00:00Today, the European aviation market is $66 billion.
00:04It's $20.50.
00:05There will be zero-neutral aviation.
00:08We are like the disruptors of the industry.
00:10We have the best in the world.
00:17Hello and welcome to The Big Question,
00:20the series from Euronews where we dive deep into the world of business.
00:25And today, I'm joined by the CEO of EcoCeres, Matti Livonnen.
00:31It's a pleasure to have you with us on the show.
00:34Thank you very much for joining us.
00:36Great to be here.
00:37First of all, Matti, let's start with the basics.
00:39Can you explain to us exactly what EcoCeres does?
00:43So we are producing renewable fuels, sustainable aviation fuel,
00:47renewable diesel for road transport,
00:50and the chemical industry from sustainable feedstock.
00:53and what we are very proud because we have developed the whole technology.
00:58So even we produce, we are also the technology company.
01:01In simple terms then for our audience, Matti,
01:03how do you turn waste into sustainable aviation fuel?
01:07We are turning 100% waste, non-edible waste,
01:11to renewable diesel and sustainable aviation fuel.
01:14So the process is the same as in the fossil side,
01:17but instead of fossil fuel,
01:20so we are using bio residuals like a waste oil,
01:24like a used cooking oil,
01:26like animal fat, like a fish fat.
01:29So we develop ourselves, you know, the catalyst
01:32who is taking impurities out.
01:34We have a pre-treatment because it's not the one feedstock.
01:37There is a lot of different feedstock,
01:39very dirty feedstock.
01:41So we have this pre-treatment technology.
01:43All those things together make us very special.
01:47Also, you have a yield,
01:48how much you could produce out of those waste SAF.
01:52And today we have,
01:53I should say that we have the best in the world.
01:55It's 85% yield.
01:57You take the used cooking oil,
01:58you get 85% sustainable aviation fuel out there.
02:01This is really the technology behind.
02:04It's called like a HIFA technology.
02:06So we are like a disruptor of the industry,
02:08what's coming to technology and then to outcome.
02:17If we compare it,
02:19what you're doing to traditional jet fuel at the moment,
02:22can you give us some examples of how big is the emission saving?
02:25If you take the normal jet fuel, that's a carbon.
02:28You release the carbon when you're producing
02:30and you burn it that in the engine.
02:31In our case,
02:33so we are taking the biomass,
02:34that it's there.
02:36So it will save like up to 90% of greenhouse gas emission.
02:40And that's a big thing, 90%.
02:43So compared to normal jet fuel,
02:45it's burning and releasing, you know,
02:47the carbon to the emission.
02:48And at the moment, Matti,
02:49what's your current production capacity?
02:52Today we are producing like 770,000 tonnes per year.
02:56It's quite significant.
02:58I think that we are second biggest in the world today.
03:00But we are very young company also.
03:02So we call us as a startup.
03:05But if you think about the one flight from London to New York,
03:09there is the emissions are like the 60 tonnes.
03:13So if you multiply that,
03:15so it's a tens of a thousand flight
03:16if you have a 10%, 20% of renewable fuels.
03:20And the cost, Matti,
03:22how does it compare to traditional jet fuel today?
03:25Obviously, the costs are higher
03:27because we are not using crude oil.
03:30We are using the waste oils,
03:31and the waste are much, much more expensive.
03:33Before this crisis,
03:35crude oil was 60.
03:36Now it's over 100.
03:38Yes.
03:38It means that also the jet fuel was like $750,
03:42and now it's $1,500.
03:45So it's a double.
03:46The renewable fuels,
03:49like the system of aviation fuel,
03:51it has increased from this same period like 30%.
03:55So much less.
03:56When it was earlier,
03:57probably 2.53 times more expensive.
04:01Now it's 1.5 times more expensive.
04:03And to passengers,
04:04when more airlines adopt this,
04:07what would be passed down then to consumers
04:10on the cost of the tickets and the airfares?
04:12Would it be substantially different?
04:14I think that it's not so huge.
04:16So if you think about, you know,
04:18flying from Hong Kong to London,
04:20there is like a 10% SAF.
04:23I think that the ticket cost is $50 higher.
04:27And if you think, but $50,
04:28is that much or not?
04:30It's probably not.
04:31And I think that we should all,
04:33as an individual,
04:35we should take the responsibility also for that.
04:37Because if I ask airlines,
04:39what is your biggest risk?
04:41They all say that it's climate change.
04:43It's not today.
04:45But when there is more hazardous weather and other,
04:49so people are not traveling.
04:51So I think that it's a common call
04:53that we should decarbonize the aviation,
04:55but also the other transport.
04:57So it's really the climate change question.
04:59But also it's the security of supply.
05:03Now we see that.
05:04And given at the moment geopolitical uncertainty,
05:07volatility, particularly in the oil markets,
05:10have you seen increased interest in your company
05:14and the sustainable aviation fuel
05:16as a result of what's happening?
05:17We have seen that there is an interest,
05:21of course,
05:22and it's mandated
05:23and we are so-called fully booked.
05:26We have seen also the interest of renewable diesel,
05:30for example, in Australia,
05:32because Australia is very dependent on Middle Eastern supplies.
05:35So very strong interest of our renewable diesel,
05:39for example, from Australia.
05:41And you're a Hong Kong-based company, Matti.
05:44Are you looking to expand more into Europe?
05:46Europe is important for us,
05:48not only because there is a mandate,
05:50but there is also the mindset of people
05:52and the EU and the countries
05:55that we need to decarbonize.
05:57And I think that it will be
05:58the competitive edge to Europeans.
06:02And we are looking actively,
06:04so could we have, you know,
06:06the production facilities in the Europe?
06:07But as you know,
06:09there are things that European unions
06:11should also think about.
06:12how you could speed up, you know,
06:14the permitting things and other.
06:16And it's not only our industry,
06:17it's all industries,
06:18what I'm worried about.
06:19Yes, permitting is certainly one of those challenges.
06:23And finally, Matti,
06:24what does aviation contribute to the EU economy
06:28and how important is it to protect that
06:31while making it more sustainable?
06:332025, the total addressable market
06:37was for these two products,
06:38sustainable aviation fuel
06:40and the Rimbal diesel
06:41was like 35 billion US dollar.
06:442030, it will be 107 billion.
06:47So growth per year is huge.
06:50That's why we are there,
06:51because we have a good technology.
06:53We will help United Airlines
06:55to decarbonize,
06:56because IATA also,
06:58their target is 2050.
07:00There will be zero-neutral aviation.
07:02aviation.
07:03Today, European aviation market
07:05is like 56 billion US dollar.
07:082030, it's over 100 billion.
07:10So there's a huge growth also.
07:11The growth coming
07:12that there's more passenger,
07:13not only in Europe,
07:14from Europe to somewhere.
07:16And I think that airlines
07:17should also understand that,
07:18as I mentioned,
07:19climate change is important.
07:21People are very conscious today
07:22how they spend their money.
07:24Do they feel that it's good
07:26for the climate?
07:27And of course,
07:28for the economy.
07:29Together, we can work
07:30to make it more cleaner,
07:33decarbonize,
07:33and that's what EcoShare is doing.
07:35Working together with the airlines,
07:37with the EU,
07:38with other countries,
07:40to make it more affordable
07:41and the best way
07:42to decarbonize.
07:43Matti, thank you very much
07:45for sharing your insights
07:46and joining us on the show.
07:47It's been an absolute pleasure.
07:49Thank you.
07:49Thank you very much.
07:50Thank you very much.
07:52Thank you.
07:55Thank you.
07:56Thank you.
07:56Thank you.
07:57Thank you.
07:57Thank you.
07:58Thank you.
07:59Thank you.
07:59Thank you.
08:00Thank you.
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