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„Láthatatlanul?” Uniós képviselők vitáznak a migráns-visszaküldő központokról a The Ringben
The Ring Brüsszelből: EP-képviselők vitáznak, felgyorsítják-e a visszaküldési központok az irreguláris migránsok hazatérését
BŐVEBBEN : http://hu.euronews.com/2026/04/09/lathatatlanul-unios-kepviselok-vitaznak-a-migrans-visszakuldo-kozpontokrol-a-the-ringben
Iratkozzon fel: Az Euronews elérhető 12 nyelven
The Ring Brüsszelből: EP-képviselők vitáznak, felgyorsítják-e a visszaküldési központok az irreguláris migránsok hazatérését
BŐVEBBEN : http://hu.euronews.com/2026/04/09/lathatatlanul-unios-kepviselok-vitaznak-a-migrans-visszakuldo-kozpontokrol-a-the-ringben
Iratkozzon fel: Az Euronews elérhető 12 nyelven
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00:07Hello there and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show, broadcasting here from the
00:13European Parliament in Brussels. On The Ring, elected members of the European Parliament go
00:19face-to-face on some of the biggest issues facing the European Union. Today we're focusing on
00:25migration, with new rules that allow deportation centers to be set up outside EU borders. Luis
00:31Albertos has more. On the 26th of March, the European Parliament adopted a reform enabling
00:39member states to set up migration return hubs in third countries for rejected asylum seekers.
00:46The measure marks a significant hardening of EU migration policy, allowing deportations to
00:52external facilities negotiated with partner states. The vote unfolded against escalating turmoil in the
00:58Middle East that has led to massive displacement in the region. In Lebanon alone, over one million
01:04people have been forced to flee their homes, according to the UN's International Organization for Migration.
01:11Although large-scale onward migration to Europe remains unlikely, the EU is moving towards
01:16stricter migration policies. In this context, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz faced widespread backlash
01:23after stating that over the longer term of the next three years, 80% of the Syrians currently in Germany
01:29should return to their homeland. What does the European Parliament's rightward shift on migration mean for
01:37the future of asylum? And can the EU balance stricter migration policies with growing human rights concerns?
01:47They're the questions that we have for our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:52Lena Dupont, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party. She serves on the Committee on Civil Liberties,
01:59Justice and Home Affairs.
02:01Regarding returns in the third country concept, she said,
02:04The EU must speed up the rejection of clearly unfounded asylum applications. By applying the safe third country concept
02:11and an EU list of safe countries of origin, asylum procedures become faster and more efficient while protecting those in
02:18real need.
02:19Juan Fernando López Aguilar, a Spanish MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.
02:24He serves in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs and is one of the European Parliament's
02:29most influential figures on migration and asylum policy. Before being an MEP, he served as Spain's Minister of Justice.
02:37Migration is a fact. It is not a threat. And walls are not the answer, said López Aguilar, highlighting the
02:44need to manage migration while respecting human rights.
02:48Juan Fernando López Aguilar and Lena Dupont, welcome to The Ring.
02:53The aim here is to give our viewers a glimpse of your debates inside the European Parliament, so you should
02:58feel right at home.
02:59So look, let's pick up on that vote. On these return hubs, you voted in favour. You say it's the
03:04missing piece of the puzzle. Why?
03:06Well, because it is the missing piece of the puzzle. We invested quite heavily in the previous term in the
03:12so-called asylum and migration policy pact,
03:14so the new Pact on Asylum and Migration. And that was always the missing part to that pact. It has
03:19been part of it before.
03:21It was taken out for political reasons because we were not able to find an agreement.
03:25And in this term, we really need to make sure that this last missing piece of the pact is indeed
03:31implemented.
03:32But on the other hand, we've seen bodies like the Council of Europe warning that these hubs could create human
03:37rights black holes.
03:39Juan Fernando, what is your view here?
03:40Of course, we are concerned. Return hubs are not the answer, particularly when they are outside the borders of the
03:48European Union.
03:49Return hubs have no guarantees of respect to fundamental rights. They are not consistent with EU law.
03:53They are not consistent with the architecture we put in place when we adopted the Migration and Asylum Pact.
03:58And of course, they give the chance to member states to, for an economic compensation to some kind of a
04:05ruler outside the European Union, keep migrants out of our sight.
04:10And that's not the idea.
04:11Lena, how do you address these concerns?
04:14Well, first of all, your concerns were not just basically neglected or ignored.
04:18There have been part of the discussions. You have been and your group have been on the table as well.
04:22But you decided to leave. You also did not support the compromise, for example, from the liberal rapporteur.
04:29And that was also not only about return stocks. Indeed, return hubs are in there. But still in the Parliament's
04:35mandate, we have the article on the fundamental rights, which are the basic assumption for the whole concept as such.
04:42We are speaking about security cases. We are speaking about really bringing the resources of the member states together with
04:48that of the European Union to make sure that afterwards more than one in five returnees actually is returned, which
04:55is the current case.
04:56But how can you be sure there will be oversight?
04:58On the return hubs and such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements, which are bilateral or trilateral, multilateral.
05:05But do you really deep down trust these arrangements? Will it not be more kind of out of sight, out
05:10of mind?
05:10Well, if you look at the debate as such on return hubs, for example, when you're also debating with international
05:16organizations, they're also not saying it's not feasible.
05:19They're saying under certain conditions, it is workable. And it stems from the fact that we know that most of
05:24the people actually do want to return to their region, to their country, if it's possible.
05:30But if it's not possible and there are other opportunities in the vicinity of their home region, it should be
05:35feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:37But you fear people could be left in legal limbo.
05:40Of course. Let's make it clear. We socialists, we try to be part of the equation, but we're left aside.
05:48And the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far right groups of the European Parliament, which are three
05:55far right groups, and they were the ones to adopt this instrument.
05:59Of course, we understand that member states are concerned about returns, but return hubs, absolutely not, because they are externalizing
06:09the management of the whole issue.
06:11Besides, there are no guarantees to protect fundamental rights when they're outside the European Union, because those third states are
06:19not bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations.
06:23Besides, they're extending the time frame. There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of
06:31the...
06:32You're nodding your head in this agreement here, but Juan Fernando López, have a point. In the past, you worked
06:37a lot very closely with the socialists in this European Parliament, but now you're working much closer with the far
06:44right.
06:44Well, let me do... probably get two things straight here. A, this question about the detention is not connected to
06:50return hubs. It's a different part of the legislation that we were discussing upon.
06:55And for security cases, I do think that there are credible reasons and credible examples in all member states why
07:02a prolonged detention sometimes can be not only necessary, but needed.
07:06Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns of the member states. The mandate we
07:13put forward for a vote is based on the council's position, on the commission proposal, where we thought that we
07:19needed to protect specifically the European angle of that proposal, and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced
07:26for a very long time.
07:28So known positions of ours, if we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote, because someone else
07:34might jump on it, then actually we do have a bit of a difficult political discussion.
07:39And I very much respect the position of the SND here. I know that it also has been a tough
07:44negotiations for them, but they were the ones deciding to leave the table. It was not us.
07:48We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority to adopt the Migration and Asylum Pact.
07:55But the thing is that ever since this mandate started, there's been a new majority, the EPP leaning with three
08:02far-right political groups, and they have been the ones to somehow legalize the so-called Meloni practice with Albania.
08:10But it's not only Albania. It can be whatever, third country, maybe in Africa. Why should a third country ruler
08:17accept that kind of a deal from a member state?
08:20Only because of economic compensation? Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights involved, to protect the minors, to protect
08:27the economic component minors, fundamental rights involved?
08:29Are there any legal considerations which are actually considered with the architecture that we finally adopted? No, the answer is
08:36not.
08:37Are there? In your view, are there?
08:37Of course, we didn't have best to meet our concerns, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis. And that, of course, allows the European Union,
08:49the member states on their bilateral or multilateral level to really follow up.
08:54We have the attention and actually also, if needed, and I think that this is something that should be taken
08:59into consideration, also the support by the international organizations.
09:03So there will be a lot of emphasis. And describe a return hub to our viewers. How would it look
09:07like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now, together with the commission as part of the,
09:12let's say, integral approach also to our third country corporation.
09:15And again, we're investing quite heavily in third countries, not only when it comes to border management and asylum capacities,
09:22but, for example, when it comes to economic prosperity, when it comes to fundamental rights and so on and so
09:27forth.
09:27Does that not reassure you that the commission and the member states together will design how these hubs should look?
09:31Not enough. Of course, we are aware that as to the so-called non-eligible people to stay, they are
09:39human beings. And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object to that kind of a lexicology because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group right from
09:55the outset.
09:56Legal pathways should be open. Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas, legal pathways so that they don't have to risk their lives
10:03to make it irregularly to the European Union.
10:06Once they are here, of course, you have to tell the difference between those who are entitled to some kind
10:13of human rights consideration,
10:14particularly in common minors and women with minors and families in special conditions so that they are given the proper
10:24treatment.
10:25But as to putting them out of our sight and making a deal with some third country ruler so that
10:32they can be somehow piled up for indefinite period of time in some return hubs with no fundamental rights and
10:41with no binding legal considerations as to EU law.
10:45That's absolutely against the mandate of the European Union to respect international law, which includes humanitarian law, which includes human
10:53rights as a first condition of EU external action.
10:58And the European Union, of course, fancies itself as a cheerleader of fundamental rights.
11:03Let me stop you there as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers to get a real flavour of the European Parliament's chamber where MEPs ask
11:15questions directly to each other and sometimes it gets heated.
11:18So I would like to start with ladies first.
11:20Lena Dupont, you can address your very first question to Juan López Aguilar.
11:24Yes, for example, how do you actually get that together that if Spain is going on such a huge regularisation
11:30programme that it will have repercussions for the rest of the European Union?
11:35And then at the same time say we're looking for European solutions here.
11:38First of all, what Spain has done is not unprecedented.
11:41Many member states have resorted to regularisation.
11:43And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49And it's a positive approach.
11:50Rightly so.
11:50Everyone, everyone is agreeing on that Spain is now the locomotive, the number one locomotive when it comes to economic
11:59growth and job creation precisely because it has an alternative positive view to migration as opposed to the negative approach,
12:10which is the predominant, which is the prevailing site to migration and contaminates not only migrants, but also asylum seekers.
12:17So the thing is that when you have a positive approach to migration, when you give the chance to those
12:22who are already staying on Spanish soil and Spanish territory and you give the chance to regularise, you're enhancing not
12:30only their human rights, but also the economy and job creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer or would you like a follow up?
12:39Well, it just basically creates another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing.
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me it's more or less a sign of an overstretched capacity if you need to regularise things because you're
12:50not able to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates for so long and of course I understand it's a divisive issue.
12:57But having said this, there is nothing in the right and conservative rhetoric that does not lead to pull factor.
13:06Everything is pull factor to the negative approach to migration.
13:10When you treat them as human beings, that's pull factor.
13:14When you regularise them, that's pull factor.
13:17When you incorporate into the job market, that's pull factor.
13:20Apparently the only answer would be expelling them out or having them out of our side, whatever the cost, whatever
13:27it takes.
13:27And of course that leads to an utter contradiction with the values and the EU law which you should be
13:34standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando Lopez, your opportunity now to address the question to Lena Dupont.
13:39Lena, I've known you for years.
13:41Are you happy that actually this return regulation was adopted by the EPP with the far right?
13:48I can picture the far right standing up in a standing ovation to themselves, happy of what they did.
13:55Are you happy with that legalisation of the Meloni practices, of externalising the migration management, of giving the third countries
14:05the chance to pile migrants and asylum seekers altogether in indefinite time, only for the sake of reassuring the member
14:14states that we will be somehow countering back the numbers of migrants which keep knocking on our doors?
14:21Are you happy?
14:23Well, of course, as you can say, it was a difficult decision when we see that only one in five
14:29returnees, only 20% of those who do not have a right to stay within the European Union are still
14:34staying in the European Union.
14:36And it was always an integral part to the pact, because on the one side of the medal, you have
14:41the protection of those who are in need and granted protection.
14:45In the midst of the medal, you have the solidarity of the European Union taking care of responsibility and solidarity
14:51together.
14:51And on the other side of that coin, you have the return policies, because the ones who do not have
14:57a right to stay within the European Union, and this is not against a positive approach to migration or a
15:02treatment as non-humanitarian.
15:05It's just the simple following our own rules, which has always been part of the pact, basically. And you know
15:11that because when we started negotiation on the pact, there were 12 regulations in there.
15:15And just because I'm aware you haven't answered the question. So I think you want to ask a follow up.
15:18Let me make one point clear. Yes, the rate of returnees is low, but it's because of the lack of
15:25an architecture, diplomatic architecture of agreements being negotiated with third countries by the European Union in all, which has got
15:33a single legal personality.
15:35And of course, those returns should be dignified, consistent with the fundamental rights and human rights involved and preferably voluntary.
15:42OK, we've heard from our MEPs. Now it's time to bring in a new argument to this discussion.
15:51I would like to bring in the voice of Eve Getty, director of Amnesty International's EU office.
15:56She said that this vote marks a growing trend towards increasingly harmful, exclusionary and draconian policies on migration with worrying
16:05repercussions for due process and evidence based policymaking.
16:09Far from reducing irregularity, these proposals risk trapping more people in precarious situation.
16:15Lena Dupont, that is the concerns that NGOs are having.
16:18Well, again, we are speaking about a process that has been followed through from the asylum application onwards to the
16:25rejection of the asylum claim and forwards to the return procedure.
16:30So it's it's not like we are just basically rejecting people on unfounded base.
16:36But again, it's in the pact itself. It is said that a fact of protection needs to be there.
16:42And this is a not only a moral obligation, but it's also a treaty obligation, a law obligation for every
16:48member state of the European Union.
16:50And this is the principle of everything that can be done under the arrangements or agreements.
16:54And we've heard from Charlie Weimers, that's the Swedish negotiator from the right wing party, the European conservatives and reformers
17:01hailing this as the new consensus in Europe, chanting the new era of deportations has begun.
17:07This is why NGOs are so concerned, Juan Fernando.
17:09I reject that kind of a rhetoric for sure. And I agree with the concerns that have been expressed by
17:16NGOs as to the flaws of this new policy and legislation that the European Union is putting in place with
17:23the cooperation of the right with the far right.
17:24It is the contrary. The thing is that for member states to have agreements with third countries, it deters the
17:34very possibility of the European Union deploying a diplomacy in itself.
17:38And it should be the European Union negotiating with countries of transit and origin, so that that cooperation with countries
17:46of transit at origin would have as a result, first giving opportunities for people to stay where they are born
17:54instead of doing whatever, even resorting to human trafficking and international criminal organizations to make it to the European Union.
18:02But once they are in the European Union, I insist, they are subject to the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which
18:10protects not only European citizens, but all human beings under EU law.
18:15And they have been applied EU law, they have been implemented EU law in the worst scenario, in the worst
18:22possibility you might think of, which is precisely that member states are now legalizing those practices with third countries with
18:31no legally binding agreements, whatever.
18:36No, no legally binding agreements, just some kind of a deal suffices to keep human beings out of the European
18:43Union without human rights consideration.
18:45But point, just let me, also from my understanding, because I fully agree with you on the point of the
18:51diplomacy, actually.
18:52And I fully agree also with you on the redemption of that language, because we're speaking about human beings.
18:59Whatever we did with the asylum and migration pact, again, returns being integral part of it, we're speaking about human
19:05beings.
19:05So this is the first thing.
19:07Second thing, I agree with you on the migration diplomacy.
19:09But if now member states, together with the European Commission, or bilaterally, trilaterally, are actually implementing those treaties and corporations
19:18that you called for with the migration diplomacy, then how can it be bad?
19:22Because it is based on treaties and agreements and arrangements that are not only enforceable, but also are able to
19:29follow up.
19:29If we want to create more possibilities for people to stay in an area where they have a perspective, where
19:37they're close to their region, where they have safe and stable conditions, before making the route to the European Union.
19:44Why shouldn't we do that?
19:45We've heard from our MEPs.
19:47Now it is time to take a short break here on The Ring.
19:49But we'll be back very soon with some more Political Punch.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:06I'm joined by the MEPs Juan Fernando López Aguiar and Lena Dupont.
20:10And this week we're focusing on the topic of migration and the point of return hubs.
20:15And we wanted to share this data with you.
20:18480,000 people were ordered to leave the European Union each year, but only 20% or 25% are
20:25actually returned.
20:26And according to Eurostat, in 2024, it was Germany, Spain, Italy and France that received 70 to 75% of
20:34all EU asylum claims.
20:36And this comes as 1 million asylum cases are pending across the European Union.
20:41So why, Juan Fernando, do you think this is happening?
20:45What is causing these delays?
20:46Because you need arrangements, agreements, legally binding agreements with countries of origin.
20:53Not with any country.
20:54Because if we didn't have these figures, you wouldn't need the return hubs.
20:56This return regulation lacks every meaningful link with a country of origin.
21:02It doesn't matter where do you belong as long as there's someone willing to keep you out of our sight.
21:09Meaning that maybe some sub-Saharan Africa coming actually from, let's say, Mali or let's say Ghana can be returned
21:20to whatever country, to Libya, to Morocco, to Tunisia, as long as the ruler is willing to have them.
21:29Is that fair? Of course not.
21:32What we need is a legal architecture.
21:33But can you understand people's concerns with that data?
21:35What we need is a legal architecture with countries of origin so that you make certain that you're actually returning
21:41someone to the country where that particular someone actually came from.
21:46But you, on the other hand, believe that the return hubs will increase efficiency and that by, in a couple
21:51of years, those figures will be very different.
21:53Well, first of all, again, return hubs is not the only thing that is in the return regulation as such.
21:58We are also speaking about member states streamlining their procedures, helping each other out with resources, taking European...
22:04Do you trust member states will do that?
22:06I mean...
22:07Well, member states are the ones asking for that.
22:09So I assume they will also then follow up on your own proposals and policies...
22:12Because implementation is always the big challenge here, right?
22:15One thing is promising something.
22:16Of course it is.
22:17Implementation is the devil in the detail.
22:19And we will also make sure politically that we will follow up from the European perspective on member states, fulfilling
22:25their not only implementation, but really also then driving up what they have been asking for.
22:29But again, I mean, Juan, your idea, and to a certain extent I do subscribe to that, but that would
22:35have already worked in the current cases, because there is the international obligation to take back your own national citizens.
22:41And this is what third countries are not doing in some cases.
22:45So we need a leverage.
22:46Of course it is to the best use if we do it together at European level.
22:49But we also know that member states have to do some links to third countries where they have a good
22:55cooperation already.
22:56And the last point actually on that, it's about, and this is the part of the agreement or the arrangement
23:01then, to really put forward perspectives for the people there.
23:04So this is an integral part of the policy as such.
23:07Let me tell you something.
23:08I chaired the Committee of Liberal Justice and Home Affairs for 10 years, and I represented the European Parliament, the
23:13Council of Ministers of Interior.
23:15I heard them saying, live, fly them to Rwanda.
23:19And my question was, why Rwanda?
23:22Because only do you think they are black, they are indistinct in Rwanda and whatever African country, no matter where
23:28they belong to?
23:28The thing is that we need actually to change our look, act more positively, and of course exert European diplomacy
23:38to come to terms with countries of origin and, needless to say, transit too,
23:43so that agreements are binding in the legal way and consistent with EU law.
23:51Not any agreement would suffice.
23:54And this language, Lena Dupont, that we're hearing inside ministries' meetings and used by politicians is having an impact on
23:59society.
23:59We've seen an increase in racist attacks and xenophobic attacks in countries like Germany.
24:03Well, this was mainly because for far too long, actually, both at European level and also at a certain extent
24:09at national level, we tend to not address the concerns of the citizens.
24:14And there is an overstretch in capacities in almost all member states, which is why it is so important that
24:20we have a distinction between asylum and migration,
24:24because the people you're addressing are completely different, the capacities, the structures you need are completely different.
24:31And I think that this is one of the starting points.
24:33And what people experienced in the past is that people felt the need that actually we had lost control.
24:39What we have been proposing here, both in the pact and with the mandate of the parliament on returns,
24:44is that we put forward a structured and ordered, a humane way of organising asylum and migration.
24:51And it is now time for the fifth and the final round.
24:58So now it's time for something a little bit different.
25:00I'm going to be asking our MEPs just one question and you can only answer yes or no.
25:06OK, let's begin.
25:09Are current EU returns too slow?
25:11Yes or no?
25:12Yes.
25:13Yes or no?
25:14Yes.
25:15You both agree on that one.
25:16Should EU countries set up return hubs abroad?
25:19Yes or no?
25:20Yes.
25:21No.
25:21Yes or no?
25:21No.
25:22Very clear no.
25:22Is irregular migration a threat today to the European Union?
25:26Léna Dupont, yes or no?
25:28Not as such.
25:29Yes or no?
25:30No, definitely not.
25:32It's a fact.
25:33And asylum is a right.
25:34But it needs to be in an ordered and structured way.
25:38Should rejected asylum seekers be returned to safe third countries?
25:41Yes or no?
25:41Yes.
25:43No.
25:44Should miners be exempt from return hubs?
25:47Yes or no?
25:48Yes.
25:48OK.
25:49According to the mandate.
25:51Should the European Union prioritize efficiency over individual claims?
25:55Yes or no?
25:55Yes.
25:56No.
25:57Should Frontex have greater powers?
26:00Yes or no?
26:01In the returns process as such?
26:03Yes.
26:04It should have a mandate to cooperate better with third countries.
26:08Is the EU's migration commissioner doing a good job?
26:12Magnus Brunner, yes or no?
26:13Yes.
26:14Well, well, well, well.
26:18I mean, it's not personal, but I can only be sorry to see that his proposals have been endorsed
26:25with standing ovation by the far right.
26:28Could the war in the Middle East trigger a new migration wave here in the European Union?
26:33Yes or no?
26:33We are monitoring very actively the situation in the region and we are prepared.
26:39Yes.
26:40Yes.
26:40And we shouldn't panic.
26:42We can handle it.
26:43Well, that was my next question.
26:44Is the European Union prepared for this scenario?
26:46Yes or no?
26:47Not in the current circumstances.
26:49Not in the current so-called relation of forces.
26:52But according to EU capacity, for sure it should.
26:56So we shouldn't panic.
26:58We can handle it as long as we do it according to EU values and EU law.
27:02What is of utmost importance is that we closely cooperate with our countries,
27:07our partner countries that we have in the region.
27:09Final question.
27:10Did you agree with anything you heard from Lena Dupont?
27:13Yes or no?
27:14Yes.
27:15And did you agree with anything you heard from Juan Fernando López Aguilar?
27:18Yes or no?
27:18Well, not with everything, but with anything, yes.
27:20Yeah.
27:20Well, we give a glimpse there of how you actually can meet compromises here in the European Parliament.
27:25Lena Dupont and Juan Fernando López Aguilar, thank you so much for joining us here on The Ring.
27:29And thank you so much for tuning in.
27:32You can write us your views or comments at thering at yournews.com.
27:36That is our email address.
27:37Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:39Let's see.
27:51Transcription by CastingWords
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