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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 41
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00:01I'll see you tomorrow.
00:02Tomorrow, the midterms kick off.
00:04It's Election Day tomorrow in Texas, North Carolina, and Arkansas.
00:07We'll have network coverage throughout the day.
00:08Then I will be here starting at 7 p.m. Eastern tomorrow night,
00:12joined by the whole team with Ali Velshi at the Big Board.
00:14So rest up.
00:15We've got another big day to come tomorrow.
00:17I will see you tomorrow night again starting at 7 p.m. Eastern.
00:20Now it's time for the last word with the great...
00:22Good evening, Lawrence.
00:22Good evening, Rachel.
00:23I will see you tomorrow night also.
00:25And James Tallarico is joining us tonight on the final night of his campaign
00:30for the primary in Texas, the Senate race there.
00:34We invited Jasmine Crockett, who's also a candidate on the Democratic side of that primary.
00:39She couldn't fit it into her schedule at this hour or any other tonight
00:43in that final night of campaigning in Texas.
00:46But we will hear from candidate Tallarico at the end of this hour.
00:50And, Rachel, imagine this weekend that you were part of the team,
00:56you worked night and day to negotiate the Iran deal under President Obama,
01:02a deal joined by five other countries.
01:05And Donald Trump came in, ripped it up, and now you're watching a war with Iran.
01:13That is what happened to Undersecretary of State Wendy Sherman.
01:16She will be joining us this hour.
01:18I've just been wondering what it feels like for her, for former Secretary of State John Kerry,
01:23who negotiated that deal, President Obama, to be watching this tonight.
01:28Yeah, especially, you know, with the U.S. having done this...
01:32having started this war and done what they've done.
01:34I mean, one of the things that jumped out at me today is it does not appear
01:37that the United States has bombed any nuclear sites in this war thus far,
01:42even though they're still sometimes slipping up and saying,
01:45oh, yeah, we're doing this war to stop the nuclear program.
01:48I mean, the incoherence from the administration combined with the recklessness of what they're doing
01:54is just... I would very much like to hear what Wendy Sherman has to say about it.
01:59And Roe Kahn is going to join us.
02:02He and the House of Representatives, who had success forcing the Epstein file's release,
02:08now is teaming up with Thomas Massey, a Republican, to force a vote on Donald Trump's war powers
02:14and to restrict his ability to do this.
02:18We'll see how that one goes.
02:19He's going to join us tonight.
02:21Lawrence, you have too much show.
02:22You don't have time to talk to me.
02:23You better go.
02:23Not to mention Senator Mark Kelly, Carson Adam Smith, and so on.
02:27Rachel, see you tomorrow night.
02:29Bye, Lawrence.
02:30Go, go, go.
02:32And so, on the third day of his war against Iran, speaking in the majestic East Room of
02:38the White House, Donald Trump reminded the world of what is most important to him.
02:47We have a lot of great service members here with us, too, in this beautiful building.
02:52Isn't it beautiful?
02:54We're adding on to the building a little bit.
02:56We're improving the building.
02:58See that nice drape?
03:00When that comes down right now, you see a very, very deep hole, but in about a year
03:05and a half from now, you're going to see a very, very beautiful building, and there's
03:09your entrance to it right there.
03:10In fact, it looks so nice, I don't think I'll even—I think I'll save money on the doors
03:14because it can't get more beautiful than that.
03:17I picked those drapes in my first term.
03:20I always like gold, but I think we can save a lot of money.
03:24I just saved—I just saved curtains.
03:28But, and it will be, it'll be spectacular.
03:30It'll be the most beautiful ballroom.
03:32I believe it's because I built many a ballroom.
03:34I believe it's going to be the most beautiful ballroom anywhere in the world.
03:40The only president in history who, in the third day of a war, is talking to the world about drapes
03:51that he chose.
03:55When Donald Trump illegally launched his war, he said this.
04:02We may have casualties that often happens in war.
04:09And today, Donald Trump's defense secretary said this.
04:14As the president warned, an effort of this scope will include casualties.
04:20War is hell, and always will be.
04:25The defense secretary also said today that there are, quote—these are his words—
04:34And that means the American military under Donald Trump will be operating under the same no rules of engagement used
04:41by Adolf Hitler's forces in World War II against Americans.
04:45When Donald Trump was speaking lovingly about drapes this afternoon, the publicly announced death toll of American military personnel in
04:56Donald Trump's war was four.
04:59And later today, after Donald Trump was talking about his love of his drapes, that number was raised to six.
05:08And Donald Trump has not said a word about those lost lives since that number moved up to six today.
05:17Donald Trump and his secretary of defense have both repeatedly referred to what they are doing in Iran as a
05:23war,
05:23which neither of them seem to understand as a way of emphasizing just how unconstitutional and illegal it is.
05:30Writing in Politico, Ankhush Khadori, a former federal prosecutor, says,
05:35In fact, the U.S. attack on Iran crosses multiple legal lines, both domestically and internationally.
05:41The U.S. Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war, not the president.
05:45The Trump administration's war also cannot be squared with the War Powers Resolution of 1973,
05:51which allows the president to initiate hostilities abroad only when there has been, one, a declaration of war,
05:57two, specific statutory authorization, or three, a national emergency created by attack upon the United States,
06:05its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
06:08Trump did not even attempt to argue that any of these conditions had been met.
06:13But as for the killing of Khamenei, that also appears to have been illegal under international law,
06:20which generally prohibits killing heads of state.
06:23After a closed-door briefing by Donald Trump's secretary of state and secretary of defense,
06:28Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat in the Senate Intelligence Committee, said this.
06:34There was no imminent threat to the United States of America by the Iranians.
06:45There was a threat to Israel.
06:49But if we equate a threat to Israel as the equivalent of an imminent threat to the United States,
06:58then we are in uncharted territory.
07:02This being Donald Trump's war, of course,
07:05Donald Trump has changed the possible time frame of his war from days to months.
07:10The fact that Donald Trump is a proven pathological liar,
07:13combined with the fact that he is demonstrably incompetent,
07:16makes it very unlikely that Donald Trump tonight has any idea at all
07:21how long his war will last or what it might accomplish.
07:26Donald Trump has given a variety of reasons for launching his war,
07:30including regime change.
07:31But Donald Trump is calling on the Iranian people to deliver regime change for him.
07:39To the members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard,
07:43the armed forces and all of the police,
07:46I say tonight that you must lay down your weapons and have complete immunity
07:51or, in the alternative, face certain death.
07:55So, lay down your arms.
07:58You will be treated fairly with total immunity or you will face certain death.
08:07How about lay down your arms and face certain death?
08:12Lay down their arms to whom?
08:15If an Iranian soldier puts his rifle on the ground, who's going to pick it up?
08:20Would it be picked up by one of the millions of opponents of the regime
08:25who would then immediately use that weapon to shoot and kill that soldier who put it down?
08:34Trump told the Iranian military,
08:36you will be treated fairly with total immunity.
08:39Treated fairly by whom?
08:41With total immunity granted by whom?
08:45There is not a person in Iran, in the military, or an opponent of the military,
08:50who can take a word of what Donald Trump said seriously.
08:54And then there is this.
08:58Finally, to the great, proud people of Iran,
09:01I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand.
09:05Stay sheltered.
09:07Don't leave your home.
09:08It's very dangerous outside.
09:10Bombs will be dropping everywhere.
09:12When we are finished, take over your government.
09:15It will be yours to take.
09:17This will be probably your only chance for generations.
09:22For many years, you have asked for America's help, but you never got it.
09:27No president was willing to do what I am willing to do tonight.
09:31Now you have a president who is giving you what you want.
09:35So let's see how you respond.
09:37America is backing you with overwhelming strength and devastating force.
09:43Now is the time to seize control of your destiny and to unleash the prosperous and glorious future
09:49that is close within your reach.
09:52This is the moment for action.
09:54Do not let it pass.
09:57Imagine, if you will, any one of Donald Trump's brave sons or daughters or Donald Trump himself
10:05living in Iran tonight, not yet killed by a bomb.
10:11Is that what Donald Trump Jr. would do?
10:13Run out there and, quote, take over your government?
10:16Is that what 19-year-old Barron Trump would do?
10:21Quote, seize control of your destiny?
10:23Would Barron Trump's mother let him go out into the streets of Iran and seize control of his destiny?
10:31She won't even let him enlist in the American military and serve in his father's war.
10:37So not only is Donald Trump telling people to do something that he and no one in his family would
10:43ever do,
10:44he is leaving the entire burden of his war on the people he is bombing tonight.
10:50To wait until Donald Trump is finished bombing them and then take over your government.
10:58It will be yours to take.
11:02We have been in this delusion before.
11:07There's another way for the bloodshed to stop.
11:11And that is for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands
11:18and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator, to step aside and then comply with the United Nations resolutions
11:25and rejoin the family of peace-loving nations.
11:31That did not happen.
11:32And when that president finished bombing Iraq, Saddam Hussein remained in power
11:39until that president's son became president
11:43and said this when he launched his war against Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
11:52We come to Iraq with respect for its citizens, for their great civilization
11:57and for the religious faiths they practice.
12:01We have no ambition in Iraq except to remove a threat
12:05and restore control of that country to its own people.
12:10Republican presidents launching wars never fail to pledge their friendship
12:15to the people they are bombing.
12:19The oppressed people of Afghanistan will know the generosity of America and our allies.
12:24As we strike military targets, we will also drop food, medicine and supplies
12:29to the starving and suffering men and women and children of Afghanistan.
12:33The United States of America is a friend to the Afghan people.
12:38Tonight, the people of Cuba should probably be planning where they will hide from the bombs
12:45when American friendship comes their way.
12:50Leading off our discussion tonight is Senator Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona,
12:53a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee.
12:58Senator, from your position, have you been able to obtain information
13:03that makes it clear to you what this war is about?
13:08Lawrence, thank you for having me on.
13:10It's certainly not clear yet.
13:13I'll get a brief tomorrow along with my Senate colleagues from the Secretary of Defense and State.
13:20But I don't expect more clarity here.
13:24You know, this has been a few days of a lot of, you know, changing positions by the administration.
13:32Like, why did they get into this?
13:34You know, what are we getting out of it?
13:35You know, I'd like to see an explanation to the American people about how is this conflict
13:41on the other side of the world going to help them with their health care costs,
13:46with the cost of food and rent?
13:49How is it going to improve their lives?
13:53That's, to be honest with you, that's what I would really like to hear from this administration.
13:59Well, we did hear from Donald Trump today about his drapes
14:02and about his ballroom that he's so excited about.
14:05We heard nothing about the increase in gasoline prices that is coming our way because of this war.
14:13Yeah, Lawrence, this is such a consequential decision to send young men and women off to war.
14:20I remember back in 1991, right before the first Gulf War, I was a pilot on an aircraft carrier.
14:28And I remember how hard it was on my commanding officer.
14:32He wasn't the guy who even had to make the decision.
14:34He was just in charge of a bunch of young pilots and bombardier navigators.
14:39And it was really, really challenging for him because he knew that there was a reasonable chance
14:45that some of us weren't going to come back.
14:46And this president is down there at Mar-a-Lago.
14:51He's talking about his ballroom.
14:53I presume he was playing golf.
14:54And now we're, you know, three days into this thing.
14:57And he doesn't seem focused on it.
14:59This is like the most serious stuff that a president ever does,
15:04is send people off to, you know, to fight overseas.
15:08And in this case, you know, what I see is no plan.
15:12There's no endgame here.
15:14There's no strategic vision for what we're supposed to get out of this and how it's supposed to end.
15:21And what I worry about is escalation, where we wind up with troops on the ground in Iran fighting who,
15:29even?
15:29The IRGC, you know, I think the president at this point really owes it to the American people to have
15:37a serious discussion
15:38about why has he decided to do this?
15:43The I think that obviously isn't coming.
15:47Every other president who's engaged in anything like this has had that discussion before they engaged to this point.
15:56Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that's the case, right?
16:00But, you know, Donald Trump is a, you know, unique individual.
16:03And I think he's not suited to be the leader of our country, right?
16:07I certainly didn't vote for him.
16:08And I think he's the wrong person for the job for a lot of different reasons.
16:12And in my view, when he tries to do something that's pretty significant, he screws it up.
16:17Immigration enforcement, what happened in L.A. and Minneapolis, has been a disaster.
16:24I mean, ICE now needs to be totally overhauled because this guy cannot manage anything.
16:31And now he's going to try to manage a war overseas.
16:34We've got the American people have to be evacuated out of 14 different countries.
16:39And by the way, he's the guy that set up the conditions that got us into whatever this situation is
16:45to begin with
16:46because he tore up the Iran nuclear deal as soon as he became president the first time.
16:54Senator Mark Kelly, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
16:59Thank you for having me on.
17:01And joining us now is Congressman Adam Smith, Democrat from the state of Washington.
17:05He's the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee.
17:09Congressman Smith, with your expertise in these armed services matters, what sense have you made of this so far?
17:18Well, and we got a brief today.
17:19I was in the briefing that Secretary Rubio, Pete Hegseth, CIA Director Radcliffe, and Chairman Cain gave, which laid it
17:28out.
17:29My biggest sense is they have a whole bunch of different rationales for why they're doing this,
17:34and they don't have a clear sense of what it is they're trying to accomplish.
17:37And Senator Kelly's absolutely right.
17:40President Trump sort of did this on a whim without making any effort to make the case to the American
17:45people or Congress or to Congress as to why.
17:49Now they keep saying, you know, we have specific objectives and we're going to go at it until we achieve
17:54those objectives.
17:55They have not made clear what those objectives are.
17:58It's moved around a lot.
17:59Is it regime change?
18:00And I think in your opening monologue, you laid out the major flaws with regime change as the objective here.
18:08Is it to stop their nuclear program?
18:10Is it to stop ballistic missiles?
18:12And how will we know when we've achieved it?
18:14So we don't have that.
18:16And the second big thing is this has spread.
18:19Now we have Hezbollah and Israel back at war.
18:21We have all of the Gulf states facing an endless flow of drones and missiles.
18:27They can defend against some, but they can't defend against all of it.
18:30The Middle East is embroiled in a war they haven't seen in 60 years because Donald Trump made a rash
18:35decision without an adequate explanation for why or what the goal is.
18:39So, Congressman Smith, you were in a briefing with the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, and those things that
18:46are vague to us and that have been shifting since it started with Donald Trump's public comments about trying to
18:53stop a nuclear program or trying to have regime change.
18:56You came out of that with no more clarity.
18:59You couldn't get a clear response from them about this is the objective.
19:04When this objective is achieved, it's over.
19:08You couldn't get an answer to that?
19:09Well, I have a best guess, but then also I did not get that clear sense of, OK, when is
19:16it going to be achieved?
19:17I mean, the best way to sort of sum it up in terms of what I think they're trying to
19:21do is they want to punch Iran in the face.
19:24They want to weaken them as much as possible.
19:26So the hope is that at the end of it, no matter who is in charge of Iran, they will
19:32be basically bent to our will.
19:36They'll be afraid to do anything.
19:37And there's a thousand different flaws with that approach.
19:39First of all, we don't know what the government's going to be.
19:42Second of all, to your point, he's telling all the people of Iran, rise up, take your government.
19:46That's not actually what he's building for here.
19:49All they're going to do is rise up and get slaughtered by the IRGC because there is no plan to
19:53actually remove them from power.
19:55So I think that is basically it.
19:58Now, they've been dishonest about it.
20:00They haven't even told us where Iran was at with their nuclear weapons.
20:02And also, when do you achieve that objective that I just described?
20:07Is it when 80 percent of their missiles are gone?
20:10Is it when their nuclear program is once again obliterated?
20:14Is it when half of the leadership is killed, half of the IRGC is killed?
20:19That is what there was no clarity on whatsoever.
20:23When are these objectives going to be achieved?
20:25And meanwhile, while they're trying to achieve these undefined objectives, people are dying.
20:30The entire region is in chaos.
20:32And it's also impacting the globe.
20:34Not just is Trump not dealing with the affordability crisis in housing, but what he's doing is going to drive
20:40prices up even further.
20:41Oil, natural gas, the general disruption of trade throughout the region is going to hurt Americans.
20:49Congressman Adam Smith, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
20:53Thanks, Marks.
20:54And coming up, we are here tonight because Donald Trump decided to violate an agreement President Obama and five other
21:02countries reached with Iran, preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
21:07Ambassador Wendy Sherman, who helped negotiate that deal, joins us next.
21:16Donald Trump says he is, quote, very disappointed.
21:19Those are his words.
21:20Disappointed in British Prime Minister Keir Starmer for refusing to join Donald Trump's illegal war against Iran.
21:28Donald Trump wanted to use the joint United States-United Kingdom military base on the British-controlled island of Diego
21:36Garcia in the Indian Ocean.
21:38The British Prime Minister refused to allow that, and today, in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister said this.
21:46The United Kingdom was not involved in the initial strikes on Iran by the U.S. and Israel.
21:52That decision was deliberate.
21:56We believe that the best way forward for the region and for the world is a negotiated settlement in which
22:05Iran agrees to give up any aspirations to develop a nuclear weapon and ceases its destabilizing activity across the region.
22:13This government does not believe in regime change from the skies, and I thank him for his question.
22:19The lessons of history have taught us that it is important when we make decisions like this that we establish
22:27there is a lawful basis for what the United Kingdom is doing.
22:32The British government was one of the countries that joined the Iran deal negotiated by Secretary of State John Kerry
22:39and then Undersecretary of State Wendy Sherman, which prohibited Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
22:45That deal was signed by President Obama, signed by the United States and Iran, along with the United Kingdom, France,
22:52Germany, China, and Russia in 2015.
22:55And in Donald Trump's first year in the presidency, he ripped up that deal in what was the most reckless
23:02diplomatic act by a president in the 21st century, or perhaps ever.
23:07And then Donald Trump immediately began threatening Iran.
23:11Not one of the American allies that joined President Obama in signing the Iran deal joined Donald Trump's war against
23:21Iran.
23:21Joining us now is Ambassador Wendy Sherman, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State.
23:26She served as the chief U.S. negotiator for the 2015 Iran nuclear deal in the Obama administration.
23:33Ambassador Sherman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
23:36And I just want to open the microphone to your thoughts about where we are tonight and where we might
23:41be if Donald Trump had never ripped up the Iran deal.
23:46Well, thank you, Lawrence.
23:48You know, tonight, my heart is going out to the human beings that are involved in all of this.
23:55The people of Iran who want a better future.
23:58The families of the Sixth Service people who were killed.
24:05To my former colleagues and American citizens in 14 countries who are told to evacuate with very little help from
24:14the United States government to do that with airports closed all over the place.
24:18When I was deputy secretary, when I was under secretary, every morning I would wake up, read the intelligence, figure
24:24out who was going to be safe that day, who wasn't going to be safe that day, what we needed
24:28to do.
24:29And diplomacy is not about drinking wine at receptions.
24:34It's about very tough, hard-nosed negotiations, which is what, under President Obama, Secretary Clinton, Secretary Kerry, and a terrific
24:44team and thousands of people in our government, we were able to do in that deal to ensure that Iran
24:50would never have a nuclear weapon.
24:52The President Trump has said that Iran needs to say it will never have a nuclear weapon.
24:57In fact, the preamble of that 2015 agreement says that, has Iran saying, that it will not ever get, develop,
25:08or acquire a nuclear weapon.
25:11It's said that words many times.
25:12Now, one can't trust that language.
25:16You have to verify it, monitor it.
25:18And the International Atomic Energy Agency had done that.
25:22We were on a path, a hard path, that would need a lot of constant monitoring to know you would
25:30get there.
25:30But at the end of the day, it would put us in a much safer place and open channels with
25:36Iran to discuss all of the terrible things that that regime has done.
25:40Now, one always needs a credible threat of force in a tough negotiation, but the use of force should be
25:49the last alternative, the last resort, not the first one.
25:53And President Trump has now used military action in, I think, eight or nine countries.
26:02And he has said most recently that he sees the Maduro extraction out of Venezuela as the template.
26:11If that is the template for Iran, that means that the president will find someone he feels he can deal
26:19with to get what, I'm not sure.
26:21Maybe Iran's oil in the same way he wants Venezuela's oil.
26:24But what will that mean for the people of Iran who have been under such a terrible, terrible time?
26:31Thousands killed in the protests.
26:34Ostensibly, President Trump began by saying he had their back.
26:38What he's doing is making their lives worse, not better.
26:44Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
26:48Thank you, Lawrence.
26:50And coming up, Congressman Ro Khanna is pushing a House vote against Donald Trump's war in Iran.
26:55Ro Khanna says that after Bill and Hillary Clinton's testimony to the House Oversight Committee,
27:00Mr. and Mrs. Donald Trump should testify in the committee's Epstein investigation.
27:06That's next.
27:11Yesterday, Republican Congressman Thomas Massey tweeted,
27:15bombing a country on the other side of the globe won't make the Epstein files go away any more than
27:21the Dow going above 50,000 will.
27:23Today, the House Oversight Committee released video of the depositions of President Bill Clinton
27:28and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who had a suggestion for the committee about Donald Trump.
27:36I think that it would be in keeping with the scope of the investigation of this committee to set up
27:49a deposition with President Trump.
27:51I know he's been deposed many, many, many, many times he's taken the Fifth Amendment many, many hundreds of times.
27:58So I'm not saying you're going to get a lot of information.
28:01But given what's in the files and given past and prior conduct, he would be on my witness list.
28:15Hillary Clinton worked on the Congressional Committee investigating Republican President Richard Nixon for his criminality,
28:23which eventually forced Nixon to resign the presidency.
28:26And so she knows how these kind of investigative hearings are supposed to be conducted and how to assemble a
28:33witness list for such investigations.
28:36Bill Clinton might be the first witness who has testified to the committee about what Donald Trump told him about
28:44Jeffrey Epstein.
28:47The president never, this is 20-something years ago, never said anything to me to make me think he was
28:54involved in anything in profit with regard to Epstein either.
29:00He just didn't. He just said we were friends.
29:04And then we had a falling out over a land deal, property deal.
29:08Could I ask very briefly, Mr. President, if you recall, what were the circumstances of that conversation?
29:14Or at least let's start with when did the conversation occur?
29:17We were on his golf course.
29:22And there were a couple of years there when Joe Torrey, who had been the manager of the Yankees,
29:30and was a friend and had a tournament, a charity golf tournament,
29:36called appropriately for this investigation, the Safe at Home Foundation.
29:42And it was designed to combat domestic violence, of which Joe Torrey had been a victim as a child.
29:55And so, I wanted to support him.
30:00So, Donald Trump gave him the golf course in New York to have a tournament on,
30:06and I played in it a couple of times.
30:09And the day I was there, he would typically,
30:15Donald Trump would come out and play a few holes with us.
30:19And he somehow knew I had flown in Jeffrey Epstein's aircraft.
30:25And he said, you know, we had some great times together over the years,
30:29but we fell out all because of a real estate deal.
30:35And he said, I'm sorry it happened.
30:38That's all.
30:41Today, MS Now's Alex Tabat found that voters in North Carolina,
30:45who will be voting in primary elections tomorrow,
30:48have not forgotten about the Epstein files.
30:53What do you think President Trump is trying to distract from?
30:57The Epstein files.
30:58The Epstein files.
31:00I'm not quite sure, to be honest,
31:02but I think the Epstein files are absolutely a big part of it in all of what we are seeing.
31:09Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California.
31:12He is co-sponsor with Congressman Thomas Massey of a resolution
31:16that would limit Donald Trump's ability to wage war in Iran without congressional approval.
31:22First of all, Congressman Conno, let's go to the situation in Iran.
31:26What are you and Congressman Massey going to be able to accomplish in the House?
31:30Lawrence, the vote is on Thursday.
31:32We're hoping to get a majority to say stop the war in Iran.
31:36Remember that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance ran as the peace candidates.
31:41They said that Vice President Harris was going to get us into a war in Iran and cause World War
31:47III.
31:48Never in the modern history of this country has someone lied as blatantly in one office on such a false
31:54pretense.
31:55The American people don't want people dying for a war in the Middle East.
31:59And they don't want our billions of dollars going on bombs there instead of housing here, jobs here, childcare here.
32:05I believe we're going to have close to a unified Democratic caucus and we have the chance of getting a
32:09few Republican votes.
32:10So Donald Trump's given a bunch of reasons about why he did this.
32:14He didn't mention Jeffrey Epstein as one of the reasons why he has done this.
32:19But clearly that's one of his hopes, is that he will divert our attention from this.
32:25Congressman Massey has promised that will not work.
32:27It will not work.
32:29And he realizes that with President Clinton testifying, the pressure is mounting for him to testify.
32:37That's why he didn't want the Clintons to testify.
32:40And by the way, Secretary Clinton was so restrained.
32:42I mean, she should never have been called.
32:44She never met Jeffrey Epstein.
32:46You know who did meet Epstein and was all over the files?
32:49Donald Trump.
32:50And so...
32:51And Melania Trump.
32:52And Melania Trump.
32:53And both of them need to be called to ask basic questions.
32:57Why is it that he had a falling out?
32:59Because President Clinton's account of why Donald Trump had a falling out with Jeffrey Epstein
33:04is very different than the account that Donald Trump has been giving.
33:07Why are those files missing of the woman who accused him of rape when she was a minor?
33:14Again, an accusation.
33:15But why is it that three of those witness interviews are missing?
33:18And with the First Lady, we'll be respectful, but she has to answer some basic questions.
33:24Because unlike First Lady Clinton, Secretary Clinton, she actually knew Epstein.
33:28What was her relationship?
33:30What was...
33:30Did she know about Epstein's abuse?
33:33Well, Donald Trump says, at least he told the police chief in Florida, that everyone
33:39knew.
33:39When he discovered that they were already investigating Epstein, Donald Trump then says
33:44everyone knew.
33:45Well, everyone would include his wife, Melania Trump.
33:48It would include his wife, and it would include his cabinet member, Howard Lutnake, who years
33:53afterwards is out there doing business.
33:55But I think that it's very appropriate to ask the First Lady Trump, when did she know?
34:01Why did she continue to have an engagement with him?
34:04Did she know if there were other young girls who were being abused?
34:08And what was the relationship between her and President Trump and Epstein?
34:14I mean, we need to know these details, just as a matter of fact.
34:19So, I don't remember any other testimony where a witness has told the committee, that we
34:24know about, about a conversation with Donald Trump about Jeffrey Epstein.
34:29Was Bill Clinton's testimony on that golf course point the first testimony like that?
34:34That, yes.
34:35To my knowledge, that was the first point.
34:37And his testimony contradicts what Donald Trump was saying.
34:41And by the way, President Clinton wasn't trying to get Donald Trump in trouble.
34:44He said, I don't know if he's done anything wrong.
34:46But this is what he told me.
34:48Well, it turns out that's not what he's telling the American people.
34:51Carson Ro Khanna, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
34:54And coming up, tomorrow is election night.
34:57Texas Democratic State Representative James Tallarico, who is running for the United States
35:01Senate in Texas, will join us next.
35:03His opponent in the Democratic primary, Representative Jasmine Crockett, was also invited to join MS
35:09Now this evening at whatever time she could.
35:11But she was unable to do that in her schedule.
35:14So, James Tallarico is joining us next.
35:20New polling shows 59% disapproval for Donald Trump's war in Iran as voters go to the polls
35:28in important primary elections tomorrow in Texas and North Carolina.
35:31Here is a former Trump voter today in North Carolina giving her opinion of Donald Trump's war in Iran.
35:42I think it's just, it's absolutely horrifying and I don't, I don't really have anything else.
35:51It's horrifying to see.
35:54And I don't know what other kind of wake-up call we need at this point.
36:00Besides that, I mean, it shouldn't have to come to killing women and children to know that we need change.
36:09And it's disgusting.
36:11Trump doesn't care.
36:12He's not caring about the lives that he's putting in there and risking their lives.
36:17It's all about the power.
36:21Polls close tomorrow night at 7.30 p.m. in North Carolina and at 8 p.m. Eastern time in
36:27most of Texas
36:28and at 9 p.m. Eastern time in West Texas.
36:31We will be eagerly covering the elections right here on MS Now as the votes are counted tomorrow night.
36:38And joining us now on the final night of his primary campaign is Texas State Representative James Tallarico,
36:45who's a Democratic candidate for United States Senate.
36:48Thank you very much for joining us tonight as your campaign and the primary for the nomination comes to a
36:55close.
36:55What you just heard from that Trump voter in North Carolina,
37:00is that what you've been hearing from voters in Texas this weekend or anything like that?
37:07That's exactly what I'm hearing.
37:08I can't tell you the number of people who come up to me at the end of these events
37:13and tell me that they're not a Democrat, that they're an independent, they're a Republican,
37:18or they voted for Donald Trump in the last election,
37:20but they are fed up with the extremism and the corruption in our government.
37:26And so there is a bipartisan backlash growing in the state of Texas and across this country.
37:32And it's our job to harness that backlash to produce results at the ballot box
37:37so that we can finally have a check on this administration and on this president's power.
37:43What is your view of this new war in Iran?
37:48Well, you know, as a millennial, I saw how military disasters like the Iraq war robbed this nation
37:55of young lives, of billions of dollars, and of our moral standing in the world.
38:01You know, last week, I was in Sand Branch, Texas, which doesn't have any running water,
38:07doesn't have basic sewer infrastructure.
38:09Every dollar that we spend bombing people in the Middle East is a dollar that we are not spending
38:16on our communities right here at home.
38:18Not only have American troops lost their lives in the Middle East this weekend,
38:23but so did innocent schoolchildren in Iran.
38:26We can support the democracy movement in Iran.
38:29We can ensure that Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon.
38:34And we can make sure that we're not spending trillions of dollars on another foreign adventure
38:40in the Middle East.
38:42If you were in the Senate, would you vote to limit the president's power to wage this war?
38:49I would.
38:50And, you know, our Constitution is clear that it's Congress that has the power to declare war.
38:55And so this administration, this president, should make their case for why they believe
39:00this military intervention is necessary and why other avenues won't work.
39:06Diplomacy, economic sanctions, partnering with our allies around the world,
39:12they should make their case out in public to the people's representatives.
39:15Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
39:17And I think we've seen for far too long in this country rogue executive branches that are
39:23going in alone and not working with the legislative branch.
39:26That has to end.
39:27It's how we're going to stop these forever wars.
39:30You know, I can't think of a situation like this where a war was launched in the final weekend
39:36of a campaign that you and you've had to deal with that as all the other candidates have had
39:42to deal with it.
39:43How how has it changed your closing message in this campaign?
39:49Well, I think it's underscored the stakes.
39:51You know, these are not ordinary times in our politics.
39:54And I think people across the state of Texas, across the country, understand that we need
40:00to meet this historic moment.
40:02And it's why we have to bring people together.
40:05That's the only way we're going to win political power.
40:07It's the only way we're going to check this rogue executive branch.
40:11It's the only way we're going to get back to our constitutional principles.
40:15And that's a lot bigger than the Democratic Party.
40:18It's a lot bigger than the Republican Party.
40:19This is about whether or not we're going to save the American experiment in self-governance
40:24going forward.
40:25And I am so inspired by the number of Texans across the state, across the political spectrum,
40:32who are stepping up and standing up and speaking out.
40:35I think we're going to do something really special here in Texas in November.
40:40So we've seen a massive early vote in Texas on both sides, a record-setting early vote
40:46on the Democratic side and on the Republican side, bigger on the Democratic side.
40:50What is your reading of that?
40:53Well, and if you really dig into these numbers, what's most exciting to me is the surge in young
40:58people voting in a primary for the first time here in Texas.
41:02We're seeing young people step up all over the state.
41:06It's millennials like me, but it's also Gen Zers who really feel the stakes.
41:10Not only this new war in the Middle East, but the secret police force that is terrorizing
41:16people all over our state, all over our country.
41:19The rising price of everything, not just groceries, but the rising price of health care and of
41:25child care and of housing.
41:26People are being locked out of the American dream.
41:28And so people really understand what's at stake here, and they're coming together to
41:33be a part of this movement that we're building.
41:35I think you're seeing the beginnings of that with these unprecedented numbers of people showing
41:40up to early vote.
41:41I think you're going to see big numbers tomorrow.
41:44And then all of that is going to accumulate and really show people what Texas is made of
41:50in November of this year when we flip this state.
41:53Texas Senate candidate James Tallarico, thank you very much for joining us on what turns out
41:58to be your final night of campaigning in the primary election.
42:02Thank you very much.
42:03I appreciate you.
42:06And tomorrow night, Rachel Maddow will lead special election coverage of the primaries
42:10in Texas, North Carolina, and Arkansas.
42:12MS Now's election coverage begins tomorrow at 7 p.m. Eastern.
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