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The Daily Show - Season 31 - Episode 51: Jodi Kantor
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00:03From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central,
00:08it's America's only source for news.
00:10This is The Daily Show with your host, Jon Stewart.
00:25Hey, everybody, let's go!
00:31Let's go!
00:33Let's go!
00:36Welcome to The Daily Show.
00:37My name is Jon Stewart.
00:39We got an unbelievable show for you tonight.
00:43It's why I like doing the Monday shows,
00:46because all the news accumulates over the week.
00:53Somebody in the audience asked me,
00:56why do you do the Monday shows?
00:57I go, I don't know.
00:58And she goes, is it because somebody behind her goes,
01:00oh, it's because the news accumulates over the weekend.
01:03And I go, yeah, that's it.
01:05Later on tonight, we'll also be joined by author and journalist Jody Cantor
01:08from the failing New York Times.
01:14There's actually written an article about the failing Supreme Court.
01:17But first, let's begin, obviously, with the big news.
01:26The White House Correspondents' dinner.
01:29It was supposed to be an evening of fun and merriment
01:33until, like most things in America, it was interrupted by gunfire.
01:39This is why we can't have nice things.
01:44And to be perfectly frank, it's not even a nice thing.
01:49Nobody wanted this f***ing dinner in the first...
01:53Nobody needed...
01:54We're so f***ed in this country right now.
01:59We can't even pull off a dinner
02:01that shouldn't have existed in the first place.
02:06Hey, let's celebrate the First Amendment
02:08with an administration that's doing everything it can do to destroy it.
02:13Sounds great.
02:15Should we hold the dinner in a secure location?
02:20Well, we could.
02:23Or, you know what?
02:24Why not just the Hilton?
02:28Let's just...
02:29You know what?
02:29Let's not hold it in a secure location.
02:32Let's go to the Hilton.
02:34You know the Hilton slogan?
02:36More hard to defend entry points than rooms.
02:45Why do you do it at...
02:46And now, fortunately,
02:48and amazingly,
02:49no fatalities.
02:50Nobody was really hurt.
02:52But make no mistake,
02:53in crisis situations like this,
02:56people tend to show you who they really are.
02:58And who the elite
02:59of Washington, D.C. are
03:03is...
03:08Like this influencer
03:09whose caption says,
03:11Shoot her at the White House correspondent dinner!
03:15But whose duck face says,
03:20Coachella!
03:32We're all gonna die, Gucci!
03:36Are these hard-nosed Washington insiders
03:39who made sure in a life-or-diss situation
03:42to grab the things most dear to them,
03:44the bottle service?
03:49What?
03:53If only...
03:55If only I had more time,
03:57I could have saved the rosé.
04:04And then, of course,
04:06there was this guy!
04:07Check this video out.
04:08The left side of your screen,
04:09this man,
04:10creative artist,
04:10agent,
04:11super agent,
04:12Michael Glantz,
04:13has gone viral
04:13for eating food
04:15casually
04:16as people are crouched down
04:18after this shooting
04:19at the White House
04:19Correspondents' Dinner.
04:26Uh...
04:27Excuse me.
04:28Excuse me, waiter.
04:31When you're done
04:34incapacitating
04:35the assassin,
04:37uh,
04:38I would love
04:38some more ranch dressing.
04:43I'd be a doll
04:44if you could,
04:44a refill.
04:45Some lady took my wine.
04:48If you could.
04:58There have been times
04:59when I have
05:01been very worried
05:02about artificial intelligence
05:03and whether or not
05:05it's going to replace us.
05:07And then there are
05:08other times
05:09where I think,
05:10hey, AI,
05:11can you start Monday?
05:16I mean...
05:18But I gotta tell you,
05:19nobody revealed
05:19their true colors
05:20more than
05:20the Trump administration.
05:21From J.D. Vance's
05:23Dancing with the Stars
05:25quick-step exit
05:26to Pete Hegseth
05:28dropping a smoldering
05:29blue steel.
05:30Hello.
05:32To RFK Jr.
05:34being whisked away
05:35by a Secret Service hive
05:37who apparently
05:38couldn't spare
05:40one worker bee
05:41for, I don't know,
05:42his wife!
05:46Do you see it?
05:48Do you see right there?
05:49There's a group of men
05:52carrying another man
05:53out of the room
05:54and then there's a woman.
05:56A woman who appears to be,
05:58I'm not a...
06:00desperately reaching out
06:04for someone
06:06to care
06:08to help her.
06:12That's...
06:14The woman reaching up
06:15in agony and fear.
06:18That's RFK Jr.'s wife.
06:21Bobby!
06:24Bobby!
06:31And by the way,
06:33by the way,
06:35if there's one guy
06:37in that entire room
06:39who seems like
06:40they would be impervious
06:41to physical damage,
06:44it's f***ing RFK Jr.
06:47Look at this guy.
06:48He literally looks like
06:50a guy who is trapped
06:51between being Bruce Banner
06:54and the Hulk.
06:58He's in the...
06:59He's in the middle.
07:00He can't go either way.
07:04It's like...
07:05It's like the gamma radiation
07:07just stabilized
07:08in the middle
07:09of the transformation.
07:13Now I'm just uncomfortable.
07:19How f***ed up is that scene?
07:21How f***ed up is that scene?
07:23May I show you the tape again?
07:24I want to show you something.
07:25Pay attention to the foreground.
07:27Something's about to happen.
07:28I want to show it to you.
07:29Hold on.
07:29It's not there.
07:29They're whisking RFK out.
07:30His wife...
07:31Freeze!
07:31Freeze!
07:31Freeze!
07:32Okay.
07:33The guy right there
07:35shielding the pregnant woman
07:37from danger?
07:38That's Stephen Miller
07:40and his wife.
07:42Stephen Miller
07:44carefully protecting
07:46his wife.
07:51See?
07:52RFK?
07:53Turned out
07:53that's an option.
07:56You can protect your wife
07:59instead of,
08:00I don't know,
08:01beating her
08:02to the escape pod.
08:05And the guy
08:06who outshined you
08:07is Stephen
08:09f***ing
08:10Miller.
08:11That's who
08:12outshined you.
08:14That's
08:14who was more
08:15chivalrous.
08:18Stephen
08:19Miller.
08:20A guy
08:20who probably
08:21jerks off
08:22to the new
08:22Faces of Death movie.
08:24That's...
08:26And now
08:26for the rest
08:27of your wife...
08:27for the rest
08:28of your life,
08:28your wife
08:29is gonna ask you
08:29a question
08:30no one's ever
08:30asked before.
08:31Ever.
08:32Why can't you
08:33be more like
08:34Stephen Miller?
08:35Why?
08:37Why can't you
08:38be more...
08:40But no.
08:42There goes
08:43RFK.
08:44Just leaving it.
08:45Looks like
08:45we got
08:46a new addition
08:47to the
08:47Kennedy family
08:48abandoning women
08:50to their fate
08:50Wikipedia page.
08:52Oh,
08:52I'm sorry.
08:54I'm sorry.
08:56Too soon?
08:57Or...
08:58Or too many?
09:01You know what?
09:02And here's
09:03the other thing.
09:07I don't want
09:08any more
09:09of your
09:09punch the monkey
09:10nonsense either.
09:12I have had it.
09:19Seriously,
09:20I'm not wrong.
09:21Look it up.
09:24F***.
09:27Now,
09:27obviously not
09:28everybody left
09:28their lady behind.
09:29Some went
09:30to look
09:30for their
09:31lady
09:31and still
09:32got bad
09:32news.
09:33The New York
09:33Times writes,
09:35the FBI
09:35director
09:35Kash Patel
09:36came tearing
09:37across the
09:37hallway
09:38with two
09:38men in
09:39tow.
09:39His
09:39girlfriend
09:39was hiding
09:40in a room
09:40with another
09:41man
09:41who was
09:42holding
09:42her
09:42hand.
09:52Did you
09:52have to
09:53add that?
09:55Was that
09:56a necessary
09:56detail
09:57to add
09:58to the
09:59story?
09:59Kash Patel's
10:00girlfriend,
10:01I was
10:02in a room,
10:02a man
10:03gently
10:04caressing
10:04her arm,
10:06the man's
10:06muscular chest
10:07teeming
10:09with anticipation
10:10as he
10:11bellowed,
10:11I'll protect
10:12you,
10:13Kash Patel's
10:13girlfriend.
10:20You know
10:20the person
10:21I felt
10:21the most
10:21sorry for
10:22honestly
10:22the whole
10:22night?
10:23Probably
10:23the featured
10:23performer
10:24of the
10:24evening.
10:25Mentalist
10:25Ose
10:26Perlman.
10:26He was
10:27a mentalist.
10:27He was
10:28going to
10:28perform.
10:29It's probably
10:30the biggest
10:30opportunity
10:31for visibility
10:32that the
10:33mentalist
10:33community
10:35has ever
10:36had.
10:36And then
10:37in the
10:37middle of
10:38it,
10:38pow,
10:38pow,
10:38pow,
10:39the whole
10:39thing
10:39goes.
10:40Caroline
10:40Levitt,
10:40the press
10:40secretary,
10:41challenged me,
10:42said,
10:42I'm having
10:43a baby
10:43next week,
10:44and she
10:45goes,
10:45can you
10:45guess what
10:46I'm
10:46naming my
10:46daughter?
10:47And I
10:47was guessing
10:48letter by
10:48letter how
10:49many letters
10:49were in
10:49the name.
10:52Is there
10:52anything more
10:53compelling?
10:56than a
10:57mentalist
10:57or magician
10:59just describing
11:00to you
11:01verbally a
11:02trick that
11:03he would
11:03have done
11:05that if you
11:05had been
11:06there,
11:07would have
11:07been cool.
11:10I'm sorry,
11:11I interrupted.
11:12And then I,
11:12right at the
11:13moment where you
11:13see it happen,
11:14I wrote down
11:15the name,
11:16and I said,
11:17how did I do?
11:18And I turned
11:18around,
11:18and that's when
11:19you see the
11:19first lady
11:20go,
11:21Yeah,
11:21that's right,
11:22that's when
11:22the shooting
11:23happened.
11:26That gasp
11:27wasn't,
11:28he nailed it,
11:28it was,
11:29that was
11:30gunfire!
11:31And by the
11:32way,
11:34the shooting
11:34happened just
11:35as the
11:35mentalist was
11:36revealing the
11:36name of
11:37Carolyn Levitt's
11:38unborn child,
11:39which,
11:39as amazing
11:40as that
11:41might have
11:41been,
11:42one would
11:42have thought
11:43that a
11:44more timely
11:46revelation
11:47would have
11:48been to
11:48write something
11:49on the
11:49card like,
11:51everybody
11:52run.
11:56There's,
11:56just,
11:57hold on,
11:59I'm gonna,
12:02okay,
12:03I'm gonna
12:04show you
12:04something,
12:05it's gonna
12:05blow your
12:06mind,
12:06everybody
12:07run!
12:11But perhaps
12:12nobody's
12:12character was
12:13revealed as
12:13much as our
12:14brave president,
12:14Donald
12:15Jehasa
12:15Pfeffer
12:15Trump,
12:15who sat
12:16down with
12:17Nora O'Donnell
12:18the next day
12:19to explain
12:19that fear
12:20was definitely
12:20not the
12:21emotion he
12:21was feeling.
12:22I wasn't
12:23worried.
12:24I could
12:24see what
12:24was going
12:25on at
12:25the door.
12:26I also
12:27saw a
12:27lot of
12:28very
12:28strong,
12:30physically
12:31strong,
12:33really
12:33attractive
12:34law
12:34enforcement
12:35people
12:36come
12:36through
12:36those
12:36doors.
12:45does,
12:46does that
12:47matter?
12:49Is that
12:50part of
12:50how we
12:50try,
12:51look,
12:51I don't
12:52want my
12:52life saved
12:53by a
12:53six.
13:00I don't
13:00want some
13:01pig face
13:02walking.
13:02We got
13:03to go,
13:04Mr.
13:04President,
13:05not with
13:05you,
13:05friend.
13:08Not
13:09happening.
13:12But how
13:13did it feel?
13:13You surrounded
13:14by really
13:15attractive law
13:16enforcement.
13:16And frankly,
13:17it made me
13:18feel very
13:18safe.
13:21Yeah,
13:22I'm not
13:22sure safe
13:22was the
13:23emotion.
13:25Yeah,
13:26I saw
13:26them come
13:27in and I
13:27felt myself
13:28get safe
13:29as a
13:29rock.
13:33They
13:33were so
13:34attractive.
13:36Safe
13:36as a
13:37rock.
13:37That's
13:38why I
13:38didn't
13:38stand up
13:39to run.
13:42Took a
13:43moment to
13:43think about
13:44baseball.
13:51But Trump
13:52wasn't only
13:52impressed with
13:53the officers'
13:53good looks
13:53or their
13:54asses being
13:54so taut
13:55that any
13:55shooter's
13:56bullets would
13:56have just
13:56bounced right
13:57off.
13:59He was also
13:59impressed with
14:00their skill.
14:01They drew
14:01those guns
14:02so fast,
14:02looked like
14:03they looked
14:03like Matt
14:04Dillon.
14:10Now,
14:13I know
14:14what you're
14:15thinking.
14:21Matt
14:21Dillon?
14:24Is
14:24Donald Trump
14:25so old he's
14:26confusing the
14:27guy from
14:27Something About
14:28Mary with
14:29Matt Damon
14:30from the
14:31Bourne movies?
14:32But it's not
14:33true.
14:34Trump is
14:35actually so
14:35old he's
14:36not confused
14:36at all.
14:37He's
14:38referencing
14:38Marshall
14:39Matt
14:40Dillon from
14:41the Gunsmoke
14:42TV show.
14:45A show
14:46that I'm
14:48too young
14:48to have
14:49watched.
14:50Yeah.
14:52This.
14:52Look at this.
14:53Are you
14:53seeing this?
14:55I'm too
14:55young to
14:56know that
14:57show.
14:59Now,
14:59by the way,
15:00you may have
15:00noticed Trump's
15:01demeanor very
15:01conciliatory and
15:02pleasant towards
15:03the reporter.
15:04Perhaps this is
15:05the new Trump.
15:05I don't know if
15:06I could ever be
15:07as rough as I
15:09was going to be
15:09tonight.
15:09I was going to
15:10really rip it
15:11last night.
15:12I was talking
15:12about everybody.
15:13And then I
15:14said, well,
15:15my speech is
15:16going to be
15:16much different.
15:17It'll be a
15:17speech of love.
15:19Love.
15:22His perspective
15:23has completely
15:23changed.
15:26Until.
15:28See if you
15:29can spot the
15:29moment in the
15:30Nora O'Donnell
15:31interview where
15:33Trump decides,
15:34nah,
15:35that.
15:36The so-called
15:37manifesto is a
15:38stunning thing to
15:39read, Mr.
15:39President.
15:40He appears to
15:41reference a motive
15:43in it.
15:44He writes this
15:44quote,
15:45administration
15:45officials, they
15:47are targets.
15:48And he also
15:49wrote this,
15:49I'm no longer
15:50willing to permit
15:51a pedophile,
15:52rapist, and
15:53traitor to coat
15:54my hands with
15:55his crimes.
16:00Did you catch
16:01it?
16:03He does one
16:04of those
16:04Jim from the
16:05office camera
16:06takes.
16:16God, I'm
16:17not, yeah,
16:18that's, yeah.
16:22Remember that
16:23nice thing?
16:24Yeah, no.
16:25Now, to be fair
16:26to Trump, why
16:27would you read
16:27out loud the
16:29would-be assassin's
16:30political take?
16:31I think once
16:32you go vigilante,
16:33you forfeit the
16:34platform.
16:34I'm sorry.
16:36But she got the
16:37soundbite she was
16:38looking for.
16:39Well, I was
16:39waiting for you to
16:40read that because I
16:41knew you would,
16:42because you're,
16:42you're horrible,
16:44people, horrible
16:45people.
16:45Yeah, he did write
16:46that.
16:47I'm not a rapist.
16:49I didn't rape
16:49anybody.
16:51I'm not a pedophile.
16:52Do you think he was
16:52referring to you?
16:53Excuse me.
16:53Excuse me.
16:56Excuse me.
17:04Oh, Lord.
17:09I mean, I was just
17:10reading you the
17:11assassin manifesto.
17:13I had no idea
17:15you would think
17:15he was referring to you.
17:18Lord have mercy.
17:22But you know what?
17:23Maybe this is a moment
17:25where Trump will rise up.
17:26These events clearly
17:27point out that we have
17:27a problem in this
17:28country at the nexus
17:29of mental health and
17:30the availability of
17:31powerful weapons.
17:32And maybe, just maybe,
17:33this sobering night will
17:34spur a movement for
17:36some solutions.
17:37We looked at all of
17:39the conditions that
17:40took place tonight,
17:41and I didn't want to
17:43say this.
17:45I know what he's
17:46going to say.
17:46We need to put a
17:47shit ton of money
17:47towards mental health
17:48and getting illegal
17:49weapons off the street.
17:50That's what he's
17:51going to say.
17:51Or, I'm no mentalist.
17:54Did you have...
17:55Did you have something
17:57else in mind?
17:58It's actually a larger
17:59room, and it's much
18:00more secure.
18:01It's got...
18:02It's drone-proof.
18:03It's bulletproof glass.
18:04We need the ballroom.
18:07Yeah, that's a great
18:08solution, uh, to gun
18:11violence, um, for you.
18:14What about the un-ballroomed
18:17rest of us?
18:18Malls, churches, schools,
18:21synagogue, wherever.
18:23Not every town can have a
18:25ballroom.
18:26Didn't you even see
18:27Footloose?
18:31A ballroom?
18:32That's the solution?
18:33That is the dumbest
18:34f***ing idea I have
18:36ever heard.
18:37No one is going to
18:38go along with that.
18:39The ballroom will be,
18:41uh, a solution for this.
18:42I think we've got to
18:43build that ballroom as
18:44soon as possible.
18:45The ballroom makes,
18:45makes total sense.
18:47A ballroom is imperative
18:49for a lot of reasons.
18:50The president needs
18:51the ballroom.
18:55Let's build a ballroom
18:57and just all dance
18:59like no one's shooting.
19:06The fact, that was my
19:07jazz hands, by the way.
19:08That was, that's, that's
19:10as far as my hands go jazz.
19:13But back to the dinner
19:14itself.
19:14The incident happened
19:15in a room full of
19:16journalists, and there was
19:16one fact the media could
19:18report on with certainty.
19:21They're heroes.
19:22You really saw the best
19:23of the entire D.C.
19:25press corps on display.
19:26Journalists who
19:27immediately sprung into
19:28action to cover this
19:30historic moment.
19:31Credit to the journalists,
19:31by the way, who continue
19:32to do their jobs in that
19:33room.
19:34Thank goodness for all of
19:35us trying to do our
19:36jobs.
19:36The journalistic heroes
19:37of the evening.
19:42You know, we should have
19:43an awards dinner just for
19:44us.
19:46You know, it's a great
19:47place to do it.
19:48The Helltale.
19:52But, as always, one hero
19:55rose above them all.
19:57Can we just give Wolf Blitzer
19:59some praise and some credit?
20:01And of course, you, Wolf,
20:02saw it closer up than anybody
20:03else, and we're so glad you're
20:05okay, and you did the
20:05extraordinary journalism that
20:07you're known for.
20:08Wolf, you are an
20:09international treasure.
20:10Wolf, you were the first to
20:11tell the world what actually
20:12had happened.
20:12I have to say, we are lucky
20:14that we have a reporter like
20:15you who happened to bear
20:17witness.
20:17You have some people who are
20:19legends for a reason.
20:21Wolf Blitzer is one of those
20:22people.
20:28Did Wolf Blitzer die on
20:29Saturday?
20:36Yes, undoubtedly, the MVP of
20:38the news-turbation that was
20:40this weekend was CNN's Wolf
20:41Blitzer.
20:42All right, Wolf, walk us
20:43through the attack.
20:44We had just finished the
20:45first chorus, which was a
20:46delicious salad, the
20:48president was up there, but
20:50after the first chorus, which
20:52was a good salad.
20:53We had just finished
20:54appetizers.
21:00This is dangerously blurring
21:02the line between reporter
21:04and old man at event.
21:09We were the salad was
21:11delicious.
21:13I'm sorry, what were you
21:14asking?
21:15I'm sorry.
21:19Wolf, we're trying to stay
21:21away from the food stuff.
21:22Let's get back to the more
21:23salient details.
21:25And I walked away to go
21:27out to the men's room.
21:28I was going to go to the
21:29men's room, which you had
21:30to go up one level of
21:31stairs.
21:32The men's room was outside
21:33the ballroom.
21:34You had to go up one
21:35flight of stairs to get
21:37there.
21:38It's a good men's room.
21:39It's a...
21:41It's a spacious men's
21:43room.
21:43The urinals are fine.
21:45It could use a grab bar, if
21:47we're being honest.
21:48I like the men's room where
21:50each sink has its own soap
21:52dispenser.
21:52You get the one where
21:54everybody has to go as
21:56they're leaving.
21:57It's a bottleneck.
21:59It creates a...
22:01Come on, Blitzer!
22:03What happened?
22:04As I'm leaving the men's room
22:05to come back to the ballroom,
22:07all of a sudden, to my left,
22:09I hear gunshots.
22:11Boom!
22:12Boom!
22:12The next thing I knew, a police
22:14officer pushed me to the ground.
22:17There we go.
22:18That's what I'm...
22:18Now we're in the shit.
22:20That's what I'm talking about.
22:21All right, what happened next?
22:23One of my shoes came off,
22:24and it took me a while to find
22:26that shoe later.
22:26One of my shoes fell off,
22:28and now I have that shoe back.
22:30I was walking around for a while
22:31without a shoe.
22:32Oh, my gosh.
22:32It was just a sock.
22:34But you got it back.
22:34You were doing...
22:35Were you doing live shots
22:36with just one shoe?
22:36I was doing live shots
22:37with one shoe.
22:38Wow.
22:39No!
22:42Focus!
22:42Don't go...
22:43Fight it, old man!
22:46Fight it!
22:47But yeah, every journalist
22:49on the scene last night
22:50was a bona fide hero.
22:51And by the way,
22:52I'm including The Daily Show
22:53in that,
22:53and our own intrepid reporter
22:55that we actually sent
22:57to that dinner.
22:59Triumph the insult comic dog
23:01who is on the red carpet
23:02for the White House
23:03Correspondents' Dinner.
23:04Trying to get interviews
23:05along with the rest of the press.
23:06Can't miss Triumph the insult
23:08comic dog.
23:09Trying to...
23:11Cracking some jokes,
23:12no doubt,
23:12at Secretary Rubio.
23:14Why is Triumph here?
23:15I am covering
23:17the red carpet.
23:18And I don't mean
23:19Jen Psaki.
23:28To talk more
23:29about his experience,
23:31please welcome
23:31our own intrepid reporter,
23:33Triumph the insult comic dog.
23:37Thank you very much.
23:38Thank you very much.
23:40Look at that.
23:41Look at that.
23:43Thank you so much.
23:44Nice to see you.
23:46Oh, yes.
23:47So, so, so, Triumph.
23:49Yes, John.
23:50How do you feel
23:51after being
23:53at this dinner
23:54on Saturday?
23:55Well, you know,
23:56John,
23:56I'm not the person
23:57who likes to throw
23:58around the word hero.
24:01But after Saturday,
24:02I can't help
24:03not only throw it around,
24:05but put it on the metal
24:06and have it printed
24:07at staples.
24:10It's, it's,
24:11it's quite impressive.
24:12That's 100% golden rod, John.
24:13No, I can see that.
24:14Take a look.
24:15Look at that.
24:15Triumph, I, look,
24:16I understand.
24:17It was a traumatic evening.
24:18Yes.
24:19But you gotta admit,
24:20hero is a little bit much,
24:22yes?
24:22Oh, so what?
24:24Wolf Blitzer's a hero?
24:25Oh, he reported
24:27without one shoe.
24:30Seriously, man,
24:31I'm out there
24:32with my balls
24:33hanging out.
24:36Were you worried about,
24:37to be honest,
24:38getting killed?
24:39Yes, but mostly
24:40because I didn't want
24:41RFK Jr.
24:42to eat my carcass.
24:45It's not the way
24:46you want to go, John.
24:47It's not the way
24:48you want to go.
24:50But you know,
24:52Triumph,
24:52I have to tell you,
24:53the larger issue
24:55that we continue,
24:58the larger issue
24:59we continue to have
25:00is gun violence
25:01and no effort
25:02to pass legislation
25:04to stop it.
25:05John, John, John, John,
25:06John, please,
25:08don't do this.
25:08Don't politicize
25:10a political event.
25:11I'm not, it's not,
25:12I'm not politicizing it, Triumph.
25:14It is a fact.
25:15It is a fact
25:15that in America,
25:17another event
25:18is ruined
25:19by gun violence
25:20and we're lucky this time.
25:21No, I'm gonna keep talking.
25:24It's, no, I'm not,
25:26I'm not,
25:27I'm not,
25:28I'm not.
25:30I, John,
25:33now is not the time.
25:35Now is not the time.
25:38Can I ask you a question?
25:39Did you wipe your feet
25:40when you came in?
25:43I used the same bathroom
25:44as Wolf Blitzer.
25:49Triumph, clearly,
25:50you're still,
25:50you're still traumatized.
25:51Yes.
25:52I went through so much.
25:54Yes.
25:54I contacted HR
25:55and told them
25:57I'm going to need
25:57an emotional support dog.
25:59Yes.
26:01Preferably a poodle
26:02who's into butt stuff.
26:05You know,
26:05a lot of people
26:06bring up the fact
26:07that we do also
26:08have a hate speech problem
26:09in this country.
26:10Do you think it's time
26:11we all take a look
26:12in the mirror?
26:13You know,
26:13there is talk about
26:14how we have to
26:15take the temperature down
26:16and then we have to,
26:17yes,
26:18yes,
26:18shh,
26:19shh,
26:20shh,
26:20shh.
26:21I have like five more jokes
26:22to get through.
26:23Okay.
26:25Then you can talk
26:26about temperature.
26:27All right.
26:27What else do you have?
26:29As I was saying,
26:30John,
26:31it was traumatic.
26:33I know.
26:34Everything is still
26:35so fresh.
26:36All these sounds
26:37are still in my ears.
26:39The firing of the bullets,
26:41the commands
26:41of the Secret Service,
26:43the satisfied moans
26:44of Kash Patel's girlfriend
26:46coming from the closet.
26:49Well,
26:50thank you so much, Triumph.
26:51We'll have your full report
26:52on the show tomorrow.
26:53Thank you so much.
26:54You're really disgusting.
26:55No, that's not true.
26:56You've aged horribly.
26:57You look jewier than ever.
26:58No, that's not true.
26:59It's so sad.
27:00It's really awful.
27:01No, when we come back,
27:02Jody Cantor will be joining me
27:03in the studio.
27:04Don't,
27:05don't go away.
27:06Don't go away.
27:07Don't go away.
27:07I thought the hell.
27:23Ladies and gentlemen,
27:24welcome back to the show.
27:25My guest tonight
27:26is a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter.
27:30She's currently covering
27:31the Supreme Court
27:32for the New York Times.
27:33Her latest book is called
27:34How to Start Discovering
27:35Your Life's Work.
27:36Please welcome to the program
27:36Jody Cantor.
27:54Thank you so much
27:55for being here.
27:57I've been an admirer
27:58of your reporting
27:59for a very long time.
28:02Your latest reporting,
28:04Supreme Court,
28:05which is one of the more opaque,
28:07I think,
28:09that we have in our government.
28:13Some documents were leaked
28:14to you about the Supreme Court?
28:17Talk to us about
28:18what this article is.
28:19So about a week ago,
28:21Adam Liptak and I put
28:23in the pages of the New York Times
28:2516 pages of internal documents
28:29from the court,
28:30private correspondence
28:32among the justices
28:33that we were not going to see
28:35for generations
28:36that show the origins
28:38of something called
28:39the shadow docket.
28:40Yes.
28:41Which is a new way
28:42that the court
28:43has been doing business
28:44for about the past 10 years.
28:47And so the reason
28:48we were eager to do this
28:50is because this is a way
28:52of listening to the justices
28:54as they talk in private.
28:56These are them emailing.
28:59Well, there's...
29:00There are memos
29:01that are being shared.
29:02There are clerks
29:03that are the ones...
29:03They don't Snapchat.
29:04They don't...
29:06It makes sense.
29:08But the point is
29:09that we can see
29:10the exercise of power
29:12in these memos,
29:13and we can also see
29:15the justices
29:17disregarding centuries
29:18of time-tested legal decisions,
29:21a legal decision-making process
29:23about being very deliberate
29:25and doing things slowly.
29:26And in these five days of memos,
29:29they both halt
29:31President Obama's climate change initiative.
29:33Yes.
29:34These memos are from 2016.
29:35These are from 2016.
29:36So they're stopping Obama's plan.
29:39Turns out later,
29:40we see this is like
29:41the beginning of the end
29:43of federal attempts
29:44to regulate greenhouse gas emissions.
29:46Yes.
29:47But also,
29:48they're doing this thing, like,
29:51really, like, very quickly
29:53and without a lot of deliberation
29:56that is going to turn into a break
29:59with the way the court does business.
30:02Right.
30:02And this is the origins
30:04of the system we see today.
30:05That new system.
30:06where, like, for example,
30:07if you look at
30:09how this court
30:10has treated President Trump,
30:12they've awarded him
30:13a lot of power.
30:14Sure.
30:15They've done...
30:15Virtual immunity
30:16from any kind of...
30:17The immunity decision
30:18was a merits case.
30:20That was a regular,
30:21slow, played-out case.
30:22Had to write it out.
30:23Yes.
30:24On this emergency track,
30:27they have awarded
30:28President Trump
30:30a ton of power
30:31without explaining
30:33themselves
30:34to the public
30:35very often.
30:36Why do you shadow docket?
30:36Because I think that's interesting.
30:37Okay.
30:37We're accustomed to
30:39the decisions
30:40that are made.
30:41There's a dissenting opinion.
30:42There's a lot of coursework...
30:44Law work that is cited.
30:46Precedents and things like that.
30:47How does the shadow docket
30:49differ from the other docket?
30:53I don't know the terminology.
30:54The merits docket.
30:56The merits docket!
30:57Okay, so, like,
30:57let's call those
30:58regular Supreme Court cases.
31:01Yes!
31:01They play out
31:01over a very long time.
31:03There are oral arguments
31:05where things are discussed
31:06in detail.
31:08Best kind of argument.
31:09The justices meet in person.
31:11They have these secret meetings
31:12called conference meetings.
31:14They sit around a special table.
31:15They sit in special chairs.
31:17Do they really?
31:17They do.
31:18They discuss the cases
31:20in person.
31:21They vote.
31:22They do many drafts
31:24of their opinions.
31:26They go back and forth.
31:28They change things.
31:29They're deliberative.
31:30They're deliberative.
31:32What is the shadow done?
31:33But I want to give you
31:34what is probably
31:35the most important part.
31:37They write opinions.
31:38And here's why
31:39opinions are important.
31:41If we're talking about
31:42our elected officials,
31:43they're accountable to us
31:45through elections, right?
31:46If we don't like
31:47what they're doing,
31:48they're removed.
31:50These justices
31:51are appointed for life.
31:52There are no traditional forms
31:54of accountability
31:55save impeachment.
31:56The act of writing an opinion
31:59is the act of accountability.
32:01It's a judge or a justice
32:03saying, listen,
32:04you may disagree
32:06with my opinion.
32:07My opinion may put
32:08your brother in jail
32:09or it may cause
32:10your business to close.
32:12But I want to show you
32:13that I've been fair
32:15and I've been diligent.
32:16They show their work.
32:17And I'm just applying the law.
32:19So that is a judge
32:20or justice's explanation
32:22to the public
32:23that over time
32:25has earned
32:26the court's trust.
32:29In a lot of
32:30shadow docket decisions,
32:33there's like,
32:34there's almost no opinion.
32:35It's like a paragraph.
32:37Like on this 2016 case...
32:38Like just a post-it?
32:39Like, yeah,
32:40that's not going to fly.
32:40It is pretty much
32:41a judicial post-it.
32:42And it has instructions
32:45that are kind of
32:46legal boilerplate,
32:47but it has no reasoning.
32:49And reasoning
32:50is the essence of the law.
32:51And is this something
32:53that is not...
32:53When did the shadow docket
32:56appear and couldn't they think
32:58of calling it something
32:59less sinister
33:00than the shadow docket?
33:01Well, there's like
33:02a whole debate
33:02about what it should be named.
33:04So the shadow docket
33:05emerged slowly over time
33:07and it definitely existed
33:08before this 2016 case.
33:10Okay.
33:11But it was used
33:12in a more narrow way.
33:13It was used mostly
33:14for death penalty cases,
33:16election cases...
33:17Like a state...
33:17A literal emergency.
33:18A literal emergency.
33:20Okay.
33:20And so what we're seeing
33:21and we're seeing
33:22an expansion
33:23of the shadow docket
33:25and the reason why
33:26this case was
33:27an inflection point
33:28is because the D.C. Circuit,
33:31which as you know
33:31is like a very big deal court...
33:34Oh, sure.
33:34I love their shit.
33:38...was supposed
33:39to hear the case.
33:40Yeah.
33:41And instead,
33:42the Supreme Court
33:42jumped in front of them
33:44and made this ruling
33:47when no other court
33:48had weighed in.
33:50The way it usually works
33:51is that the Supreme Court
33:52comes at the end
33:53of the process.
33:54But don't they have to be...
33:56Someone has to have standing
33:57and has to petition them.
33:59They can't just jump in
34:00and be like,
34:00shadow docket.
34:01There was...
34:03The applications came,
34:06but what's interesting,
34:07and like,
34:08I would really urge
34:09everybody to go online
34:10and read these memos
34:12and also Adam and I
34:14annotated them to...
34:15Like, they're not
34:16really written in English.
34:17They're written in like
34:18a kind of legal Latin.
34:19Yeah, yeah.
34:19So we did some translation
34:21for you to be able to see.
34:22Robert's in the memos,
34:23if I may.
34:24Seems like a little bit
34:25of a catty bitch.
34:26Well,
34:28what I would say
34:29is that the Chief Justice
34:31was in a real rush.
34:32Like, this was fast.
34:35Like, it...
34:36But he seemed offended
34:37by certain things.
34:38Well, he was in
34:39a power struggle
34:40with the Obama administration,
34:42which he feels
34:44had sidelined the court
34:46on a previous EPA decision.
34:48So you are seeing, like,
34:51you're seeing the Chief Justice
34:53be very dismissive
34:54of colleagues' procedural objections
34:56because the Democratic
34:57appointed justices are like,
34:59this is...
35:00You can't do this.
35:00This is weird.
35:01Like, we've never done this before.
35:03Like, why would you do this?
35:04Like, I have serious concerns
35:05about this.
35:06And he...
35:08He says,
35:09we have to go ahead.
35:11This is urgent.
35:12We have to do it this fast
35:15because this is the most expensive
35:17program of regulation
35:20ever imposed
35:20on the energy industry.
35:22Okay.
35:22So he says,
35:24no, this is an emergency.
35:25It's an expensive regulation
35:27about...
35:27And if we don't jump in now,
35:28it's going to cost a lot of money.
35:30So then why not
35:31the tariff case?
35:33When the president
35:34levies tariffs,
35:36why don't they,
35:37boom,
35:38give him a shadow docket
35:39and go,
35:40you can't do that
35:41because it's going to cost us
35:42trillions of dollars.
35:43It's going to put small business...
35:44How is that
35:45more of an emergency
35:46than the tariffs?
35:47I mean, I think
35:48what you're asking is,
35:50like, has...
35:51You're asking,
35:51has President Obama
35:52and President Trump,
35:54have they been treated
35:55the same way
35:55by the justices?
35:56I am asking that.
36:00That's what I meant.
36:01So what we see,
36:02I mean, what scholars have shown
36:03is that shadow docket cases
36:05have more partisan results
36:07than the slow kind.
36:09How many more...
36:10When you say it was used,
36:12it's not used as much,
36:12how often are they using it now
36:15and how far does that number
36:17distance it from precedent?
36:19I mean,
36:20this was a trickle
36:2110 years...
36:22Like, when this case
36:23we wrote about happened,
36:25people were like,
36:26whoa,
36:26like, what is even happening here?
36:28Now it is a regular way
36:30of the court doing business.
36:33We counted,
36:34it was about 20 cases
36:35in which they...
36:36Is it supposed to be temporary,
36:37though?
36:38Is it when they do
36:39a shadow docket
36:39do they say...
36:40That's very important.
36:40...we're just putting out
36:41a marker
36:42and we'll come back to it
36:43and tell you why?
36:45So,
36:46defenders of the court
36:47would say,
36:47yeah,
36:47these are temporary decisions.
36:49Critics of the court
36:50would say,
36:51but they have
36:52huge consequences.
36:53Right.
36:53Like,
36:54they're deporting people.
36:56You're not gonna
36:56undeport somebody necessarily
36:58or you're making
36:59massive changes
37:00to the federal government
37:02that are very hard
37:03to undo.
37:04So they are temporary
37:05but they are
37:06hugely consequential.
37:08Has there been
37:09a shadow docket case
37:11since Donald Trump
37:13took office
37:13or in a Republican
37:14administration
37:15that's been utilized
37:16to diminish
37:18the power
37:19of the executive
37:20if the Republicans
37:21are holding it?
37:21And wouldn't that
37:22then just grant
37:23those powers
37:24to a new
37:25Democratic president
37:25when they're elected
37:27if we still have those?
37:30I
37:33am afraid
37:34of giving you
37:36the wrong answer
37:37because I don't have
37:38every case in my head.
37:39No one's gonna check.
37:40No one.
37:42These people,
37:44they literally
37:44have the game on
37:46while this is going.
37:47The most important
37:49thing to say
37:51is that the cases
37:52have been decided
37:54overwhelmingly
37:54in President Trump's
37:56favor so far.
37:57But aren't,
37:58isn't it time
37:59we understand
38:00that the court
38:01is now an explicit
38:03political tool?
38:04Weren't we being naive?
38:05You know,
38:06when you have
38:06Leonard Leo
38:07in the Federalist Society
38:08literally growing
38:09justices in pods
38:11in a lab
38:12somewhere
38:13and spending
38:13millions and billions
38:14of dollars,
38:15shouldn't we now,
38:17shouldn't we be aware
38:18of that?
38:18So this is one
38:21of the questions
38:21we're trying to answer
38:22at the time.
38:23So what we've done
38:24is we've assembled
38:25a new team.
38:26There are five of us
38:26working on Supreme Court
38:28reporting now.
38:29And I think there was
38:30often an assumption
38:31in the past
38:32that we could write
38:33about the decisions,
38:34we could write about
38:35the oral arguments,
38:36but we couldn't get
38:37behind the scenes
38:38to see how power
38:39is really being exercised.
38:41But listen,
38:42journalists scrutinize power.
38:44It's what we do.
38:45And we can't have
38:46like a Supreme Court
38:47sized exception
38:48in our compact
38:50with the public.
38:51So in stories like this,
38:52in other stories,
38:53we have been able
38:54to get behind the scenes
38:56because there are
38:58so many questions
38:59about the court
39:00that we don't have
39:01answers to.
39:02The place is
39:02a locked box.
39:05How partisan
39:06are the justices?
39:07You're a great question.
39:08How do people age
39:09in these jobs?
39:11What does it mean
39:11to hold power
39:13power with like
39:14no accountability
39:15for 20 or 30 years
39:17at a time?
39:18What's under the robe?
39:19Who...
39:22Who's...
39:24Who's trying
39:24to influence...
39:26Who's trying
39:27to influence
39:28the justices?
39:29And so slowly,
39:30these are the questions
39:31that our whole
39:32reporting team
39:32at The Times
39:33is starting to answer.
39:34As you start
39:35to peel back
39:36that onion a little bit,
39:38is there a danger
39:39that we will suffer
39:40from a nostalgia
39:41of past courts
39:43that they operated
39:44in a way
39:45that had more integrity
39:47or less power politics
39:49or, um, you know,
39:52not as personal
39:53in terms of the animus
39:54or different things
39:54that are going on
39:55because we view
39:56those courts
39:58nostalgically
39:58to some respect,
39:59especially like
39:59the Warren court.
40:00It's such a great question.
40:01Courts have always
40:02been political.
40:04I mean, look,
40:06the justices
40:07are appointed
40:08by the presidents.
40:09We totally know that.
40:10But the job
40:12of a justice
40:13or a judge
40:14is to transcend,
40:16right?
40:16It's to be truly
40:18independent.
40:19It's to look
40:21at every case.
40:22But we know
40:23that's bullshit.
40:23We watch the
40:24confirmation hearings.
40:24How many times
40:25in the confirmation hearings
40:26did those guys go,
40:27I'm an umpire.
40:28I just call balls
40:29and strikes
40:30and stare decisis.
40:31It's all about precedent
40:33and I would never...
40:34And then as soon
40:34as they're in...
40:36But are you saying,
40:37John...
40:37Shadow docket.
40:38But are you...
40:38But are you saying...
40:40But do you still believe
40:42that it should be
40:42the goal of the courts
40:44to transcend political bias?
40:47Yes.
40:47Yes.
40:48So, like...
40:49They should.
40:50Yes.
40:51Will that put pressure
40:52on them to do so
40:54or are they ultimately
40:56just captured
40:57by the same political industry
40:58that captures everything else?
41:00I mean, I'm a reporter
41:01because I believe
41:03that information
41:04makes everything
41:06essentially better.
41:07and we're having
41:09a lot of debate
41:10about this country,
41:11about the Supreme Court.
41:12Yes.
41:12I want us to have
41:13the most information possible
41:15so that we can have
41:16the healthiest,
41:18richest,
41:19fairest,
41:20uh,
41:21debate
41:21about
41:23these, like,
41:24pretty difficult questions.
41:25I mean,
41:25people are talking
41:26about packing the court.
41:27You know,
41:28we're the only
41:28constitutional democracy
41:30without age limits
41:31or term limits.
41:32Oh, it's bananas.
41:34Judges.
41:35And so, I think...
41:36Bananas.
41:36There's going to be
41:36a lot of debate
41:37about that, too, right?
41:38And we...
41:39So we just, you know,
41:40it's hard to have
41:41a really great debate
41:43about a place
41:44that is totally secret.
41:46So that is why
41:47we are trying
41:48to cast some light.
41:49I can't even tell you
41:50what a beautiful sentiment
41:51I find in that,
41:53which is,
41:54you're right,
41:55it may be corrupted
41:56and it may be, uh,
41:59operating on a partisan principle,
42:00but isn't the idea
42:02to get us
42:03more and more information
42:04because that's the only way
42:06to improve it.
42:07Sometimes that's lost
42:08in the shouting
42:09and the clicking
42:10and all those different things.
42:11I think that's exactly
42:13the sentiment
42:13that we forgot.
42:14Well, thank you.
42:15Yeah.
42:16It's, uh,
42:16it's excellent.
42:17And then you wrote another book
42:18and, uh,
42:19I didn't get to that one.
42:22It's for your kids, so...
42:24This is for my kids?
42:25You might want to take a look, yeah.
42:26It better be a picture book.
42:31And it better, uh,
42:32be about looks-maxing.
42:34Um, uh,
42:35this was advice you gave
42:36to, to college graduates
42:37who are, it was, uh,
42:38you're giving a speech
42:39at Columbia about graduates
42:41and, uh, this was kind of
42:43the advice you were handing off.
42:44Well, it was a crazy situation.
42:45Remember, like,
42:46the chaos at Columbia?
42:47I'm familiar.
42:48So, in the middle of it,
42:50I get an email from them
42:51saying,
42:51will you give the undergraduate
42:52commencement speech?
42:54What?
42:54And it's like an honor,
42:55but also kind of a bad offer, right?
42:57And so, my friends from college...
43:00We're going out of business!
43:02And we were wondering...
43:05So, my college friends were like,
43:07don't do it.
43:08Call in sick.
43:09Like, you're-you're gonna get booed.
43:10And I was like,
43:12give me those kids
43:13for 15 minutes.
43:14Because I was so upset
43:16as a reporter,
43:18as a mom,
43:18as a citizen,
43:19at, like,
43:20seeing this place
43:21that stands for enlightenment
43:22and discussion
43:23just descend...
43:25Right.
43:25...into total toxicity.
43:27So, I was like,
43:29okay, I'll do it.
43:30I'm honored.
43:30But I need to talk
43:32to the students
43:32because I gotta read this room
43:34very carefully.
43:35So, I get on a Zoom
43:37with the students
43:37and they ask me
43:38a great question.
43:40They say,
43:41we chose you
43:42because of your career
43:43and we wanna know
43:45how in this crazy environment
43:47are we supposed to find
43:49and start our life's work?
43:50And I was like,
43:52this is awesome
43:53because that is such a hard...
43:55Yeah.
43:56It's, like,
43:56such a good question
43:57and I knew...
43:58And this environment
43:59is very different.
43:59It's not...
44:00It is...
44:00We're no longer bound
44:01by the traditional patterns.
44:02It is...
44:03Well, speaking of the word
44:04generational,
44:05this fear is generational.
44:07Yeah, yeah.
44:07I have, like,
44:07spoken at campuses
44:08all across the country.
44:10The elite universities,
44:11the more humble universities,
44:13there are common fears, right?
44:15But I don't wanna spend
44:16all our time tonight
44:17on the fears
44:18because, like,
44:18we all know
44:19what the negatives are.
44:20Maybe neither.
44:21The interesting...
44:23I'm not that guy.
44:24Do you think I'm that guy?
44:26Is that what you're suggesting?
44:27I'm not that guy.
44:28I heard you say it before
44:29you were a little concerned
44:30about AI.
44:31But the really interesting question
44:34is, like,
44:35what are young people
44:36actually supposed to do?
44:38Right.
44:38Like, what is a...
44:40What is a positive,
44:43productive response
44:45look like
44:45in this environment?
44:47So that's what
44:47this book is about.
44:49Yeah.
44:49So you can either
44:50read the book
44:51and get it
44:51and find that out
44:52or you can probably
44:52just run the question
44:53through ChatGPT,
44:54I would think.
44:56You know just what to say
44:57to an author,
44:58Jon Stewart.
44:59All the time.
45:00You're doing
45:00unbelievably great work.
45:01Thank you so much.
45:02I appreciate you being here.
45:03How to Start,
45:04Discovering Your Life's Work
45:05is available right now.
45:07Jodi Kantor,
45:07quick break
45:08and we'll be right back.
45:24All right.
45:26Oh, they're going crazy.
45:27That's it's over tonight.
45:28But before we go,
45:29we're going to check in
45:29with your host
45:30for the rest of the week,
45:31Mr. Josh Johnson.
45:32Josh!
45:34Excited for you.
45:35Excited for your week
45:36coming up.
45:37Josh, what do you got for us?
45:38It's a huge week, Jon.
45:40We got a royal visit.
45:41It's Charles III's
45:42first trip to America
45:44as king.
45:44And I am so excited
45:46to ask His Majesty
45:47how our nuts taste.
45:54I'm sorry.
45:56How, how, what is that now?
45:57How our nuts taste, Jon.
45:59It's America's 250th baby.
46:02All right.
46:02The anniversary
46:03of when we smoked
46:04the British
46:04like Memphis brisket.
46:07We kicked those
46:08inbred bitches
46:09from Bunker Hill
46:09to Yorktown.
46:11And I can't wait
46:12to show them
46:12where it all happened.
46:13I'm going to be pointing
46:13like, we beat your ass there.
46:15We beat your ass there.
46:16Here's where you cried.
46:17Josh, I don't,
46:18this is, if I may,
46:19this is not that,
46:21it's a friend,
46:21Britain is an ally.
46:23They're an ally.
46:24Yeah, because they know
46:25if they step out,
46:25we'll them up.
46:26All right?
46:28No, I wish a Windsor would,
46:30King Chuck.
46:31No, that's,
46:32Josh, why are you
46:33being so aggressive?
46:36Because we really
46:37need a win, Jon.
46:38Oh.
46:40Yeah, we've been
46:41getting embarrassed
46:41all over the world.
46:43Iran got in a chokehold.
46:45Even the Pope
46:45put us in our place.
46:48The Pope, Jon.
46:49No, I...
46:51We need a fight
46:52we can win, you know?
46:53Yeah.
46:54So when I see you
46:55in the streets,
46:55King Charles,
46:56I'm slapping
46:56the beans at you.
46:57All right, all right.
46:58Josh Johnson, everybody.
47:00Here it is,
47:00your moment of death.
47:01The royals are coming.
47:03The royals are coming
47:04to the U.S.
47:05The British are coming!
47:06The king set to speak
47:08to Congress
47:09in the U.S. Capitol,
47:10which the British
47:11tried to burn down
47:12in the War of 1812.
47:14We will never forget.
47:22Sorry.
47:23Sorry.
47:23I'll see you next time.
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