist period
24:01whatever they paint
24:02and then they become themselves
24:04Keith Richards didn't become Keith Richards
24:05he had to go through Chuck Berry
24:07and Bo Diddley imitations
24:08to get to where he is now
24:10no less so Bob Dylan
24:12and his relationship to Woody Guthrie and others
24:14but now once they're through
24:16a guy like Keith Richards
24:17Bob Dylan is an icon
24:26people now have a nickname for Dylan
24:27old weird Bob
24:28it's kind of a cruel nickname
24:30and he may be old
24:32he may be Bob
24:32but the weird part is
24:34is unlike the rest of us
24:36he pushes aside
24:39a lot of responsibilities
24:41that day to day life and society give you
24:44because he's about this art
24:46that he's leaving
24:47where someone like myself
24:49and other musicians like myself
24:52they have to weigh
24:53can I do this to a relative of my family
24:55what's in it for me personally and artistically
24:58but what's in it for me in the long term
25:00as regards to my family
25:01and my responsibilities
25:04well that accounts for why a lot of entertainers
25:06do what they do
25:07because they want the love of a
25:13another group of people
25:14you know
25:16I don't do it for love
25:19I do it because I can do it
25:21and I think I'm good at it
25:22you know
25:22that's all I do it for
25:25so guys like Dylan and Guthrie
25:26they're not
25:27we're not
25:28in their league
25:29they're just
25:30they really are artists
25:33and bohemians
25:34in every sense of the term
25:36and not every sense of the term
25:38artist or bohemian is a positive
25:41Nightfall
25:42creating a world of contradiction
25:46of paradoxes in life
25:56the tourist is lured by a sense of adventure
25:59in losing himself in a modern Casbah
26:03while the resident
26:04prefers an evening spent at a theater off Broadway
26:08where the actors and audience
26:10share their common experiences
26:12after each performance
26:13Clash isn't the right word
26:15but it was just a melting of all different kinds of people
26:17from all over the world as well
26:19it wasn't just New York
26:20and it was this one place
26:22you kind of pinpoint
26:24as a location
26:25where other people with like ideas
26:27would come together
26:39There was this weird tension between different scenes in New York in the 60s
26:43you definitely had the emerging hippie movement
26:47which had folk in there as well
26:49but then you also had the factory scene
26:51which was Andy Warhol
26:53and Nico
26:54and Gerald Malanga
26:55and that whole Velvet Underground kind of thing
26:58and that was very much a scene of amphetamines
27:00and staying up
27:01and not going to bed
27:02and making art round the clock
27:04and really kind of wanting to be seen
27:06and there was a weird tension there
27:08because I think that the factory group
27:09they respected him
27:11and they liked that he was again
27:13a counterculture kind of person like they were
27:15but I think that there were some jealousies
27:17and there were some kind of us or them
27:19because he was getting quite popular
27:20and it's hard to imagine Warhol
27:22not being the height of popular culture
27:24but a lot of people that gravitated to New York
27:26and to the factory were outcasts in every other way
27:29and Bob Dylan is kind of the outcast
27:31or kind of cast as an outcast
27:33but the outcast that's making it
27:34so there's going to be some sort of rivalry
27:36some sort of jealousy there
27:37and in fact when Andy Warhol
27:39decides to have the Andy Warhol
27:42exploding in plastic inevitable
27:43that comes directly from a Bob Dylan reference
27:46although they don't want there to be a link between those
27:49so it was like a frenemy kind of situation
27:52between those two groups of artists
28:05well the great thing about Dylan going to New York
28:08is if the stars and planets weren't in perfect alignment
28:11he'd have been on a label like Tradition
28:13he'd have been on a small folk label
28:15but the fact of the matter is he got a tremendous break
28:18he got a write-up in the New York Times from Robert Shelton
28:21Shelton had gone to see the headlining bluegrass band
28:24the Greenbrier Boys
28:25but he was stunned with Dylan's opening act set
28:28so it looked like the Greenbrier Boys and The View
28:31had opened up for Bob Dylan
28:40so Dylan, that brought him to the attention of CBS Records
28:44Albert Grossman's on the scene
28:46this very gruff, imposing manager wants to do this and that
28:49and Dylan signs with John Hammond
28:51the significance of John Hammond is twofold
28:54one, Hammond is an A&R genius
28:58John Hammond spotted, I mean, he spotted Aretha Franklin
29:02he spotted Bruce Springsteen
29:04he got Benny Goodman
29:05I mean, John Hammond's signings are legendary
29:09so when John Hammond, who's already what we call a legacy
29:13at CBS Records
29:16when he signed Dylan, people couldn't believe it
29:20word spread throughout the company
29:22because Dylan's first album was not successful
29:24a lot of covers, right?
29:25had two originals
29:27he was called Hammond's Folly
29:28because they thought John Hammond had finally made a grievous error
29:32and signed some idiot
29:33you know, Dylan just couldn't sing, couldn't play
29:35what's his point?
29:39did Bob Dylan pave the way for the blue-collar voice of Bruce Springsteen?
29:43perhaps, I couldn't say for sure
29:44did he pay for the way for grunge?
29:47people say that
29:47I couldn't really say for sure
29:49the one that I kind of like is
29:51and this may be reaching
29:52is did Bob Dylan pave the way for hip-hop?
29:55well, if you listen to Subterranean Homesick Blues
29:57that to me is the first hip-hop song
29:59you know, Chuck D, Snoop, they may say I'm nuts
30:02but I mean, to me, that's the first hip-hop song
30:26there's a lot of almost rapping in Dylan's songs
30:28because he's packed in so many syllables to the bar
30:31in fact, in some of Dylan's songs
30:33he's packed in more syllables that are allowed in the bar
30:37and he's got to cram it all in to make it make sense
30:39which is why he sort of breaks meter
30:41it's not like
30:42da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da
30:45it's like da-da-da-da-da-da
30:46and even though the song is just going like this clip
30:49he's got to go
30:50to put all the words in
30:51he can do it
30:52which goes back also
30:53not just he's some founder of rap
30:55but that he's a great singer
30:56that he can do that
30:57God knows when
30:59but you're doing it again
31:10certainly when you're a guy like Bob Dylan
31:12your influence is so multifaceted
31:16and so pronounced
31:18that there's a number of ways
31:19you can sort of scratch your chin
31:21and go back and say
31:22well he was doing this then
31:23and I couldn't really
31:25I'm not enough of a musicologist to prove it for certain
31:27but I do think
31:28sure there's some strength to those arguments
31:31I just write them
31:32I don't know
31:35I just write them because nobody says you can't write them
31:40at least where I come from
31:43yeah I wouldn't really call them stories
31:45stories are things which have a beginning, middle and end
31:48my things are more like short attention span things
31:57that happens in a group of crowded people
31:59that goes down very quickly
32:02so a normal eye wouldn't even notice it
32:08there are certain rules and regulations to it
32:11I mean
32:14you just don't sit down and write a song
32:15you know
32:15I mean
32:16there's a certain amount of learning
32:17you have to
32:19you know
32:19to go through to
32:20to get to that point
32:21and
32:24not only living experience
32:25but I mean
32:26you also have to learn how to
32:27you know
32:27you have to learn how to play an instrument
32:29some kind of
32:32you know
32:32you have to carry some kind of tune I guess
32:34by the time Bob Dylan
32:35had made and released his second album
32:38he'd scrapped an interim album called Bob Dylan's Blues
32:40he made with John Hammond in the booth
32:43the brilliant, iconic, to this day
32:45mega album
32:46Free Will and Bob Dylan
32:47it's not mega
32:48and I'm not throwing my hands up
32:49because it sold millions of copies like Thriller
32:51by Michael Jackson
32:52it's mega
32:52because the level of songwriting on it
32:54is through the roof
32:55you can't believe it's the guy in the first album
32:57I mean this is stuff like
32:58blowing in the wind
32:59Oxford Town
33:00a hard rain's gonna fall
33:01I mean the imagery of a hard rain's gonna fall
33:03it's just staggering
33:04it's the rare folk song
33:06you can put on a piece of paper
33:08and hand it out in English class
33:09as poetry
33:10it's brilliant
33:12where hunger is ugly
33:14where the souls are forgotten
33:18where black is the color
33:20where none is the number
33:25and I'll tell it and speak it
33:27and think it and breathe it
33:31and reflect from the mountains
33:33so all souls can see it
33:37Now Hammond is proven
33:39to have yet another winner on his hand
33:41another legacy act
33:43and so when Bob Dylan got involved
33:45with CBS and John Hammond
33:47it was a huge break
33:48he could have put out an album
33:50like Free Will and Bob Dylan
33:52on Folkways
33:53on Vanguard
33:54or on Tradition Records
33:56these perfectly honorable
33:58folky labels of the day
34:00and it wouldn't have had
34:011 25th of the impact
34:04it did coming out on Columbia
34:06so as time goes on
34:08the thing that happens
34:09is a guy like Bob Dylan
34:10gets bored
34:10after two or three albums
34:11in a genre he splits
34:12there's three electric albums
34:14the two country and western albums
34:16and three if you want to count
34:16self portrait
34:17quote unquote religious period
34:19by the time he gets to saved
34:21he's already bored
34:22gotta move on
34:23that's our Bob
34:24so he's an artist
34:26he's restless
34:26it goes back to what I was saying
34:27about the muse
34:28I mean look at Picasso
34:31he has five periods of greatness
34:33Picasso
34:33Picasso could have stopped
34:35after say the blue period
34:36and he's a genius
34:37he keeps going
34:38he could have stopped
34:39at being a cubist
34:40he keeps going
34:41Miles Davis
34:41I think jazzers would say
34:43he's got five distinct periods
34:44like Dylan
34:45you notice Miles Davis' appearances
34:47changes to each one
34:48the protest Bob Dylan
34:50would never appear
34:50with an electric band
34:51he's now dressed like a
34:52Carnaby Street dandy
34:53the Carnaby Street dandy
34:55would never make those
34:55Nashville albums
34:56he's now wearing denim
34:57and very farm like apparel
35:01he's gonna work on the farm
35:02and Miles was the same way
35:04this is what great artists do
35:05when they shed a skin
35:07they shed all the skin
35:09and dress and act
35:10and sound differently
35:11the great artists
35:13take their audience with them
35:14which is what
35:15Miles Davis Picasso
35:16Bob Dylan all did
35:23Dylan was gonna be on
35:24Ed Sullivan in 1963
35:26that's like the Sunday Night
35:27at the London Palladium
35:28in the UK
35:28it was huge
35:29everybody watched
35:30my entire family watched
35:32it was a variety show
35:33they'd have things like
35:34where the guy would spin the plates
35:35you know he'd have a stick
35:37and it'd be like six feet long
35:39and he would keep the plate
35:40and then you'd do this and that
35:41and then this plate started to fall
35:43so he spins the stick really quickly
35:44and elephants come on
35:46and do stupid tricks
35:47like the elephant would bow to Ed Sullivan
35:49you know I mean just stupid ass stuff
35:51but the music part was incredibly influential
35:54if you appeared on the Ed Sullivan show
35:56and sang a song that knocked
35:57everybody's socks off
35:59people the next day
36:00were going to the record store
36:01saying I wanna buy the single
36:04everybody Bob Dylan would
36:05want to do well on the Ed Sullivan show
36:08and be nice
36:09and I hope they like me
36:10and invite me back
36:11I would
36:12Dylan goes on
36:13he sings
36:14runs through some songs
36:15he sings a song called
36:16Talking John Birch Society Blues
36:18which is a satire about the right wing
36:21John Birch Society
36:22and Ed loved it
36:24Ed Sullivan to his credit
36:25thought it was great
36:26but somebody in standards and practices
36:29that's the department of CBS
36:32where the lawyers are
36:33thought no
36:34that's got a lawsuit written all over it
36:36we can't have this short little guy
36:38sing this song
36:40we'll have John Birch Society lawyers
36:42up to yin yang
36:43so Dylan was told
36:45Ed really loves you
36:46but you can't sing that one song in particular
36:49and Dylan stuck his heels in
36:51and got Grossman on his side
36:53and they said
36:53if we don't sing this song we walk
36:55and Ed Sullivan
36:56and his people couldn't believe it
36:58who's this little guy
36:59to stand up to me
37:00and they said
37:00you can't have you sing it
37:02I'm sorry
37:02my lawyers say you can't sing it
37:03and they walked
37:04Dylan said bye
37:06well sometimes
37:08it's easier to be polite
37:09than it is to be rude
37:11sometimes the other way around
37:13you know
37:13everyone is a puppet master
37:15everybody likes to control puppets
37:17and pull their strings
37:17but without saying
37:18I have nobody's puppet
37:19nobody pulls my strings
37:21you know
37:22and uh
37:24I'm sorry
37:25you know
37:25I just don't
37:26I don't like that scene
37:29he has some backbone
37:31he has some spine
37:3399.9% of all the singers
37:35that have ever existed
37:36would have gone along with Ed Sullivan
37:37and said okay we won't sing that song
37:39we'll sing something innocuous
37:40something that is palatable to the masses
37:42it shows who
37:45not necessarily who the winners are in society
37:47but it shows how society is so frequently molded by the forceful
37:50Dylan knew
37:52yeah I'm going away today
37:53I'm not on network TV
37:54but I'm coming back another day stronger
37:56and I'll damn well sing that day
37:58what I want
38:02here is a guy
38:03that's cracked show business
38:06I'm successful
38:07one man, one guitar
38:09original songs
38:10no one's heard the like of before
38:1199.9% of all the singers in history
38:14would have stopped
38:16I'll
38:16I've cracked it
38:17I'm making money
38:18people like me
38:19I'm popular
38:19women like me
38:20hey hey
38:20my dreams come true
38:22I'll keep my acoustic guitar
38:24my original songs
38:25forever
38:26and if I go out of favor
38:27well I've had a good run
38:28Dylan
38:29leaves the category
38:30I'm not picking the acoustic guitar up anymore
38:32I'm going to play electric music
38:33and when he was successful with that
38:35he stops and starts seeing country and western
38:38which a lot of young people don't understand
38:40country and western was dad
38:42not even dads
38:43it was grandma's music
38:44back in the 60s
38:45it was unhip
38:46it was right wing
38:47it was
38:47no one had long hair with dry hair
38:49they all had slicked back
38:50greased back hair
38:51and they were rednecks
38:52pro-Vietnam War
38:55he's not only left behind
38:57that which made him famous once
38:59he's done it several times
39:02you know you just don't see that in popular music
39:05there's a lot of things about Bob Dylan's electric period
39:08which bugs people
39:08there's no overt song against the Vietnam War
39:11there isn't one
39:155.2.700.000 Americanos sirvieron in Vietnam
39:22clearly our side I believe that's the aggressor in Vietnam
39:25I think the real question of course is one that he hasn't answered yet
39:30does he really mean that we're going to withdraw our troops
39:33and not insist that our puppets stay in charge in South Vietnam
39:37priority foreign policy objective of our next administration
39:41will to be bring an honorable end to the war in Vietnam
39:47when Dylan was making those albums in the early 1960s
39:50there were two key factors as we look back
39:53he's dating the fabulous Susie Reloto right
39:56so she was a member of CORE
39:58the Congress of Racial Equality
40:00I think she worked there
40:01and she was very involved in left-wing politics
40:04they're interested in integration
40:06they're interested in workers rights
40:08they're interested in women's rights
40:10and she has got Bob's ear
40:14and of course with his hibbing Minnesota
40:16iron ore socialist farm labor party upbringing
40:21those kind of people were his neighbors
40:22it's easy for Bob to accept that message
40:25and of course Bob in Greenwich Village
40:27Greenwich Village is one of the least prejudiced places in America
40:30even before the First World War
40:32there were integrated parties
40:33where black and white writers
40:36were talking about their plays and their poetry and their novels
40:38and it was not a big deal
40:40well you wouldn't have had black and white writers
40:42talking in Atlanta, Georgia and Nashville, Tennessee at a party
40:45there had been two separate parties
40:46so Dylan is just way in with that crowd
40:51but after a while I feel, if others don't
40:54that he had so much spotlight and pressure on him
40:57to keep being this protest guy
40:59he thought no, I want to be more than that
41:02he recently said
41:04actually when I came out of hibbing I wanted to be Elvis
41:07I didn't want to be the Messiah
41:09and I didn't want to be Woody Guthrie
41:10I just wanted to be kind of Elvis
41:12a popular singer
41:13now whether or not he played folk music or rock
41:17to become a popular singer or more popular singer
41:19I'll never know
41:20but he said that
41:23he never wanted these spokesperson of a generation
41:27accolades and titles stuck on him
41:30never wanted that
41:31he wanted to be a popular singer
41:34whatever it is that's happened to us
41:36the mad atomic world today
41:38is a place that substitutes kicks for joy
41:42if I could have gone
41:43I'd say hello everybody
41:44how you doing out there
41:45and they'd say play a song
41:46play a song
41:47I'd say oh man
41:47I don't feel like it right now
41:49and that would be in the press
41:50what I was doing
41:50he was grumpy
41:52he was moody
41:53he was a recluse
41:54he came out for a few minutes
41:55and he said hello to the audience
41:56and he went back into his trailer or something
41:59into the seclusion of his own little kingdom
42:02which is what people would say
42:05if you can work
42:07that's the most
42:08that's all you can ask
42:09in this day and age
42:11you can't take that for granted
42:16just to work
42:20to be able to work
42:22is what a person should strive after
42:44the royal prize in literature for 2016
42:48is awarded to Bob Dylan
42:50for having created new poetic expressions
42:54within the great American song tradition
42:58we are living in a time when it's all about
43:01technology and math and AI
43:04and arts are being ripped out of schools
43:07music is free
43:08you know it harkens back to a time
43:10when those things had value
43:12how can AI create art or human empathy
43:14or emotions the same way that a song can
43:17it just it can't
43:18and the fact that that's what we're
43:20that's what we're placing value on
43:22not the human experience
43:23I think is very scary
43:24so the fact that he was celebrated in that way
43:27I think is important
43:30he's a great poet
43:32and at the same time
43:33he embodies the tradition
43:35and he handles it in a very original way
43:39he himself once said
43:40that I'm a thief of thoughts
43:46Bob Dylan receiving the Nobel Prize
43:49is important and meaningful and huge
43:52in a lot of different ways
43:53he's the only artist to ever receive
43:56that specific title
44:00it's oral poetry
44:02it's meant to be listened to
44:03and you may think that's strange
44:05but then if you think back
44:07you think back to Homer and Sappho
44:10you realize
44:11well that was also oral poetry
44:13it was meant to be performed
44:14together with instruments
44:16but we still read them
44:182500 some years later
44:20we still read them
44:22when Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize for Literature
44:25in 2016
44:25there was
44:26a great controversy
44:28in some circles
44:29in the literary
44:32salons of the world
44:34not just the United States of the world
44:35many people felt he's a songwriter
44:37and he's not really one of literature
44:41his one book Chronicles Volume 1
44:43may not be enough
44:45to get him
44:46the Nobel Prize for Literature
44:49but the fact remains
44:50many of Dylan's songs
44:52are the rare pop songs
44:54that are stand aside poetry
44:56subtract the music from them
44:58don't make them on a record
44:59just print them on an A4 typing page
45:02and you tell me that's not poetry
45:04very good
45:05ok
45:05his art consists of the melding
45:07the merging
45:08the combination of words and music
45:11they go together
45:12you can't really have one without the other
45:14in my view
45:14but that's a perfectly
45:16legitimate literary form
45:17imagine someone of the order of T.S. Eliot
45:20say
45:20or of that kind of poetic genius
45:22having a mass audience
45:24being heard in that kind of way
45:25Dylan has done that in a way
45:26that no one else
45:28could have possibly imagined
45:29anybody doing 50 years ago
45:31so sure
45:32it's a great
45:32it's an extraordinary achievement
45:36it's also important to remember
45:38the impact that Dylan had on the literature audience
45:42and this is going to sound pompous
45:43but Dylan did literature a bit of a favor
45:45he brought people into the world of literature
45:49that would have been stuck watching TV
45:51or maybe reading comic books
45:54over and over again
45:55Dylan in my opinion
45:57showed he was both artistically of great literary merit
46:00and he was a friend of literature as well
46:02and gave literature a spotlight to shine
46:07and draw in an audience
46:09that thousands of high school English and humanities teachers
46:13couldn't do
46:13Dylan did their job for them
46:16and in a way
46:17if you'll allow me to say it
46:19the world of literature owed him
46:22in a way owed him that Nobel Prize
46:24he did them a great service
46:29what Dylan was really attacking
46:31if you'll allow me to say it
46:33and this is my opinion alone
46:34this is Sid Griffin speaking
46:37is conformity
46:37that sort of
46:38mad men frankly
46:40people aspired
46:42to have short back and sides
46:44and wear a two or three piece suit
46:45and be on Madison Avenue
46:46making a lot of money
46:47telling America to drink a ginger ale
46:49or smoke a cigarette
46:50that America didn't really need to know about at all
46:53that was kind of what people in the suburbs aspired to
46:56it's understandable
46:57when a lot of those guys were of the World War II generation
46:59they just wanted a steady job
47:01but Dylan is like
47:04no
47:04no to the country club
47:05no to the golf course
47:07no to the suit
47:08no to the steady job
47:10no to the
47:11let's buy this product
47:12and have clean breath
47:14no to
47:15let's buy this product
47:16and every hair in my head
47:17will be in place the whole day long
47:19Bob Dylan is saying no to conformity
47:21in the 60s people thought Bob Dylan
47:23was a visitor
47:25from the future
47:27and now that we look at his career
47:28he's actually a visitor from the past
47:31you know America has a tradition of standing up for yourself
47:34and free speech and protest
47:36but he kind of took it to another level
47:39he took it to a popular culture level
47:41but it became a lifestyle and a lens to look at
47:44what was happening around you at that time
47:46in a way that I don't think many other artists have been able to do successfully
47:53in 300 years there are X amount of great songwriters that people won't really know about or follow
47:58I promise you that in 300 years somebody will be at university discussing Bob Dylan in the way that they
48:07discuss
48:08T.S. Eliot or Dylan Thomas or Cicero or Cervantes
48:11I promise you they will
48:14it's like I got enough love around me you know
48:19so I don't need no people's love
48:20I don't need to go out to play to a crowd of 20, 30, 50,000 people for their love
48:25some performers have to you know but I don't
48:28I got enough love just in my immediate surrounding so
48:35so I don't care I don't I don't need
48:37you know what I'm talking about
48:38I come through good times and bad times
48:41you know
48:42so I'm not fooled by good times and bad times
48:45right now
48:46yeah you know making a movie going you know
48:48playing some big tours
48:52but I've seen the bottom too you know
48:55I'm not God you know
48:58God only knows all these things
49:24I on Google outs
49:27sure
49:27I'm right
49:30you
49:31I will
49:31этой
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