00:00The platform just sees massive flow of data, right? It's an HR platform, an analytics platform that
00:05sees the world through numbers. And that's why I love having you on the program. I just outlined
00:12the story. Two of the biggest companies in this country and in the world cutting levels that we've
00:17not seen, but spending a lot. Is that the trade-off that companies are managing right now?
00:22We're seeing this across the board. It's a trend in tech ed, and it is really important right now
00:28that we look at people and their performance and not just what they're doing with tokens or what
00:34they're doing with AI. It's very interesting right now how you see leaders that are investing in
00:39severance and not necessarily the skills. It's a transformation in tech, and we need to have
00:45leaders with the courage to take people from here to there. Job cuts and roles being eliminated is
00:51not pleasant, right? And if anyone from Meta or Microsoft is watching, reach out. Tell us what
00:57your experience has been. But what you said on performance is so interesting. So what,
01:02the managers are measuring this in revenue per employee or output per employee to make that
01:07decision? You see a lot. You see revenue per employee. You also see token maxing as a trend
01:12right now. In this day and age, yeah.
01:14Yes, right? But ask yourselves, would you look at the person at your company that sends the most email
01:20as the most productive? It's a new thing that we can use to measure. It's not necessarily the
01:25correlation to performance. And what we need to do is help people get from where we are today to
01:32where we're going to with AI. You know, a lot of people would look at the overall size of a
01:36Microsoft or a Meta and say, you know, well, 10,000 roles or 8,000 roles is or isn't a
01:44lot to
01:44anyone's point of view. From the payroll perspective, does cutting that level really free up capital?
01:51Does it take the pressure off the finance teams? It doesn't really relieve the pressure. And it also
01:57deeply impacts culture. Whether it's one person or 1,000 people or 10,000, it is a human. And people
02:04care about what happens to other humans. So there's a real cost on the spreadsheet. There's also a real
02:09cultural cost to what it means to lay off people. I always try and look deeper. What's the underlying
02:16story? I remember when you and I were talking kind of more immediately after the pandemic,
02:20the idea was to undo pandemic era exuberance and hiring. Now it's, you know, it's about the AI era,
02:27right? And freeing up for CapEx. But what those two things have in common is when you see waves of
02:32layoffs to that level, they're really experienced people in there. Sometimes they go and found companies
02:36of their own. Yeah, no, it's what we're seeing right now is a big transformation in tech. And it's
02:42not just for the companies, it's also for the people with the careers. They've spent
02:46years, decades even, working on refining their craft. And what it means to be told to change
02:53overnight. It's like me telling you, be in Europe in an hour. Unless you know how to teleport,
02:58it's not possible. But you can get there in a day. And so everybody's looking right now,
03:04how do I transform? How do I evolve with AI? And it's something that's the responsibility of leaders
03:10and also people to take it into their selves to learn as well.
03:15I also want to make the distinction, you know, Meta is doing cuts. Microsoft is doing what I used
03:21to call in the UK voluntary redundancies, but buyouts here in America. Is there something to
03:27learn from that distinction or it's just a different means to the same end?
03:31It's still an investment in severance and not in the skills in your people. And that's the big
03:35difference. And so the more that we can invest in how we train people, how we get them from point
03:41A
03:41to point B, the better that we will all be because it's a short term gain on the spreadsheet,
03:46but a long term loss in the knowledge that you have in the workforce.
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