00:07My guest today on 12 Minutes With is Arsenio Dominguez.
00:11He is the Secretary General of the International Maritime Organization,
00:16which is the UN agency responsible for shipping, safety and security.
00:21Sir, thank you so much for joining us.
00:23Thank you.
00:24I'd like to start, obviously, with the situation in the Strait of Hormuz.
00:27We've heard now from President Trump saying that the U.S. has, according to him,
00:32effectively blockaded maritime access to Iranian ports.
00:36Tehran says this is a piracy.
00:39How would you describe it?
00:41Right now, the situation in the Strait of Hormuz continues to be critical.
00:45In particular, I like the 20,000 safe bettors,
00:49innocent people that are still trapped in the Persian Gulf,
00:53around 2,000 vessels that are not able to transit the Strait of Hormuz.
00:57And, of course, this also has an impact on the mental health, the fatigue,
01:02and the fact that they need supplies for them to be safely on board,
01:08from food, water, and the fuels for the ships.
01:11Now, when it comes to the blockade,
01:13there's no international law agreement that allows any country
01:18to actually prohibit the freedom of navigation on straits
01:24used for international navigation.
01:27So, in this case, we here at IMO continues to uphold that principle
01:32and to call for de-escalation of the ships to resume operations
01:36through the Strait of Hormuz, as we were used to before the conflict.
01:40So, you say that this is against international rules.
01:44President Trump says, however, that this could help restore the flow of shipping.
01:50Can it do so, or is it simply worsening an already dire situation?
01:54The reality is that from the moment that this conflict started,
01:59we saw that the 130 ships that normally would transit a Strait of Hormuz
02:05came down to zero, or almost just a handful of them.
02:09And what happened afterwards was that the Islamic Republic of Iran
02:14introduced a different corridor to the one that has been in operations
02:18and adopted by IMO back in 1968, which, of course,
02:23is not recognized by this organization.
02:27And this is the situation that we have right now,
02:30that because there's no confirmation that the corridor that was established
02:35by IMO is safe to transit right now,
02:37we also don't have any information on the safety and security
02:41of the other corridor that has been introduced by Iran.
02:44The reality is that what we need for this to de-escalate
02:48and from all parties to respect the measures that have been adopted
02:52by IMO and the freedom of navigation.
02:54But if both sides are flouting these rules,
02:58what can you do or what can the international community do
03:02to get back to the pre-conflict status quo?
03:05What needs to happen now?
03:07Is there some kind of mechanism that can be put in place
03:09to restore the freedom of navigation in the Strait?
03:12The first answer is simple, which is basically to de-escalate
03:16and to bring this conflict to an end.
03:18In parallel, in following the decision of the IMO Council
03:23a couple of weeks ago, we already have in place
03:26an evacuation framework that would allow us,
03:29as soon as it is free for the ships to transit the Strait of Hormuz,
03:33to reinitiate all these mechanisms, all these transit.
03:38We have since 1968 a traffic separation scheme.
03:41that is coordinated between Oman and Iran,
03:45and this is established in accordance with international law,
03:47is ready to resume operations.
03:49We are working with both countries,
03:52but we need security in the region for the ships,
03:56and particularly the crew, not to be at risk
03:58when they resume operations.
04:00You say you're working with both countries.
04:02Can I ask you what your contacts with both Washington
04:05and Tehran alike, are you getting any sort of receptive
04:10or indications that they understand the gravity of the situation
04:14and are willing to de-escalate?
04:15This is a dialogue, and of course,
04:17I keep all the conversations within the remit of IMO.
04:21I have shared with them all the plans that we have developed
04:25in an operational and technical manner
04:28for as soon as the conflict de-escalates
04:30for us to start resuming the transit
04:33in accordance to the mechanisms adopted by IMO.
04:36The countries are a party to the organization,
04:38and they know what the rules of the game are
04:41in accordance to our mechanisms.
04:44I also engage with all the countries in the region
04:47and countries beyond the region,
04:48because let's face it,
04:50it's not just one or two countries
04:52that are being affected by these countries,
04:54by this conflict.
04:55It's every single country around the world
04:58that actually is dealing with negative impacts.
05:00And on that, there is a global coalition meeting tomorrow
05:02led by Paris and London.
05:05They seem to be saying that they're willing
05:07to sort of intervene, to help on restoring
05:09the freedom of navigation after the conflict has ended.
05:14Do you welcome those efforts?
05:16What do you expect from this coalition?
05:19Absolutely.
05:20This is multilateralism in the way that we need it.
05:24It's bringing countries together to, again,
05:26reiterate the principles of the freedom of navigation,
05:29that shipping should not be used as collateral
05:32in these geopolitical instances,
05:34and that we need to secure our seafarers in particular.
05:38I'm very grateful to the leadership of the countries
05:41of France and the United Kingdom.
05:43And I am engaging with them because we are providing
05:47the expertise from all the work
05:49that the organization has put in place.
05:51And of course, they will be able to provide
05:53that assistance to guarantee that the strait
05:56is safe for the ships to transit
05:58as soon as the conflict is over.
06:00You say that shipping should not be used
06:03as collateral in geopolitical conflicts.
06:05But if I may, sir, it is at the moment.
06:09We're seeing Trump not only threatening
06:11freedom of navigation in the strait of Hormut,
06:13Iran doing the same,
06:14but the US president has also made open threats
06:17on freedom of navigation through the Panama Canal,
06:21for example, and other critical waterways.
06:24How difficult is it for you as an organization
06:27to defend these rules in this context?
06:30I work very closely with all the member states of IMO.
06:34And of course, here,
06:35the message for the organization would not change.
06:38We uphold the international rule of law,
06:40in particular, the string of navigations.
06:42Now, this is not the first time.
06:44Regrettably, in recent years,
06:46since the conflicts in the Black Sea
06:48and the Red Sea down the strait of Hormut,
06:51shipping continues to be used as leverage
06:53for this geopolitical conflict.
06:54But it is important for everyone in the planet
06:57to recognize that the moment that shipping gets affected,
07:02that's going to have a negative impact
07:05on everybody else,
07:07on the way that we live our daily lives.
07:09Because shipping, it is necessary for all of us
07:13to provide and distribute in large quantities
07:17the goods, the cargoes,
07:20that are essential for our daily living.
07:21Is there a risk also that in this war,
07:25we know that there's a fragile ceasefire in place right now,
07:28but is there a risk that it can now shift
07:30to more of an economic war of blockades
07:34that really plays out in the strait
07:37and shift into more of a kind of economic maritime war?
07:40Is that something you fear?
07:41What I look for is that in the rights forum,
07:45the root causes of this conflict can be addressed.
07:48But it's beyond IMO.
07:50From our part,
07:51we will continue to uphold all the principles
07:53in accordance to international law.
07:55But beyond that,
07:56make sure that our technical rules
07:59and operational aspects of shipping
08:01continue to demonstrate
08:03that we can actually be as resilient
08:06as it's always been,
08:08continue to provide,
08:09adapt to this conflict,
08:10and that the more that we actually get engaged
08:14and dragged into,
08:15the more that some communities,
08:17innocent communities will be affected.
08:19I want to ask you a little bit
08:20about the economic repercussions.
08:21You mentioned earlier
08:22that only a handful of vessels
08:25have been able to pass
08:26compared to the pre-conflict situation.
08:28Can you tell us a little bit
08:30about the scenario today
08:31and also about how,
08:33if this persists, continues,
08:36what will be the repercussions
08:38on the economy?
08:41We already see
08:42the increase in global prices,
08:45particularly when it comes to oil.
08:47Now, the longer that this continues,
08:50the more that we will feel
08:51the negative impacts
08:52in the global economy.
08:54Because shipping is resilient
08:55and we can find different routes
08:58to operate and navigate.
09:00But what we will not be able to do
09:02is to provide the 20% of the fuel oil
09:05that emanates from this region,
09:0819% of natural liquefied gas,
09:1313% of fertilizers and chemicals
09:16required for agriculture,
09:189% of automobiles
09:21that also are actually coming
09:23from this part of the world.
09:25That is an impact
09:26that we will not be able to address
09:28because you need shipping
09:30to actually carry those cargoes in bulk.
09:33And this is why
09:35the sooner that this conflict
09:37comes to an end,
09:38the quicker that step-by-step
09:40shipping will resume normal operations
09:43and the economy will start easing
09:45on all this negative pressure.
09:47We also know,
09:48and to close,
09:49I want to ask you about
09:50how this has also resulted
09:53in a soaring fright rate,
09:56also soaring insurance premiums.
09:59Does this risk then
10:01having a knock-on effect
10:02that will also affect consumers
10:04in terms of pricing?
10:05Definitely.
10:06The moment that you affect
10:08freight in the operations of ships,
10:11the moment that that becomes
10:13more expensive
10:13or is more restrictive
10:15because not all the goods
10:16can actually be provided,
10:18then it's a knock-off effect
10:20into the global economy.
10:21And that will be passed down
10:22to consumers.
10:23And in terms then
10:24of the shipping companies,
10:25is this a golden opportunity
10:26for them?
10:27Will they end up profiting?
10:28Not necessarily.
10:30And I don't think
10:30that it's appropriate
10:31to actually look at it
10:32in that perspective
10:33because this is not something
10:34that the shipping companies
10:35are calling for.
10:36They're also being affected
10:37because, of course,
10:38there is an increase
10:40on the operational costs
10:41of the ships.
10:43Fuel goes up,
10:45that is the main cost
10:46of the operations of the ships.
10:48Immediately,
10:49everything else will go up.
10:51How hopeful are you to close
10:53that we can go back
10:54to the pre-conflict status quo,
10:56as I mentioned earlier?
10:57Is that possible?
10:59Or do you think
10:59that this conflict
11:00has already disrupted
11:03that status quo
11:03and that a return
11:05will not be possible?
11:06I'm optimistic,
11:07of course,
11:08that we're actually
11:09going to resume
11:10and go back
11:11to the days
11:12where we were
11:12before the conflict.
11:14And I continue
11:15to call on
11:16the relevant parties
11:18to, of course,
11:19bring those dialogues
11:20that will address
11:21the root causes.
11:21The reason why
11:22I am optimistic
11:24is because
11:25we are all
11:26acknowledging
11:27and recognizing
11:27and living
11:28through the negative impacts
11:29from this conflict.
11:31And this
11:32is one of the key messages
11:33that we all need
11:34to work together
11:35to demonstrate
11:36that the moment
11:38that these kind
11:39of situations
11:40takes place
11:40like shipping
11:41be used as collateral,
11:43we're all going to have
11:44the negative effects.
11:45So it is our voices
11:46that are also going
11:47to make us
11:47be positive
11:48and allow
11:49that these kind
11:50of situations
11:50don't repeat again.
11:52Okay, Secretary General,
11:53thank you so much
11:54for your time.
11:54Thank you.
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