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00:04:11I met Carolyn when I was in my late 20s
00:04:15and she was a wonderful teacher, amazing musician, kind
00:04:21and of course physically she was so beautiful.
00:04:26My name is Vicky Sheaf.
00:04:28I was a good friend of Carolyn Stuckey
00:04:32in our late 20s, early 30s
00:04:37and now I'm sitting here at 71.
00:04:41Yeah, we got scholarships to go to Teachers College
00:04:44and we developed a very strong friendship.
00:04:47We just clicked.
00:04:48She was teaching our children at the time
00:04:51and they had known her all their short lives
00:04:55and were very fond of her.
00:04:57I can remember my son, age five, saying,
00:05:00I love Mrs Stuckey, Mum, you know, and he meant it.
00:05:05I think she loved children.
00:05:07I think, you know, you probably don't become a schoolteacher
00:05:10if you don't love children.
00:05:12She says, I'm going to go, you know, into Miss Lismore
00:05:15and I thought, oh, good on you, you know.
00:05:18And next thing, she's in the paper and she's won.
00:05:22This one is where she was announced Miss Lismore
00:05:31and there's Jackie Weaver down there
00:05:34and some guys going in the background.
00:05:38It was a big thing.
00:05:39It was real prestigious to be, you know, Miss Lismore.
00:05:43Oh, yeah, you were special.
00:05:45So, yeah, she would have been easily recognisable, definitely.
00:05:51She was the sort of woman that people would turn around and look at
00:05:54but she was oblivious to her beauty.
00:05:56She was oblivious to the effect she had on people.
00:06:01I was with Carolyn at the Lismore Workers' Club
00:06:04and it was a Wednesday night
00:06:06when she met her husband, Alan Stuckey.
00:06:09I don't know whether he owned the pharmacy
00:06:10but he was certainly the principal in the pharmacy in Lismore.
00:06:14And he was eight years older, so he was well-placed.
00:06:19But we were only 18, you know, and I'm going,
00:06:21who's this dude, you know?
00:06:24Who's this dude coming over here?
00:06:26She was there for the picking, wasn't she?
00:06:29She was a pretty little thing, big blue eyes, blonde hair.
00:06:33Easily...
00:06:35..easily won over, I would say.
00:06:38This one is the two of them
00:06:42and my dad's sister at their wedding.
00:06:48I mean, the first thing I think is
00:06:51those sideburns were quite a statement.
00:06:57Yeah, I mean, look, it's a bit strange
00:07:00to look at wedding photos of them.
00:07:05There's a lot of, like, hope and promise
00:07:07in that moment of a future
00:07:10that would look a lot different
00:07:14than it turned out to look.
00:07:23Her marriage to Alan Stuckey,
00:07:26they just didn't, to me and to a lot of people,
00:07:29didn't seem to.
00:07:32mash together.
00:07:33He was into tennis,
00:07:35big way.
00:07:36But, yeah, that wasn't her thing at all, no.
00:07:40She's more literary and arty and music
00:07:42and, you know, different.
00:07:45Yeah, they were chalk and cheese, really,
00:07:47when you analyse it like that.
00:07:50The Lismore Theatre Club
00:07:51was a very, kind of, vibrant community.
00:07:59I think it was a place where a lot of people
00:08:02could, kind of, have some fun
00:08:04and have this social connection.
00:08:08Most of our friends at that time
00:08:10belonged to the theatre club.
00:08:11And Carolyn had never previously been
00:08:14in the theatre club,
00:08:15but I think she envied the fun we had.
00:08:19And so she auditioned.
00:08:22Is it for Cole being a ghost?
00:08:25No, I don't think so.
00:08:27What happens if I punch you?
00:08:29I doubt if you can.
00:08:30Do you want to?
00:08:31Oh, well, Vera...
00:08:32Life Spirit is a play written by Noel Coward.
00:08:36It's about a man who is haunted
00:08:38by the ghost of his dead wife.
00:08:40The ghost is played by my mum, Carolyn.
00:08:43You are here, aren't you?
00:08:44You're not an illusion.
00:08:46I may be an illusion,
00:08:47but I'm most definitely here.
00:08:49And her husband is played by Alan Ennue.
00:08:52You must promise me that in future
00:08:54you'll only come and talk to me
00:08:56when I'm alone.
00:08:57My dear, madame our party.
00:08:59I'm afraid I'm wrongly.
00:09:01And also in this play
00:09:02was Alan's wife, Madeleine,
00:09:06who is playing a psychic.
00:09:08I may have to go into a psychic dance,
00:09:11but if I do, pay your attention.
00:09:12I may have to go into a psychic
00:09:13song.
00:09:13I may have to play into a psychic Building Night
00:09:13have to go into aimen discussion.dする
00:09:29no,
00:09:29I don't know. That's what I
00:09:30do for I can do now.
00:09:32I do the discomfort.
00:09:32I don't know which
00:09:32I do. You drink yourIL back?
00:09:32Do the光. You drink
00:09:33yourIL back?
00:09:38Do you want to do that?
00:09:39Aw, yes. Oh, no.
00:09:43The last time I was here was when Glye's Spirit was a production.
00:09:57Oh, there's Dad.
00:10:00It's a very typical Dad in Theatre Club look.
00:10:04There's Mum.
00:10:08You know, my Dad loved this place.
00:10:09He loved acting.
00:10:11And Mum did too.
00:10:12She was a good actor.
00:10:15There's a program there.
00:10:18Who's in it.
00:10:21And then a bunch of photos.
00:10:26It's this one.
00:10:28There's a couple like this with Dad and Caroline.
00:10:31Just this moment caught where they're looking at each other and I just go, yeah.
00:10:39You know, that's the sort of vibe that my mum would have got hold of.
00:10:45Because the emotions were real, right?
00:10:48They weren't just acting.
00:10:54I don't know all the details of what went on there.
00:10:58But definitely a relationship was developing and a friendship and an attraction.
00:11:04The silliest thing I ever did in my whole life was to love you.
00:11:07They say a grand passion is like an insanity.
00:11:10And it was for both of them.
00:11:13I came because the power of Charles' love.
00:11:22Yes, there was a lot of sneaking around, which happens in an affair, but lots of presents and flowers and
00:11:29gifts.
00:11:31I did have to keep a secret.
00:11:34I could see how happy they both were.
00:11:37I mean, I cared deeply for Madeline as well, so that was very difficult.
00:11:42The risks that Alan, Ennu and Caroline took, the notes that were left on the telegraph pole at the end
00:11:49of the road, on her car.
00:11:51I saw one at the supermarket when I was there one day, walked past her car, and there was one
00:11:56of these notes.
00:11:57My dearest, most precious Caroline, I love you.
00:12:03You are a wonderful man.
00:12:06Kind, thoughtful, understanding.
00:12:09I love the thoughts of our ultimate togetherness, which I now see as inevitable.
00:12:15Alan, Ennu had moved out of his home and had rendered a little flat.
00:12:23Madeline wasn't coping at all.
00:12:25She lost a lot of weight very quickly.
00:12:29I remember one day she told me she was going to kill herself.
00:12:33I said, oh, you know, you can't do that.
00:12:36Her two boys were at university in Sydney.
00:12:39Her daughter, Claire, was 18.
00:12:41She said she couldn't be jilted.
00:12:44She couldn't be left on her own as someone left for the younger person.
00:12:49She couldn't deal with that humiliation.
00:12:51And I spoke to my GP and he said what people used to say in those days.
00:12:55He said, oh, if they talk about it, they don't do it.
00:12:59And he was a well-meaning man.
00:13:02But that was wrong.
00:13:05Alan found the body and she'd organised so that Claire wasn't home that night.
00:13:10And sure enough, everything in the house was tip-top.
00:13:15Food was made for her own funeral.
00:13:21In her letter to me, because she wrote suicide letters,
00:13:25she told me not to blame my father.
00:13:28And honestly, I don't.
00:13:29I don't blame anyone in this story.
00:13:32It's just really hard being the child of that story, you know.
00:13:41It's all very tragic to think about the fact that these two women in this play
00:13:47are now dead in the ways that they died.
00:13:56Carolyn was, she was devastated by it and felt incredible guilt.
00:14:03I would say that Alan Inu, he was very sad about Madeleine
00:14:08and it was a traumatic and hideous thing that happened and he found her.
00:14:13But he was so obsessed with the fact that one day Carolyn would come to him
00:14:18and so he bought this big house.
00:14:21That was going to be the home with lots of bedrooms
00:14:23so that they could have all their children there eventually at times.
00:14:27That was his idea.
00:14:28No-one wanted to be divorced.
00:14:30No-one wanted to leave their husband.
00:14:31Because there was a lot of stigma in the community.
00:14:35Not today, but back in the 70s, dead right, and 80s.
00:14:39If she left the marriage, she was concerned what, I guess,
00:14:45the parents of her students, the church.
00:14:48She felt enormous shame for going against what she'd been taught
00:14:53as far as her religion was concerned.
00:14:56Religion was a big part of growing up in the 50s and 60s.
00:15:00Huge, you know.
00:15:01Everybody.
00:15:02It was rare for a family not to go to church.
00:15:06When she told us that Alan Stuckey had found out,
00:15:09I thought, right, now something will happen now.
00:15:12Either she will stay with him or she'll go with Alan Enu,
00:15:15but at least it's not this terrible, dangerous game
00:15:19that they were still playing.
00:15:22You've distanced yourself and made me resentful
00:15:25by taunting me with Alan Enu.
00:15:28If you do not love me, then I cannot go on to even try to work things out.
00:15:35My mum decided to stay with my dad
00:15:39and he made her swear on the Bible
00:15:42and he wrote vows for her to take.
00:15:49I swear never to say or do anything again to hurt you.
00:15:54I swear never to lie to my husband, Alan, ever again.
00:15:59I swear that the affair is over completely
00:16:03and that I will never do anything directly or indirectly
00:16:07to have any type of relationship with him again.
00:16:11I swear to love, honour and cherish you
00:16:15for the rest of my days.
00:16:18I asked her if she was worried for her own safety
00:16:22and she said, no, no.
00:16:25She said, I'm not, but I am worried
00:16:28what he might do to Alan Enu.
00:16:32Alan, if you should have any thoughts
00:16:34of trying to rekindle the relationship
00:16:36or even getting in touch with her in any way,
00:16:39then I will tell you now, you will join your wife.
00:16:45But she was very unhappy.
00:16:49She, well, she'd just had a baby.
00:16:53It must have been so stressful for her
00:16:56and she had two little boys as well.
00:17:03My darling, Alan,
00:17:06to choose to go to you meant a disruption of a family,
00:17:09gossip and talk about the cause of Madeline's death.
00:17:15To stay with Alan meant unbearable pain for you.
00:17:20For me, it meant an ache inside
00:17:22which I know will be with me every day
00:17:25for the rest of my life.
00:17:28She'd supposedly broken off with Alan Enu.
00:17:31It was over.
00:17:32Suddenly, she was seeing him again.
00:17:34And I said, Alan Stuckey will not
00:17:37let her go without a fight.
00:17:39We always knew that he
00:17:43was a man who
00:17:44would not be able to accept it.
00:17:48Like a lot of people, I suppose.
00:17:52And then he puts a private detective on her.
00:17:54Good God.
00:17:55She thought Alan Stuckey had
00:17:59been having her followed.
00:18:00I think she said,
00:18:02a little grey Volkswagen,
00:18:03I think I'm being followed.
00:18:06And to which I just thought,
00:18:08oh my God, where's that going to go?
00:18:11There's absolutely no excuse for that behaviour.
00:18:14Monitoring someone's movements
00:18:16is a huge indicator of family violence,
00:18:19of coercive control.
00:18:20I find it really disturbing
00:18:21that he did that,
00:18:23that he felt justified in doing that.
00:18:39My darling,
00:18:41I'm going to ask you again
00:18:43for the complete peace of mind.
00:18:45Have you had any contact
00:18:47since your vows?
00:18:49I beg you,
00:18:51I implore you,
00:18:52do not tell me a lie.
00:18:55It is the most important question
00:18:57you will ever answer.
00:19:01All I know is
00:19:02I love you more than anything.
00:19:05Alan.
00:19:09I happened to be in the station
00:19:11on the 31st of January 1985
00:19:14when the phone rang
00:19:16and I answered it.
00:19:18There was a male voice
00:19:20on the other end of the phone
00:19:21very calmly said,
00:19:24it's Alan Stuckey
00:19:25from Five Banksia Court,
00:19:27Lisboa Heights.
00:19:30and I said,
00:19:31yes Alan,
00:19:32how can we help you?
00:19:33And he said,
00:19:34you'd better come up,
00:19:35I've just shot my wife.
00:19:37You know,
00:19:38when you did your training
00:19:39at the police academy,
00:19:40one of the things
00:19:41that I do remember very clearly
00:19:42that they instilled in young police
00:19:45was that
00:19:47domestic violence incidents,
00:19:48attending those
00:19:50was the most dangerous situation
00:19:51that we would go to.
00:19:55Of course,
00:19:56you know,
00:19:56I was anxious
00:19:58approaching the house
00:19:59under those circumstances
00:20:01and, you know,
00:20:02we went into the house
00:20:03and Alan Stuckey
00:20:05was sitting
00:20:06in the kitchen
00:20:07at a bench.
00:20:08He was just sitting there
00:20:09calmly
00:20:12sipping coffee
00:20:12from a mug
00:20:14as though
00:20:15nothing had happened.
00:20:17It was,
00:20:17yeah,
00:20:18it was quite surreal.
00:20:24I walked into
00:20:25the main bedroom
00:20:27and there was a double bed
00:20:29to the right
00:20:30at the foot of the bed
00:20:32was a female
00:20:34person.
00:20:35It was quite shocking
00:20:37obviously
00:20:37what had happened
00:20:39to start with
00:20:39but also having the,
00:20:41you know,
00:20:42the three children
00:20:43in the house
00:20:44at the time
00:20:45and,
00:20:46yeah,
00:20:47by good fortune
00:20:50perhaps nothing happened
00:20:51to them
00:20:53at the time.
00:20:54I was teaching
00:20:55down the other end
00:20:57of the peninsula here.
00:20:58I had on the playground
00:20:59on duty
00:20:59and my husband
00:21:00pulled up.
00:21:01I said,
00:21:01what are you doing here?
00:21:02He said,
00:21:03oh,
00:21:03I've got terrible news
00:21:04to tell you.
00:21:05I turned the radio
00:21:07on next to the bed
00:21:10and it said
00:21:12that a
00:21:1432-year-old
00:21:14small woman
00:21:15had been shot dead
00:21:17overnight.
00:21:18Police were
00:21:19at the scene
00:21:19in Gunalabar
00:21:20and we knew
00:21:22the full
00:21:24It was fairly
00:21:26hysterical in our house.
00:21:27We were incredibly upset.
00:21:29Alan had killed
00:21:30Carolyn
00:21:31and as a child
00:21:34I just
00:21:34had no concept
00:21:36of what that,
00:21:38how that could happen.
00:21:39I can still remember
00:21:40the feeling
00:21:41and thinking,
00:21:42oh my God,
00:21:43I could have stopped this.
00:21:45That was something
00:21:46I think
00:21:48a lot of people
00:21:49thought
00:21:50in a case
00:21:51like that,
00:21:51a murder
00:21:53or an unlawful
00:21:54killing of someone.
00:21:56We call out
00:21:57the detectives,
00:21:58they come to the scene,
00:21:59they take over
00:22:00the investigation.
00:22:01The lead investigator
00:22:02was Detective Sergeant
00:22:04Don Kuehl.
00:22:06Senior Constable
00:22:07Will Palmer
00:22:07rang me at home,
00:22:08told me that
00:22:10there'd been
00:22:11a shooting
00:22:12and a lady
00:22:13was deceased.
00:22:14We went back
00:22:16to the police station
00:22:16where he was
00:22:17interviewed
00:22:18in the presence
00:22:18of his solicitor.
00:22:20given some
00:22:21of the answers
00:22:21and whatnot,
00:22:22I'd say that
00:22:22he ran through
00:22:24a lot of the
00:22:25possible situations
00:22:27with his solicitor
00:22:28prior,
00:22:28which he's entitled
00:22:29to do.
00:22:31For the information
00:22:32of this record
00:22:32of interview,
00:22:33what is your full name?
00:22:34Alan James Stuckey.
00:22:37I had reason
00:22:38to doubt her fidelity
00:22:39and I engaged
00:22:40the private investigator
00:22:41to check her movements.
00:22:42Can you tell me
00:22:43what happened?
00:22:44She admitted
00:22:44that she had been
00:22:45in with Alan Ennue
00:22:46on that day.
00:22:47She said
00:22:48she couldn't
00:22:48give him up.
00:22:49What did you do?
00:22:50I took the rifle
00:22:51from my study
00:22:51and raced back
00:22:52to the bedroom.
00:22:54She screamed
00:22:55and grabbed the barrel
00:22:56of the rifle
00:22:56and we struggled.
00:22:58Shots were fired.
00:22:59When did you load
00:23:00this rifle?
00:23:01I was going to shoot
00:23:02a flying fox
00:23:03a couple of months ago
00:23:04and that's when.
00:23:05Did you load
00:23:06the magazine loaded
00:23:07with live cartridges
00:23:08in this rifle
00:23:09in your study?
00:23:10Yes,
00:23:11but it was right
00:23:11back behind the bed
00:23:12so that it's not easy
00:23:14for anybody to get at.
00:23:15What happened then?
00:23:16I had a shower
00:23:17and tried to compose
00:23:18my mind
00:23:19and work out
00:23:19if I should kill
00:23:20myself or not.
00:23:22I rang my sister
00:23:23to ask her
00:23:23to come and collect
00:23:24my children
00:23:25and it occurred to me
00:23:26that there was a debt
00:23:27that I hadn't paid
00:23:28and that was
00:23:28to the private investigator
00:23:30and I rang his residence
00:23:31to tell him
00:23:32that his money
00:23:33was in the worksite.
00:23:34I didn't want to feel
00:23:35that I had left
00:23:36some money hoeing.
00:23:37You have explained
00:23:38to us your wife
00:23:39affair with the person
00:23:40helling in you.
00:23:41Is that the only reason
00:23:42you can give us
00:23:43for this shooting
00:23:44having taken place?
00:23:45Yes.
00:23:46And considerations
00:23:47allied to it, yes.
00:23:48Is there anything
00:23:49further you wish to say
00:23:50in relation to this matter?
00:23:52Just that the affair
00:23:53has been going on
00:23:54for two years.
00:23:56That's all.
00:24:01I was three months old.
00:24:04My brothers were
00:24:05four and eight.
00:24:07And to have the children
00:24:09in the house
00:24:10when he did it.
00:24:11I mean,
00:24:13you can't imagine
00:24:14that scene.
00:24:15I don't think
00:24:16you can make sense of it.
00:24:18It's unforgivable.
00:24:19Should never have happened.
00:24:21I mean,
00:24:24the type of thing
00:24:26that was going on
00:24:27happens all the time.
00:24:28People don't die for it.
00:24:31After he was charged
00:24:32with murder,
00:24:34Alan Stuckey was bailed.
00:24:37and the reason
00:24:38he would have got bailed
00:24:38is because of his
00:24:39standing in the community
00:24:40as a chemist.
00:24:41No prior convictions.
00:24:44His young children
00:24:44were still there.
00:24:46He's not going to decamp.
00:24:48So Stuckey got bailed.
00:24:50Went back to work,
00:24:51I think.
00:24:52My dad was charged
00:24:54with murder,
00:24:56but the trial
00:24:57wasn't for
00:24:57a year and a half.
00:25:00It was quite surprising
00:25:01to me,
00:25:02I think,
00:25:03when I realised
00:25:04that
00:25:04my brothers and I
00:25:06were at home
00:25:07with my dad
00:25:08a lot of that time.
00:25:10He was able
00:25:11to get out,
00:25:13resume a normal life
00:25:14with his children,
00:25:16with his three
00:25:17young children,
00:25:18back in his house
00:25:19in Lismore Heights
00:25:20and
00:25:22go back
00:25:23as a practising
00:25:24pharmacist
00:25:25of all things.
00:25:26Despite
00:25:27the fact
00:25:27that he had killed
00:25:28Caroline,
00:25:29he still
00:25:31had
00:25:31the legal right
00:25:33to dispose
00:25:33of her body
00:25:34as her husband.
00:25:35and he just
00:25:37simply had her
00:25:38cremated
00:25:39instantly
00:25:40with no
00:25:41ceremony
00:25:42and nobody
00:25:44had a chance
00:25:45to
00:25:47recognise
00:25:49what had happened
00:25:51or to say
00:25:52goodbye to her.
00:25:53It was just
00:25:54as though
00:25:54she'd been put out
00:25:55with the rubbish.
00:25:57I've always
00:25:58wanted to know
00:26:00everything
00:26:01about it,
00:26:03you know,
00:26:03like everything
00:26:04surrounding it
00:26:05and I've always
00:26:06wanted to know
00:26:07what happened,
00:26:09how it happened,
00:26:10why it happened.
00:26:15That's been
00:26:16a lifelong
00:26:18journey.
00:26:22I want to
00:26:23understand
00:26:25where
00:26:25we were
00:26:26and where I was
00:26:28and what happened
00:26:29afterwards
00:26:29and why the decisions
00:26:31that were made
00:26:31were made.
00:26:39so part of it
00:26:41is just
00:26:41wanting to know
00:26:42about my own
00:26:43life
00:26:44and know
00:26:44information
00:26:45and put
00:26:45those puzzle
00:26:46pieces together.
00:26:52so this is
00:26:53the trial
00:26:53transcript
00:26:58and are you
00:26:59feeling okay
00:27:00about looking
00:27:00at it now?
00:27:02I am.
00:27:02I feel a little
00:27:03bit nervous
00:27:04about it.
00:27:06I don't know.
00:27:06There's a part of me
00:27:07that sort of wants
00:27:07information
00:27:08and then
00:27:09sort of wants
00:27:10to look at it
00:27:10and then
00:27:11a part of me
00:27:12that finds it
00:27:13quite upsetting.
00:27:14Absolutely.
00:27:16So in
00:27:17this trial
00:27:18your father
00:27:19argued
00:27:20that he
00:27:21acted
00:27:22in response
00:27:23to provocation.
00:27:24The provocation
00:27:25in this case
00:27:27was said to be
00:27:28that
00:27:29Carolyn
00:27:30was having
00:27:31an affair.
00:27:33They're arguing
00:27:34that a person's
00:27:35actions
00:27:35contributed
00:27:36to
00:27:38their death.
00:27:39The provocation
00:27:40defence
00:27:41is actually
00:27:42a partial defence.
00:27:44It will reduce
00:27:45your culpability
00:27:46from murder
00:27:48to manslaughter.
00:27:49The guideline
00:27:50of the provocation
00:27:52and the evidence
00:27:53required is that
00:27:54it comes back
00:27:54to what an
00:27:55ordinary person
00:27:56would do
00:27:57under those
00:27:58circumstances.
00:27:59So in other
00:28:00words you and
00:28:01I would react
00:28:02the same way
00:28:04as Ellen Stuckey
00:28:06acted
00:28:06given the
00:28:07circumstances.
00:28:08People's marriages
00:28:09break down.
00:28:11I'm a lawyer
00:28:12and I hate
00:28:13being a family
00:28:14lawyer but
00:28:14somebody's got
00:28:15to do it
00:28:16and it
00:28:18happens all
00:28:18the time
00:28:19but you don't
00:28:20turn around
00:28:20and kill
00:28:20your spouse.
00:28:27Your full
00:28:28name is
00:28:29William
00:28:30Arthur
00:28:30Barclay
00:28:31a consultant
00:28:32psychiatrist
00:28:33now in private
00:28:34practice.
00:28:34Are you able
00:28:35to express
00:28:36an opinion
00:28:36as to whether
00:28:37that conduct
00:28:38could have
00:28:39induced an
00:28:40ordinary person
00:28:41to lose
00:28:42self-control
00:28:43in psychiatric
00:28:44terms?
00:28:45Yes, I believe
00:28:46so.
00:28:48There was a
00:28:49certain element
00:28:50of
00:28:52if someone
00:28:53was wronged
00:28:54in that way
00:28:54then they
00:28:56could be
00:28:56excused for
00:28:57not being able
00:28:57to control
00:28:58themselves.
00:28:58there's an
00:28:59ordinary person
00:29:01get a gun
00:29:02which is already
00:29:03in the house
00:29:03loaded
00:29:04with three
00:29:05young children
00:29:06in the place
00:29:08there's an
00:29:08ordinary person
00:29:09do that
00:29:09and there's an
00:29:10ordinary person
00:29:12shoot his wife
00:29:14and there's an
00:29:15ordinary person
00:29:16have a shower
00:29:16ring a friend
00:29:17ring his list
00:29:18there's an ordinary
00:29:19person do that.
00:29:20The person
00:29:21that they've
00:29:22killed is
00:29:22no longer
00:29:23able to
00:29:24give their
00:29:24side of the
00:29:24story or
00:29:25talk about
00:29:25what they
00:29:27went through
00:29:28it's very
00:29:29one-sided
00:29:29and it's
00:29:31highly critical
00:29:32of that
00:29:32person
00:29:33and then
00:29:34at the same
00:29:35time
00:29:35you also
00:29:36get people
00:29:36giving evidence
00:29:37about the
00:29:38positive
00:29:38characteristics
00:29:39of the
00:29:40accused.
00:29:42When you
00:29:43spoke to
00:29:44your brother
00:29:44can you
00:29:45describe
00:29:46how he
00:29:46appeared to
00:29:47you to
00:29:47be?
00:29:48Extremely
00:29:49upset
00:29:49What sort
00:29:50of person
00:29:51is your
00:29:52brother?
00:29:53Very
00:29:54serious
00:29:54minded
00:29:55very
00:29:56moral
00:29:57quiet
00:29:58shy
00:29:59very
00:30:00idealistic
00:30:01person
00:30:01I also
00:30:02think
00:30:03very
00:30:03naive
00:30:04Is he
00:30:05a violent
00:30:06sort
00:30:06of
00:30:06person?
00:30:07No
00:30:07no
00:30:08not at
00:30:09all
00:30:09he
00:30:10loved
00:30:10the
00:30:10children
00:30:11he
00:30:11always
00:30:11has
00:30:12Did
00:30:13he
00:30:14ever
00:30:14express
00:30:14to
00:30:14you
00:30:15the
00:30:15view
00:30:15he
00:30:16took
00:30:16of
00:30:16marriage
00:30:17that
00:30:18marriage
00:30:18is a
00:30:19sacred
00:30:19thing
00:30:22It
00:30:23seems
00:30:23so
00:30:24odd
00:30:24to
00:30:24me
00:30:24that
00:30:25none
00:30:25of
00:30:25her
00:30:25friends
00:30:26got to
00:30:27speak
00:30:28for her
00:30:29at least
00:30:29because she
00:30:30wasn't able
00:30:30to speak
00:30:31so
00:30:31it's like
00:30:32there were
00:30:33other people
00:30:34who could
00:30:34have at least
00:30:35spoke
00:30:35to her
00:30:36character
00:30:37and
00:30:39given
00:30:40some
00:30:40indication
00:30:41of what
00:30:42she was
00:30:43going
00:30:43through
00:30:43I
00:30:43just
00:30:44yeah
00:30:44yeah
00:30:45it
00:30:45becomes
00:30:46very
00:30:46one-sided
00:30:46sort
00:30:47of
00:30:47view
00:30:47of
00:30:47what
00:30:48happens
00:30:48in
00:30:49that
00:30:49situation
00:30:50doesn't
00:30:51it
00:30:51yeah
00:30:51yeah
00:30:51sometimes
00:30:53the
00:30:53prosecution
00:30:55could
00:30:56go
00:30:56much
00:30:57further
00:30:57in
00:30:57the
00:30:57way
00:30:58that
00:30:58they
00:30:58approach
00:30:58this
00:30:59and
00:30:59in
00:30:59trying
00:30:59to
00:31:00ask
00:31:00questions
00:31:00and
00:31:01get
00:31:01more
00:31:01information
00:31:02about
00:31:02that
00:31:03context
00:31:03they
00:31:04don't
00:31:05always
00:31:05understand
00:31:06the
00:31:06dynamics
00:31:06of
00:31:06family
00:31:07violence
00:31:07themselves
00:31:08and
00:31:09the
00:31:10importance
00:31:10of
00:31:11it
00:31:11for
00:31:11understanding
00:31:12what
00:31:13happens
00:31:13in
00:31:13domestic
00:31:14homicides
00:31:16what
00:31:16we
00:31:16really
00:31:17needed
00:31:17in
00:31:18this
00:31:18trial
00:31:18as far
00:31:18as
00:31:18the
00:31:19prosecution
00:31:19is
00:31:19concerned
00:31:20we
00:31:20needed
00:31:21someone
00:31:21that
00:31:21was
00:31:22going
00:31:22to
00:31:22get
00:31:22in
00:31:22there
00:31:22and
00:31:22fight
00:31:23like
00:31:23a
00:31:23bulldog
00:31:23and
00:31:24shake
00:31:24their
00:31:24head
00:31:24and
00:31:24carry
00:31:25on
00:31:25and
00:31:26unfortunately
00:31:27we
00:31:27finished
00:31:27up with
00:31:28a
00:31:28golden
00:31:28retriever
00:31:30I
00:31:30was
00:31:31appalled
00:31:31at
00:31:31the
00:31:31lack
00:31:32of
00:31:32prosecution
00:31:33I
00:31:34mean
00:31:34I
00:31:34remember
00:31:34sitting
00:31:34in
00:31:35the
00:31:35back
00:31:35of
00:31:35the
00:31:35court
00:31:36and
00:31:36just
00:31:36thinking
00:31:36oh
00:31:37my
00:31:43was
00:31:43that
00:31:44there
00:31:45was
00:31:45so
00:31:46much
00:31:47shock
00:31:47and
00:31:47horror
00:31:48because
00:31:49she
00:31:49was
00:31:49this
00:31:49scarlet
00:31:50woman
00:31:52we
00:31:52would
00:31:52hear
00:31:53indirectly
00:31:55about
00:31:56the
00:31:56outrage
00:31:56about
00:31:57what
00:31:57this
00:31:57woman
00:31:57had
00:31:58done
00:31:58to
00:31:58this
00:31:58poor
00:31:58chap
00:31:59not
00:32:00what
00:32:00this
00:32:00chap
00:32:00had
00:32:01done
00:32:01to
00:32:01this
00:32:01poor
00:32:01woman
00:32:03yeah
00:32:04I
00:32:04just
00:32:04think
00:32:05there
00:32:05was
00:32:05this
00:32:05mindset
00:32:05that
00:32:08she's
00:32:09the
00:32:09villain
00:32:09in
00:32:10all
00:32:10this
00:32:10she's
00:32:11done
00:32:11the
00:32:11wrong
00:32:11thing
00:32:12and
00:32:13in
00:32:13a
00:32:13sense
00:32:13I
00:32:14hate
00:32:14to
00:32:14say
00:32:14it
00:32:14but
00:32:15some
00:32:16of
00:32:16those
00:32:16people
00:32:17I'm
00:32:17sure
00:32:17think
00:32:17she
00:32:18got
00:32:18what
00:32:18she
00:32:19deserved
00:32:26so
00:32:37there's
00:32:38quite a
00:32:38lot of
00:32:39evidence
00:32:39in
00:32:40relation
00:32:40to
00:32:40the
00:32:40ballistics
00:32:41what
00:32:42sort
00:32:42of
00:32:42weapon
00:32:43was
00:32:43used
00:32:44and
00:32:44how
00:32:45that
00:32:45weapon
00:32:46is
00:32:46operated
00:32:50Carol
00:32:51was shot
00:32:51three times
00:32:53once in the abdomen
00:32:54twice in the head
00:33:00and
00:33:04after the first shot she's wounded lying on the floor and she wouldn't have died from that shot
00:33:08either the doctors have said surely he should have realized what he's doing two more times he cocked that gun
00:33:16and fired it again
00:33:17and this is a bolt action gun and this is a bolt action 22 rifle so it's not like a
00:33:22semi-automatic where you just have to pull the trigger there was a manual requirement to reload that gun or
00:33:31you can probably just do it like that that's one bang
00:33:38so yeah there's a lot of
00:33:47yeah there is a lot in the child transcript about where abouts in the house the shooting occurred there's a
00:33:52map that's been provided as part of the evidence
00:33:55İzlediğiniz için teşekkür ederim.
00:34:26He was undoubtedly at all times a man of exceptional character and obvious good standing in the community.
00:34:34The prisoner's control of himself over a lengthy period ultimately snapped when his wife told him she could not give
00:34:41up her lover.
00:34:43In the circumstances, some response on his part would not have been unreasonable.
00:34:48However, to shoot the deceased three times was hardly proportionate to the devastating verbal message.
00:34:56It was greater than the circumstances warranted.
00:35:00In my view, the prisoner is unlikely to again offend against the law.
00:35:05The prisoner's strong subjective matters, unlike many other cases, provide the basis for specifying a non-parole period which will
00:35:14give him the opportunity of resuming his life in the community and with his children at a reasonably early time.
00:35:22Alan James Stuckey, on the charge on which the jury has convicted you, I sentence you to penal servitude for
00:35:31eight years.
00:35:31I specify a non-parole period of three years.
00:35:38She, like, sort of made me do it.
00:35:40She ran off, you know, went off with another man.
00:35:43Poor, it was all, poor me, poor me.
00:35:45I'm the victim here.
00:35:48Yeah, it makes me really furious, actually.
00:35:53I have difficulty reconciling the fact that this matter resulted in a conviction for manslaughter.
00:36:00I really do.
00:36:01But, of course, I have to accept the court's decision.
00:36:03That's the system of justice that we have in this country.
00:36:06Even though we don't have provocation defence available in most states in Australia anymore, we still see the same explanations.
00:36:17for why men acted the way they did in these cases.
00:36:21The provocation narrative can still be used to understand their actions when they're considering sentencing.
00:36:27I asked him one time, like, he said something about the fact that he'd never apologised to us.
00:36:33And he was like, I don't owe you or anyone an apology.
00:36:36Wow.
00:36:38The absence of the impact on the children is really striking as well.
00:36:45It felt like a real sense of, like, what's best for my father and really centred around him
00:36:51rather than thinking about us and the long-term impacts of the decisions that were made.
00:36:57And the actual conclusion of that drama was catastrophic for the children especially.
00:37:24So these are, um, letters that my dad wrote me when he was in prison.
00:37:30So I was probably about two or three years old.
00:37:35Those of them are, um, like, pictures of birds that my dad has drawn or trees.
00:37:47Dear Catherine, it is Sunday here as I am riding this and the weather is very poor.
00:37:52There is a big fog all over the camp and it is just so thick it is almost like rain.
00:37:58This is a kookaburra.
00:37:59See his big strong beak for eating meat?
00:38:02Sometimes they eat snakes and their song is just like a laugh.
00:38:06Love, Dad.
00:38:17My father served 22 months for killing my mother.
00:38:22On his release, my brothers and I went back to live with him.
00:38:26I was about four years old.
00:38:31I was appalled that he could be given custody of the children.
00:38:35I, I, I cannot understand how the court made an order that she was to live with her father.
00:38:44I really cannot understand that.
00:38:48So this is a picture of me in primary school.
00:38:54I excelled at school and I had a lot of friends and I enjoyed it.
00:38:59But it felt like a different world when I went home.
00:39:03I felt a real disconnect between what I was showing people and what I was experiencing internally.
00:39:13I wasn't allowed to talk about my mother.
00:39:19They weren't photos.
00:39:21They weren't stories.
00:39:23I didn't have any sense of who she was.
00:39:33The story that I was told was that she had done this awful thing.
00:39:40He had snapped and then he killed her and really framed as this sort of accident.
00:39:52I feel like there was a really significant shift in my relationship with my dad.
00:39:58When I went to high school, I really felt like I had become someone that he really didn't like.
00:40:08Where there was this sense of, like, entitlement and control.
00:40:12And that if you step outside of this little box that he's kind of put you in,
00:40:18then you become this huge disappointment and you're uncontrollable.
00:40:26I knew that I had to be a certain way, show that I was fine, even if I was suffering.
00:40:38Feeling like at any moment love will be withdrawn.
00:40:46I just remember bumping into her one day and I knew it was her birthday and I took her around
00:40:50to the cafe
00:40:51and we had nice chocolate and we had a chat.
00:40:56She told me that she understood that her mother was leaving her and the boys.
00:41:04And I just said, no, that's not true.
00:41:11And that's what her father had told her.
00:41:17Um, and I told her
00:41:22that there was no way her mother would have left her
00:41:25and the lies that she'd been told were just not right.
00:41:35When I was 16, I needed to get my passport and I needed to get a death certificate.
00:41:44And so it was the first time I actually had seen her cause of death, like, written down,
00:41:49which was something like the effects of a gunshot wound to the head,
00:41:53which was incredibly confronting for me at 16 because nobody had ever said that to me.
00:42:00They hadn't actually said, like, this is how she died.
00:42:03I remember that feeling of reading that death certificate
00:42:07and being really shocked at, I guess, the bluntness of it,
00:42:11but just also that that was what it was, you know,
00:42:16um, that my dad had shot her in the head.
00:42:20And that knowledge made me realise that I was unsafe, actually.
00:42:28Like, physically unsafe.
00:42:30And it's not, it's like I felt that before.
00:42:34But I had this example of, like, how far he could go.
00:42:38I felt scared of my dad at that time.
00:42:43And what he could do.
00:42:45Because I was also just living on my own with him at that point.
00:42:49My brothers had left home.
00:42:51And I think, why didn't anyone else, why didn't the adults, you know,
00:42:55ask some questions, check in, all of those things.
00:43:00It's not like people didn't know that that was fucking strange.
00:43:04That was a weird thing that we were growing up in the house
00:43:08that our mother was killed, with the man that killed her.
00:43:14I think there was an assumption that everything was fine.
00:43:19Everyone wanted it to be fine.
00:43:20So I thought, well, if I'm not fine, then something's wrong with me, not them.
00:43:28I started having nightmares about her death.
00:43:33Like, very graphic nightmares about, um, her being shot
00:43:37in this house that I was living in.
00:43:41And it was also just, like, my everyday house.
00:43:43You know, like, coming from school and making myself a snack.
00:43:47And, you know, sometimes I would watch something with my dad
00:43:50and it was funny and we'd laugh.
00:43:52And it was just my life.
00:43:54And it was also terrifying at times.
00:43:59Yeah.
00:44:09I knew that to have any sort of peace that I needed to leave Lismore.
00:44:16And I finished my last exam, packed up my stuff
00:44:21and one day when my dad was at work and just left.
00:44:28I actually don't remember saying goodbye to my dad at all.
00:44:32So I went to Sydney and moved in with my cousin, Elle, and the family.
00:44:40And we went to uni together at Sydney Uni.
00:44:44At some point, I got a job at Sydney Theatre Company and that's where I met Tanya.
00:44:52Catherine's my best friend, my former partner.
00:44:56We met in 2008.
00:44:59Neither of us had been in a queer relationship before,
00:45:01so our falling in love was a really beautiful time
00:45:06and also a complicated time.
00:45:07We had, like, a great crew of friends that we spent time with
00:45:10and saw a lot of art.
00:45:12We were super broke.
00:45:14But it was a beautiful kind of love story
00:45:19and then also, like, interwoven with a lot of trauma and pain, I guess.
00:45:26I felt like I would leave behind, like, everything that had happened
00:45:31and, um, including that feeling of, I guess, you know, depression.
00:45:39And I just assumed that that would go away
00:45:42once I was out of the house and away from my dad.
00:45:49And it didn't.
00:45:51In fact, it felt worse.
00:45:54I was more depressed.
00:45:56I was really depressed.
00:45:57I don't think I've ever seen Catherine asleep.
00:46:02and we were together for four years.
00:46:05Insomnia and nightmares were a big part of our life.
00:46:09They would sit bolt upright and they would be screaming.
00:46:14It was a guttural scream
00:46:17and they would be shaking, hyperventilating.
00:46:21It was just fear.
00:46:24Just...just fear.
00:46:26How anyone thought that he could raise those kids
00:46:29in the home where he killed Carolyn
00:46:32and then have one of them grow up
00:46:35with physical likeness to this person
00:46:37and for people not to think
00:46:39that there was going to be some problems there
00:46:43perplexes me.
00:46:44My father was still in regular contact with me
00:46:48and writing me letters that were pretty awful.
00:46:53Some days we would be going about our days
00:46:55in our tiny little apartment
00:46:56and it was like living with someone that wasn't there.
00:47:00Like, they were the closest person to me in the world
00:47:02so when they did disappear,
00:47:05it was difficult
00:47:09and I didn't know what to do.
00:47:12And it was during that time
00:47:15that I went through a lot of things in my life,
00:47:18a break-up with Tanya
00:47:21that brought a lot of grief
00:47:26and loss into my world.
00:47:30So I started going to therapy
00:47:33like really seriously for the first time
00:47:37and really started dealing with
00:47:41my childhood.
00:47:52So in 2013,
00:47:54I dropped my surname Stucky
00:47:56and I made my middle name
00:47:59my surname, which is Joy.
00:48:02And Joy was my mum's middle name.
00:48:05Part of it was not wanting
00:48:08to just be easily tracked down
00:48:10by my father.
00:48:12And then there was really embracing
00:48:14my mum and that side of the family.
00:48:38I always felt like
00:48:39I wasn't going to be around for very long.
00:48:44Like I was going to have a short life
00:48:47like my mum.
00:48:50I worked out how old she was
00:48:52when she was killed,
00:48:54which was 32 years,
00:48:57nine weeks and six days.
00:49:00And I worked out
00:49:01what date that will be for me.
00:49:03and it's the 27th of December, 2016.
00:49:09So I have a cut-off date in my head
00:49:11and I have about six months.
00:49:16I've always just assumed
00:49:17that I would die
00:49:19sometime before then.
00:49:35part of feeling like I'm not going to be here next year
00:49:39is not having a mother
00:49:43is not having a mother
00:49:43to kind of see what that looks like,
00:49:45what that next part looks like
00:49:47and getting older looks like
00:49:48and a lot of people look
00:49:49to their parents for that.
00:49:52But
00:49:54part of it, I think,
00:49:55is just that I
00:49:58feel like we're somehow
00:49:59the same person.
00:50:01and that's probably not
00:50:04the healthiest thing in the world.
00:50:15So it's like 2am
00:50:17or something
00:50:18and
00:50:20I can't sleep
00:50:21because
00:50:23I've never been able
00:50:24to take sleeping pills
00:50:25because they give me these
00:50:28nightmares.
00:50:29I feel like having
00:50:31them around
00:50:32is probably not a good idea.
00:50:34So
00:50:43I'm supposed to be at therapy
00:50:45today.
00:50:47I had to cancel it
00:50:48because
00:50:49I can't afford to go.
00:50:51Like I'm 32
00:50:53and I can't pay my rent.
00:50:58I think that's enough
00:50:59for today.
00:51:06I really didn't want
00:51:07to do this today
00:51:08because I feel
00:51:09awful
00:51:09and
00:51:14and I'm afraid of
00:51:18not coming out of it.
00:51:31Today is
00:51:32December 26th
00:51:35so
00:51:36tomorrow
00:51:38I will be
00:51:39the exact age
00:51:40that my mother was
00:51:41when she was killed.
00:52:07I will be
00:52:22So
00:52:23today is
00:52:24New Year's
00:52:25day
00:52:26and I'm alive
00:52:27so that's
00:52:30kind of strange.
00:52:32I've just realised
00:52:33how many people
00:52:34in my life
00:52:35are willing
00:52:36to help
00:52:38and it's a really
00:52:39beautiful thing
00:52:40so
00:52:41I guess
00:52:42just thinking about
00:52:43the next couple of months
00:52:44thinking about
00:52:45how I'm gonna
00:52:46survive
00:52:49and some of those things
00:52:50are just
00:52:51kind of practical things
00:52:53to do with
00:52:55work
00:52:55and
00:52:56finding
00:52:57another job
00:53:00I think
00:53:01I need to learn
00:53:01to drive
00:53:06I will
00:53:08I guess
00:53:12be back
00:53:12tomorrow
00:53:20for such a long time
00:53:23the only thing
00:53:25that I knew
00:53:26about my mum
00:53:27was the way
00:53:28that she died
00:53:31then that
00:53:32became
00:53:32my whole
00:53:34relationship
00:53:35with her
00:53:38it's been
00:53:39really important
00:53:40to me
00:53:40for her
00:53:41to exist
00:53:43as a person
00:53:44who lived
00:53:44and not
00:53:46just a person
00:53:48who was killed
00:53:53I decided
00:53:55that I wanted
00:53:56to
00:53:57write to some
00:53:58people
00:53:59and
00:53:59ask them
00:54:03what my mum
00:54:04was like
00:54:08so
00:54:09we're going
00:54:09to Brisbane
00:54:10to meet
00:54:12Anne McKinnon
00:54:13a friend
00:54:15of my mum's
00:54:16I'm excited
00:54:18because
00:54:18I never really
00:54:21knew what
00:54:22happened to her
00:54:23we couldn't
00:54:24get a lot
00:54:25of information
00:54:27we lost our
00:54:28friend
00:54:28but you don't
00:54:29know what
00:54:30happened to
00:54:30the children
00:54:32I probably
00:54:32never thought
00:54:33about it
00:54:33from the point
00:54:34of view
00:54:34of the child
00:54:36their feelings
00:54:37and what
00:54:38their lives
00:54:38turned out
00:54:39like
00:54:43when my mum
00:54:44was younger
00:54:45I think they
00:54:45studied together
00:54:47at Teachers College
00:54:48from what I know
00:54:49so
00:54:50it would be nice
00:54:51to hear about
00:54:53I guess
00:54:54those days
00:54:54before my mum
00:54:55was her mother
00:54:57too
00:54:57you know
00:54:58just her
00:54:58as a younger
00:54:59person
00:55:05may I hug you
00:55:07is that okay
00:55:07perfectly
00:55:08oh you
00:55:09beautiful girl
00:55:10I just want
00:55:10you to stand
00:55:11next to me
00:55:12like
00:55:13mum and I
00:55:14oh my goodness
00:55:15you're a little
00:55:16bit taller
00:55:17look
00:55:18wow
00:55:19that's going
00:55:20to the ball
00:55:21oh that's a
00:55:21beautiful picture
00:55:22oh we would
00:55:23have been 18
00:55:25wow
00:55:25god you like
00:55:26her
00:55:26oh my god
00:55:27so nice
00:55:28to see you
00:55:29so nice
00:55:30to see you
00:55:30so because we
00:55:31buddied up
00:55:32and we used
00:55:33to just
00:55:33wake up at
00:55:3410 to 9
00:55:35put the Levi's
00:55:36on and the
00:55:36gym boots
00:55:36and tuck her
00:55:37hair in and
00:55:38jump the fence
00:55:38and go to uni
00:55:39we had to go
00:55:409 to 5 in those
00:55:41days it was very
00:55:41regimented
00:55:42mark the roll
00:55:43you know
00:55:44and she started
00:55:45skipping
00:55:46I said you've
00:55:47got to come
00:55:47to social studies
00:55:48she goes
00:55:50oh yes
00:55:51I love this
00:55:52I love this
00:55:53because this is
00:55:53so neat
00:55:54and I said
00:55:54get up
00:55:55she goes
00:55:56no no no
00:55:56I can't be
00:55:56bothered
00:55:57I said
00:55:58no no no
00:55:58you'll fail
00:55:58and she did
00:56:00anyway
00:56:01she got through
00:56:02it
00:56:02she was messy
00:56:05I'm really messy
00:56:06do
00:56:06are you messy
00:56:08I'm so
00:56:08I'm so untidy
00:56:10you don't get
00:56:10eczema
00:56:11I do
00:56:11yes
00:56:11so did she
00:56:12yeah
00:56:13and this
00:56:15is a recipe
00:56:16that's mum
00:56:17that's mum's
00:56:18writing
00:56:18oh yes
00:56:19she had such
00:56:19neat writing
00:56:20Carolyn
00:56:21and that's
00:56:22rum cream
00:56:23I've got a
00:56:24copy of that
00:56:24so you have
00:56:24that
00:56:25amazing
00:56:25oh thank you
00:56:26you have that
00:56:27this is my
00:56:28little treasure
00:56:29trove
00:56:29I've got
00:56:29I'm going to
00:56:31veganise this
00:56:32recipe
00:56:32and make it
00:56:33well
00:56:34you keep all
00:56:35those
00:56:35thank you
00:56:36you know
00:56:37you're more
00:56:37than welcome
00:56:38it was so
00:56:38nice to meet
00:56:39you
00:56:39thank you so
00:56:40much
00:56:40it's just
00:56:40been wonderful
00:56:41and I really
00:56:42hope we can
00:56:43catch up again
00:56:43and stay in
00:56:44touch
00:56:44thank you
00:56:45give me a big
00:56:46hug
00:56:52I decided
00:56:53to get in
00:56:54touch
00:56:54with
00:56:54Alan
00:56:55Ennew
00:56:55who is
00:56:56the man
00:56:57my mother
00:56:58fell in
00:56:59love with
00:56:59had an
00:57:00affair with
00:57:00and ask
00:57:02some questions
00:57:03about my mum
00:57:05dear Catherine
00:57:08the first thing
00:57:08I should mention
00:57:09regarding our
00:57:10relationship is
00:57:11that while it
00:57:11started as an
00:57:12affair it
00:57:13developed into
00:57:13much more
00:57:15Carolyn was a
00:57:16very special
00:57:17person to me
00:57:18but not only
00:57:20to me but many
00:57:21friends she had
00:57:22and was and
00:57:23is sadly
00:57:25missed even
00:57:27after all this
00:57:27time
00:57:30I had also
00:57:31received a
00:57:32letter from
00:57:33Claire during
00:57:34that time
00:57:36she contacted
00:57:38me after she
00:57:40had heard that
00:57:41I'd reached out
00:57:41to her dad
00:57:42and we just
00:57:45became really
00:57:47good friends
00:57:48and such a
00:57:50big anchor
00:57:51for me
00:57:53while we
00:57:54didn't have
00:57:55the same
00:57:56experience
00:57:58there was so
00:57:59many things
00:58:00that were
00:58:01similar
00:58:01and there was
00:58:02just a real
00:58:03understanding
00:58:04of our families
00:58:05and that town
00:58:06and everything
00:58:07that happened
00:58:16I don't think
00:58:18I've ever
00:58:18really been
00:58:20around here
00:58:20much
00:58:22I feel like
00:58:24that name
00:58:24is in the
00:58:25trial
00:58:28so this is
00:58:29the house
00:58:30where my
00:58:31dad and
00:58:32your mum
00:58:33were planning
00:58:34on being
00:58:35together
00:58:36so dad
00:58:37bought this
00:58:37house
00:58:38thinking that
00:58:40you and your
00:58:41brothers would
00:58:42move in here
00:58:43and of course
00:58:44your mum
00:58:46this would
00:58:47have been
00:58:47your home
00:58:50and yours
00:58:51and mine
00:58:57yeah I mean
00:58:58I guess it's a
00:58:59different
00:59:00whole
00:59:01like
00:59:02life
00:59:03that
00:59:06could have
00:59:06been
00:59:10and that
00:59:11being
00:59:11taken away
00:59:14from her
00:59:15and from
00:59:15us
00:59:16and from
00:59:16all of us
00:59:30when you said
00:59:31that you used
00:59:31to think
00:59:32where are those
00:59:32people who were
00:59:33my mother's
00:59:33friends
00:59:34why aren't they
00:59:34helping me
00:59:35I just
00:59:36you know
00:59:37that was
00:59:37devastating
00:59:38to hear
00:59:38that
00:59:39I knew
00:59:39your father's
00:59:40animosity
00:59:40to anyone
00:59:41who was
00:59:42from
00:59:42that time
00:59:43but maybe
00:59:44we should
00:59:45have gone
00:59:45past that
00:59:46you know
00:59:46maybe
00:59:46that's
00:59:47you know
00:59:49I guess
00:59:50we were all
00:59:51looking after
00:59:52ourselves
00:59:52as well
00:59:53and we were
00:59:54afraid
00:59:55to
00:59:55you know
00:59:56I was scared
00:59:56to ask
00:59:57questions
00:59:57because I
00:59:58didn't know
00:59:58who to ask
00:59:59and like
00:59:59it was
00:59:59it was
01:00:00honestly
01:00:00like
01:00:01it had
01:00:01never
01:00:02happened
01:00:02but I
01:00:03just
01:00:03imagined
01:00:04that every
01:00:04time
01:00:04anywhere
01:00:05you went
01:00:06that
01:00:06you know
01:00:07people would
01:00:07have said
01:00:07oh
01:00:08you know
01:00:08I'm sure
01:00:09they did
01:00:09I mean
01:00:10that's the
01:00:10thing
01:00:10too
01:00:11growing up
01:00:12knowing
01:00:12that other
01:00:13people
01:00:13well not even
01:00:14knowing
01:00:14but feeling
01:00:15like people
01:00:16were talking
01:00:16about you
01:00:16all the time
01:00:17did you
01:00:18yeah
01:00:19you know
01:00:20we could
01:00:24handle
01:00:24anything
01:00:26but the
01:00:26silence
01:00:27yeah
01:00:27yes
01:00:31I hated
01:00:32that everyone
01:00:33always
01:00:34so careful
01:00:35I mean
01:00:36I know
01:00:36it was a
01:00:36protective
01:00:37thing
01:00:37but that
01:00:37yeah
01:00:38we
01:00:39it's like
01:00:39I've already
01:00:40lived through
01:00:41the worst
01:00:41of it
01:00:42this
01:00:42the worst
01:00:43yeah
01:00:43the worst
01:00:44part
01:00:44is not
01:00:45speaking
01:00:46about it
01:00:50so I went
01:00:51back to
01:00:52Banksy Court
01:00:53my old
01:00:55street
01:00:56that I grew
01:00:56up in
01:00:58but I was
01:00:59with Helen
01:01:00and Lyndall
01:01:01my two
01:01:02old
01:01:02neighbours
01:01:05wow
01:01:06how do you
01:01:07feel coming
01:01:08back and
01:01:08have you been
01:01:09back before
01:01:11I think
01:01:11I've driven
01:01:12past once
01:01:13in the last
01:01:14you know
01:01:1420 years
01:01:15or something
01:01:15but I haven't
01:01:16kind of
01:01:16stood here
01:01:17and
01:01:17yeah
01:01:21it's
01:01:22hard
01:01:25yeah
01:01:26I remember
01:01:27it being a
01:01:27really dark
01:01:28house growing
01:01:28up
01:01:28I mean
01:01:29I don't
01:01:29know if
01:01:29that was
01:01:29my state
01:01:30of mind
01:01:30but the
01:01:31house itself
01:01:32felt really
01:01:33dark house
01:01:33yeah
01:01:33yeah
01:01:34and the
01:01:35curtains
01:01:36were always
01:01:36closed
01:01:37did you notice
01:01:38the difference
01:01:39between like
01:01:40when my mum
01:01:40was there
01:01:41and after
01:01:41like did it
01:01:42feel very
01:01:43different
01:01:43I remember
01:01:44being here
01:01:45to look
01:01:45after your
01:01:45brothers
01:01:46Catherine
01:01:46when your
01:01:47dad took
01:01:47you
01:01:48as a little
01:01:48baby
01:01:49and I just
01:01:50was sitting
01:01:50in the
01:01:50house
01:01:51just feeling
01:01:51the enormity
01:01:52of what
01:01:53had happened
01:01:54and how
01:01:55dark
01:01:56and you know
01:01:57your mum
01:01:58was always
01:01:58vibrant
01:01:59and there'd
01:02:00be snacks
01:02:00and lots
01:02:00of activity
01:02:01happening
01:02:01and giggling
01:02:02and the
01:02:03sense was
01:02:04just that
01:02:04huge contrast
01:02:05between
01:02:08you know
01:02:08this is now
01:02:09and here on
01:02:10and
01:02:11but I think
01:02:12now we get
01:02:13to grieve
01:02:14that
01:02:15whereas back
01:02:16then we
01:02:16didn't
01:02:16because we
01:02:17didn't know
01:02:18how
01:02:28there she is
01:02:29oh there she is
01:02:34I feel really
01:02:35angry about
01:02:36the fact that
01:02:36it says
01:02:36passed away
01:02:37I was just
01:02:38looking at that
01:02:39it just makes
01:02:39me really mad
01:02:40because he
01:02:41did this
01:02:44she'll always
01:02:45be older
01:02:45than me
01:02:47I'm 52
01:02:48and I still
01:02:48look at
01:02:48Caroline
01:02:49as
01:02:50oh no
01:02:51isn't that
01:02:51strange
01:02:53your mum
01:02:54read this
01:02:54to you
01:02:55when you're
01:02:55a baby
01:02:57I carry
01:02:57I carry your
01:02:58heart with me
01:02:59I carry it
01:03:00in my heart
01:03:00I am never
01:03:02without it
01:03:03anywhere I
01:03:04go
01:03:04you go
01:03:05my dear
01:03:06and whatever
01:03:07is done
01:03:07by only me
01:03:08is your
01:03:09doing my
01:03:10darling
01:03:10I fear
01:03:12no fate
01:03:13for you
01:03:14are my fate
01:03:15my sweet
01:03:16I want
01:03:18no world
01:03:19for beautiful
01:03:20you are my
01:03:21world
01:03:21my true
01:03:22I carry
01:03:24your heart
01:03:24I carry
01:03:26it in my
01:03:27heart
01:03:35I love you so much
01:03:40the three of you
01:03:41so so much
01:03:57I had been
01:03:58having these
01:03:58thoughts about
01:03:59doing a memorial
01:04:00for my mum
01:04:04make a space
01:04:05for all of us
01:04:06to talk a bit
01:04:06more about her
01:04:07and have some
01:04:08ritual around it
01:04:10I felt like
01:04:11I needed that
01:04:12like a grief
01:04:13ritual
01:04:14and
01:04:15and I felt
01:04:17like other
01:04:17people did too
01:04:23Catherine wanted
01:04:23to do something
01:04:24in Lismore
01:04:25to bring together
01:04:26friends and family
01:04:27to honour
01:04:28Carolyn
01:04:30they ended up
01:04:31finding this
01:04:32outdoor cathedral
01:04:33which is so
01:04:34beautiful
01:04:34and yeah
01:04:35really
01:04:35connected
01:04:37Catherine's
01:04:38kind of
01:04:38environmental
01:04:39spirituality
01:04:40and Carolyn's
01:04:41faith
01:05:03so many people
01:05:05really
01:05:06were just
01:05:07waiting for me
01:05:07to ask
01:05:08you know
01:05:08like really
01:05:09actually wanted
01:05:09the opportunity
01:05:10to speak
01:05:11about her
01:05:11hi
01:05:12how are you
01:05:13going
01:05:13this is my daughter
01:05:13nice to meet you
01:05:15how are you
01:05:16good to see you
01:05:16this is the first photo
01:05:18of Catherine's mother
01:05:19so Karen would have been
01:05:21around four to five
01:05:24oh
01:05:25it's a beautiful photo
01:05:26Catherine did an amazing job
01:05:29of organising the memorial
01:05:31she got
01:05:32all sorts of people
01:05:34came together
01:05:34people that I hadn't seen
01:05:36for years
01:05:36were there
01:05:38that made it
01:05:39emotional
01:05:39because we knew
01:05:40why we were there
01:05:41it was also
01:05:44a real time
01:05:45of connection
01:05:45and beauty
01:05:46and community
01:05:49and it was amazing
01:05:51and it was so cathartic
01:05:53for all of us there
01:05:55emotion was so raw
01:05:56so real
01:05:58it was as if
01:05:59it was a week
01:06:00after something
01:06:00had happened
01:06:01and I'll never forget it
01:06:05I just wanted to welcome
01:06:06everyone here
01:06:07probably all know
01:06:08it's Carolyn's birthday today
01:06:09and
01:06:10I feel like maybe
01:06:12if she were here
01:06:12she would put on
01:06:13some spectacular dinner party
01:06:15she would print out menus
01:06:16her attention to detail
01:06:18I have heard
01:06:19was pretty spot on
01:06:21Carolyn
01:06:22your death
01:06:23came before the
01:06:24groundswell change
01:06:25of public outrage
01:06:26at the incidents
01:06:27of domestic violence
01:06:28that blight our community
01:06:30even now
01:06:3130 years later
01:06:32I find it difficult
01:06:33to speak without
01:06:34being a little bit
01:06:35of a lump in the throat
01:06:36and today
01:06:36is pleasure
01:06:38for me as well
01:06:39and I just
01:06:40am so happy
01:06:41and so pleased
01:06:42to see you
01:06:43the embodiment
01:06:45of your mother
01:06:46and with
01:06:47the approach
01:06:48to life
01:06:49that I think
01:06:50she would be
01:06:50very very proud of
01:06:51I've been trying
01:06:52to put words
01:06:53to how I feel
01:06:53about my mother
01:06:54my whole life
01:06:56the feeling
01:06:57of being part
01:06:57of her
01:06:58and her me
01:06:59but also
01:07:00the absence
01:07:01of something
01:07:02missing
01:07:04happy anniversary
01:07:05of your birth
01:07:06Carolyn Joy
01:07:08you have lived
01:07:09in my heart
01:07:10and mind
01:07:10and body
01:07:11since the very
01:07:12first moment
01:07:12I took breath
01:07:14and you will be
01:07:15there until the last
01:07:18and in that way
01:07:19you have lived
01:07:19far longer
01:07:20than your 32 years
01:07:27and yours
01:07:50you could
01:07:51take home
01:07:51you will see
01:07:51there
01:07:51there
01:07:51there
01:07:51and then
01:11:08İzlediğiniz için teşekkür ederim.
01:11:38That's where I go, well, I can't just be doing inferior work.
01:11:45I feel like if you're going to live in this world, you have to do something.
01:11:52I love the concept of killjoys, or feminist killjoys, specifically.
01:11:59Sara Ahmed, who is an amazing thinker and writer, and she coined this term.
01:12:08People who are willing to sort of not stay quiet about injustice.
01:12:15But I have been called a killjoy, and I embrace that.
01:12:19I think it's a good thing.
01:12:35I'm not here now as like some healed human.
01:12:43It's ongoing.
01:12:46It's always kind of navigating my mental health and experiences and trauma.
01:12:58Being almost 40 now, and realising that my mum only got to 32.
01:13:06For me, my 30s have just been such a huge time of understanding myself, and she didn't really get that
01:13:15time.
01:13:18I think if I could speak to my mum now, I would tell her I loved her.
01:13:29And let her know that my life is like so full.
01:13:44I don't just have to tolerate being sort of okay.
01:13:51You know, I'm actually allowed to feel good.
01:13:59I'm in a new place where I feel like I might actually live for a while.
01:14:03I mean, who knows?
01:14:04Who knows what will happen?
01:14:34I'm in a new place where I'm in a new place where I think we're going to feel good.
01:14:35So, she's really good.
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