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00:00Their dog bit yours.
00:02Her German shepherd literally bolted out the door.
00:05My dog does not leave my property.
00:06Is that what you want me to believe?
00:08You saw absolutely no confrontation whatsoever.
00:12No.
00:13The fact that you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
00:17This is Judy Justice.
00:37Lisa and Abby Kreider are suing their neighbor, Julie Saw, for vet bills from a dog attack.
00:45Court come to order?
00:46All rise.
00:48Have a seat, please.
00:50Judge, case 4037, Kreider vs. Saw.
00:53You're welcome.
00:53Ms. Kreider, it is your claim that the defendant's dog that was unleashed attacked yours, injured your dog.
01:01Yes.
01:02Fortunately, your dog is okay.
01:03Yes.
01:04But you want her to be responsible for the vet bills.
01:06Yes.
01:07I'm not exactly sure what her defense is.
01:09We're going to find out.
01:10When did this incident happen?
01:11November 24th, 2023.
01:14What time of the day?
01:154, 4.30.
01:16And do you live close proximity to one another?
01:20Yeah, right around that corner.
01:21How far?
01:22Maybe half a mile.
01:23What kind of a dog do you have?
01:25An Australian cattle dog.
01:26What do they look like?
01:27Could I see a picture?
01:28Um, sure.
01:28I have some pictures here.
01:31Should I just give you all of them?
01:33That shows the wound, too.
01:38So it's a dog that probably weighs about 40 pounds?
01:41Yeah, about 35.
01:43Yeah.
01:43How old is the dog?
01:44Nine years.
01:45And how long have you lived half a mile away from each other?
01:48I don't know how long she's lived there, but I've lived there since 94.
01:51How long have you been in your home?
01:54Twelve years.
01:55And you have?
01:56I have a German Shepherd.
01:57How old?
01:58She's six.
01:59Okay, tell me what happened.
02:00You were walking the dog.
02:02Yes.
02:02I had two dogs, actually.
02:03I was walking them, and I was walking up the sidewalk next to her house.
02:07Which two dogs were you walking?
02:09I was walking Sadie, which is the dog that got bit.
02:12And we had another dog.
02:13Her name was Willow.
02:14She was a schnauzer, but nothing.
02:15She didn't get bit or anything.
02:17Both of your dogs on leash?
02:19Yes, they were on the leash.
02:20Go ahead.
02:21I was walking up the sidewalk, and her German Shepherd literally bolted out the door,
02:26so I tried to move.
02:28Did you see the dog bolt out the door?
02:29Yes.
02:30Front door.
02:31Yes.
02:31I tried to move into the road.
02:33The dog followed, because I was trying to get away from it, because I didn't know if it was aggressive
02:36or anything.
02:37She bit Sadie.
02:38Tell me exactly how that came about.
02:40The German Shepherd probably weighs about 60 pounds.
02:4380.
02:4480.
02:45So it's a much bigger dog.
02:46How did she bite Sadie?
02:47And I see this is the drain.
02:50Must be the drain.
02:51So she was sort of bitten on the underbelly?
02:53Yes.
02:54How did that happen?
02:55They were in the road.
02:56The dog came up, and I don't know if she was like, she was like sniffing them,
03:00and I was trying to move to like kind of black, but I didn't want to hit the dog or
03:03anything,
03:04because I didn't want to get bit.
03:05And she bit her in the stomach.
03:06I heard Sadie yelp, and then somebody came out of the house and called their dog.
03:11Who?
03:12Was it this lady?
03:13No, it was not.
03:14Who came out of the house and got the dog back?
03:17My ex-husband.
03:18We both came to the door.
03:19My ex-husband went out.
03:20Were you home?
03:20Yes.
03:21Does your ex-husband live there?
03:23No.
03:24He was visiting?
03:25Mm-hmm.
03:25Who?
03:25My son.
03:26How old is your son?
03:28He's 12.
03:28Had he just arrived?
03:30Yes, a few minutes before.
03:32Did he let himself into the house?
03:33Yes.
03:34Careful.
03:35You don't know where I'm going.
03:36Okay.
03:36Did your ex-husband let himself into your home?
03:39Yes, he let himself into my home.
03:41And he came in through the front door?
03:43Yes.
03:44You have a screen door.
03:45I have a glass front door.
03:47It's quite heavy.
03:48Evidently not heavy enough.
03:49Do you have just one door in the front?
03:51No, there is a security door, a steel door.
03:54And then there's the glass door where a screen door would be.
03:57Okay.
03:58So instead of a screen, it's a glass door?
04:01Yes.
04:01Now, before your ex-husband got there, were both doors closed?
04:05No.
04:05The security door was open.
04:07The glass door was in place.
04:09And it latches heavily.
04:11It's a very heavy door.
04:12Not heavy enough?
04:13It always latches.
04:15Well, then somebody let your dog out.
04:17My dog knows how to open the door.
04:18Well, then you should keep both doors closed.
04:21If your dog knows how to open the door, you mean with its paw?
04:25She can open it with her paw.
04:27She with her paw.
04:27That would be your problem.
04:29Have you seen that happen before?
04:31My dog does not leave my property.
04:32Listen to me.
04:33Have I seen my dog open a door?
04:35That was my question.
04:37Yes, ma'am.
04:38Okay.
04:38So if you know that your dog can get out of the door by itself,
04:45has it done that before?
04:47No.
04:47So despite the fact that you've seen that it can, in fact, open the door,
04:53you've never actually seen the dog open the door and run outside before?
04:59No.
04:59This was the first time she did it?
05:02Yes.
05:02Is it female?
05:03Yes.
05:03Well, the knowledge that you have, that the dog can open the door by herself, how did
05:10you acquire that knowledge?
05:12My dog is a very highly trained animal.
05:14No, no, no.
05:14She's trained.
05:15How?
05:16She's trained to open the door?
05:17Yes, she is trained in many things.
05:19But yes, she is trained.
05:20You know you're annoying me.
05:22I'm sorry.
05:23Okay, let's try again to not dislike each other.
05:26How do you know that the dog can open the door by itself without going outside?
05:33Have you seen that?
05:34I've actually seen a dog open a door by itself and run outside, but it opens the door with its
05:41paw
05:43and scoots outside. I've seen that many times. We had a dog in the family that did that,
05:48but I never saw one that opened the door and then just sat inside. So what I'm asking you is,
05:55if it's never run out before, how do you know that it can open the door? Have you seen it
06:00open
06:00the door with a latch and just sit inside the house? Is that what you've seen? Is that what
06:05you want me to believe?
06:06No, it is not.
06:07So then I want you to tell me, how do you know the dog can open the door by itself?
06:15The fact that you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It could have been by the time
06:22you were getting your rear end out of bed to see who came in or who left your house.
06:28And later today...
06:29In what month did you get the dog back?
06:32June.
06:33So the same month that he purchased the dog?
06:36Correct. 17 days later.
06:37Now is the question of the day. Where did you get the dog from?
06:41Don't look up here. Look at me.
06:52Lisa and Abby Kreider claimed their neighbor, Julia Saw, owes for vet bills after her German
06:59shepherd attacked their dog. How do you know the dog can open the door by itself?
07:06It has come out of lever doors with me, me accompanying the dog.
07:10On leash or off?
07:11All of my doors have levers, so...
07:14That's not what I said. I said on leash or off?
07:17Off leash. Off leash.
07:19Off leash. So what you do is you stand there with your dog, let the dog open the door for
07:25you,
07:25and you and the dog go out together.
07:28Yes. Into my backyard, yes. Which is fenced in.
07:33Okay. After her dog got out by itself or her ex-husband just opened the door and let it go
07:41out,
07:42I'm not sure which one, came outside, bit your dog, there was a man who called the dog back inside?
07:47Well, then he probably let the dog out. And what happened next?
07:51As soon as he called the dog, the dog went right back to the door. I was crying.
07:55Where exactly were you physically when their dog bit yours?
08:01I was in the road.
08:03Where the cars are?
08:05To their house, yeah.
08:06And that's where their dog was when her ex-husband called her back inside?
08:12Did he say anything to you?
08:14I had kind of started going back towards my house. I had called my mom and then I called the
08:19police
08:20before he had said anything to me. And the police told me just to go home. So I heard him.
08:24Like, he kind of yelled at me from down the block, but I didn't respond to him.
08:27What did he yell?
08:28I don't know what he said.
08:30You saw him?
08:31Yes.
08:32Did you ever see her?
08:33No.
08:33Okay.
08:35And this was in the afternoon?
08:37Yes.
08:37About 4 o'clock. Is that right? It was about 4 o'clock?
08:40Yes, ma'am.
08:41Okay. And your ex-husband had arrived briefly before. How many minutes before?
08:47I would say around 15 minutes.
08:49And where exactly were you in the house after 15 minutes with your ex-husband?
08:53I had been lying down.
08:55Where?
08:55In the bedroom, right off my front room.
08:58And is that where he was as well?
09:00Yes. He was in the hallway to that bedroom. Yes.
09:04So now you're lying in bed. Your ex-husband got there about 15 minutes before.
09:10And he's chatting with you from the hallway while you're lying in bed.
09:14Mm-hmm.
09:15Pick it up from there.
09:16Okay. I heard a door latch. So I assumed it was my son coming in to see his father.
09:22Just a second. Go ahead.
09:24And what is in her greeting, I said, is our son here?
09:29And just a second. I'm going to love this part.
09:34Okay.
09:34Okay.
09:35So you heard a door latch.
09:37Mm-hmm.
09:38Let's go slowly. Go ahead. You heard the door latch. You thought it was your son.
09:42Mm-hmm.
09:42And next.
09:44It was not my son coming in. He did not greet us.
09:47So I said, where is the dog? And we both went to the front door together.
09:51Okay. And you said to him, where's the dog?
09:54Yes.
09:55And then you got out of bed.
09:56Yes.
09:57Just a second. And then you got out of bed and he waited for you.
10:01Mm-hmm.
10:02So you got out of bed and he waited for you.
10:06Mm-hmm.
10:07You walked to the front door.
10:09Mm-hmm.
10:09And?
10:10And we both, we both opened the front door and looked out.
10:14My dog was under my willow tree in the front yard of my house.
10:19And their animal was also in my front yard.
10:23And they were barking. Their dog was barking at my dog.
10:28My dog gave a warning bark. I called her into the house. She came in.
10:32My ex-husband called out to this lady who was walking down the dog and the lady were walking away.
10:38He said, hey, are you all right? You know, everything good?
10:42And got no response.
10:45So we looked at my dog. She didn't seem to have any kind of...
10:49Okay. Let me just follow, let me just follow what you're trying to sell me.
10:53Let me try by what you're trying to sell me. Ex-husband is chatting with you while you're lying in
10:58your bed.
10:59You think your son came in, but you're waiting for him to come in. He doesn't come in.
11:03Well, now you're lying there. But now the door is open and closed, waiting for the kid doesn't come in.
11:08That's 30 seconds. That's a minute. You said to your ex-husband, where's the dog?
11:12He said, I don't know.
11:13You get out of bed, and what you're telling me is you came out. You didn't go get the dog,
11:21because the dog is your dog, not his dog, because the dog lives with you.
11:24Yes.
11:24He opened the door, but you told him to wait while you got out of bed so that you could
11:29go look for
11:29the dog together. This well-trained dog that you say doesn't leave your property, so you're in no big
11:35rush to go out and find the dog. And you saw your dog sitting under your willow tree.
11:40Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.
11:41Okay. Uh-huh is not an answer. Yes. Yes is the answer.
11:45Yes, ma'am.
11:46You saw your dog sitting under your willow tree, and you didn't see any confrontation whatsoever
11:51between the two dogs, and you did not see her in the middle of the road. I want you to
11:57tell me
11:57if that's what you want me to buy.
12:00I saw the dogs barking, and then I saw her walking on the pavement.
12:04I said to you, you did not see her in the middle of the road,
12:10or your dog in the middle of the road.
12:12They were not in the road.
12:13You did not. Ms. Sa, the fact that you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Do you understand?
12:19Ms. Sa, the fact that you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It could have been by the
12:25time you were getting your rear end out of bed to get to your ex-husband in the hallway,
12:30to get to the front to see who came in or who left your house. Lots of things could have
12:36happened in
12:36those 30 seconds, 20 seconds by the time you got outside. If I think you got outside, because
12:45actually, I don't believe you got yourself out of bed at all. I think your ex-husband came out,
12:50looked outside, and did exactly what you said he did. By the way, ex-husband's not here?
12:55Ms. No.
12:56Ms. No. He's not incarcerated, is he?
12:59Ms. No.
12:59Ms. He's not in the military, is he?
13:01Ms. No.
13:01Ms. No. Well, then if he's not incarcerated, he's not in the military,
13:04you're allowed to bring a witness. And he was clearly a witness.
13:08Ms. Whatever conversation they had, and clearly you're on good terms with him,
13:12so he could have accompanied you, because you saw diddly, nothing. You saw no interaction. Now,
13:19the dog was injured, their dog on leash, your dog unaccompanied outside. And according to you,
13:28you knew the dog could get out of that latch door, and did nothing to prevent the dog from getting
13:34outside like closing the inside door. That's your responsibility.
13:38And later today...
13:40Ms. I don't believe a word that you just said to me.
13:43If you bring a litter in, and the responsible thing to do is to have them neutered,
13:48why would you neuter seven and not neuter his? I don't believe what you just said to me.
13:54Okay. Well...
13:55Ms. I don't believe a word you just said to me.
13:57Ms. Lisa and Abby Kreider claimed their neighbor, Julia Saw,
14:11owes for vet bills after her German Shepherd attacked their dog.
14:15Okay. You're still leaving the door unlatched, and only the glass door latched,
14:19or do you make it your business to close both doors?
14:22Ms. I always deadbolt my door.
14:24Yeah. $775. Checking for the plaintiff. Thank you very much.
14:29This court is adjourned.
14:35I'm just happy that no one was seriously injured.
14:38I just expected her to do the right thing and pay the bill, and she obviously did not.
14:42This is a non-event. The police considered it a non-event. I didn't even get a ticket.
14:46It was really scary, and I haven't walked by her house since when I take my dogs on walks.
14:51Ms. Your cousin had, as you know, a couple of huskies, and they're really smart.
14:56I remember her sending us a video of one of her dogs opening the front door and getting outside,
15:03because she had cameras in the house when she was at work.
15:06To her fenced little backyard to go to the restroom, though.
15:09Ms. Yeah, it was a smart dog. But once you know that the dog has that capacity,
15:13for not only others, but also for your dog's safety...
15:17Yeah. It's on you to remedy that if it's a problem.
15:19It's on both doors. Animals are clever. They're very clever. But then it's your responsibility
15:23to take care of it.
15:25Extra precautions.
15:26Right.
15:26Yeah.
15:27Case number 4033, Waterman versus Crowell. All parties, please come forward.
15:31Lawrence Waterman is suing dog rescue owner,
15:35Rose Crowell, for a refund after selling him a dangerous dog.
15:40Mr. Waterman, what you're asking for is the money back that you paid the defendant for a dog,
15:45that you claim was a vicious dog. I don't know if that's true or not.
15:50You had the dog for a very short period of time, a couple of days you let her...
15:54No, a couple of weeks, Your Honor.
15:55Well, you had the dog a couple of days, according to your complaint,
15:58when you called her and let her know that there were problems with the dog.
16:01Correct.
16:02And according to you, she said,
16:04well, give the dog some chicken. And you did. And ultimately, what did you do with the dog?
16:09Ultimately, I gave the dog back to her.
16:11To her?
16:12Yes.
16:13Okay. That's what I want to know. And when he gave the dog back to you, what did you do
16:18with the dog?
16:19The dog is now at my home.
16:20Is it your house?
16:22Yes, it is.
16:22Okay. Did you find this dog through an ad and where?
16:27I went to Marketplace on Facebook and there was an ad for Corgis, because that's what my daughter wanted.
16:33Do you have the ad, by the way?
16:35No, I don't.
16:36You don't.
16:36On what date did you do?
16:37That was the fourth, I called her.
16:40Of what? Of what month?
16:40Of June.
16:41Of this year?
16:42Yes.
16:43Let's do this very quickly. I have a feeling there's not going to be much of an issue
16:47from reading these papers. How old a dog was it? Do you have any idea?
16:51She said it was six months, but it looked about a year.
16:53Okay. So it was a relatively young dog.
16:56How much did you pay her for the dog?
16:58Five hundred and twenty-five dollars.
17:01You had had dogs before?
17:02Yeah. Many over time.
17:04Many. Okay.
17:05Now is it true that he paid you five hundred and twenty-five dollars for the dog?
17:08Yes.
17:09And is it true that shortly thereafter he contacted you and said he was having problems with the dog?
17:15That's a yes?
17:15Yes.
17:16Okay, fine. Now I'm going to ask you this question.
17:19You have the dog back?
17:20I do.
17:20And what month did you get the dog back?
17:23June.
17:24So the same month that he purchased the dog?
17:27Correct. 17 days later.
17:28Now is the question of the day. Where did you get the dog from?
17:33Don't look up here. Look at me.
17:35I rescued the litter from Rosarito.
17:38So you went to Mexico?
17:40I did not. I have a rescuer down there that rescued this whole litter from being put down.
17:45So you got the dog from Mexico?
17:50Correct.
17:50As part of a litter, you say, you did not bring the dog home yourself.
17:56Somebody else brought the dog.
17:58She crossed him into San Diego and I picked them up in San Diego.
18:01And it was from a rescue litter?
18:03Correct.
18:04There were going to be...
18:05Shh! I don't know that. I have no idea of that.
18:09So you paid nothing for the litter?
18:12Correct.
18:13And how many were in this litter?
18:15There were eight.
18:17And what did you do with the other seven?
18:20One we own and the rest of them were adopted.
18:24When you say adopted, they were adopted for money?
18:28Correct.
18:29How much?
18:30They all were adopted at 525.
18:32When did you receive the litter?
18:35In December.
18:36And how old were they in December?
18:38They were just about a month old.
18:40So let's say November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June.
18:44So this dog was about eight or nine months old.
18:48No. They were about seven months old.
18:50No.
18:51If the dog was a month old, you got it in December.
18:53Correct.
18:53That's November.
18:54November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June is when you sold the dog.
18:59Correct.
19:00So you made over $3,000 in the sale of this litter.
19:04I don't sell anything. I adopt.
19:06Sell.
19:07Okay.
19:08Sell.
19:09I'm a non-profit.
19:10You sold.
19:11Everybody's a non-profit.
19:12Madam, you don't know where these dogs came from.
19:15You can't prove where these dogs came from.
19:17All I know is you had somebody go pick them up in Mexico.
19:21You got them for nothing.
19:22They brought them here.
19:24And you sold them, according to you, for $3,000.
19:28I adopted them.
19:28And I also paid for shots, food, housing.
19:31And I also paid for deworming.
19:33And I also paid for fixing.
19:34The one he took was not fixed yet, and he was to do that.
19:38Show me that you had the other dogs neutered before you sold them.
19:42I didn't.
19:42I only brought him up.
19:43Just a second.
19:43I don't believe a word that you just said to me.
19:46If you bring a litter in, and the responsible thing to do is to have them neutered, which you said,
19:52I paid to have them neutered, why would you neuter seven and not neuter his,
19:57which is now eight months old?
19:59Why would you do that?
20:00I only neutered the boys, because at the time, the females, the vet wouldn't do them.
20:05She would only do the boys, because that's the one she could get in right away.
20:11I don't believe a word you just said to me.
20:14OK.
20:14Well.
20:14I don't believe a word you just said to me.
20:17Have you tried to get into a vet?
20:18I've had boys, and I've had girls.
20:19And I know that sometimes surgery is certainly different for a female than it is for a male.
20:24But if this dog is eight months old, it would have been neutered.
20:27And if what you're telling me is that all of the other puppies in this litter were males,
20:32I don't believe you.
20:34So I have the paperwork on the neuter for his, on the spay for his dog.
20:38I have that paperwork.
20:39So you did it.
20:40So you did it.
20:41I did it.
20:41When?
20:42I did it when he brought it back.
20:44I'm not talking about when he brought it back, madam.
20:46He was supposed to have that done.
20:47That was our conversation.
20:48Did you not hear me?
20:49What I'm telling you that I don't believe?
20:51I don't believe that you took the rest of the puppies and had them neutered without taking
20:57this one for some reason, and then selling this one when it was eight months old.
21:02You have the dog?
21:03I do.
21:03You have the dog?
21:04He gets his 525 back.
21:06Thank you very much.
21:07Ma'am, we're done.
21:07We are done-o.
21:09This court is adjourned.
21:16I paid for things out of my own pocket in order to take care of these dogs.
21:20The dog would growl, show its teeth.
21:24He's lying about the fact that the dog was aggressive.
21:27The dog reacted the exact same way to me.
21:29I have a picture of him holding the dog on his lap with a tutu on.
21:33I feel like I got back what I put into the dog.
21:36She's got a home with us.
21:39So she kipped the dog.
21:41Seems straightforward.
21:42Gives him back his money.
21:43Yeah.
21:44Animals can't protect themselves.
21:46People have to protect animals from people who, you know, exploit them.
21:50Yeah.
21:52Are you a victim of a scam?
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