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00:01:47I knew that every person that I ever met was eventually going to ask me where my mum was
00:01:55and I dreaded it because I didn't want to have to explain the whole situation
00:02:05and I felt a lot of shame around it
00:02:08just having to deal with other people's reactions or responses or opinions
00:02:13hold their anger, confusion, disgust, pain, surprise, awkwardness or their silence
00:02:23sometimes I would make things up
00:02:25I would just say a different cause of death that seemed like simpler
00:02:34there's some way between I don't want to talk about it and just lying about the way she died
00:02:41but the truth is my dad killed my mum
00:02:47I was three months old
00:03:05my life was just always in the shadow of this horrible tragedy
00:03:19because I was never told anything
00:03:21I've always wanted to know what happened, how it happened, why it happened
00:03:29to keep knowing until somehow I can make it better
00:03:36I would never want this to happen to anybody
00:03:42but I am who I am because of it
00:04:02I came to know Carolyn probably about two, well about two years before all of this happened
00:04:08my name is Jill Brodie
00:04:11I met Carolyn when I was in my late 20s
00:04:15and she was a wonderful teacher, amazing musician, kind
00:04:21and of course physically she was so beautiful
00:04:25my name's Vicki Sheaf, I was a good friend of Carolyn Stuckey
00:04:32in our late 20s, early 30s
00:04:37and now I'm sitting here at 71
00:04:41yeah, we got scholarships to go to Teachers College
00:04:44and we developed a very strong friendship
00:04:46and we just clicked
00:04:48she was teaching our children at the time
00:04:50and they had known her all their short lives
00:04:55and were very fond of her
00:04:57I can remember my son aged five saying
00:05:00I love Mrs Stuckey mum
00:05:01you know, and he meant it
00:05:05I think she loved children
00:05:07I think, you know
00:05:08you probably don't become a school teacher
00:05:10if you don't love children
00:05:12she says I'm going to go, you know, into Miss Lismore
00:05:15and I thought, oh, good on you, you know
00:05:18and next thing, she's in the paper
00:05:20and she's won
00:05:22this one
00:05:25is where she was announced
00:05:29Miss Lismore
00:05:31and there's Jackie Weaver down there
00:05:34and some guys going
00:05:37in the background
00:05:38it was a big thing
00:05:39it was real prestigious
00:05:40to be, you know, Miss Lismore
00:05:43oh yeah
00:05:44you were special
00:05:45so yeah, she would have been
00:05:47easily recognisable
00:05:49definitely
00:05:51she was the sort of woman
00:05:52that people would turn around
00:05:54and look at
00:05:54but she was oblivious to her beauty
00:05:56she was oblivious
00:05:58to the effect she had on people
00:06:01I was with Carolyn
00:06:03at the Lismore Workers Club
00:06:04and it was a Wednesday night
00:06:06when she met her husband
00:06:08Alan Stuckey
00:06:09I don't know whether he owned the pharmacy
00:06:10but he was certainly the principal
00:06:12in the pharmacy in Lismore
00:06:14and he was eight years older
00:06:16so he was well placed
00:06:18but we were only 18
00:06:20you know, we're going
00:06:21who's this dude, you know
00:06:23who's this dude coming over here
00:06:26she was there for the picking, wasn't she
00:06:29she's a pretty little thing
00:06:30big blue eyes, blonde hair
00:06:33easily
00:06:35easily won over
00:06:36I would say
00:06:38this one is
00:06:40the two of them
00:06:42and my dad's
00:06:43sister
00:06:44at their wedding
00:06:48I mean
00:06:49the first thing I think is
00:06:51those sideburns were
00:06:52quite
00:06:53quite a statement
00:06:57yeah
00:06:58I mean look
00:06:58it's a bit strange
00:07:00to look at wedding photos
00:07:02of them
00:07:05there's a lot of like
00:07:06hope and promise
00:07:07in that moment
00:07:08of a future
00:07:10that
00:07:12would look
00:07:13a lot different
00:07:14than it turned out to look
00:07:23her marriage to
00:07:25Alan Stuckey
00:07:26they just didn't
00:07:27to me
00:07:27and to a lot of people
00:07:29didn't seem to
00:07:32mash together
00:07:33he was into tennis
00:07:35big way
00:07:36but yeah
00:07:37that wasn't her thing
00:07:38at all
00:07:39no
00:07:39she's more literary
00:07:41and arty
00:07:42and music
00:07:42and you know
00:07:44different
00:07:45yeah they were
00:07:46chalk and cheese really
00:07:47when you analyse it
00:07:48like that
00:07:49the Lismore Theatre Club
00:07:51was
00:07:54a very
00:07:55kind of vibrant
00:07:56community
00:07:59I think it was
00:08:00a place
00:08:00where
00:08:01a lot of people
00:08:02could kind of
00:08:03have some fun
00:08:04and have this
00:08:05social connection
00:08:08most of our friends
00:08:09at that time
00:08:10belonged to the Theatre Club
00:08:11and Carolyn
00:08:13had never previously
00:08:14been in the Theatre Club
00:08:15but I think she envied
00:08:17the fun
00:08:18we had
00:08:18and so
00:08:20she auditioned
00:08:21is it
00:08:23cool
00:08:24being a ghost
00:08:24no I don't think so
00:08:26what happens
00:08:28if I punch you
00:08:29I doubt if you can
00:08:30do you want to
00:08:31oh well Vera
00:08:32Life Spirit
00:08:33is a play
00:08:34written by
00:08:35Noel Coward
00:08:35it's about a man
00:08:37who is haunted
00:08:38by the ghost
00:08:39of his dead wife
00:08:40the ghost
00:08:41is played
00:08:42by my mum
00:08:42Carolyn
00:08:43you are here
00:08:44aren't you
00:08:44you're not an illusion
00:08:45I may be an illusion
00:08:47but I'm most
00:08:48definitely here
00:08:49and her husband
00:08:50is played by
00:08:51Alan Enu
00:08:52you must promise me
00:08:54that in future
00:08:54you'll only come and talk to me
00:08:56when I'm alone
00:08:56my dear
00:08:58madame
00:08:58I'm afraid
00:09:00I'm wrong
00:09:00and also in this play
00:09:02was Alan's
00:09:04wife
00:09:04Madeline
00:09:05who is playing
00:09:07a psychic
00:09:08I may have to go
00:09:09into a slight
00:09:10transfer
00:09:11if I do
00:09:11pay your attention
00:09:42I may have to go
00:09:43the last time
00:09:44I was here
00:09:46was when
00:09:47Bligh's Spirit
00:09:48was a production
00:09:58this dad
00:10:00it's a very typical
00:10:02dad in theatre club
00:10:03look
00:10:04there's mum
00:10:08you know
00:10:08my dad loved
00:10:09this place
00:10:09he loved acting
00:10:10and mum did too
00:10:12she was a good actor
00:10:15there's a program there
00:10:18who's in it
00:10:21and then
00:10:23a bunch of photos
00:10:24so
00:10:26it's this one
00:10:27there's a couple
00:10:28like this
00:10:29with dad
00:10:29and Caroline
00:10:31just this moment
00:10:33caught
00:10:33where they're looking
00:10:34at each other
00:10:34and I
00:10:36I just go
00:10:37yeah
00:10:39you know
00:10:40that's the sort of vibe
00:10:41that my mum
00:10:41would have got hold of
00:10:45because the emotions
00:10:47were real
00:10:47right
00:10:48they weren't just
00:10:49acting
00:10:54I don't know
00:10:55all the details
00:10:56of
00:10:57what went on there
00:10:58but
00:10:59definitely a relationship
00:11:00was developing
00:11:02and a friendship
00:11:03and an attraction
00:11:04silliest thing
00:11:05I ever did
00:11:06in my whole life
00:11:07was to love you
00:11:07they say a grand passion
00:11:09is like an insanity
00:11:10and it was
00:11:11for both of them
00:11:12I came because
00:11:14the power
00:11:14of Charles's love
00:11:16tugged and tugged
00:11:17and tugged
00:11:18that he
00:11:19didn't take my sleep
00:11:22yes
00:11:23there was a lot
00:11:23of sneaking around
00:11:25which happens
00:11:26in an affair
00:11:26but lots of presents
00:11:28and flowers
00:11:29and gifts
00:11:31I did have to
00:11:32keep a secret
00:11:34I could see
00:11:35how happy
00:11:35they both were
00:11:36I mean
00:11:37I cared deeply
00:11:38for Madeline
00:11:39as well
00:11:39so that was
00:11:40very difficult
00:11:42the risks
00:11:43that Alan
00:11:44Inu and Carolyn
00:11:45took
00:11:46the notes
00:11:47that were left
00:11:47on the telegraph pole
00:11:48at the end of the road
00:11:50on her car
00:11:51I saw one
00:11:52at the supermarket
00:11:53when I was there
00:11:54one day
00:11:54walked past her car
00:11:55and there was
00:11:56one of these notes
00:11:57my dearest
00:11:58most precious Carolyn
00:12:00I love you
00:12:03you are a wonderful man
00:12:05kind
00:12:06thoughtful
00:12:08understanding
00:12:10I love the thoughts
00:12:11of our ultimate
00:12:12togetherness
00:12:12which I now see
00:12:13is inevitable
00:12:15Alan Inu
00:12:16had moved out
00:12:17of his home
00:12:18and had rendered
00:12:21a little flat
00:12:22Madeline
00:12:23wasn't coping
00:12:24at all
00:12:25she lost a lot
00:12:26of weight
00:12:26very quickly
00:12:29I remember
00:12:30one day
00:12:30she told me
00:12:31she was going
00:12:31to kill herself
00:12:33I said
00:12:34oh you know
00:12:35you can't do that
00:12:35her two boys
00:12:36were at university
00:12:37in Sydney
00:12:38her daughter
00:12:39Claire
00:12:40was 18
00:12:41she said
00:12:42she couldn't
00:12:43be jilted
00:12:43she couldn't
00:12:44be left
00:12:45on her own
00:12:45as
00:12:47someone left
00:12:47for the younger
00:12:48person
00:12:49she couldn't
00:12:49deal with
00:12:50that humiliation
00:12:51and I spoke
00:12:52to my GP
00:12:53and he said
00:12:54what people
00:12:54used to say
00:12:55in those days
00:12:55he said
00:12:56if they talk
00:12:56about it
00:12:57they don't
00:12:57do it
00:12:59and he was
00:13:00a well-meaning
00:13:01man
00:13:01but
00:13:02that was wrong
00:13:05Alan found
00:13:06the body
00:13:06and she'd
00:13:07organised
00:13:07so that Claire
00:13:08wasn't home
00:13:09that night
00:13:10and sure enough
00:13:11everything in the
00:13:12house was
00:13:13tip top
00:13:15food
00:13:15was made
00:13:16for her own
00:13:17funeral
00:13:21in her
00:13:22letter to me
00:13:23because she
00:13:24wrote suicide
00:13:24letters
00:13:25she told me
00:13:26not to blame
00:13:27my father
00:13:27and honestly
00:13:28I don't
00:13:29I don't
00:13:30blame anyone
00:13:31in this story
00:13:32it's just
00:13:33really hard
00:13:35being the
00:13:36the child
00:13:38of that story
00:13:39you know
00:13:41it's all
00:13:42very tragic
00:13:43to think
00:13:44about the fact
00:13:45that these
00:13:46two women
00:13:46in this play
00:13:47are now
00:13:48dead
00:13:48in the ways
00:13:50that they
00:13:50died
00:13:56Carolyn was
00:13:57she was
00:13:58devastated
00:13:59by it
00:14:00and felt
00:14:01incredible
00:14:02guilt
00:14:03I would say
00:14:04that Alan
00:14:04knew
00:14:05he was very
00:14:07sad about
00:14:07Madeline
00:14:08and it was a
00:14:08traumatic and
00:14:09hideous thing
00:14:10that happened
00:14:10and he found
00:14:11her
00:14:13but
00:14:13he was so
00:14:15obsessed
00:14:15with the fact
00:14:16that one day
00:14:17Carolyn would
00:14:17come to him
00:14:18and so he
00:14:19bought
00:14:19this big house
00:14:21that was going
00:14:22to be the home
00:14:22with lots of
00:14:23bedrooms so that
00:14:24they could have
00:14:24all their children
00:14:25there eventually
00:14:26at times
00:14:27that was his idea
00:14:28no one wanted
00:14:29to be divorced
00:14:30no one wanted
00:14:30to leave their
00:14:31husband
00:14:31because there was
00:14:32a lot of stigma
00:14:33in the community
00:14:35not today
00:14:36but back in the
00:14:3770s
00:14:37dead right
00:14:38and 80s
00:14:39if she left
00:14:41the marriage
00:14:41she was concerned
00:14:43what
00:14:44I guess
00:14:45the parents
00:14:46of her students
00:14:47the church
00:14:48she felt
00:14:49enormous shame
00:14:51for going
00:14:52against what
00:14:53she'd been taught
00:14:53as far as
00:14:54her religion
00:14:54was concerned
00:14:56religion was a
00:14:57big part
00:14:57of growing up
00:14:58in the 50s
00:14:59and 60s
00:14:59huge
00:15:00you know
00:15:01everybody
00:15:01it was rare
00:15:02for a family
00:15:03not to go to
00:15:03church
00:15:06when she told
00:15:07us that
00:15:07Alan Stuckey
00:15:08had found out
00:15:09I thought
00:15:10right now
00:15:10something will
00:15:11happen now
00:15:12either she will
00:15:13stay with him
00:15:14or she'll go
00:15:14with Alan Enu
00:15:15but at least
00:15:16it's not this
00:15:17terrible dangerous
00:15:18game that they
00:15:19were still playing
00:15:22you've distanced
00:15:23yourself and
00:15:24made me resentful
00:15:25by taunting me
00:15:25with Alan Enu
00:15:28if you do not
00:15:29love me
00:15:29then I cannot
00:15:31go on to even
00:15:32try to work
00:15:33things out
00:15:35my mum decided
00:15:36to stay
00:15:36with my dad
00:15:38and he
00:15:40made her
00:15:41swear on the
00:15:42bible and he
00:15:43wrote vows
00:15:44for her to
00:15:44take
00:15:49I swear never
00:15:50to say or do
00:15:51anything again
00:15:52to hurt you
00:15:54I swear never
00:15:55to lie to my
00:15:56husband Alan
00:15:57ever again
00:15:59I swear that
00:16:01the affair is
00:16:01over completely
00:16:02and that I
00:16:04will never do
00:16:04anything directly
00:16:05or indirectly
00:16:07to have any
00:16:08type of
00:16:08relationship with
00:16:09him again
00:16:10I swear to
00:16:12love
00:16:13honour and
00:16:14cherish you
00:16:15for the rest
00:16:16of my days
00:16:18I asked her
00:16:20if she was
00:16:21worried for her
00:16:21own safety
00:16:23and she said
00:16:24no
00:16:24no
00:16:25she said I'm
00:16:26not but I am
00:16:27worried
00:16:28what he might
00:16:29do to Alan
00:16:29Enu
00:16:31Alan
00:16:33if you should
00:16:33have any
00:16:34thoughts of
00:16:34trying to
00:16:35rekindle the
00:16:35relationship
00:16:36or even
00:16:37getting in
00:16:37touch with
00:16:38her in any
00:16:38way
00:16:38then I will
00:16:39tell you
00:16:40now
00:16:40you will
00:16:41join your
00:16:41wife
00:16:45but she
00:16:45was very
00:16:46unhappy
00:16:48she
00:16:49well she
00:16:50just had a
00:16:50baby
00:16:53it must have
00:16:54been so
00:16:55stressful for
00:16:55her and she
00:16:56had two
00:16:57little boys
00:16:57as well
00:17:03my darling
00:17:04Alan
00:17:06to choose
00:17:06to go to
00:17:07you meant
00:17:08a disruption
00:17:08of a family
00:17:09gossip
00:17:10and talk
00:17:11about the
00:17:11cause of
00:17:12Madeline's
00:17:12death
00:17:15to stay
00:17:16with Alan
00:17:16meant
00:17:17unbearable
00:17:18pain for
00:17:19you
00:17:20for me
00:17:21it meant
00:17:21an ache
00:17:22inside
00:17:22which I
00:17:23know
00:17:23will be
00:17:23with me
00:17:24every day
00:17:25for the
00:17:25rest of
00:17:25my life
00:17:28she'd
00:17:29supposedly
00:17:29broken off
00:17:30with Alan
00:17:30he knew
00:17:30it was
00:17:31over
00:17:31suddenly
00:17:32she was
00:17:33seeing him
00:17:33again
00:17:34and I
00:17:34said
00:17:34Alan
00:17:35Stuckey
00:17:36will not
00:17:37let her
00:17:38go without
00:17:38a fight
00:17:39we always
00:17:40knew
00:17:40that he
00:17:43was a
00:17:43man who
00:17:44would not
00:17:46be able
00:17:46to accept
00:17:47it
00:17:47like a lot
00:17:48of people
00:17:49I suppose
00:17:52and then
00:17:52he puts
00:17:53a private
00:17:53detective
00:17:53on her
00:17:54good
00:17:55god
00:17:55she
00:17:56thought
00:17:56Alan
00:17:57Stuckey
00:17:57had
00:17:59been
00:17:59having
00:17:59her
00:18:00followed
00:18:00I
00:18:01think
00:18:01she
00:18:01said
00:18:01a
00:18:02little
00:18:02grey
00:18:02Volkswagen
00:18:03I
00:18:03think
00:18:03I'm
00:18:04being
00:18:04followed
00:18:05and
00:18:06to
00:18:07which
00:18:07I
00:18:08just
00:18:08thought
00:18:08oh my
00:18:09god
00:18:09where's
00:18:09that
00:18:09going
00:18:10to
00:18:10go
00:18:10there's
00:18:11absolutely
00:18:12no
00:18:12excuse
00:18:13for
00:18:13that
00:18:13behaviour
00:18:14monitoring
00:18:14someone's
00:18:15movements
00:18:16is
00:18:16a huge
00:18:17indicator
00:18:17of
00:18:18family
00:18:18violence
00:18:18of
00:18:19coercive
00:18:19control
00:18:20find
00:18:20it
00:18:20really
00:18:21disturbing
00:18:21that
00:18:22he
00:18:22did
00:18:22that
00:18:22he
00:18:23felt
00:18:23justified
00:18:24in
00:18:24doing
00:18:24that
00:18:39my
00:18:40darling
00:18:40I'm going
00:18:42to ask
00:18:42you again
00:18:43for the
00:18:43complete
00:18:44peace of
00:18:44mind
00:18:45have you
00:18:46had any
00:18:47contact
00:18:47since
00:18:48your
00:18:48vows
00:18:49I
00:18:50beg
00:18:50you
00:18:50I
00:18:51implore
00:18:52you
00:18:52do
00:18:52not
00:18:53tell
00:18:53me
00:18:53a
00:18:53lie
00:18:55it
00:18:55is
00:18:55the
00:18:55most
00:18:56important
00:18:56question
00:18:57you
00:18:57will
00:18:57ever
00:18:57answer
00:19:01all
00:19:01I
00:19:01know
00:19:02is
00:19:02I
00:19:02love
00:19:03you
00:19:03more
00:19:03than
00:19:03anything
00:19:05Alan
00:19:05Alan
00:19:06Alan
00:19:09I
00:19:10happened
00:19:10to be
00:19:10in
00:19:11the
00:19:11station
00:19:11on
00:19:11the
00:19:1231st
00:19:12of
00:19:12January
00:19:121985
00:19:14when
00:19:15the
00:19:15phone
00:19:16rang
00:19:16and
00:19:17I
00:19:17answered
00:19:18it
00:19:18there was
00:19:19a
00:19:19male
00:19:19voice
00:19:20on
00:19:20the
00:19:20other
00:19:20end
00:19:21of
00:19:21the
00:19:21phone
00:19:21very
00:19:22calmly
00:19:23said
00:19:23it's
00:19:24Alan
00:19:24Stuckey
00:19:25from
00:19:26Five
00:19:26Banksia
00:19:27Court
00:19:27Lisbon
00:19:28Heights
00:19:30and
00:19:30I
00:19:30said
00:19:30yes
00:19:31Alan
00:19:31how
00:19:32can
00:19:32we
00:19:32help
00:19:32you
00:19:33and
00:19:33he
00:19:34said
00:19:34you'd
00:19:34better
00:19:35come
00:19:35up
00:19:35I've
00:19:36just
00:19:36shot
00:19:36my
00:19:36wife
00:19:37you
00:19:38know
00:19:38when
00:19:38you
00:19:38did
00:19:38your
00:19:38training
00:19:39at
00:19:39the
00:19:39police
00:19:39academy
00:19:39one
00:19:40of
00:19:40the
00:19:41things
00:19:41that
00:19:41I
00:19:41do
00:19:41remember
00:19:42very
00:19:42clearly
00:19:42that
00:19:43they
00:19:43instilled
00:19:43in
00:19:44young
00:19:44police
00:19:45was
00:19:45that
00:19:47domestic
00:19:47violence
00:19:48incidents
00:19:48attending
00:19:49those
00:19:50was
00:19:50the
00:19:50most
00:19:50dangerous
00:19:51situation
00:19:51that
00:19:52we
00:19:52would
00:19:52go
00:19:53to
00:19:55of
00:19:55course
00:19:56you
00:19:56know
00:19:56I
00:19:56was
00:19:57anxious
00:19:58approaching
00:19:59the
00:19:59house
00:19:59under
00:20:00those
00:20:00circumstances
00:20:01and
00:20:01you
00:20:01know
00:20:01we
00:20:02went
00:20:03into
00:20:03the
00:20:03house
00:20:03and
00:20:04Alan
00:20:05Stuckey
00:20:05was
00:20:05sitting
00:20:06in
00:20:07the
00:20:07kitchen
00:20:07at
00:20:07a
00:20:07bench
00:20:08he
00:20:09was
00:20:09just
00:20:09sitting
00:20:09there
00:20:09calmly
00:20:11sipping
00:20:12coffee
00:20:12from a
00:20:13mug
00:20:14as
00:20:14though
00:20:15nothing
00:20:16had
00:20:16happened
00:20:16it
00:20:17was
00:20:17yeah
00:20:18it was
00:20:18quite
00:20:19surreal
00:20:24I
00:20:25walked
00:20:25into
00:20:25the
00:20:25main
00:20:26bedroom
00:20:27and
00:20:27there
00:20:28was
00:20:28a
00:20:28double
00:20:28bed
00:20:29to
00:20:29the
00:20:29right
00:20:30at
00:20:30the
00:20:30foot
00:20:31of
00:20:31the
00:20:31bed
00:20:32was
00:20:32a
00:20:33female
00:20:34person
00:20:35it
00:20:36was
00:20:36quite
00:20:36shocking
00:20:37obviously
00:20:37what
00:20:38had
00:20:38happened
00:20:39to
00:20:39start
00:20:39with
00:20:39but
00:20:40also
00:20:40having
00:20:40the
00:20:41you know
00:20:42the
00:20:42three
00:20:42children
00:20:43in
00:20:44the
00:20:44house
00:20:44at the
00:20:45time
00:20:45and
00:20:46yeah
00:20:47by
00:20:48good
00:20:48fortune
00:20:50perhaps
00:20:50nothing
00:20:51happened
00:20:51to them
00:20:52at the
00:20:53time
00:20:54I
00:20:55was
00:20:55teaching
00:20:55down
00:20:56the
00:20:56other
00:20:56end
00:20:57of
00:20:57the
00:20:57peninsula
00:20:57here
00:20:58I
00:20:58had
00:20:58on
00:20:58the
00:20:58playground
00:20:59on
00:20:59duty
00:20:59and
00:21:00my
00:21:00husband
00:21:00pulled
00:21:00up
00:21:00I
00:21:01said
00:21:01what
00:21:01are
00:21:01you
00:21:02doing
00:21:02here
00:21:02he
00:21:02said
00:21:02I
00:21:03got
00:21:03terrible
00:21:04news
00:21:04to
00:21:05tell
00:21:05you
00:21:05I
00:21:06turned
00:21:06the
00:21:06radio
00:21:07on
00:21:07next
00:21:08to
00:21:08the
00:21:08bed
00:21:09and
00:21:10it
00:21:10said
00:21:12that
00:21:12a
00:21:1332
00:21:14year
00:21:14old
00:21:14small
00:21:15woman
00:21:15had
00:21:15been
00:21:16shot
00:21:16dead
00:21:16overnight
00:21:17police
00:21:18were
00:21:19at
00:21:19the
00:21:19scene
00:21:19in
00:21:20Goodellaba
00:21:21and
00:21:22we
00:21:22knew
00:21:22it
00:21:25was
00:21:25fairly
00:21:26hysterical
00:21:26in our
00:21:27house
00:21:27we
00:21:28were
00:21:28incredibly
00:21:28upset
00:21:29Alan
00:21:30had
00:21:30killed
00:21:30Carolyn
00:21:31and
00:21:32as a
00:21:33child
00:21:34I
00:21:34just
00:21:34had
00:21:35no
00:21:35concept
00:21:36of
00:21:36what
00:21:36that
00:21:37how
00:21:38that
00:21:38could
00:21:38happen
00:21:39I
00:21:39can
00:21:39still
00:21:40remember
00:21:40the
00:21:40feeling
00:21:41and
00:21:41thinking
00:21:41oh
00:21:42my
00:21:42god
00:21:43I
00:21:43could
00:21:43have
00:21:43stopped
00:21:43this
00:21:45that
00:21:45was
00:21:46something
00:21:46I
00:21:46think
00:21:48a lot
00:21:48of
00:21:48people
00:21:49thought
00:21:50in
00:21:50a
00:21:50case
00:21:51like
00:21:51that
00:21:51a
00:21:51murder
00:21:52or
00:21:53an
00:21:54unlawful
00:21:54killing
00:21:54of
00:21:55someone
00:21:56we
00:21:56call
00:21:57out
00:21:57the
00:21:57detectives
00:21:57they
00:21:58come
00:21:58to
00:21:58the
00:21:59scene
00:21:59they
00:22:00take
00:22:00over
00:22:00the
00:22:00investigation
00:22:01the
00:22:02lead
00:22:02investigator
00:22:02was
00:22:03detective
00:22:04sergeant
00:22:04Don
00:22:04Kuehl
00:22:06Senior
00:22:06Counselor
00:22:07Will
00:22:07Palmer
00:22:07rang me
00:22:08at home
00:22:08told me
00:22:09that
00:22:10there had
00:22:11been a
00:22:11shooting
00:22:12and a
00:22:12lady
00:22:13was
00:22:13deceased
00:22:14we
00:22:15went back
00:22:16to the
00:22:16police station
00:22:16where he
00:22:17was interviewed
00:22:18in the
00:22:18presence of
00:22:18his
00:22:18solicitor
00:22:20given
00:22:20some of
00:22:21the answers
00:22:21and what
00:22:22not
00:22:22I'd say
00:22:22that he
00:22:24ran
00:22:24through a lot
00:22:25of the
00:22:26possible
00:22:26situations
00:22:27with his
00:22:27solicitor
00:22:28prior
00:22:28which
00:22:29isn't
00:22:29Tyler
00:22:29Dyr
00:22:31for the
00:22:31information
00:22:32of this
00:22:32record
00:22:32interview
00:22:33what is
00:22:34your
00:22:34full
00:22:34name
00:22:34Alan
00:22:35James
00:22:35Stuckey
00:22:37I had
00:22:37reason to
00:22:38doubt her
00:22:38fidelity
00:22:39and I
00:22:40engaged
00:22:40the
00:22:40private
00:22:40investigator
00:22:41to check
00:22:42her
00:22:42movements
00:22:42can you
00:22:43tell me
00:22:43what
00:22:43happened
00:22:43she
00:22:44admitted
00:22:44that she
00:22:45had been
00:22:45with
00:22:46Alan
00:22:46and you
00:22:46on that
00:22:47day
00:22:47she
00:22:47said
00:22:48she
00:22:48couldn't
00:22:48give
00:22:49him
00:22:49up
00:22:49what
00:22:49did
00:22:50you
00:22:50do
00:22:50I
00:22:50took
00:22:50the
00:22:51rifle
00:22:51from
00:22:51my
00:22:51study
00:22:52and
00:22:52raced
00:22:52back
00:22:52to
00:22:53the
00:22:53bedroom
00:22:54she
00:22:54screamed
00:22:55and grabbed
00:22:56the barrel
00:22:56of the
00:22:56rifle
00:22:56and we
00:22:57struggled
00:22:58shots
00:22:58were fired
00:22:59when did
00:23:00you load
00:23:00this
00:23:01rifle
00:23:01I was
00:23:02going to
00:23:02shoot a
00:23:02flying fox
00:23:03a couple
00:23:03of months
00:23:04ago
00:23:04and that's
00:23:04when
00:23:05did you
00:23:06leave the
00:23:06magazine
00:23:06loaded
00:23:07with live
00:23:07cartridges
00:23:08in this
00:23:08rifle
00:23:09in your
00:23:10study
00:23:10yes
00:23:11but it
00:23:11was right
00:23:11back
00:23:12behind
00:23:12the
00:23:12bed
00:23:12so that
00:23:13it's
00:23:13not easy
00:23:14for anybody
00:23:14to get
00:23:15at
00:23:15what
00:23:15happened
00:23:16then
00:23:16I
00:23:16had a
00:23:17shower
00:23:17and tried
00:23:18to compose
00:23:18my
00:23:18mind
00:23:19and work
00:23:19out
00:23:19if I
00:23:20should
00:23:20kill
00:23:20myself
00:23:20or
00:23:20not
00:23:22I
00:23:22rang
00:23:22my
00:23:22sister
00:23:23to
00:23:23ask
00:23:23her
00:23:23to
00:23:24come
00:23:24and
00:23:24collect
00:23:24my
00:23:24children
00:23:25and it
00:23:25occurred
00:23:26to me
00:23:26that
00:23:26there
00:23:26was
00:23:26a
00:23:27debt
00:23:27that
00:23:27I
00:23:27hadn't
00:23:27paid
00:23:28and that
00:23:28was
00:23:28to
00:23:29the
00:23:29private
00:23:29investigator
00:23:30and I
00:23:31ran
00:23:31his
00:23:31residence
00:23:31to tell
00:23:32him
00:23:32that
00:23:32his
00:23:32money
00:23:33was
00:23:33in
00:23:33the
00:23:33work
00:23:33safe
00:23:34I
00:23:35didn't
00:23:35want
00:23:35to
00:23:35feel
00:23:35that
00:23:35I
00:23:35had
00:23:36left
00:23:36some
00:23:36money
00:23:36hoeing
00:23:37you
00:23:38have
00:23:38explained
00:23:38to
00:23:38us
00:23:38your
00:23:39wife's
00:23:39affair
00:23:39with
00:23:39the
00:23:40person
00:23:40hellanine
00:23:40knew
00:23:41is
00:23:41the
00:23:41only
00:23:42reason
00:23:42you
00:23:43can
00:23:43give
00:23:43us
00:23:43for
00:23:43this
00:23:43shooting
00:23:44having
00:23:44taken
00:23:44place
00:23:45yes
00:23:45and
00:23:46considerations
00:23:47allied
00:23:47to
00:23:47it
00:23:47yes
00:23:48is
00:23:48there
00:23:49anything
00:23:49further
00:23:49you
00:23:49wish
00:23:50to
00:23:50say
00:23:50in
00:23:50relation
00:23:51to
00:23:51this
00:23:51matter
00:23:51just
00:23:52that
00:23:52the
00:23:53affair
00:23:53has
00:23:53been
00:23:53going
00:23:53on
00:23:54for
00:23:54two
00:23:54years
00:23:56that's
00:23:56all
00:24:01I
00:24:01was
00:24:02three
00:24:02months
00:24:02old
00:24:04my
00:24:04brothers
00:24:05were
00:24:05four
00:24:06and
00:24:06eight
00:24:07and
00:24:08to
00:24:08have
00:24:08the
00:24:08children
00:24:09in
00:24:09the
00:24:10house
00:24:10when
00:24:10he
00:24:11did
00:24:11it
00:24:11I
00:24:12mean
00:24:13you
00:24:13can't
00:24:14imagine
00:24:14that
00:24:14scene
00:24:15I
00:24:16don't
00:24:16think
00:24:16you
00:24:16can
00:24:17make
00:24:17sense
00:24:17of
00:24:17it
00:24:18unforgivable
00:24:19should
00:24:19never
00:24:20have
00:24:20happened
00:24:20I
00:24:23mean
00:24:24the
00:24:25type
00:24:25of
00:24:25thing
00:24:26that
00:24:26was
00:24:27going
00:24:27on
00:24:27happens
00:24:28all
00:24:28the
00:24:28time
00:24:28people
00:24:29don't
00:24:29die
00:24:29for
00:24:29it
00:24:31after
00:24:32he
00:24:32was
00:24:32charged
00:24:32with
00:24:32murder
00:24:34Alan
00:24:35Stuckey
00:24:35was
00:24:36bailed
00:24:36the
00:24:37reason
00:24:38he
00:24:38would
00:24:38have
00:24:38got
00:24:38bailed
00:24:38is
00:24:38because
00:24:39of
00:24:39his
00:24:39standing
00:24:39community
00:24:40as a
00:24:40chemist
00:24:41no
00:24:41prior
00:24:42convictions
00:24:44his
00:24:44young
00:24:44children
00:24:44were still
00:24:45there
00:24:45he's
00:24:46not
00:24:46going
00:24:46to
00:24:46decamp
00:24:48so
00:24:48Stuckey
00:24:49got
00:24:49bail
00:24:50went back
00:24:51to work
00:24:51I think
00:24:52my
00:24:53my dad
00:24:53was
00:24:53charged
00:24:54with
00:24:54murder
00:24:56but
00:24:56the
00:24:57trial
00:24:57wasn't
00:24:57for
00:24:57a
00:24:58year
00:24:58and
00:24:58a
00:24:58half
00:25:00it
00:25:00was
00:25:00quite
00:25:01surprising
00:25:01to
00:25:02me
00:25:02I
00:25:02think
00:25:02when
00:25:03I
00:25:03realised
00:25:04that
00:25:04my
00:25:05brothers
00:25:06and I
00:25:06were at
00:25:06home
00:25:07with my
00:25:07dad
00:25:08a lot
00:25:08of
00:25:08that
00:25:08time
00:25:10he
00:25:11he
00:25:11was
00:25:11able
00:25:11to
00:25:11get
00:25:12out
00:25:12resume
00:25:13a
00:25:14normal
00:25:14life
00:25:15with
00:25:16his
00:25:16children
00:25:16with
00:25:16his
00:25:16three
00:25:17young
00:25:17children
00:25:17back
00:25:18in his
00:25:19house
00:25:19in
00:25:20Lismore
00:25:20Heights
00:25:20and
00:25:22go back
00:25:23as a
00:25:24practising
00:25:24pharmacist
00:25:25of all
00:25:25things
00:25:26despite
00:25:27the fact
00:25:27that he
00:25:28had killed
00:25:28Caroline
00:25:29he
00:25:30still
00:25:31had
00:25:31the
00:25:32legal
00:25:33right
00:25:33to dispose
00:25:33of her
00:25:34body
00:25:34as her
00:25:34husband
00:25:35and
00:25:36he
00:25:36just
00:25:37simply
00:25:37had
00:25:37her
00:25:38cremated
00:25:39instantly
00:25:40with
00:25:40no
00:25:41ceremony
00:25:42and
00:25:43nobody
00:25:44had a
00:25:44chance
00:25:45to
00:25:47recognise
00:25:49what
00:25:50had
00:25:50happened
00:25:51or
00:25:51to say
00:25:52goodbye
00:25:52to her
00:25:52it was
00:25:54just as
00:25:54though
00:25:54she'd
00:25:55been put
00:25:55out
00:25:55with
00:25:55the
00:25:55rubbish
00:25:57I've
00:25:58always
00:25:58wanted
00:25:59to know
00:26:00everything
00:26:01about
00:26:02it
00:26:02you know
00:26:03like
00:26:03everything
00:26:04surrounding
00:26:04it
00:26:05I've
00:26:05always
00:26:06wanted
00:26:06to
00:26:06know
00:26:07what
00:26:08happened
00:26:08how
00:26:09it
00:26:09happened
00:26:10why
00:26:10it
00:26:10happened
00:26:15that's
00:26:16been
00:26:16a
00:26:17lifelong
00:26:18journey
00:26:22I want
00:26:23to
00:26:23understand
00:26:25where
00:26:25we were
00:26:26and where
00:26:27I was
00:26:28and what
00:26:29happened
00:26:29afterwards
00:26:29and why
00:26:30the decisions
00:26:31that were
00:26:31made
00:26:31were made
00:26:39so part
00:26:41of it
00:26:41is just
00:26:41wanting
00:26:41to know
00:26:42about
00:26:43my own
00:26:43life
00:26:44and
00:26:44know
00:26:44information
00:26:45and put
00:26:45those
00:26:46puzzle
00:26:46pieces
00:26:46together
00:26:52so this
00:26:52is the
00:26:53trial
00:26:53transcript
00:26:58and are
00:26:59you feeling
00:26:59okay about
00:27:00looking at
00:27:00it now
00:27:02I am
00:27:02I am
00:27:03I feel a little
00:27:03bit nervous
00:27:04about it
00:27:06I don't know
00:27:06there's a part
00:27:07of me that
00:27:07sort of wants
00:27:07information
00:27:08and then
00:27:09and I sort
00:27:09of wants
00:27:10to look at
00:27:10it and
00:27:11then a part
00:27:12of me that
00:27:12finds it
00:27:13quite upsetting
00:27:14so
00:27:14so in
00:27:17in this
00:27:18trial
00:27:18your father
00:27:19argued
00:27:21that he
00:27:21acted
00:27:22in response
00:27:23to provocation
00:27:24the provocation
00:27:25in this
00:27:26case
00:27:27was said
00:27:27to be
00:27:28that
00:27:29Carolyn
00:27:30was having
00:27:31an affair
00:27:32they're arguing
00:27:34that person's
00:27:35actions
00:27:35contributed
00:27:36to
00:27:37their death
00:27:39the provocation
00:27:40defence
00:27:41is actually
00:27:42a partial
00:27:42defence
00:27:43it will
00:27:44reduce
00:27:45your
00:27:45culpability
00:27:46from
00:27:47murder
00:27:48to
00:27:48manslaughter
00:27:49the guideline
00:27:50of
00:27:50the provocation
00:27:52and the
00:27:53evidence
00:27:53required
00:27:54is that
00:27:54it comes
00:27:54back to
00:27:55what an
00:27:55ordinary
00:27:56person
00:27:56would do
00:27:57under
00:27:58those
00:27:58circumstances
00:27:59so in
00:28:00other words
00:28:00you and
00:28:01I
00:28:01would we
00:28:02react
00:28:02the same
00:28:03way
00:28:04as
00:28:05Alan
00:28:05Stuckey
00:28:06acted
00:28:06given
00:28:07the
00:28:07circumstances
00:28:08people's
00:28:09marriages
00:28:09break down
00:28:10I'm a
00:28:11lawyer
00:28:12and I
00:28:13hate being
00:28:14a family
00:28:14lawyer
00:28:14but somebody's
00:28:15got to
00:28:15do it
00:28:17and it
00:28:18happens all
00:28:18the time
00:28:19but you
00:28:19don't turn
00:28:20around and
00:28:20kill your
00:28:21spouse
00:28:27your full
00:28:28name is
00:28:29William
00:28:30Arthur
00:28:30Barclay
00:28:31a consultant
00:28:32psychiatrist
00:28:33now in
00:28:33private
00:28:34practice
00:28:34are you
00:28:35able to
00:28:35express
00:28:36an opinion
00:28:36as to
00:28:37whether
00:28:37that
00:28:38conduct
00:28:38could
00:28:39have
00:28:39induced
00:28:39an
00:28:40ordinary
00:28:40person
00:28:41to
00:28:41lose
00:28:42self
00:28:42control
00:28:43in
00:28:43psychiatric
00:28:44terms
00:28:45yes
00:28:46I
00:28:46believe
00:28:46so
00:28:48there
00:28:49was a
00:28:49certain
00:28:49element
00:28:50of
00:28:51if
00:28:52someone
00:28:53was
00:28:53wronged
00:28:54in
00:28:54that
00:28:54way
00:28:54then
00:28:55they
00:28:56could
00:28:56be
00:28:56excused
00:28:57for
00:28:57not
00:28:57being
00:28:57able
00:28:57to
00:28:58control
00:28:58themselves
00:28:59there's
00:28:59an
00:28:59ordinary
00:28:59person
00:29:01get a
00:29:02gun
00:29:02which
00:29:02is
00:29:02already
00:29:03in
00:29:03the
00:29:03house
00:29:03loaded
00:29:04with
00:29:05three
00:29:05young
00:29:06children
00:29:06in
00:29:06the
00:29:06place
00:29:08there's
00:29:08an
00:29:08ordinary
00:29:09person
00:29:09do
00:29:09that
00:29:09and
00:29:10there's
00:29:10an
00:29:10ordinary
00:29:11person
00:29:12shoot
00:29:13his
00:29:13wife
00:29:14and
00:29:14there's
00:29:15an
00:29:15ordinary
00:29:15person
00:29:16have
00:29:16a
00:29:16shower
00:29:16ring
00:29:17a
00:29:17friend
00:29:17ring
00:29:18his
00:29:18list
00:29:18there's
00:29:19an
00:29:19ordinary
00:29:19person
00:29:19do
00:29:19that
00:29:20the
00:29:21person
00:29:21that
00:29:21they've
00:29:22killed
00:29:22is
00:29:22no
00:29:23longer
00:29:23able
00:29:23to
00:29:24give
00:29:24their
00:29:24side
00:29:24of
00:29:24the
00:29:24story
00:29:25or
00:29:25talk
00:29:25about
00:29:25what
00:29:26they
00:29:27went
00:29:27through
00:29:27it's
00:29:28very
00:29:29one
00:29:29sided
00:29:29and
00:29:30it's
00:29:31highly
00:29:31critical
00:29:32of
00:29:32that
00:29:32person
00:29:33and
00:29:34then
00:29:34at
00:29:34the
00:29:34same
00:29:35time
00:29:35you
00:29:35also
00:29:36get
00:29:36people
00:29:36giving
00:29:36evidence
00:29:37about
00:29:37the
00:29:38positive
00:29:38characteristics
00:29:39of
00:29:40the
00:29:40accused
00:29:42when
00:29:43you
00:29:43spoke
00:29:44to
00:29:44your
00:29:44brother
00:29:44can
00:29:45you
00:29:45describe
00:29:46how
00:29:46he
00:29:46appeared
00:29:47to
00:29:47you
00:29:47to
00:29:47be
00:29:48extremely
00:29:49upset
00:29:49what
00:29:50sort
00:29:50of
00:29:51person
00:29:51is
00:29:52your
00:29:52brother
00:29:52a
00:29:53very
00:29:54serious
00:29:54minded
00:29:54very
00:29:56moral
00:29:57quiet
00:29:58shy
00:29:59very
00:30:00idealistic
00:30:01person
00:30:01I
00:30:02also
00:30:02think
00:30:03very
00:30:03naive
00:30:04is
00:30:05he
00:30:05a
00:30:05violent
00:30:06sort
00:30:06of
00:30:06person
00:30:07no
00:30:07no
00:30:08not
00:30:09at
00:30:09all
00:30:09he
00:30:10loved
00:30:10the
00:30:10children
00:30:11he
00:30:11always
00:30:11has
00:30:12did
00:30:13he
00:30:14ever
00:30:14express
00:30:14to
00:30:14you
00:30:15the
00:30:15view
00:30:15he
00:30:16took
00:30:16of
00:30:16marriage
00:30:17that
00:30:18marriage
00:30:19is
00:30:19a
00:30:19sacred
00:30:19thing
00:30:22it
00:30:23seemed
00:30:23so
00:30:24odd
00:30:24to
00:30:24me
00:30:24that
00:30:25none
00:30:25of
00:30:25her
00:30:25friends
00:30:26got
00:30:27to
00:30:27speak
00:30:28for
00:30:29her
00:30:29at
00:30:29least
00:30:29because
00:30:29she
00:30:30wasn't
00:30:30able
00:30:30to
00:30:31speak
00:30:31so
00:30:31it's
00:30:32like
00:30:32there
00:30:33were
00:30:33other
00:30:34people
00:30:34who
00:30:34could
00:30:34have
00:30:34at
00:30:34least
00:30:35spoke
00:30:35to
00:30:36her
00:30:37character
00:30:37and
00:30:39given
00:30:40some
00:30:41indication
00:30:41of
00:30:42what
00:30:42she
00:30:43was
00:30:43going
00:30:43through
00:30:43I
00:30:43just
00:30:44yeah
00:30:44yeah
00:30:45it
00:30:45becomes
00:30:46very
00:30:46one-sided
00:30:46sort
00:30:47of
00:30:47view
00:30:47of
00:30:47what
00:30:47happens
00:30:48in
00:30:49that
00:30:49situation
00:30:50doesn't
00:30:51it
00:30:51yeah
00:30:51sometimes
00:30:52the
00:30:53prosecution
00:30:55could
00:30:56go much
00:30:57further
00:30:57in the
00:30:57way
00:30:58that
00:30:58they
00:30:58approach
00:30:58this
00:30:59and
00:30:59in
00:30:59trying
00:30:59to
00:31:00ask
00:31:00questions
00:31:00and
00:31:01get
00:31:01more
00:31:01information
00:31:02about
00:31:02that
00:31:03context
00:31:03they
00:31:04don't
00:31:05always
00:31:05understand
00:31:06the
00:31:06dynamics
00:31:06of
00:31:06family
00:31:07violence
00:31:07themselves
00:31:08and
00:31:09the
00:31:10importance
00:31:10of
00:31:11it
00:31:11for
00:31:11understanding
00:31:12what
00:31:13happens
00:31:13in
00:31:13domestic
00:31:14homicides
00:31:16what
00:31:16we
00:31:16really
00:31:17needed
00:31:17in
00:31:18this
00:31:18trial
00:31:18as far
00:31:18as
00:31:18the
00:31:19prosecution
00:31:19is
00:31:19concerned
00:31:20we
00:31:20needed
00:31:21someone
00:31:21that
00:31:21was
00:31:22going
00:31:22to
00:31:22get
00:31:22in
00:31:22there
00:31:22and
00:31:22fight
00:31:23like
00:31:23a
00:31:23bulldog
00:31:23and
00:31:24shake
00:31:24their
00:31:24head
00:31:24and
00:31:24carry
00:31:25on
00:31:25and
00:31:26unfortunately
00:31:27we
00:31:27finished
00:31:27up
00:31:28with
00:31:28a
00:31:28golden
00:31:28retriever
00:31:30I
00:31:30was
00:31:31appalled
00:31:31at
00:31:31the
00:31:31lack
00:31:32of
00:31:32prosecution
00:31:33I
00:31:34mean
00:31:34I
00:31:34remember
00:31:34sitting
00:31:34in
00:31:35the
00:31:35back
00:31:35of
00:31:35the
00:31:35court
00:31:36and
00:31:36just
00:31:36thinking
00:31:36oh
00:31:37my
00:31:37God
00:31:38the
00:31:38worst
00:31:39thing
00:31:39about
00:31:39trying
00:31:40to
00:31:40recover
00:31:40from
00:31:40this
00:31:41for
00:31:41all
00:31:41of
00:31:41us
00:31:43was
00:31:43that
00:31:44there
00:31:45was
00:31:45so
00:31:46much
00:31:47shock
00:31:47and
00:31:47horror
00:31:48because
00:31:49she
00:31:49was
00:31:49this
00:31:49scarlet
00:31:50woman
00:31:52we
00:31:52would
00:31:52hear
00:31:53indirectly
00:31:55about
00:31:56the
00:31:56outrage
00:31:56about
00:31:57what
00:31:57this
00:31:57woman
00:31:57had
00:31:58done
00:31:58to
00:31:58this
00:31:58poor
00:31:58chap
00:31:59not
00:32:00what
00:32:00this
00:32:00chap
00:32:00had
00:32:01done
00:32:01to
00:32:01this
00:32:01poor
00:32:01woman
00:32:03yeah
00:32:04I
00:32:04just
00:32:04think
00:32:05there
00:32:05was
00:32:05this
00:32:05mindset
00:32:05that
00:32:08she's
00:32:09the
00:32:09villain
00:32:10in
00:32:10all
00:32:10this
00:32:10she's
00:32:11done
00:32:11the
00:32:11wrong
00:32:11thing
00:32:12and
00:32:13in
00:32:13a
00:32:13sense
00:32:13I
00:32:14hate
00:32:14to
00:32:14say
00:32:14it
00:32:15but
00:32:15some
00:32:16of
00:32:16those
00:32:16people
00:32:17I'm
00:32:17sure
00:32:17think
00:32:17she
00:32:18got
00:32:18what
00:32:18she
00:32:19deserved
00:32:37so
00:32:38there's
00:32:38quite
00:32:38a lot
00:32:38of
00:32:39evidence
00:32:39in
00:32:40relation
00:32:40to
00:32:40the
00:32:40ballistics
00:32:41what
00:32:42sort
00:32:42of
00:32:42weapon
00:32:43was
00:32:43used
00:32:44and
00:32:44how
00:32:45that
00:32:45weapon
00:32:46is
00:32:46operated
00:32:50Carol
00:32:51was shot
00:32:51three times
00:32:53once in the abdomen
00:32:54twice in the head
00:32:56this one's really graphic
00:33:03after the first shot
00:33:05she's wounded
00:33:05lying on the floor
00:33:06and she wouldn't have died from that shot either
00:33:08the doctors have said
00:33:10surely
00:33:12he should have realised what he's doing
00:33:14two more times he cocked that gun and fired it again
00:33:17and this is a bolt action gun
00:33:19a bolt action 22 rifle
00:33:21so it's not like a semi-automatic where you just have to pull the trigger
00:33:24there was a manual requirement to
00:33:30reload that gun
00:33:31or you can probably just do it like that
00:33:33that's one
00:33:33bang
00:33:36two
00:33:37it's a very deliberate action
00:33:38that's what I'm trying to say
00:33:45yeah there is quite a lot
00:33:47in the child transcript
00:33:48about where
00:33:49abouts in the house
00:33:50the
00:33:50shooting occurred
00:33:52there's a map
00:33:53that's
00:33:53been provided
00:33:54as part of the evidence
00:33:55you can see
00:33:57that there
00:34:00this is my bedroom
00:34:01this is my dad's room
00:34:03still
00:34:03all the way through my
00:34:05life
00:34:05I go into this room every day
00:34:08that she was
00:34:11you know
00:34:12lying here dying
00:34:13and just
00:34:14yeah that's horrible
00:34:16yeah
00:34:17it's awful
00:34:26he was undoubtedly at all times
00:34:28a man of exceptional character
00:34:30and obvious good standing in the community
00:34:34the prisoner's control of himself
00:34:36over a lengthy period
00:34:38ultimately snapped
00:34:39when his wife told him
00:34:40she could not give up her lover
00:34:42in the circumstances
00:34:44some response on his part
00:34:46would not have been unreasonable
00:34:48however
00:34:49to shoot the deceased
00:34:51three times
00:34:52was hardly proportionate
00:34:54to the devastating verbal message
00:34:56it was greater
00:34:57than the circumstances warranted
00:34:59in my view
00:35:02the prisoner is unlikely
00:35:03to again offend
00:35:04against the law
00:35:05the prisoner's strong
00:35:07subjective matters
00:35:08unlike many other cases
00:35:10provide the basis
00:35:11for specifying
00:35:12a non-parole period
00:35:13which will give him
00:35:14the opportunity
00:35:15of resuming his life
00:35:17in the community
00:35:17and with his children
00:35:19at a reasonably early time
00:35:22Alan James Stuckey
00:35:24on the charge
00:35:26on which the jury
00:35:26has convicted you
00:35:27I sentence you
00:35:29to penal servitude
00:35:30for eight years
00:35:31I specify
00:35:33a non-parole period
00:35:35of three years
00:35:38she like sort of
00:35:39made me do it
00:35:40she ran off
00:35:41you know
00:35:41went off with another man
00:35:42poor
00:35:43it was all
00:35:43poor me
00:35:44poor me
00:35:45I'm the victim here
00:35:48yeah it makes me
00:35:49really
00:35:50furious actually
00:35:53I have difficulty
00:35:55reconciling
00:35:56the fact that
00:35:57this matter
00:35:58resulted in
00:35:59a conviction
00:35:59for manslaughter
00:36:00I really do
00:36:01but of course
00:36:02I have to accept
00:36:02the court's decision
00:36:03that's the system
00:36:04of justice
00:36:04that we have
00:36:05in this country
00:36:06even though
00:36:07we don't have
00:36:07provocation
00:36:08defence available
00:36:10in most states
00:36:12in Australia
00:36:12anymore
00:36:13we still see
00:36:14the same
00:36:15explanations
00:36:17for
00:36:17why men
00:36:18acted
00:36:19the way they did
00:36:19in these cases
00:36:20the provocation
00:36:22narrative
00:36:22can still be used
00:36:23to understand
00:36:24their actions
00:36:25when they're
00:36:26considering sentencing
00:36:27I asked him
00:36:28one time
00:36:29he said something
00:36:31about the fact
00:36:31that he'd never
00:36:32apologised to us
00:36:33and he was like
00:36:33I don't owe you
00:36:34or anyone
00:36:35an apology
00:36:36wow
00:36:38the absence
00:36:39of the impact
00:36:40on the children
00:36:41is really striking
00:36:44yeah
00:36:44as well
00:36:45it felt like
00:36:46a real sense
00:36:47of like
00:36:48what's best
00:36:48for my father
00:36:49and really centred
00:36:50around him
00:36:51rather than
00:36:51thinking about
00:36:52about us
00:36:54and the long term
00:36:54impacts of
00:36:55the decisions
00:36:57that were made
00:36:57and the actual
00:37:00conclusion of
00:37:02that drama
00:37:03was catastrophic
00:37:04for the children
00:37:06especially
00:37:22so these are
00:37:25letters that my
00:37:27dad wrote me
00:37:29when he was
00:37:30in prison
00:37:30so I was
00:37:31probably about
00:37:32two or three
00:37:34years old
00:37:35which to them
00:37:36are
00:37:40like pictures
00:37:41of birds
00:37:42that my dad
00:37:43has drawn
00:37:44or trees
00:37:47dear Catherine
00:37:48it is Sunday
00:37:49here as I'm
00:37:50riding this
00:37:50and the weather
00:37:51is very poor
00:37:52there is a big fog
00:37:53all over the camp
00:37:54and it is just so thick
00:37:56it is almost like rain
00:37:58this is a kookaburra
00:37:59see his big strong beak
00:38:01for eating meat
00:38:02sometimes they eat snakes
00:38:03and their song
00:38:04is just like a laugh
00:38:06love dad
00:38:17my father served
00:38:1822 months
00:38:19for killing
00:38:19my mother
00:38:22on his release
00:38:23my brothers and I
00:38:24went back
00:38:24to live with him
00:38:26I was about
00:38:27four years old
00:38:31I was appalled
00:38:32that he could
00:38:33be given custody
00:38:34of the children
00:38:35I cannot understand
00:38:38how the court
00:38:39made an order
00:38:40that she was
00:38:41to live with
00:38:41her father
00:38:44I really
00:38:46cannot understand
00:38:47that
00:38:48so this
00:38:49is a picture
00:38:51of me
00:38:51in primary school
00:38:54I excelled
00:38:55at school
00:38:56and I had a lot
00:38:57of friends
00:38:57and I enjoyed it
00:38:58but
00:39:00it felt like
00:39:01a different world
00:39:02when I went home
00:39:04I felt a real
00:39:05disconnect
00:39:05between
00:39:06what I was showing
00:39:07people
00:39:08and what I was
00:39:08experiencing
00:39:09internally
00:39:13I wasn't allowed
00:39:15to talk about
00:39:16my mother
00:39:19they weren't
00:39:20photos
00:39:21they weren't
00:39:21stories
00:39:22I didn't have
00:39:25any sense
00:39:26of who she was
00:39:27her name
00:39:29was never
00:39:30mentioned
00:39:33the story
00:39:34that I was told
00:39:35was that
00:39:36she had
00:39:38done this
00:39:39awful thing
00:39:40he had
00:39:40snapped
00:39:41and then
00:39:43he killed her
00:39:44and really
00:39:45framed as
00:39:46this sort
00:39:46of
00:39:47accident
00:39:52I feel
00:39:53like there
00:39:53was a really
00:39:54significant
00:39:55shift in my
00:39:56relationship
00:39:57with my dad
00:39:58when I went
00:39:59to high school
00:40:00I really
00:40:02felt like
00:40:03I'd become
00:40:04someone that
00:40:05he really
00:40:06didn't like
00:40:08where there
00:40:09was a sense
00:40:10of entitlement
00:40:11and control
00:40:12and that
00:40:13if you step
00:40:14outside
00:40:14of this
00:40:15little box
00:40:15that he's
00:40:16kind of
00:40:17put you
00:40:17in
00:40:17then you
00:40:19become
00:40:19this huge
00:40:20disappointment
00:40:20and you're
00:40:21uncontrollable
00:40:26I knew
00:40:27that I had
00:40:27to be
00:40:28a certain
00:40:28way
00:40:30show that
00:40:31I was
00:40:32fine
00:40:33even if
00:40:34I was
00:40:35suffering
00:40:38feeling
00:40:39like at
00:40:39any moment
00:40:40love will
00:40:41be withdrawn
00:40:46I just
00:40:47remember
00:40:47bumping
00:40:48into her
00:40:48one day
00:40:48and I
00:40:49knew it
00:40:49was her
00:40:49birthday
00:40:50and I
00:40:50took her
00:40:50round to
00:40:51the cafe
00:40:51and we
00:40:51had nice
00:40:52chocolate
00:40:52and we
00:40:53had a
00:40:53chat
00:40:55she told
00:40:57me
00:40:57that she
00:40:58understood
00:40:58that her
00:41:00mother
00:41:00was
00:41:01leaving
00:41:01her
00:41:02and the
00:41:03boys
00:41:03and I
00:41:04just said
00:41:05no that's
00:41:06not true
00:41:12that's
00:41:12what her
00:41:13father had
00:41:13told her
00:41:16and I
00:41:18told her
00:41:22that there
00:41:23was no
00:41:23way her
00:41:24mother
00:41:24would have
00:41:24left
00:41:24her
00:41:25and
00:41:27the lies
00:41:28that she
00:41:28had been
00:41:29told
00:41:29were just
00:41:31not
00:41:32right
00:41:34when I
00:41:35was
00:41:3616
00:41:36I
00:41:37needed
00:41:37to get
00:41:38my
00:41:39passport
00:41:41and I
00:41:41needed to
00:41:41get a
00:41:42death
00:41:42certificate
00:41:44and so
00:41:45it was
00:41:45the first
00:41:45time I
00:41:45actually
00:41:46had seen
00:41:46her cause
00:41:47of death
00:41:48written
00:41:48down
00:41:49which
00:41:49was
00:41:49something
00:41:50like
00:41:50the
00:41:50effects
00:41:50of a
00:41:51gunshot
00:41:51wound
00:41:51to the
00:41:52head
00:41:52which
00:41:53was
00:41:53incredibly
00:41:55confronting
00:41:56for me
00:41:57at 16
00:41:57because
00:41:58nobody
00:41:59had ever
00:41:59said that
00:42:00to me
00:42:00they hadn't
00:42:01actually said
00:42:01like this
00:42:02is how
00:42:02she died
00:42:03I remember
00:42:04that feeling
00:42:05of reading
00:42:05that death
00:42:06certificate
00:42:07and being
00:42:08really
00:42:08shocked
00:42:09at
00:42:10I guess
00:42:10the bluntness
00:42:11of it
00:42:11but just
00:42:12also
00:42:12that
00:42:13that was
00:42:14what it
00:42:14was
00:42:14you know
00:42:17that my
00:42:17dad
00:42:18had shot
00:42:19her
00:42:19in the head
00:42:20and that
00:42:22that knowledge
00:42:23made me
00:42:24realize
00:42:24that I
00:42:25was
00:42:25unsafe
00:42:26actually
00:42:28like
00:42:29physically
00:42:29unsafe
00:42:30and
00:42:31it's
00:42:31not
00:42:31it's
00:42:32like I
00:42:32felt
00:42:32that
00:42:33before
00:42:34but I
00:42:35had this
00:42:35example
00:42:36of like
00:42:36how far
00:42:37he could
00:42:37go
00:42:38I felt
00:42:39scared
00:42:39of my
00:42:40dad
00:42:40at that
00:42:40time
00:42:43and what
00:42:44he could
00:42:44do
00:42:45because
00:42:46I was
00:42:46also just
00:42:47living on
00:42:47my own
00:42:47with him
00:42:48at that
00:42:48point
00:42:48my brothers
00:42:49had left
00:42:50home
00:42:51and I
00:42:51think
00:42:52why didn't
00:42:52anyone else
00:42:53why didn't
00:42:53the adults
00:42:54you know
00:42:55ask some
00:42:56questions
00:42:56check in
00:42:57all of those
00:42:59things
00:43:00it's not
00:43:01like people
00:43:01didn't know
00:43:02that that was
00:43:03fucking strange
00:43:04that was a
00:43:05weird thing
00:43:06that we were
00:43:07growing up
00:43:07in the house
00:43:08that our
00:43:08mother was
00:43:09killed
00:43:09with the
00:43:10man that
00:43:10killed her
00:43:14I think
00:43:15there was
00:43:15an assumption
00:43:16that
00:43:17everything
00:43:17was fine
00:43:18everyone
00:43:19wanted it
00:43:20to be
00:43:20fine
00:43:20so
00:43:22I thought
00:43:23well if I'm
00:43:23not fine
00:43:24then something's
00:43:25wrong with me
00:43:25not them
00:43:28I started
00:43:29having nightmares
00:43:30about
00:43:32her death
00:43:33like
00:43:33very graphic
00:43:35nightmares
00:43:35about
00:43:36her being
00:43:37shot
00:43:37in this
00:43:38house that
00:43:39I was
00:43:39living in
00:43:41and it
00:43:41was also
00:43:42just like
00:43:42my everyday
00:43:43house
00:43:43you know
00:43:44like coming
00:43:44from school
00:43:45and making
00:43:46myself a
00:43:46snack
00:43:46and
00:43:48you know
00:43:48sometimes
00:43:49I would watch
00:43:50something with
00:43:50my dad
00:43:50and it was
00:43:51funny
00:43:51and we'd
00:43:51laugh
00:43:52and it
00:43:53was just
00:43:53my life
00:43:54and it
00:43:55was also
00:43:56terrifying
00:43:57at times
00:43:59yeah
00:44:09I knew
00:44:10I knew that
00:44:10to have
00:44:10any sort
00:44:11of peace
00:44:12that I
00:44:13needed to
00:44:14leave
00:44:15Lismore
00:44:17and I
00:44:17finished my
00:44:19last exam
00:44:19packed up
00:44:20my stuff
00:44:21and one day
00:44:22when my dad
00:44:23was at work
00:44:23and just
00:44:23left
00:44:28actually don't
00:44:28remember
00:44:29saying goodbye
00:44:29to my dad
00:44:30at all
00:44:32so I went
00:44:33to Sydney
00:44:35and moved
00:44:36in with my
00:44:37cousin
00:44:38Elle
00:44:38and the
00:44:39family
00:44:40and we
00:44:41went to
00:44:42uni together
00:44:43at Sydney
00:44:43uni
00:44:44at some
00:44:45point
00:44:46I got a
00:44:47job
00:44:48at Sydney
00:44:49theatre company
00:44:49and that's
00:44:50where I met
00:44:50Tanya
00:44:52Catherine's
00:44:53my best
00:44:54friend
00:44:54my former
00:44:55partner
00:44:56we met
00:44:57in 2008
00:44:59neither of us
00:45:00had been in a
00:45:00queer relationship
00:45:01before so
00:45:02our falling
00:45:04in love was
00:45:04a really
00:45:05beautiful time
00:45:06and also
00:45:06complicated time
00:45:07we had like
00:45:08great crew
00:45:09of friends
00:45:09that we spent
00:45:10time with
00:45:10and saw a lot
00:45:11of art
00:45:12we were super
00:45:12broke
00:45:13but
00:45:15it was
00:45:17a beautiful
00:45:18kind of love
00:45:19story
00:45:19and then
00:45:20also
00:45:20like
00:45:22interwoven
00:45:22with a lot
00:45:23of trauma
00:45:23and pain
00:45:24I guess
00:45:26I felt
00:45:27like
00:45:27I would
00:45:29leave behind
00:45:30like everything
00:45:30that had
00:45:31happened
00:45:31and
00:45:33including
00:45:34that
00:45:34feeling
00:45:36of
00:45:36I guess
00:45:38you know
00:45:38depression
00:45:39and
00:45:39I just
00:45:40assumed
00:45:40that that
00:45:41would
00:45:41go away
00:45:42once I
00:45:44was out
00:45:44of the
00:45:44house
00:45:44and away
00:45:45from my
00:45:45dad
00:45:46and
00:45:49it didn't
00:45:50in fact
00:45:52it felt
00:45:53worse
00:45:54I was
00:45:55more depressed
00:45:56I was
00:45:56really depressed
00:45:57I don't
00:45:58think I've
00:45:59ever seen
00:45:59Catherine
00:46:00asleep
00:46:02and
00:46:03we were
00:46:04together
00:46:04for four
00:46:04years
00:46:05insomnia
00:46:06and nightmares
00:46:07were a big
00:46:07part of
00:46:08our life
00:46:09they would
00:46:10sit
00:46:11bolt upright
00:46:12and they
00:46:12would be
00:46:13screaming
00:46:13it was
00:46:14a guttural
00:46:15scream
00:46:17and
00:46:18they would
00:46:18be shaking
00:46:20hyperventilating
00:46:21it was
00:46:22just fear
00:46:23just
00:46:24just fear
00:46:26how anyone
00:46:27thought
00:46:27that he
00:46:28could raise
00:46:29those kids
00:46:29in the home
00:46:30where he
00:46:30killed
00:46:30Carolyn
00:46:32and then
00:46:33have one
00:46:34of them
00:46:34grow up
00:46:35with physical
00:46:36likeness
00:46:36to this
00:46:37person
00:46:38and for
00:46:38people
00:46:39not to
00:46:39think
00:46:39that there
00:46:40was going
00:46:40to be
00:46:40some
00:46:40problems
00:46:41there
00:46:43perplexes
00:46:43me
00:46:43my
00:46:44father
00:46:45was still
00:46:46in regular
00:46:47contact
00:46:47with me
00:46:48and writing
00:46:49me
00:46:50letters
00:46:51that were
00:46:51pretty awful
00:46:53some days
00:46:54we would
00:46:54be going
00:46:55about our
00:46:55days
00:46:55in our
00:46:56tiny
00:46:56little
00:46:56apartment
00:46:56and it
00:46:57was like
00:46:58living with
00:46:58someone
00:46:58that wasn't
00:46:59there
00:47:00like they
00:47:01were the
00:47:01closest person
00:47:02to me
00:47:02in the
00:47:02world
00:47:02so when
00:47:03they did
00:47:03disappear
00:47:06it was
00:47:07difficult
00:47:09and I
00:47:10didn't know
00:47:10what to
00:47:10do
00:47:12and it
00:47:13was during
00:47:13that time
00:47:15that I
00:47:16went through
00:47:17a lot of
00:47:17things in
00:47:18my life
00:47:18a break
00:47:19up with
00:47:19Tanya
00:47:20that
00:47:22brought
00:47:22a lot
00:47:23of grief
00:47:26and loss
00:47:27into my
00:47:28to my
00:47:29world
00:47:29so I
00:47:31started going
00:47:32to therapy
00:47:33like really
00:47:33seriously
00:47:34for the
00:47:35first time
00:47:37and really
00:47:38started
00:47:39dealing
00:47:39with
00:47:41my
00:47:42childhood
00:47:52so in
00:47:532013
00:47:54I dropped
00:47:55my surname
00:47:56Stucky
00:47:56and I
00:47:58made my
00:47:58middle name
00:47:59my surname
00:48:00which is
00:48:00Joy
00:48:02and Joy
00:48:03was my
00:48:04mum's
00:48:04middle name
00:48:05part of
00:48:06it was
00:48:07not wanting
00:48:08to just
00:48:08be easily
00:48:09tracked down
00:48:10by my
00:48:11father
00:48:12and then
00:48:13there was
00:48:13really
00:48:13embracing
00:48:14my mum
00:48:15and that
00:48:16side of
00:48:16the family
00:48:38I always felt
00:48:39like I wasn't
00:48:40going to be
00:48:40around for
00:48:41very long
00:48:44like I was
00:48:44going to have
00:48:45going to have
00:48:45a short
00:48:45life
00:48:47like my
00:48:48mum
00:48:50I worked
00:48:51out how
00:48:52old she
00:48:52was when
00:48:53she was
00:48:53killed
00:48:54which was
00:48:5532 years
00:48:56nine weeks
00:48:57and six
00:48:58days
00:49:00and I
00:49:00worked out
00:49:01what date
00:49:02that will be
00:49:02for me
00:49:04and it's
00:49:05the 27th
00:49:06of December
00:49:062016
00:49:09so I have
00:49:10a cut-off
00:49:10date in my
00:49:11head
00:49:11and I
00:49:13have about
00:49:13six months
00:49:16I've always
00:49:16just assumed
00:49:17that I
00:49:17would die
00:49:19sometime
00:49:20before then
00:49:24that's
00:49:24it for me
00:49:35part of
00:49:36feeling like
00:49:37I'm not
00:49:38going to be
00:49:38here next
00:49:39year is
00:49:39not having
00:49:41a mother
00:49:43to kind of
00:49:44see what
00:49:44that looks
00:49:45like
00:49:45what that
00:49:46next part
00:49:46looks like
00:49:47and getting
00:49:47older
00:49:48looks like
00:49:48and a lot
00:49:49of people
00:49:49look to
00:49:50their
00:49:51parents
00:49:52for that
00:49:52but
00:49:54part of
00:49:55it I think
00:49:55is just
00:49:55that I
00:49:58feel like
00:49:59we're somehow
00:49:59the same
00:50:00person
00:50:03and that's
00:50:03probably not
00:50:04the healthiest
00:50:05thing in the
00:50:05world
00:50:15so it's
00:50:16like 2am
00:50:17or something
00:50:18and
00:50:20I can't
00:50:21sleep
00:50:21because
00:50:23I've never
00:50:24been able
00:50:24to take
00:50:25sleeping
00:50:25pills
00:50:25because
00:50:26they
00:50:26give me
00:50:26these
00:50:28nightmares
00:50:29I feel
00:50:30like
00:50:30having
00:50:31them
00:50:32around
00:50:32is
00:50:32probably
00:50:32not
00:50:33a
00:50:33good
00:50:33idea
00:50:33so
00:50:43I'm
00:50:44supposed
00:50:44to be
00:50:44therapy
00:50:45today
00:50:47I had
00:50:48to cancel
00:50:48it because
00:50:49I can't
00:50:50afford to
00:50:50go
00:50:51like I'm
00:50:5232 and
00:50:53I can't
00:50:54pay my
00:50:54rent
00:50:58I think
00:50:58that's
00:50:59enough
00:50:59for today
00:51:05I really
00:51:07didn't want
00:51:07to do this
00:51:07today
00:51:08because I
00:51:08feel awful
00:51:09and
00:51:14and I'm
00:51:15afraid of
00:51:17not coming
00:51:18out of it
00:51:31today is
00:51:32December 26th
00:51:36so tomorrow
00:51:38I will be
00:51:39the exact age
00:51:40that my mother
00:51:41was when she
00:51:41was killed
00:52:06I will be
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01:02:53Your mum read this to you when you were a baby.
01:03:23I carry your heart.
01:03:25I carry it in my heart.
01:03:36I love you so much.
01:03:40The three of you so, so much.
01:03:57I had been having these thoughts about doing a memorial for my mum.
01:04:04Make a space for all of us to talk a bit more about her
01:04:07and have some ritual around it.
01:04:10I felt like I needed that, like a grief ritual.
01:04:16And I felt like other people did too.
01:04:23Catherine wanted to do something in Lismore
01:04:26to bring together friends and family to honour Carolyn.
01:04:30They ended up finding this outdoor cathedral,
01:04:33which is so beautiful and, yeah, really connected.
01:04:37Catherine's kind of environmental spirituality
01:04:40and Carolyn's faith.
01:05:04So many people really were just waiting for me to ask, you know,
01:05:08like really actually wanted the opportunity to speak about her.
01:05:11Hi, how are you going?
01:05:13My daughter.
01:05:14Nice to meet you.
01:05:15How are you?
01:05:16Good to see you.
01:05:17This is the first photo of Catherine's mother.
01:05:19So, Karen would have been around four to five.
01:05:25Oh, that's a beautiful photo.
01:05:27Catherine did an amazing job of organising the memorial.
01:05:31She got all sorts of people came together.
01:05:35People that I hadn't seen for years were there.
01:05:38That made it emotional because we knew why we were there.
01:05:41You too.
01:05:43It was also a real time of connection and beauty and community.
01:05:49And it was amazing.
01:05:51And it was so cathartic for all of us there.
01:05:55Emotion was so raw, so real.
01:05:58It was as if it was a week after something had happened.
01:06:01And I'll never forget it.
01:06:05I just wanted to welcome everyone here.
01:06:07Probably all know it's Carolyn's birthday today.
01:06:09And I feel like maybe if she were here, she would put on some spectacular dinner party.
01:06:15She would print out menus.
01:06:17Her attention to detail, I have heard, was pretty spot on.
01:06:21Carolyn, your death came before the groundswell change of public outrage at the incidents of domestic violence that blight our
01:06:29community.
01:06:30Even now, 30 years later, I find it difficult to speak without being a little bit of a lump in
01:06:35the throat.
01:06:36And today is pleasure for me as well.
01:06:39And I just am so happy and so pleased to see you, the embodiment of your mother and with the
01:06:48approach to life that I think she would be very, very proud of.
01:06:51I've been trying to put words to how I feel about my mother my whole life.
01:06:56The feeling of being part of her and her me, but also the absence of something missing.
01:07:04Happy anniversary of your birth, Carolyn Joy.
01:07:08You have lived in my heart and mind and body since the very first moment I took breath.
01:07:14And you will be there until the last.
01:07:18And in that way you have lived far longer than your 32 years.
01:07:21Montage.
01:07:23The похож community.
01:07:25The most profitable you have been whether or from your life is one of the most commendable,
01:07:26because I have ever had success.
01:07:27And you will be there until now.
01:07:27Hoezes come Campbell.
01:07:31As of me.
01:07:39And I hope for you.
01:07:41If it is to be the only one of my favorites,
01:07:43Oh I hope for you.
01:07:50Something's amazing.
01:07:51If there is to be the only one of my favorites though,
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01:09:17Yeah, totally.
01:09:19Bev is somebody that I interviewed for our research project.
01:09:23I hear a gunshot and I'm like, what the hell?
01:09:28And I see my mum being shot in the back.
01:09:30And how old were you at this point?
01:09:32I'm 11 at this point.
01:09:33I can't remember how many shots in total but the final shot was to the head.
01:09:37I still see that image pretty much every day.
01:09:41How do we heal from this experience?
01:09:44Do we ever really heal?
01:09:45Where do we stand and what do we have left to do here in this space?
01:09:49Because there is a lot more to do.
01:09:50So much to do.
01:09:52And we're going to do it, Bev.
01:09:5752 women a year are dying.
01:10:00These women are mothers, grandmothers, someone's aunt, someone's friend.
01:10:06And where are the voices of those who are left behind?
01:10:11I think that the work that we're doing and what we're fighting for
01:10:16will make a difference to children and young people.
01:10:20Children are primary victims in this situation.
01:10:23Like, it's a direct crime against them as well.
01:10:28The men who commit these crimes are considered intelligent, charming.
01:10:32They might not fit the stereotype of what an abuser looks like.
01:10:36And my dad was those things.
01:10:37I don't have any relationship with him anymore.
01:10:40And I don't, I practice very deliberate non-forgiveness.
01:10:44I don't know my dad now.
01:10:46So I can't really speak to the person he is now.
01:10:49But the further away I get, the more clearly I can see
01:10:54what it's like to be in an abusive relationship.
01:10:57And that was an abusive relationship.
01:10:59So me wanting to come back to him, him to be proud of me
01:11:03and be in his favour, yes, that's a child wanting that,
01:11:07but that's also somebody who is going through the dynamic
01:11:11of somebody else's push and pull and somebody else's control.
01:11:20We don't have him in my head anymore.
01:11:24So many of the depressive kind of episodes that I've had
01:11:29are around that stuff that I can't change,
01:11:32no matter how much therapy I do.
01:11:35And that's where activism comes into my life, I think.
01:11:38That's where I go, well, I can't just be doing inferior work.
01:11:44I feel like if you're going to live in this world,
01:11:48you have to do something.
01:11:52I love the concept of killjoys,
01:11:55or feminist killjoys specifically.
01:11:59Sarah Ahmed, who is an amazing thinker and writer,
01:12:04and she coined this term.
01:12:08People who are willing to sort of not stay quiet about injustice.
01:12:15But I have been called a killjoy,
01:12:18and I embrace that.
01:12:19I think it's a good thing.
01:12:35I'm not here now as, like, some healed human.
01:12:43It's ongoing.
01:12:46It's always kind of navigating my mental health
01:12:51and experiences and trauma.
01:12:58Being almost 40 now
01:13:00and realizing that my mum only got to 32,
01:13:06for me, my 30s have just been
01:13:09in such a huge time of understanding myself.
01:13:12And she didn't really get that time.
01:13:18I think if I could speak to my mum now,
01:13:22I would tell her I loved her
01:13:29and let her know that
01:13:31and my life is, like, so full.
01:13:44I don't just have to tolerate
01:13:47being sort of okay.
01:13:51You know, I'm actually allowed to feel good.
01:13:59I'm in a new place where I feel like
01:14:01I might actually live for a while.
01:14:03I mean, who knows?
01:14:04Who knows what will happen?
01:14:05I love you.
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