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catching up with the royals with rev richard coles s01e08
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00:00Hello and welcome to another episode of Catching Up with the Royals with me, Emily Andrews.
00:05And me, Richard Coles. This is the podcast that takes you beyond the headlines and lifts the lid
00:10on what life is really like behind palace walls.
00:14Although I one time did have to buy him a drink. He didn't buy me a drink.
00:17Hey, hey, hey, hey, more on that please.
00:19This week we'll be pulling back the proverbial curtain on the inner workings of the so-called firm,
00:25arguably one of the most lucrative companies in the world,
00:28from which royal earns the most.
00:30The king.
00:31He is the first billionaire monarch.
00:34Doesn't hurt if you are exempt from inheritance tax.
00:37Two, the act of quitting the family business.
00:39What does the world owe you if all of a sudden you've handed back your crown?
00:42We'll be uncovering exactly how the House of Windsor is run and makes its money.
00:52Well, here we all are again, catching up with the royals.
00:56Now, Prince Philip famously referred to it not as a family, but a firm.
01:02Do you think that was apt?
01:05I think so. I think for two reasons, really.
01:08One, the monarch is like the CEO, the chief executive, and effectively runs everything.
01:15He or she, any person within the firm, be they working royal, member of the family or courtier,
01:22that answers to the monarch. And actually, I think it's apt that Philip coined it because he was the arch
01:26moderniser.
01:27He was a real moderniser in the royal family of the 20th century.
01:32And I think that what's interesting about the firm is that they are, in some respects,
01:40when we were in the age of influencer, aren't we?
01:42But aren't they the ultimate influencer?
01:43Aren't they the ultimate brand?
01:45So it's really important to make a distinction between royals, which we talk about, obviously, catching up with the royals.
01:51That's all of them.
01:52That's all of them. They're all welcome here.
01:53Princess Michael of Kent.
01:55Yes, Zara Tindall. She is a royal. But the working royals are funded by the Sovereign Grant.
02:01Now, the monarch is funded in three ways. He or she has their own private inherited income.
02:06Not, they don't have to pay income tax. So because of that, I think Charles is the first billionaire British
02:11monarch ever,
02:12because he didn't have to pay inheritance tax on his mother's inheritance.
02:17So they're funded by personal wealth, the Duchy of Lancaster, and the Sovereign Grant.
02:21The heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales, is funded by the Duchy of Cornwall.
02:24Hang on. Duchy of Cornwall, Duchy of Lancaster. What are those?
02:27Yes, those are two separate duchies. So the monarch is also the Duke of Lancaster.
02:33Queen Elizabeth was the Duke of Lancaster. And they're separate duchies.
02:37They are huge land-owning entities.
02:41Now, the Sovereign Grant is a percentage of the Crown Estate.
02:45So the Sovereign Grant is paid to the monarch that funds all the work of the royal family.
02:49So the Crown Estate are those holdings that belong not to the individual, the king, Charles,
02:54but to the crown, to the king and his successors.
02:57Absolutely. And a percentage of the profits goes to pay for all the working royals and their travel,
03:05the job that they do, basically, for Britain, PLC.
03:09I've got two other words for you. Corporation tax?
03:12I don't know whether the Crown Estate pays corporation tax. That's a really good question.
03:18If you start from the notion that actually anything held by the Crown is exempt from taxation,
03:23because it's HMRC, isn't it? It's the Crown that does the taxing.
03:28Exactly.
03:28So the Crown taxing itself does sort of have to be by its own volition,
03:32because that's how it works, right?
03:35Yeah. Everything else that they do, even when they're going, say, they're visiting India
03:39or they're visiting the US, then that's paid for by us via the Sovereign Grant.
03:43Now, the working royals are the king, the queen. Come on, Richard. Who else?
03:48The Prince of Princess Wales.
03:50Yes.
03:51The Princess Royal.
03:52Yes.
03:53The Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh.
03:55Well done, Sophie and Edward.
03:58There's three more.
04:01Princess Alexandra.
04:02The Duke of Kent.
04:04Yes.
04:05I can't. I've run out of royals.
04:06And the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester.
04:07Of course, yeah.
04:08And then, of course, for the Prince of Wales, the heir to the throne is funded by the Duchy of
04:13Cornwall.
04:14All those biscuits.
04:15All those biscuits, yeah.
04:16Actually, fun fact, you're absolutely right to say about Dutch originals,
04:20but that was set up by Charles as Prince of Wales, but now it's wholly owned by Waitrose.
04:27Oh, really?
04:28Yeah.
04:28But the brand and the association endures?
04:31The brand and the association endures.
04:32It was set up in partnership, I think, between Charles and Waitrose,
04:37and then any profits from the range were given to the Prince's Trust.
04:43Oh, I see.
04:43So it's actually, it's profits going to charity.
04:46Yeah, profits still go to charity, even though it's now owned by Waitrose.
04:48We're talking about kind of large sums of money here, but I just want to say on the sovereign grant,
04:52before people think that that's actually kind of tax that could otherwise, you know,
04:57be spent on hospitals, schools and roads, which indeed it could be,
04:59but actually the sovereign grant comes out of the income of the Crown Estates, right?
05:03So that's holdings that belong not to Charles, but to the monarchy,
05:09and the sovereign grant is a percentage of the profits from that.
05:13That's absolutely right.
05:14Right.
05:15And that was an arrangement that goes back historically.
05:17I know they tinker with it from time to time.
05:19Yeah.
05:20So George Osborne, when he was Chancellor back in, I think, like 2011, 2012,
05:24it used to be the civil list.
05:26So effectively, the UK government would dollop a whole load of cash
05:29to the Keeper of the Privy Purse, who is like the chief accountant at Monarchy HQ.
05:34Funnily, the principals, the royal family, call Buckingham Palace Monarchy HQ.
05:38They do call it Monarchy HQ.
05:40So the UK government used to give a whole load of cash to the Keeper of the Privy Purse,
05:46which would fund all their work.
05:49And then under the Cameron Coalition government between the Tories and the Lib Dems,
05:55George Osborne was Chancellor, and he actually did the royals a real favour,
05:59because he said that a percentage of the crown estate, which, as you've absolutely said,
06:05is held, it's kind of like it's crown lands, but all the money goes to the UK taxpayer,
06:11and now a percentage goes to the royals to fund their work.
06:15So you could say, in a sense, that there's sort of self-funding, if you were looking to...
06:19Oh, no.
06:20No, I don't think you can say that.
06:22Quite the opposite.
06:23Well, I'm going to say, if you were looking as a way...
06:25And what I'm saying is it's a highly political debate, and indeed a politicised debate.
06:29And some people would argue that you do get value for money from the royal family,
06:33some would say, or the monarchy, and some would say you don't.
06:36And that's a very polarised view, and I'm just trying to figure out
06:39what the arguments are on either side of that.
06:41I think how they're funded and whether they provide good value for money,
06:45in my opinion, are two slightly different debates.
06:48And the other complications, of course, is how much of this is because it's not unreasonable
06:52to pay people to do a job.
06:54In other words, how much of this is in return for services rendered,
06:57which is if you're head of a state, it involves things like palaces and security
07:00and that kind of thing.
07:01Or how much of this is people just getting an easy ride from the Treasury and HMRC,
07:06not paying inheritance tax, for example, if you're the sovereign.
07:08Well, I think are they worth it?
07:11Are they value for money?
07:13Depends on who you ask.
07:15And I think it often depends on your view of politics.
07:19I think it probably depends on your age.
07:22We tend to be more supportive of monarchy, I think, as we get older.
07:25Certainly younger people, all the popularity polls are that, you know,
07:29people don't support the monarchy as much when they don't.
07:32God save the Queen!
07:33I was the king now, innit?
07:35Say aye.
07:36It's really bloody complicated.
07:37It's really complicated.
07:37And that's one of the reasons why it works for them is they don't make it,
07:41it's not transparent.
07:42It's not transparent.
07:43And they want it to be complicated.
07:44And they want so that they, we don't delve too much
07:48into how much money they really do have.
07:50I've got a quiz for you before we go.
07:53Richard, how many official roles working for the family
07:57have been related to the lavatory?
08:00Oh my word.
08:02I know, bring the tone down, aren't I?
08:03I'm going to have to think about that.
08:05Back with you soon.
08:10Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
08:12For the break, I asked you how many official roles working for the royal family
08:17have involved lavatories?
08:19Wait for it.
08:21And the answer is two.
08:23Number two.
08:24Oh, Richard!
08:26You have to bring the tone down, but I love it.
08:28I love it.
08:29Of course it had to be a number two.
08:31Yes, and that is relevant.
08:32Okay, so the two roles are, if you hadn't worked out already,
08:36groom of the stool and keeper of the royal bedchamber stools.
08:41Now, Richard, do you know what the groom of the stool had to do?
08:45Well, I was hoping it was someone who had to do with seating arrangements,
08:48but I guess we're on a different stool here, aren't we?
08:50I think it's a different stool.
08:51I'm going to leave it for you to explain.
08:53Okay, so the groom of the stool would literally be there
08:57to wipe the monarch's derriere.
08:59They would be there to wipe the monarch's bottom, should he or she chose.
09:03And I think also, in all seriousness, it was an important job
09:06because you also, it was to do with the health of the monarch,
09:09so you had to inspect the stool and make sure that it all looked appropriate
09:12and that they didn't have an upset tummy and they weren't ill.
09:14But whoever held that job was actually a very, very important courtier
09:20because he or she would be incredibly close to the monarch
09:25and was party to all their private thoughts in a very intimate environment.
09:28So in the days of, say, a Tudor monarchy, for example,
09:31where the monarch was the sun, the moon and everything,
09:34if you had the ear of Henry VIII as well as the bottom of Henry VIII,
09:39you had a very, very direct root of power.
09:42Yeah, definitely.
09:43And also I think there's something, isn't there, to be said.
09:45I don't want to speak for you, Richard,
09:47but when you're literally naked or partially clothed,
09:50you are quite vulnerable, aren't you?
09:52And I think there has to be a sense of real intimacy between someone who is helping you
09:59in that, you know, not that I've ever had this.
10:01You know, it's quite a vulnerable thing.
10:03Yeah.
10:03But also the fact that the health of the monarch was so closely related to the health of the nation.
10:09Yeah.
10:09So if the monarch's poo is looking a bit off, that might affect the value of the pound.
10:14Yeah, totally.
10:15Yeah.
10:15Interesting.
10:15Because the monarch needed to live because he or she, and it's the same now,
10:21you see it with people around the court, you know, of the monarch and the air in waiting,
10:27everyone's kind of thinking, how long have they got?
10:29Because if they go, my position goes too.
10:32Which is why the second role, keeper of the royal bedchamber stools was also important
10:37because that role involved making, putting out all the chamber pots for high ranking and
10:43official guests.
10:44And if you think, again, going back to kind of medieval Tudor times, when obviously there
10:48was letter writing, huge amount of letter writing, but the real way that diplomacy, well,
10:54like still like now, was effected was through face to face.
10:58It's access.
10:59Access.
10:59Yeah.
11:00Mind you, a bittersweet feeling to be told.
11:03The good news is you've been appointed to a very senior position at court.
11:06The bad news is bring your mittens.
11:09Yeah, I know.
11:11But there are other ones.
11:12It's so interesting that there's another job, the page of the back stairs.
11:18Billy Backstairs Billy.
11:19Yes, Backstairs Billy.
11:20Now, the page of the back stairs, it sounds like you would rather be page of the main stairs,
11:25but the back stairs was where a lot of the unofficial business was transacted.
11:29So the back stairs where people could get in and out, up and down, in and out of the sovereign
11:34or the prince's chamber without being seen, without being on public display.
11:39So that's quite significant.
11:41I remember visiting a stately home and there was a suite that was reserved for the heir to
11:45the title.
11:46And that had a separate entrance, which went to a side door.
11:49So the heir to the title could conduct his, invariably in that case, his business without it being
11:56confused with the official business of the house.
11:59Do you see what I mean?
11:59Yeah.
12:00It's interesting, isn't it?
12:01It's very clever.
12:01Yeah.
12:01And then, of course, there's always the kind of, there's roles like the royal shoe wearer.
12:06I mean, and that's sort of that.
12:07I don't know whether that happens with King Charles, but that certainly happened with the
12:11late queen, Queen Elizabeth.
12:13Angela Kelly, otherwise known as AK47, because she was, and she still is pretty formidable,
12:19although she's retired now.
12:20She was the late queen's dresser for many, many years.
12:23A very impressive liver puddle in.
12:25And she had the same size shoe as the queen, the same size foot, sorry, as the queen.
12:30And she would wear in her shoes.
12:33Well, that makes sense because if you're the queen and you're on your feet all day, you
12:36could be literally put out of business if you've got a blister or if you, you know, you need
12:42that need, that's an indispensable service.
12:45Absolutely.
12:46If you're the queen and you're, or the king, and your time is minuteed to the second to
12:51the minute, and they do, their schedules are 7.43, 8.22, you know, if your shoes are rubbing
12:57and you're in pain, that's no good for anyone.
12:59I'm fascinated by Angela Kelly to have had that degree of access and also that degree of
13:04intimacy.
13:05And clearly, is affection the right word?
13:08I'm not sure.
13:08Yes, I think so.
13:10It's such an interesting role, isn't it?
13:12And also, how interesting that she's described as a weapon by her nickname at court.
13:17Yes, AK-47.
13:18Well, the story goes that while she was still working for the late queen, she was allowed
13:24to publish two books.
13:28The first of which was a book about royal dresses.
13:32And then I think the then Prince of Wales, Prince Charles, was very worried about what she
13:36might publish after the queen died.
13:40Because she literally had access to all the secrets.
13:43She used to watch television with the late queen.
13:45She was her confidant.
13:46She would know who the queen voted for on Strictly.
13:48Yeah, she would know.
13:49I bet she'd say you.
13:51I'm certain she wouldn't.
13:53But she would know.
13:54She would know who, if the queen put a bet, which horse she'd been betting on.
13:57She would know who, what the queen thought about Meghan.
14:02So.
14:03Also intimacy, knickers and bras.
14:05Exactly.
14:05Yes.
14:06All of that kind of thing.
14:07When the queen was unwell, Angela would go and personally care for her.
14:11She did her hair.
14:13She helped her with her makeup.
14:14And so when a monarch dies, everybody around the monarch, groom in the stall or not, is
14:20out on there.
14:21Exactly.
14:22It's out on there.
14:23So Charles made sure he gave her a nice house.
14:26I mean, there's a story that Backstairs Billy, who was so loyal to the queen mother and keeper
14:31of all the secrets, knew where all the bodies were buried.
14:33Once the queen mother died, he was booted out to a flat in Kennington, I think.
14:36I'm sure that's true.
14:39Allegedly.
14:40Allegedly.
14:40Allegedly.
14:41Well, he's dead now, isn't he?
14:42But I mean, he, I mean, he knew a lot.
14:45That can make you very powerful.
14:47Yes.
14:48Knowledge is power.
14:49Yeah.
14:49So I think it's interesting that now, of course, we don't have, you know, famously when Queen
14:55Camilla became queen and was crowned a couple of years ago, she let it be known that she
14:59wouldn't have ladies in waiting.
15:01She now has companions and Kay Middy, our friend, Kay Middy, the Princess of Wales, everybody.
15:07Her Royal Highness.
15:08Don't clutch your pearls too much.
15:09Her Royal Highness Catherine, the Princess of Wales.
15:11She doesn't have ladies in waiting either.
15:13Yeah, interesting.
15:14The other thing, of course, is if you've got all these people like wearing in your shoes
15:18or looking at your stools or whatever, that's payroll, isn't it?
15:22Payroll.
15:22How rich do you need to be?
15:24I mean, we've talked about, so the sovereign grant covers some of this, but what about the
15:27personal wealth of the senior or the sovereign?
15:30Let me look at my list.
15:31Let me look at my list.
15:32I'm glad you asked me that.
15:33So the Royal Rich List, who do you think tops it?
15:36The King.
15:37Of course.
15:38He is the first billionaire monarch.
15:40Now, that's partly because of that awful word, inflation.
15:44It's also partly through very savvy investments throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.
15:49And also, I think it's partly thanks to Prince Philip, because Philip and Charles started treating
15:55the royal estates, their personal income, their personal lands as businesses, the firm.
16:04And so then they started charging market rent.
16:06It wasn't just a feudal, oh, I'll just let you live in this house if you mow my field for
16:10me.
16:11They professionalised it.
16:12They professionalised it.
16:13They absolutely, they professionalised the business of being a monarch.
16:17And so Charles is estimated at 1.8 billion.
16:20Can I just add to this?
16:21It doesn't hurt if you are exempt from inheritance tax.
16:25I was just about to give you that.
16:26Richard, we need to talk about inheritance tax.
16:28I think we do need to talk about inheritance tax.
16:30Very quickly, I'm going to run through the rest.
16:31But then we need to explain to everybody about the inheritance tax issue.
16:35So Prince William, as the heir to the throne, Duchy of Cornwall, he's estimated at 90 million.
16:39Princess Anne, I didn't know this.
16:41Her personal fortune is approximately 50 million.
16:44That's largely through inherited estates and wealth and investments.
16:48And then Prince Harry and Meghan, again, we don't know how much really they're worth
16:51because we don't know what any of them are worth.
16:53But Harry and Meghan combined private net worth is commonly estimated around 47 million pounds.
17:00But the monarch doesn't have to pay inheritance tax.
17:04This is a very significant perk, isn't it?
17:07Because it's 40% or something, isn't it, inheritance tax on most people.
17:10I know I inherited a little money from my mother and a chunk of that went to the tax man.
17:15And if that hadn't gone to the tax man, I would be wearing a tiara right now.
17:22Well, I wouldn't, but you know what I mean.
17:23I do.
17:24I mean, is it fair?
17:24I would say, I suppose the problem is, is that if the monarch was subject to inheritance tax,
17:30then would they go bankrupt?
17:31Well, I know, because there's a sort of, they use a language, which sounds like an exemption,
17:36which is sovereign to sovereign, right?
17:37So it's only the succeeding sovereign who enjoys that benefit.
17:43The only thing that's striking about this is that you do get this right,
17:46they do pay a certain amount of tax, but they seem to decide themselves.
17:50I would very much like to speak to HMRC and say,
17:52I've decided to pay you this amount of tax this year.
17:55Okay, with you, thank you very much, bye.
17:57It's not going to work, is it?
17:59Well, it's interesting because when Charles was Prince of Wales,
18:02he was quite open in the Duchy of Cornwall and used to say how much income tax he paid.
18:08He didn't tell us how they came about, the calculations,
18:12but he publicly said how much they paid.
18:14William, as Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales,
18:18is not telling us how much income tax he's paid.
18:19Isn't that interesting?
18:20Because that would be, that's a counterintuitive fact,
18:22because you imagine more transparency rather than less transparency would be the direction.
18:26I wonder if it's part of this, certainly with William,
18:31I wonder if it's part of this not wanting to appear rich.
18:35I can't believe that any royal would be diddling HMRC because that would just be,
18:40I mean, the only person who's above prosecution is the monarch.
18:43It does give you a formidable tax advantage.
18:45It does give you a formidable tax advantage if you're being prosecuted in the name of your dad.
18:52But I can't believe that all those civil servants and the keeper of the privy purse
18:57would allow them to get the tax bill wrong.
19:00But I do wonder, I do feel that William wants to be kind of like a man of the people
19:06and wants to be seen as another ordinary type of guy.
19:10Does publishing the millions he has to pay in tax?
19:14Because how much is he worth, again, do we think?
19:16Well, we don't know.
19:16We've worked about £20 million to £25 million a year in income from the Duchy of Cornwall.
19:19Yeah.
19:20I mean, that's a huge amount of money.
19:22£20 million a year, Richard.
19:25I mean, imagine how many tiaras both of us could buy with that.
19:27There's a caveat to this, isn't it, which is making it...
19:30I remember a neighbour of mine got really exercised when she found out
19:33that the cost of the coronation was about £70 million.
19:36And she said, why can't the king pay for that?
19:38And it seems to me quite obviously why.
19:40That's a head of state thing.
19:42Yeah.
19:42The king isn't crowning himself for his own amusement.
19:45He's doing it because as head of state, that's what you do.
19:48And he seems to be right that that should be paid by the state.
19:51But that's a useful confusion sometimes, isn't it?
19:53Because how would you always know how to distinguish between what is a function of state
19:57and what is a private benefit?
20:00It's hard to call that.
20:01But I mean, going back to what we were sort of saying before, are the royals worth it?
20:06You know, that £20 million a year to William, I mean, it's just...
20:09He's the same age as me.
20:10I mean, I just kind of...
20:10My mind boggles.
20:11And don't forget, that's from the £20 million doesn't include the money he will get
20:17as part of the suffering grants to be a working royal.
20:19But then another thing, and this is a hard thing, but I mean, I think all of us would
20:22want to have a distinguish between our private resources and the resources that came to us
20:28by virtue of what we do.
20:29And I don't...
20:30In principle, I don't think it sounds unreasonable that public stuff should be funded out of
20:38public money and private resources should not be lent on for that.
20:44I always liken the royals to...
20:45There's that famous advert by Heineken.
20:48And I don't think they do it anymore, but, you know, Heineken...
20:50Is it Heineken that it reaches parts...
20:52Other beers cannot reach.
20:53Other beers cannot.
20:54And I always think the royal family is a bit like the royal Heineken, the royal beer, because
20:58they can do...
20:59They can achieve things.
21:01They can convene people and bring people together in a way that I don't think anyone
21:05else in the world can.
21:06Look at the Trump state visit last year.
21:08There was the Princess of Wales dressed in Trump's favourite colour, gold.
21:13The amount of gold on that table at the Windsor Castle banquet was amazing.
21:17He was having the time of his life in the unprecedented second state visit.
21:23I mean, he absolutely loved it.
21:24And the result of that, Richard, meant that we had less bad tariffs than the rest of Europe.
21:30And it meant that factories here didn't close.
21:34Soft power.
21:35Soft power.
21:35And it's very hard to do a profit and loss on that, isn't it?
21:38Because they're very hard to track those figures.
21:39But I always thought other people would say, how much is the monarchy worth in terms of bringing
21:43in a tourist pound or dollar or yen by a significant amount?
21:47It's very hard to get any precise figures about that.
21:49But I still think even if we didn't have a monarchy, the coffers of the Royal Collection
21:53Trust, which administer the opening of Holyrood House, Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle,
21:57still think the tourists would come.
21:59King Charles or no King Charles?
22:00I've got a hypothetical.
22:02Go on.
22:02In the event that it was thought that perhaps we could manage perfectly well without a monarchy
22:07and it was abolished and we would form a republic, which is perfectly doable, whether it's wise
22:11or not is another question.
22:13Imagine the wrangling over who gets what.
22:16If the Windsors were to retire to private life, what would they take with them?
22:24Would the title in their art collection, their jewels, their land holdings, would that just
22:30go to the state or would they think, hang on, that was ours or that we, I don't know, it's
22:36an interesting one, isn't it?
22:36Well, some stuff is theirs personally.
22:38So...
22:39How do you untangle all that?
22:40Balmoral, Sandringham, Highgrove are all personal homes.
22:45Windsor Castle, Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace are owned by the state.
22:49The Crown Jewels, locked up in the tower.
22:52They're owned by the crown.
22:53They're owned by the crown.
22:54I would say, isn't that the state?
22:57I've got another thing to tell you.
22:59Tell me.
22:59Right, so I've looked this up actually and the British monarchy in cost is about 100
23:04million a year.
23:06The other monarchies, European monarchies, about half.
23:09I know.
23:10Some much less than that.
23:11But I think Denmark and the Netherlands are the next in terms of expense and it's half
23:18that cost.
23:18Yeah.
23:19And they, I mean, they seem to live pretty high on the hog, but obviously our lot are
23:22super expensive and that's partly to do with the splendor and the extent of their living.
23:28Well, there's not enough transparency for us to know.
23:31Well, it's time to go for a break.
23:33But after the break, we'll be asking the question, how do you actually quit the firm if you should
23:38choose to do so?
23:39Well, we'll come back to that.
23:40But we have a question for you to mull over also and it's this.
23:43Is it true or false that the monarch requires no passport or driving license?
23:51See you in a moment.
23:56Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
23:59And a quick reminder that if you like what you hear and would like more content from us,
24:02then head to our social media channels.
24:05Search for Catching Up With The Royals.
24:07Now, before the break, the question was, true or false, the monarch requires a driving license
24:12or passport.
24:13The answer is, no, the monarch doesn't.
24:16Stopped by the cops, the monarch can say, no, no, no, be off with you.
24:21Stopped at immigration, no, no, no, be off with you.
24:23They're the fount of the monarch, it's the fount of all law.
24:26Doesn't need that stuff.
24:27The monarch is the law.
24:29Discuss.
24:30Anyway, look, we were talking about quitting the firm, Emily.
24:34If it is a firm, of course you have the right to hand in your notice.
24:38And it has happened, hasn't it?
24:39But it's never been a particularly smooth business.
24:43No.
24:44So, obviously, the most infamous was the monarch quitting the top job, Edward VIII, in 1936.
24:54It does seem a bit bonkers now, doesn't it, to think about it.
24:58But I think you have to put yourself back 100 years.
25:00And, you know, the monarch, well, still is.
25:03The monarch is the head of the church of England.
25:05No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
25:06Oh, sorry, yes, this is your...
25:07Point of order.
25:08Yeah, point of order.
25:08This is your domain.
25:10Talk to me about...
25:11Supreme Governor.
25:12Supreme Governor.
25:13Not the head of the church.
25:13Sorry.
25:14Which is Jesus Christ.
25:15Okay, sorry.
25:16Supreme Governor.
25:16Supreme Governor.
25:17Small but important point.
25:18So, Jesus Christ is the head.
25:20Yes.
25:21And the British monarch is...
25:24The Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
25:25Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
25:27Yeah.
25:27Of course, after the breakaway from Rome by Henry VIII in the 16th century.
25:32It's so complicated.
25:33So complicated.
25:34podcast just to scratch the surface and also of course but at that point he was still he might
25:38have broken away from the church but he was not church of england anyway that was elizabeth the
25:42first but we're not doing history we're doing royals very good thanks you're welcome elizabeth
25:46settlement the elizabeth and of course and then was edward the sixth but really good yeah i know
25:51and moriah and mary and your neck of the woods the louisian martyrs i think oh the lewis yeah
25:59the martyrs of lewis yeah anyway bonfire i love a lewis bonfire those of you who know who know
26:05you know uh but back to the supreme governor of the church of england which was the monarch of edward
26:11the eighth and therefore then he couldn't marry a divorcee so he had to quit i mean to think the
26:17church of england's doctrine at that time has changed now made it impossible for someone to
26:21a divorcee to remarry if the person they originally married to was still living not permitted and so
26:27the archbishop of canterbury said no way it was hard to imagine just what a crisis this was actually
26:32it was an unthinkable thing yeah that all of a sudden everyone had to think about it was a big
26:36trauma for all for all concerned i think the deal was either you uh give up mrs simpson or you
26:43abdicate
26:44and marry mrs simpson or you marry mrs simpson morganatically which means uh that she would not become
26:51queen she would not become royal through the marriage and he said no and presumably
26:56he could have stayed being king and had her as a mistress like every other monarch before him
27:02yeah and of course the cat was sort of out of the bag now and he upped the ante but
27:06it's like one of
27:06those things you know situations nobody don't speak don't tell yeah uh people can kind of make their
27:12own arrangements but as soon as you sort of make that explicit then you have to tidy it all up
27:16and
27:16you know you have to make a decision it became official and i think i mean there have been many
27:23books written of course famously wallace and um edward the eighth are buried side by side
27:30in the grounds of frogmoor house just by frogmoor cottage where another american married a british prince
27:41and went to live after their married life i always thought it was quite funny that harry and megan
27:45went to live in frogmoor cottage which is very very close to the graves almost as if there were an
27:51element of deliberation whoever chose that well do you know what though i broke the story that they
27:56were going to move to frogmoor cottage and of course at the time everybody thought that they were going to
28:01move into one of the vacated apartments in kensington palace everyone thought they were going to live
28:07next door to kate and william and there was i think apartment kate would have apartment 1a and i think
28:11apartment 1 was being renovated and that i mean that that was genuinely what was going to happen
28:15but quite i mean we as the journos were always a bit late to the party but what happened was
28:21carrie
28:21and megan spent very little time at kp um they were living in nottingham cottage and they they didn't
28:28want to be they disliked it so much that they rented um a place near soho farmhouse in the
28:33walls and they spent very little time at kensington palace and then when they said they didn't want to
28:38move into apartment one somewhere had to be found for them this whole episode we got to on why royals
28:43don't like living in official accommodation like the king and the queen don't want to live in
28:47buckingham palace no nobody wants to live in bp when i think soon this year maybe we're going to get
28:56an
28:56updated um order of the money that's been spent from the sovereign grant that's been uplifted for the
29:02last for the 10 years of of resurfacing it's going to be interesting to see how much it's cost and
29:09we should go around it richard i've never been there have you not no oh by the way i hear
29:15that they are
29:16personally quite tight that they might have all these mega millions but they don't like spending
29:24their own money well there's great stories about uh queen mary who used to go to visit people and if
29:30she came to visit people used to have to hide all their bibelos away because if she liked something
29:34she just expected it to be given to her it's a royal favor and she used to go to her
29:38shops when they
29:39were closed to the public and go that's nice that's nice and somebody would go around after and wrap it
29:43up in brown paper and deliver it to buckingham palace no i think that sense of entitlement still does
29:50happen i heard this great story about um megan that on the eve of the queen's funeral which was a
29:57monday
29:58she got very worried about gloves now this is my opinion this is what i was told she got very
30:04worried about gloves my opinion is because the gloves that she actually wore on the day the
30:07queen's funeral were elbow length in fact comparisons were made to wallace simpson who was a very stylish
30:13lady but also liked an elbow length glove i was told that on the eve of the funeral she got
30:19one of her
30:20people to ring uh one of the couple of the big french fashion houses that have stores on regent
30:27street and wanted them opened so that one of her minions could go and get some gloves i think in
30:34the
30:34end the keys couldn't be found or burger alarm codes or people couldn't be you know stretched and
30:39so in the end she didn't get whatever gloves i think she wanted shorter gloves i think she suddenly
30:44got this is my personal opinion i think she suddenly got really worried but that sense of oh my
30:49goodness i need gloves i need gloves they're the wrong gloves get me new gloves somebody go go that
30:53it's quite that optics is very problematic isn't it the thing is you get used to the world being nice
31:00to you in about a day the interesting thing is getting used to the world no longer caring about you
31:05so when you know of course megan may sort of fret about her gloves i don't know but once you've
31:10stopped
31:11being the reason people are bothered about gloves i.e a member of the royal family you need to really
31:17adjust very quickly to trim very quickly to a world in which your uh caprices might not carry
31:24the weight that they did beforehand right and i guess so there's one thing about quitting isn't it
31:28all of a sudden the world what does the world owe you if all of a sudden you've handed back
31:31your crown
31:31and i think that was the mistake that harry and megan made because they are trying to make their own
31:37money now all well and good well done then but because they have literally bitten publicly bitten the hand
31:45that fed them in terms of being so critical of the royals that was the reason why everyone was
31:51interested in them so whilst at the time them doing oprah and doing the netflix sort of you're speaking
31:58their truth and saying how victimized they were and how unfair it all was was probably quite cathartic
32:03and obviously we all lapped it up didn't we in the long run it wasn't very sensible as a strategic
32:09move because they want people to buy what they are selling be it harry's life coaching or megan's jam
32:17and if they've been but you know if she wants us to buy what she's selling we have to believe
32:26in her
32:27we want to buy into her and she's literally told us that she hated the one thing that we were
32:32interested in for being royal but do you think the plan is that you shift from being interesting because
32:36you remember the british royal family to being interesting because you're kind of like the
32:39kardashians that there's a sort of another version of that so secular version of that if you like
32:44where people were interested in them for their own sake rather than for them doing anything well
32:49jam's nice and i don't want to be horrible to either megan or harry and i think you know deprogramming
32:55from the weird life is obviously going to be complicated and difficult we wish them
32:59the best but i'm not sure how well yeah i think i do really i think i do because i'd
33:05you know
33:06i think we should no i think we should i think with i think with the i always think i
33:10always
33:10call the emily andrews venn diagram so you've got three circles okay you've got one are you with me
33:15are you with me one circle is celebrity yeah the next circle is you know uh history yeah the bottom
33:24circle is the news and in that middle the middle of those three circles is the royal family yeah so
33:29in a case sort of to your point if you take away the celebrity and you take away the news
33:35and you
33:36take away the history what are the royal family there isn't really much there it's the combination
33:40of all those three things that make them so interesting that makes them you know want us
33:45us want to talk about them makes them being able to earn a living and makes them earn a living
33:49the kind
33:49living they want to earn but then when they are the working royals sometimes they feel quite trapped
33:55so and sometimes they want to quit and also the other thing i'd say uh in a favor of harry
34:01is i
34:01understand why as a father you would be concerned for the safety of your children and if you walk away
34:06from the royal family and all of a sudden you no longer get that protection nonetheless interest may
34:10endure and i can quite say why you would have anxieties that your children might be targeted
34:14and that you would feel that perhaps a degree of security would be available to you for that and
34:20it's those little things you walk away from and perhaps don't fully anticipate what that's going
34:25to look like and what that's going to cost you and how different your life is going to be
34:29because if you've got security and if you've got stuff that comes with that you know kind of private
34:35jets whatever that's not a cheap life is it it's a very expensive i don't know how much you need
34:41to
34:41to live that sort of a life but it's pretty hard to do that i think the security take more
34:46than jam
34:46no for sure and i think that's or spread that's why or spread spread spread or other or the the
34:54the sparkling and i'm no emily stop the accents now or the sparkling brute she keeps calling it
35:00brute i'm like it's bubbles what you're doing love anyway their security bill is about two million
35:05a year so you can completely understand why harry has mounted this huge campaign is a campaign is a
35:13military man campaign to get his metropolitan police security reinstated but if as is indicated
35:22in current currently he does get that reinstated that's going to be a huge cost to the british taxpayer
35:28that by the way the security doesn't come out of the sovereign grant that's out of it comes out of
35:33the metropolitan police budget because the metropolitan police which for those metropolitan
35:38police is london's police force and they have a special security operation which protect vips not
35:46just the royals but you know the part prime minister and and senior hypothetical for you go for it in
35:52the
35:52event of some international outrage not an unimaginable situation the head of state might be compromised by
36:00the kidnap of his grandchildren yeah it's bad isn't it that could be really really bad god that gives me
36:08that that that makes me actually that's giving me a physical reaction but before we go one question
36:14for you which of the following unusual facilities can be found inside buckingham palace an atm a post office
36:25or a police station or a police station welcome back to catching up with the royals before the break i
36:36asked
36:36which of the following unusual facilities can be found inside buckingham palace an atm a post office
36:42or a police station what do you reckon richard police station well you're right but all of them
36:50and i've seen all of them inside buckingham palace and who do you think provides the atm inside bp
36:57i want to say coots you are absolutely correct yes it's a coots atm it's a it's a freestanding i
37:05actually used it just so that i could you know say that i had used the cash machine in buckingham
37:10palace it's part of the net west group actually now is it yeah i bet your accounts with coots isn't
37:15it
37:15it's not no but it will be another member of the net west group that west there you are i'm
37:20very
37:21excited because i've got the red box here it's your turn this is viewers questions yes the most
37:27important bit of the show right let's have a little look okay
37:32i've made a mess of it anyone there we go careful of your mic oh oh relevant this is from
37:38maisie okay
37:39and she asks has harry's public image taken a turn for the worse since he no longer has access
37:44to the palace aids oh good question maisie thank you i mean if you look at the opinion polls
37:51his popularity has really nosedived and as has megan's i mean he used to be one of the most popular
37:58members of the royal family and i remember writing that prince harry was the one member of the royal
38:03family you'd love to go down the pub with the only one you can imagine yeah have a pint although
38:08one time did have to buy him a drink he didn't buy me a drink hey hey hey hey more
38:13on that please
38:13oh we were in chile and on a royal tour and on royal tours it's kind of uh it's sort
38:24of like
38:25convention that if you go and follow them around and report on what they're doing um then there's a
38:32private drinks reception and we got to the bar and harry is a delight he's so fun he's exactly well
38:43he was
38:43anyway i think he lost a bit of his joie de vivre um before he left the uk i really
38:48hope he's got it
38:48back now but he was so funny it's like tigger bounding around and he was like hey em he comes
38:53into the bar i said oh hi harry i said oh and he's like oh you've got a drink i
38:58said you've not got a
38:59drink he said i said oh i'll get you a drink i'll buy you a drink oh thanks so much
39:03i'll have half a
39:05half a pint or whatever i can't remember what it was uh whatever the local lager is
39:09did you think that it was an unusual thing that someone offered to buy them a pint i don't know
39:15i think that they probably don't think that much about who is paying for things i've certainly been
39:24on royal tours where william and kate were in bhutan and william and kate wanted to buy some jewelry i
39:30think at the foot of the tiger's mess not monastery and they didn't have any cash and equally charles when
39:36he like he loves to go to a local market on tour he doesn't have any cash now you can
39:40kind of
39:40understand that because they're in a almost like a bubble when they're on tour so who has time to
39:46like go and change your tenner you don't go to a cash point even though there is one in buckingham
39:50even though there is a cash point in buckingham palace but that's probably giving out pounds it's not
39:54giving out euros or i can't remember the currency in bhutan now so i can that's kind of understandable but
40:00i think maybe the sense that i always got even with harry and william who are very down to
40:05was that they were always kind of used to people paying for them yeah i suppose if things come your
40:13way you don't really think about it that much and also i suppose you have to remember that and this
40:17is
40:17part of the reason i think for harry and megan leaving the royal family that they were effectively
40:26being paid for by dad so you know we've been talking this episode about funding then we talked
40:33about the monarch's funding we talked about the prince of wales's funding as the heir to the throne
40:37when harry and william were growing up it was their dad who was paying for everything for them fine
40:42when they were eaten fine when they were in their military and at sandhurst but then when they were
40:50men in their late 20s and early 30s they couldn't earn their own money because they were working royals
40:56and they had to rely on handouts for dad and particularly when they both started their own families
41:02william with kate and harry with megan then you know when you start your own family you want your
41:08independence you might have children you've got to have a bigger you know all that kind of thing
41:12to continually have to kind of ask your dad it's quite embarrassing isn't it i don't know it's just
41:17such an unimaginably weird life to me yeah it is and also one that's i can quite understand why you
41:22would not want to shine light upon it when so many people are struggling to pay bills right well and
41:27also
41:27in a cost of living crisis i think it doesn't behove the family in a particularly good light
41:33to be seen as unimaginably wealthy yeah and for harry so i think we have to so to maize's question
41:38which was has the loss of the courtiers kind of served harry a disservice i mean i think it just
41:47depends on on who your staff are i mean infamously megan and harry can't keep hold of their staff
41:55that quickly they they do seem to go through staff quite quickly um and the duchess of difficult
42:03the duchess difficult yes and i think if the really really good members of staff and this was
42:09probably the same with celebrities right you would know it's better than me but because of course you
42:13are an a-list celeb rich um but it depends on the caliber of the people around you but crucially
42:19they have to be able to stand up to and say no to their employer whilst also doing that in
42:26a way
42:26that they still have the confidence and trust of their employer who is ultimately paying their wage
42:31it's quite a difficult balancing act isn't it it's a very difficult one and i imagine to have somebody
42:37it's essential to have someone in your corner who has the power and the trust to tell you the
42:43difficult stuff you need to hear if you don't have that you're really lacking something for me that's
42:49why harry and megan's strategy or on the face of it lack of strategy becomes so explicable because i
43:00think that they've gone from being in my andrews venn diagram in the middle being royal with all the
43:06associations that that comes with it to moving out to america to becoming just in inverted commas
43:13celebs now that's great but i think they've had a lot of yes people around them and also if as
43:22i
43:22mean megan's always denied all the bullying claims it's got to be said but if it is correct
43:28then it's quite difficult to tell her what she doesn't want to hear do you know what else has run
43:33out time ah are we talking too long again i think so well we could talk about this for hours
43:38and hours
43:38but we haven't got any time left and we have to say goodbye we do well don't forget everybody that
43:44you can send your questions we love the questions so please send more of your questions
43:48to royals at spirit-studios.com we love the questions keep coming uh that's all for now we'll
43:57be with you every thursday wherever you get your podcasts over on our youtube channel
44:01where you can stream us now on five so until we meet again it's goodbye from me and goodbye from
44:07me
44:11you
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