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00:00Mississippi 2010 for a student named Carmen Sanders the coming Christmas
00:11holidays seem like a wonderful time of year Carmen was especially happy during
00:17the holidays and Christmas she loved spend time with her loved ones but soon
00:23holiday cheer quickly turns into holiday fear I tell people this all the time don't
00:31leave your doors unlocked especially during the Christmas time a senseless
00:36murder by a deranged killer and there is a large butcher's knife sticking through
00:47the comforter she was still warm and her eyes were wide open those eyes
00:52the last thing they saw was the person who killed her what kind of monster
00:57would attack this beautiful young woman she was screaming he killed my door I
01:02know he killed my baby he was a cold-blooded killer it really takes a
01:06special kind of evil to be able to do something like that
01:22hello I'm Nancy Grace this is the Christmas killings for many the first week of the new year is a peaceful time to relax
01:48Christmas is finally over Santa has come and gone the turkey served presents handed
01:55out in-laws heading home but for those who work during the holiday Christmas can
02:01arrive a little later on January 8 2010 22 year old Carmen Sanders of Richland
02:08Mississippi is on her way to celebrate a late Christmas with a friend
02:12Carmen was especially happy during the holidays and Christmas she loved spend time with her loved ones
02:23and on the way to meet her friend for dinner she stopped by her apartment because she wanted to get
02:29her friend's Christmas present that was still under the Christmas tree she wanted to just run in and
02:34grab it real quick but her friend would never get that gift three hours after Carmen races back to her
02:47apartment to grab her friend's Christmas gift a 9-1-1 call is placed
02:52original 9-1-1 sir I need to call you in my apartment where I know drive apartment 242 I don't know what's going on my
03:02precious and three is missing my girlfriend indeed in my beer room okay sir I'm checking off work please
03:08sir stay on the line with me please sir I've got him on the way
03:12it was approximately 11 15 to 11 30 p.m on the night of January 8th I went out to the scene there
03:27just because this was very unusual especially for Richland as I'm driving there Christmas decorations
03:32are still up on the roads as you're driving by and it's just an unusual time to be driving out to you
03:38the scene of the scene of a murder when the police department arrived to the apartment complex they
03:43noticed a man standing outside flagging them down the man pointed to apartment 242 he was blackmailed
03:51by the name of Terry according to Terry someone that's broken into his apartment and killed his girlfriend
03:58once the officers receive the information they go on high alert they draw out their duty weapon
04:06into the apartment they don't know if there's a killer still inside so they continue in the apartment and
04:17they notice that the Christmas tree was still up inside the apartment seemed very messy they noticed
04:25that clothes thrown all around they noticed that dishes were everywhere that your drawers were pulled out
04:36as the officers entered the bedroom they saw something that was very grisly they saw a lady
04:43wrapped on a blanket with a knife impaled through the blanket to a chest the only thing that stopped the
04:51knife from going completely through the floor was the concrete floor itself so whoever stabbed this person
04:58did it with a lot of force she had multiple stab wounds through her being stabbed is one of the worst ways
05:07to die the person is up close and personal to you the officers happened to locate another knife a steak knife
05:15with the tip broken off the officer checked her vitals and she was dead but she was still warm to
05:26the touch that told me that she had not been dead too long she was a young African American girl the
05:34first thing I noticed was her eyes were open it occurred to me that those eyes the last thing they saw
05:40was the person who killed her the victim's clothes were slightly loose that tells me that someone tried
05:47to sexually assault her the officer noticed the killer uses dishwashing liquid to literally try and
05:54clean away evidence some criminals know that dishwashing detergent things of that nature it'll make sure
06:01that it's almost impossible to get fingerprints off of anything it can affect the DNA on it as well this
06:07tells me that this person has either been arrested before and don't want their prints lifted and that
06:12they're probably seasoned criminal the responding officer backed out secured the scene waited for the crime scene
06:20unit to arrive CSU they arrived process the scene the victim ID'd as Carmen Sanders a bright and
06:33beautiful young woman who's been working hard for a future that now will never come Carmen was 22 years old
06:41and she was a very outgoing and ambitious and friendly individual she always had a big smile on her face she was
06:52studying to be a lab technician at Mississippi State University she was working two jobs part-time to pay for her
07:01school and her rent and she was trying to do it all by herself Carmen's been living with her boyfriend
07:07Terry who makes that 911 call after he gets home from work 11 p.m. Terry was working two jobs he was working as a
07:17substitute teacher at the Jackson Public Schools and then the evening he would work at a restaurant as a line cook in the beginning of Carmen and Terry's relationship you know he was charming she really
07:30wanted to be with him
07:36the officers realized that Carmen's car is in the parking lot they noticed that her purse was on the
07:43passenger seat with her cell phone inside so that told them that she wasn't planning on being in the
07:48apartment very long Terry's mother arrives at the apartment complex officers accompany both of them to the
07:56Ridgeland police department Carmen Sanders parents arrive at the police station as well I went to talk to
08:04Carmen's mom I let her know that yes she had passed and she screamed out and uh the most awful screen and she fell to the
08:16floor and the father of Carmen he started grabbing his chest and so I asked our dispatcher to call for medical assistance
08:33this is very hard to see a mother and father
08:39in this position I can still to this day hear the halls filling up with this lady screaming about her baby
08:50it's a terrible and heart-wrenching moment for a family when they realize they've lost their child forever that they will never have another Christmas New Year's or Thanksgiving with their daughter ever again
09:05this is the darkest Christmas imaginable for Carmen's family
09:12Carmen's mother immediately tells police who she thinks is responsible she was crying and she was screaming that Terry did this Terry did this she went on to tell
09:27me that Carmen and Terry were having issues he's having people at the house that are drinking and smoking she felt that she was being disrespected
09:36Carmen was very frustrated that Terry was constantly having people over and playing games and drinking and being loud and so she would just go to another room so she could focus on her studies
09:53Carmen's mother tells investigators her daughter's been on the verge of making major changes in her life
10:05she was about to leave the apartment she shares with boyfriend Terry
10:09they were in the process of trying to get her another place
10:13Carmen mom told Carmen not to tell Terry that she was moving out
10:19we might get upset and do something to her may even hurt her
10:24over the holidays Carmen reconnects with an old boyfriend named Brad who she met at Mississippi State
10:32once he left Mississippi State they kind of lost contact with one another then one day he got a call
10:41from her out of the blue and that's when she began explaining to him the relationship with Terry had become very toxic
10:48once Terry found out that Carmen was contacting Brad he became really enraged Terry was really jealous so jealous that he
11:00had hacked into her email account
11:02it was a bad Christmas for Carmen because she wasn't happy
11:08she wasn't happy during the interview emotionally it got me but it made me stronger to work harder to try and
11:16find out what happened who did this to Carmen Terry was a prime suspect at this point as the community was
11:24learning details through the news and the newspaper the pressure was on for the detectives because of the depravity of the crime to solve it
11:32tomorrow Ridgeland police could have a better idea of who stabbed a 22 year old woman to death
11:37Carmen Sanders was found dead in her apartment Friday night it was this apartment complex on Pine Knoll Drive in Ridgeland where the police investigation started
11:4622 year old Carmen Sanders lived here with her boyfriend around 11 o'clock Friday night he called police
11:54after finding Sanders stabbed to death in their apartment police always look at those closest to murder victims for
12:01possible suspects boyfriend Terry is no exception Carmen's mother has already pointed her finger at him
12:09and what he says on the 9-1-1 call raises suspicion
12:13not good he basically says my PlayStation 3 is missing and oh yeah my girlfriend is dead
12:32to me that sounded just extremely weird with a knife that's impelled into your girlfriend wouldn't you
12:40just mention that the horrible fact first Terry has a lot of red flags you have the 9-1-1 call you have
12:47the information from Carmen's mom about their volatile relationship about Carmen's plans to move out
12:54we had strong feelings that he may have been involved or knew who may have committed this crime
13:01it's not looking good for me
13:05Ridgeland Mississippi 2010 22 year old Carmen Sanders hoping for a happy new year she's breaking up with her
13:19current boyfriend and looking for a new apartment she's also reconnecting with an ex-boyfriend all while she
13:27studies to be a lab tech one week into the new year she's murdered by an unknown killer
13:35now Ridgeland police detective Frank Dillard is about to interview her boyfriend when I went into the interview room
13:44initially Terry's mom was writing the statement and I'm wondering is she putting in her words for her son that's not gonna happen I need his words and his words only so I asked her if she would leave while I spoke with him
14:00he asked me if he needed an attorney and before I could reply back he said don't worry about it I'm highly surprised Terry is not asking for an attorney
14:10I asked Terry to recount his activities of the day and he told me that he went to
14:40work at his job as a substitute teacher and after that he went to his part-time job as a fry cook at a restaurant
14:49we returned home around 10 30 ish and that's when he found Carmen dead
14:54I looked down in the bedroom I saw comfort laying on the floor man like someone was wrecked like a fighter
15:02I was like I walked in like girl don't complain because I just knew she was just trying to make me land
15:07I was gonna do something man
15:08when I pulled the cover back man I got something to knife
15:12and man when I pulled the cover back man she was just laying down
15:15man she wasn't moving
15:16with her eyes open man
15:18man that's the worst thing I've ever seen in my life man
15:22Terry's showing all the emotion you'd expect from a shocked and grieving boyfriend
15:28Terry we go hang your DNA on that night
15:31hey sure I'm coming
15:34he said when he saw the look on her face
15:39he knew that she was dead
15:40he realized that the PlayStation was missing
15:44and at that point he called 9-1-1
15:47I asked him about the 9-1-1 call
15:50most people is going to be
15:52hey my girlfriend has been killed
15:54get over here
15:55but not this guy
15:56Terry tells us that my PlayStation is gone
16:00my girlfriend is dead
16:02this doesn't match up
16:03this sounds and looks very suspicious
16:05I guess he cared a lot about his PlayStation
16:25I asked Terry about the problems and the issues that he and Carmen had been having
16:32and he mentioned that gaming was an issue for her
16:35it just did too much of it
16:38Terry also invites other gamers to the apartment
16:42which adds to the tension between Carmen and him
16:45Detective Dillard then asks what Terry knows
16:53about the emails Carmen's been getting from an ex-boyfriend
16:57this was my
16:58bread
17:00I read a female
17:03he had sent me to eat
17:03like it was
17:06night before last
17:07and night before last I read the email
17:09I was curious about it
17:11I was like yeah you must be still talking to him
17:13he told him out
17:13coming up moving up pretty big with you
17:15and you must be still messing with him
17:17she said like
17:18no I don't know what you're talking about
17:20as far as argument of the day
17:22officer I promise you
17:24you can check my phone records
17:25any phone I was
17:26I was here
17:28to that email
17:30texting it's just MySpace, Facebook
17:32only thing I got from her was
17:34Terry
17:35I know that you're hurt
17:37but I promise you don't tell you the truth
17:39I love you
17:40it's the last thing I heard from my daughter
17:41he said that
17:44he was jealous
17:46because he did in fact love her
17:48so Detective Dillard kept pressing Terry
17:50he started pressing him about
17:52snooping into the emails
17:54about the physical confrontations
17:56about the fights
17:57about the turmoil
17:58Terry admitted to all of that
18:00he said yeah you're absolutely right
18:01but
18:02I didn't kill her
18:03about two hours into
18:08talking to Terry
18:09and I realized that
18:11internally he's hurting
18:12Terry on video was very upset
18:16very distraught
18:17about Carmen being murdered
18:19more and more
18:26it's looking like
18:26Terry's not our guy
18:27at the conclusion of the interview
18:31Terry willingly gives
18:32Detective Dillard
18:33DNA
18:35fingerprints
18:35whatever he wants
18:37but he's not off the suspect list
18:39not until he's cleared by Frank
18:40we gotta wait for the DNA test
18:43to return
18:43to rule him out completely
18:45when the detectives
18:49received the autopsy report
18:51it confirms
18:52Carmen suffers
18:53a violent death
18:54the cause of
18:57and manner of death
18:58was a homicide
18:58by knife and puncture wounds
19:00she had a total of
19:0215 stab wounds
19:04the bulk of those
19:06came from a small knife
19:07a steak knife
19:08and the tip had broken off
19:10inside of her ribs
19:11and then the butcher knife
19:13there was a few stabs
19:14at those
19:14to me the chilling part
19:18is
19:19after he stabbed her
19:20a dozen times
19:22and the knife breaks off
19:23he's still so angry
19:25that he goes into
19:25the other room
19:26gets a butch knife
19:27comes back
19:27and keeps stabbing her
19:28it really takes
19:31a special kind of evil
19:32to be able
19:32to do something like that
19:34to stab somebody
19:35repeatedly
19:36just inches
19:37from their face
19:38the up close
19:40and personal manner
19:41of Carmen's murder
19:42tells police
19:43the killer is someone
19:44Carmen knew
19:45detectives have not
19:46closed the book
19:47on current boyfriend
19:48Terry
19:49but they also want
19:50to talk to
19:51ex-boyfriend
19:52Brad
19:53he spoke to Carmen
19:56the day before
19:57she was found
19:58stabbed to death
19:59as one of the last
20:01people to talk to her
20:03could he be involved
20:04detective
20:07Godson
20:07I'll talk to you
20:09about Carmen
20:10was Brad
20:11was Brad crazy enough
20:12about Carmen
20:13to kill her
20:13January 2010
20:22Ridgeland
20:22Mississippi
20:23police trying
20:25to find out
20:25who savagely
20:26murdered
20:27beautiful
20:2822 year old
20:29Carmen Sanders
20:30the 15 stab wounds
20:32she suffers
20:33make the murder
20:34seem
20:34very personal
20:35police rule out
20:37current boyfriend
20:38Terry
20:39he has an alibi
20:40now
20:41detective
20:42Cassandra Dotson
20:43turns her attention
20:44to Carmen's
20:45ex-college boyfriend
20:47Brad
20:48Detective Dotson
20:52is a very seasoned
20:53very astute
20:55detective
20:56she was the first
20:57black detective
20:58for Ridgeland
20:59and I was the first
21:00black detective
21:02that always just
21:03kind of formed
21:04a little bond
21:05between us
21:05so when Brad
21:08arrives for the
21:09interview
21:09he seems visibly
21:10upset about
21:11Carmen's death
21:12but police know
21:13that he could
21:14just be a good
21:14actor
21:15he was a very neat
21:39groomed young man
21:41appear to be educated
21:44well spoken
21:45articulate
21:47he was from
21:48Gulfport
21:49two and a half
21:50to three hours
21:51away
21:52from the
21:53Jackson area
21:54he spoke to
21:56Carmen
21:56the day
21:57before
21:58she was found
21:59stabbed to death
22:00they were planning to see
22:22each other
22:23so they were doing more
22:24than just emailing each other
22:25I texted
22:27Friday night
22:29Friday night
22:30what time
22:32text message
22:35the last I talked to her
22:37was 8.30
22:37well 8.31
22:39I sent him
22:41me and old
22:42we're all changed
22:43in the car
22:44and
22:45I get some gas
22:48so I said
22:48look at the others
22:49I come to the Walmart
22:51and I remember the last time
22:52I talked to her
22:53she had told me
22:54she asked me
22:54at the confirmation
22:55for the money gram
22:57they had spoken about
22:59she needed some money
23:00and he sent her
23:02a money gram
23:03to Walmart
23:04so that she can get
23:05some gas
23:06and do whatever
23:07she had to do
23:07to her car
23:08and after
23:09she picked it up
23:10she never called him
23:11he kept calling
23:13texting
23:14and
23:15she never called back
23:16and he said
23:17she's got my money
23:19she used me
23:20he became
23:21kind of upset
23:22did Brad get upset
23:25and decide to come down
23:26and find out
23:27what happened to
23:27his money
23:28he could have been
23:30angrier with her
23:30he could have come
23:31over there
23:32and he could have killed her
23:33so detective Dotson's
23:34interviewing Brad
23:35but she's a good detective
23:36so she's interviewing him
23:38looking at his body language
23:39what he has to say
23:41he had a lot of sighs
23:44quiet at certain moments
23:45not wanting to
23:47believe that this has happened
23:48then he did say
23:50if I had only
23:51just talked to her
23:53and told her
23:54just go on and leave
23:54right then
23:55maybe she would not
23:57be dead
23:58he was very emotional
24:00I didn't get a feeling
24:21that he was involved
24:23in any of it
24:23except giving
24:25Carmen aid
24:26for his money
24:27to try to help her out
24:28with the issues
24:29that she would have
24:30in that day
24:30so at this point
24:32it doesn't seem like
24:33Brad is their guy
24:35but they still need to
24:37verify his alibi
24:38and check his phone records
24:40which could take
24:41a day or two
24:41now we're back
24:44at square one
24:45obviously the priority
24:46is to catch this person
24:47he's very dangerous
24:48you don't know
24:49what's going to happen again
24:50there was a sense of urgency
24:51police start over
24:54now that both boyfriends
24:55are seemingly
24:56in the clear
24:57they still can't shape
24:58the idea
24:59that the murder
25:00is personal
25:01they wonder
25:02who else
25:03Carmen knows
25:04that's when they
25:05ask Terry
25:05the names of
25:06the gamers
25:07who came
25:08to the apartment
25:09he gave us
25:12two names
25:13a guy named
25:14Tyrone
25:15and a guy named
25:16Robert Harvey
25:17both of whom
25:18he works with
25:18my information
25:20that I was given
25:20about Terry's friends
25:23that hung out
25:24at his apartment
25:25there were two males
25:27they constantly game
25:29drinking
25:30smoking party there
25:31Frank checks out Tyrone
25:34Tyrone has an alibi
25:35before Robert Harvey
25:38is concerned
25:39that name
25:41Robert Harvey
25:42rung a bell with me
25:43I went to another detective
25:47and he confirmed
25:48that we had dealt
25:49with him before
25:49I was in fact
25:51in the car with him
25:52to help him
25:52effect a warrant
25:53on Robert Harvey
25:54for sexual assault
25:55it was about
25:59a year and a half
26:00maybe two years
26:00prior
26:01we tried
26:01a number of times
26:02to try to
26:03arrest him
26:04or serve a warrant
26:05and we later found
26:06that he had fled
26:08and gone to Florida
26:09the allegation was
26:11that Robert Harvey
26:12had lured a woman
26:13over to his apartment
26:14very nice
26:16very charming
26:16and as soon
26:17as she got inside
26:18he shut the door
26:19and he turned in
26:21to a whole other person
26:22he locked the doors
26:24ripped her clothing off
26:28sexually assaulted her
26:29the lady really thought
26:31that she was going to die
26:33Frank did a little more
26:35digging into Robert Harvey's past
26:37and he talked to
26:38a local confidential informant
26:39he knew
26:40who was a prostitute
26:41in the area
26:41and she told Frank
26:43that all the girls
26:44knew who Robert Harvey was
26:46she told me that
26:48if in fact
26:49if you get in the car
26:50or in a room
26:51or whatever with him
26:51you better
26:52give him exactly
26:54what he wants
26:54and if you don't
26:57you're subject to hurt
26:58you real bad
26:58so he went to Florida
27:01and by the time
27:02they were able
27:03to get him back
27:04the woman
27:05got scared
27:05and had changed
27:06her mind
27:07about cooperating
27:07and testifying
27:08against Robert Harvey
27:09so it appears
27:11that Harvey got away
27:12with it
27:13and escaped justice
27:14detectives take
27:17a close look
27:18at Robert Harvey's
27:20rap sheet
27:20he was no stranger
27:23to crime
27:24and he had been
27:25in and out of jail
27:27numerous times
27:28it was pretty lengthy
27:30robberies
27:31assaults
27:33but there was one
27:34that really stood out
27:35he has actually
27:37killed a woman
27:38in the past
27:39murder
27:40this is a massive
27:43oh wow moment
27:44you don't get
27:45a bigger red flag
27:46than that
27:462010 Ridgeland
27:55Mississippi
27:56only a few days
27:57into the new year
27:58police are searching
28:00for a violent ex-con
28:02his name
28:02Robert Harvey
28:04he's now
28:05the prime suspect
28:05in the vicious murder
28:07of a beautiful young student
28:09Carmen Sanders
28:10the 22 year old
28:11has been viciously stabbed
28:13over 15 times
28:15Robert Harvey
28:16knows the victim
28:17he's often been
28:18at her apartment
28:19playing video games
28:21with her boyfriend
28:21when detectives
28:23look at his rap sheet
28:24they find out
28:25he's killed before
28:26prior homicide
28:31was his ex-girlfriend
28:32he wrapped the
28:33telephone cord
28:34around her neck
28:35and strangled her
28:35to death
28:36her kids were home
28:37it was just
28:39terribly brutal
28:40to say this guy
28:42was dangerous
28:42was an understatement
28:43so he's convicted
28:44of manslaughter
28:45and he's sentenced
28:46to 20 years
28:47behind bars
28:48but he only serves
28:49five years
28:50it was in another
28:52jurisdiction
28:52and the Mississippi
28:53Department of Corrections
28:54released him
28:55due to overcrowding
28:55talk about a
28:59travesty of justice
29:00the fact that
29:01he was released early
29:02looked like it could
29:03have potentially
29:03led to Carmen's murder
29:05detectives immediately
29:09see both murders
29:10have something in common
29:12the killing of his
29:13girlfriend
29:13and the murder
29:15of Carmen
29:15were both extremely
29:16violent
29:17violent overkill
29:19so those two things
29:20it's always a red flag
29:21I'm thinking
29:23if he's killed before
29:24then maybe he's
29:25killed again
29:25in another
29:26odd coincidence
29:28the name
29:29Robert Harvey
29:30rings a bell
29:31with detective
29:32Cassandra Dotson
29:33I said
29:34I know
29:35that name
29:36that name
29:37that name
29:38and then I said
29:39oh that's right
29:40I went to school
29:40with his mom
29:41we had the same
29:42birthday
29:42and uh
29:44we just call
29:45each other's sisters
29:46the next morning
29:48the next morning
29:48detective Dotson
29:50reaches out
29:50to Robert Harvey's
29:52mother
29:52I told her
29:55we were investigating
29:56a murder case
29:58of a young lady
30:00the name Robert Harvey
30:01came up
30:02and she said
30:04oh yeah
30:06Robert my son
30:08he talked to me
30:09about that
30:09he told me that
30:11one of his friends
30:12his girlfriends
30:12had been murdered
30:14and that she was stabbed
30:16numerous times
30:17about 20-some times
30:18and she was wrapped
30:20in a blanket
30:21and
30:22PlayStation was gone
30:24Detective Cassandra Dotson
30:27strikes gold
30:28with their conversation
30:29none of what Harvey's mom
30:31told her
30:32is public information
30:33not the fact
30:34the victim is stabbed
30:35multiple times
30:36or
30:37that the PlayStation
30:38is stolen
30:39Robert told his mom
30:41that a girl
30:42had been murdered
30:42down the street
30:43and told her details
30:45that were not released
30:46to the public
30:46so
30:48I asked Carolyn
30:49would she come
30:49and talk with me
30:50and give me
30:51an interview
30:52and she said
30:54yeah
30:54getting Robert Harvey's mom
30:59officially on the record
31:00becomes a must
31:01for Richland detectives
31:03Carolyn spoke yesterday
31:09about
31:11the case of
31:13Carmen Sanders
31:14I want you to just
31:15kind of tell me
31:16over again
31:17what
31:18you know about
31:20what Robert told you
31:21this is what
31:23he said
31:24when the fiance
31:25that I work
31:26when he went home
31:28he found
31:29his girlfriend
31:30dead with a knife
31:31and she had this
31:33stab
31:3322 times
31:35I'm like
31:3522 times
31:36you know
31:38it shocked me
31:38I'm like
31:3822
31:39I'm like
31:39damn
31:40who would do that
31:40you know
31:41I'm like
31:42damn
31:42I said
31:42well I ain't see it
31:43on news
31:43you know
31:45well it ain't been
31:46on news yet
31:46you know
31:48I'm like
31:49damn
31:49I'm like
31:50okay
31:51if it happened
31:51Friday
31:52it should have
31:52been on the news
31:53I don't know
31:55what time
31:55the mother has given
31:56Cassandra vital information
31:57that only the killer
31:58would know
31:58through her son
31:59Robert Harvey
31:59and you know
32:01mama's always gonna
32:01love their baby
32:02and I don't think
32:03she knew
32:03that she was
32:04putting a nail
32:05in the coffin
32:05of Robert
32:06no I said
32:07who would do this
32:08you know
32:09it don't make no sense
32:10and then
32:11when it did come on
32:12when I saw it
32:13on the news
32:14they said
32:14first murder
32:15of the year
32:16you know
32:17and I told him
32:18I said
32:18I seen it on the news
32:19I said
32:20but they didn't say
32:20she was stabbed
32:21they didn't say it
32:22they said
32:23they didn't know
32:24how she was killed
32:25that's what the
32:25nude folks said
32:26then he said
32:27oh they know
32:28they just not saying
32:29how did he say
32:31he found out
32:31uh
32:33I don't know
32:34uh
32:34the fiance
32:36told him
32:37so after the
32:39interview with Carolyn
32:40I didn't want to
32:42just alert her
32:43and make her
32:43give him something
32:44that would make him
32:45try to flee
32:46so I didn't say
32:47anything else to her
32:48I did not give in
32:49to her
32:50that we're suspecting
32:51her son
32:52and we started
32:55moving in on
32:56the information
32:57we received
32:58detectives are now
33:02ready to bring
33:02Robert Harvey
33:03in for questioning
33:05as luck
33:06what happened
33:06Robert had
33:07traffic warrants
33:08on him
33:09once we knew
33:09that
33:10we had a
33:11beat officer
33:11to pull him
33:12over
33:12then he was
33:13able to be
33:14arrested
33:14and brought
33:15to our jail
33:15I walked into the
33:33interview room
33:34and noticed that
33:35Robert was really
33:36short
33:37probably about
33:38five five five four
33:39maybe 150 pounds
33:42if that
33:42I'm wondering if
33:43is this guy
33:45really a killer
33:45so he's saying
33:48if I sign this
33:49what he's saying
33:51that I'm allowed
33:51to talk to you all
33:52yeah
33:53but I can't stop
33:55I want to
33:55for a lawyer
33:56or whatever
33:57yeah
33:57I'm thinking now
33:59this is probably
34:00our guy
34:00but we're only
34:02going to get one
34:02maybe two shots
34:03of talking to him
34:04at most
34:05how do you know Terry
34:10how do I know Terry
34:12yeah
34:13I just met him
34:14when I started
34:14working at my name
34:15have you been
34:16to his house before
34:17yeah
34:17twice
34:18when we go there
34:20to play the game
34:20Terry got a
34:22playstation 3
34:23when was the last
34:23time that you were
34:24at Terry's house
34:25I have to say
34:27last
34:27not this weekend
34:29just passed
34:29I think it was
34:31the weekend
34:31before that one
34:32he seemed really
34:35relaxed
34:35very open
34:36a lot of manners
34:37yes sir
34:38no sir
34:39and I'm thinking
34:41okay
34:41hey
34:42this guy seemed
34:42to be okay
34:43but I'm also thinking
34:44that it could be a ruse
34:46you know
34:47he could still be
34:47that monster
34:48I'm hearing about
34:48Detective Dillard
34:49asks Robert Harvey
34:51if he was in the
34:52vicinity of Carmen's
34:54apartment
34:54the night she's
34:56killed
34:56were you in that
34:58area first
34:58I stay in it
35:00think about it
35:01before you enter
35:01I'm talking about
35:02around the apartment
35:03complex
35:03where Terry
35:04I went over
35:09yeah
35:10yeah
35:10it's at
35:11yeah
35:11okay
35:12what were you doing
35:13over there Frank
35:13I went over to
35:14see her house
35:15Robert Harvey claims
35:17he's visiting a friend
35:19named Michelle
35:20who coincidentally
35:21lives in an apartment
35:23complex near Carmen's
35:25Detective Frank Diller
35:26decides to call
35:28his bluff
35:28what if I talk to
35:29people
35:30not necessarily
35:32going to put you
35:32at Shell
35:33building
35:33or Shell
35:34apartment
35:35but I got
35:36somebody
35:37to put you
35:38at Terry
35:38apartment
35:39now they come
35:40quickly
35:40I don't tell you
35:41to come
35:41now we start
35:43putting the video
35:43we're going to see
35:44you just go to Shell
35:45or we're going to see
35:45you go somewhere else
35:46now you're going to see
35:46you go nowhere else
35:47now what's her phone
35:48it's my phone
35:51Robert gave us the name
35:53of a person that he
35:54was with the night
35:55of the murder
35:55I went back
35:58I made contact
35:59with that person
35:59and she said
36:00she hasn't seen Robert
36:02in weeks if not months
36:03Harvey has just been
36:06called in a big fat lie
36:07what happens next
36:08Harvey wises up
36:11and pulls the plug
36:12so at that point
36:14we asked for an attorney
36:15we couldn't talk
36:17to him anymore
36:17this is the worst
36:20scenario
36:21that could be
36:21Ridgeland Mississippi
36:29police are closing
36:31in on the killer
36:32of Carmen Sanders
36:33they're holding
36:34a prime suspect
36:35named Robert Harvey
36:36overnight in jail
36:38they need however
36:40to obtain more evidence
36:41from him
36:42or they'll be forced
36:44to release him
36:45the next day
36:47as luck would have it
36:48he requested to speak
36:49with Detective Dillard
36:50again
36:50he wanted to talk
36:51to me
36:52because there was
36:54something he probably
36:55had not been
36:57truthful about
36:58yeah
36:59can you explain
37:01that to us
37:02so what happens
37:05he now knows
37:06he's been caught
37:06in a lie
37:06and he goes
37:07and he sits
37:08in a jail cell
37:08all night
37:09and he starts
37:09thinking how can
37:10I get out of this
37:11and his bright idea
37:12was to call Frank
37:13in and say
37:14look I wasn't
37:14exactly truthful
37:15Robert Harvey
37:17thinks police
37:18may have his DNA
37:19so he changes
37:20his story
37:21what he says
37:22next is
37:23a bombshell
37:24but I
37:27been out
37:28for about three months
37:29you've known
37:30you've known
37:31her
37:31about three months
37:32Carmen
37:33Carmen
37:33Carmen
37:34Sanders
37:35we had six
37:37we had six
37:37at my apartment
37:38we had six
37:41at her apartment
37:43when was the last time
37:45y'all had six
37:46we asked
37:48I believe
37:48we asked
37:49you went
37:51two of them
37:51for two
37:53before she died
37:54yeah
37:55yeah
37:56you had
37:57you had sex
37:58with her
37:58at her place
37:59yeah
38:00when is that
38:00yeah
38:00he's the night
38:01Robert drops
38:04a bombshell
38:05he puts himself
38:06at the scene
38:07knowing Carmen
38:08and now
38:09all of a sudden
38:10Frank's got
38:10a prime suspect
38:11who admits
38:12to knowing Carmen
38:13and he's talking
38:14about having
38:15sex with Carmen
38:15now Detective Dillard
38:17turns up the heat
38:18he tells Robert Harvey
38:20that he knows
38:22Harvey
38:22was inside
38:23Carmen's apartment
38:24the night
38:25she's murdered
38:26he told me
38:28that he and Carmen
38:29were scheduled
38:29to have sex
38:30that day
38:30at her apartment
38:31I tasted her
38:33at Friday morning
38:36I asked me
38:37can I see her
38:38she said
38:39well you know
38:40it gonna have to be
38:40before Terry
38:41get out
38:41I go to the door
38:44they were not knocking
38:46the third time
38:48when I'm knocking
38:49the door come over
38:50come open
38:52I'm like
38:55come
38:55come
38:56it's dead to see her
38:57I go on further
39:00I seen her
39:02laying down
39:03scared she out
39:06if she was dead
39:08or not
39:08I didn't even know
39:09did you believe me
39:11nah
39:12I don't know
39:12I don't know
39:13cause she was covered up
39:14why did you know
39:15something was wrong
39:16with her
39:16cause I seen a knife
39:17I seen blood
39:18Robert claimed
39:20that when he got
39:21to Carmen's apartment
39:22he walked in
39:23and saw her
39:25wrapped in a blanket
39:26with a knife
39:27in her
39:28at that point
39:29he ran out
39:30asked Robert
39:32why didn't he call
39:33911
39:33he said he panicked
39:35at this point
39:36I'm happy that
39:37Robert had just
39:38put himself
39:38in the crime scene
39:40with me
39:41I panicked for a minute
39:44just stood there
39:45I didn't know
39:46what to do
39:47I wrapped a cell phone
39:50on my pouch
39:51and I attended
39:52call 911
39:53but I didn't
39:55I got spooked
39:56left out
39:58the fact that
40:00Harvey puts himself
40:01inside Carmen's
40:03apartment
40:03the night of the murder
40:04is a game changer
40:05I decided to call
40:07Robert Bluff
40:08and asked Robert
40:08about his DNA
40:09being on the knife
40:10why is his DNA
40:12on the knife
40:13I can't prove
40:15whether y'all had
40:15sex before
40:16or whatever
40:16you may be telling
40:18the truth about that
40:19but I need to know
40:20your DNA
40:21on that knife
40:23after I said
40:25that to Robert
40:25I could see
40:26the wheels turning
40:27in his head
40:27the blank stir
40:28in his face
40:29him trying to think
40:30of another answer
40:31there's a big pause
40:35Robert
40:36and Robert says
40:43okay well
40:44I went over
40:45to see if she was okay
40:46and I may have
40:47touched the knife
40:48why?
40:49because I was going
40:49to take the knife out
40:50I touched the knife
40:52so at this point
40:53come on
40:54when you're in a hole
40:55put the shovel down
40:55but Robert Harvey
40:57does not
40:57put the shovel down
40:59he keeps digging
41:00a massive hole
41:01according to Robert
41:04he and his brother
41:06drove up
41:07to Carmen's apartment
41:08went inside
41:09while he and Carmen
41:12were having sex
41:13the brother was
41:14in the other room
41:15stealing it
41:16Carmen came out
41:18witnessing him
41:19stealing some items
41:20and said
41:21I'm going to call
41:21the police
41:22at that point
41:23the brother
41:24just got a knife
41:25I don't know
41:25my brother
41:25walked in the kitchen
41:26came out the kitchen
41:27I tried to grab a knife
41:29and they murdered
41:31I'm not buying it
41:35it shows that he'll do
41:36whatever it takes to do
41:37to get away
41:38he has no loyalty
41:40to anyone
41:40he'll throw anybody
41:41under the bus
41:42just to get free
41:42at this point
41:45Harvey asks
41:46for an attorney
41:47but it's too late
41:48because he has already
41:49incriminated himself
41:50we've got a suspect
41:52that says he knows
41:54the murder victim
41:55says he went to the
41:56apartment that night
41:57and admits to touching
41:58the knife
41:59that killed
42:00Carmen Sanders
42:01that's all you need
42:02so at that point
42:03he's charged
42:04with capital murder
42:05in Mississippi
42:06that's a death penalty case
42:08detective Cassandra Dotson
42:14delivers the news
42:15to Carmen's parents
42:16I was excited
42:18but hurt
42:20to be able to
42:21tell
42:22Carmen's mom
42:23that we did
42:24arrest the suspect
42:25she cried
42:27she cried
42:30my main focus then
42:32was to try to
42:32sympathize with her
42:34and let her know
42:35that I felt
42:35her pain
42:36and she thanked me
42:38and she said
42:38I felt like
42:39in my heart
42:40that you would do it
42:41police tracked down
42:44the playstation
42:45Robert Harvey
42:46stole the night
42:47of the murder
42:47when we interviewed
42:50Harvey's brother
42:51he did say
42:53that Harvey
42:54did have a playstation
42:55that he was trying
42:56to sell
42:57and he knew
42:57that Harvey
42:58did not have
42:59his own
43:00playstation 3
43:01so his assumption
43:02was Harvey
43:03stole the playstation
43:05from Tara's apartment
43:06the day that
43:07Carmen was murdered
43:08the Ridgeland Police Department
43:11had put together
43:12a really good case
43:13and this was
43:14a very dangerous man
43:15that if you looked at him
43:16and saw this small
43:17little guy going around
43:18you wouldn't realize
43:19how dangerous he was
43:20but thanks to
43:22the police department
43:22and the detectives
43:23we were able to
43:24get him off the street
43:25and get him ready
43:25for trial
43:26in the end
43:29there is no trial
43:30his defense lawyer
43:32came to us
43:33and wanted to
43:34cut a plea deal
43:34ultimately what happened
43:36was if we took death
43:37off of the table
43:39he would plead
43:40to that murder
43:42and do life
43:43without the possibility
43:44of parole
43:45Assistant District Attorney
43:46Brian Buckley
43:47signs off on the deal
43:49a cold-blooded killer
43:51is locked up
43:52for the rest of his life
43:53I would say
43:55this is probably
43:55one of the most dangerous
43:56individuals I've ever met
43:57we knew that
43:58a serial killer
43:59was off the street
44:00people seem to forget
44:01he had killed before
44:03Robert Harvey
44:04is a cold-blooded killer
44:06and he's a coward
44:07he's out there
44:08attacking women
44:09with weapons
44:09he is not a man
44:11Carmen had a
44:12pretty bright future
44:13ahead of her
44:14and just because
44:16her boyfriend
44:16at the time
44:17happens to work
44:18with a psychopath
44:18you know
44:19her life is just
44:20taken from her
44:21police believe
44:23Robert Harvey
44:24murdered Carmen Sanders
44:25after she caught him
44:27inside their apartment
44:28stealing the PlayStation
44:29on the night of Carmen's
44:32murder
44:32she had made plans
44:33to have dinner
44:33with a friend
44:34on the way to dinner
44:35she told her friend
44:36that she was just
44:37going to stop in
44:37to her apartment
44:38real quick
44:38and grab her
44:39Christmas present
44:40for her that she still
44:41had under the
44:41Christmas tree
44:42if she hadn't gone
44:43home to get that
44:44Christmas gift
44:45she could still
44:45be alive today
44:46I tell people
44:48this all the time
44:50don't leave your doors
44:51unlocked
44:52especially during
44:53the Christmas time
44:54people are looking
44:55to still break in
44:56and this guy
44:57was not only
44:58a burglar
44:59a thief
45:00he was a murderer
45:01he had to resume
45:02every Christmas
45:07since her murder
45:08detectives at the
45:09Ridgeland Police Department
45:10think about a beautiful
45:12innocent young victim
45:14named Carmen
45:15yeah
45:17I have daughters
45:18this case comes
45:20to my mind
45:21quite a bit
45:22especially holidays
45:24the officers
45:25of the Ridgeland Police Department
45:28prioritized
45:29this case
45:31and they left
45:32no stones
45:33unturned
45:34and I'm grateful
45:35to be able to be
45:36a part of it
45:37we
45:38give some closure
45:39to Carmen's family
45:41so many times
45:42we simply ask
45:44why
45:44why is an
45:46innocent
45:47and beautiful
45:48young person
45:49murdered
45:50taken from us
45:51just as her life
45:52is really beginning
45:53why are some people
45:54so evil
45:55and so cold
45:57that they will
45:57willingly
45:58take that life
46:00it's the eternal
46:01question of good
46:02versus evil
46:03a question that
46:04seems even more
46:06tragic
46:06when it happens
46:07during the most
46:09joyous days
46:10of the year
46:10I'm Nancy Grace
46:12thank you for
46:14joining us here
46:15on the Christmas
46:16Killings
46:17of the year
46:19God
46:21has the
46:23life
46:24we
46:26all
46:28will
46:31help
46:31see you
46:33as
46:33well
46:39you
46:40I
46:41I
46:42I
46:42I
46:43I
46:44I
46:44I
46:45I
46:46et
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