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Betrayal Secrets and Lies S01E01 Fertility Fraud H 264
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00:01Neil was charismatic and witty.
00:05Just a nice, normal man.
00:07More cuddles, Ralph. More cuddles.
00:11That was the ruse.
00:15There's something very strange about this baby.
00:17You can keep the baby. Great for you.
00:19But it ain't mine, darling.
00:21It seriously, seriously isn't mine.
00:25Tina was in absolute shock.
00:28I've spoken to probably 200 people who Neil traumatized.
00:36I've had to pretty much talk girls off the ledge.
00:40I didn't realize the gravity of the situation that I escaped from.
00:44Everything he told me was a lie.
00:46I'd never seen anything as extreme as this.
00:55I would like him to suffer slowly, torturously.
01:00Someone really needs to stop him.
01:24I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most.
01:29And the deceptions that change everything.
01:32Today, I'm talking with Tina Maya.
01:34A strong, independent woman whose casual fling turned her world upside down.
01:41When she tried to understand what happened to her, she ended up forming a community of women that were all
01:48deceived by the same man.
01:50Can you talk a little bit about the scope of what Neil did?
01:56He just hides behind being this normal guy.
02:01But his lies are so damaging.
02:04They're so eroding.
02:06And it's been going on for like 30-something years.
02:09Wow.
02:10There's a whole load of people that think, oh, well, you know, how did you go for that?
02:13But this is my truth.
02:15This is my story.
02:24I was born in Tehran before the revolution in 1975.
02:28And things got a little real over there when I was quite young.
02:32So we moved back to the UK because my father was born there.
02:41I lived in a very nice place.
02:42I had great friends.
02:44Good education.
02:46Tina's full of life.
02:48Carefree.
02:51After I graduated university, I was starting my career in the technology world.
02:57And I just sort of had to figure out what this internet was.
03:02Tina ends up in New York City with a high-paying job.
03:05And she's there for about 10 years.
03:06She gets married, has a baby, gets divorced.
03:09And then in 2015, she gets a great job offer in London and she decides to move home.
03:17I was just sort of starting again.
03:20Just me and my son, Leo.
03:21He was six.
03:24She was working in e-commerce.
03:27And she was very business-minded.
03:32So it was very early 2016.
03:36I was at one of these conferences in London.
03:39I was speaking with a lot of people.
03:42And that's where I stumbled across Neil Lorman.
03:51He had a marketing firm.
03:54He was cute, quite attractive.
03:56But I really didn't think too much about that conversation.
04:01He just seemed like a nice, normal man.
04:05Neil Lorman is from Essex.
04:07It's a tough working class area outside of London.
04:11He's a successful businessman and he even has an interesting hobby.
04:15He loves cooking and appears in YouTube videos.
04:18If you'd help this, I'd actually come around for dinner and let you cook for me.
04:22Would you spoon me afterwards?
04:24Why not?
04:27Tina had no desire for a relationship.
04:30But after the conference, Neil texted her out of the blue.
04:34He said that he was going to be in Bromley, a town close to where I live.
04:40And did I want to meet up?
04:43I was in a good mood and Leo was at a sleepover.
04:47And Neil seems like he might be good fun for a drink.
04:51Um, okay.
04:56He was charismatic and witty.
05:00He was a fun guy.
05:04I told him a little bit about my divorce.
05:09And he said that he was divorced also.
05:13And they lived together in the States too.
05:15And he said that his ex-wife had got quite bitter about the fact that he couldn't give her children.
05:25He said I had testicular cancer and I'm completely infertile.
05:31And he said his ex-wife had an affair with his friend and left him for the friend and gone
05:38on to have children with him.
05:40I felt like he was being, you know, quite vulnerable and genuine.
05:44It actually drew me to him.
05:48Tina starts seeing Neil more often.
05:51She still has no desire for a relationship, but she's having fun with him.
05:54And she's enjoying the sex.
05:58That was part of what it was.
06:01And part of what was fun.
06:03She didn't need to live like a nun.
06:05The two consenting adults have fun.
06:09Even though he told me he was infertile, I was still worried because having another child was not in my
06:16plan.
06:18He's like, no, like I have zero sperm count.
06:23But he had sort of dropped into a conversation about having a lot of allergies and one of those allergies
06:30was latex.
06:32And so he couldn't use protection.
06:37Over the next few months, Tina sees Neil sporadically.
06:41We would see each other once a week or so.
06:44He told me a bit about his family.
06:47He didn't come from money, but I didn't care.
06:52He came up in passing.
06:54Some guy she'd been seeing.
06:56I never for a minute thought that he was going to play a part in her life.
07:03Tina started noticing things about Neil that were off-putting.
07:06I heard him have a phone conversation with his mother.
07:10And he was being so awful to her.
07:14And then there was the lying.
07:17He was clearly lying about his education.
07:21He told me he went to the London School of Economics.
07:25No, he didn't.
07:26Because I know the area quite well.
07:28We were talking about it and he didn't seem to know even where Alessi was.
07:33So it was these little things.
07:37Just as Tina's hoping that this relationship with Neil fades away,
07:42she starts to experience this familiar but concerning brain fog.
07:49I started to be quite forgetful.
07:56I remember one particular incident where I threw the rubbish away.
08:00And then I couldn't find my keys.
08:02I'm like, did I not throw the rubbish out?
08:05I threw my keys in the wheelie bin.
08:09Yes, I threw my keys in the wheelie bin.
08:12And I said, that's weird because the only time I've ever been that absent-minded is when I was pregnant
08:19with Leo.
08:23And then my period was late.
08:26So I got a pregnancy test.
08:30Immediately popped up.
08:33Pregnant.
08:35I was like, well, no, I can't be pregnant.
08:38Bought a few more.
08:41That didn't work.
08:44I thought, Neil doesn't know.
08:46He can have children.
08:49I thought maybe it's a medical mistake.
08:52Or it was truly a miracle.
08:57Tina decides to keep the baby and reaches out to Neil.
09:02And then he really got quite venomous.
09:06I cannot produce children.
09:09If you are pregnant, how you deal with it is not my problem.
09:23I had intercourse with somebody who I knew was infertile.
09:28And I was pregnant.
09:34So I sent him a text.
09:38Saying we should meet up and we can have a chat.
09:42He's like, I don't see why, if you've got something to tell me, why you can't tell me here.
09:46I'm like, okay.
09:49I am pregnant.
09:51It's yours.
09:54I don't want anything from you.
09:56But I'm letting you know.
09:59He said, nice try.
10:01I had a vasectomy.
10:05And I sent him a picture of the pregnancy test.
10:09And I said, well, it didn't work.
10:11And he started leaving voice messages, which were insane.
10:18You need to get yourself to a doctor and have a proper pregnancy test, not a piss on the stick
10:23one.
10:24But I have zero sperm.
10:27Don't sit there putting things on me that this could be mine.
10:30Because it isn't.
10:31Medically impossible.
10:35It wasn't like he was like, oh, go and have an abortion.
10:39He just didn't want to be blamed.
10:42You can keep the baby.
10:43Great for you.
10:45But it ain't mine, darling.
10:46It seriously, seriously isn't mine.
10:50He was just rude.
10:53I will have nothing to do with you.
10:55Nothing to do with your child.
10:59I didn't expect him to be angry with me.
11:04This man, who all his life thought he couldn't ever have children.
11:11Why isn't he happy?
11:20It got really weird.
11:24So I just said, you're more than welcome to take a DNA test when the baby's born.
11:30Neil refuses to do the DNA test.
11:33But Tina didn't need it.
11:34She knew he was the father.
11:35She hadn't been with anybody else.
11:37She just couldn't understand why he was adamantly denying it.
11:42But she moved on without Neil.
11:43And in January of 2017, Tina welcomed her baby girl, Josephine.
11:48And she calls her Fifi.
11:51When my daughter was born, she very quickly went blue.
12:00She had a lung infection.
12:01She was put into an incubator.
12:03She also had really serious jaundice.
12:08The treatment for the jaundice, the light treatment, wasn't working.
12:13And they said, there's only one more level we can go up before we have to give her a blood
12:17transfusion.
12:17And we're going to need blood types of the parents, any medical history.
12:22Tina was afraid for her baby's life.
12:24She hadn't spoken to Neil in months.
12:26But she had kept in touch with one of his friends.
12:28And she reached out to him to express the urgency of the situation.
12:32I suddenly get these long, nasty texts.
12:38How dare I contact his friend?
12:41Even if he did share DNA with my child, he would never want anything to do with someone as vile
12:49as me.
12:50And that he would not be giving any medical history.
12:56Just ugly messages to someone who had just given birth to his daughter who was potentially about to have a
13:03blood transfusion.
13:06Any person would make that phone call to help any baby.
13:11Most people would do more than that to help a kitten.
13:15This is not helping.
13:19Why?
13:24Luckily, she didn't need the blood transfusion.
13:27The next level of light did work.
13:29After a week in hospital, we were able to go home.
13:39Tina and the baby are settling in nicely at home.
13:42But she can't let go of how Neil conducted himself.
13:45So she decides to take action against him.
13:49I thought, I'm going to set the child maintenance service onto you for the next 18 years.
13:52Not because I want the money, but because you deserve it.
13:56Because you're not a nice person.
13:59Tina submitted an application to the child maintenance service, which is the UK's agency for child support.
14:04Boy, did it open up a box of worms.
14:10When the report came through, it said that it had been accepted and that he had been assessed five pounds
14:18a week.
14:19Because he was a benefits recipient, which was the first like, what?
14:23Like, I know this guy has business.
14:25But then the next really alarming thing was that that five pounds a week was split between
14:34four children.
14:38There were no names or details in the CMS report.
14:41So Tina decides to do her own investigation.
14:45The first thing I did was go to Facebook and I look up Neil's last name.
14:51Lawman.
14:52Straight away, up comes a profile.
14:55I thought, well, this must be his ex-wife.
14:59Or his current wife, who knows?
15:02Not in America, right here.
15:04Not far from where I now live.
15:06And on the profile was a picture of two young girls.
15:12And they looked like Fifi.
15:17I thought, should I write to her?
15:20So I did.
15:22And said, I've just had a baby.
15:24And the father is Neil Lawman.
15:27And quite quickly, she got back to me.
15:31The first line was just, I am so sorry that you have also been his victim.
15:38I'm like, oh.
15:39...
15:50Tina reaches out to a woman on Facebook that has the same last name as Neil, which is Lawman.
15:58she wrote back every word out of that man's mouth is a lie and he'd gone and left her with
16:06nothing
16:07but a mess and his two children's race and she was clearly traumatized
16:17I used to be married to Mil
16:26I chose to do this interview anonymously because I have two girls with Neil who are now grown up and
16:32they don't want this to come back and haunt them
16:37I would like Neil to suffer slowly torturously and I'd like to witness it
16:54Neil and I got married on August the 25th 2002
17:03we were together until November 2009 when he left
17:07Neil's ex-wife who doesn't want us to use her name tells Tina that they've never lived in the United
17:14States she did not leave Neil for his friend he's definitely the father of her two kids
17:20and he is never once mentioned having cancer
17:25at this point I realized that he had impregnated me maliciously he knew what he was doing I didn't
17:33really want to do this interview but I can't bear the thought of him having any more children with
17:39some other unsuspecting victim
17:43this is Neil's story to me so it may have some degree of untruth
17:51his mother had him when she was 16
17:55she told him that his father was Kevin Jones who she was then with
18:03they sat Neil down on his 18th birthday and told him that Kevin Jones was not his father and he
18:08had
18:08believed all that time that he was his father
18:12six months later Kevin Jones died of a heart attack and Neil doesn't know who his father is but I
18:18can
18:18imagine that finding something out like that when you're 18 probably could have contributed to his
18:25dysfunctional personality his ex-wife also shared that Neil used to go by Neil Jones but he changed his
18:33last name to his mother's maiden name which is Lawman Neil was very charming and very good at making
18:41people feel comfortable he appeared to be ambitious and he appeared to be a hard worker but he was very
18:50deceiving in all of those things never spent any time with the kids and he was having affairs
19:00even though things were getting really bad Neil's ex-wife tried to stick it out for the kids but Neil
19:05left
19:08he left his ex-wife for another relationship
19:13so he left in November 2009 the last time my daughter saw him was
19:17in March 2010 and they have not seen him since then
19:24Tina and Neil's ex-wife they start a connection they start talking on the phone and texting all the
19:29time so they decide to meet up in London we instantly got along I remember her saying to me all
19:37these
19:37years I felt like the stupidest woman in the world and then I meet you and you're like the smartest
19:42woman
19:43I've ever met and you would you and I felt exactly the same way about her there was a vindication
19:52I told Tina everything about my relationship with Neil
20:01they lived very lavishly she thought that he was doing well in business but actually
20:06she found out that he remortgaged their house without her knowing
20:11he also had 40 000 pounds worth of business debts which had a claim over the house and I didn't
20:19know
20:19anything about any of it so I had to put the house on the market sell it to pay off
20:24his debt and then start
20:26again Neil's ex and Tina chatted for hours and then she dropped a bombshell
20:34I said to Tina I hate to tell you this but Neil had two other sons
20:42after Neil left his ex-wife finds out through child maintenance services
20:46that he had two sons that he had had before they had ever met and he had never once mentioned
20:52them to her
20:55why would you want to have kids if you didn't want to have kids
21:02before calling it a night Tina had an idea
21:07I thought it would be funny to send him a little memento we took a picture and we're giving him
21:16the
21:16bird and we entitled it the other mother he didn't take it with humor
21:26he sent emails to my work
21:30he wrote very graphic awful depictions of the time that we dated and made it out to actually be something
21:38quite lewd and he sent it to the entire company I worked for if he'd have sent naked pictures of
21:48me it wouldn't have been less humiliating
21:53Tina was not about to be bullied by Neil
21:57so she reports the email to the police and they put out a warrant for his arrest for malicious
22:02communication the police told me he also had another warrant out for his arrest at the same time
22:09for fraud I learned that he was arrested 11 times and convicted five but Neil's never served more than
22:20a couple of days in prison he always gets suspended sentences
22:26and so Tina was hoping that with this malicious communications charge
22:30it would finally land him behind bars
22:34the police said they couldn't find him so the
22:37warrant got cancelled after a year and they didn't even let me know
22:44the man is still walking the streets and he is still capable of impregnating women and then
22:48walking away with total abandon so Tina had this idea to set up a facebook page to warn people about
22:54Neil
22:56the Neil Norman victim support group we just hoped that people would type his name into facebook before
23:05dating him or before going into business with him and it'll give them a little red flag
23:11Neil tried to get the facebook page taken down but Tina fought to keep it up and she won
23:20in the facebook group there are people who claim they have had business relationships with him that went
23:27very sour women that he has dated who claim he's turned on them family members of people that he's hurt
23:37who
23:37claim he's caused problems within the families there's quite a few landlords who claim he doesn't pay rent
23:45and what i wasn't expecting was other mothers
24:00how did we all meet
24:03how did you start
24:04well it's the first time i've actually met adele and claire in person
24:09we arranged for Tina to meet with three members of the neil lawman victim support group
24:14right now there are more than 150 members and of course karen yeah karen came to the group through
24:21neil's ex-wife and she says she was one of his first victims over 30 years ago so obviously you
24:28know about 30 odd years ago neil was quite young yeah yeah he wasn't like obviously what he is now
24:35he
24:35was obviously like just normal dude he was just a normal guy the thing is his ruse is normality he
24:42just
24:42pretends to be a normal bloke and that's how he gets you
24:48when i met neil i was 24. neil was 20. he was my neighbor
24:55in the beginning he was very charming it was like he was looking after me all the time
25:00in this relationship there was no mention of infertility or cancer and nine months into their
25:07relationship they get engaged and karen was pregnant when i told neil i was pregnant he was happy
25:14he's done the nursery up with me and there was no problem and when my son was born he was
25:22really
25:22hands-on
25:25it's kind of strange how neil goes from this loving father when his son is born in 1994
25:32to never mentioning him once to anyone he dates for the next 31 years
25:41my name's daniel and i'm neil's son
25:47i don't really remember much to be honest i think i try and block most of it out i don't
25:51really ask
25:51many questions about them not gonna change anything for me so the less i know the better i feel
25:57it's in this relationship where we see a pattern form neil starts off as a great guy but then he
26:03morphs into a completely different person becomes controlling and just plain mean he didn't like to be
26:09wrong or be told no and if i ever challenged him neil would say that i was really fat and
26:15ugly and
26:15if you leave me you'll be on your own you're going to become a single mum
26:20did go from like nothing to mad he just chipped away at me
26:28multiple women on facebook allege that neil was violent with them including karen
26:33at the time i did love him but i was nervous of him and i didn't want to make him
26:38angry because
26:39i got a smack i kept thinking it was going to be all right he didn't mean to do it
26:44he was really
26:45sorry he said i'll never do it again not get help a lot of what i'm hearing today is obviously
26:53the
26:53first time i'm hearing these these things and the more i hear is it's just shocking it's nothing less
27:00than scumbag in responding to a protective order sought against him neil denies physical abuse
27:06allegations and he was never convicted of any violent crimes but according to karen neil promised
27:13that he would change but things didn't get better so karen left neil when daniel was just 20 months
27:18old he was seeing him on weekend visits but there was loads of times where he'd let him down and
27:24not
27:24turn up and there was always an excuse so growing up there was a lot of bang on i was
27:31obviously upset
27:32there's some bits of damage but he's not going to come back he's not going to suddenly become my
27:36father again so i just sort of focus on the good parts of my life and getting to where i
27:42want to go
27:42to in my personal journey he doesn't have a relationship with his son no he didn't he was about six
27:53the last time i seen him was sitting in mcdonald's and there was like sea monkeys he gave me those
28:01and
28:01basically said that he couldn't see me no more and then he just literally disappeared went gone
28:08that was in 2000 the same year neil met his ex-wife who didn't even find out about daniel until
28:14after he left and she read the child maintenance service report there was another son that was
28:20listed on the cms report it was a son that he had when he was 18 and he ran off
28:25as soon as he was
28:26born and tina tracked down that mother on facebook she's very very direct she said just forget about
28:34him put him behind you don't think about him and um she said the day someone calls her to let
28:39her know
28:39that he's dropped dead will be the day she pops open a bottle of champagne through this facebook
28:46group another shocking detail comes to light 28 years after it happened two of his kids were born
28:54eight weeks apart those two boys were born to mothers who lived on the same street one of the moms
29:02was
29:03karen he also had a girlfriend down the road tina phoned me she just said how old was dan and
29:12i said
29:12he's 28 in august and she said i think you should hear it from me there's another child and he
29:16was 28 in
29:17june i was like oh oh okay i was waiting for who else there is
29:26i call myself the one who got away
29:37how did it feel to you when you found out there was another woman who had a baby at the
29:41same time
29:42to be honest because i've been speaking to you guys i wasn't actually really shocked
29:45just made daniel a bit further down in the pecking order
29:51she lived on the same street literally the same street i didn't know that obviously how did they keep
29:56you separated and not cross paths we had to move quickly you have to think to yourself how has he
30:02managed to do this to people and keep doing it just gets more and more insane
30:16i kind of struck up a relationship with neil through a facebook business group in 2015.
30:24i was going through a divorce and i had two young boys i wasn't looking for a relationship or anything
30:31like that but there was this underlying charisma that kind of came across once you started speaking to
30:38him that's when he reeled you in the first time i heard about the infertility we'd been out for drinks
30:54and the next morning i woke to find him in my bed
31:03we hadn't been intimate prior to this i remember saying to him oh my god did did we have sex
31:09last
31:09night and he was like don't you remember and he made it all jokey and like made me feel a
31:14bit stupid
31:15for not remembering and i said did we use something obviously i didn't want to have any more children
31:23and um he said to me listen don't worry don't worry i can't have children anyway
31:30i've had testicular cancer i had to go through chemotherapy i have no more spam cells
31:38i was ashamed i needed to close that chapter
31:45neil tried to see claire again even though she never became pregnant by him she cut him off
31:52he targets divorced women with children and with careers and yeah he's definitely followed a
31:58a pattern he goes for successful secure women and then tries to drag them down
32:12when i reached out to his most recent girlfriend she was really under his control
32:23i'm rachel and i met neil lawman through my business i had at the time neil came across very
32:30like a successful businessman and caring person in the beginning of the relationship he was really
32:36good around my kids and my kids really liked him neil did tell rachel about his two daughters
32:41with his ex-wife but there was no mention of any other children and in the two and a half
32:47years that
32:47they are together there was no mention of infertility no mention of cancer but he had other stories to
32:52tell he told me about all the property that he owns and how he used to work for the government
32:59and how he used to be an ex-pro ice hockey player everything he told me was a lie but
33:06he says it in
33:06such a way it's very believable so i never really questioned it rachel and her kids moved in with neil
33:12at first they stayed in his two-bedroom apartment but then rachel bought her own house and neil came
33:18with her and according to her he slowly started to change it was mentally controlling it's weird he
33:24had that thing about you where he would pick you up and lift you up you think great i feel
33:27amazing
33:28but then he would really drop you down and just kind of pick on the things you don't like
33:34the way i dress the way i look and then by the end he was distant from everyone
33:39he didn't really show any emotional care or interest in me or my kids
33:45rachel's family is concerned about neil and rachel has an aunt that decides to do her own investigation
33:52and finds this facebook page and shows rachel and rachel is horrified by what she sees and it
33:59motivates her to leave neil she sends him an email saying that she's left and then he starts bombarding
34:05her with voice messages rachel i've just got your email and i am absolutely gutted i want to be with
34:16you i love you please answer my call rachel please please come home at the beginning it was very desperate
34:25and then it kind of turned nasty you snuck off and i'm walking around the house thinking well all
34:32this is mine all this is mine i have got nowhere to go and i am not leaving this house
34:41i just ignored it there's no way to get me back now not a chance in hell rachel's lucky that
34:48she was
34:48able to completely cut neil out of her life so many women are still connected to neil through their
34:53children and how many children neil has is hard to confirm when it comes to kids that there's
35:00either a dna test or he's on their birth certificate there's five some people have reached out and said
35:09that they have his child i think there's 13 alleged children
35:17tina got one of the uk's largest newspapers the times to cover the story
35:35of neil lawman we got to a stage where if we wanted to run the story we needed
35:49to gather some hard evidence we did a dna test between my daughter and his ex-wife's two daughters
36:00neil's on their birth certificate the markers came through on their dna test more than most
36:07full siblings have it's ironclad
36:14i know tina is campaigning for lying to someone about being infertile to be made a criminal offense
36:21there is absolutely justice that needs to be served against neil
36:26i want him to be convicted of rape by deception
36:40neil had gone to such lengths with his lies to impregnate me with a child he had no intentions
36:49of being part of at one point there was a police officer who did take a great interest and start
36:58investigating neil's actions and she said it really did fit with rape by deception
37:06rape by deception falls outside the typical definition of rape it's an argument that says a
37:12perpetrator deceived someone in order to get consent i didn't consent to be with a fertile man
37:21there's another high profile case in the uk where a man lied about having a vasectomy and got a woman
37:26pregnant and the rape by deception argument was used and he was found guilty but ultimately he was able
37:32to have that verdict overturned it was overturned because rape by deception has to be connected
37:41to the sex act itself not the circumstances around the act now it's precedent so tina's investigation
37:49was dropped you can't seem to pin him down and prosecute him for anything the rape by deception
37:55malicious communication yeah frauds all been swept under the rug and i'd love to see change yeah
38:02yeah happening but what we have managed to do is if not stop him slow him down
38:10these women aren't expecting neil to make any admissions anytime soon they're just left wondering
38:16why neil is the way he is do you think it's a control thing i don't think so because he
38:23goes for
38:23women that are freshly divorced so there's that vulnerability about them even though they are
38:27strong independent yeah and that's where he gets in at and it's from then he kind of monopolizes
38:35everything you can't put it down to trauma or anything for him because he had a good upbringing
38:39he's got a good family he's got no excuse whatsoever i know because of the facebook group and after
38:49the times article people aren't buying into his fraud so much and his romantic charms and so i think his
38:57lifestyle has definitely taken a downturn
39:05betrayal's investigative team went to neil's home in jay wick to get his side of the story
39:19hi i think all the mothers have worried about nature and nurture
39:39but i've met a number of the children and they're all beautiful souls
39:48my girls have really developed into successful smart adults in spite of what he did
39:58my daughter is the most empathetic kind sweet little girl there's no faulty wiring in her
40:10that looks like me
40:13i think it looks just like you actually we've had some conversations about neil and what i've
40:21let her know is that she's been lucky that she's grown up being given a lot of love and a
40:28lot of affection
40:29and a lot of attention so she's able to go and give it to other people and i said not
40:35everyone
40:37is filled with that when they're growing up and unfortunately he's one of those people that just
40:42doesn't have it to give she doesn't ever seem particularly fazed by it when neil's ex-wife told
40:50her daughters about fifi they wanted to meet her and now they have a relationship they've been in her
40:55life since she was three months old she absolutely adores them she's met daniel her half-brother as
41:02well and and i think she just feels quite fulfilled by having people who genuinely care about her so
41:09why would she care about someone who doesn't i wish for his future that it's exactly what he deserves
41:19but let's end on a positive note and say that doesn't he have amazing taste in women
41:29whether he'll actually face justice or not i hope so but
41:34i hope that all i can do is tell my story and hope that someone listens who has the power
41:42to do
41:42something about it
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