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00:00Hello and welcome to Ear to the Ground.
00:02This week on the programme, Dara will be finding out
00:05about a community initiative to bring hot meals
00:07to smaller schools.
00:09We have 2,377 primary school students
00:13that we're feeding here today.
00:14Out of this kitchen.
00:15Out of this kitchen.
00:16Ella will be spending the day with a vet
00:18using acupuncture to treat some of her patients.
00:21I just loved it and actually realised it does work.
00:26And it was a revelation.
00:28And I will be finding out how future changes to regulations
00:31might impact some dairy farms more than others.
00:34If we lost the derogation, would we be able to survive?
00:37You know, it so much depends on what sacrifices you'd be willing to make.
00:58Finding a way to dairy farm profitably but in line with EU regulations
01:05around water quality can be a challenge.
01:07And with further restrictions in the years ahead likely,
01:11some argue that the future of the small farm is under threat.
01:15Almost half of all Irish dairy farms operate under a special derogation
01:20from the EU, which allows them to keep more cows per hectare
01:23than is normally permitted.
01:26The derogation was first put in place 20 years ago
01:29to help farms maximise production and keep them viable.
01:33But to keep more cows, you have to grow more grass.
01:37And to do that, these farmers are allowed to exceed the current limit
01:40of 170 kilograms of organic nitrogen that they can spread on their land.
01:46It's become a very controversial issue because of the increased risk
01:51it poses to water quality from pollution.
01:55Alan and Cheryl Poole farm under this derogation.
02:00They keep 72 cows on 100 acres near Cranford,
02:04just outside Gorey in County Wexford.
02:07Tell me, how important is the derogation to you and this farm here?
02:11Well, sure, it's the same for everyone.
02:13If you lose a derogation, it's a significant percentage of your income.
02:17We have done the numbers and if we were back to 170,
02:21it would be 60 cows that we'd be able to stock here.
02:24You know, kind of, you say, if we lost the derogation,
02:26would we be able to survive?
02:28You know, it's so much depends on what sacrifices you'd be willing to make.
02:32Last December, Ireland was granted a three-year extension to the derogation,
02:37leaving it the only country in the EU availing of it.
02:40Many believe that this could be the final reprieve.
02:44With just 72 cows on 100 acres of land,
02:48the Poole farm is below the average size here of 99 cows across 119 acres.
02:54It leaves them more vulnerable than others.
02:57You don't have the sort of backup of a great big operation to maybe cushion it a little bit.
03:03Alan and Cheryl farm here with their three children, Daniel, Isabel and Jacob.
03:09The couple weren't always destined for this life.
03:12They met while they were both studying science at University College Galway.
03:16We travelled after our undergrads and came back to do PhDs,
03:20and mine is in research chemistry and Alan's conservation zoology.
03:24How did you come to running and managing this dairy farm?
03:28Yeah, back 19 years ago last Christmas, my brother was here farming,
03:32but when he was 35 he had to have his hip replaced,
03:35and he decided that he wasn't going to keep farming.
03:37So mum and dad said to Cheryl and I did we want to move home,
03:40and we jumped at the opportunity,
03:42and instead of being in research we came back and started milking cows.
03:46Alan is the 13th generation of his family to farm this land.
03:51When EU milk quotas were removed in 2015,
03:55dairy farming here saw an unprecedented expansion.
03:58While Alan and Cheryl did increase their cow numbers,
04:02they didn't invest in any more land.
04:04We were never planning to go big and try and rent land or anything like that.
04:09That was never on our radar.
04:11We were happy with the 100 acres we have
04:13and trying to make that work as well as we can.
04:16A large part of their decision to maintain what would now be considered
04:20a relatively small farm enterprise was driven by concerns
04:24about the impact of more intensive dairy farming on the environment.
04:28I remember people saying,
04:30take out your hedgerows, make it all straightforward,
04:32and we were kind of going, what? No.
04:35We can't, that's not the plan at all.
04:38We can't expand at the expense of the environment.
04:41You know, we could still farm really well,
04:43but at the same time give space for nature to exist
04:46and, you know, bring the two hand in hand.
04:48Last year, the Environmental Protection Agency reported
04:51that excess nutrients from agriculture continue to be one of the biggest challenges to water quality.
04:58As part of the derogation agreement, farmers must implement strict environmental measures.
05:04The Pulos live close to the River Ban, a tributary of the Slaney.
05:09They have gone beyond the required measures
05:12and now nearly a quarter of their land is given over to nature.
05:16What are we looking at out here?
05:18This is something we just did this summer.
05:19It's basically a nature-based solution,
05:22which actually marries together water quality plus creating habitat.
05:26So we're taking water that's come off lanes, house lanes, farm lanes,
05:31and we're letting it go through two sediment tanks.
05:34Yeah.
05:35So it purifies the water by letting the sediment and everything fall out of it,
05:38and it follows this path, this swale, down to the pond.
05:41It's important to us to maintain the water quality on the farm,
05:45but also, like, there's so many things you'd be worrying about,
05:47about climate and about biodiversity.
05:49This is something that we could actually see that we could do to help improve things.
05:53We would see ourselves as environmentalists who make the money from farming.
05:56Like, the environment is so important to us to protect.
05:59The environment can't suffer as a result of us making an income.
06:04Since last year, with funding from Wexford County Council,
06:07Cheryl has been visiting schools in the local area
06:10to give talks on water quality and biodiversity.
06:14Does anyone know where there's a river in Gorey?
06:17Today's talk is with six class pupils in Gorey Central School.
06:21And this is one of the stoneflies.
06:23So that's a really high quality water indicator.
06:26So that's what we want to be able to see in the binogue as well.
06:29The decision of the EU to approve the extension of the derogation
06:33until the end of 2028 was loudly welcomed by farming organisations.
06:38They cited a recent Chagas report, which concluded that affected farmers
06:42could be facing a potential cut of 39% in their income if the derogation is removed.
06:49But Environmental Group and Tashka said it was a shocking decision
06:54and a bad day for Irish water bodies and for everyone who relies on clean quality water in Ireland.
07:01Can you understand the opposition towards granting the derogation again?
07:05I don't think there's anyone in the countryside who isn't concerned about water quality.
07:09Farmers want good water quality as well.
07:11It's so important that we protect the water quality and generate an income.
07:15It can't be one or the other.
07:17For the likes of us as a family farm, it would be very hard to see many of us staying in the business
07:24or into the, as in our case, the 14th generation,
07:28because it's very hard to wish that on your children to have a very insecure future.
07:37Are you confident that farmers are going to do what needs to be done over the next three years
07:42in order to save the derogation again?
07:45It's so fundamental to your farming future.
07:48Like, my income depends on derogation.
07:50I need to do everything I possibly can to protect that.
07:53Like, it starts now.
07:54Not in, you know, autumn 2027 that we start going panicking.
07:59Like, we start now and we do the right things and we do them early
08:02and, you know, work to good water quality.
08:08That's it for part one.
08:09Coming up after the break, Dara will be helping out delivering school lunches in Cork.
08:14Does everyone eat up everything?
08:16They do, in fairness.
08:17No picky eaters here at all.
08:18Oh, no.
08:19Oh, they're the best children, aren't they?
08:22And a vet was an alternative way of treating animals.
08:25The hot school meals programme funded by the Department of Social Protection
08:37was originally set up to service schools with pupils from disadvantaged areas.
08:42Last year, the scheme was rolled out nationally to make every primary school in the country eligible.
08:48But 30% have not yet applied.
08:52Some schools in remote areas with small pupil numbers have found it difficult to find a commercial provider.
08:58In North Cork, Duhallo Community Food Services is a group filling that gap in their area.
09:04They source the majority of their produce from local suppliers, like Tim McCarthy's butchers in Canturk,
09:11who in turn source their meat from farmers in the area.
09:15Is it only beef that you supply to the schools?
09:18No, we supply them also with low-salt bacon.
09:21There'll be chicken from time to time, there'll be pork, outdoor where possible.
09:25I can see Jack here is very busy cutting off a lot of the fat off the meat.
09:29Kids are picky.
09:30Yeah.
09:31They'll tell you exactly what they think.
09:32My children in Canturk, my nieces and nephews are on it too.
09:35So there's feedback coming on a regular basis.
09:38It must be right.
09:40Duhallo Community Food Services is a non-profit organisation.
09:45For two years they've been providing fresh meals prepared daily to schools in their area.
09:50Linda O'Connor is manager here.
09:53We are busy, busy, busy.
09:55So we have 2,377 primary school students that we're feeding here today.
10:00Out of this kitchen?
10:01Out of this kitchen.
10:02And there's quite a bit of time pressure here because, you know, the school breaks are at very, very set times.
10:09Yeah, very, very set times.
10:10You've no wriggle room?
10:11No, everything needs to be ready at a certain time.
10:14Everything needs to leave the kitchen at a certain time.
10:16Each week, pupils and their parents receive a menu and select from six daily options.
10:22That information determines the ingredients ordered for the kitchen.
10:26The government give you guidelines for the nutritional content in the meals.
10:30So, like, it has to be X amount of protein, X amount of carbohydrates.
10:3480 grams of protein, 128 grams of carb, and there's two servings of veg, which is 160 grams.
10:41This year the government will pay nearly 286 million euro towards school meals.
10:48But for the hot meal scheme, that breaks down to just 3 euro 20 cents per meal.
10:54You made that work?
10:55It's very hard.
10:56It's hard to keep the quality.
10:58It's hard to keep the freshness, the rising cost of raw materials.
11:02I mean, 3.20, it's less than the price of a cup of coffee.
11:05You're using your staff to pay, your diesel expenses, your rents to run.
11:09Overseeing the cooking is head chef Matt Petrowski.
11:12We have the tomato ragu.
11:14Tomato ragu.
11:15With a lot of the veg.
11:16Lovely.
11:17We blended the veg.
11:18The consistency of the sauce is from the veg.
11:20OK.
11:21What veg is in there?
11:22Here is some broccoli, turnip, carrot, a little bit of onion, cream and cheese.
11:28Dohalo Community Food Services is part of a larger rural development company, IRD Dohalo.
11:35Maura Walsh is CEO.
11:37What do you think of the Hot School Meals programme?
11:40Here it has a very good impact.
11:42I think we've had a lot of very positive feedback.
11:44I know nationally there is bad press sometimes and it kind of grates a bit with what we're doing.
11:50I do think there's potential for other areas to do what we're doing.
11:53There are many of our colleagues, local development companies around the country that could do this.
11:58Does your Hot Meals programme make money for your organisation?
12:02Not at the moment because first of all we have a big input which is scale up our own equipment.
12:08You know that was an initial outlay.
12:10I think it would be difficult.
12:12The amount of money is small and the schools are small.
12:14To start at a scale would be hard.
12:17Nationally 380,000 children receive a daily lunch through the scheme.
12:23For some it's a hot meal they might not otherwise have.
12:26However the scheme does have its critics.
12:29Ruth Hegarty is director of think tank Food Policy Ireland.
12:34As a policy it's a really positive thing in principle.
12:38What I would love to see is more models like Duhallo.
12:43But unfortunately the way that we have rolled it out is a huge missed opportunity and even is having negative impacts.
12:49What we have here in Ireland is currently a scheme that is providing food really that's often a very low nutritional value.
12:58We're generating huge amounts of waste through the scheme, both packaging and food waste.
13:03And unfortunately we haven't availed of the opportunity through this scheme to support local food systems.
13:08You know so to channel this money back to Irish farms.
13:11The scheme's nutritional standards were originally established by key national dietary organisations.
13:18A spokesperson for the Department of Social Protection told Ear to the Ground that food that is high in saturated fat, sugar and salt was removed from school menus in September 2025.
13:30And that a review of the scheme's nutritional standards is currently being undertaken.
13:36They're always so pleasant and so happy to see you arriving.
13:39Duhallo supplies hot meals to 25 primary schools in their locality.
13:44I joined Jackie O'Connell on her delivery route.
13:47Our first stop was Kilcorny National School with just 20 pupils on the roll book.
13:53Morning everybody.
13:54Morning.
13:55Roisin Roach is the principal.
13:58All right, there you go.
13:59Does everyone eat up everything?
14:01They do, in fairness.
14:02No picky eaters here at all?
14:04Oh no, not at all.
14:05Oh, they're the best children aren't they?
14:07All the meals are served in compostable cartons, which the children take home.
14:12While they tucked into their hot lunches, we set off for Lyre National School, a further 10 minutes away.
14:19Principal Noreen Duggan gave me a hand distributing the meals.
14:24There's quite a lot of variety for the children, the meals are nutritious.
14:27There's choice.
14:28We have children of different faiths, so they do halal food.
14:32They also do gluten free options.
14:34There's also planar options for any of our pupils who have sensory issues and may like to eat planar foods.
14:42Under the current scheme, the responsibility for hiring food providers, oversight of waste management and prioritising local sourcing is the responsibility of individual schools.
14:53When Lyre National School put the contract up for tender, only Duhallo was able to make it viable.
15:00Being a small rural school with 51 children, some of the private providers would not have found it cost effective to supply our school with school meals.
15:09The funding is only 320 per meal, so it's quite understandable how some of them would have found it difficult to meet their costs.
15:16Currently, there are guidelines advising sustainable sourcing of local produce, but no incentive within the scheme to do so.
15:24I think what we could look at is we could potentially provide top up funding where there is organic or localised sourcing.
15:33We could be using this public funding every year and channeling it into Irish farms and boosting organic production.
15:40And I think that if we took more localised approaches to school food provision, we could do that quite easily.
15:53It is a brisk morning in Balbrigan in North County Dublin, and I'm here to meet vet Jackie O'Brien.
16:00Good morning, Jackie.
16:01Oh, good morning, Anna.
16:02How are you?
16:03Lovely to meet you.
16:04Thank you so much for having us this morning.
16:06Where are we going to?
16:07So, we've got a fairly packed day today.
16:10First off, we're going to go to a racing trainer, Tommy McCourt.
16:14Jackie approaches her work a little differently than most vets.
16:18She qualified as a certified practitioner of veterinary acupuncture in 2018.
16:24In veterinary medicine, we treat symptoms and we treat things after the fact of them having occurred,
16:31whereas acupuncture would try and help prevent the injury occurring in the first place.
16:36Jackie specialises in horses.
16:39Her first call is to the yard of trainer Tom McCourt in Stamullum in Meath.
16:45He has a mare showing signs of soreness.
16:48What's her name, Tom?
16:49The Bog Bank.
16:50The Bog Bank.
16:51The Bog Bank.
16:52The Bog Bank.
16:53Oh, look at her.
16:55She's beautiful.
16:56She's beautiful.
16:57Yeah, how old is she?
16:58She'd be eight year old now, yeah.
17:00Hello.
17:01Hello.
17:02She's had a lot of racing, so you're going to get a little bit of wear and tear in joints.
17:06She probably gets a bit sore over her top line as well.
17:09That's where I feel acupuncture can work well on that, you know.
17:13Before Jackie can start working on Bog Bank, she needs to get a clearer picture of what is going on.
17:19I'd like to bring her just for a little walk, just to see how she's moving, first of all.
17:26We're looking to make sure that she's putting each leg down evenly.
17:30We're looking to see how she's moving through her body, that she's not favouring one leg over the other.
17:37Good girl.
17:38So we're going to ask her to bend slightly.
17:41It's okay, honey.
17:42You're okay.
17:43Usually they would bend their necks quite easily around.
17:46She's a little stiff moving it this way and that way.
17:49And then I'm just going to gently see how much movement she has on her spine.
17:53It's okay.
17:54I see that you're looking at her head the whole time.
17:56I'm trying to gauge her reaction.
17:59She's a little bit stiff.
18:01Good girl.
18:04Jackie then needs to identify the acupressure points
18:07where the mare is experiencing pain.
18:10There's about 360 acupoints on the body and I'm feeling them
18:14and I'm generating patterns from which points she's sore on, trigger points.
18:20It all bundles together and it points to where she may be sore
18:23and it points to where we need to treat her.
18:25And all of this is leading to you understanding where you need to put the needles into her body.
18:30Exactly.
18:31Exactly.
18:32Acupuncture is a traditional Chinese practice.
18:37It's now established worldwide as a complementary treatment for a range of conditions, including pain.
18:45Stimulating the acupoints acts on the central nervous system and can help relieve soreness and improve function.
18:53It was curiosity that led Jackie to undertake a two-year course in veterinary acupuncture.
19:02When you were in vet college back in the mid-90s, was alternative medicine, acupuncture, was that part of the course?
19:09Did anyone mention it?
19:10No, completely not a thing.
19:11And it was only after nearly 20 years of treating horses that I became interested in optimising health
19:20and looking for ways to help things before they became a problem.
19:26You must have had a very strong sense that this would work and that you would get clients who wanted acupuncture for their horses.
19:35It was actually the opposite. I had no strong sense that it would work.
19:38I went in very cynical and I went to do it and I just loved it and actually realised it does work.
19:47And it was a revelation.
19:49I think it helps conventional veterinary medicine as well because it gives you a better read of a horse.
19:55It just all helps with your diagnosis.
19:58Our next stop is a riding school in nearby Delvin.
20:05Jackie's here to see 34-year-old Festy, a pony she's been looking after nearly all of his long life.
20:13Good boy.
20:15He's in good nick, isn't he?
20:17He's in great nick for 34. With a back like that, he's brilliant.
20:21He's really quite stiff, bending his neck, but not too bad.
20:28So you're trying to get him to turn his neck there?
20:30I'm just asking him to turn, but the fact that he moves his leg there means that he's just not...
20:35The flexibility isn't there. Isn't there.
20:37Yeah.
20:38Essentially, what our acupuncture will be doing is trying to help the muscles, to help everything so that he breathes better and uses himself better.
20:48It won't on its own bring the muscle back, but what it will do is it'll bring blood supply to the area.
20:54It'll also release biochemicals, bringing more vitality back to this area.
21:02As well as performing acupuncture, since 2022, Jackie has been a certified veterinary chiropractor.
21:11Wow, look at her.
21:12Our next call is in Gormanston, and an 18-year-old mare called Penny, owned by Kate Hutchinson.
21:19Penny has an ongoing issue with lameness, for which she's been seen by a specialist.
21:24She's a little bit sore on her right front leg, but that is a very hard exercise to ask a horse to do.
21:31But Penny's also experiencing pain elsewhere.
21:35The chiropractic treatment starts with work on her joints in her spine, to help loosen any stiffness.
21:42So it's basically a movement, in a very specific manner, to just try and nudge that back, and to get a better, more appropriate movement.
21:52Are you new to these kind of alternative treatments? In the past, would you have used them?
21:59Yeah, I would think, you know, everything together.
22:02You know, I think for a diagnosis, it's great to have your x-rays and your scans.
22:07And then afterwards, when you know what you're dealing with, all these treatments and therapies are a wonderful addition to the toolkit.
22:13She's really sore in these muscles as well. Again, it's associated with the bringing of the front legs forward.
22:21See the way she blinks like that when I'm on it? It's just, she could, she does a long, there, see that?
22:28A long, deliberate blink, and she's kind of saying to me, stay there for a little while.
22:32So when you say about reading the horse and acupuncture and chiropractic helping you do that, that's a really good example.
22:40Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah.
22:41Jackie's alternative approach to treating horses has made her more attuned to them, as well as to the nature of the connection between the animals and their owners.
22:54I like their relationship with their animals and how empathetic the animals are towards their owners.
23:02It's amazing how much horses are doing for their owners all the time, and we don't even know.
23:11That's it for this week. Next week on Ear to the Ground.
23:19Dara sees firsthand how advances in technology continues to change how we farm.
23:24I firmly believe that in order for farming to progress, we need to adopt these technologies, we need to work with them.
23:33Ella will be meeting members of a community still coming to terms with a major fish kill on the Blackwater.
23:38And I'll be finding out who is top dog at the Trials of the Glen in Donegal.
23:44That's it. No good for tomorrow.
23:46I can't even blame the dog. I have to blame myself.
23:47Don't forget that this program will be repeated on Sunday at lunchtime after the farming weather.
23:54You can contact us on Facebook and follow us on X, and you can hear more farming stories on Countrywide this Saturday morning on RTE Radio 1.
24:03on RTE Radio 1.
24:04RTE Radio 1.
24:05RTE Radio 1, RTE Radio 1.
24:06.
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