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  • 4 days ago
Filming The Trial 1981
Transcript
00:00:06good evening thank you for coming there are two bikes does that mean they're both mine or are we
00:00:15one is for the way making of the trial we're just a few stories about it and it would seem
00:00:23to me
00:00:23that this was the best place to get some questions and and try some answers you know hope not to
00:00:33bore
00:00:33you my cinematographer mr. Gary Graver all right real real one take one okay again I never did
00:00:43that very well all right okay any questions yes sir I noticed there were classical elements of the
00:01:04music in the score and also jazz and I was wondering how you decided on the different elements and where
00:01:09each type of music would go in the film well you know that's a there are two ways of answering
00:01:18that
00:01:19kind of question one is pompously to pretend that I had a master plan and the other is to admit
00:01:28that
00:01:29I put it in where I thought it would sound good you know which sounds like making the question but
00:01:36is
00:01:36the truth the basis of course is the is the Jesualdo which is the basic music of it which became
00:01:46a hit
00:01:46as a result of that nobody had ever heard it and there was one very limited record of it and
00:01:53after
00:01:53that it was but Europe it was played all over like a hit tune in fact a lot more people
00:01:59heard that music
00:02:00that saw the movie anywhere that's it's extraordinary piece of music because it's a it's a it's got musical
00:02:10ideas in it that didn't turn up again for 200 years and it's curiously romantic for baroque music and full
00:02:22of doom
00:02:23and and beauty and I liked it for the picture I don't know if I would now as you notice
00:02:30I came in afterwards I never
00:02:32like to see my movies because I like to remember them as being so much better than they really were
00:02:38and
00:02:40and that's true sir what inspired you to make the trial well that's a story I take you to the
00:02:52mountains
00:02:52of Austria where with my family I was enjoying the winter sports hoping I would be able to pay the
00:03:04hotel
00:03:04bill at the end of it and had just completed being interviewed by Oriana fellaci who had stated in
00:03:15the Italian press that I was undoubtedly the next American president my constituency at the time
00:03:26consisted of my wife and daughter so I didn't see much future in it for me and the White House
00:03:33and I was waiting for the phone to ring as it which is what all of you will be doing
00:03:40if all of you
00:03:41are rash enough to go into the film business and a family of people called the Salkins came into my
00:03:52life
00:03:53they are a dynasty of filmmakers old man Salkins who was an adorable little old gentleman
00:04:03who hadn't paid a bill in about 32 years
00:04:09but loved movies genuinely loved movies and his son Alexander
00:04:18came to see me now the old man Salkin has gone to dwell beyond the morning stars and Alexander is
00:04:27a sort of
00:04:28dean of the Salkin tribe because it's his son who has made the supermans and the millions and millions
00:04:35and so on that the Salkins have made the old man the adorable old man had made the a famous
00:04:44movie at least
00:04:46in my youth and the textbooks on movies it was considered a great movie which was the Don Quixote of
00:04:53Charliapin and he had made the first Garbo movie and he had a distinguished career
00:05:00they had then escaped from Europe and become Mexican film producers where they'd made
00:05:08about 40 Mexican pictures the quality of which I'm not prepared to speak about
00:05:18they arrived in this little tiny Austrian Alpine village in a taxi cab which they had taken from from Innsbruck
00:05:32and for which they did not have the money to pay this is really true and that didn't come out
00:05:40till later
00:05:42and they said we want you to make Taras Bulba
00:05:47and uh well Taras Bulba is a wonderful story
00:05:51uh Gogol is my favorite Russian writer
00:05:54and I thought that's absolutely wonderful these people have come all the way up into the Alps
00:05:58they're all ready to make Taras Bulba
00:06:00splendid and I started to write a script of it
00:06:04and then
00:06:08I must stop and say that they had to borrow the money to get the
00:06:12in the cab back to Innsbruck
00:06:14but that was supposed to be because
00:06:17of problems with the exchange
00:06:20they hadn't been able to get Austrian shillings or something
00:06:24later I was to discover that they didn't have any money at all
00:06:30which I think is admirable
00:06:33you know here they were making a trip across Europe
00:06:36coming to ask me to make a movie for which they didn't have a cent
00:06:40they didn't even have to eat
00:06:43and uh they came back again in another taxi
00:06:48and they said we've just read that Yul Brynner is making Taras Bulba in the Argentine
00:06:56which indeed he did
00:06:57I saw a little piece of it for the first time the other night on television
00:07:00it was pretty bad
00:07:02but uh there it was
00:07:04uh uh uh Taras Bulba
00:07:07they said we can't have two of them
00:07:09I said that's true
00:07:12they said we have here a list of movies
00:07:15we are ready to finance
00:07:17you pick up the out the one you like
00:07:20they didn't say what do you want to make
00:07:22they said here is our list
00:07:25and I said I couldn't add to this list any
00:07:28no they said here they are
00:07:30and there were about 82 titles
00:07:35most of which were impossible
00:07:38and the most likely of which was the trial
00:07:42so I said we'll do the trial
00:07:46so we made the trial
00:07:50and I know that kind of answer
00:07:52is very disappointing
00:07:54because you want to think of a film maker
00:07:57as having studied at his library
00:08:00the work which sings the most perfect song to him
00:08:04and uh that I had spent my life wanting to realize Kafka on the screen
00:08:10I'd never given a thought to it
00:08:14but it was uh
00:08:17it was a book I admired
00:08:18a writer I admired
00:08:20and I was a challenge
00:08:21I was very happy to accept
00:08:23and challenge indeed it was
00:08:25because
00:08:27we went to Yugoslavia to shoot it
00:08:30and I designed all the scenery
00:08:33which was going to be physically a very different movie
00:08:38uh the scenery was going to come
00:08:40begins coming slightly apart all the time
00:08:43so it was sort of flying away into the darkness
00:08:47it was very elaborate
00:08:48and uh I think interesting
00:08:52maybe maybe pretentious uh visual idea for it
00:08:55and all of this was to have been built by the Yugoslavs
00:09:00and we did those Yugoslav scenes
00:09:02which did not require sets
00:09:05we needed an enormous building
00:09:07where we could do that office scene
00:09:09where all the people are typing
00:09:10you know
00:09:12and they did indeed get from Olivetti
00:09:1510,000 typewriters
00:09:17and 10,000 uh uh desks and all that
00:09:21we shot that
00:09:22and then the Yugoslavs did a trick
00:09:24which they sometimes do
00:09:26I don't mean the Yugoslavs as a race
00:09:29I mean the Yugoslavs as producers
00:09:31because like all people who have lived under occupation
00:09:36for a long time
00:09:38the Irish for instance
00:09:41and particularly
00:09:44uh the Yugoslavs had lived for 400 years
00:09:47under the Turks
00:09:50and uh we must understand
00:09:53that all people who are occupied for a long time
00:09:57learn as an act of honor
00:09:59to steal from strangers
00:10:03quite seriously
00:10:04in other words
00:10:05they won't steal from each other
00:10:06but it's a stranger comes
00:10:08with a lot of money from Hollywood
00:10:10or whatever it is
00:10:11steal if you can
00:10:13and uh in the case of the trial
00:10:17they did what they did to
00:10:18hundreds of Italian co-producers
00:10:20they got us right up to the day
00:10:23when we were going to be in the studio
00:10:25which we never got to see
00:10:26for some mysterious reason
00:10:28it was always a breakdown of a car
00:10:31so we never got to look at it
00:10:34finally they came to that day
00:10:35and they said
00:10:35we made a miscalculation in the money
00:10:38and we need another $300,000
00:10:42well
00:10:43the Salkins didn't have the money
00:10:45to pay our hotel bill in Zagreb
00:10:47much less
00:10:48for these sets
00:10:50which had not even begun
00:10:52to be built
00:10:54and the Yugoslavs believed
00:10:56that they had us
00:10:57by the well-known
00:11:00situation
00:11:03as indeed they'd done
00:11:05with many co-productions
00:11:06and so on
00:11:06and I said to
00:11:07to old man Salkin
00:11:11get a train
00:11:12the night train
00:11:13tickets on the night train
00:11:14don't say anything
00:11:15we're all leaving town
00:11:18so we all left town
00:11:20to the astonishment
00:11:22of the Yugoslavs
00:11:23who had expected
00:11:25that they'd be able to get
00:11:27the other half of the picture
00:11:28and own it
00:11:29in order to provide the sets
00:11:31so we arrived back in Paris
00:11:33there were no sets
00:11:35there was no money
00:11:37I should explain that
00:11:39in my reading of the book
00:11:43and of course everybody reads the book
00:11:45as a different book
00:11:46and my reading is probably
00:11:48more wrong
00:11:49than a lot of
00:11:50people's
00:11:52I see
00:11:54the monstrous bureaucracy
00:11:56which is the villain
00:11:58of the piece
00:12:00as not only
00:12:02Kafka's clairvoyant
00:12:04view of the future
00:12:07but his
00:12:09racial
00:12:10and cultural
00:12:12background
00:12:14of being
00:12:15occupied
00:12:17by the Austro-Hungarian Empire
00:12:20and I see
00:12:23the
00:12:23a curious combination
00:12:25of the book
00:12:26of
00:12:26an unthinkably
00:12:29sterile future
00:12:31combined with
00:12:32an unthinkably
00:12:34dusty
00:12:34accumulation
00:12:36of
00:12:37of
00:12:38those
00:12:39traditions
00:12:39which
00:12:40bureaucrats
00:12:41set up
00:12:41in order to
00:12:42perpetuate
00:12:43their
00:12:43their monstrous
00:12:44lives
00:12:45if I sound like
00:12:47our president
00:12:48I profoundly
00:12:49apologize
00:12:54so I have made
00:12:55a parenthesis here
00:12:57about that style
00:12:58to explain
00:12:59how it was
00:13:00that
00:13:03we
00:13:04came to do it
00:13:07we came to do it
00:13:08because I picked it
00:13:09out of a list
00:13:11and we shot
00:13:12most of it
00:13:13in Paris
00:13:14because I wanted
00:13:18a 19th century
00:13:20look
00:13:20to a great deal
00:13:21of what would be
00:13:22in fact
00:13:23expressionistic
00:13:25and in the first night
00:13:26in Paris
00:13:28I was in a hotel
00:13:29near the Seine
00:13:31and I am very
00:13:32very
00:13:33I hate to use
00:13:35the word superstitious
00:13:36because I take it
00:13:37more seriously
00:13:38I'm awfully serious
00:13:39about the moon
00:13:42I think the
00:13:43Robert Graves
00:13:44was right
00:13:45when he said
00:13:46that the most
00:13:47blasphemous thing
00:13:48that has happened
00:13:50since Alexander
00:13:51cut the Gordian knife
00:13:54Gordian knot
00:13:55was when we landed
00:13:56on the moon
00:14:00and having
00:14:01let loose
00:14:02with a piece
00:14:02of eccentricity
00:14:03of that kind
00:14:04you'll see
00:14:05who you're
00:14:05dealing with
00:14:09a point there
00:14:10is that
00:14:11the only name
00:14:13on the moon
00:14:13is Nixon
00:14:14and that they
00:14:15played golf
00:14:18anyway
00:14:21we are in Paris
00:14:22and I am looking
00:14:24out of the window
00:14:24at 3 in the morning
00:14:26wondering how we
00:14:26can shoot
00:14:27and I see
00:14:29two moons
00:14:31two full moons
00:14:36and I go out
00:14:37on the balcony
00:14:38of my hotel room
00:14:39and I see
00:14:40that they are
00:14:41the two clocks
00:14:42on the Gare d'Orsay
00:14:46I went downstairs
00:14:47got in a cab
00:14:48went to the Gare d'Orsay
00:14:50which was empty
00:14:52it only had two trains
00:14:53that came in a day
00:14:55and I wandered around
00:14:56and I saw that
00:14:57that was where
00:14:58the picture could be made
00:14:59so that is
00:15:00how it happened
00:15:02to be picked
00:15:03and why it happened
00:15:04to be made that way
00:15:06I'll try and give you
00:15:08a fast answer
00:15:08to the next one
00:15:09yes ma'am
00:15:10this might give you
00:15:12a chance
00:15:12for a short answer
00:15:14in this film
00:15:15Joseph Kay
00:15:16runs down
00:15:17that hallway
00:15:18with those
00:15:18alternating arched
00:15:20mirrors
00:15:20and in Citizen Kane
00:15:22that famous sequence
00:15:23there are no mirrors
00:15:25in that archway
00:15:26where she appears
00:15:27in between
00:15:28oh yes
00:15:29and you get
00:15:30the mirrors
00:15:31in Lady from Shanghai
00:15:32and in Citizen Kane
00:15:33I wonder if you would
00:15:34comment on
00:15:36maybe
00:15:37on the frequency
00:15:39of multiple mirrors
00:15:41that you use
00:15:42in a number
00:15:43of your films
00:15:44in which
00:15:44a man
00:15:45usually a man
00:15:46but a character
00:15:47in distress
00:15:47sees himself
00:15:49over and over
00:15:50and over
00:15:51in these mirrors
00:15:52does it mean
00:15:53is it
00:15:54I can give you
00:15:55an impressive answer
00:15:57which will embarrass me
00:16:00and I can also
00:16:02remind you
00:16:03that I'm a magician
00:16:04and that people say
00:16:06that everything
00:16:06a magician does
00:16:07is done with mirrors
00:16:09you know
00:16:11which is a frivolous answer
00:16:13and then I can try
00:16:14to give a serious answer
00:16:16which is
00:16:17that
00:16:17the camera
00:16:18is a peculiar
00:16:19kind of mirror
00:16:20and that
00:16:23turning the mirror
00:16:25on it
00:16:27seems to me
00:16:28a kind of
00:16:28a magical thing
00:16:29to do
00:16:31I can't tell you
00:16:32why
00:16:34way in the back
00:16:35I was wondering
00:16:36whether you thought
00:16:36there was
00:16:37enough sympathy
00:16:38for the main character
00:16:39in this film
00:16:40were you satisfied
00:16:41I didn't hear that
00:16:42enough difference between
00:16:43do you think
00:16:44that there was
00:16:45enough sympathy
00:16:45for the main character
00:16:47in this film
00:16:47were you satisfied
00:16:49no
00:16:49that's an interesting
00:16:50question
00:16:51and I'm glad
00:16:52you asked me that
00:16:57a strange thing
00:16:58happened with that movie
00:16:59it got wonderful press
00:17:00all over the world
00:17:01even in America
00:17:03even in Time
00:17:04and Newsweek
00:17:05and everything
00:17:06wonderful press
00:17:06and Perkins got
00:17:08very bad press
00:17:09all over the world
00:17:11and the entire blame
00:17:12for that is mine
00:17:14because he is
00:17:15a superlative actor
00:17:16and he played
00:17:18the character
00:17:18that I saw
00:17:19as Kay
00:17:22and paid the price
00:17:23because nobody else
00:17:24sees it my way
00:17:26I find in the book
00:17:29repeated indications
00:17:30that Kay
00:17:32is a pusher
00:17:33on his way up
00:17:35the bureaucracy
00:17:36not Mr. Zero
00:17:38in the adding machine
00:17:39not little Mr. Nobody
00:17:41not the poor little
00:17:43faceless accountant
00:17:44but a young man
00:17:46very anxious
00:17:47to get ahead
00:17:48in this awful world
00:17:49and doing his best
00:17:51to do that
00:17:52and therefore
00:17:53in a state
00:17:54of real neuroses
00:17:56because he is both
00:17:58terrified
00:17:59of and anxious
00:18:01to conquer
00:18:01the same thing
00:18:04I recognize
00:18:05that I did
00:18:07Tony
00:18:08who is
00:18:09one of the best actors
00:18:11we have
00:18:11a great disservice
00:18:12because
00:18:14he deserved
00:18:16to have made
00:18:16a tremendous success
00:18:18and if he didn't
00:18:19with the critics
00:18:20the blame is
00:18:21100% with me
00:18:24yes sir
00:18:25in the filming
00:18:26of Othello
00:18:27you said you believed
00:18:28in the existence
00:18:29of evil
00:18:30and in this film
00:18:31the evil seems to come
00:18:32from within man
00:18:33from his people
00:18:35from his buildings
00:18:35from his laws
00:18:36they seem to control
00:18:37this man of society's
00:18:40life and destiny
00:18:41are you saying then
00:18:42that evil comes
00:18:43from within man
00:18:44and not from outside
00:18:45from nature
00:18:49wow
00:18:53wow
00:18:56I do indeed believe
00:18:57in the existence
00:18:58of evil
00:19:00and
00:19:00to that extent
00:19:02I'm at odds
00:19:03with most of the people
00:19:05especially of my generation
00:19:08I think evil
00:19:11is a force
00:19:12so great
00:19:13that it is beyond me
00:19:16to decide
00:19:17whether it is
00:19:18generated entirely
00:19:20within man
00:19:22or whether it is
00:19:23a condition
00:19:24a contagion
00:19:25as well as
00:19:29something that we
00:19:30generate within ourselves
00:19:31the power of it
00:19:33is so great
00:19:34that it humbles me
00:19:36it's the metaphysics
00:19:38are beyond me
00:19:39on that
00:19:40I could
00:19:41I'd like to sit
00:19:42at a coffee table
00:19:43and argue it
00:19:44but I wouldn't like
00:19:44to be on
00:19:46a distinguished dais
00:19:48of this kind
00:19:49in a great university
00:19:53saying something
00:19:54for quotation
00:19:55on such a
00:19:57majestic theme
00:20:01you made a new order
00:20:03of the chapter
00:20:04the way they were
00:20:05originally published
00:20:06did you do this
00:20:08for any particular reason
00:20:09after repeat
00:20:10did I make a new order
00:20:11with the story
00:20:13yes
00:20:15can you pick this cable
00:20:16up and bring them in for me
00:20:19I'm so sorry
00:20:20you know I'm a little deaf
00:20:21and I have a mic
00:20:23and you don't
00:20:24my English is very bad
00:20:25your English is very good
00:20:27that's nothing to do with that
00:20:29it's it's it's
00:20:30I really am a little deaf
00:20:32did you reorder the chapters
00:20:34in the story
00:20:35for any particular reason
00:20:37reorder the what
00:20:38in the story
00:20:39the chapters
00:20:40the pattern
00:20:41the pattern
00:20:43everybody knows
00:20:44what's happening
00:20:48did I reorder the chapters
00:20:50in other words
00:20:51did I change the plot line
00:20:55the narrative line
00:20:57of course
00:20:57of course
00:20:59every film
00:21:00is an original work
00:21:01a film should never be
00:21:03an illustration
00:21:03of a book
00:21:04or of a play
00:21:06it should be itself
00:21:08and it cannot be itself
00:21:09unless it's creator
00:21:11a word for which
00:21:12I apologize
00:21:13because I hear
00:21:14the word creator
00:21:15and creativity
00:21:16much too much
00:21:17nowadays
00:21:18but the maker
00:21:19the picture maker
00:21:22is after all
00:21:23engaged in an art form
00:21:25which is entirely
00:21:25different from literature
00:21:27and the theater
00:21:28and he has not only
00:21:29the perfect right
00:21:30but the obligation
00:21:34to turn the work
00:21:35into something
00:21:36a little different
00:21:37than the author intended
00:21:40not to perfectly realize it
00:21:42if he perfectly realizes it
00:21:44we might just as well
00:21:45have lantern slides
00:21:46and somebody
00:21:47with a lovely voice
00:21:48reading the book
00:21:52one of the things
00:21:53that I find most interesting
00:21:54about the film
00:21:55is again
00:21:56your use of architecture
00:21:57and how all the buildings
00:21:59seem to be connected
00:22:00except I guess
00:22:01for Kay's apartment
00:22:03he seems to go
00:22:04through hallways
00:22:05and get to the different
00:22:08rooms
00:22:08even though the architecture
00:22:09is quite different
00:22:10and I'm wondering
00:22:10if you could comment
00:22:11more on this
00:22:12it's part of the
00:22:15I say in the picture
00:22:17that it's a dream
00:22:20that I made a picture
00:22:21like a dream
00:22:23I attempted to make a picture
00:22:25which is like
00:22:26some of the dreams
00:22:28I have had
00:22:28I think it's pompous
00:22:30and silly to say
00:22:31what a dream is like
00:22:32because we're all dreamers
00:22:33and we all dream
00:22:35different ways
00:22:36and I move
00:22:39from one kind of architecture
00:22:41to another
00:22:42in my dreams
00:22:42without any difficulty
00:22:44whatsoever
00:22:46and
00:22:48it's a little harder
00:22:49to do with a camera
00:22:50and make you believe
00:22:51you're in the same movie
00:22:53but that comes from
00:22:55years of
00:22:57hanky panky
00:22:59and sidearm snookery
00:23:01do you think
00:23:01pop attended
00:23:02it as a dream
00:23:04no
00:23:06no
00:23:07I don't
00:23:08but I had to say
00:23:09something to a mass audience
00:23:11I had to find a way
00:23:13to make this
00:23:14accessible
00:23:15to an audience
00:23:17of many millions
00:23:18of people
00:23:18and the way
00:23:19to do that
00:23:20was to say
00:23:21it's a dream
00:23:24so I
00:23:25slightly evaded
00:23:26both questions
00:23:29one of the changes
00:23:30you made in the story
00:23:31was at the very end
00:23:33when
00:23:33Joseph Kay is killed
00:23:35he's killed in a
00:23:37very alarmingly
00:23:38different way
00:23:39than in the book
00:23:40and
00:23:40I was really curious
00:23:41as to
00:23:42why you changed
00:23:44both the way he was killed
00:23:45and the way he was acting
00:23:46when he died
00:23:46because the book
00:23:47was written before
00:23:48the holocaust
00:23:55and I couldn't bear
00:23:56the defeat
00:23:58of Kay
00:23:59in the book
00:24:00after the holocaust
00:24:02I'm not Jewish
00:24:04but we are all Jewish
00:24:06since the holocaust
00:24:09and I couldn't bear
00:24:11for him to submit
00:24:12to death
00:24:13as he does
00:24:15in Kafka
00:24:17masochistically
00:24:18submit to death
00:24:19it stank of the old
00:24:22Prague ghetto
00:24:23to me
00:24:24and I had to let him
00:24:26I had to let him
00:24:28shout out
00:24:29defiance
00:24:30until
00:24:30he was blown up
00:24:32there's also
00:24:33an embarrassing thing
00:24:34in the picture
00:24:35which is the
00:24:36mushroom shaped cloud
00:24:39well it turns out
00:24:40that any big explosion
00:24:41you could make
00:24:42ends up in the shape
00:24:44of a mushroom
00:24:44so we spent an afternoon
00:24:46trying to get a cloud
00:24:47that wouldn't
00:24:48end up
00:24:49looking like a mushroom
00:24:50because I hate symbolism
00:24:52but there it was
00:24:54so I said
00:24:54all right
00:24:55there's going to be
00:24:55symbolism
00:24:57whether we like it
00:24:58or not
00:24:58you know
00:25:03yes sir
00:25:03in this film
00:25:04the computer
00:25:05is portrayed
00:25:06as sort of
00:25:06a dumb
00:25:07adding machine
00:25:08the people
00:25:08manipulating it
00:25:09are the ones
00:25:10evil
00:25:11is that your
00:25:12belief about
00:25:12the computer
00:25:13that it's merely
00:25:13a big adding machine
00:25:14and that it's not
00:25:16intrinsically evil
00:25:17itself
00:25:19well
00:25:21the question
00:25:22is interesting
00:25:23because there's
00:25:24an enormous scene
00:25:25in the picture
00:25:26which was cut out
00:25:28by me
00:25:29two hours
00:25:30before the opening
00:25:31night in Paris
00:25:33which was a scene
00:25:35about the computer
00:25:36which would have
00:25:36more fully explained
00:25:38my attitude
00:25:39at that time
00:25:40about computers
00:25:41my attitude
00:25:42has changed slightly
00:25:43but only slightly
00:25:44since then
00:25:45and I believe
00:25:47that the
00:25:50what that scene
00:25:51did
00:25:51which had
00:25:54played
00:25:54almost
00:25:55nine minutes
00:25:56and as I say
00:25:58I cut it out
00:25:59in the afternoon
00:25:59of the opening
00:26:01what that scene
00:26:02did
00:26:02was to show
00:26:05man's
00:26:05slavish
00:26:06relationship
00:26:07to something
00:26:09which is really
00:26:09only his tool
00:26:11that was a
00:26:12splendid thing
00:26:13to say
00:26:13but it turned out
00:26:14to be rather a drag
00:26:15in the picture
00:26:16so I took it out
00:26:51so i don't
00:26:53i think
00:27:14what that scene
00:27:14like
00:27:14oh
00:30:56you cast the actors in the trial how did I cast the actors in the trial the same
00:31:07as I cast in any movie but by I don't want my answer to sound condescending
00:31:18by picking the people that seem to be best adapted for it and in the case of
00:31:25the trial of course I had a co-production and a co-production means that you have
00:31:32different nations involved so I had to have some Germans and some French and
00:31:39some English and therefore there are some German actors who might not have
00:31:47been German otherwise but I think all the Germans are very good at it the I'm
00:31:55I had to get Tamaroff in who was an American so we had to have plenty of
00:32:00French actors so I had a very good actor Maurice Tenac who played the manager so I
00:32:06was very happy to have him I was limited by the nationalities but that's not such a
00:32:13terrible limitation the world is full of wonderful actors who who luckily speak our
00:32:21language although they are getting fewer and fewer because after the war every
00:32:27young actor quickly learned English thinking that was the only way to get
00:32:31ahead and nowadays actors of your age do not speak English in all the countries in
00:32:39the world very few bothered and you're left with those same old faces because they
00:32:47don't pictures have ceased to be international think how few international
00:32:53pictures play here or in London or in Berlin I'm not speaking of festivals I mean in
00:33:02theaters so what everybody thought they're going to make English speaking
00:33:07pictures forever everybody learned English so it was much easier 20 years ago to
00:33:13cast it across the European continent as well as you could and not be
00:33:22disappointed with the result I miss cast of course every director does that every
00:33:28director makes terrible mistakes and and there's nothing you can do about it but I
00:33:35I don't remember that except for the my controversial reading of Kay that
00:33:46there's anything that could possibly be called bad casting in it but I don't know is
00:33:52there would somebody say if they think somebody else was badly cast the
00:33:57interesting to hear it won't hurt my feelings a bit
00:34:00I think today was very well cast you do yes hooray for you god how much obligation do you feel
00:34:08to a mass audience how much obligation do I feel how much do you modify your vision so that people
00:34:16will there's a missing word here on between what I feel and to a mass audience obligation
00:34:26I would love to have a mass audience you're looking at a man who's been searching for a mass audience
00:34:40and if I hadn't had one I'd be obliged that's all I can say
00:34:50here comes a man who looks like he's about to shoot me
00:34:57talking about money do you think if you'd had a great deal of it it would have made your films
00:35:02better or did your poverty help your creativity in any way
00:35:09did my poverty help my creativity no no I think however that it is possible to spoil a young director
00:35:26by giving him too much money
00:35:29so that he does not learn one of the main arts of directing
00:35:36which is the ability to walk away from something
00:35:42when it is not perfect
00:35:45no fine movie was ever made
00:35:48by a director who wants everything to be perfect
00:35:53any more than
00:35:55because every bad painting has every leaf in the tree
00:35:59and every great painting makes you see a tree
00:36:05and there are great lessons to be learned
00:36:08by not using money
00:36:10by not using
00:36:13the studio largesse unquestioningly
00:36:17but there is no advantage
00:36:20in having to reach in your pocket
00:36:22and pay Madeline Robinson her salary
00:36:25at the end of every week
00:36:26otherwise she'd leave the picture
00:36:29which is what happened in the trial
00:36:33a number of your films
00:36:35obviously this one
00:36:36but a number of other ones
00:36:37generate a sort of a palpable feel of oppression
00:36:39are you as pessimistic as that seems to indicate
00:36:42or is that just what you like to do
00:36:44Am I as what?
00:36:44as pessimistic as would seem to be indicated
00:36:47by the feeling of oppression in the trial
00:36:50and the sort of visual oppression
00:36:52that comes over in a number of your other pictures
00:36:55yes
00:36:58I am a profound pessimist
00:37:04with a sentimental inclination
00:37:07to hope
00:37:11that
00:37:11Pangloss was right
00:37:14and that I'm wrong
00:37:17I have a sentimental inclination toward hope
00:37:20I believe in bravery
00:37:25and
00:37:30worship it
00:37:31to me it's one of the
00:37:33the greatest virtues there are
00:37:36and
00:37:36the fact that I'm a pessimist
00:37:38is part of what gives
00:37:40bravery such an importance to me
00:37:42don't call me a macho
00:37:44that's not what I'm talking about
00:37:47yes
00:37:48every time I see this film
00:37:49I'm so struck by the brilliant use of space
00:37:52in so many of the environments
00:37:53and yet in the Kafka story
00:37:55all the spaces seem very cramped
00:37:57I wondered if you would talk about
00:38:00what led you to change the conception of space
00:38:02was it the different medium
00:38:04or your own vision
00:38:06or anything else
00:38:07I mean in terms of moving it away
00:38:08from the kind of space that was in the novel
00:38:11and the kind of space that you have in the film
00:38:16that's a better question than I have an answer for
00:38:20honestly it is
00:38:23I don't know
00:38:24I would want to think about it
00:38:25I think
00:38:26I think my answer would be frivolous
00:38:28and I'd like to think about it
00:38:30it's a
00:38:30it's a
00:38:31it's a worrisome question
00:38:33I don't know
00:38:34I
00:38:35I thought that I was being
00:38:37faithful to a
00:38:39to my reading of the book
00:38:42and I know that nobody agrees with me
00:38:45including those people who like the picture
00:38:47as well as those who dislike it
00:38:49but I did not consciously
00:38:53change what I thought was its essential meaning
00:39:00but that's as far as I can go
00:39:04as big a boast as I dare to make
00:39:07yes
00:39:08what do you
00:39:09what do you see as the role of seduction in bureaucracy
00:39:13there seem to be lots of sexual symbols
00:39:18or sexuality is almost the second
00:39:20is almost the antagonist
00:39:24along with the bureaucratic oppression
00:39:28but that's Kafka
00:39:30that really is Kafka
00:39:32it's part of the fascination of the book
00:39:35is the
00:39:36is that
00:39:38is that
00:39:38is that
00:39:40insistent
00:39:40and almost onanistic
00:39:42erotic
00:39:42eroticism
00:39:44I find that in the book
00:39:46it's not a
00:39:46it's not an obsession
00:39:48or a specialty of mine
00:39:52I'm not
00:39:53I'm not
00:39:54I'm not
00:39:56I would be happy to make a movie in which
00:39:58I would be happy to have 40 years of movie making ahead of me
00:40:03in which it would never be necessary for me to ask the leading man to take his pants off
00:40:07you know
00:40:10but the eroticism in Kafka is inevitable
00:40:15it's there
00:40:17and it's very strong I think
00:40:21yes
00:40:22it is my turn
00:40:26you have been quoted as
00:40:29in an interview that was taken before the trial was filmed
00:40:32that
00:40:32you did not think that you would be the man to film the trial
00:40:35tonight
00:40:36you have said that
00:40:37you took the trial on own
00:40:39practically because it was the least intolerable prospect offered to you
00:40:43not least tolerable
00:40:44least intolerable
00:40:46least intolerable
00:40:47no
00:40:47I didn't find
00:40:48no I
00:40:49if I said that
00:40:51I was making a bad joke
00:40:52and I
00:40:53I've expressed myself badly
00:40:54it was the best of the 80
00:40:55or the most likely you said
00:40:56of the 80
00:40:57that you were offered
00:40:58it was the title I liked
00:41:00um
00:41:02anyways
00:41:02uh
00:41:02I would say that the main character is somewhat less passive
00:41:06than the characters I've read in Kafka
00:41:11uh
00:41:11taking all that together
00:41:13do you think that your world vision is uh close to Kafka's
00:41:16uh
00:41:17and do you think that's uh
00:41:20something to take into consideration for you to make a movie out of his work
00:41:24you know I didn't follow that help me out
00:41:27oh I'm sorry
00:41:28let me
00:41:29what
00:41:31it's
00:41:33my world vision close to Kafka
00:41:35of course not
00:41:36not at all
00:41:37I
00:41:38you know he was a creature
00:41:40uh
00:41:40born entirely of the uh
00:41:42uh
00:41:43Austro-Hungarian Empire
00:41:44uh
00:41:45uh
00:41:45of his uh
00:41:46of his own people
00:41:48his own religion
00:41:48uh
00:41:50uh
00:41:50uh
00:41:51between the two world wars
00:41:53there's every possible difference between us
00:41:55we could not possibly
00:41:56have the same vision
00:41:58even if our genes were the same
00:42:00there's no way
00:42:01we could see the world the same
00:42:03uh
00:42:04uh
00:42:04at this different moment in the turning of the globe
00:42:09and therefore you will say I shouldn't have made the picture
00:42:12and there's no answer to that either
00:42:16yes sir
00:42:17can you tell us about your work with the cinematographer in planning the look of this film
00:42:23my work is a cinematographer
00:42:25your work with the cinematographer in planning the look of this film
00:42:29I never never sit down and plan with a cinematographer
00:42:35no storyboards
00:42:36no no no
00:42:38I had storyboards in Kane
00:42:40only because I was made to
00:42:43right
00:42:43did you go to the set
00:42:45each day
00:42:46not knowing what you were going to
00:42:48where you were going to
00:42:49plop the camera down or
00:42:50in
00:42:51I do I do
00:42:52I think
00:42:54I believe
00:42:55I'm the
00:42:56only director
00:42:58that I know of
00:42:59who does this particular thing
00:43:02which is probably the worst way to go about it
00:43:05I didn't begin this way
00:43:07but I have developed this way
00:43:09I light a set before I decide
00:43:12where anybody will go
00:43:14with the cameraman
00:43:16and then when the set
00:43:17looks right to me
00:43:18I put the actors where I think they ought to be
00:43:21I don't put the actors
00:43:23and then light the set
00:43:24it's the exact opposite
00:43:28because
00:43:29the set is all we have besides the actors
00:43:31and it ought to have a chance
00:43:34and the only way
00:43:36to give it a chance
00:43:36is to begin with it
00:43:38that's my theory anyway
00:43:41How much did the trial cost to make?
00:43:44How much did the trial
00:43:45well that will never be known
00:43:48it cost me about $80,000
00:43:52I never made any money
00:43:54it cost me about $80,000
00:43:56in fact it's cost me a lot more money
00:43:58to be a film director
00:43:59than I've ever made
00:44:01that's literally true
00:44:05so let that be an encouragement
00:44:07to you all
00:44:11In the program notes
00:44:13it mentions that the film
00:44:16was not as great a critical success
00:44:18in Britain and in America
00:44:20as it was on the continent
00:44:22in Europe
00:44:23That's wrong
00:44:24we got wonderful reviews
00:44:28except for the character of Kay
00:44:30Then my question's tossed out
00:44:34No
00:44:34What I was going to comment on
00:44:36was that
00:44:37during the
00:44:38while I was watching the film
00:44:39I had a feeling of
00:44:42a very
00:44:42what I would consider
00:44:43something that comes from
00:44:44American traditions of law
00:44:47and British traditions of law
00:44:49of
00:44:50this can't happen
00:45:00It's European
00:45:00It may account
00:45:01And not a European thing
00:45:02Yes
00:45:03Well it is a very European film
00:45:05It was made
00:45:08by me
00:45:11really as a European director
00:45:13It was not
00:45:14it was
00:45:15it was made with a Europe
00:45:17essentially European cast
00:45:19There was no attempt
00:45:21to stick into it
00:45:23things which would make it seem
00:45:25as though it's also America
00:45:26because I don't think
00:45:28there's anything in Kafka
00:45:29which will support that
00:45:31To me he is middle Europe
00:45:33middle Europe
00:45:34middle Europe
00:45:35and no escape from it
00:45:37It's part of his prison
00:45:38It's part of his enchantment
00:45:43You will use
00:45:44the same actor today
00:45:46or what actor
00:45:47you will choose
00:45:47today to make
00:45:48the trial
00:45:50To make K?
00:45:52Yeah
00:45:52If I were going to do it again
00:45:54You mean
00:45:55given the difference of age
00:45:59I think
00:46:03Pacino
00:46:06But then I think Pacino
00:46:08in almost anything
00:46:09I can think of
00:46:11Such a fan of his
00:46:14But I think
00:46:15he'd be marvelous
00:46:15Yes
00:46:16But that's
00:46:17accounting for the
00:46:18difference of age
00:46:18Of course
00:46:19Tony's too old
00:46:20We're not running him down
00:46:24We've got somebody
00:46:27There
00:46:27The easiest one to reach
00:46:29Isn't it unfair?
00:46:31With all the escapist movies
00:46:34that have come out
00:46:35in the last few years
00:46:36Is there some topic
00:46:38that you would like
00:46:39to make into a movie
00:46:40to retaliate against
00:46:42all of this
00:46:43BS?
00:46:44To retaliate
00:46:45against escapist movies?
00:46:48I love escapist movies
00:46:51I love them
00:46:52I see
00:46:53I see no obligation
00:46:54on the part
00:46:55of a filmmaker
00:46:57of a filmmaker
00:46:58to be serious
00:47:03or even to be adult
00:47:07I think it's very nice
00:47:08to make movies for children
00:47:10and to make movies for the child
00:47:13which is in every grown person
00:47:16My difficulty with science fiction movies
00:47:21I used to write it for my living
00:47:24when there was a thing
00:47:25called the pulps
00:47:26which only the most elderly
00:47:28of you will even recognize
00:47:29as a word
00:47:30but I was a pulp writer
00:47:32and I used to write
00:47:32lobster men from Mars
00:47:34and all that
00:47:36and I have a certain notoriety
00:47:39in the science fiction field
00:47:43but it's never been anything
00:47:45I like very much
00:47:46because I don't believe
00:47:47in the future
00:47:50that doesn't mean
00:47:51I think everything's going to end
00:47:52at this moment
00:47:54but I think the future
00:47:55is a total hypothesis
00:47:57I believe in the present
00:47:59in so far as we can grab it
00:48:00and the past
00:48:02and anything about the future
00:48:04I don't believe
00:48:05all they've got to do
00:48:06is put on one of those
00:48:07those bike helmets
00:48:09you know
00:48:09and silver things
00:48:11and start off into the world
00:48:13of optical printing
00:48:16and I'm up the aisle
00:48:17you see
00:48:19and not because
00:48:20they're bad movies
00:48:21but because
00:48:22I don't respond
00:48:23I didn't like westerns
00:48:25until I was about
00:48:2650 years old
00:48:28and I began to see them
00:48:29rerun on television
00:48:30I never went to them
00:48:31as a child
00:48:32and now I adore them
00:48:35and I might learn
00:48:36to like
00:48:37you know
00:48:37zing zing
00:48:38and up in outer space
00:48:40but for the moment
00:48:41it doesn't say anything to me
00:48:42but I'm in favor of them
00:48:44I think it's fine
00:48:45I don't think
00:48:45as long as they are not
00:48:48violent for the sake of violence
00:48:50or
00:48:51in any way
00:48:53fascistic
00:48:53in their tone
00:48:55as long as they
00:48:56partake of a myth
00:48:59or of the mythic
00:49:01quality
00:49:02which a film
00:49:03can
00:49:04can call upon
00:49:05I think it's a marvelous
00:49:07exercise in virtuosity
00:49:09and I immensely admire
00:49:11the people who make them
00:49:18are there any childlike aspects
00:49:20to the trial
00:49:21and if you made it again
00:49:22would you insert any
00:49:26do you think so
00:49:31I have a great difficulty
00:49:33finding them
00:49:34yes I don't think there are
00:49:36but there must be
00:49:39because
00:49:40nobody is completely grown up
00:49:43and no work of art
00:49:45god what a terrible thing
00:49:46have I said
00:49:47no uh
00:49:48no movie
00:49:51no movie
00:49:52uh
00:49:54no
00:49:56no movie
00:49:57is made
00:49:58by a complete adult
00:49:59you know
00:50:01first of all
00:50:01I don't know
00:50:02any complete adults
00:50:03in civilian life
00:50:05so why
00:50:05how could they have
00:50:06infiltrated movies
00:50:08you know
00:50:09it's uh
00:50:10unthinkable
00:50:11seems to me
00:50:12yes sir
00:50:14in regard to that gentleman's
00:50:15last comment
00:50:15I did find some
00:50:17a lot of childlike aspects
00:50:19in it
00:50:19especially in relation
00:50:20to certain kinds of
00:50:21fairy stories
00:50:21in the trial
00:50:23in the trial
00:50:23especially Alice in Wonderland
00:50:25and the Wizard of Oz
00:50:25and your big scene
00:50:26when you're booming
00:50:28to Akim Tamaroff
00:50:29I was wondering
00:50:30if you were thinking
00:50:30of that to some degree
00:50:32yes they are
00:50:32they are
00:50:33they are
00:50:34perhaps they're childlike
00:50:36uh
00:50:36perhaps that's the right word
00:50:38for them
00:50:38I thought of them as
00:50:39as uh
00:50:41simple minded
00:50:43and uh
00:50:43uh
00:50:47I thought of them
00:50:48as being related
00:50:49to the
00:50:51to Grimm
00:50:52you know
00:50:53and that of course
00:50:55takes us to childhood
00:50:56but
00:50:57you know
00:50:57the
00:50:58the great
00:50:58the great fairy tales
00:51:00which were invented
00:51:02uh
00:51:03by people living in forests
00:51:05uh
00:51:06before the electric light
00:51:08uh
00:51:09still live on
00:51:11and our reactions
00:51:13to certain kinds
00:51:14of horror
00:51:15and delight
00:51:16and uh
00:51:16even to cruelty
00:51:18which is in uh
00:51:19which is in this picture
00:51:20you've seen
00:51:21is I suppose
00:51:22childlike
00:51:23yes
00:51:24but I hadn't thought of it
00:51:26I
00:51:26you're teaching me
00:51:28things I didn't know
00:51:32yes
00:51:32having seen
00:51:33Citizen Kane
00:51:33and The Trial
00:51:34it seems that
00:51:35both films
00:51:35seem to adopt
00:51:36a sort of
00:51:37Brechtian view
00:51:38of man and society
00:51:39or man versus man
00:51:40and I was very curious
00:51:41had you ever thought
00:51:42of doing a Brecht piece
00:51:43or did that ever
00:51:45how did you work
00:51:46well uh
00:51:46uh
00:51:48uh
00:51:48Dick Wilson here
00:51:50who was my partner
00:51:51for a long time
00:51:51was sitting in the front here
00:51:53and I were
00:51:54going to do
00:51:55the first production
00:51:56of Galileo
00:51:57and I worked with Brecht
00:52:00and Lawton on it
00:52:02and that's as far
00:52:03as I'm prepared
00:52:04to go
00:52:05on the subject
00:52:06of what is Brechtian
00:52:07and not
00:52:09because I admired him
00:52:10enormously
00:52:11and thought that
00:52:12he was two people
00:52:14one a
00:52:16Jesuit trained
00:52:17uh
00:52:21literature
00:52:22man who wanted
00:52:24all of his works
00:52:25published
00:52:25in a
00:52:26in a
00:52:27the best leather
00:52:29and kept forever
00:52:30and uh
00:52:32a dogmatist
00:52:36and all of that
00:52:37was very superficial
00:52:39he was essentially
00:52:41a very
00:52:44astute
00:52:45theater man
00:52:46and his theory
00:52:48was mostly
00:52:49self-defense
00:52:52sex
00:52:53sex
00:52:53sex
00:52:54all right
00:52:55I was wondering
00:52:57um
00:52:57what you did
00:52:58to affect
00:52:59really the dizziness
00:53:00of Kay
00:53:01in that movie
00:53:02because
00:53:02I felt
00:53:03very closed in
00:53:05uh
00:53:05when he was getting dizzy
00:53:07inside that courtroom
00:53:08and when he was trying
00:53:09to escape
00:53:11you felt very closed in
00:53:13when I was
00:53:16dizzy
00:53:16and trying to get out
00:53:18of the courtroom
00:53:23yes that was the idea
00:53:24I'm just wondering
00:53:25how you did that
00:53:26I would have been awfully sorry
00:53:26if you hadn't
00:53:27no
00:53:28what did you do
00:53:29oh how I did it
00:53:31the mastery
00:53:32of the cinema
00:53:38I'll tell you how we did it
00:53:39we put entirely
00:53:40too many people
00:53:41in
00:53:42in
00:53:42in the room
00:53:43that there was
00:53:44you see
00:53:44it was
00:53:45we made claustrophobia
00:53:47by overcrowding
00:53:52could you uh
00:53:54tell us a little bit
00:53:55more about the ending
00:53:56how you arrived at it
00:53:57uh
00:53:57you told us a little bit
00:53:58why
00:53:59but how did you come
00:53:59upon the ending
00:54:00as you did
00:54:03I don't know
00:54:04how I came upon it
00:54:05I wanted
00:54:06I wanted Kay
00:54:07to make
00:54:09a final gesture
00:54:11even if it was fruitless
00:54:14uh
00:54:14you know
00:54:15if we want to be
00:54:16if we want to
00:54:18pin a label on it
00:54:20it's existentialist
00:54:21uh
00:54:22I couldn't bear
00:54:23for him to have
00:54:24his throat split
00:54:26like a pig
00:54:26and uh
00:54:28he throws the
00:54:29he throws the grenade
00:54:31back
00:54:32uh
00:54:34which is a
00:54:35which is a way
00:54:36of saying no
00:54:38and it seems to me
00:54:40seemed to me
00:54:40that putting a man
00:54:41in a hole
00:54:43with a bomb
00:54:45letting him
00:54:46try to throw the bomb out
00:54:48expressed that
00:54:49as well as I could think
00:54:50it was
00:54:51as simple
00:54:52a way of stating it
00:54:54as I could think of
00:54:56and I haven't
00:54:57since then
00:54:57tried to think
00:54:58of a better one
00:54:59maybe I
00:54:59I would have
00:55:01but I
00:55:01having done it
00:55:02I
00:55:04yes
00:55:07I have a question
00:55:08about your coverage
00:55:09of scenes
00:55:09you've been noted
00:55:11for many rather
00:55:11exceptional long
00:55:12takes such as
00:55:13the boarding house
00:55:14sequence in Kane
00:55:15or the first sequence
00:55:16in the room
00:55:16in this film
00:55:18do you customarily
00:55:20cover everything
00:55:20in a master's
00:55:21I cover nothing
00:55:24cover nothing
00:55:26never cover
00:55:27so
00:55:28you mean
00:55:29when we see
00:55:30on the screen
00:55:30a long take
00:55:31does that mean
00:55:32that that's all
00:55:32you've shot
00:55:33that's all there is
00:55:33okay
00:55:34that pretty much
00:55:35I was taught that
00:55:36by Jack Ford
00:55:39because
00:55:40when
00:55:41when Ford
00:55:42finished a movie
00:55:43he never cut it
00:55:45you know
00:55:46he had nothing
00:55:47to do with the editing
00:55:47he never went
00:55:48into the movieola
00:55:50he never saw
00:55:51a rough cut
00:55:51he usually went
00:55:53on a big drunk
00:55:56and the way
00:55:56he had of
00:55:57protecting himself
00:55:58was to give them
00:55:59nothing to go to
00:56:02so if he wanted
00:56:03the if he wanted
00:56:04the girl to say
00:56:07yes Duke
00:56:08that was all
00:56:10she got to say
00:56:11she didn't get
00:56:12to listen to all
00:56:12the rest of the scene
00:56:13or say the dialogue
00:56:15that he expected
00:56:16her not to say
00:56:17that's all he shot
00:56:18and he told me
00:56:20to do it
00:56:20and I followed
00:56:21his instructions
00:56:24yeah with respect
00:56:25to the opening
00:56:26long take
00:56:26how did you
00:56:27determine exactly
00:56:28when you chose
00:56:29to cut away
00:56:30from it
00:56:32when to cut away
00:56:33it's midway
00:56:33through the scene
00:56:34where you begin
00:56:35to break it up
00:56:35into individual shots
00:56:37what determined
00:56:38the change
00:56:38in the handling
00:56:39of the scene
00:56:39I can't remember
00:56:41I just
00:56:42it's a
00:56:43all I have
00:56:43is a dumb answer
00:56:44I really can't remember
00:56:45because I believe
00:56:46it occurs
00:56:47right in the middle
00:56:48of the section
00:56:49there's no special
00:56:50reason why the long
00:56:51take necessarily
00:56:51ends at that point
00:56:52maybe there's a mistake
00:56:54there of some kind
00:56:54I don't know
00:56:56it seemed to me
00:56:57that we cut
00:56:58only when we went
00:56:59into the other room
00:57:01with a
00:57:02with a woman
00:57:05that was the intention
00:57:06no or what
00:57:07I don't know
00:57:08I really don't know
00:57:09when we cut
00:57:09short ends of film
00:57:11maybe
00:57:12that may have
00:57:13been that
00:57:13short end of the film
00:57:16yes
00:57:16as long as
00:57:17we're still talking
00:57:18about
00:57:18as long as
00:57:20we're still talking
00:57:21about the long
00:57:22takes
00:57:22I was wondering
00:57:24if that tendency
00:57:25in the films
00:57:26is more out of
00:57:27your roots in the
00:57:29theater and
00:57:29presenting something
00:57:30in real time
00:57:31or was it more
00:57:32for an expressionist
00:57:33reason
00:57:34no a long take
00:57:35for me
00:57:36is
00:57:38depends on
00:57:39two things
00:57:40a very good
00:57:42technical crew
00:57:43and there are less
00:57:44of them every day
00:57:45in the world
00:57:46all over the world
00:57:47because of television
00:57:50and very good actors
00:57:53the longest
00:57:54I've done
00:57:55very long
00:57:55I've done
00:57:56I did the first
00:57:57real length takes
00:57:59that were ever made
00:58:01and they ended up
00:58:02not that
00:58:03because they cut
00:58:03into them in
00:58:04Ambersons
00:58:05but they were real length
00:58:06and in Macbeth
00:58:07they are real length
00:58:08full real in length
00:58:10I believe that
00:58:11it is an enormous help
00:58:14to a cast
00:58:15if they're good enough
00:58:16to play the rhythm
00:58:18of an entire sequence
00:58:20rather than
00:58:22leaving it to the director
00:58:23entirely
00:58:24because the director has
00:58:27I always suspect
00:58:29a little bit too much power
00:58:30in movie making
00:58:33I think the actor
00:58:34is
00:58:35in film studies
00:58:39the actor
00:58:40is underrated
00:58:42the story
00:58:43and the director
00:58:43gets a little more credit
00:58:45than is deserved
00:58:48because actors
00:58:49keep showing us
00:58:50things
00:58:51we never suspected
00:58:53any good director
00:58:54is constantly
00:58:55astonished
00:58:56by something
00:58:57that his
00:58:57cast
00:58:58is giving him
00:58:59you know
00:59:01yes
00:59:01maybe I'm
00:59:02an incurable optimist
00:59:04but I got a lot of hope
00:59:05out of the picture
00:59:06partly out of the character's
00:59:08integrity
00:59:09and
00:59:10that he was
00:59:11kind of a hero
00:59:12in his integrity
00:59:13and things
00:59:13and he wouldn't stand
00:59:14for things
00:59:14did you mean
00:59:15for a lot of hope
00:59:16to come out of that
00:59:16I'm the kind of optimist
00:59:18that believes
00:59:18in integrity
00:59:20and in all
00:59:21these
00:59:23virtues
00:59:24which
00:59:25illuminate
00:59:26western civilization
00:59:27and which are only
00:59:30I hope
00:59:30temporarily
00:59:31out of fashion
00:59:32I don't believe
00:59:34that these
00:59:35that the
00:59:36that the
00:59:40physical outlook
00:59:43of mankind
00:59:44changes
00:59:45virtue
00:59:49and only
00:59:50obliges us
00:59:51to behave better
00:59:54although that's
00:59:55awfully solemn
00:59:56that's
00:59:56can we do this
00:59:58first here
00:59:58and then go back
01:00:00look at her
01:00:01she's way down there
01:00:03maybe we could
01:00:04pass them on
01:00:05how about
01:00:05how about trying
01:00:06to shout it
01:00:07I'll repeat it
01:00:08I will
01:00:08I was
01:00:09noticing
01:00:10continuity
01:00:11between
01:00:11the
01:00:12the trial
01:00:14and a lot of your films
01:00:15dating back to
01:00:17Citizen Kane
01:00:18as
01:00:18your view
01:00:19seems to be opposed
01:00:20to some of the best
01:00:21interests of the
01:00:22corporate elite
01:00:22of which you
01:00:23speak directly about
01:00:25in the trial
01:00:27and I was wondering
01:00:28if you thought
01:00:28your personal
01:00:29financial position
01:00:31as a film director
01:00:32is directly related
01:00:33to the fact
01:00:35that a lot of your
01:00:36views and your films
01:00:37throughout these ages
01:00:38have not
01:00:39exactly expressed
01:00:40their interests
01:00:49would anybody like
01:00:51to answer that
01:00:52question
01:00:53well my personal
01:00:55opinion
01:00:57good stand up
01:00:58let's hear it
01:01:01my personal opinion
01:01:02is that it's true
01:01:03and that
01:01:05from the
01:01:06what I've read
01:01:07from your career
01:01:08although I wasn't alive
01:01:09at the time you first
01:01:10were making films
01:01:11that
01:01:14that you've had
01:01:15a tremendous problem
01:01:16with the press
01:01:18and corporate bureaucracy
01:01:19dating back
01:01:19you know
01:01:20since the earliest
01:01:20portions of your career
01:01:22and that this is
01:01:23continuing today
01:01:24and that's one of the
01:01:24reasons
01:01:25why you've been
01:01:26unable to finish
01:01:27some of your
01:01:28more recent projects
01:01:30well the only
01:01:32there are only
01:01:33two main projects
01:01:34which are unfinished
01:01:36one is
01:01:38the other side
01:01:39of the wind
01:01:39and when I tell you
01:01:40that my partner
01:01:41in that project
01:01:43is the brother-in-law
01:01:44of the late Shah
01:01:45of Iran
01:01:46you will understand
01:01:48why we are having
01:01:48a little legal difficulty
01:01:51the other unfinished
01:01:52film is Don Quixote
01:01:54which was a private
01:01:55exercise of mine
01:01:57and it will be finished
01:01:58as an author
01:01:59will finish it
01:02:00at my own good time
01:02:01when I feel like it
01:02:03it is not unfinished
01:02:04because of financial reasons
01:02:06and when it is released
01:02:08its title
01:02:09is going to be
01:02:10when are you going
01:02:12to finish Don Quixote
01:02:19I appreciate so very much
01:02:21your use of depth of field
01:02:23especially in this film
01:02:25my question is
01:02:27why do you think
01:02:28that it's being dropped
01:02:29in filmmaking today
01:02:32you never get the same
01:02:33depth of field
01:02:34in color as you do
01:02:35in black and white
01:02:38and secondly
01:02:40a lot of the depth
01:02:41of field
01:02:41in Kane
01:02:43was fake
01:02:45it was split screen
01:02:49people you know
01:02:49we made up
01:02:50we said we'd invented
01:02:51a new lens
01:02:53that was just publicity
01:02:54no truth of it at all
01:02:56what was it called
01:02:57Dick
01:02:58we had some
01:02:59great word for it
01:03:00I've forgotten
01:03:00and it was a fake
01:03:01whenever the shot
01:03:03became impossible
01:03:03we did the old
01:03:05split screen
01:03:07that's it
01:03:08that's it
01:03:09that's the word
01:03:09are you using
01:03:11that process
01:03:12in the films
01:03:12that you're working
01:03:13on now
01:03:15I expect to use it
01:03:16I'm going
01:03:17I'm about to make
01:03:18two movies
01:03:20and one
01:03:21will have
01:03:22no depth of field
01:03:23whatever
01:03:24and
01:03:25because it's a very
01:03:26romantic story
01:03:27and depth of field
01:03:29is the enemy
01:03:30of romance
01:03:32it is
01:03:33and the other
01:03:34is a modern story
01:03:35about
01:03:35an American
01:03:37political candidate
01:03:38and
01:03:39it'll have as much
01:03:40depth of field
01:03:41as we can get
01:03:47somebody
01:03:48that hasn't
01:03:51who's nearest
01:03:52the mic
01:03:55doesn't seem
01:03:55a fair way
01:03:56to go about it
01:03:59anybody who looks
01:04:00for justice
01:04:01in this world
01:04:02yes
01:04:02got somebody
01:04:03yes
01:04:05your implication
01:04:06or your statement
01:04:07that this film
01:04:08is a dream
01:04:08as you express it
01:04:09it seems to say
01:04:11that the conflict
01:04:12within the film
01:04:13is within the main
01:04:14character's mind
01:04:15would you
01:04:16care to define
01:04:17the conflict
01:04:18within his mind
01:04:22you know
01:04:22you're all above
01:04:23my head
01:04:25do you mean
01:04:29well if this film
01:04:30is a dream
01:04:30yeah
01:04:32obviously it'd be
01:04:33the main character's
01:04:34dream
01:04:34if you say
01:04:35no it's my dream
01:04:36okay well
01:04:37if it's your dream
01:04:37then the conflict
01:04:39is within your mind
01:04:40what is the
01:04:41what is the mental
01:04:42conflict in the film
01:04:43it's not just
01:04:43it's not just
01:04:44this one man
01:04:45against
01:04:45against society
01:04:46it's obviously
01:04:47something that's
01:04:48going on
01:04:48yes
01:04:48I dreamt about him
01:04:49okay
01:04:52I dreamt about him
01:04:53and it's not
01:04:55a conflict
01:04:56with society
01:04:57it's a
01:04:59failure
01:05:00to
01:05:02flourish
01:05:04and
01:05:05and
01:05:07flower
01:05:08in society
01:05:10he's not
01:05:11really in
01:05:11conflict
01:05:12with society
01:05:13he's
01:05:13the man
01:05:14is basically
01:05:15a conformist
01:05:18he's not
01:05:18in conflict
01:05:19with society
01:05:20but
01:05:21you see
01:05:22that society
01:05:22is killing him
01:05:24even though
01:05:25he's not
01:05:25fighting it
01:05:26he doesn't
01:05:27put up
01:05:27much of a fight
01:05:29yes
01:05:30in the back
01:05:30way in the back
01:05:31blue shirt
01:05:34wait for the mic
01:05:36thank you
01:05:42he fights
01:05:43for each
01:05:44as each issue
01:05:45comes along
01:05:46but you don't
01:05:47see a man
01:05:47in a real
01:05:50aggressive
01:05:51position
01:05:52against society
01:05:53yeah
01:05:54on that
01:05:55that response
01:05:57I'm wondering
01:05:58then
01:05:59if you say
01:05:59that he's not
01:06:00really in
01:06:00conflict
01:06:01with his
01:06:01society
01:06:03whether
01:06:03that makes
01:06:04him
01:06:06if you say
01:06:07that he's
01:06:07not in
01:06:07conflict
01:06:08with the
01:06:08society
01:06:08society
01:06:09is in
01:06:09conflict
01:06:10with him
01:06:10okay
01:06:11would that
01:06:12make him
01:06:12an autobiographical
01:06:13character
01:06:14for you
01:06:14no
01:06:14I don't
01:06:15regard
01:06:16society
01:06:16as in
01:06:17conflict
01:06:17at least
01:06:18in terms
01:06:18of your
01:06:19filmmaking
01:06:19career
01:06:20no
01:06:20no
01:06:21anybody
01:06:22who goes
01:06:23into films
01:06:24has to
01:06:25be a little
01:06:25crazy
01:06:26and
01:06:27has to
01:06:28be ready
01:06:28for every
01:06:29kind of
01:06:32disappointment
01:06:32and defeat
01:06:33and must
01:06:35be grateful
01:06:35for any
01:06:36kind of
01:06:36evening
01:06:37such as
01:06:38this
01:06:38that he
01:06:38can get
01:06:39out of
01:06:39it
01:06:40it is
01:06:41an almost
01:06:41it's
01:06:42mathematically
01:06:43almost
01:06:43an impossible
01:06:44medium
01:06:45to succeed
01:06:47in
01:06:48on the
01:06:49on any
01:06:49sort
01:06:50of
01:06:50important
01:06:51level
01:06:51and
01:06:52to have
01:06:53achieved
01:06:56enough
01:06:56interest
01:06:57for
01:06:57you have
01:06:58come
01:06:58into this
01:06:59room
01:06:59is
01:07:01the answer
01:07:02to conflict
01:07:03with society
01:07:04I'm in
01:07:04conflict
01:07:06with the
01:07:07Reagan
01:07:07administration
01:07:15and that's
01:07:16sure in
01:07:16hell
01:07:16as in
01:07:17society
01:07:21yes
01:07:21or sir
01:07:23or what
01:07:25who's got
01:07:26a microphone
01:07:27near it
01:07:27who's near
01:07:28a microphone
01:07:29there
01:07:31yes
01:07:31I was wondering
01:07:33why in the
01:07:33prologue to the
01:07:34film
01:07:34I was wondering
01:07:36why in the
01:07:37prologue to the
01:07:37film you chose
01:07:38to use the
01:07:38pin screen
01:07:39technique
01:07:39when there
01:07:40really wasn't
01:07:40that much
01:07:41actual animation
01:07:43instead of just
01:07:44using charcoal
01:07:45paintings or
01:07:46something
01:07:46oh this is
01:07:47the attempt
01:07:47this is the
01:07:49attempt to
01:07:49destroy him
01:07:51to destroy
01:07:52his faith
01:07:53to destroy
01:07:55his character
01:07:55that
01:07:56that fairy
01:07:57story
01:07:58is part of
01:07:59the plot
01:08:00against him
01:08:00we are all
01:08:01told fairy
01:08:02stories
01:08:03some of those
01:08:04fairy stories
01:08:04are in TV
01:08:05commercials
01:08:06some of them
01:08:07are in presidential
01:08:07addresses
01:08:08some of them
01:08:09are in editorials
01:08:12some of them
01:08:12are in sky
01:08:14writing
01:08:15and that
01:08:17prologue
01:08:17which by the way
01:08:18was made by a
01:08:19couple of
01:08:19wonderful mad
01:08:20Russians
01:08:20living in Paris
01:08:22and they make
01:08:23their pictures
01:08:25by putting pins
01:08:26into blocks of
01:08:28wood
01:08:29little needles
01:08:30and the needles
01:08:31are at different
01:08:32degrees of depth
01:08:35so that when a
01:08:36light falls on it
01:08:37you get the light
01:08:39and shadow
01:08:40from the pins
01:08:41or the needles
01:08:43that's what those
01:08:44extraordinary pictures
01:08:45come from
01:08:46and I thought they
01:08:47gave a
01:08:48a
01:08:50in other words
01:08:51that was the
01:08:52marriage to the
01:08:53brothers Grimm
01:08:55and we repeat
01:08:56the story
01:08:57when
01:08:58when I
01:08:59attempt again
01:09:00to corrupt him
01:09:02I'm
01:09:03I'm his chief
01:09:04corrupter
01:09:04I'm the devil
01:09:09if the fable
01:09:11is a lie
01:09:11and what
01:09:13Hassler says
01:09:14are also lies
01:09:15why do you
01:09:16tell the story
01:09:17at the beginning
01:09:19of the movie
01:09:19in character
01:09:20as yourself
01:09:24because
01:09:28the film
01:09:29is contained
01:09:30the
01:09:31the life
01:09:31of this man
01:09:32is contained
01:09:33within a lie
01:09:34we do not
01:09:36have
01:09:36the kind
01:09:37of novel
01:09:38in which
01:09:39a character
01:09:40leaves
01:09:41a real
01:09:42or benign
01:09:43world
01:09:44and enters
01:09:45a world
01:09:46of nightmare
01:09:46he was
01:09:48born into
01:09:49it
01:09:49conceived
01:09:51in the womb
01:09:52of horror
01:09:53that's why
01:09:54I begin
01:09:54with it
01:09:57in other words
01:09:58he can't escape
01:10:00because
01:10:01that's where
01:10:02he was born
01:10:03any more than
01:10:04a baby
01:10:05in Bangladesh
01:10:06can escape
01:10:07dying of starvation
01:10:11I don't know
01:10:11if this is a
01:10:12meaningful point
01:10:13but when you
01:10:13are speaking
01:10:14at the beginning
01:10:15of the picture
01:10:15you are not
01:10:16in character
01:10:17as Hassler
01:10:17you are playing
01:10:18the voice
01:10:18of Orson Welles
01:10:19as you are
01:10:20playing at the end
01:10:21of the movie
01:10:21now that's the
01:10:22magician
01:10:23I'm tricking
01:10:24the audience
01:10:25into believing
01:10:26that that's a
01:10:27point of view
01:10:29so that
01:10:29in a certain
01:10:30atmosphere
01:10:31because that
01:10:31kind of trickery
01:10:32is legitimate
01:10:33I think
01:10:33I want the
01:10:34audience
01:10:35to feel
01:10:37the doom
01:10:39into which
01:10:39K is born
01:10:42and to believe
01:10:43that it is there
01:10:44it's the voice
01:10:45of the devil
01:10:49but it's not
01:10:50my voice
01:10:51it's not
01:10:51my dream
01:10:54yes
01:10:54you've made
01:10:55the continuous
01:10:56references to
01:10:57Spain
01:10:57when you talked
01:10:58about bravery
01:10:58when you talked
01:10:59about Don Quixote
01:11:00when you talked
01:11:01about your project
01:11:02as talking
01:11:03of Spain
01:11:03I think
01:11:05I once read
01:11:06that you wanted
01:11:06to become
01:11:06even a bullfighter
01:11:07I didn't want to
01:11:09I was one
01:11:11hard to believe
01:11:12I did it
01:11:13I did it
01:11:14by buying
01:11:15the bulls
01:11:18what I wanted
01:11:19to know
01:11:19is what does
01:11:20Spain culturally
01:11:21represent for you
01:11:23since you seem
01:11:24to have so much
01:11:25love for it
01:11:26anybody of my
01:11:27generation
01:11:28Spain means
01:11:29means enormous
01:11:30things you cannot
01:11:31possibly appreciate
01:11:32because
01:11:34the Spanish
01:11:36Civil War
01:11:36was the central
01:11:38was the central
01:11:41tragedy
01:11:42of anybody's
01:11:43life
01:11:44who is my age
01:11:46and it's hard
01:11:47to explain
01:11:48to anybody
01:11:49who is younger
01:11:49but there it is
01:11:51and it's part
01:11:52of the subject
01:11:53of the political
01:11:54movie
01:11:54I'm
01:11:54contemporary
01:11:56political movie
01:11:56I want to make
01:11:57which is called
01:11:58The Big Brass Ring
01:12:03Sir
01:12:03Are you just as
01:12:05politically engaged
01:12:06and politically
01:12:07minded now
01:12:08as you were
01:12:08in the 30s
01:12:09and 40s
01:12:09because at the time
01:12:10you wrote a lot
01:12:11about politics
01:12:11Yes
01:12:12I'm not as
01:12:13politically engaged
01:12:15for two reasons
01:12:16I'm as politically
01:12:18minded
01:12:18I'm more interested
01:12:20in politics
01:12:20than in anything
01:12:21in the world
01:12:22much more interested
01:12:23in politics
01:12:24than I am in movies
01:12:25or art
01:12:26or anything
01:12:27the truth is
01:12:29that every
01:12:29work of art
01:12:31is a political
01:12:32statement
01:12:35When you deliberately
01:12:37make it
01:12:38you
01:12:39the audience
01:12:40is going to get
01:12:41dizzy
01:12:42When you deliberately
01:12:43make it
01:12:44you usually fall
01:12:45into the trap
01:12:46of rhetoric
01:12:47and
01:12:49the trap
01:12:50of speaking
01:12:51to a convinced
01:12:51audience
01:12:52rather than
01:12:53convincing an audience
01:12:55I don't believe
01:12:56I think some movies
01:12:58and some books
01:12:59and
01:13:00God
01:13:01some paintings
01:13:03have changed
01:13:04the face
01:13:05of the world
01:13:07but I don't think
01:13:08it is
01:13:09the duty
01:13:09of every artist
01:13:10to change
01:13:11the face
01:13:11of the world
01:13:12He is doing it
01:13:13by being an artist
01:13:15That just automatically
01:13:17goes with it
01:13:19And he may be
01:13:20doing harm
01:13:21when he doesn't
01:13:21mean to
01:13:24But oh God
01:13:25deliver us
01:13:26from the people
01:13:26who tell us
01:13:27what is right
01:13:28and what is wrong
01:13:31What is moral
01:13:32and what is immoral
01:13:33From a political
01:13:35point of view
01:13:36It's just as
01:13:38inexcusable
01:13:39as from a sexual
01:13:40point of view
01:13:42Seems to me
01:13:45Of course we hate
01:13:46the real vices
01:13:48of the world
01:13:49Of course we hate
01:13:49racism
01:13:50and we hate
01:13:51oppression
01:13:52and all of that
01:13:52kind of thing
01:13:53It goes without saying
01:13:54If you
01:13:54If
01:13:55If
01:13:56If
01:13:56If
01:13:56If
01:13:57If
01:13:57You didn't agree
01:13:58with that
01:13:59you wouldn't be here
01:14:00You wouldn't have
01:14:00sat through the trial
01:14:01We wouldn't be
01:14:02getting along
01:14:02well together
01:14:03I'm talking about
01:14:04that
01:14:06majority
01:14:07of people
01:14:08who can read a book
01:14:09and talk about
01:14:10something
01:14:11who are in general
01:14:12agreement
01:14:12about
01:14:15what you have
01:14:16to call
01:14:16the basics
01:14:19rather than
01:14:20dogmas
01:14:20Yeah
01:14:21I was wondering
01:14:23what scene
01:14:24in the trial
01:14:25that you felt
01:14:27What did you say?
01:14:28Repeat
01:14:32That's so cruel
01:14:33It's just like a scene
01:14:34in the trial
01:14:35Repeat
01:14:35You know
01:14:37Again
01:14:39And
01:14:41In reviewing
01:14:42your prints
01:14:42now
01:14:43years later
01:14:43I wondered
01:14:44if you could
01:14:45give us some hint
01:14:46as to
01:14:47what you thought
01:14:48you would change
01:14:48in the trial
01:14:49What scene
01:14:50that you feel
01:14:50the worst about
01:14:51that makes you
01:14:51cringe the most
01:14:52and how you would
01:14:53change that
01:14:54to make it
01:14:54a better scene
01:14:56I would be able
01:14:57to answer that
01:14:59question
01:14:59if I'd
01:15:00ever seen
01:15:00the trial
01:15:01since I made it
01:15:04But I don't go
01:15:05I never see my movies
01:15:06after I make them
01:15:07You don't have
01:15:08any regrets
01:15:08about the trial
01:15:09at all
01:15:10That's why
01:15:11I don't go
01:15:12to see it
01:15:17It's one long
01:15:18regret
01:15:19you know
01:15:19There it is
01:15:20in a can
01:15:20forever
01:15:23I can't see
01:15:24where our
01:15:25microphone is
01:15:25so I don't know
01:15:26who has the
01:15:28best fighting
01:15:28chance
01:15:29Over there
01:15:33I remember
01:15:34your eulogy
01:15:35to Jean Renoir
01:15:36a couple years ago
01:15:37in the Los Angeles
01:15:38Times
01:15:38and I was wondering
01:15:39if you'd share
01:15:39with us your feelings
01:15:40on the passing
01:15:41of Abel Gantz
01:15:42a couple days ago
01:15:47I'm so sorry
01:15:48I don't have
01:15:49the wish
01:15:54of Abel Gantz
01:16:04It's a very painful
01:16:06very painful
01:16:07question for me
01:16:07because I have
01:16:09enormous respect
01:16:10for his inventiveness
01:16:12and his originality
01:16:16but he is not
01:16:17in my
01:16:19top list
01:16:20of directors
01:16:21and the fact
01:16:21that he died
01:16:22does not change that
01:16:26Sorry
01:16:29I made his last picture
01:16:30with him
01:16:31and that my opinion
01:16:33is not from that picture
01:16:34it's based on Napoleon
01:16:37He was a man obsessed
01:16:38He had a magnificent obsession
01:16:40He had an enormous
01:16:41visual sense
01:16:43He contributed
01:16:45incredibly
01:16:46to our
01:16:47vocabulary
01:16:48in the cinema
01:16:49but I'm much more
01:16:51interested in
01:16:53movies about
01:16:54people
01:16:58and I don't think
01:16:59he made one
01:17:02Napoleon is a big subject
01:17:04and it can be
01:17:05dealt with
01:17:06with a cast
01:17:06of 20 people
01:17:14Sir
01:17:15Excuse me
01:17:17Where is
01:17:18where is this person
01:17:20I'm cast
01:17:21appalled
01:17:21a meeting
01:17:22I know
01:17:23I thought there was
01:17:24someone up here
01:17:24An actor friend of mine
01:17:26once told me
01:17:27that he thought
01:17:27one of the great moments
01:17:28in films
01:17:29in The Third Man
01:17:29and the light falls
01:17:31on you
01:17:31and you're revealed
01:17:32Oh it is one
01:17:33of the great moments
01:17:37But remember
01:17:38I didn't direct it
01:17:39Carol Reed directed it
01:17:41And do you know
01:17:42that we went
01:17:43Do you know
01:17:44that every
01:17:44We had that set built
01:17:46on another stage
01:17:48And every afternoon
01:17:49for five days
01:17:51at the end
01:17:53of the day's shooting
01:17:53we went
01:17:54and shot it again
01:17:56until Carol
01:17:57had it exactly
01:17:58the way he wanted it
01:17:59because he knew
01:18:00it was the key
01:18:00moment of the movie
01:18:13I think that you see
01:18:15what do I look for
01:18:17in actors
01:18:17and I think acting
01:18:21is like sculpture
01:18:25not modeling
01:18:26the kind
01:18:27where you carve it
01:18:27out of marble
01:18:28I think that
01:18:30a performance
01:18:32when it is
01:18:32deserves to be
01:18:34considered great
01:18:35or important
01:18:37he is always
01:18:38entirely made up
01:18:40of the actor himself
01:18:43and
01:18:44entirely achieved
01:18:45by what he has
01:18:46left in the dressing room
01:18:48before he came out
01:18:49in front of the camera
01:18:50In other words
01:18:52it's what you
01:18:52take away from yourself
01:18:57to reveal
01:18:59the truth
01:19:00of what you're doing
01:19:01that makes
01:19:02a performance
01:19:03and if an actor
01:19:05doesn't have an ability
01:19:06to do that
01:19:07I use him only
01:19:08if he has a good face
01:19:09for a few lines
01:19:11I think I can tell
01:19:12those actors
01:19:13from others
01:19:13I've made disastrous
01:19:15mistakes
01:19:15but I think
01:19:17essentially
01:19:20there is no such thing
01:19:21as becoming
01:19:22another character
01:19:23by putting on
01:19:24a lot of makeup
01:19:26you may need
01:19:26to put the makeup
01:19:27but what you're
01:19:28really doing
01:19:28is undressing yourself
01:19:32and even tearing
01:19:33yourself apart
01:19:34and presenting
01:19:36to the public
01:19:36that part of you
01:19:39which corresponds
01:19:40to what you are playing
01:19:42and there is a villain
01:19:43in each of us
01:19:44a murderer
01:19:44in each of us
01:19:45a fascist
01:19:46in each of us
01:19:47a saint
01:19:49in each of us
01:19:50and the actor
01:19:52is the man
01:19:54or woman
01:19:54who can
01:19:57eliminate
01:19:58from himself
01:19:59those things
01:20:00which will interfere
01:20:01with that truth
01:20:03so I look for
01:20:04those kind of people
01:20:05and I look for
01:20:06the right face
01:20:07because
01:20:08after all
01:20:09the camera
01:20:10the camera
01:20:13makes pictures
01:20:15and it likes
01:20:16people
01:20:16and dislikes
01:20:17people
01:20:18you have to
01:20:18try to guess
01:20:19which ones
01:20:20it will like
01:20:20and which it won't
01:20:21yes sir
01:20:22did you have
01:20:23any particular reason
01:20:24for updating
01:20:25the trial
01:20:25into the 1960s
01:20:28when you made
01:20:28the movie
01:20:29you made it
01:20:29as a present
01:20:30from the time
01:20:31that you made it
01:20:31it was a present
01:20:31I tried to do
01:20:35a rather
01:20:35tricky thing
01:20:37I tried to make
01:20:37a picture
01:20:38which really
01:20:40existed
01:20:40in its own time
01:20:41but which didn't
01:20:43abuse the eye
01:20:44of the audience
01:20:45and not abuse
01:20:47alienate
01:20:48the audience
01:20:49by becoming
01:20:50a costume picture
01:20:52but I made it
01:20:53as though it were
01:20:54happening in its time
01:20:56and the people
01:20:57were accidentally
01:20:58dressed in our own time
01:20:59that was the intention
01:21:00whether it was
01:21:01successful or not
01:21:02is for you to tell me
01:21:04sir
01:21:06I'm working on a project
01:21:08like the trial
01:21:08of some of your other films
01:21:09where you have written
01:21:10and directed
01:21:12does Orson Welles
01:21:13the director
01:21:14ever get in the way
01:21:15of Orson Welles
01:21:16the writer
01:21:16or how closely
01:21:17does one follow
01:21:18the other
01:21:20I think of it
01:21:21as a happy marriage
01:21:26seriously
01:21:26no I don't think so
01:21:29I rewrite
01:21:30when I have
01:21:31an original script
01:21:32and in Shakespeare
01:21:33somebody didn't write it
01:21:34I am rewriting
01:21:35all the time
01:21:37on the set
01:21:37and the director
01:21:39never gives me
01:21:40any trouble at all
01:21:42and I think
01:21:43because I feel
01:21:45a sense of obligation
01:21:47to the script
01:21:51which is rather
01:21:52more acute
01:21:53because it's my own
01:21:55do you find one
01:21:56more difficult
01:21:57than the other
01:21:58to do
01:21:58writing or directing
01:21:59well everybody
01:22:01finds writing
01:22:02the hardest thing
01:22:03in the world
01:22:03to do
01:22:04you know
01:22:05Hemingway
01:22:06used to describe
01:22:07to me
01:22:07how marvelous
01:22:08it was
01:22:09to have spent
01:22:10a morning
01:22:11when it was
01:22:11all true
01:22:12and it was all
01:22:13coming right
01:22:14and it was all
01:22:14it was
01:22:15like the greatest
01:22:16love making
01:22:17in the world
01:22:17it was like a true
01:22:18moment in the arena
01:22:19and all of this
01:22:20and about
01:22:22a week later
01:22:23we were forced
01:22:24by our wives
01:22:25to go to the ballet
01:22:27and I shared
01:22:29with Ernest
01:22:30and I was his friend
01:22:31so long ago
01:22:32that I called him
01:22:34Ernest
01:22:34he wasn't even
01:22:35Papa
01:22:35when I first knew him
01:22:38I shared with him
01:22:39an intense
01:22:40dislike of the ballet
01:22:43I only like
01:22:44great ballet dancers
01:22:45at great moments
01:22:46the rest of the time
01:22:47nod you see
01:22:48and we were sitting there
01:22:53and I felt him
01:22:54moving around
01:22:55like this
01:22:56you know
01:22:57and he
01:22:58suddenly said to me
01:22:59Christ
01:23:00I'd rather be writing
01:23:14that's it
01:23:14good night
01:23:15and thank you very much
01:23:16everybody
01:23:31thank you very much
01:23:31thank you very much
01:23:31and thank you very much
01:23:32for being here
01:23:33thank you
01:23:33thank you very much
01:23:35thank you very much
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