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Catching Up with the Royals - Season 1 - Episode 01
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00:00Welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, the show that gives you a glimpse into what life is really like
00:05behind palace walls.
00:06Here for your royal lowdown and bringing you the secrets of the firm, it's me, Richard Coles.
00:11And me, Emily Andrews.
00:13Today on Catching Up With The Royals, I have travelled around the world with William and Kate.
00:18Off camera, they've always been very tactile.
00:20He's actually kind of, well, I think the word is hot.
00:24I would say the Prince of Wales is hot.
00:26We'll be discussing the latest on Harry's reconciliation with his father.
00:31I sometimes think with Harry, there's always a sense that he's a sort of knight of old on a mission.
00:35The King does want a relationship with his son.
00:38Delving into another fractured royal relationship as we discuss the latest on Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
00:44What I have been told is that usually he hasn't cut her parents off.
00:49How would you solve a problem like Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor? I don't know.
00:52We'll be releasing new episodes every Thursday.
00:55You can listen wherever you get your podcasts and please do watch us on our YouTube channel.
01:01Plus, you can tune in every Saturday on 5 and stream us on 5 too.
01:07So, Richard, I think Catching Up With The Royals is going to be fabulous.
01:14The go girl, as I believe they say.
01:23Well, Richard, this is so exciting.
01:25It's lovely to see you, Emily. How are you?
01:27I am really well, thank you. I'm delighted to be catching up with the Royals with you. How are you
01:32today?
01:33I'm very well indeed, thank you.
01:35I've been away, so I feel slightly disconnected from the gossip, which I know flows through your devices like water
01:42through a stream.
01:43Where have you been?
01:45I've been in South Africa, having a lovely time.
01:48Lovely.
01:48But it seems very distant from the comings and goings of the British Royal Family.
01:53And there has been some comings and some goings.
01:55There certainly have. There's been some comings.
01:57From another Africa enthusiast, Prince Harry has been in the UK, of which more later on Catching Up With The
02:03Royals.
02:04But first, shall we start with the Prince and Princess of Wales?
02:08Yes, who are off-piste in terms of them being Prince and Princess of Wales, so they've gone north, haven't
02:13they?
02:13They've gone north. Kate and William had a bit of a royal reset, I think, last week.
02:19It was their first joint engagement of January.
02:21They went to Scotland and they had a day of engagements in Falkirk and Stirling.
02:28Well, how lovely for them and for Falkirk and Stirling.
02:34Well, it was lovely. I mean, look, the Royals love Scotland.
02:37Yes, I love Scotland.
02:38And it's totally genuine. It is a totally genuine love affair.
02:41Yeah, and also we forget, don't we, that the Royal Family thinks of itself as a Scottish thing as well
02:46as an English thing.
02:47Yes.
02:48And as well as your Prince and Prince, as well as a Welsh thing, I think.
02:50But they are very much at home there.
02:51Very much at home.
02:52And then there's a sensational coat.
02:53Yeah, you took Richard. You took the words out of my mouth. I love you.
02:59I love Kate's clothing. Is that a bit geeky to say?
03:03And I feel like on my tombstone, maybe you could etch Emily Andrews.
03:08She knew a lot about Catherine's wardrobe.
03:12Kate or, oh, actually, let's, a quick, a quick, for catching up the Royals.
03:16Okay.
03:16Are we going to call her Kate or Catherine?
03:19I don't know. I think Kate seems to come more naturally to me now.
03:22Although, I don't know. What do you say?
03:24Kate Middleton still gets the most SEO, search engine optimisation.
03:29Oh, so in the public mind she's...
03:30Which is why you still get a lot of online articles calling her Kate Middleton.
03:35Oh, I see.
03:36I know.
03:36And in Scotland, she's probably Kate McCateface, right?
03:39She's the Duchess of Rossi.
03:41Of course she is.
03:42The Duchess of Rossi.
03:43So wherever they go...
03:45I'd probably mispronounce that now, Richard.
03:47It's Rossi.
03:48Rossi.
03:49Yeah.
03:49Well, that's what they say up there.
03:50Rossi.
03:50I was mooned there once, but that's another story.
03:53That's another story. You have to tell me that after.
03:54Okay.
03:55So there they were. Kate was wearing a lovely coat, bespoke. She is great at kind of diplomatic
04:01dressing.
04:02Yeah.
04:02Well, I thought it was really interesting, this away day up in Scotland, because they packed
04:08in, I think, three or four engagements. And they also did a walkabout, which is what
04:13William and Kate are very good at, I think. She's naturally quite reserved.
04:17When I've met her in private, she's got a cracking sense of humour. But she is quite controlled
04:24and you don't really see that side of her so much. But what I thought on that visit last
04:31week in Scotland, someone, she and William were outside and they were chatting to the
04:35crowd. And someone called out Kate, I think, even, not even Catherine. And she sort of ran over because
04:41there was a child who wanted to say hello. And I thought that really showed a real kind of ease
04:50with the job and a real kind of ease with what she was doing. William and Kate were visiting the
04:56National Curling Academy because, of course, we've got the Winter Olympics next month.
04:59Very exciting.
04:59And Team GB, hopefully, are going to get us some curling medals.
05:02And I have form in curling.
05:04Do you?
05:05Yes, I have. I was once asked to leave the ice rink at Perth curling because I was too intoxicated,
05:10they felt, to wield a curling stone. This is a bit of background. It's not helping us, is it?
05:15Well, I hope it helps Team GB in the curling in the Winter Olympics. But it was a front page
05:21picture.
05:22That picture of the Princess of Wales, she had a go at curling. And she was wearing a very long
05:27skirt.
05:27She took, she'd taken the tartan coat off by this point. And she had a rather, with a rather
05:31cool little knitted vest. I heard that she passed the coat in a rather casual way to her husband,
05:36who took it like a beautiful husband, rather than there being, I don't know, a kind of groom of the
05:41coat waiting. A flunky. The other thing that struck me about it is that they're quite touchy-feely,
05:45aren't they? They do, they do seem kind of warmly at ease in each other's company.
05:52They do. And what's been really interesting is to sort of see the evolution of that on the public
05:57stage. I'm quite lucky, having covered the Royals since 2013, I have traveled around the world with
06:06William and Kate. So I've seen them sort of, I mean, they're always on duty when there's a journalist
06:10around, but I've seen them off camera a lot. And actually off camera, they've always been very
06:13tactile. William is a proper gent. He opens doors for her. He allows Catherine to go in front of him.
06:20He always is kind of checking to make sure she's okay. Out of the two of them, he's been born
06:26into
06:26this institution. He's been doing the job, so to speak, since he left university, really. And he's
06:31always tried to sort of help her in any way he can. But what was interesting was that we never
06:36saw that
06:37when they were on camera, they wouldn't hold hands, they wouldn't be tactile. The most that would happen
06:42would be they kind of look at each other and that would be, you could kind of read it, but
06:46it never really
06:46kind of translated on the, on the moving image. But what's been interesting recently is that they
06:52seem much more comfortable in showing that more tactile side. You might see them holding hands,
06:56or you might see William's hand in the small of Catherine's back.
07:00Do you think this is new year, new reboot, new look? There's a sense of something being done
07:05differently?
07:06I think it's a bit of a royal reset. Yes, because I think Catherine has had a pretty torrid
07:12two years. Well, to be fair, so's William. I mean, he talked about 2024 as being the most
07:18difficult and brutal of his life, which when you consider his mum died when he was 15, that's quite
07:23something for him, not to say that 97 was the worst year of his life. And obviously, Catherine,
07:29when she got, that she went into remission and then she got the all clear from her cancer this,
07:34this last January, Kensington Palace and her team made it very clear that she would have a very slow
07:40return to work. And in fact, that was, was a very sensible, I think, path, because you remember,
07:47you were at Ascot last year, weren't you? When she, she didn't come.
07:51Yes, I had an encounter with, um, with the Prince of Wales.
07:55Did you now? Tell me more.
07:57Well, I accidentally walked into his box.
08:00Accidentally?
08:01No, I did, because I'd been in it earlier before he turned up and then I walked into it and
08:05the
08:05bloke said, outside said, oh, are you, have you been in here before? And I said, well, yes, I have,
08:09indeed I had. And I walked in and then I, there was this sort of inside guy and he kind
08:13of ushered me
08:14out. And, uh,
08:15He saw you coming.
08:16Well, I just, it was him and his, and his pals. And, uh, he looked at me and I looked
08:21at him and
08:22he kind of nodded. And that is the full extent of my relationship with the Prince of Wales. I have
08:26to say though, he's very, you know how some people look very different from how they appear on telly?
08:33He's actually kind of, well, I think the word is hot.
08:37I would say the Prince of Wales is hot. Is that okay to say that?
08:41Well, I'm sure I'm saying it, but I mean, you know, under his sort of kind, you know,
08:44formal and proper and everything, but actually he's got a sort of physicality about him,
08:49which I'm not sure, you know, the camera necessarily picks up.
08:51Not only is William charismatic and funny, he is quite physically imposing.
08:59Yeah.
08:59He's slim and tall, but with these broad shoulders. Now I don't want to objectify anybody,
09:04at least of all the Prince of Wales, but when you, when you chat to him and he is,
09:11I don't, I, yeah, he has a real attractiveness that I think, uh, you know, people often say,
09:17don't they, that when he was young, he had the hair and he looked like his mom.
09:19And now he's kind of lost his looks. I completely disagree. He has a magnetism in real life.
09:24I think so. I mean, he has a charisma that comes with the job, I guess,
09:27but he also has a physical charisma, which was quite a surprise for me.
09:30Yeah.
09:31Ooh, ooh, matron.
09:33Now, we're coming up to a break and, um, I want you to ask a question that I wish to
09:38be considered.
09:39Okay. Is this going to tax me? Probably.
09:42No, I don't think, I think you'll get this, but it's for the benefit of people.
09:45I feel pressure, Richard.
09:46Don't feel pressure.
09:47Okay.
09:47Don't feel pressure. It's a good pressure.
09:48Who is the most popular royal according to a recent YouGov survey?
09:54Okay.
09:55Answer after the break.
10:00Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
10:02And you can catch up with us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts,
10:06or on YouTube, or every Saturday on 5.
10:10Before the break, I pose the question, Emily, who are the most popular members of the royal family?
10:15I know you'll know this.
10:17I think Richard, the Prince and Princess of Wales, William and Catherine.
10:20You're right.
10:20And do you know how many of us say we like them?
10:23I seem to remember reading 77% approval rating.
10:27On the nose, 77%.
10:28Makes you wonder what the other 23% are thinking, but that's for another day.
10:32Yeah.
10:33A royal couple who perhaps don't enjoy those numbers would be Harry and Meghan.
10:37And of course, Harry has been back on this side of the Atlantic.
10:40He has.
10:41Last week, he was in London for the third of his court cases against the British press.
10:48So there's been the case against the Mirror, which he partially won, and then the Sun that settled.
10:53And then last week, it was against the publishers of the Daily Mail, which Harry and six other claimants, very
10:59high profile, Liz Hurley, Sadie Frost, Baroness Lawrence, Stephen Lawrence's mum, they allege that the Mail and the Mail on
11:06Sunday have written a number of articles through phone hacking and illegal information gathering.
11:12Important to say that Associated deny any illegality.
11:17And it was interesting because I wondered whether on the very steps of the High Court, there might be a
11:23settlement worked between Harry, Elton John, Sadie Frost, the other claimants and Associated.
11:30But Associated, both sides wanted to fight this case.
11:34It's nine weeks, projected cost of £40 million, Richard.
11:39Yeah.
11:40And Harry had his day in court last week.
11:42How'd it go?
11:44Well, I think he found it very tough.
11:47I've got a lot of time for Prince Harry.
11:49I know you have too.
11:50Yeah.
11:51He's an emotional man.
11:53He has talked in the past about wanting to slay the dragon of the British press.
11:58Fair enough.
11:59And he was questioned for a number of hours by Associated King's Council.
12:07And he had to be told off by the judge a couple of times because he was kind of giving,
12:11he was doing David Sherbin, his barrister's job for him.
12:14And I think he just, he really...
12:16Hang on, David Sherbin, wasn't that the Wagatha Christie guy?
12:19Well done.
12:20It was.
12:21You're on this.
12:22He acted and won for Colleen Rooney.
12:26Harry's complaining about a number of articles that he says can only have come through phone hacking or illegal information
12:31gathering, of which Associated completely deny.
12:33But I think it's really got to him, you know.
12:36I think it's really got to him because at the end of Wednesday, he almost broke down in tears.
12:44David Sherbin, his barrister, was asking him about how it affected him.
12:49And Harry said something along the lines of, you know, the worst of it is I've had to come to
12:54court, relive all this, and they have made my wife's life a complete misery.
13:02Most of the articles that Harry was complaining about concerned his relationships with Chelsea Davy or Cresta Bonas, his two
13:09sort of most serious girlfriends.
13:13But inevitably, unfortunately, Prince William has been dragged into it as well.
13:18Oh dear.
13:18And yes, which I don't think is going to help fraternal relations.
13:24Anything to read in Prince William and Catherine choosing to be at exactly the other end of the country at
13:30the time that Harry was in London?
13:32I think that was probably a considered decision, Richard.
13:37But of course, you know, the king was also supposed to be in Scotland.
13:40Supposed to be?
13:41Well, yes, he was supposed to be, and he was, but he actually came back to London for the day
13:47when Harry was in court, but he didn't see Harry.
13:52Right.
13:53So what do we think about hopes for reconciliation with his father?
13:56Because, of course, the last time Harry saw his father was in September last year.
14:02They hadn't seen each other for 18 months.
14:03They hadn't spoken to each other.
14:05This was the big olive branch.
14:06This was the cup of tea at Clarence House and a slice of chocolate cake.
14:09But then this time, the king didn't see his son.
14:12It's all getting mixed up in my mind now with the dramas of the House of Beckham.
14:16Oh, yes.
14:17Because there's a similar kind of thing happening, isn't there, with sort of Brooklyn, who seems to be at war
14:22with his own parents and his own family.
14:24It's a dynasty thing, isn't it?
14:25Yeah.
14:26And I wonder too if there's, you know, he has that thing with Prince Harry.
14:28Have you sensed that someone is kind of searching for an identity when it's hard to do that because the
14:33identity is sort of handed out with the jaw?
14:35I think it must be really difficult for both men, for Brooklyn and for Harry,
14:39because they've both grown up, had childhoods where they have, you know, very high-achieving parents,
14:44and obviously in Harry's case, grandmother and, well, and grandfather.
14:47And you've got to live up to the name.
14:51I feel very sorry for both men.
14:54I mean, the Brooklyn Beckham thing was kind of extraordinary, but it is also following the Prince Harry playbook, isn't
15:00it?
15:01I kind of hope their friends are that somewhere there are some blurred snaps that Brooklyn's taken of Harry kind
15:06of making one of his beef burgers.
15:07Yes.
15:08You think that could happen?
15:09Or maybe, maybe Meghan's made her and Nicola and Harry and Brooklyn some of her famous cocktails with some dried
15:18flower sprinkles.
15:19Or what about her jam that's not jam?
15:21The jam is not jam.
15:22The raspberry spread.
15:23Maybe she sent some to Brooklyn and Nicola.
15:25They don't live far away, I think, because they live in L.A., don't they?
15:28And the Sussexes live in Montecito.
15:30They've got to overlap, don't you think?
15:31I have a feeling it was the Paramount boss, who Meghan is good friends with, brought them together,
15:35or there was some dinner party that they were all at.
15:38Well, think of the jam.
15:39That's not jam.
15:40The jam.
15:40The spread being handed out.
15:42Yes.
15:43Hampers and hampers and hampers of raspberry.
15:44Hampers and hampers of raspberry.
15:45Hampers and hampers of jam.
15:45Non-jam.
15:46I sometimes think with Harry, there's always a sense that he's a sort of knight of old on a mission,
15:50and that he is kind of going to joust away at the press.
15:53Yes, and actually the language that he's used in the past is quite Arthurian.
15:57He's literally talked about slaying the dragon.
16:00That is how he, so in that kind of medieval imagery, you know, you can see him with a,
16:05you know, perhaps that, in Windsor Castle, there's that suit of armour that fitted Henry VIII.
16:09You can almost see Harry kind of putting it on in the helmet and the visor down and getting the
16:14sword.
16:14Whenever I've spoken to Harry, sort of off camera, so to speak, he is absolutely someone who wears his heart
16:21on his sleeve.
16:22He's a very emotional guy, which I say is a positive.
16:26And he said to me, you know, Emily, I get out of bed every morning and I think, how can
16:30I serve?
16:31What can I do?
16:32How can I make things better?
16:34Which is brilliant.
16:35I mean, like, what an amazing kind of way to start your day.
16:38What an affirmation.
16:39He wants to kind of reform the British press.
16:43It's twofold.
16:44I think he wants to reform the British press, but which, you know, frankly, the British press don't have any
16:50money anymore.
16:51I mean, he's kind of fighting a case.
16:53The dragon's already dead.
16:54The dragon's dead.
16:55They've got no money.
16:57I know Leveson 2 didn't happen, but the British press are pretty well behaved and very much at heel because
17:05they have to be.
17:06But the other thing for Harry is that it's a personal mission, not just to try and help everybody else,
17:15but also because of his mother.
17:17In his evidence and in his witness statement, he talked about effectively how he believes the press killed his mother.
17:23And he doesn't want the same thing to happen to him or, more importantly, his wife.
17:29Look, what Harry and William as children went through at the hands of the paparazzi was horrific.
17:36And I don't think we will, well, I hope we'll never, but I think we'll ever see that happen again.
17:42You know, Harry, it's instrumental that William and Catherine and their three children can go about their private life.
17:49And we know nothing about it.
17:51It's even more impressive in the age of the smartphone that nothing is on social media.
17:56You'd never see pictures printed of Charlotte, George and Louis.
18:00I think I can totally understand why Harry feels the way he does.
18:06The press killed his mum, how he feels that he doesn't want anything to happen to anyone else again.
18:10But I really do feel that he's fighting a fight that is 15 years out of date.
18:16And also, it's a risky fight in the sense that royals in the witness stand is an uncomfortable situation to
18:24be in, in lots of ways, isn't it?
18:25I mean, I know, I'm trying to think, you hardly ever get that, don't you?
18:29Yeah, it's interesting, because he said in his witness statement and in his evidence, you know,
18:33I was part of the institution that never complained, never explained.
18:37But that's not true, Richard.
18:39It's interesting, yeah.
18:40I mean, look, it's, I quite like his kind of, or who, maybe Sherban's or the solicitor's theatrics of, you
18:46know, invoking that famous, you know, never complain, never explain.
18:49Unlike us, Richard, with catching up with the royals, we always explain.
18:53I quite like to complain, too.
18:55You complain.
18:56You complain.
18:57I'll explain.
18:59But he said that he was part of this institution, never complained, never explained.
19:02But actually, I mean, as recently as last year, the Prince and Princess of Wales, William and Catherine, sued a
19:08French magazine for printing pictures of them on a ski holiday in Corchevel in France.
19:15Famously, infamously, when a paparazzo photographer took pictures of Kate sunbathing, topless, in her, in, you know, in a private
19:25chateau that belonged to Viscount Lindley, they sued the French and the Italian magazines that printed those pictures.
19:34Charles, now King, but when he was Prince of Wales, he sued the Mail on Sunday for invasion of privacy
19:40when he, when they printed his personal, those infamous black spider letters.
19:45So there is form for the royals to take recourse to the courts.
19:52It's just that it doesn't happen very often.
19:53And it was a bit of a, bit of a PR spin, I thought, from Harry to try and suggest
19:59that the institution never complains, never explains, because that's just not true.
20:04The King can't do it now, though, can he?
20:06And that was the reason, I think, why the King didn't see Harry while Harry was in London last week.
20:13Unusually, Buckingham Palace briefed that the King would not be seeing Harry.
20:18I think, you know, at the beginning of January, we all knew that Harry was going to come over and
20:23be there for the first week of the trial, stand shoulder to shoulder with the other claimants.
20:29But Buckingham Palace briefed that the King wouldn't see his son because the King didn't want to get kind of
20:36caught up in any of the court battles.
20:39And for me, the battles that Harry, Harry has been using the British court system, both to try and get
20:47his security reinstated, his taxpayer funded security, and for his battle against the British press.
20:52He's been, he's been using the British court system to complain and complain vociferously, as is his right as a
20:59private citizen.
21:00But the monarch, he's head of the British judiciary.
21:03He cannot be seen to be taking sides.
21:06And he, the King, I think, in his sort of role as head of the institution, not as paterfamilias, not
21:12as father, but as paterfamilias of the institution, took the decision that he could not see his son whilst Harry
21:20was engaging in all this litigation because it was just too dangerous.
21:23It's another, you know, we sort of agonise with them over their horrible family relationships and how difficult it is.
21:28But of course, there is this always, this constitutional dynastic element in it.
21:33It's not just people, is it?
21:35There are also roles.
21:36And those roles are absolutely fundamental to the way our state functions.
21:41Totally.
21:42And I think on a personal level, you can have a huge amount of sympathy for Harry, for William, for
21:47Charles.
21:47I mean, this is a, you know, personal family psychodrama writ large, and apparently it's now very fashionable to kind
21:54of cut off your parents or cut off your family.
21:58Well, Brooklyn has seemed to be working hard on that front.
22:00I know.
22:01And apparently it's a real trend in America to sort of, to estrangement.
22:05But my sense and what my sources tell me is that the King does want a relationship with his son.
22:11He does want to see his grandchildren.
22:13I mean, I think he's only met Archie twice and Lilibet once.
22:18Harry, we know, has publicly said he wants to make up with his family.
22:22So there's a real kind of sense that certainly for the King and Harry, that they do want to reconcile
22:29and they do want to see each other.
22:31But as you say, there's always that, that issue for Charles.
22:35He's not just a father.
22:37He's not just a grandfather.
22:39He is the representation of the institution.
22:43D.O.M. Mandois, God, am I right?
22:45He is, you know, the head of the firm.
22:49And that probably always top trumps being Harry's dad.
22:52Can you imagine them drawing a line and just sort of resetting and just think, OK, all this turbulence in
22:59the past, we'll just consider that all done.
23:01Let's just try and move on and reconcile and try to find a way of being together.
23:09Well, it would be lovely to think, wouldn't it?
23:11I hope so.
23:12Yeah.
23:12I mean, I think also it's very easy to become a casualty of an institution like the monarchy, I think,
23:20or the royal family, certainly.
23:21You just hope there's a place where you could maybe heal a bit.
23:25Charles is a very spiritual man and he takes great solace in faith.
23:31And, of course, what does – forgive me, Richard, you are the expert here, but my take on faith, one
23:36of the great tenets of any religion, is forgiveness.
23:38Yeah.
23:40So –
23:41Well, I mean, I just hope there's a way that they can work that out, because I think it would
23:45be better for everybody.
23:46I mean, the House of Windsor, it keeps on giving with the family drama.
23:50So, after the break, we're going to move to another of the King's relatives who's been in the headlines, Andrew
23:57Mountbatten, Windsor.
23:59But before then – now, Richard, do you know, if you want to catch up with the royals, where on
24:04social media would you be going?
24:06Well, I'm very glad you asked that.
24:07I would go to all the places on social media where I would connect with shows such as this.
24:12Do you know I can do that on a Thursday?
24:14Or YouTube.
24:15Why not go there?
24:16Yeah.
24:16Or –
24:17Instagram?
24:17No, all the usual places, but also, of course, on Five on a Saturday.
24:20I know.
24:21On Five on a Saturday, which is pretty cool.
24:24I have a question for you.
24:25Okay.
24:26Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, as we know, in Disgraced, the former Prince Andrew, he's moving to the Sandrum Estate.
24:33But he's not allowed to take a certain thing with him.
24:39What do you think that could be?
24:41So, Richard, I'd like you to cogitate.
24:43Right.
24:43And come up with some answers for me after the break.
24:46Well, I've sketched some already.
24:53So, Richard.
24:55Yeah.
24:55I can't wait for your answers to the question that I posed before the break, which was,
25:01what one thing is Andrew banned from taking or keeping when he moves to the Sandrum Estate?
25:10I've got two.
25:11Oh, go on then.
25:11The first one is his 72 teddy bears, because now, in his reduced circumstances, who's got time to arrange his
25:1872 teddy bears?
25:19He can't have the housekeeper to do it for him.
25:22The other one, though, and I think I read this somewhere, is that the Queen has no cat's rule.
25:26The late Queen had no cat's rule at Sandringham.
25:28So, does that mean you can't take the cat?
25:30You're absolutely right.
25:31You cannot have a cat on the Sandringham Estate.
25:34It's the private estate of the royals.
25:38So, it's owned by the Windsor family, unlike Windsor Castle or Buckingham Palace, which is owned by the state for
25:44the monarch.
25:45And, yeah, no cats.
25:46Why?
25:47I think it's because of the pheasants, because Sandringham is a big shooting estate.
25:51Right.
25:51And, obviously, the cats would stalk the pheasants and kill them.
25:55You can eat all you want buffet for them.
25:57Exactly, exactly.
25:58But dogs are allowed.
26:00So, because, of course, Andrew and Fergie had the late Queen's two corgis.
26:06Yes.
26:06And so, I genuinely don't know who is going to be taking the corgis.
26:11I imagine, I'm told that it's likely that it'll be Andrew who's taking the dogs.
26:15Because he has been stripped of everything.
26:17I mean, a quick recap.
26:18I'm sure people don't need to be reminded.
26:20But, obviously, you know, he was the second son of the monarch.
26:28The favourite son.
26:29The favourite son.
26:30He was the spare, the original spare.
26:33He was good looking.
26:34He served in the Royal Navy with distinction.
26:36Fought in the Falklands.
26:37Came back with a rose between his teeth.
26:39Had the, you know, she was jolly hockey sticks, Sarah Ferguson.
26:43The marriage didn't work out, but they were held up as, you know, really good parents to Eugenie and Beatrice.
26:48And, yes, Fergie had her issues with Persona Non Grata with Prince Philip.
26:55But Andrew represented Britain around the world.
27:00He was a working royal.
27:02He had all these charitable interests and represented the armed forces, various regiments.
27:08And then, Geoffrey Epstein's scandal, he was imprisoned.
27:14And, really, it took kind of 10 years for the disgrace, the full disgrace, of the man formerly known as
27:22Prince Andrew.
27:23Nonetheless, of course, the allegations against him he completely denies.
27:25Last year, after Virginia Dufresne's very tragic suicide and the publication of her autobiography, was kind of the final nail
27:39in the coffin.
27:39And, actually, the royal family, I think, dealt with it very, very badly.
27:43I think they were desperately trying to contain this.
27:47And it's been going on and reacting.
27:49But, actually, you know, the way it was handled last autumn was an absolute playbook in how not to do
27:56PR.
27:57Because I think people might have forgotten, because now, of course, he's been stripped of his titles and his home
28:02and everything.
28:02But, actually, what happened two weeks before that was that Buckingham Palace put out a statement in Andrew's own words,
28:11saying that he was voluntarily not using the Duke of York title.
28:16I mean, he wasn't being stripped of anything.
28:18He was just saying, I'm not going to use the title.
28:21But, crucially, he didn't say anything about the victims.
28:26Andrew said he would essentially dedicate his life to good works and to try and help victims of sex trafficking
28:33and domestic slavery.
28:35And, of course, we haven't seen that at all.
28:38How's that going?
28:38Exactly. And that is very problematic for me, because that was just a carapace, wasn't it?
28:45It was his lawyers who just, or whomever, at the expense of PRs.
28:49So, extraordinary lack of self-awareness, extraordinary lack of insight.
28:53He's going to have, I imagine, some stretches of time in front of him where he's going to eventually have
28:58to confront that stuff.
28:59Absolutely. And it's problematic in two main areas.
29:03One, it's problematic for the reputation of the royal family.
29:06I mean, the king didn't act decisively, in my opinion.
29:11But, at the end, he did draw a very firm line under it by de-princing him.
29:17It's internal exile.
29:19Yeah. I was going to say rusticated. He's been exiled in it. Rusticated.
29:23I know. I didn't even go to boarding school.
29:25He's been exiled in his own country.
29:27What I don't understand here, Emily, is why doesn't he just go to Abu Dhabi and play golf all day?
29:33Because he would find, I think, a home there, wouldn't he?
29:37Yeah.
29:37And he can just, you know, he would be out of the...
29:40Do you think that his desire to stay in the UK is partly that he does still want to respond
29:47to these allegations to restore his reputation?
29:50I do think he wants to see his family, his daughters and his grandchildren.
29:55Eugenie's got two young sons. Beatrice has got two young daughters.
29:59And, in fact, interestingly, this week, there were some new pictures published of Beatrice horse riding with her father and
30:08her elder daughter, Sienna.
30:10Sienna was on horseback. Beatrice was walking and her father was riding out in front.
30:15And that was some, that was very, to my mind, very staged royal choreography.
30:21Because there's been stories, there was a story a couple of weeks ago in the Mail on Sunday that Eugenie
30:26completely cut her family off, her parents off, the son of a bit of a, you know, a Brooklyn.
30:31She's the younger daughter, right?
30:32Yes. Eugenie's the younger one, the brunette. And the elder one, Beatrice, the redhead.
30:37She was kind of trying to tread a fine line between staying in with the royals, as in, you know,
30:45the king and Prince William, her cousin, but also sort of, you know, being there for her family.
30:52I think in reality, what I have been told is that Eugenie hasn't cut her parents off and that she
30:59has seen her father recently.
31:01But obviously it is tricky for both girls because they have got reputations to bolster and look after as well.
31:12And a commitment to charities that are particularly concerned with the victims of that kind of sexual predatory behavior.
31:17Well, Eugenie, Eugenie in 2017, set up the Anti-Slavery Collective.
31:22Do you think this is a seam that is going to be exhausted as far as the media is concerned?
31:27Or do you think this one is going to run and run and run?
31:29What do you think?
31:32I don't know. I think it's going to be very difficult to manage.
31:34I just, how do you, how do you solve a problem like Andrew Mountbatten-Winter? I don't know.
31:40So I, I've never met Andrew Richard. I've been on engagements with him. Have you, have you, I've observed him.
31:47Have you ever?
31:47I have. I was at Pitch at the Palace.
31:49Oh, were you?
31:50The whole Pitch at the Palace thing. Yeah, no, I was there. And I mean, I sort of said hello.
31:54So, and then he made a surprisingly good speech, actually. But this, of course, was before there were any allegations
32:00of this kind of misconduct around him.
32:02Although there was already a sense that his work as a trade envoy had not always been entirely in step
32:09with what the Foreign Office or various government departments wanted for him.
32:13If necessary, he could always run to mummy. And mummy would say, okay, infamously, that's what happened with the Newsnight
32:20interview.
32:21Emily Maitlis interviewed him in Buckingham Palace. And the Queen, and no one said, you cannot do this. A lot
32:27of courtes thought it was a very bad idea.
32:29But no one did, because he just said, oh, I've spoken to mummy. I mean, well, what can you say?
32:34Her son shines on you. But actually, in the wider court, in the wider family eyes of the world, you've
32:40not got a clearly defined role.
32:42Maybe that does kind of drive you bananas after a while.
32:45Well, I guess we've got Harry's words, haven't we? Harry's words as, you know, spare.
32:50I think the problem, and it will be, and it's a problem I know that William and Catherine really think
32:57about a lot for their three children.
32:58The institution is very set up for the next heir, in this case, George. But what about Charlotte and Louis?
33:10And those feelings of kind of, I mean, you know, Diana tried to raise both her sons equally.
33:14That was a very noble thought. But Harry and William were never equal and were never going to be equal.
33:21And there's a point, I guess, where they both realise it.
33:25Yeah.
33:26That, I mean, sibling relationships are difficult enough. But if one of them all of a sudden is told,
33:31your destiny is to sit on the throne and wear this crown.
33:34Yeah.
33:35And have this golden stick. And the other one thinks, what do I get?
33:38Well, not so much.
33:40You can ride a horse.
33:41Yeah.
33:41You can go visit Slough on a wet Wednesday.
33:45Well, we're going to have a break now. Don't forget, you can catch up with us,
33:47Catching Up with the Royals, every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts from,
33:51on YouTube and every Saturday on 5. But we're going to leave you with a question.
33:55And it's this.
33:581992. It's a terrible year. Three royal marriages burned down and so did Windsor Castle.
34:04And the Queen famously described it as being what? What was 1992 back after this?
34:15Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals. And the answer to the question we posed before
34:19the break, the Queen called it her Anus Horribilis. Dreadful year. How's this year going to look,
34:26do you think?
34:27Well, I hope it's going to be an Anus Mirabilis.
34:29That would be good, wouldn't it?
34:30That would be good.
34:31We could all use a bit of a miracle.
34:32We could all use a miracle. That's what you're here for, isn't it?
34:34Well, I mean, I feel even, I kind of feel a bit that it's kind of beyond my remit this
34:39one because it's such a tough one. But there are some remarkable things that could be happening.
34:43I mean, I'm thinking particular of the handling of the President of the United States.
34:48Careful.
34:49Yeah.
34:49Needs to be careful handling. Yes. Well, the King and Queen are scheduled to be visiting the States
34:56in April as part of the 250 anniversary celebration, commiseration, of American independence when
35:06they chucked all our tea in the river and said, oi you, you English people and your royal family,
35:12get lost.
35:13Other histories are available.
35:14Other histories are available.
35:17And so, yeah, it's rather bizarre, isn't it? That the King and Queen should be going to
35:21celebrate the fact that they were chucked out of the American colonies. But to go back
35:30to your point about Trump, he is in his second term as US President and he loves the British
35:37royal family. I mean, we saw that lavish second state visit and the banquet at Windsor Castle
35:44last autumn.
35:44The first state visit was pretty lavish too.
35:46I know. And he's, as he said, an unprecedented honor. I'm not going to do the accent. It's
35:51too cringe. The protocol is, Richard, is that if you get a first state visit, well, a first,
35:57there's only one. And even if you get a second term.
36:00They dial it down a bit.
36:01They dial it down. You come and have a cup of tea. So, but obviously we had to pull something
36:05out of our arsenal. And so we invited Trump for a second state visit. But the thing is,
36:10Trump is, I think, unpredictable would be one of the words we could use.
36:15And he shoots from the hip. But it's been quite tricky, I think, this proposed visit. The moment
36:23it's still going ahead. The recce has been, I think I mentioned earlier about how officials
36:27go and do sort of like a recce for tours or engagements. So they go and kind of run through,
36:33say, 100 engagements. They whittle those engagements down to maybe 20 or 30 that the royal
36:39will do. And it's problematic because, of course, the king is not just king of the UK.
36:47He's king of Canada. And Trump has said that he wants to annex Canada as the 51st state.
36:53So the more belligerent Trump gets towards Canada, the more difficult it is for the king of Canada
37:00to go and make nice. Absolutely. And I'm told by sources that Charles has not held back with his
37:07opinion. And I think that whilst obviously our royal family is kind of, you know, the ultimate
37:13Trump card, because I don't think any other country in the world can offer what we offer. I mean,
37:21there are other royal families are available, of course. But the British royal family is kind of
37:26preeminent in terms of kind of status and bling. And Trump's mother was a Scot. And Trump's mother
37:31was a Scot. So we do have that. But, you know, when Trump came out and made that statement about
37:40NATO and said that the European partners in NATO were like behind the line and we didn't fight
37:48effectively. I mean, that was deeply, deeply disrespectful. Prince Harry was one of the first
37:53to respond to it. And I thought that was really interesting because 457 people died in Afghanistan
38:00when we answered America's call after 9-11. And as Harry pointed out, and I thought it was very
38:07interesting that Harry even issued that statement. Because of course, had he still been a serving
38:13member of the royal family, he couldn't have said anything. Because that's a political statement
38:18against an elected president. And whatever you think about Trump, it is, you know, it is politics.
38:25And so the other thing that was very interesting is that the, it was let, it was let, it was
38:31let
38:31known or journalists found out that the king's opinion and displeasure was effectively communicated to
38:39Trump about the, what he said about NATO as well. Because within 24 hours of his comments,
38:48he'd spoken to our Prime Minister Keir Starmer. And he had then been told about the king's displeasure
38:56about what he had said.
38:58And the dilemma it put him into.
39:00Yeah, and the dilemma. And he completely climbed down. He came in sort of on his truth social,
39:04was suddenly saying that, you know, the UK was amazing, that our troops were fantastic, that we'd,
39:09you know, been very brave, etc, etc.
39:11It's interesting, isn't it, that with someone who is so powerful, and yet so volatile, and so
39:16unpredictable, what works? Stroking him.
39:19Stroking him.
39:20Stroking him.
39:20It's like Blofield's cat.
39:22And there's no stroker like the British Royal Family, is there? So this is an interesting,
39:27potentially powerful thing.
39:28Well, lovely stroking, if I may say so. But we've got a special thing now for everyone
39:33who's joining us.
39:34More stroking?
39:35Well, no, what we want to do is know your questions. What would you like to know?
39:38Email them to us, royals at spirit-studios.com, and we will put them in a box and produce them,
39:45and then we'll ask them, and we'll find out the answer to your question. Now, we haven't
39:48had time, it was our first one, so we've been asking around the office, and you've got the
39:51box.
39:52Okay. So, yeah, we'd love to hear from you. Even if you've just got some questions for
39:56Richard or I, it's royals at spirit-studios.com, and you could be in the box.
40:05So, I think Olivia in the office, we did a little bit of a, we did a bit of a
40:09whip round.
40:10So, let's see. Oh, hang on. Here we go. Here we go. It's a prop. I mean, what could possibly
40:16go wrong? I can't get the question out. Okay.
40:23It's like the Brits all the time.
40:24I know, it's like the Brits. Right. Okay. Here we go. Right. So, Olivia in the office wants
40:31to know, given all the drama we've had over the last year with Andrew and also Harry, I wanted to
40:37know, can the monarch remove someone from the line of succession? What do you think?
40:43Well, you know, the answer is always no, and then it turns out to be yes. But these have to
40:48be done.
40:48There's a thing called Let Us Patent, which I think the monarch can do on his or her initiative.
40:53Yeah.
40:53But there's also something that can only be done by statute and act of parliament.
40:57Normally, if something needs to be done, they'll find a way, right?
40:59You're absolutely right. It's always a yes and no answer. Technically, it's a no. The monarch
41:05can't remove anyone from the line of succession, because that has to be an act of parliament.
41:12But the monarch can change things without, as you say, a Let Us Patent. The last example of which
41:19was when Catherine was pregnant with, as we now know, Prince George. And the late Queen issued
41:28a Let Us Patent to say that regardless of the baby's gender, he or she would keep their line
41:37in succession. Because before George's birth, had George been a girl, and then a boy been born as
41:44Kate Williams number two, that boy would have leapfrogged the girl in terms of being heir.
41:50Yeah. Male primogeniture. Male primogeniture. Exactly. And I think there was also a Let Us Patent
41:55about, there was a law, which, as we know, because of Henry VIII and the accession from
42:02the church in Rome in the 16th century, in the 15th century, Emily.
42:0816th century. In the 16th century. In the 16th century. Oh, thanks, Richard. What would I do
42:12without you? In the 16th century, Catholics were banned from marrying into the royal family.
42:21And I think you're not allowed to be Catholic and be obviously head of the Church of England. But
42:26the Let Us Patent was changed so that you can be Catholic and marry into the royal family. There
42:33are examples of people previously having to convert to Church of England. Well, Richard,
42:38I have to say, I've had such fun with you today. It's been a revelation.
42:45Well, it's been a pleasure as well.
42:47Oh, thanks. Shall we do it all again next Thursday?
42:51I think so. Same time, same place.
42:53Same time, same place. Now, don't forget, you can always catch up with Catching Up With
42:59the Royals on YouTube every Thursday and everywhere else you get your podcasts. You can watch it on
43:04five on a Saturday. And we are on Facebook and Instagram. Just search Catching Up With the Royals
43:12and give us a follow. We would love to hear your comments.
43:16Yes, I'd like to second that in every respect. Go to the internet, people, and press all your buttons.
43:23Press the buttons! Can you press my buttons, Richard?
43:31Well, that's all from the programme that never complains, but always explains. See you next time.
43:39See you next time. Bye.
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