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A vitória de Péter Magyar na Hungria - qual é o impacto em Bruxelas?
Nesta nova edição de The Ring, transmitida a partir do Parlamento Europeu em Bruxelas, os eurodeputados Daniel Freund (Verdes) e Sander Smit (ECR) debatem o resultado das eleições húngaras e o que isso significa para a Europa.
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/04/22/a-vitoria-de-peter-magyar-na-hungria-qual-e-o-impacto-em-bruxelas
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
Nesta nova edição de The Ring, transmitida a partir do Parlamento Europeu em Bruxelas, os eurodeputados Daniel Freund (Verdes) e Sander Smit (ECR) debatem o resultado das eleições húngaras e o que isso significa para a Europa.
LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/04/22/a-vitoria-de-peter-magyar-na-hungria-qual-e-o-impacto-em-bruxelas
Subscreva, euronews está disponível em 12 línguas.
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NotíciasTranscrição
00:08Olá e bem-vindos ao The Ring,
00:11Euronews's weekly debate show
00:13broadcasting from the European Parliament
00:15here in Brussels.
00:16I'm Stefan Groben.
00:18On The Ring, elected members of the European Parliament
00:20go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues
00:23facing the EU.
00:25Today, we're going to talk about the outcome
00:27of the Hungarian election and what it means for Europe.
00:31Luis Alberto has more.
00:35Peter Magyar's landslide victory
00:37in Hungary's parliamentary elections on Sunday
00:39has sparked renewed optimism in Brussels.
00:42After years of Viktor Orbán's controversial rule,
00:45the change in government has raised hopes
00:47that previously stalled EU support for Ukraine
00:50may finally be unblocked.
00:52While the European Union faces increasing global challenges
00:56from Ukraine to the Middle East,
00:58its foreign policy responses often appear slow and fragmented,
01:02raising doubts about whether its current structure
01:04remains fit for purpose.
01:07A central point of debate lies in the EU's decision-making,
01:10particularly the requirement for unanimity.
01:13Nevertheless, resistance from some countries
01:16to reform these rules shows how fragmented the bloc is.
01:20What does Orbán's defeat mean for the future of the EU?
01:23Beyond potential improvement in relations with Hungary,
01:26the Union still faces a broader question.
01:28Does it need radical reform to avoid being sidelined
01:31on the global stage?
01:34A lot to unpack here for our contenders.
01:37And here they are.
01:40Daniel Freund, a German MEP from the Greens European Free Alliance Group.
01:45He serves on the Committee on Budgetary Control
01:47and Constitutional Affairs
01:49and is a vocal advocate for stronger EU institutions
01:52and stricter oversight of EU funds.
01:54A fierce defender of a federal Europe,
01:57he said,
01:57the unanimity principle is a security risk for Europe.
02:01More democracy,
02:02more European security,
02:03and less blackmailing by autocrats.
02:05Orbán is history,
02:07the end of the corrupt dictator.
02:09Sandor Smit,
02:10a Dutch MEP from the European Conservatives
02:12and Reformists Group.
02:14He serves on the Committee on Constitutional Affairs.
02:17Regarding the result of the elections in Hungary,
02:19he said,
02:20we must respect that the new Hungarian government
02:23has received a strong mandate from its citizens
02:25with a conservative agenda of national sovereignty,
02:28anti-Green Deal,
02:29and anti-immigration positions.
02:31Sustainable EU decision-making
02:33cannot rely on bypassing national democracy.
02:37So, let me welcome to the ring
02:39Daniel Freund and Sander Smit.
02:41Great to have you here.
02:42Good to see you both.
02:44Now, the aim of the ring
02:46is to offer our viewers
02:47a glimpse at European Parliament debates
02:49so you should feel right at home.
02:52Are you ready?
02:53Yes.
02:53We're ready.
02:54All right.
02:54So, let's kick it off
02:55with the stunner of the week,
02:57the election in Hungary.
02:59Sander,
03:00was there anything surprising in the outcome?
03:02Not very surprising.
03:03We're satisfied.
03:04I think the Hungarian people
03:05has clearly spoken,
03:07has taken a stance
03:08about their future,
03:09what they want in the new leadership,
03:11and they clearly wanted a new leader
03:14after 16 years of Viktor Orban.
03:16Well, Daniel,
03:17that's certainly true,
03:18but the numbers were really, really stunning.
03:20Did you have that on your radar?
03:22I mean, there had been polls,
03:24but there is such a clear two-thirds majority,
03:26and I think the surprising thing in the end
03:28was how quickly and clearly
03:31Viktor Orban conceded,
03:33because there was some fear
03:34that he was not just going to go,
03:36but now it looks like...
03:38But the numbers were just too strong, right?
03:39Exactly.
03:40But still, this is impressive.
03:43I was there in Budapest on the ground,
03:45and seeing just random people
03:47high-fiving, cheering,
03:48chanting in the streets,
03:50celebrating the end of the mafia state,
03:52I think this was a big moment for Europe.
03:54End of the mafia state, you agree?
03:55I think that we shouldn't polarise too much.
03:57We can still see that democracy
04:00and democratic values within the Hungarian people,
04:03society, and even state institutions,
04:05survived, were upheld.
04:07Orban clearly conceded his loss,
04:10and I think we shouldn't now overdo
04:12all the speculation beforehand.
04:14I was a bit worried by certain left-wing politicians
04:18polarising before the elections.
04:20I think that could have harmed the outcome
04:22of Tisha as an electoral result in the end,
04:25but the Hungarian people were,
04:26I think, independent enough
04:28and sovereign enough
04:28to decide on their own state.
04:31I have to ask you this,
04:32one more on Viktor Orban,
04:33before we move on.
04:35Over the last past years,
04:36he has become the boogeyman
04:37in the European Union,
04:38but he wasn't all that bad.
04:40I mean, in 90% of the cases,
04:42he always voted with the European Council.
04:45So, are we now going back to business?
04:47Well, it's a bit saying
04:4890% he voted with the others.
04:50Yeah, whenever his vote didn't matter,
04:53but where it did matter
04:54on the unanimous decisions,
04:56I mean, I asked the Parliament Research Service
04:58before the elections
04:59to give me the numbers,
05:00and Orban has vetoed more
05:01than pretty much everyone else combined.
05:04Every single unanimous decision
05:06we have taken in the last years,
05:08first we get a veto from Viktor Orban,
05:10and he demands concessions,
05:12he blackmails the Union.
05:13So, I think we have never seen anything like him
05:16in the history of the European Union.
05:18Right, Sander, do you agree?
05:19I mean, after all,
05:21pronouncing a veto, that's his right.
05:23Yeah, that's the right of smaller member states.
05:25I think in the last years,
05:26I can agree with Mr. Freund
05:29that there was an abuse,
05:30especially also for the interest
05:31of foreign actors, foreign states,
05:33third countries.
05:34I think that was worrying.
05:36But in the end,
05:36we need this veto
05:38to defend the rights
05:39of smaller countries as a principle.
05:41In the case of Hungary,
05:42I think I worked alongside Fidesz
05:44during many years
05:46when I was a parliamentary advisor
05:48here in the institutions.
05:49And back then,
05:50they were really aligning always
05:52with the Juncker Commission
05:53in the first years
05:56with the von der Leyen Commission.
05:57So, I don't think
05:58they're the ones
05:59always blocking EU policy.
06:02Not always blocking.
06:04He did block everything on Ukraine,
06:07basically.
06:07Is this, today,
06:10is this the beginning
06:11of a new dawn?
06:13Is spring coming to Brussels?
06:14What's going to be
06:15the vibe here in this town?
06:17I mean, the veto-in-chief
06:18is now gone.
06:19So, I hope, clearly,
06:21that now there is
06:23a real willingness to act.
06:25But I also hope
06:26that member states understand
06:28that we cannot let this happen
06:30ever again.
06:31We should not allow
06:32a second Orbán
06:33to now emerge,
06:35either because he comes back
06:36one day,
06:36or someone else
06:37follows in his footsteps.
06:39I mean, that a single guy
06:40can basically block
06:41an entire union,
06:43can risk our security,
06:44and uses the veto
06:46not to defend his
06:47or the Hungarian interest,
06:48but to just basically
06:50blackmail and extort from us.
06:52This is something
06:53that we should not let
06:54happen ever again.
06:55So, we need reform.
06:56We need reform.
06:57No, I think we need
06:58to keep the unanimity principle
07:00as such, the treaties,
07:02enshrine this principle,
07:03not because it's an idea
07:06of some Brussels bureaucrat.
07:09It was really well thought out
07:11because smaller member states
07:13need to be defended
07:14against larger member states
07:17through qualified majority voting,
07:19overruling their national interests.
07:20I, myself,
07:22hailing from a small member state,
07:24the Netherlands
07:24know very well
07:26what this could mean.
07:27Small but powerful.
07:27Small but powerful,
07:28but nevertheless,
07:29I think we need to defend
07:30the smaller member states'
07:31national sovereignty as well.
07:33How confident are you?
07:35Peter Magyar was elected
07:37on a national sovereignty
07:39electoral program,
07:40and I think it's a bit weird
07:42if we act now
07:43as if nothing of such...
07:46That's a good point.
07:47How confident are you
07:48that Peter Magyar
07:48will actually, you know,
07:50change the dynamics
07:51and not throw in the veto?
07:54I mean, already he has changed
07:56the dynamics, right?
07:57If you look at the relationship
07:58that Peter Magyar has
08:00with people like Donald Tusk,
08:01with Emmanuel Macron now,
08:03they talk,
08:04they call each other
08:05on the phone.
08:05We haven't seen that
08:06with Viktor Orban
08:07in months and months.
08:08So already there is
08:10a different relationship,
08:11and I think he has been
08:12very clear that he wants
08:14a constructive relationship
08:15with the European Union.
08:17I think it's clear
08:17that the veto on the 90 billion
08:19for Ukraine will go away,
08:21and we will be able
08:22to help Ukraine
08:23also financially now.
08:25And I think, I mean,
08:26having been there in Budapest
08:28on the ground on Sunday,
08:29when he said things like that
08:30he's going to have
08:31this constructive relationship,
08:33that he wants to join
08:34the European public prosecutor,
08:35jointly work against corruption.
08:37There were cheers
08:38from tens of thousands
08:39of people screaming,
08:40Europe, Europe.
08:42So I think this is
08:43very different than
08:44what we have seen
08:45in the last 16 years
08:46from Viktor Orban.
08:47Of course,
08:48what Mr. Freund
08:49is speaking about
08:49is very important,
08:50but that was what I was
08:52pleading in favor of.
08:53We need coordinated unity,
08:55not forced unity,
08:56not a forced unity
08:57forced upon smaller members.
08:59We need coordination,
09:01speaking with other
09:02heads of government,
09:03and that's what
09:04Peter Magyar is doing now.
09:05That's very positive,
09:06but that doesn't mean
09:07we need to get rid
09:08of the unanimity principle,
09:09and I really doubt
09:11that Peter Magyar
09:12would agree with Mr. Freund
09:13to get rid
09:14of the unanimity principle,
09:16because he was elected
09:17as a national sovereignty,
09:19and we have
09:19a Hungarian parliament now,
09:21so that's,
09:21I was a bit surprised
09:23to see left-wing
09:23and liberal politicians
09:24cheering for a new
09:26Hungarian parliament
09:27entirely composed
09:28out of right-wing,
09:30center-right,
09:31national conservative,
09:33nationalist,
09:33and ultra-nationalist parties.
09:35There's no Social Democrat,
09:37Green,
09:37or liberal party left,
09:38so I think
09:39this conservative mandate
09:41given by the Hungarian voters
09:43is very clear
09:44and should also be respected
09:45in the European Union,
09:46and we have to work together
09:47to coordinate with Peter Magyar,
09:49and I'm very happy
09:50that he will unblock
09:51the 90 billion euro
09:52for Ukraine,
09:54but we shouldn't do
09:55as if he's now
09:56like a Volt or a Green MEP
09:58pleading in favor
10:00of a European federation.
10:01Your thoughts on this, Daniel?
10:03Well, I mean,
10:04having spoken with actually
10:05lots of Hungarians
10:06on the ground,
10:08this is not a conservative vote.
10:10I mean,
10:11most people in this election
10:12voted for Europe,
10:14voted for democracy,
10:15voted for the rule of law,
10:16and voted to kick
10:17Viktor Orban out.
10:19This is what motivated
10:21most of those people
10:22that now voted
10:23actually for Peter Magyar,
10:24and the big question now
10:26for him is basically
10:26if he is going to represent
10:29that voter base or not,
10:32because many people
10:33actually voted
10:34in this election
10:34with the hope
10:35that they will be able
10:36to cast their vote
10:37that they really want to cast
10:38in four years' time,
10:40once democracy
10:41has been restored,
10:42once there is independent media,
10:43once there is rule of law
10:44in the country.
10:46This was not about
10:47a conservative agenda.
10:48this was about
10:49getting rid of all of it.
10:50All right, all right.
10:50Let me stop you there,
10:52as we are just getting
10:53warmed up here,
10:54as you have noticed.
10:59Now it's time
11:00for our viewers
11:01to get a real flavor
11:03of the European Parliament
11:04chamber,
11:04where members
11:05ask each other questions.
11:07And sometimes
11:08it can get heated.
11:09That means it's time
11:11for you both
11:12to challenge
11:13each other directly,
11:14just as you do
11:15and the Himmish cycle
11:16behind us.
11:17So, let's get started.
11:19And Sander,
11:20the floor is yours.
11:21Yes, Mr. Freund,
11:23you're really pleading
11:25in favor of getting rid
11:26of unanimity.
11:27What would you do
11:28in a future situation
11:29with the Greens
11:30in Germany
11:31being a coalition party,
11:33in a coalition
11:33in Germany,
11:34in Berlin,
11:35having this coalition
11:36forced a European Council
11:38decision upon them
11:40to, for instance,
11:41go to war,
11:43like in the past
11:44on Iraq or Iran?
11:46How would your party
11:47in that case react?
11:49Would you agree
11:50with such a stance
11:51being imposed
11:52on the German government
11:53to go to war
11:54by an EU decision?
11:57Well, I mean,
11:58I'm a Democrat.
11:59I'm being outvoted
12:00here in the European Parliament
12:01on an almost daily basis.
12:03That's how it goes.
12:05This is democracy.
12:06I'm not pleading
12:07for a veto
12:08here in the European Parliament.
12:09Imagine if among us
12:11720 members
12:13of the European Parliament
12:13we would have
12:14to strike consensus,
12:16we would have
12:16to reach unanimity
12:18on every decision.
12:19This House
12:19would be completely
12:20dysfunctional.
12:21And it's a little bit
12:23similar among 27
12:24in the Council.
12:25So, yeah,
12:26I would accept decisions
12:27that go against
12:28my beliefs.
12:29I can fight for them.
12:30But at the end,
12:31we vote.
12:32And I accept that
12:33if we vote by majority,
12:34I can lose.
12:35All right.
12:36Are you happy with that?
12:37No, that basically means
12:38abolishing the national
12:40sovereignty
12:40of the German Bundestag
12:42over its foreign policy
12:43and military policy.
12:44That's a different question
12:46than I want Daniel
12:47to ask, Alexander.
12:48Well, my question
12:49is basically,
12:50I mean, you have said
12:50that, you know,
12:51the veto needs to remain.
12:53But if you look,
12:55for example,
12:55on the process
12:56of accession
12:56of a new member state,
12:58and I could even say,
12:59you know,
12:59taking a unanimous vote
13:01at the end,
13:02maybe we keep that
13:03for now.
13:04But do we need
13:07150 unanimous votes
13:08in the process
13:09where every single question
13:11needs to be opened
13:12by unanimity,
13:13needs to be closed
13:13by unanimity?
13:15I mean,
13:15isn't 150 vetoes
13:17or unanimous decision
13:19on a decision like that
13:20a bit exaggerated?
13:21Can't we bring that down
13:22to maybe one
13:25in the end?
13:25The current treaty
13:27already has a passerelle clause
13:29to deal with
13:29such certain issues.
13:31I think we can
13:32find solutions there
13:33without doing away
13:35with national sovereignty
13:36and unanimity principle.
13:38And I will repeat myself,
13:40but Peter Madja
13:41in Hungary
13:41yesterday said
13:42that he's opposed
13:43to a quick accession
13:45of instance
13:46for Ukraine.
13:46So he wants to say
13:47about every step
13:48in the process,
13:49opening of every chapter.
13:51So I don't think
13:52most smaller member states
13:54would agree
13:55to your approach there.
13:57Follow up, Daniel?
13:58Well, I think at the end
14:01we have to decide
14:02whether we want
14:03a European Union
14:03that is still able
14:04to act in a world,
14:06you know,
14:06with Trump,
14:07with Xi,
14:08with Putin,
14:09whether we're just
14:10the playing ball
14:11for the big guys
14:12or whether we get
14:13a seat at the table
14:14and a voice
14:15that is actually heard.
14:16You speak a lot
14:17about sovereignty
14:18and, you know,
14:19our capacity to act.
14:20And I actually think
14:21we only have that
14:23if we're able
14:24to speak with one voice
14:25and if we have
14:25the capacity to act,
14:26not one single
14:27European blocking
14:29us from that.
14:30How do you respond
14:31to that?
14:31I think we need
14:33to speak with one voice
14:34but not through
14:35forced unity
14:36but through
14:36coordinated unity.
14:38The European Union
14:39was able to act
14:40after the Russian
14:42criminal invasion
14:42of Ukraine in 2022.
14:44The EU acted upon that,
14:46provided support.
14:48So we shouldn't do
14:49as if the European Union
14:50was helpless
14:51with the unanimity principle.
14:53This is false.
14:54I think in the future
14:55we can even,
14:56your stance could even
14:57undermine support
14:58for the European Union
15:00and membership
15:00by bringing in
15:03this bomb
15:04of qualified majority
15:05voting,
15:06alienating smaller
15:07member states
15:08and creating
15:09more resentment
15:09among politicians,
15:11maybe even
15:12among Peter Magyar
15:13in Hungary
15:13but also in my own
15:14member state
15:15in the Netherlands.
15:15if you impose
15:17qualified majority
15:17voting,
15:18having France
15:19and your own
15:20member state
15:20Germany
15:20with a few others
15:21imposing their
15:22foreign policy
15:23or a military policy
15:25will upon my voters
15:27in the regions
15:28because you spoke
15:29about Budapest.
15:30I think that
15:30the population
15:31of capitals
15:32doesn't reflect
15:33the general population
15:34in EU member states
15:35or their stances
15:36and I think
15:37the large majority
15:38of voters
15:39in the countryside
15:40and in regions
15:41want to uphold
15:41the unanimity principle
15:43to make sure
15:43that every voter
15:44in every region
15:45and every member state
15:47is heard
15:48and these voters
15:49know very well
15:50we have to defend
15:50ourselves
15:51against foreign threats
15:52by third states
15:53and third countries.
15:54Sander,
15:55I gave you
15:55the last question.
15:56Yes.
15:58Mr. Freund,
15:59are you not worried
16:00I already asked it
16:01and said it before
16:02but aren't you worried
16:03that abolishing
16:04the unanimity principle
16:06will create resentment
16:07and alienate
16:08a lot of Europeans
16:09in these smaller
16:10member states
16:11having other stances
16:12than maybe
16:13majorities
16:14in larger member states
16:15for instance
16:16the Hungarian population
16:17but also in the Netherlands
16:18or in Latvia
16:19if we go towards
16:21qualified majority voting.
16:22Well, I mean
16:23you mentioned Latvia
16:24and I think
16:24the Baltic states
16:25are an interesting example
16:27you know
16:27they came out of
16:29Soviet rule
16:30joined the European Union
16:31and I think
16:31for a long time
16:32for them
16:33the veto
16:34was in a way
16:35the guarantee
16:35you know
16:36that something like
16:36in the Soviet Union
16:37doesn't happen again.
16:38Exactly.
16:39But the problem being
16:40that since the full scale
16:41invasion in Ukraine
16:42the Baltic states
16:44are realizing
16:44that if you have
16:45someone like Viktor Orban
16:46in the EU
16:47that wields the veto
16:49if all of a sudden
16:50you have unmarked
16:51Russian soldiers
16:52coming over the border
16:53into Estonia, Latvia,
16:55Lithuania
16:55well then Orban
16:57becomes a security threat
16:58because he can block
16:59any kind of reaction
17:01we don't even have
17:01an opinion
17:02on war crimes
17:03committed in Ukraine
17:04if Orban
17:06puts his veto in this
17:07because we can't have
17:08a foreign policy decision.
17:09But he's still reasoning
17:10in all terms
17:12because Orban now
17:13is out of course.
17:14I mean there will
17:14there will be others.
17:16Let's see how entrenched
17:16this thought was.
17:18But the problem is then
17:19you know
17:19that veto
17:20that can be
17:21in a way
17:22the protector of sovereignty
17:23can also become
17:24the supreme security threat
17:27and that is the situation
17:28why I think
17:29we should get rid of it.
17:30All right
17:31we have heard the views
17:32from our guests
17:33now it's time
17:34to bring in
17:34a new voice.
17:39I'd like to bring in
17:40European Commission
17:41President Ursula von der Leyen
17:42now in a press conference
17:43this week.
17:44She commented
17:45on the outcome
17:46of the Hungarian election
17:47and gave a hint
17:48of what could come next
17:49in Brussels.
17:51Here's what she said
17:52take a listen.
17:53We should also look
17:54at the lessons learned
17:56inside the European Union.
17:58For example
17:59I think moving
18:00to qualified majority voting
18:02in foreign policy
18:05is an important way
18:07to avoid
18:08systematic blockages
18:10as we've seen
18:11in the past
18:11and we should
18:13use the momentum
18:14now really
18:14to move forward
18:15on that topic.
18:16Sander,
18:17your thoughts on this?
18:18I think this is
18:19an example
18:20of a prepared
18:21politically prepared
18:23bureaucratically prepared
18:24badly timed
18:25power grab
18:26by the European Commission
18:28which has a lot
18:28to do about
18:29its own transparency
18:30and legitimacy
18:31among European voters
18:32in this era.
18:34I think that's
18:35what they should work on
18:36and not work towards
18:37abolishing national sovereignty
18:39on foreign policy
18:41on military interventions
18:43because as was said
18:44military operations
18:45we have NATO
18:46and the EU
18:47and we have seen
18:48that national democratic
18:49change is possible
18:51in Hungary
18:52that the democratic will
18:53of Hungarian voters
18:54corrected
18:55the problems
18:56we had in the European Council
18:57on support for Ukraine
19:00last support bill.
19:01Did I hear that right?
19:02Power grab
19:03of the European Commission?
19:04I think it's
19:05quite the opposite
19:06and you speak about
19:07the democratic will
19:08of the people.
19:09You know
19:09if you look at an issue
19:10like whether
19:11large corporations
19:12should pay
19:13their fair share
19:13of taxes
19:14you have an overwhelming
19:16majority of Europeans
19:17in every single member state
19:18that want that
19:19but we cannot get there
19:20because a single member state
19:22maybe
19:23one that has
19:24a very favorable
19:25tax regime
19:26for large corporations
19:27and helps to evade
19:29billions of taxes
19:29being paid
19:30can put their veto
19:32on these kind of
19:33minimum taxation levels
19:35for example.
19:36So this is another example
19:37where the veto
19:39is basically going
19:40against democracy
19:41is going against
19:42the will
19:42of the vast majority
19:44of Europeans.
19:45All right
19:46we'll come back to this
19:47let's take a break
19:48here on The Ring
19:50we'll be back
19:50with more after this.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring
20:02Euronews' weekly debate show
20:04I'm Stefan Grobe
20:05and I'm joined by
20:06Daniel Freund
20:06from the Greens
20:07and Sander Schmidt
20:08from the European Conservatives
20:10and Reformists
20:11the idea here
20:12is to bring
20:13the European Parliament's
20:14debates
20:14to your living room
20:16this week
20:17we're focusing
20:17on a key question
20:18in this building
20:19is the EU
20:21in need of
20:21wide-ranging reforms
20:23or not?
20:23One issue
20:24is the role
20:25of the EU
20:26high representative
20:27Kaya Kalas
20:28she heads
20:29the European
20:30External Action Service
20:32with its 140 plus
20:34EU delegations
20:35worldwide
20:35and employs
20:36more than
20:374,000 staff
20:38but
20:39Kalas
20:40like all her predecessors
20:41has no direct control
20:42over national armies
20:44there's also no single
20:45centralized EU
20:46foreign policy budget
20:47funding is split
20:49across institutions
20:50and member states
20:50and
20:51Kalas and her service
20:52must rely on
20:53a consensus
20:54of the 27 member states
20:56for foreign policy
20:58decisions
20:59is this
21:00efficient at all?
21:02no it's not
21:03I mean
21:04why do we
21:05pay
21:0628 different embassies
21:08in cities like
21:09Beijing
21:09or
21:09Washington
21:10I mean
21:11let's at least
21:12start with
21:13the councillor service
21:14if a European
21:14needs a new passport
21:16needs a birth certificate
21:17something
21:17why do we need
21:1928 different administrations
21:21that they can turn to
21:22isn't one
21:23enough
21:23that would be
21:24much cheaper
21:25for European
21:25taxpayers
21:26Sander
21:26your thoughts
21:27well
21:27there's a matter
21:28maybe of inefficiency
21:30in diplomacy
21:30but militarily
21:32we already
21:32have article 5
21:33of NATO
21:34article 42
21:35in the EU
21:36and we should not
21:37as an EU
21:37start to double
21:38NATO infrastructure
21:40we need to build on
21:41the European pillar
21:42I think jointly
21:43but that's on a
21:44military capacity basis
21:46not on the command
21:48structure
21:48and I really
21:49really would warn
21:52the European Union
21:53against assuming a role
21:54of commanding
21:55an EU army
21:56that would be
21:57very dangerous
21:58and create a lot of resentment
21:59but foreign policy
22:01I mean
22:01we're hearing
22:02every now and then
22:03that the commission
22:04president
22:04is sort of
22:05undermining
22:05the high representative
22:07by taking too much
22:08out of the foreign policy
22:10portfolio
22:11in her own hands
22:12why are we having
22:13a higher representative
22:14at all then
22:15I mean
22:15it is a bit
22:16of a strange animal
22:17because we didn't
22:18when we last
22:19made these treaties
22:19we didn't fully commit
22:20to have an EU
22:22foreign minister
22:22the governments
22:24wanted more control
22:25so she is half
22:26in the commission
22:27half in the council
22:28and that is precisely
22:29what creates
22:31this awkward position
22:32but if you say
22:33you know
22:34this is about sovereignty
22:35look at the sovereignty
22:36of a place
22:37like Greenland
22:38Greenland doesn't
22:40have sovereignty
22:40facing Donald Trump
22:42and the American
22:43administration
22:44they had sovereignty
22:46when Europe
22:47was together
22:48and said
22:49if you touch Greenland
22:50you're gonna
22:51you know
22:52have the joint EU
22:53against you
22:54that's when we
22:55protected the sovereignty
22:56of Greenland
22:57not every small country
22:59for itself
22:59places like Luxembourg
23:01like Estonia
23:02even a place
23:03like Germany
23:03doesn't have sovereignty
23:05in the face of China
23:06Russia
23:06or the US
23:07only together
23:08are we strong enough
23:09that we're
23:10perfectly shows
23:11that we're not a big player
23:12globally
23:13and he mentioned that earlier
23:15I think the agreement
23:16perfectly shows
23:17that if it's necessary
23:19like the Ukraine war
23:21at the start of the Ukraine war
23:22the EU is willing
23:23and able to act
23:24with the current treaties
23:25jointly
23:26we saw that on Greenland
23:27we saw it on Ukraine
23:28on the invasion
23:29by Russia
23:30but if we look at Iran
23:32and the stances
23:33the different standards
23:34of EU member states
23:35Sanchez
23:36Pedro Sanchez
23:37maybe also Italy
23:38but also France
23:38Germany
23:39and other member states
23:40on the Israeli
23:42American intervention
23:43against Iran
23:44it's entirely divergent
23:46and we saw this divergence
23:47also in the EU institutions
23:49so it's doomed to fail
23:50to have a forced unity
23:52of foreign policy
23:54in this way
23:54we need coordination
23:55and Greenland
23:56and the Ukraine cases
23:58show that the EU
23:59is already able
24:00within the current treaties
24:01to act
24:02if it's necessary
24:03because the EU
24:04rightly so
24:05defended Greenland
24:06I led a delegation
24:08of the fisheries committee
24:09last September
24:09to Greenland
24:10to also strengthen
24:11our ties
24:12with the fisheries sector
24:13there
24:13we have a huge
24:14fisheries agreement there
24:15and I really
24:16can only commend
24:18these cases
24:19as an example
24:20for the future
24:21so it's versus
24:22speaking with
24:23one voice
24:25versus a forced unity
24:27I don't know
24:28where this forced unity
24:29comes from
24:29the question is just
24:31if people like
24:32the two of us
24:33members of the
24:34European Parliament
24:34actually have any
24:35kind of say
24:36on these questions
24:37because in the current
24:38setup
24:38it's left to the
24:3927 governments
24:40we here adopt resolutions
24:42but quite honestly
24:43who cares
24:44but the question is
24:45if the European Parliament
24:47the directly elected
24:48representatives
24:49from all those
24:50citizens in Europe
24:51that send us here
24:52to the European Parliament
24:53whether this Parliament
24:54has a role
24:55in the foreign policy decisions
24:57in the diplomatic relations
24:59we got a say on trade
25:00so some elements are there
25:02but others are not
25:03and it makes more sense
25:04if you have all the tools
25:05in your hand
25:06von der Leyen
25:07can threaten
25:08on boycotts
25:09and sanctions
25:10but she doesn't have
25:12the other tools
25:13that Putin
25:14or Trump
25:14or she have in their hands
25:16and that makes her weaker
25:17well now it's time
25:18to move on
25:19to our fifth
25:19and final round
25:20where we continue
25:21our conversation
25:26now it's time
25:27for something different
25:28I'm gonna ask you
25:29a set of questions
25:30and you can answer
25:31only with a yes
25:33or no
25:34okay
25:34so let's start
25:36with a simple one
25:36is Orbán's defeat
25:37a turning point
25:38for the EU
25:39Sander
25:39I think very much
25:41so in the sense
25:42that we can now
25:43provide the Ukraine
25:44with a yes
25:44okay
25:45yes
25:46yes
25:46good
25:47will Magia be
25:48an undisputed ally
25:50of Brussels
25:51no
25:51no
25:52no
25:53no
25:53no
25:54you guys agree
25:55on something here
25:56is unanimity
25:57making the EU weak
25:59on the world stage
26:00yes
26:01absolutely not
26:02would removing veto power
26:04make the EU
26:05more democratic
26:06absolutely not
26:08yes
26:09and is the future
26:11of the EU federal
26:12no
26:13it's confederal
26:14it is
26:15is the EU
26:16a credible actor
26:17on the world stage
26:18these days
26:19yes
26:21halfway
26:22but
26:22rather yes
26:24okay
26:24does Europe
26:25need a single
26:26foreign policy
26:27voice
26:28no
26:29yes
26:30is this the moment
26:31for radical EU reform
26:33yes
26:34no
26:35let's keep it away
26:38that's a good one
26:39are national governments
26:40the problem
26:41in EU decision making
26:42when you sit in a parliament
26:44that's
26:45that's how it looks like
26:46absolutely not
26:47that national governments
26:48have the most direct
26:49mandate
26:50in the European Council
26:52no
26:53we're elected
26:54on EU election programs
26:55national governments
26:56are national elections
26:57so they have no direct mandate
26:59for EU affairs
27:00our national elections
27:01have the highest turnout
27:02of voters
27:03the most direct
27:04media attention
27:05and I think
27:06in the principle
27:06of subsidiarity
27:07enshrined in the treaties
27:08we need to look upon
27:09these national parliaments
27:10as the prime expression
27:12of the national will
27:13fascinating
27:14conversation here
27:15for a yes or no question
27:16that final answer
27:17brings us to the end
27:18of this edition
27:19of the ring
27:20thanks again to Daniel
27:21Freund and Sander Smit
27:22for a lively conversation
27:24here from the European
27:25Parliament
27:25thanks to our audience
27:27at home
27:27if you like
27:28you can continue
27:29the conversation
27:30by sending us
27:31your comments
27:32to the ring
27:33at euronews.com
27:34that's it for today
27:36I'm Stefan Grobe
27:37take care
27:37and see you soon
27:39here on Euronews
27:51I'm Stefan Grobe
27:51and I'll see you soon
27:52here on Euronews
27:52I'm Stefan Grobe
27:52and I'll see you soon
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