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00:00This programme contains strong language and themes of an adult nature.
00:05This is a no-holds-barred conversation.
00:08I think for me now, I know when it's over and it's dawn,
00:12I want to be able to be as free as a bird.
00:14I want to be as free as possible with no ties and no one holding me back.
00:18I don't like it, but I really don't like birds.
00:21I've got a pure pigeon phobia.
00:23I don't want to sugarcoat anything. I don't want any false narratives.
00:27I don't want to try and keep something going, hoping that they might change their mind.
00:32I'm Sophie Gravia.
00:34And I'm Christine McGuinness.
00:36And we're here to hold your hand through this weird but wonderful world of situationships.
00:40Yes, we are. How are you?
00:43I'm good. I'm okay. Happy to be back. How are you?
00:46Yes, I'm very happy to be back. I'm good. I've been busy.
00:49I have been in London for work.
00:51When I say work, it ends up being like a 2-3 hour event and you're there for a couple
00:56of days, so it was lovely.
00:56Same. That's pretty much what I've done.
00:59I went down to London for work and then socialised and situationshipped whilst I was there.
01:06Yes, I love that. I literally went to food markets and just go around TikTok and find all the best
01:14places to eat.
01:15It's like my happy place. I love that.
01:17Well, you'll be pleased to know that my half-month celibacy is over.
01:22Yay!
01:22The drought is finished everyone.
01:26So I went on a little double date.
01:29Okay.
01:29Mate date kind of thing.
01:31Okay.
01:32I didn't plan it.
01:33Usually I like to get involved in the planning.
01:36Do you? Are you a planner?
01:37Well, I hate the planning.
01:39I know, I couldn't imagine you being a planner.
01:41I hate it. It drives me insane, but I like to feel comfortable.
01:44Yes.
01:44I sort of know what I like and stuff like that.
01:47And this kind of was just one of those random things.
01:49I literally got a text message saying, do you fancy going to the basketball later?
01:54Oh, I think that's what your story is.
01:56Yeah.
01:56So I just thought, do you know what, why not?
01:58It's not something I've done before.
01:59It's not really my thing, but you know, I'm there for the sporty women.
02:04I'm not there for the sporty women.
02:06I'm there to support the sporty women.
02:11Was it good?
02:13Well, I thought I was going to watch the women's basketball.
02:18So I said, yeah, it was the men's basketball.
02:21But like I said, I was there to support the sporty people regardless.
02:25Was there cheerleaders at least?
02:27The cheerleaders were amazing.
02:29They were really cool.
02:30What are cheerleaders?
02:31The wedges were nice.
02:33So I had a good night.
02:34It was different.
02:35It was something different, but I enjoyed it.
02:37It was good.
02:37I love that.
02:38I love that.
02:39Well, we are gathered here today to talk about all things marriage.
02:46So you've obviously been married.
02:48I have.
02:49Yeah.
02:49And I don't think I'll ever do it again.
02:52Which doesn't mean that it was a bad or a negative experience.
02:56It's just something you've done.
02:57I've done it and I've learned from it.
02:59So, no, I always wanted it.
03:04I always believed in marriage.
03:06Yeah.
03:06And I still do in many ways, but I've been there and done it.
03:12And I had a really long marriage and the divorce was really, really tough.
03:18And knowing that that is something that could potentially be an outcome isn't something that I want to risk again.
03:25Go through again.
03:25Yep.
03:25I fully believe that you can have a gorgeous, loyal, committed, respectable relationship without the legal documents.
03:33It was the legalities of marriage that I didn't fully understand.
03:37When you're separated in a normal relationship, if you're not married, you can go your separate ways.
03:43You know, you might have some ties.
03:45Yep.
03:45You might have a house or a business or whatever.
03:47But when you're married and you've got children as well, those ties, are they lifelong?
03:53They just are.
03:54Yeah.
03:55Even after you're divorced, you're still in touch, you're still communicating.
03:58And for me, fortunately, it's okay.
04:01I'm in a nice situationship with my ex-husband at home.
04:05But for moving forward personally, it does kind of hold you back.
04:09And I wouldn't want that.
04:10I think for me now, I know when it's over and it's done, I want to be able to be
04:16as free as a bed.
04:17I want to be as free as possible with no ties and no one holding me back and no legalities
04:21forcing me to have to deal with the separation that I'm trying to deal with.
04:25Could you imagine, because you've already got that at home, could you imagine that elsewhere as well?
04:29Yeah.
04:30Yeah, it would.
04:31It would be too much.
04:32But I think in the modern day world as well, obviously everyone's a lot more accessible, which means there's more
04:38opportunities.
04:38And that's not just with finding relationships or partners.
04:42There's more opportunities for women in particular with work, with career choices, freedom of their own choice.
04:48I think there's lots of reasons that it's becoming less popular.
04:52And I don't think it's all just to do with divorces or, you know, they've heard bad stories about marriage.
04:57I think finances come into it a lot.
05:00Would you get married?
05:02I would get married.
05:03I think it's a nice concept, but I'm not in a rush to get married.
05:08I mean, don't get me wrong.
05:09I do send the odd engagement ring posts when I see it on Instagram to Chris.
05:16But I think, see as well, it's something that I've never done.
05:20It's something that from, you're a wee girl, you're drummed into it as well.
05:25And it's like, what's your wedding dress going to be like?
05:26What's this like?
05:27Yeah.
05:27I mean, what's changed is if I did get married, I would definitely not have a big wedding.
05:32So I would make sure it was really, really small.
05:34I think the concept of it is nice.
05:39Yeah, I think it would be definitely something I would do, but I'm not in a rush to do it.
05:42Is it because you want a marriage or a wedding?
05:46No, I wouldn't care about the wedding.
05:47So I think that's what's changed.
05:48I wouldn't really care about the wedding.
05:51I think it'd just be nice to have probably that security that I've never had before.
05:56So this is the part I don't understand.
05:58I agree with it.
05:59The marriage and the wedding is two completely different things.
06:01I think a wedding is a celebration.
06:02If you just want a wedding and you want to have your big day, you don't really need a legal
06:07wedding.
06:08I think you can have beautiful blessings.
06:10You can still refer to each other as husband and wife.
06:13You can still make that commitment and you can celebrate your love in front of all your family and friends.
06:17You can do all of that without putting yourself in a position where you're legally married and tied to somebody.
06:23So like a fake wedding?
06:25It's a celebration of your love.
06:26It's a blessing.
06:28Obviously.
06:29See, I do think the celebration of love is a beautiful thing.
06:32I do.
06:33So I'm not against that at all.
06:34And I love the idea of referring to each other as this is my wife or this is my husband.
06:41I love it.
06:42I love that.
06:43We were in Costco the other day and, you know, they asked for receipts a million times when you're leaving.
06:48And he's like, my wife's got it.
06:51Thanks, son.
06:52Okay.
06:55That's me.
06:56That's me.
06:59But yeah, it's silly really, isn't it?
07:01But the marriage itself is obviously completely different to the wedding.
07:06The wedding is the celebration.
07:07Marriage is obviously a lifelong commitment.
07:11It's a lot of work.
07:13And I don't mean that in a bad way.
07:15Yeah.
07:15Even good things take work.
07:16If you want to progress and you want to keep going, you want to keep flourishing and remain happy and
07:21present,
07:21you've got to always be checking in with each other, making sure you're still on the same page, making sure
07:28you want the same things,
07:31you know, making sure you put time in for each other.
07:33Yeah.
07:33I think sometimes people can get lost a little bit in work and life.
07:36But obviously you've been married before and that was, you don't think it will happen again.
07:43But obviously now, same sex marriage, a lot of people said that they were in a same sex relationship and
07:49they got married a bit quicker than normal because obviously they don't know if it's going to be taken away
07:54from them again.
07:55Yeah.
07:56And I understand that.
07:57Does it adjust your thinking on it or are you just totally...
08:00Yeah, it does.
08:02And I get it completely.
08:04It is something that we should be so, so happy and celebrated and proud of that that has happened.
08:11But at the same time, it's heartbreaking that it was even an issue in the first place.
08:14Yeah.
08:14It was only 2013, which isn't that long ago, that gay marriage became legal.
08:19I think it was even later here in Scotland.
08:212014 in Scotland.
08:22Yeah.
08:22It was a year later.
08:25So I understand why people, especially in the gay community, would rush to get married.
08:32I think there's the fear that that law could change, that it could be taken away from them because it
08:37happens.
08:38It's just like an equal opportunity.
08:39Yeah.
08:40And it weren't that long ago that the law changed in our favour to be able to get married.
08:45I understand why in the gay community people will want to get married, celebrate their love.
08:49It's something that hasn't been allowed for years and years and years when straight couples have been able to get
08:56married forever.
08:57It's never been an issue.
08:58It's been supported.
08:59It's been encouraged.
09:01You know, it's...
09:02Yeah, it is amazing.
09:05It is magical.
09:06It is definitely something to celebrate and love and enjoy.
09:10But I just don't need to do that again.
09:14You've been there, Donna.
09:15Yeah.
09:15You can come to my wedding.
09:17I'll come to everyone else's wedding.
09:18Yeah, I'll be the bride.
09:19But I'll run from the bouquet.
09:23I don't need the legalities.
09:26But I would absolutely love a blessing.
09:28I would love a celebration of love.
09:30I would love a big gay blessing.
09:32I would love to refer to somebody as my wife.
09:34A big gay blessing.
09:34A big gay blessing.
09:35A lot.
09:36A lot.
09:36A big rainbow heart.
09:38Yeah.
09:39Because we can.
09:40Yeah.
09:46Okay, so time for our hot mess hotline.
09:49This is a man who's got in contact with us.
09:52He's 22 but he wants to remain anonymous.
09:55Okay.
09:55Okay.
09:57Hey guys.
09:58I have always been in monogamous relationships.
10:00But after I broke up with my ex-girlfriend a few years ago.
10:03I met a couple on a dating app.
10:04After meeting them in person.
10:06I began dating the women.
10:07They were part of a wider polycule.
10:09And the man was also dating other people.
10:11They introduced me to the concept of ethical non-monogamy.
10:14And ever since I've been exploring this kind of lifestyle.
10:17I found it to be very enriching.
10:19I think it's lovely to be able to hold ethical romantic connections with multiple people.
10:23It allows me to have different needs met.
10:25By different people.
10:26Without guilt or shame.
10:28I'm able to open up about my attractions.
10:30And identity self-expression.
10:31Without worrying about the restrictions of monogamy.
10:34This has been a very liberating process.
10:36And I now don't think I could ever be monogamous again.
10:38Do either of you think you'd be open to exploring ethical non-monogamy?
10:44Absolutely not.
10:45But I love it for you.
10:47The...
10:47The...
10:47The end.
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