Prosecuting Evil 2018

Chicago

Watch Prosecuting Evil 2018 - Chicago on Dailymotion

Transcript

00:00:24I carry with me the burden of having seen man's

00:00:28humanity to man in ways which are incredible to a rational mind and that will always remain with me

00:00:39I am Ben Florens

00:00:4370 years ago I was a prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials in what was certainly the biggest murder

00:00:51trial in history Ben Florens is an icon really in international criminal justice we're talking

00:01:00about a man whose career spans seven decades

00:01:06this trial but what was most significant about it was it gave us an insight into the mentality of

00:01:14mass murderers they had murdered over a million people including hundreds of thousands of children

00:01:20in cold blood Ben is the personification of the international do-gooder somebody who has no goal

00:01:30in life other than to bring justice to an unjust world my dad used to ask us and I kid

00:01:38you not

00:01:39around the dinner table every night what have you done for mankind today war can make murderers out of

00:01:50otherwise decent people it may come as a shock to some of the viewers who perceive these mass murderers

00:01:57as horrible beasts not so that's such a young age in such a critical moment in in in modern history

00:02:07to be in the thick of things to do the right thing with conviction and courage

00:02:12and to have witnessed what you had witnessed and turn that into a positive contribution for the better of humanity

00:02:18it's it's really something to admire and try to emulate

00:02:23the impact of war itself on people affected me so that i wanted to stop war making

00:02:31and have in fact devoted most of my life in that effort to trying to create a more humane world

00:02:40his humanity and his compassion and his fearless commitment to justice all of these years

00:02:47make him one of the most important figures of our time

00:02:54so

00:03:02so

00:03:04so

00:03:32I am mindful of the fact

00:03:34that the world has always been torn apart

00:03:37by the type of horror which is featured on TV.

00:03:41But I'm also always mindful of the fact

00:03:44that we are, believe it or not,

00:03:46making very significant progress

00:03:48toward creating a more humane and peaceful world.

00:03:57Okay.

00:03:58Ben Ferenc, welcome, it says.

00:04:02Ah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:04:05Ben is somebody who is very driven,

00:04:08who is extremely passionate

00:04:09and has an absolutely unshakable belief

00:04:13in the rule of law and in international law.

00:04:15That's what drives him.

00:04:17He is somebody who thrives on this passion

00:04:22and thrives on the effort

00:04:24to try to move things forward that seem impossible.

00:04:29When I was a boy or a student,

00:04:32there was no such thing as human rights.

00:04:35There was no such thing as international courts.

00:04:38No one heard of the word genocide for one thing.

00:04:41And I was the first, I believe,

00:04:43to use that word in the opening paragraph

00:04:46of an indictment where I was the chief prosecutor

00:04:48at Nuremberg.

00:04:49Benjamin Ferenc is the titan

00:04:52of international criminal prosecutions.

00:04:57He really established an incredible mandate

00:05:02for international criminal responsibility

00:05:06for the commission of crimes against humanity

00:05:10and war crimes.

00:05:12He laid out a legal process

00:05:15that has become a very important one,

00:05:18taking us into the 21st century.

00:05:24I'd never tried a case.

00:05:25I'd never been in a criminal court in my life.

00:05:27I was 27 years old.

00:05:30But I knew at the beginning

00:05:32that this trial,

00:05:33I don't have any significance at all.

00:05:35It has to set a model

00:05:36of what you should and shouldn't do.

00:05:40This is the Ordre National de la Légion d'Honneur.

00:05:44Le Président de la République Française

00:05:47names me a chevalier de la Légion d'Honneur.

00:05:50That gold medal that you see hanging there

00:05:53is their Medal of Freedom,

00:05:55which I was particularly glad to receive

00:05:57because the previous recipient of that

00:06:00had been Nelson Mandela,

00:06:02and I was a strong admirer of his.

00:06:07I was told that I'd make a good lawyer

00:06:11or a good crook.

00:06:13And I didn't quite understand it

00:06:15because I didn't know what a lawyer was.

00:06:17But I knew what the crook was,

00:06:18and I didn't care for it.

00:06:20At any time.

00:06:21So I think that may have tilted me

00:06:23toward wanting to be a lawyer,

00:06:25whatever that meant.

00:06:29My sister was born in the same bed

00:06:32I was later born in.

00:06:35When she was born,

00:06:37she was a Hungarian.

00:06:39When I was born,

00:06:40about 18 months later,

00:06:41I was a Romanian.

00:06:44It doesn't really matter what you call the country.

00:06:47What matters is how you treat the people in the country.

00:06:50And in both Hungary and Romania,

00:06:53they persecuted the Jews.

00:06:54So it was prudent for my parents to get out if they could.

00:07:01We traveled third class

00:07:04because there was no fourth class.

00:07:06Sleeping on an open deck

00:07:08in midwinter

00:07:10in 1920

00:07:11was not easy.

00:07:14I was crying all the time

00:07:16because my mother had no milk.

00:07:19My father was being driven crazy

00:07:21with this noise.

00:07:23He couldn't sleep.

00:07:24He was very tempted

00:07:25to throw me overboard.

00:07:26And there's been

00:07:27some indication

00:07:29that he would have

00:07:30had he not been interrupted

00:07:31by my uncle

00:07:32who was traveling with us.

00:07:37My father was trained

00:07:38as an apprentice shoemaker.

00:07:40He thought when he gets to New York,

00:07:42he'll be able to make boots

00:07:44for the people.

00:07:45No one told him.

00:07:45There are no cowboys in New York

00:07:47and no cows.

00:07:49So he found himself

00:07:51unemployable,

00:07:52no money,

00:07:53no friends.

00:07:56It was a tough life,

00:07:58but they didn't know it

00:07:59because where they'd come from,

00:08:01it would suffer.

00:08:02So it was an improvement

00:08:04no matter what.

00:08:08This was an area

00:08:10known as Hell's Kitchen.

00:08:12It got that name

00:08:13because it was a high crime

00:08:15density area.

00:08:16When I became a criminologist,

00:08:18I found that out

00:08:19by seeing maps

00:08:20of where the most crime was

00:08:22in parts of the world.

00:08:23It was right at home.

00:08:26It was a tough neighborhood,

00:08:28Irish and Italian.

00:08:31There was a lot of gang warfare

00:08:33going on,

00:08:34but there was no guns,

00:08:36no knives.

00:08:37It was just, you know,

00:08:38beating each other up

00:08:39or playing craps

00:08:40on the sidewalk.

00:08:44I didn't speak English at all.

00:08:47I spoke Yiddish with the mother tongue.

00:08:50My father took me to school,

00:08:52public school,

00:08:53to enroll me.

00:08:53They wouldn't take me

00:08:54because I was too small.

00:08:56I couldn't speak English.

00:08:57And they said,

00:08:59come back next year.

00:09:00Next year,

00:09:01they said the same thing.

00:09:02So I finally ended up

00:09:04when my parents were divorced

00:09:05and I went to live

00:09:06with an aunt in Brooklyn.

00:09:08That's where I started

00:09:09my educational career.

00:09:14My eighth grade teacher

00:09:16in public school 80

00:09:18in the Bronx,

00:09:19I was then living back again

00:09:21with my mother

00:09:21and my stepfather.

00:09:23She asked me

00:09:24to bring my father

00:09:25and mother in.

00:09:26She wanted to talk to them.

00:09:28and we had

00:09:29a little conference.

00:09:32The teacher explained

00:09:34that this is a gifted boy

00:09:37and he should go to college.

00:09:39Well, certainly,

00:09:40she didn't know

00:09:41and I didn't know

00:09:41what a gifted boy meant

00:09:43because we never got any gifts

00:09:44and I didn't know anybody

00:09:46who ever went to college.

00:09:48This was beyond

00:09:49our knowledge range.

00:09:52And my mother said,

00:09:53well, whatever you want to do,

00:09:56you know,

00:09:56she will accommodate that.

00:10:02The Townsend-Harris High School,

00:10:03which was the only one

00:10:04with kind in the country,

00:10:06where if you graduated from there,

00:10:07you were automatically admitted

00:10:08to City College.

00:10:12I had never had to study before.

00:10:15I heard something

00:10:16and I knew it.

00:10:17It was just, you know,

00:10:18it seemed to be quite automatic.

00:10:20But when I got

00:10:21to this advanced high school,

00:10:23I flunked the two subjects

00:10:25of French and algebra.

00:10:27So I found out

00:10:30there was a movie house

00:10:32featuring foreign films

00:10:33right near where we live

00:10:35and I went there

00:10:36and fell in love

00:10:37with a French actress,

00:10:39Danielle Dariot,

00:10:40and she was being wooed

00:10:42by Charles Boyer.

00:10:43And I could hear them

00:10:45and I could read in English

00:10:46what they were saying.

00:10:47That was a wonderful teaching tool,

00:10:49except I came out

00:10:50speaking like Charles Boyer.

00:10:52And all that.

00:10:57And that was very good

00:10:59in French.

00:11:00It spoke like a Frenchman.

00:11:05City College

00:11:06was known as

00:11:07the poor man's Harvard,

00:11:09actually.

00:11:09I didn't know that

00:11:09at the time.

00:11:10But it was a very tough school

00:11:12for a lot of tough kids,

00:11:13mostly Jewish kids

00:11:14who couldn't afford

00:11:17a college education.

00:11:19It was a very good school

00:11:20and it taught me there,

00:11:22first of all,

00:11:23I have to study.

00:11:24Secondly,

00:11:25there's a lot I have to learn.

00:11:26And I think I did.

00:11:31You had to decide

00:11:32what you wanted to do

00:11:33while you were still

00:11:34in college.

00:11:35And most of my friends

00:11:36were going into civil service

00:11:38or something like that.

00:11:39I wanted to go

00:11:41into crime prevention

00:11:42because I'd seen enough crime

00:11:44and I've seen juvenile crime.

00:11:46So I was focusing

00:11:47on juvenile delinquency.

00:11:53I didn't know anything

00:11:55about college,

00:11:56about law schools.

00:11:58And I inquired,

00:12:00what's the best school?

00:12:01And I heard that Harvard

00:12:03is the best school,

00:12:04not Brooklyn.

00:12:05All right,

00:12:06so I sent a letter

00:12:07to Harvard applying.

00:12:08And lo and behold,

00:12:10I was accepted.

00:12:12I had done so well

00:12:14on my criminal law exam

00:12:16that they gave me

00:12:17a scholarship based on that.

00:12:19Otherwise,

00:12:19I could never have afforded.

00:12:22I realized that there

00:12:24were different classes

00:12:24of people

00:12:25and the students

00:12:26who got up and said,

00:12:27sir,

00:12:28every time they asked

00:12:28them a question,

00:12:29which seemed to be

00:12:30very strange,

00:12:31and who wore loafers

00:12:34and no socks,

00:12:36or Argyle socks,

00:12:37and went punting

00:12:38on the Charles

00:12:38on the weekend.

00:12:39This was another world.

00:12:41And they had fraternities

00:12:42and things like that.

00:12:44I had a few friends

00:12:45from City College

00:12:46who also went to Harvard

00:12:48and I piled around

00:12:49with them.

00:12:50But that was another

00:12:52social world

00:12:53at Harvard itself.

00:12:56I found a program

00:12:57in the government

00:12:58where if you were working

00:12:59for a professor,

00:13:00they gave you a stipend.

00:13:01I had no money.

00:13:02I had no money at all.

00:13:04The Roscoe Pound,

00:13:04I particularly admired.

00:13:06He was noted

00:13:07for his jurisprudence.

00:13:08He was an old man.

00:13:10He could hardly see.

00:13:11He had an eye shade.

00:13:13And I wanted to work for him.

00:13:15He said,

00:13:16no, I can't accept that.

00:13:17It has to go through my brain.

00:13:18He said, his brain.

00:13:19I can't get it

00:13:20go through somebody else's brain.

00:13:22So he turned me down.

00:13:23So I went to see

00:13:25the next professor

00:13:26that I was interested in

00:13:27was Sheldon Gluck.

00:13:28He was the only one

00:13:29who taught criminology.

00:13:31And his first question,

00:13:32how much is it going to cost?

00:13:33I said, it's free.

00:13:34He said, I'll take it.

00:13:37So I became an assistant to him.

00:13:40And when the war

00:13:41had broken out,

00:13:42he began to study war crimes.

00:13:44So the first assignment

00:13:45was give me everything

00:13:46in the Harvard Law Library

00:13:47which relates to war crimes.

00:13:49That became more relevant

00:13:51because I suspect,

00:13:52I don't know,

00:13:53that when the army

00:13:54turned to him,

00:13:55he was consulting

00:13:56with the Pentagon.

00:13:57They turned to him

00:13:58because he'd written

00:13:58these books on war crimes.

00:14:01Then he said,

00:14:02go find Benny.

00:14:02He's out there somewhere.

00:14:04And they tapped me

00:14:06and they sent me

00:14:07to Patton's headquarters.

00:14:08And they said,

00:14:08your name has been

00:14:09forwarded from Washington.

00:14:10So I can only imagine

00:14:12that it came

00:14:12from Sheldon Gluck.

00:14:24What opened my eyes

00:14:26was, of course,

00:14:26the headlines.

00:14:27They were murdering

00:14:29all the Jews.

00:14:30I said,

00:14:31how can I sabotage

00:14:32the German government?

00:14:33And so what I did

00:14:35was I wrote

00:14:36to the local consulate

00:14:37and I said,

00:14:37please,

00:14:38I'd like to disseminate

00:14:40some of your literature

00:14:41to justify Hitler

00:14:42and so on.

00:14:43And they sent me

00:14:44piles and piles

00:14:45of propaganda,

00:14:47absolute propaganda.

00:14:48I took them

00:14:49and threw them

00:14:49in the garbage.

00:14:50That was my form

00:14:51of sabotage

00:14:52against the German government.

00:15:00The war broke out

00:15:01and I went

00:15:03with everybody

00:15:03I knew

00:15:04to try to volunteer

00:15:05into different branches

00:15:06of the service.

00:15:07And most of them,

00:15:08they wouldn't take me

00:15:09at all.

00:15:11As an airport pilot,

00:15:13they said I couldn't

00:15:13reach the pedals.

00:15:14A navigator,

00:15:15they said,

00:15:16if I were told

00:15:17to bomb Berlin,

00:15:18I'd end up in Tokyo.

00:15:19As a paratrooper,

00:15:20they said,

00:15:21you'll go up

00:15:21instead of down.

00:15:23So there was

00:15:24a desperate need

00:15:25for my skills.

00:15:26I was furious,

00:15:27absolutely furious,

00:15:28because it wouldn't

00:15:29take me.

00:15:30I asked myself,

00:15:31what can I do

00:15:32to be of most help?

00:15:34And because I could

00:15:36speak French

00:15:37like a Frenchman,

00:15:38I thought,

00:15:39if they can drop me

00:15:40behind the lines

00:15:40in occupied France

00:15:42and teach me

00:15:43how to use dynamite,

00:15:44I'll be able

00:15:45to blow up

00:15:45all the German trains

00:15:47and communication lines.

00:15:48I wish they were

00:15:49back in Berlin.

00:15:51And ended up finally

00:15:52as a buck private

00:15:53in the artillery

00:15:54about which I knew

00:15:55absolutely nothing.

00:15:56As a typist

00:15:57in the supply room,

00:15:58I couldn't even type

00:15:59and they never

00:16:00taught me how to type.

00:16:01So the dumbest things

00:16:02you could possibly do

00:16:03with a guy

00:16:04whose eagerness hurt,

00:16:06they did to me.

00:16:08And I have never

00:16:09forgiven them.

00:16:13We were trained

00:16:16to shoot down

00:16:17high-flying planes.

00:16:19That was going

00:16:20to be our mission.

00:16:23I am of the firm

00:16:25opinion today still

00:16:27that we shut down

00:16:28more American

00:16:29and British planes

00:16:31than German planes.

00:16:33I had his assignment,

00:16:35and we all did,

00:16:36when we see

00:16:38an American plane

00:16:39coming over

00:16:39and he doesn't give us

00:16:40the correct signal,

00:16:41friend or foe.

00:16:42But when you hit the plane

00:16:44and it explodes,

00:16:45I never go to see fireworks.

00:16:47I've seen them.

00:16:48The whole sky is brightened.

00:16:51And then we go,

00:16:52each one of us,

00:16:53soldiers carrying

00:16:53a little cardboard box,

00:16:55walking hip to hip,

00:16:56trying to find a piece

00:16:58of finger

00:16:58to identify the body.

00:17:01Find out who the hell

00:17:02it was.

00:17:02We knew it was

00:17:03an American plane

00:17:04by that time,

00:17:05but you've got to report

00:17:07the next of kin

00:17:07that the guy's dead.

00:17:11Smash to smithereens.

00:17:13The engine would still be,

00:17:14you know,

00:17:14partly intact,

00:17:15but to find a finger

00:17:17was already

00:17:19a great discovery.

00:17:19I found several fingers.

00:17:21I find a clump of hair.

00:17:22You put it in the box.

00:17:23You send it back

00:17:24to the Agent General

00:17:25and work it over

00:17:26and notify the next of kin.

00:17:28That's war.

00:17:33I tell you,

00:17:34I didn't stop

00:17:35and ask myself

00:17:36what's my emotional state.

00:17:38I asked myself

00:17:39what's next?

00:17:40Move, move.

00:17:41You know?

00:17:45No time for emotion.

00:17:47No time for,

00:17:48you know,

00:17:49being shocked

00:17:49for tears

00:17:50or anything like that.

00:17:57My final assignments

00:17:59in the Army

00:18:00was to be

00:18:01a war crimes investigator

00:18:02entering the concentration camps

00:18:05as they were liberated

00:18:06in order to collect evidence

00:18:08for the crimes.

00:18:12We get a report

00:18:14into headquarters,

00:18:16tank battalion so-and-so

00:18:17has come upon a scene

00:18:19where there are people

00:18:21walking out of

00:18:22what looks like

00:18:23a war camp of some kind.

00:18:25They're all dressed

00:18:25in something like pajamas

00:18:27and looks like

00:18:28they're all starving.

00:18:29That was about

00:18:30the gist of the report.

00:18:32I get to the colonel.

00:18:34The colonel has it

00:18:34to Forenz

00:18:35or to a captain

00:18:36to Forenz.

00:18:37I get in the jeep

00:18:38and off I go.

00:18:45My dad is a guy

00:18:46who's been traumatized

00:18:47by what he saw,

00:18:48smell, heard,

00:18:50and felt,

00:18:50you know,

00:18:51with his own eyes,

00:18:51ears, hands.

00:18:54I read quite a number

00:18:55of letters

00:18:56that he wrote

00:18:57while he was there

00:18:58liberating the camps,

00:19:00what he saw,

00:19:01what he felt

00:19:01while this was going on.

00:19:03This has fueled

00:19:04a nuclear reactor

00:19:06inside this man

00:19:07and it's still,

00:19:08still, still

00:19:09what he does

00:19:10every day.

00:19:14I would first find

00:19:15the commanding officer

00:19:16of the tank battalion.

00:19:18I'd go to him

00:19:19and say,

00:19:20I'm here on orders

00:19:20of General Patton,

00:19:22war crimes investigator.

00:19:24I want 10 men

00:19:25immediately surround

00:19:26the Shreibstruber,

00:19:27the office.

00:19:28Nobody goes in or out

00:19:29without my permission.

00:19:33And I look back on it,

00:19:35you know,

00:19:35I built a screen,

00:19:37some sort of a screen

00:19:38before my mind

00:19:39to say,

00:19:40this is not real,

00:19:41this is, you know,

00:19:42just go ahead,

00:19:43you know.

00:19:48It's incomprehensible

00:19:49to a rational human mind.

00:19:53People lying dead

00:19:54on the floor.

00:19:56You don't know

00:19:56if they're dead or alive.

00:19:57The floor is covered

00:19:58with dead people.

00:20:01Some are moving

00:20:02and they're pleading

00:20:03with their eyes,

00:20:04helping, you know.

00:20:05They're dressed in rags,

00:20:07you know,

00:20:08complete rags.

00:20:09The SS is fleeing,

00:20:11trying to run out

00:20:11the other end.

00:20:12Some inmates are alive,

00:20:14catching SS men

00:20:15and beat them to death

00:20:15or burn them alive.

00:20:17I've seen that too.

00:20:20And the medics

00:20:22are not yet there.

00:20:23You know,

00:20:23they'll be coming in soon.

00:20:25And the crematory

00:20:28are going.

00:20:29Stacks of bodies,

00:20:30looks like skeletons

00:20:31or bones,

00:20:33piled up like cordwood

00:20:34in front of the crematory.

00:20:37Stench in the air.

00:20:39The human beings

00:20:40behaving like rats

00:20:41in the garbage pile,

00:20:43digging,

00:20:43crawling for a bite to eat.

00:20:58I can't go on

00:20:59describing it.

00:21:04It becomes vivid again.

00:21:06And I was ice cold.

00:21:09I didn't shed a tear.

00:21:11I didn't hesitate.

00:21:13I went,

00:21:13I did my job

00:21:14because that was my job

00:21:16and to get out

00:21:17as fast as you can.

00:21:31The war was over

00:21:32and I joined the army

00:21:35to help win the war.

00:21:36We had won.

00:21:38My primary goal after

00:21:39was to get home

00:21:40as soon as possible,

00:21:41try to resume

00:21:42a normal life.

00:21:44Not in the wildest imagination

00:21:46what I have dreamt

00:21:48that I would turn around

00:21:49and go back to Germany.

00:21:50That was the furthest thing

00:21:52from my mind.

00:21:53I was with 10 million

00:21:54other GIs coming home

00:21:55looking for a job.

00:21:58And when the cable came

00:22:00from the Pentagon

00:22:01saying,

00:22:02dear sir,

00:22:03they'd never called me

00:22:03sir before,

00:22:05would you please come

00:22:05to Washington?

00:22:06We want to talk to you.

00:22:07I assumed there was

00:22:08a connection

00:22:09with job application.

00:22:10And off I went

00:22:12to Washington.

00:22:13And then my life

00:22:15took a different turn.

00:22:26The end of the Second World War

00:22:29where Europe,

00:22:31parts of Asia

00:22:32just devastated.

00:22:35How many millions

00:22:37of people

00:22:38dead?

00:22:43And not just deaths,

00:22:46but crimes

00:22:47committed

00:22:48on unimaginable

00:22:51industrial scale

00:22:53by the Third Reich

00:22:56in Germany.

00:23:02The pictures

00:23:03from the

00:23:04liberated

00:23:05concentration

00:23:06camps

00:23:08did

00:23:09horrify

00:23:10people.

00:23:16They were so atrocious

00:23:17that they couldn't

00:23:19be left

00:23:19unanswered.

00:23:20Something had to

00:23:21happen.

00:23:21You couldn't just

00:23:22have a settlement

00:23:23and go back

00:23:24to normal.

00:23:27the Allied

00:23:28powers decided

00:23:29that you had

00:23:31to stigmatize

00:23:32what happened,

00:23:34that this had

00:23:35had consequences.

00:23:39We know

00:23:39there are some

00:23:40people who said

00:23:41just take out

00:23:41the Nazi

00:23:42murderers

00:23:43and shoot them.

00:23:44There are others

00:23:45who said

00:23:46just let it

00:23:47alone.

00:23:48What's past

00:23:48is past.

00:23:49To its credit,

00:23:51the U.S.

00:23:53insisted on a

00:23:55trial.

00:23:57And to see

00:23:59the 22 top

00:24:01Nazi leaders

00:24:03still alive

00:24:05in the dock

00:24:07in that courtroom

00:24:08in Nuremberg,

00:24:09I think sent

00:24:11a signal

00:24:12that these

00:24:14kinds of crimes

00:24:15could be

00:24:17prosecuted

00:24:18fairly

00:24:19and those

00:24:21responsible

00:24:22held to

00:24:23account.

00:24:29Attention,

00:24:30tribunal.

00:24:31Judges from

00:24:32Britain,

00:24:33America,

00:24:33Russia,

00:24:33and France

00:24:34assemble in

00:24:35Nuremberg's

00:24:35courthouse.

00:24:37Empowered to

00:24:38impose sentence

00:24:38of death

00:24:39or such punishment

00:24:40as it may

00:24:40consider just,

00:24:41the tribunal

00:24:42sits in judgment

00:24:43upon 20 leaders

00:24:44of the Nazi

00:24:44party.

00:24:46If you think

00:24:46of the situation

00:24:47in summer 1945,

00:24:49what a lot

00:24:50of German cities

00:24:51looked like,

00:24:52it was really

00:24:53challenging

00:24:54to find a place

00:24:55where you could

00:24:56hold such a trial.

00:24:57You would need

00:24:58the building,

00:24:59you would need

00:24:59a prison,

00:25:01you know,

00:25:01just infrastructure,

00:25:02you would need

00:25:02an airport,

00:25:03something where

00:25:03you could fly

00:25:04in people.

00:25:06And they ended

00:25:07up here in

00:25:07Nuremberg

00:25:08because the

00:25:09Palace of Justice

00:25:10had survived

00:25:11the war

00:25:12more or less

00:25:13undestroyed.

00:25:14And, of course,

00:25:16there also

00:25:16was the symbolic

00:25:17aspects.

00:25:24Nuremberg

00:25:24was the place

00:25:25where the Nazis

00:25:26had the annual

00:25:27party rallies.

00:25:29So it's more

00:25:30than an

00:25:31infrastructural

00:25:32question.

00:25:33The symbolism

00:25:34was very much

00:25:35in the heads

00:25:35of those

00:25:36planning the

00:25:38Nuremberg trials

00:25:38in July

00:25:401945.

00:25:41If you go

00:25:42back and read

00:25:43the transcript

00:25:43of the original

00:25:44IMT,

00:25:45the International

00:25:45Military Tribunal,

00:25:47the way Robert

00:25:48Jackson addressed

00:25:49the court,

00:25:49I mean,

00:25:50this is not

00:25:51your classic

00:25:51opening statement.

00:25:52This is poetry

00:25:54in motion.

00:25:54The privilege

00:25:57of opening

00:25:58the first

00:25:59trial in history

00:26:01for crimes

00:26:02against the

00:26:03peace of the

00:26:04world

00:26:06imposes a

00:26:07grave

00:26:07responsibility.

00:26:09The wrongs

00:26:10which we seek

00:26:11to condemn

00:26:12and punish

00:26:13have been

00:26:15so calculated,

00:26:16so malignant,

00:26:18and so

00:26:18devastated,

00:26:19that civilization

00:26:21cannot tolerate

00:26:22their being

00:26:23ignored

00:26:23because it

00:26:25cannot survive

00:26:26their being

00:26:27repeated.

00:26:28I do think

00:26:30that he had

00:26:30a sense

00:26:31that the world

00:26:32when that trial

00:26:34has ended

00:26:34would not be

00:26:35the same

00:26:35in international

00:26:36law.

00:26:37You know,

00:26:37he had this

00:26:38sentiment that

00:26:39this is world

00:26:39history

00:26:40that he was

00:26:43part of

00:26:43or even

00:26:43the driving

00:26:44force of.

00:26:46That four

00:26:47great nations

00:26:49fleshed with

00:26:50victory

00:26:51and stung

00:26:52with injury

00:26:53stay the

00:26:54hand of

00:26:55vengeance

00:26:55and voluntarily

00:26:57submit their

00:26:58captive enemies

00:26:59to the judgment

00:27:01of the law

00:27:02is one of the

00:27:04most significant

00:27:05tributes

00:27:05that power

00:27:07has ever

00:27:08paid to

00:27:09reason.

00:27:11The Nuremberg

00:27:12trials were

00:27:14the first

00:27:15time in

00:27:16modern times

00:27:17that we

00:27:19had defined

00:27:20crimes against

00:27:21humanity

00:27:21genocide

00:27:22and war

00:27:23crimes in

00:27:24such an

00:27:24explicit way

00:27:25and then

00:27:26held men

00:27:28accountable

00:27:28for violating

00:27:29them.

00:27:30I was

00:27:31interviewed

00:27:31by a

00:27:32Colonel

00:27:32Mickey Marcus

00:27:33who was

00:27:34in the

00:27:34Pentagon

00:27:34and his

00:27:36job was

00:27:36to try

00:27:37to recruit

00:27:38staff

00:27:39for subsequent

00:27:41proceedings

00:27:41after the

00:27:43international

00:27:43military trial

00:27:44was finished

00:27:45and he said

00:27:47that somebody

00:27:47else wants

00:27:48to talk to

00:27:48you

00:27:48and that

00:27:50was then

00:27:51Colonel

00:27:52Telford

00:27:53Taylor.

00:27:54Telford Taylor

00:27:55had been assigned

00:27:56by the

00:27:56President Truman

00:27:57to carry on

00:27:59the work

00:27:59of Jackson

00:28:00by being

00:28:00the chief

00:28:01of counsel

00:28:01for the

00:28:0212 subsequent

00:28:03trials

00:28:03were being

00:28:04planned

00:28:04so he

00:28:05said

00:28:07considering

00:28:07you know

00:28:08you're going

00:28:09back with me

00:28:09he said

00:28:10but I

00:28:11have checked

00:28:12your army

00:28:12record

00:28:13and your

00:28:13background

00:28:14and I

00:28:15understand

00:28:15that you're

00:28:15occasionally

00:28:16insubordinate

00:28:17and I said

00:28:18that's not

00:28:19correct sir

00:28:19I'm usually

00:28:21insubordinate

00:28:21I do not

00:28:23obey any

00:28:23orders that I

00:28:24know is stupid

00:28:25or illegal

00:28:26but I've been

00:28:27checking up

00:28:27on you too

00:28:28and I had

00:28:28in the interim

00:28:29and I don't

00:28:30think you'll

00:28:31give me that

00:28:31kind of

00:28:31orders

00:28:32because he

00:28:32was also

00:28:32a Harvard

00:28:33graduate

00:28:33and he

00:28:34checked

00:28:34my record

00:28:34so he

00:28:36smiled

00:28:36and he

00:28:36said

00:28:37you'll

00:28:37go

00:28:37with

00:28:37me

00:28:42these

00:28:43were to

00:28:43be 12

00:28:44additional

00:28:45trials

00:28:45because

00:28:47it was

00:28:47recognized

00:28:48by just

00:28:49taking

00:28:49a snapshot

00:28:50of the

00:28:51international

00:28:51military

00:28:51tribunal

00:28:52top

00:28:53Nazi

00:28:53leaders

00:28:53you still

00:28:54didn't

00:28:55quite

00:28:55understand

00:28:55how

00:28:56it would

00:28:56be

00:28:56possible

00:28:57for a

00:28:57civilized

00:28:58country

00:28:58like

00:28:58Germany

00:28:59to

00:29:00engage

00:29:00in that

00:29:00type

00:29:01of

00:29:01atrocities

00:29:01for which

00:29:02they

00:29:02were

00:29:02responsible

00:29:03and the

00:29:04idea

00:29:04of the

00:29:04subsequent

00:29:05proceedings

00:29:05as they

00:29:06were called

00:29:06was to

00:29:07put the

00:29:08doctors

00:29:08on trial

00:29:09sampling

00:29:10who

00:29:11performed

00:29:11medical

00:29:12experiments

00:29:12on

00:29:13concentration

00:29:13camp

00:29:14inmates

00:29:14the lawyers

00:29:15and judges

00:29:16who perverted

00:29:16the law

00:29:17which was

00:29:17the framework

00:29:19on which

00:29:19they built

00:29:20the film

00:29:20Judgment

00:29:21at Nuremberg

00:29:22you had

00:29:22the

00:29:24industrialists

00:29:25like

00:29:25IG Farben

00:29:26who provided

00:29:27the money

00:29:27to build

00:29:28Auschwitz

00:29:28and who

00:29:29were working

00:29:30people

00:29:30to death

00:29:30for their

00:29:31own profit

00:29:32in their

00:29:33own companies

00:29:33give them

00:29:34a chance

00:29:35to state

00:29:35their case

00:29:36foreign ministry

00:29:37people

00:29:37and then the

00:29:38SS squads

00:29:39who were the

00:29:40real murderers

00:29:41on the scene

00:29:41so the idea

00:29:42was to take a

00:29:43sampling for these

00:29:4412 different

00:29:45categories

00:29:46and project

00:29:47that

00:29:47and through

00:29:48the form of

00:29:49these 12

00:29:49trials

00:29:49to give a

00:29:50comprehensive

00:29:51picture

00:29:51and Telford

00:29:52Taylor

00:29:52was to be

00:29:53chief of

00:29:53counsel

00:29:54for those

00:29:5412

00:29:56I can imagine

00:29:57no two more

00:29:58different people

00:29:59than Telford

00:30:00Taylor

00:30:00and Ben

00:30:02Telford

00:30:02this very

00:30:03tall

00:30:04elegant

00:30:05waspy

00:30:06gentleman

00:30:07who could

00:30:08not have

00:30:09been more

00:30:09polite

00:30:10and thoughtful

00:30:12you never

00:30:13got a quick

00:30:13answer

00:30:14out of

00:30:14Telford

00:30:15it was always

00:30:15let me

00:30:16think about

00:30:17that

00:30:17and Ben

00:30:18this kind

00:30:19of dynamo

00:30:20of a

00:30:21tiny little

00:30:22Jewish guy

00:30:23with none

00:30:24of

00:30:24the kind

00:30:26of elegance

00:30:27of Telford

00:30:27he had

00:30:28the same

00:30:28elegance

00:30:28in mind

00:30:29but not

00:30:30elegance

00:30:30of physical

00:30:31appearance

00:30:32I can

00:30:33easily see

00:30:33the attraction

00:30:35he was

00:30:36brilliant

00:30:37insightful

00:30:38determined

00:30:39he had

00:30:40all the

00:30:40qualities

00:30:41that one

00:30:42would look

00:30:42for

00:30:43if one

00:30:43were

00:30:43a

00:30:43Telford

00:30:43Taylor

00:30:48by the

00:30:49time

00:30:49we got

00:30:50there

00:30:50to that

00:30:51stage

00:30:52he had

00:30:52already

00:30:52picked

00:30:53lawyers

00:30:53for most

00:30:53of his

00:30:54trials

00:30:54and he

00:30:55said

00:30:55Ben

00:30:56look

00:30:56you

00:30:56have

00:30:57the

00:30:57experience

00:30:57in the

00:30:57field

00:30:58of going

00:30:58into

00:30:58the

00:30:59camps

00:30:59collecting

00:30:59evidence

00:31:00for the

00:31:01army

00:31:01trials

00:31:02we have

00:31:03a number

00:31:04of suspects

00:31:04but if you

00:31:05have a

00:31:06suspect

00:31:06and no

00:31:06evidence

00:31:07you have

00:31:07nothing

00:31:07your job

00:31:09is to

00:31:09go find

00:31:09the

00:31:10evidence

00:31:10so I

00:31:11took a

00:31:12staff

00:31:12of about

00:31:1250

00:31:12people

00:31:13and went

00:31:13to

00:31:14Berlin

00:31:14set up

00:31:15the

00:31:15organization

00:31:15to start

00:31:17searching

00:31:17in the

00:31:17archives

00:31:18the

00:31:18foreign

00:31:18ministry

00:31:19the

00:31:19SS

00:31:20the

00:31:20Gestapo

00:31:21the

00:31:22army

00:31:22and

00:31:23industrialists

00:31:24to see

00:31:24what evidence

00:31:25we had

00:31:26that they

00:31:26had committed

00:31:27war crimes

00:31:29it was in

00:31:30that capacity

00:31:31that one of my

00:31:32staff members

00:31:33boy from

00:31:34Switzerland

00:31:34came and he

00:31:35said look what I

00:31:36found in the

00:31:37offices of the

00:31:38foreign ministry

00:31:38and it was a

00:31:39complete dossier

00:31:41the daily reports

00:31:42coming in from the

00:31:43front

00:31:44saying how many

00:31:45Jews these units

00:31:46had murdered

00:31:47now these Jews

00:31:48were called

00:31:48Einsatzgruppen

00:31:49and it was

00:31:50deliberately

00:31:52disguised

00:31:53so you

00:31:53couldn't tell

00:31:54from the name

00:31:54what it was

00:31:55because their

00:31:56assignment was

00:31:57to going

00:31:58behind the

00:31:59German lines

00:31:59and then

00:32:00murder

00:32:01they never

00:32:02used the

00:32:02word murder

00:32:03they said

00:32:03eliminate

00:32:04exterminate

00:32:05every single

00:32:06Jewish man

00:32:07woman and

00:32:07child they

00:32:08could lay

00:32:08their hands

00:32:08on and do

00:32:09the same

00:32:10thing for

00:32:10the gypsies

00:32:11and do the

00:32:12same thing

00:32:12for any

00:32:12suspected

00:32:14possible

00:32:14enemies of

00:32:15the Reich

00:32:15that was

00:32:16their job

00:32:17they had

00:32:18these daily

00:32:18reports

00:32:19sent back

00:32:20to Berlin

00:32:20where they

00:32:21were consolidated

00:32:22and put

00:32:23together in a

00:32:23folder

00:32:24and each

00:32:25of those

00:32:25reports

00:32:26was sent

00:32:26down

00:32:27and I

00:32:27had the

00:32:27distribution

00:32:28list

00:32:28to 99

00:32:30different

00:32:30branches

00:32:31of the

00:32:31German

00:32:31government

00:32:32the people

00:32:33like the

00:32:33army

00:32:33who said

00:32:33I never

00:32:34heard anything

00:32:34about that

00:32:35it was not

00:32:36in my area

00:32:36and so on

00:32:37that was

00:32:37baloney

00:32:38they were

00:32:39under my

00:32:39distribution

00:32:39list

00:32:40so I took

00:32:41a little

00:32:41adding machine

00:32:42and began

00:32:42to add them

00:32:43up

00:32:43and when I

00:32:44reached a

00:32:45million

00:32:45million people

00:32:46murdered

00:32:46I said

00:32:47that's

00:32:47enough

00:32:48I took

00:32:48a sampling

00:32:49took the

00:32:50next plane

00:32:50from Berlin

00:32:51where I

00:32:52had the

00:32:52headquarters

00:32:53for that

00:32:53went down

00:32:54to Nuremberg

00:32:55and I said

00:32:56general

00:32:56by that time

00:32:57he had been

00:32:57promoted

00:32:59we gotta

00:33:00put on

00:33:00a new

00:33:00trial

00:33:04the

00:33:05the

00:33:06the

00:33:06were

00:33:07task

00:33:07forces

00:33:08moving

00:33:09behind

00:33:09the

00:33:09front lines

00:33:10and their

00:33:10only

00:33:11purpose

00:33:11was to

00:33:12kill

00:33:13Jews

00:33:14minorities

00:33:15and

00:33:17opposition

00:33:17so they

00:33:18were really

00:33:18like

00:33:20killing

00:33:21squads

00:33:21these

00:33:22these

00:33:23were

00:33:23the

00:33:23forces

00:33:24that

00:33:25rode

00:33:25around

00:33:26and

00:33:27machine

00:33:28gun

00:33:29whole

00:33:31villages

00:33:32and

00:33:32communities

00:33:34lined up

00:33:36on the

00:33:36edge

00:33:37of

00:33:37mass

00:33:38graves

00:33:44this

00:33:46was

00:33:46not

00:33:47the

00:33:47industrial

00:33:49horror

00:33:50of

00:33:51Auschwitz

00:33:52this

00:33:54was

00:33:54a

00:33:55direct

00:33:56human

00:33:57being

00:33:58to

00:33:58human

00:33:59being

00:34:00atrocity

00:34:04it

00:34:05concentrated

00:34:06in a

00:34:07very

00:34:07direct

00:34:08way

00:34:09the

00:34:10ability

00:34:10of

00:34:11one

00:34:11human

00:34:12being

00:34:12to

00:34:13savagely

00:34:14destroy

00:34:15another

00:34:16in a

00:34:17way that

00:34:18is just

00:34:19incomprehensible

00:34:28he said

00:34:29I'm sorry

00:34:29we can't

00:34:30do it

00:34:30all

00:34:31the

00:34:3212

00:34:32trials

00:34:32have been

00:34:32approved

00:34:33by the

00:34:34Pentagon

00:34:35we have

00:34:36the staff

00:34:37has already

00:34:37been assigned

00:34:38we don't

00:34:39have staff

00:34:40we probably

00:34:41can't get

00:34:41approval for

00:34:42any more

00:34:42crimes

00:34:42anyway

00:34:43the Pentagon

00:34:44had already

00:34:44cooled

00:34:45our trials

00:34:46so we

00:34:47can't do it

00:34:48I said

00:34:49you can't let

00:34:50these guys go

00:34:51I have in my hand

00:34:52mass murder

00:34:53on an incredible

00:34:54scale

00:34:54the evidence

00:34:55is all here

00:34:56you're not going to

00:34:57let these guys

00:34:57walk away

00:34:58he said

00:34:59well can you do it

00:35:00in addition to your

00:35:00other work

00:35:01and I said

00:35:01sure

00:35:02he said

00:35:03okay

00:35:03so you do it

00:35:04okay

00:35:05and so it

00:35:06happened

00:35:06and I became

00:35:07the chief

00:35:08prosecutor

00:35:09of what turned

00:35:10out to be

00:35:10the biggest

00:35:11murder trial

00:35:11in human history

00:35:12I have to say

00:35:14looking back

00:35:14on myself

00:35:15at 27

00:35:16I don't know

00:35:17about you

00:35:17I can't think

00:35:18of very many

00:35:19people who

00:35:19would have

00:35:20had

00:35:21the confidence

00:35:22the skill

00:35:23and the

00:35:25knowledge

00:35:26in a new

00:35:28legal territory

00:35:29to be so

00:35:30persuasive

00:35:31in that

00:35:31role

00:35:39first of all

00:35:40you only pick

00:35:41a guy

00:35:42who's in

00:35:42captivity

00:35:42you don't name

00:35:44Adolf Hitler

00:35:45because you know

00:35:46he's dead

00:35:46and there's no sense

00:35:47putting him in

00:35:48so I first said

00:35:50is he dead or alive

00:35:51and how do we have him

00:35:53if we haven't got him

00:35:54you know

00:35:55Mengele and people

00:35:56like that

00:35:56forget it

00:35:57they may be the top

00:35:58if we haven't got him

00:35:59so you have to know

00:36:00he's in captivity

00:36:06now

00:36:06and what evidence

00:36:08do we have

00:36:09against it

00:36:09the Einsatzgruppen

00:36:11was easy

00:36:11I had their daily

00:36:12reports

00:36:14I had the roster

00:36:16of all the members

00:36:16of the Einsatzgruppen

00:36:18so I just went

00:36:18through them

00:36:19and picked me out

00:36:20the highest ranking

00:36:21ones

00:36:21and so I had

00:36:23about five or six

00:36:24generals

00:36:24I had no enlisted

00:36:26men in my doc

00:36:27having been an enlisted

00:36:28man in the United States

00:36:29Army

00:36:29maybe I was biased

00:36:30no enlisted

00:36:31men in my doc

00:36:32give me the highest rank

00:36:34and the best educated

00:36:36those are the two

00:36:37criteria

00:36:40many of them

00:36:41with doctor degrees

00:36:43doctor

00:36:44rush

00:36:44had a double doctorate

00:36:45and I never had heard that before

00:36:47I was surprised

00:36:48and doctor

00:36:49doctor

00:36:49two doctorates

00:36:50he killed

00:36:5133,721 G's

00:36:53in two days

00:36:5429,30

00:36:55September

00:36:551941

00:36:59I got the bastard

00:37:01I was the first one

00:37:11in the courtroom

00:37:16I went in

00:37:17I sat down

00:37:18there was nobody

00:37:19but me

00:37:24I was thinking

00:37:25over my statement

00:37:26which I had written

00:37:27the day before

00:37:28I was seeing

00:37:29if I could improve it

00:37:30and I was waiting

00:37:31for the trial to begin

00:37:36I was calm

00:37:38I was determined

00:37:42I didn't realize

00:37:43I would be making history

00:37:54we are now ready

00:37:55to hear

00:37:56the presentation

00:37:57by the prosecution

00:37:58I made the opening statement

00:38:00which stated the case

00:38:01it did not appear

00:38:03on the film

00:38:04because the film

00:38:05didn't start rolling

00:38:06until after the first paragraph

00:38:08had been done

00:38:08and what had left out

00:38:10was the important beginning

00:38:11it was

00:38:11may it please

00:38:12your honors

00:38:13it is with sorrow

00:38:14and with hope

00:38:15that we hear

00:38:16disclose

00:38:17the massive murder

00:38:18of a million people

00:38:19etc

00:38:21this was the tragic fulfillment

00:38:23of a program

00:38:25of intolerance

00:38:27and arrogance

00:38:28but I was very specific

00:38:30vengeance

00:38:31is not our role

00:38:32nor do we seek

00:38:34merely a just retribution

00:38:38we ask this court

00:38:40to affirm

00:38:41by international

00:38:42penal action

00:38:44man's right

00:38:45to live in peace

00:38:47and dignity

00:38:49regardless

00:38:49of his race

00:38:50or creed

00:38:52the case we present

00:38:54is a plea

00:38:56of humanity

00:38:57to law

00:38:59so here at 27

00:39:01I don't know about you

00:39:0227 is just the beginning

00:39:04of being a grown up

00:39:05and he was

00:39:06in front of the world

00:39:07he wasn't just in front

00:39:08of these judges

00:39:09and these defendants

00:39:10he was in front of the world

00:39:12making a case

00:39:14as a prosecutor

00:39:15looking at the judges

00:39:16and saying

00:39:17the case we present

00:39:18is a plea

00:39:19of humanity

00:39:20to law

00:39:21beautiful stuff

00:39:22honestly

00:39:23it was years

00:39:24for me

00:39:25before I wouldn't get

00:39:26literally teary eyed

00:39:27and emotional

00:39:28just saying those words

00:39:29because I think

00:39:30they're so powerful

00:39:30so beautiful

00:39:31so applicable

00:39:32so apropos

00:39:33to what's happening today

00:39:34we shall show

00:39:36that these deeds

00:39:37of men in uniform

00:39:39were the methodical execution

00:39:42of long range plans

00:39:44to destroy

00:39:46ethnic

00:39:47national

00:39:48political

00:39:49and religious groups

00:39:51which stood condemned

00:39:52in the Nazi mind

00:39:55here's Ben

00:39:56standing on some books

00:39:59so that he can be

00:40:01taller than the lectern

00:40:04that is immediately

00:40:05in front of him

00:40:07I can only imagine

00:40:08what he must have felt like

00:40:10here this little Jewish guy

00:40:11who had his parents

00:40:12not left

00:40:13would have been one of those

00:40:14gassed and killed

00:40:15standing and looking

00:40:17at these

00:40:17German

00:40:19supermen

00:40:20and saying

00:40:21I have more power now

00:40:23but I'm just a kid

00:40:25it must have been

00:40:26such a mixed feeling

00:40:27of passion

00:40:29and determination

00:40:30and I have to do this

00:40:32and nervousness

00:40:33and a combination

00:40:35of self-confidence

00:40:36and self-doubt

00:40:39I wasn't nervous

00:40:40at all

00:40:41I didn't kill anybody

00:40:42they were the ones

00:40:43who were nervous

00:40:44and they should have been

00:40:45because I had the evidence

00:40:48you know

00:40:49this was really

00:40:50every prosecutor's dream

00:40:51you don't have to call

00:40:52a witness

00:40:52all you have to do

00:40:53is enter the documents

00:40:55primary documents

00:40:56saying

00:40:56when

00:40:57where

00:40:57who

00:40:58did the killing

00:40:58because you had

00:41:00enough written

00:41:00documentary material

00:41:02that you can

00:41:03point at

00:41:03could point at

00:41:04saying yeah

00:41:05here you say

00:41:05is this your signature

00:41:06and

00:41:07that's it

00:41:08you didn't need to have

00:41:10any more approved

00:41:11by witnesses

00:41:13and of course

00:41:14the Germans were

00:41:15cautious enough

00:41:15to put everything

00:41:17into the books

00:41:17that they did

00:41:20and offered

00:41:21as prosecution

00:41:22exhibit 29

00:41:26I see there's

00:41:27another objection

00:41:28coming

00:41:28I'll continue

00:41:29the quote

00:41:29here

00:41:33Dr. Berger

00:41:34for Biberstein

00:41:37the defense lawyers

00:41:39who were

00:41:40generally German

00:41:40were actually

00:41:42a highly talented

00:41:43group

00:41:44of lawyers

00:41:45and they

00:41:45bore themselves

00:41:47quite well

00:41:48in the courtroom

00:41:49and they sometimes

00:41:50were able to

00:41:51challenge the prosecution

00:41:53quite effectively

00:41:54they were very much

00:41:56individualists

00:41:58and they didn't

00:41:59come up with

00:42:00a sort of

00:42:00common strategy

00:42:01they all had

00:42:02their own

00:42:03strategies

00:42:04they were paid

00:42:05by the tribunal

00:42:07and for the times

00:42:10then

00:42:10it was a considerable

00:42:11amount of money

00:42:12you know

00:42:13in 1945

00:42:14Germany was

00:42:15totally destructed

00:42:16and for your lawyer

00:42:17I think it was

00:42:18quite a good thing

00:42:19to work

00:42:20at the tribunal

00:42:21because you were

00:42:22given money

00:42:23on a regular basis

00:42:24it should be

00:42:25recognized

00:42:25that in 1945

00:42:27and 46

00:42:29the German people

00:42:30were not

00:42:32necessarily

00:42:33seeking to

00:42:34tarnish the reputation

00:42:35of their

00:42:37surviving leaders

00:42:38at that time

00:42:39there was a lot

00:42:40of opposition

00:42:41to Nuremberg

00:42:41by the German people

00:42:43and so when they

00:42:44saw their leaders

00:42:45up on the stand

00:42:46this was an assault

00:42:47on German honor

00:42:48and so

00:42:50you know

00:42:51the defense lawyers

00:42:52knew that

00:42:53they sort of

00:42:54had the German people

00:42:55behind them

00:42:56in representing

00:42:58the Nazi defendants

00:43:00on the stand

00:43:02have you read

00:43:03the indictment

00:43:04yeah

00:43:05how do you

00:43:07plead to this

00:43:07indictment

00:43:08guilty or not

00:43:09guilty

00:43:11not guilty

00:43:14in the sense

00:43:15of the indictment

00:43:15is what they said

00:43:17but what

00:43:17what did that mean

00:43:18the judge said

00:43:19correctly

00:43:19would take that

00:43:20as a plea

00:43:20of not guilty

00:43:21I think the defendants

00:43:23honestly believed

00:43:24they were

00:43:25not guilty

00:43:27they had

00:43:29persuaded

00:43:29themselves

00:43:30that they did

00:43:31the right thing

00:43:32these were

00:43:33people who

00:43:35were not

00:43:36necessarily born

00:43:37to become

00:43:38mass murderers

00:43:39they were

00:43:41susceptible

00:43:42to the pressures

00:43:43that made them

00:43:45mass murderers

00:43:46in the Nazi regime

00:43:47that doesn't mean

00:43:48that I could

00:43:49ever do that

00:43:50I could never

00:43:50do that

00:43:51no matter what

00:43:51the circumstances

00:43:52were

00:43:53there were certain

00:43:53people who could

00:43:54never ever

00:43:55become Nazis

00:43:56and there were

00:43:57others who could

00:43:57have gone

00:43:58either way

00:43:59and I think

00:43:59many of the

00:44:00defendants

00:44:01in Erdenberg

00:44:01could have

00:44:02gone

00:44:03either way

00:44:10Dr. Otto

00:44:20Ohlendorf

00:44:20General of the

00:44:22SS

00:44:22I knew him

00:44:23quite well

00:44:24now

00:44:25would I call him

00:44:26an animal

00:44:27he was rational

00:44:29he was rational

00:44:30he was I'm sure

00:44:30good to his cats

00:44:31and dogs

00:44:32he was the father

00:44:33of five children

00:44:34he made a sensible

00:44:36argument

00:44:36he was reasonably

00:44:38honest

00:44:39in his answers

00:44:40he said he would

00:44:41do it again

00:44:42even if they ordered

00:44:44him to kill

00:44:44his own sister

00:44:45and the reason

00:44:46was

00:44:48Hitler knew

00:44:49that the Germans

00:44:50were going to be

00:44:51attacked by the Russians

00:44:52and Hitler

00:44:53had more knowledge

00:44:54than he did

00:44:55therefore he was

00:44:55in no position

00:44:56to challenge that

00:44:57and it was lawful

00:44:59therefore

00:44:59to act

00:45:01in anticipatory

00:45:02self-defense

00:45:04to prevent that

00:45:05from happening

00:45:06and that's what

00:45:06he was doing

00:45:07he made an argument

00:45:09which the Pentagon

00:45:10would make today

00:45:12self-defense

00:45:13was his plea

00:45:16very well

00:45:17we'll leave this

00:45:18after one more question

00:45:20the figure

00:45:2190,000

00:45:22is the best

00:45:23estimate

00:45:24you can give

00:45:27at this moment

00:45:29I take it

00:45:30we must continue

00:45:31to read that

00:45:32with the qualification

00:45:34which you gave

00:45:35in direct testimony

00:45:38that you think

00:45:39there's a great deal

00:45:40of exaggeration

00:45:41in it

00:45:42he made the point

00:45:44some of the commanders

00:45:45would take the infants

00:45:46and just hold them

00:45:48by a leg

00:45:48and smash their head

00:45:49against a tree

00:45:50and he said

00:45:51I didn't believe in that

00:45:53he said

00:45:53I told my man

00:45:54when a mother

00:45:56has an infant

00:45:57and of course

00:45:57the infant is

00:45:58crying

00:45:58and the mother

00:45:59is crying

00:46:01and she's holding

00:46:02the infant to her breast

00:46:03aim for the infant

00:46:04because you'll

00:46:05kill both of them

00:46:06with one shot

00:46:07you'll quiet the mother

00:46:08you'll save ammunition

00:46:10and it's much more humane

00:46:13and there were other things

00:46:14for example

00:46:14we had gas vans

00:46:16they were ordinary

00:46:18you know

00:46:18like trailers here

00:46:19except that they

00:46:20attached the hose

00:46:21from the engine

00:46:23to the inside

00:46:24so the fumes

00:46:25would asphyxiate

00:46:26the people inside

00:46:27the van

00:46:28and they'd pack them

00:46:29in solid

00:46:30lock them in

00:46:31and in about 20 minutes

00:46:32they'd get to the place

00:46:33where they're going to dump them

00:46:34open the van

00:46:35and dump them

00:46:35all into the ditch

00:46:36but Holendorf said

00:46:38I didn't like the gas vans

00:46:39because some of them

00:46:40were not dead

00:46:42and then you had to

00:46:43sort them out by hand

00:46:44and they were screaming

00:46:46and they were bloody

00:46:46and they were messy

00:46:47and he said

00:46:48I was bad for the morale

00:46:50of the men

00:46:51to have to do that

00:46:52so I told them

00:46:53I didn't want

00:46:53more gas vans

00:46:54so Holendorf was really

00:46:56quite a decent chap

00:46:58you might say

00:46:59aside from the fact

00:47:00that he killed

00:47:0190,000 Jews

00:47:02I'm sure he was

00:47:03quite a gentleman

00:47:15these million people

00:47:16were murdered

00:47:17because they didn't share

00:47:19the race

00:47:19the religion

00:47:20or the ideology

00:47:21of their executioners

00:47:23and I said

00:47:24that's a terrible crime

00:47:25and it's a crime

00:47:26against humanity

00:47:27and I called it

00:47:28a crime against humanity

00:47:32and I said

00:47:33if we can prevent that

00:47:34in future

00:47:35by condemning crimes

00:47:36against humanity

00:47:37we will reassert

00:47:39the legal right

00:47:40of all people

00:47:41to be protected

00:47:46if we could establish

00:47:47a principle of law

00:47:48which would protect humanity

00:47:50in the future

00:47:51then this trial

00:47:52would be significant

00:47:59for the first time

00:48:01the international community

00:48:03tried to put law

00:48:06as an answer

00:48:07to these most horrible crimes

00:48:10that originated

00:48:11from Nazi Germany

00:48:12and this was the revolution

00:48:14it started

00:48:15the way we think

00:48:17about international criminal law

00:48:19about international law

00:48:20generally

00:48:23I had a list

00:48:24I made myself

00:48:25on a yellow page

00:48:27in which I listed

00:48:28all the defendants

00:48:29and I listed

00:48:29what I thought

00:48:30the sentence should be

00:48:33the actual sentences

00:48:34were more severe

00:48:36than what I would have listed

00:48:40I was numb

00:48:42they were all imprisoned

00:48:44below the courthouse

00:48:45there is a lift

00:48:47like Mariah the Code

00:48:48which keeps going around

00:48:49into the courthouse

00:48:51and a sliding door

00:48:52which opens

00:48:52as each defendant

00:48:54came up

00:48:56they would hear

00:48:57the judge

00:48:58for the crimes

00:48:59of which you are convicted

00:49:00this tribunal

00:49:02sentenced you

00:49:02to death

00:49:03by hanging

00:49:05put the earphones back

00:49:06take it off

00:49:07I'll

00:49:09step back a step

00:49:10into the lift

00:49:11the door closes

00:49:12and he drops down

00:49:13into hell

00:49:13that's what I saw

00:49:17one after the other

00:49:18for the crimes

00:49:19of which you have been convicted

00:49:20this tribunal

00:49:21sends you

00:49:22death by hand

00:49:23death by hand

00:49:24death by hand

00:49:25I thought my head

00:49:26was going to bust

00:49:28it was customary

00:49:30for the chief prosecutor

00:49:31to invite his staff

00:49:32for a party

00:49:33when every trial

00:49:34was ended

00:49:34I had a party

00:49:35arranged for my house

00:49:36I couldn't go

00:49:37to my own party

00:49:38I went home

00:49:39went to bed

00:49:39and my head

00:49:40was pounding

00:49:42with it

00:49:43so

00:49:44how do you describe

00:49:45that emotion

00:49:46that feeling

00:49:47I didn't say

00:49:48I'm sorry for them

00:49:49I didn't say

00:49:50hooray for me

00:49:52it was a

00:49:53very tense

00:49:54very severe

00:49:56emotional reaction

00:49:57knowing that

00:49:59you're responsible

00:49:59for killing this guy

00:50:02Otto Ohlendorf

00:50:03he was the only

00:50:05defendant

00:50:06that I ever

00:50:07talked to

00:50:09man to man

00:50:10after he was

00:50:11sentenced to death

00:50:13I felt

00:50:15look this guy

00:50:16is going to hang

00:50:17for sure

00:50:18he's the father

00:50:19of five kids

00:50:20he has a wife

00:50:21he was honest

00:50:23on the trial

00:50:23maybe

00:50:25he'll tell me

00:50:26something

00:50:26you know

00:50:26tell my children

00:50:27I love them

00:50:28tell my wife

00:50:28I'm sorry

00:50:29nobody ever said

00:50:30they were sorry

00:50:33so I went down

00:50:34to talk to him

00:50:35and

00:50:36he's locked up

00:50:37in a cell

00:50:38behind bars

00:50:38under the courthouse

00:50:40and a little

00:50:41window opens up

00:50:43and I said

00:50:45to him

00:50:45in German

00:50:48I said

00:50:48can I do

00:50:49something for you

00:50:51and then he began

00:50:53you'll see

00:50:54you'll see

00:50:54I was right

00:50:55the Russians

00:50:56are going to

00:50:56take over

00:50:57the Jews

00:50:58in America

00:50:59will suffer

00:50:59and he

00:51:00goes

00:51:01go repeating

00:51:02the argument

00:51:02he read

00:51:03on the trial

00:51:03I let him go

00:51:04for about a minute

00:51:06and then I said

00:51:08goodbye

00:51:08Mr. Otto

00:51:09in English

00:51:10closed the door

00:51:11and left

00:51:11the next thing

00:51:12I saw

00:51:13I was invited

00:51:13to come to the

00:51:14hanging

00:51:14I refused to go

00:51:15but they send me

00:51:16the tape anyway

00:51:17so I have a picture

00:51:19of him hanging

00:51:19by the neck

00:51:20for eight minutes

00:51:20and then pronounced dead

00:51:33I wanted to go home

00:51:34but then

00:51:36something terrible

00:51:37happened

00:51:39I was approached

00:51:40by Jewish organizations

00:51:41and they said

00:51:42hey boy

00:51:45there's something else

00:51:46to be done here

00:51:47what about the victims

00:51:48and it didn't take a

00:51:49moment to convince me

00:51:50they had managed

00:51:52to get a military

00:51:52government law

00:51:53enacted

00:51:54saying that

00:51:55the property

00:51:56of murdered Jews

00:51:57would go not

00:51:58to the German state

00:52:00but to a consortium

00:52:01of Jewish organizations

00:52:03which would use it

00:52:04for charity

00:52:05purposes of the survivors

00:52:07and that sounded

00:52:08like a very good idea

00:52:09except they wanted me

00:52:11to take it over

00:52:11and to do the job

00:52:13I said

00:52:14how long do you think

00:52:15it will take

00:52:16they said

00:52:17well we'd like

00:52:17a commitment

00:52:18of two years

00:52:19so I went back

00:52:20to my dear wife

00:52:22and she said

00:52:24well the cause

00:52:24seems good enough

00:52:25but they said

00:52:26two years

00:52:27but as I know

00:52:27you would only

00:52:28take one year

00:52:29so take the job

00:52:32whereupon

00:52:32being the sole

00:52:33employee

00:52:34I declared myself

00:52:35the director general

00:52:36and set about

00:52:38to recover

00:52:39the airless

00:52:40unclaimed

00:52:40Jewish property

00:52:41naturally

00:52:42the cemeteries

00:52:43were unclaimed

00:52:44because the Jewish

00:52:45congregations

00:52:46which had built up

00:52:47these cemeteries

00:52:48for centuries

00:52:48were gone

00:52:49they were abolished

00:52:51and the cemeteries

00:52:52became property

00:52:52of the Reich

00:52:54so I immediately

00:52:55asserted

00:52:56ownership

00:52:57of all these cemeteries

00:52:59on behalf

00:52:59of the successor

00:53:00organization

00:53:02all well and good

00:53:03except

00:53:04the question arose

00:53:06who pays the cost

00:53:07of the maintenance

00:53:08of the cemeteries

00:53:10hundreds of cemeteries

00:53:16the Polish government

00:53:17and the Polish Red Cross

00:53:18invited me to come

00:53:19to Poland

00:53:21and be their guest

00:53:22for a week

00:53:23I said the only thing

00:53:25I really wanted to see

00:53:26in Poland

00:53:26was Auschwitz

00:53:27because I'd never been there

00:53:29and had been liberated

00:53:30by the Russians

00:53:33the field behind Auschwitz

00:53:36is covered with wild grass

00:53:40and under the grass

00:53:41there was the fertilizer

00:53:43taken from the crematorium

00:53:46and I noticed

00:53:47there were some

00:53:47looked like bones

00:53:48they were little bones

00:53:50of some kind

00:53:51they may have been bones

00:53:52of a child

00:53:52or of a hand

00:53:54and I picked them up

00:53:55and I put them in my pocket

00:53:57and somebody asked me

00:53:58why am I doing that

00:53:59I said I want to be reminded

00:54:01what the hell

00:54:02I'm doing in Germany

00:54:04anyway

00:54:05question comes up

00:54:06who's going to maintain

00:54:07those cemeteries

00:54:08at whose expense

00:54:11the Germans assure us

00:54:13that they will take care of it

00:54:15as they would

00:54:15their own cemeteries

00:54:17for 20 years

00:54:17I said wait a minute

00:54:19you take care of your own cemeteries

00:54:21for 20 years

00:54:22but in the Jewish tradition

00:54:23once a cemetery

00:54:24always a cemetery

00:54:26one of them says

00:54:27Mr. Ferentz

00:54:29you know

00:54:29be reasonable

00:54:30I mean

00:54:31do you expect us

00:54:32to give them

00:54:33more rice

00:54:34than what we give

00:54:35to our own

00:54:36German citizens

00:54:37at that point

00:54:38I exploded

00:54:41I really

00:54:42got mad

00:54:43and I pulled the bones

00:54:45and I said

00:54:45if they were alive

00:54:46they wouldn't ask you

00:54:47to take care of the cemeteries

00:54:49you killed them

00:54:50that's why they have to ask you

00:54:51and I pounded

00:54:52the bones

00:54:53on the table

00:54:54and I said

00:54:55do you want them to pay

00:54:56you ask them

00:54:58and the high tension

00:55:00because I very seldom

00:55:01get angry

00:55:03the chairman

00:55:04who was very wise

00:55:05he said

00:55:06meeting is adjourned

00:55:07for 15 minutes

00:55:09and we all got up

00:55:10and they all left me too

00:55:13they come back

00:55:14after 15 minutes

00:55:15and the chairman says

00:55:17we accept your terms

00:55:20just like that

00:55:21I said thank you very much

00:55:22and I left

00:55:23as soon as I could

00:55:24that meant

00:55:24that the German government

00:55:26was legally responsible

00:55:27and I assume

00:55:28they've done it

00:55:28because they're pretty good

00:55:29that way

00:55:30on maintaining

00:55:31all the Jewish cemeteries

00:55:32in perpetuity

00:55:34that's a fortune

00:55:37those bones

00:55:39clinched the argument

00:55:40without the bones

00:55:41it would not have happened

00:55:42I'm sure

00:55:44so I thought

00:55:45these were historic bones

00:55:46and I sent them

00:55:48to the Holocaust Museum

00:55:49and I told them the story

00:55:58my wife Gertrude

00:55:59with whom I've been happily wed

00:56:01for over 71 years

00:56:04she's also from Transylvania

00:56:06as I am

00:56:08she came to America

00:56:09when she was about 16 years old

00:56:12also no language

00:56:13no money

00:56:14no skills

00:56:14immediately went to work

00:56:16went to night school

00:56:18and got herself

00:56:20a master's degree

00:56:21in due course

00:56:22and became a health teacher

00:56:26I've been very fortunate

00:56:27because she had believed

00:56:29in what I was doing

00:56:30she tolerated my absences

00:56:32when I was going on

00:56:34trips around the world

00:56:37my dad used to tuck us in at night

00:56:39he would tell us stories

00:56:41every night

00:56:42he would take each of his kids

00:56:44on what he called dates

00:56:45on the weekend

00:56:46one at a time

00:56:47he used to play

00:56:48King of the Hill

00:56:49and you know

00:56:50Blind Man's Bluff

00:56:51or whatever the games were

00:56:53he was very involved

00:56:55with his kids

00:56:56particularly when we were young

00:56:57growing up

00:56:58so he made time

00:56:59for his kids

00:57:03it was time to go home

00:57:05I have my wife

00:57:06I have four children

00:57:07born in Nuremberg

00:57:09I have to go home

00:57:12so I went home

00:57:15the big law firm

00:57:17said oh it's great

00:57:17if we have to hang Nazis

00:57:19we'll call you

00:57:20you got any clients

00:57:21you know

00:57:23so I began to take

00:57:24the typical New York case

00:57:25if somebody fell down

00:57:26on the subway

00:57:27and broke a leg

00:57:27okay

00:57:28you know

00:57:30Telford

00:57:31had a similar experience

00:57:32he came back

00:57:33and he went into partnership

00:57:34with his

00:57:36brother-in-law

00:57:37who happened to be

00:57:38the dean of the Harvard Law School

00:57:39when he signed my diploma

00:57:41his name was

00:57:42Landis

00:57:43James Landis

00:57:44so he said

00:57:45Ben why don't you come in with us

00:57:46that didn't bring us

00:57:47any clients either

00:57:49but I was known

00:57:50as the lawyer

00:57:51who takes hopeless cases

00:57:52on a contingent fee

00:57:54and what I did

00:57:56was I would find

00:57:57a moral situation

00:57:58where the claimant

00:58:00didn't seem to have a chance

00:58:02but I felt it was right

00:58:03I went after them

00:58:04on a contingent fee

00:58:05which was usually

00:58:06much less than

00:58:07the normal contingent fee

00:58:08they practiced

00:58:10human rights law

00:58:11at a time

00:58:12when there was

00:58:13no such thing

00:58:14they practiced

00:58:15civil liberties law

00:58:17every case they took

00:58:18was a do-gooder case

00:58:20free speech cases

00:58:22anti-McCarthyism cases

00:58:24every kind of case

00:58:25that I wanted to take

00:58:27when I was

00:58:28a lawyer

00:58:29and I think that

00:58:30both Telford and Ben

00:58:31had an enormous impact

00:58:32on a generation

00:58:34of lawyers my age

00:58:35and I made enough money

00:58:37to invest it wisely

00:58:38and carefully

00:58:39and so from being

00:58:40a poor boy

00:58:41I got to be a rich boy

00:58:42and I gave away

00:58:43all my money

00:58:44I'm in the process

00:58:45of doing it still

00:58:47including to Cardozo

00:58:48including to Harvard Law School

00:58:50etc

00:58:52Teller went to Vietnam

00:58:53and he wrote a book

00:58:54Nuremberg and Vietnam

00:58:55in which he made the point

00:58:57that the United States

00:58:58forgot the lessons

00:58:59we try to teach

00:59:00the world

00:59:01in Nuremberg

00:59:04and he was

00:59:05an outspoken critic

00:59:06of the McCarthy regime

00:59:08he was

00:59:09very courageous

00:59:11absolutely correct

00:59:12good writer

00:59:13high moral standards

00:59:14he deserved

00:59:16much more

00:59:17recognition

00:59:18and responsibility

00:59:19than he had

00:59:21he was an excellent lawyer

00:59:23never properly appreciated

00:59:40we are

00:59:41in a time

00:59:42where we

00:59:43find the world

00:59:45in many

00:59:46different areas

00:59:47in

00:59:48Hina's

00:59:49horrible conflicts

00:59:50and

00:59:52the world

00:59:53after

00:59:53the fall

00:59:54of the Berlin Wall

00:59:55had

00:59:56the hope

00:59:57and expectation

00:59:58that

00:59:59we'll

00:59:59be in a more

01:00:01peaceful environment

01:00:02and

01:00:03this turned out

01:00:04to be

01:00:05a horrible

01:00:06fallacy

01:00:08you know

01:00:08after the

01:00:09Holocaust

01:00:10we said

01:00:10never again

01:00:11and we've

01:00:11seen it

01:00:12again

01:00:12and again

01:00:13and again

01:00:14and again

01:00:15and there's

01:00:16no indication

01:00:17that it's

01:00:17going to end

01:00:20we are now

01:00:21spending even

01:00:22more money

01:00:23to be

01:00:24in an arms race

01:00:25who can build

01:00:26the weapons

01:00:27to kill

01:00:27more people

01:00:28that is the

01:00:29current state

01:00:30of the world

01:00:30and we have

01:00:32to recognize

01:00:32that the only way

01:00:33out of this

01:00:34law

01:00:35not war

01:00:37the world

01:00:38is struggling

01:00:39for an answer

01:00:41and an answer

01:00:43could be found

01:00:44in international

01:00:45criminal law

01:00:47law could be

01:00:49an answer

01:00:50to

01:00:50conflicts

01:00:52with human

01:00:53suffering

01:00:53of an

01:00:54almost unseen

01:00:56nature

01:01:00the time

01:01:01has come

01:01:02guys

01:01:02to stop

01:01:03this killing

01:01:04have a court

01:01:05settle your

01:01:06disputes

01:01:06by peaceful

01:01:07means

01:01:07and until

01:01:08you do that

01:01:09you're going

01:01:10to continue

01:01:10killing yourselves

01:01:13and he says

01:01:14it's common

01:01:14sense

01:01:14if you have

01:01:15international

01:01:15crimes

01:01:16you need

01:01:16an international

01:01:16court

01:01:17so I began

01:01:18to write

01:01:19on the

01:01:19international

01:01:19criminal

01:01:20court

01:01:22I remember

01:01:23as a young

01:01:24lawyer

01:01:24very interested

01:01:25in international

01:01:26law

01:01:26I was in

01:01:27the international

01:01:27law firm

01:01:29I probably

01:01:30was the only

01:01:30person

01:01:31in the law

01:01:32firm

01:01:32that bought

01:01:33Ben's

01:01:34books

01:01:35because I

01:01:36was so

01:01:36impressed

01:01:37with what

01:01:37Ben Ferencz

01:01:38had written

01:01:38in 1980

01:01:39about you

01:01:41have to

01:01:41build an

01:01:41international

01:01:42criminal

01:01:42court

01:01:42you have

01:01:43these

01:01:43individuals

01:01:44who

01:01:45become

01:01:46part of

01:01:46international

01:01:47lawmaking

01:01:48that have

01:01:48an enormous

01:01:49individual

01:01:50impact

01:01:51and Ben

01:01:51was that

01:01:52he worked

01:01:53for decades

01:01:54to try

01:01:55and get

01:01:55a replacement

01:01:56for the

01:01:56Nuremberg

01:01:57tribunals

01:01:58within the

01:01:58United Nations

01:01:59General Assembly

01:02:00and international

01:02:01criminal

01:02:02court

01:02:03I was the

01:02:04ambassador

01:02:05at large

01:02:05for war

01:02:06crimes

01:02:06issues

01:02:06during the

01:02:07second

01:02:07term

01:02:07of the

01:02:08Clinton

01:02:08administration

01:02:09Ben Ferencz

01:02:11was one

01:02:12hell of a

01:02:13lobbyist

01:02:13he reminded

01:02:15me of

01:02:15Raphael

01:02:16Lemkin

01:02:16who

01:02:16was the

01:02:17father of

01:02:18the

01:02:18genocide

01:02:18convention

01:02:19and who

01:02:19spent the

01:02:201950s

01:02:21going up

01:02:21and down

01:02:21Capitol Hill

01:02:22urging

01:02:23ratification

01:02:24of the

01:02:24genocide

01:02:24convention

01:02:25by the

01:02:25United States

01:02:26well Ben

01:02:27Ferencz

01:02:27was there

01:02:28in the

01:02:281990s

01:02:29pressing

01:02:30hard

01:02:31and he

01:02:32kept at

01:02:33me

01:02:34and he

01:02:35was

01:02:35persistent

01:02:36he's

01:02:37knocking

01:02:37on every

01:02:38delegate's

01:02:39door to

01:02:40try and

01:02:40get them

01:02:40to support

01:02:42a strong

01:02:42international

01:02:43criminal

01:02:44court

01:02:44and the

01:02:45mantra

01:02:45that you

01:02:46hear

01:02:46when you

01:02:48interview

01:02:48him

01:02:48today

01:02:48is the

01:02:49mantra

01:02:49that he

01:02:50had

01:02:50back then

01:02:51about the

01:02:52importance

01:02:53of justice

01:02:53and the

01:02:54rule of

01:02:54law

01:02:54not only

01:02:55in international

01:02:56affairs

01:02:56but in

01:02:57the survival

01:02:57of the

01:02:58human race

01:03:07it becomes

01:03:09reachable

01:03:11in Rome

01:03:24I made

01:03:24an opening

01:03:25statement

01:03:25there

01:03:27they invited

01:03:28me because

01:03:28they knew

01:03:28me

01:03:29I went to

01:03:29all the

01:03:29meetings

01:03:30and I wrote

01:03:30papers

01:03:31I wrote

01:03:31hundreds

01:03:32dozens of

01:03:33articles

01:03:33speeches

01:03:34lectures

01:03:34nagging

01:03:35and so on

01:03:39I said

01:03:40the place

01:03:40is here

01:03:41the time

01:03:41is now

01:03:42and I

01:03:43began it

01:03:44by saying

01:03:45I have

01:03:45come to

01:03:46speak for

01:03:46those who

01:03:47cannot speak

01:03:47the victims

01:03:57well the time

01:03:58is fall

01:04:00of 2000

01:04:01we're coming

01:04:03towards the

01:04:03end of the

01:04:04Clinton

01:04:04administration

01:04:06we have a

01:04:07deadline

01:04:08which is

01:04:09December 31st

01:04:112000

01:04:11the last

01:04:12opportunity

01:04:13for any

01:04:13country

01:04:14to sign

01:04:15the Rome

01:04:16statute

01:04:17in the

01:04:18government

01:04:18I was

01:04:19working

01:04:19feverishly

01:04:20to get

01:04:20President Clinton

01:04:21to that

01:04:22decision point

01:04:23but you know

01:04:24it's a funny

01:04:25thing about

01:04:25government

01:04:26and about

01:04:26presidents

01:04:28you can do

01:04:29an enormous

01:04:29amount

01:04:30internally

01:04:30to get

01:04:31everything

01:04:31lined up

01:04:32and to

01:04:33his desk

01:04:34you know

01:04:34in big

01:04:35three ring

01:04:35binders

01:04:36where he's

01:04:37going to

01:04:37sit down

01:04:37and diligently

01:04:38consider this

01:04:40issue

01:04:40but to

01:04:41really

01:04:42trigger

01:04:42that man's

01:04:43interest

01:04:45you have

01:04:46to have

01:04:46something

01:04:46hit him

01:04:47from the

01:04:47outside

01:04:48you just

01:04:49have to

01:04:49have it

01:04:49well

01:04:50with respect

01:04:52to the

01:04:52International

01:04:53Criminal Court

01:04:54that moment

01:04:55arrived

01:04:56not on

01:04:56TV

01:04:57it arrived

01:04:59on the

01:04:59op-ed

01:04:59page of

01:05:00the

01:05:00Washington

01:05:00Post

01:05:01by two

01:05:01men

01:05:02Ben

01:05:03Ferenz

01:05:04and Robert

01:05:04McNamara

01:05:05our 50

01:05:06billion dollar

01:05:07defense

01:05:07program

01:05:07is explained

01:05:08by Secretary

01:05:09of

01:05:09Defense

01:05:10McNamara

01:05:12in the

01:05:12past year

01:05:13we've

01:05:14doubled

01:05:14the rate

01:05:14of building

01:05:15Polaris

01:05:15submarines

01:05:16one day

01:05:17I had

01:05:18a call

01:05:18my wife

01:05:19took the

01:05:20message

01:05:20she's saying

01:05:21Secretary

01:05:23McNamara

01:05:23wanted to

01:05:24talk to

01:05:24you

01:05:26and he

01:05:26said

01:05:26I want

01:05:27you to

01:05:27write

01:05:27an op-ed

01:05:28piece

01:05:28for the

01:05:29New York

01:05:29Times

01:05:29which both

01:05:30of us

01:05:31can sign

01:05:31calling on

01:05:32the United

01:05:33States

01:05:33to sign

01:05:34on to

01:05:34the

01:05:34International

01:05:35Criminal

01:05:35Court

01:05:35remember

01:05:36who these

01:05:37people are

01:05:38Ben

01:05:38Ferenz

01:05:39prosecutor

01:05:40from

01:05:41Nuremberg

01:05:42unimpeachable

01:05:43credentials

01:05:44but who's

01:05:45the other

01:05:45guy

01:05:46Robert

01:05:47McNamara

01:05:48the architect

01:05:50of the

01:05:50Vietnam War

01:05:52my response

01:05:53to him

01:05:54in practically

01:05:54these words

01:05:55I'm sure

01:05:56Mr.

01:05:56Secretary

01:05:57I think

01:05:58you realize

01:05:59that if we

01:06:00had such

01:06:00a court

01:06:00you might

01:06:01be one

01:06:01of the

01:06:01first

01:06:02defendants

01:06:03he said

01:06:04I know

01:06:04that

01:06:05I said

01:06:06then why

01:06:06do you

01:06:06ask me

01:06:07to get

01:06:08the United

01:06:08States

01:06:09to sign

01:06:09on

01:06:09he said

01:06:10I didn't

01:06:10know

01:06:11it was

01:06:11illegal

01:06:11we're

01:06:12talking

01:06:12of

01:06:12Vietnam

01:06:12War

01:06:13if I

01:06:14had

01:06:14known

01:06:14I

01:06:15wouldn't

01:06:15have

01:06:15done

01:06:15it

01:06:16I said

01:06:17okay

01:06:17I drafted

01:06:18the letter

01:06:18that was

01:06:20a very

01:06:20powerful

01:06:22partnership

01:06:24and you

01:06:25bet

01:06:25President

01:06:26Bill Clinton

01:06:27would read

01:06:27that op-ed

01:06:30and if

01:06:31there's

01:06:31anything

01:06:31anyone should

01:06:32know about

01:06:32President

01:06:33Clinton

01:06:33is

01:06:33he actually

01:06:34makes

01:06:34decisions

01:06:35at the

01:06:35last

01:06:35moment

01:06:36he makes

01:06:36good

01:06:37decisions

01:06:37but he

01:06:38does

01:06:38wait

01:06:38until

01:06:39the

01:06:39last

01:06:39moment

01:06:39and

01:06:40so

01:06:41he

01:06:42did

01:06:42finally

01:06:42reach

01:06:43that

01:06:43decision

01:06:43early

01:06:44of

01:06:44December

01:06:4531st

01:06:46and

01:06:46I

01:06:46was

01:06:47authorized

01:06:47then

01:06:47to

01:06:48go

01:06:48to

01:06:48New

01:06:48York

01:06:48and

01:06:48sign

01:06:49the

01:06:49treaty

01:06:51well

01:06:51on

01:06:51December

01:06:5230th

01:06:52I

01:06:52receive

01:06:53a

01:06:53call

01:06:54instructing

01:06:55me

01:06:55to

01:06:56get

01:06:56a

01:06:56train

01:06:57ticket

01:06:57for

01:06:57the

01:06:57next

01:06:57morning

01:06:58on

01:06:58Amtrak

01:06:58so

01:06:59that

01:06:59I'm

01:06:59in

01:06:59New

01:07:00York

01:07:00and

01:07:00it

01:07:00happened

01:07:01to

01:07:01be

01:07:01a

01:07:01huge

01:07:01snowstorm

01:07:02but

01:07:02they

01:07:03said

01:07:03the

01:07:03president

01:07:04has

01:07:04not

01:07:04made

01:07:04a

01:07:04decision

01:07:05yet

01:07:05but

01:07:05we

01:07:06want

01:07:06you

01:07:06on

01:07:06that

01:07:06train

01:07:07because

01:07:07there

01:07:07were

01:07:07no

01:07:07flights

01:07:08the

01:07:08weather

01:07:16and

01:07:17I

01:07:17still

01:07:17had

01:07:17not

01:07:18received

01:07:18the

01:07:18final

01:07:19instruction

01:07:20I'm

01:07:20riding

01:07:21up

01:07:21the

01:07:22escalator

01:07:22at

01:07:23Penn

01:07:23Station

01:07:23and

01:07:24I

01:07:25receive

01:07:25a

01:07:25call

01:07:25from

01:07:26the

01:07:26secretary

01:07:27of

01:07:27state

01:07:27Madeleine

01:07:28Albright

01:07:29my

01:07:29boss

01:07:31she

01:07:31informed

01:07:32me

01:07:32that

01:07:32the

01:07:32president

01:07:33had

01:07:33made

01:07:33the

01:07:33decision

01:07:34that

01:07:35the

01:07:35treaty

01:07:35would

01:07:35be

01:07:35signed

01:07:36and

01:07:36that

01:07:36I

01:07:37had

01:07:37authority

01:07:37now

01:07:37to

01:07:38proceed

01:07:38to

01:07:38the

01:07:38United

01:07:39Nations

01:07:39to

01:07:40sign

01:07:40the

01:07:40document

01:07:41New

01:07:42York

01:07:42City

01:07:42was

01:07:43completely

01:07:43covered

01:07:43by

01:07:44snow

01:07:44there

01:07:44were

01:07:44no

01:07:44taxis

01:07:45running

01:07:45and

01:07:46so

01:07:46I

01:07:46had

01:07:47my

01:07:47snow

01:07:48boots

01:07:48on

01:07:48and

01:07:48I

01:07:48hiked

01:07:49from

01:07:49Penn

01:07:49Station

01:07:49to

01:07:50the

01:07:50United

01:07:50Nations

01:07:50the

01:07:51UN

01:07:51had

01:07:51to

01:07:52open

01:07:52just

01:07:53for

01:07:53me

01:07:53to

01:07:54walk

01:07:54in

01:07:54and

01:07:55sign

01:07:55the

01:07:55treaty

01:07:55because

01:07:56it

01:07:56was

01:07:56closed

01:07:56that

01:07:56day

01:07:57it

01:07:57was

01:07:57New

01:07:57Year's

01:07:57Eve

01:07:57they

01:07:58close

01:07:59at

01:07:59the

01:07:59UN

01:07:59and

01:08:00I

01:08:00walked

01:08:01in

01:08:01to

01:08:01the

01:08:02room

01:08:02where

01:08:03treaties

01:08:03are

01:08:04signed

01:08:05and

01:08:05there

01:08:06was

01:08:06a

01:08:06very

01:08:06small

01:08:07group

01:08:07of

01:08:07people

01:08:18unfortunately

01:08:23what

01:08:24George W

01:08:25Bush

01:08:25did

01:08:25was

01:08:26that

01:08:26he

01:08:26said

01:08:26with

01:08:27respect

01:08:27to

01:08:27that

01:08:28signature

01:08:28on

01:08:28the

01:08:28treaty

01:08:29we're

01:08:30no

01:08:30longer

01:08:30going

01:08:30to

01:08:31perform

01:08:31our

01:08:31obligation

01:08:32as

01:08:32a

01:08:32signatory

01:08:33state

01:08:33so

01:08:34that

01:08:34was

01:08:35the

01:08:35downslide

01:08:36after

01:08:36the

01:08:36Clinton

01:08:37administration

01:08:37much

01:08:38to

01:08:38my

01:08:38regret

01:08:38and

01:08:39that's

01:08:40a

01:08:40political

01:08:40process

01:08:41or

01:08:41as

01:08:42Churchill

01:08:42reported

01:08:43to

01:08:43have

01:08:43said

01:08:44it's

01:08:44a

01:08:44terrible

01:08:45system

01:08:45but

01:08:46you

01:08:46can't

01:08:46think

01:08:46of

01:08:46a

01:08:46better

01:08:47one

01:09:13when

01:09:13we

01:09:14started

01:09:14this

01:09:14every

01:09:15time

01:09:15we

01:09:15met

01:09:15with

01:09:16a

01:09:16UN

01:09:17leader

01:09:17or

01:09:17government

01:09:18they

01:09:18said

01:09:18well

01:09:18work

01:09:18on

01:09:19this

01:09:19but

01:09:19it'll

01:09:20never

01:09:20happen

01:09:20not

01:09:21in

01:09:21your

01:09:21lifetime

01:09:21not

01:09:21in

01:09:22your

01:09:22children's

01:09:22lifetime

01:09:23and

01:09:23less

01:09:24than

01:09:24four

01:09:24years

01:09:24later

01:09:25we

01:09:25had

01:09:25a

01:09:26treaty

01:09:26then

01:09:27we

01:09:27were

01:09:27told

01:09:27the

01:09:27treaty

01:09:28would

01:09:28take

01:09:2920

01:09:2925

01:09:30years

01:09:30like

01:09:30the

01:09:30law

01:09:31of

01:09:31the

01:09:31sea

01:09:31to

01:09:31get

01:09:3160

01:09:32ratifications

01:09:33again

01:09:33four

01:09:33years

01:09:34later

01:09:34we

01:09:34had

01:09:34that

01:09:36it

01:09:36is

01:09:37simply

01:09:37not

01:09:38plausible

01:09:39anymore

01:09:39to

01:09:40argue

01:09:40that

01:09:41any

01:09:42political

01:09:42or

01:09:43military

01:09:43leader

01:09:44who

01:09:44is

01:09:44responsible

01:09:45for the

01:09:46commission

01:09:46of

01:09:47atrocity

01:09:47crimes

01:09:48has

01:09:49the

01:09:49right

01:09:50to

01:09:50get

01:09:50away

01:09:51with

01:09:51it

01:09:51Nuremberg

01:09:52started

01:09:53that

01:09:53process

01:09:54we

01:09:54got

01:09:54detracted

01:09:55by

01:09:55the

01:09:55cold

01:09:55war

01:09:55the

01:09:56cold

01:09:57war

01:09:57ended

01:09:57we

01:09:58regenerated

01:09:59the

01:09:59process

01:10:00in

01:10:01order

01:10:01to

01:10:01hold

01:10:01these

01:10:02individuals

01:10:02responsible

01:10:03and

01:10:04to

01:10:04send

01:10:04a

01:10:04loud

01:10:05and

01:10:05clear

01:10:05signal

01:10:05you

01:10:06are

01:10:06subject

01:10:07to

01:10:07criminal

01:10:08law

01:10:08period

01:10:08and

01:10:09you

01:10:10cannot

01:10:10negotiate

01:10:10your

01:10:11way

01:10:11out

01:10:11of

01:10:11it

01:10:13may

01:10:13it

01:10:14please

01:10:14your

01:10:14honors

01:10:16this

01:10:17is a

01:10:17historic

01:10:18moment

01:10:18in the

01:10:19evolution

01:10:20of

01:10:21international

01:10:21criminal

01:10:22law

01:10:23for the

01:10:24first

01:10:24time

01:10:25a

01:10:25permanent

01:10:26international

01:10:26criminal

01:10:27court

01:10:27will hear

01:10:29the closing

01:10:29statement

01:10:30for the

01:10:30prosecution

01:10:31as it

01:10:32concludes

01:10:32its

01:10:33first

01:10:33case

01:10:34against

01:10:34its

01:10:35first

01:10:35accused

01:10:36Mr.

01:10:37Thomas

01:10:37Lubongo

01:10:38D.

01:10:39When the

01:10:40court

01:10:40finally

01:10:40gets

01:10:41its

01:10:41first

01:10:41case

01:10:42they

01:10:42asked

01:10:42me

01:10:42to

01:10:42do

01:10:43the

01:10:43closing

01:10:43statement

01:10:43I'm

01:10:4492

01:10:44years

01:10:44old

01:10:46this

01:10:46is

01:10:46against

01:10:46a guy

01:10:47who had

01:10:47been

01:10:47using

01:10:48child

01:10:48soldiers

01:10:50they go

01:10:50and say

01:10:50give us

01:10:51food

01:10:51give us

01:10:52money

01:10:52and if

01:10:53you have

01:10:53no money

01:10:53to give

01:10:54them

01:10:54and no

01:10:54food

01:10:54they

01:10:54don't

01:10:55you

01:10:55got a

01:10:55couple

01:10:56of

01:10:56kids

01:10:56we'll

01:10:56take

01:10:56the

01:10:56kids

01:10:57and

01:10:57they

01:10:57were

01:10:58taking

01:10:58kids

01:10:5813

01:10:5914

01:10:59and

01:11:00the

01:11:00boys

01:11:01they

01:11:01taught

01:11:01them

01:11:01how

01:11:01to

01:11:01use

01:11:01a

01:11:02gun

01:11:02the

01:11:02kids

01:11:02loved

01:11:02the

01:11:03excitement

01:11:03of

01:11:03that

01:11:04and

01:11:04they

01:11:04taught

01:11:04them

01:11:05how

01:11:05to

01:11:05kill

01:11:05and

01:11:06that

01:11:06happens

01:11:06to be

01:11:06a war

01:11:07crime

01:11:08when the

01:11:08statute

01:11:09that binds

01:11:09this court

01:11:11was overwhelmingly

01:11:12approved

01:11:14over a hundred

01:11:15sovereign states

01:11:16decided

01:11:17that child

01:11:18recruitment

01:11:19and forcing

01:11:20them to

01:11:20participate

01:11:21in hostilities

01:11:23were

01:11:23and I'm quoting

01:11:24now from the

01:11:25statute

01:11:25among the

01:11:26most serious

01:11:27crimes

01:11:28of concern

01:11:29for the

01:11:29international

01:11:30community

01:11:30as a whole

01:11:31this was the

01:11:33first

01:11:33ICC

01:11:34case

01:11:34and I

01:11:35believe that

01:11:36it was only

01:11:36fitting

01:11:37that from

01:11:38Nuremberg

01:11:39Ben

01:11:40Ferenc

01:11:40to the

01:11:41Hague

01:11:41it was only

01:11:43fitting that

01:11:43he would be

01:11:44called

01:11:44to do the

01:11:45closing remarks

01:11:46of this

01:11:47historic

01:11:48case

01:11:49what makes

01:11:51this court

01:11:52so distinctive

01:11:54is its

01:11:55primary goal

01:11:56to deter

01:11:57crimes

01:11:58before they

01:11:59take place

01:12:00by letting

01:12:01wrongdoers

01:12:02know in

01:12:02advance

01:12:03that they

01:12:04will be

01:12:05called to

01:12:05account

01:12:05by an

01:12:07impartial

01:12:07international

01:12:08criminal

01:12:09court

01:12:09it's not an

01:12:10easy feat

01:12:11to create

01:12:11an institution

01:12:12like this

01:12:13it requires

01:12:14courage

01:12:14it requires

01:12:15leadership

01:12:15it requires

01:12:16the right

01:12:16moment in

01:12:17historical

01:12:18perspective

01:12:19it requires

01:12:20political will

01:12:21without Ben

01:12:23his contribution

01:12:24and people

01:12:25like him

01:12:25this field

01:12:26will not have

01:12:27evolved the

01:12:27way that he

01:12:27has

01:12:28we still have

01:12:28a long way

01:12:29to go

01:12:29but it's

01:12:30still an

01:12:30incredible

01:12:30achievement

01:12:31Ben has

01:12:32played a

01:12:32critical role

01:12:33in the

01:12:33evolution of

01:12:34international

01:12:34criminal justice

01:12:35and in the

01:12:36creation of

01:12:36the ICC

01:12:37Rome's

01:12:38statute for

01:12:38the

01:12:38international

01:12:39criminal

01:12:39court

01:12:39is one

01:12:40of the

01:12:41strongest

01:12:41if not

01:12:42the strongest

01:12:42international

01:12:43law

01:12:43treaty

01:12:44since the

01:12:45end of

01:12:45World War

01:12:46II

01:12:46you now

01:12:47have an

01:12:48institution

01:12:48in the

01:12:49Hague

01:12:49to hold

01:12:50individuals

01:12:51no matter

01:12:52who they are

01:12:53responsible

01:12:53for committing

01:12:54these worst

01:12:54crimes

01:12:55and that's

01:12:56something to

01:12:56continue to

01:12:57be very

01:12:58positive about

01:12:59and to do

01:13:00everything you

01:13:01can to make

01:13:01it work

01:13:03but the job

01:13:04is not done

01:13:04and now we

01:13:05need to

01:13:06persuade

01:13:08all the states

01:13:09to be part of

01:13:10this ICC

01:13:15the United States

01:13:16has signed

01:13:17the Rome

01:13:17statute and

01:13:18the signature

01:13:18is still

01:13:18there

01:13:19the problem

01:13:20is we

01:13:21are not

01:13:22a ratified

01:13:23party to

01:13:24the Rome

01:13:25statute

01:13:25you know

01:13:27this is part

01:13:27of a much

01:13:28larger picture

01:13:29in America

01:13:30we often

01:13:31describe

01:13:32ourselves

01:13:32as the

01:13:33exceptional

01:13:33nation

01:13:34we

01:13:35discipline

01:13:35ourselves

01:13:37but we're

01:13:38not eager

01:13:39to have

01:13:40any

01:13:40international

01:13:40regime

01:13:41with supreme

01:13:42authority

01:13:44discipline us

01:13:45the attitude

01:13:47is well

01:13:47the United

01:13:48States does

01:13:48this already

01:13:49or the United

01:13:49States Constitution

01:13:50already has

01:13:51these protections

01:13:52in it

01:13:52why should we

01:13:53sacrifice any

01:13:54of that to

01:13:55an international

01:13:55regime of

01:13:56any character

01:13:57why because

01:13:58we're the

01:13:59exceptional

01:13:59nation

01:14:00we will

01:14:00meet all

01:14:01of these

01:14:01standards

01:14:01but we

01:14:02meet them

01:14:02on our

01:14:03terms

01:14:03not on

01:14:04the terms

01:14:05being dictated

01:14:06from an

01:14:07international

01:14:07body

01:14:08from the

01:14:09outset

01:14:09the United

01:14:10States

01:14:10was concerned

01:14:11that maybe

01:14:12it wouldn't

01:14:12always be

01:14:13objective

01:14:13that since

01:14:15we were

01:14:15doing a lot

01:14:16of the

01:14:16peacekeeping

01:14:17and the

01:14:18intervening

01:14:18maybe we'd

01:14:20be held

01:14:20specifically

01:14:21specially

01:14:22accountable

01:14:23by rival

01:14:24powers

01:14:25who were

01:14:27on the

01:14:27other side

01:14:28either

01:14:29overtly

01:14:30or covertly

01:14:31and so

01:14:32we couldn't

01:14:33go along

01:14:34U.S.

01:14:35policy makers

01:14:36will say

01:14:37it's fine

01:14:38for the

01:14:39Belgians

01:14:39and the

01:14:40Brazilians

01:14:42but we're

01:14:43the greatest

01:14:43country on

01:14:44earth

01:14:45we don't

01:14:46need to

01:14:46be subject

01:14:47to the

01:14:48same law

01:14:49that applies

01:14:51to everyone

01:14:51else

01:14:52and that's

01:14:53true for

01:14:53Russia

01:14:53it's true

01:14:54for China

01:14:54it's true

01:14:55for Pakistan

01:14:55and India

01:14:56and Israel

01:14:57and Indonesia

01:15:00and most

01:15:01of the Arab

01:15:02world

01:15:02and we're

01:15:03just not

01:15:04there yet

01:15:04there are

01:15:05124 countries

01:15:06that have

01:15:07joined the

01:15:08International

01:15:08Criminal Court

01:15:09that's unfortunate

01:15:11it's a loss

01:15:13in credibility

01:15:14in terms of

01:15:15U.S.

01:15:17policy

01:15:17when these

01:15:19crimes arise

01:15:20anywhere in

01:15:21the world

01:15:23no country

01:15:25which prefers

01:15:26to use

01:15:27its power

01:15:27rather than

01:15:28the rule of

01:15:28law

01:15:28would vote

01:15:29for the

01:15:29rule of

01:15:29law

01:15:30that's

01:15:30logical

01:15:31that's

01:15:32still

01:15:32the

01:15:33situation

01:15:33today

01:15:33there

01:15:34are

01:15:34some

01:15:35people

01:15:35who

01:15:35do

01:15:35not

01:15:36trust

01:15:36the

01:15:36rule

01:15:36of

01:15:36law

01:15:37and

01:15:38they

01:15:38prefer

01:15:38to

01:15:39use

01:15:39military

01:15:39power

01:15:40to achieve

01:15:40their goals

01:15:41as they

01:15:41decide

01:15:42and when

01:15:42they decide

01:15:43they should

01:15:43that's led

01:15:44by the United

01:15:45States

01:15:45to which

01:15:46China replies

01:15:47when you're

01:15:48ready to

01:15:48change

01:15:49and give

01:15:49it up

01:15:49come see

01:15:50me

01:15:50we'll talk

01:15:51about it

01:15:51then

01:15:51and the

01:15:52Russians

01:15:53say

01:15:53we're not

01:15:53trusting

01:15:54you

01:15:54we don't

01:15:54trust

01:15:55anybody

01:15:55so we

01:15:56have

01:15:56this

01:15:57political

01:15:57tension

01:15:58still exists

01:15:58in the

01:15:59world

01:15:59and they're

01:16:00still

01:16:00talking

01:16:00about

01:16:01using

01:16:01weaponry

01:16:02to settle

01:16:03their disputes

01:16:03not seeming

01:16:05to realize

01:16:05how very

01:16:06devastating

01:16:07and dangerous

01:16:08that is

01:16:09to themselves

01:16:10and to

01:16:11their people

01:16:13it's

01:16:14decisive

01:16:15war

01:16:16will make

01:16:16mass

01:16:17murderers

01:16:18out of

01:16:18otherwise

01:16:19decent

01:16:19people

01:16:20and I

01:16:20have seen

01:16:20it again

01:16:21and again

01:16:22and again

01:16:22and it's

01:16:23inevitable

01:16:23they become

01:16:24mass

01:16:25murderers

01:16:26whether they

01:16:26are Americans

01:16:27or they're

01:16:27Germans

01:16:28or anybody

01:16:28else

01:16:30that's

01:16:30the effect

01:16:30of war

01:16:31my answer

01:16:32to that

01:16:32is

01:16:33stop

01:16:33war

01:16:34making

01:16:35well

01:16:35how are you

01:16:35going to

01:16:36stop

01:16:36war

01:16:36making

01:16:36it's been

01:16:37glorified

01:16:37for centuries

01:16:38yes it has

01:16:39been glorified

01:16:40it's time to

01:16:41stop

01:16:41before you

01:16:42kill everybody

01:16:43and we're

01:16:44on that path

01:16:45too so you've

01:16:45got to make up

01:16:46your mind

01:16:46either you're

01:16:47going to try

01:16:47to behave

01:16:48in a humane

01:16:49and rational

01:16:49way

01:16:50or you're

01:16:50going to

01:16:51kill everybody

01:16:51goodbye kids

01:16:52I'm 95

01:16:53years

01:16:5398 years

01:16:54old

01:16:54not my

01:16:55world

01:16:56that's my

01:16:57message

01:16:59from the

01:17:00examples that

01:17:00Ben has

01:17:01given all

01:17:02of us

01:17:02he has

01:17:03never

01:17:04wavered

01:17:04never

01:17:05he believes

01:17:07that we can

01:17:07achieve

01:17:08justice

01:17:09for humanity

01:17:10this is

01:17:12one person

01:17:13you know

01:17:14one great

01:17:15man

01:17:15in here

01:17:17in history

01:17:18who's

01:17:19continues

01:17:20to give

01:17:21his best

01:17:22who continues

01:17:23to show

01:17:23his commitment

01:17:24who continues

01:17:25to show

01:17:26that this

01:17:26world can

01:17:27be better

01:17:28I don't

01:17:29think a

01:17:29personal

01:17:30legacy

01:17:30is important

01:17:31to him

01:17:32I think

01:17:32it is

01:17:32important

01:17:33to him

01:17:33that we

01:17:35advance

01:17:35the rule

01:17:36of law

01:17:36advance

01:17:37the ball

01:17:37for all

01:17:37humankind

01:17:38diminish

01:17:39suffering

01:17:39good

01:17:40good

01:17:41afternoon

01:17:41young

01:17:41lady

01:17:44Ben's

01:17:47presence

01:17:48and

01:17:48his

01:17:49tireless

01:17:50efforts

01:17:50are

01:17:51still

01:17:52needed

01:17:52in reminding

01:17:53us

01:17:54of

01:17:54Nuremberg

01:17:55and the

01:17:55good

01:17:55thing

01:17:55that

01:17:56was

01:17:56started

01:17:56there

01:17:57to be

01:17:57continued

01:17:57today

01:17:58and be

01:17:58brought

01:17:59into

01:17:59these

01:18:00new

01:18:00institutions

01:18:04I think

01:18:04this is what

01:18:04keeps him

01:18:05going

01:18:05keeps him

01:18:05young

01:18:06you know

01:18:06he's very

01:18:07committed

01:18:07to this

01:18:07idea

01:18:08that law

01:18:09as you

01:18:09know

01:18:09is better

01:18:09than war

01:18:13I work

01:18:15incredible

01:18:16hours

01:18:16I work

01:18:18starting

01:18:18sometimes

01:18:197 o'clock

01:18:19in the morning

01:18:20until 10 o'clock

01:18:20at night

01:18:21I don't know

01:18:22what a holiday

01:18:22is

01:18:23I don't know

01:18:23what retirement

01:18:24means

01:18:24I have no

01:18:25desire to go

01:18:26play golf

01:18:27or to go

01:18:28fishing

01:18:28things that

01:18:29normal people

01:18:30do

01:18:30when they

01:18:31retire

01:18:34I mean

01:18:34if all

01:18:35he had

01:18:35done

01:18:35was argue

01:18:37at the age

01:18:37of 27

01:18:38in front

01:18:38of the

01:18:38Nuremberg

01:18:39Tribunal

01:18:40I would

01:18:41have said

01:18:41that's a

01:18:42remarkable

01:18:43person

01:18:43to go

01:18:44on

01:18:45and use

01:18:45that

01:18:46as the

01:18:46fire

01:18:47that ignites

01:18:48his soul

01:18:48and his

01:18:49brain

01:18:49on behalf

01:18:50of humanity

01:18:50is what

01:18:52makes him

01:18:52an iconic

01:18:53figure

01:18:53and the

01:18:54reason

01:18:55it's iconic

01:18:55is because

01:18:56he never

01:18:56forgot

01:18:57what he

01:18:57saw

01:18:58and heard

01:18:58and he's

01:18:59used it

01:19:00to make

01:19:00it better

01:19:00not for

01:19:01him

01:19:01for everybody

01:19:03else

01:19:03so he's

01:19:04a conscience

01:19:04he's a roving

01:19:06conscience

01:19:06that says

01:19:07to people

01:19:08this isn't

01:19:09right

01:19:10you can't

01:19:11do this

01:19:11this is wrong

01:19:16I consider

01:19:17myself

01:19:18very fortunate

01:19:19to have

01:19:20been

01:19:20able

01:19:21to

01:19:21go from

01:19:22rags to

01:19:23riches

01:19:23to have

01:19:24been married

01:19:25to a woman

01:19:26with whom

01:19:26I've never

01:19:27had a quarrel

01:19:28and she's

01:19:2898 years old

01:19:30we've been

01:19:31married for

01:19:32over 71

01:19:32years

01:19:36I've survived

01:19:37the battles

01:19:37of war

01:19:42so life

01:19:43has been

01:19:44good to

01:19:44me

01:19:47and I

01:19:48have no

01:19:50wish

01:19:51other than

01:19:51to serve

01:19:52the United

01:19:53States

01:19:54and the

01:19:54world

01:19:54by trying

01:19:57to make

01:19:57it a more

01:19:58humane

01:19:58and peaceful

01:20:00world order

01:20:01that's my

01:20:02goal in

01:20:02life

01:20:02love

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended