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Dot and Bubble is one of the most complex Doctor Who episodes in years, and there's so much to chew on. Callie Cooke's performance, the themes and nuances of the story, and of course, Ricky September. Let's discuss!
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00:00Hello, hello, hello! Welcome back, everyone, to our Doctor Who discussion videos, and I am joined once again by the
00:05wonderful Mick Jost of CinemaBlend. Mick, thank you so much for joining us again.
00:09Thanks for having me. Ellie made the joke, I regenerated, but now that I'm back and that she's been proven
00:15alive, I think it's a bi-generation. We kind of just split from each other in the middle.
00:19I like this. I was wondering if, like, every week is a regeneration, but actually you're pulling a David Tennant,
00:25and you're like, no, I'm hanging on, I'm hanging on, and I'm staying.
00:28But, yeah, bi-generation is good as well. Ellie out there going, like, I will be back.
00:34But, yes, to all those wondering, Ellie is alive and well. She will be back for the Rogue discussion, and
00:40I think, as far as I know, she's just...
00:42I'm not even going to mention Rogue for a minute, because we'll talk about that at the end.
00:45Okay.
00:47But, so, this episode has people talking, so let's jump into it straight away. What are overall thoughts, Dot and
00:55Bubble? What do you reckon?
00:56So, here's the thing.
00:59I don't want to step too much on all the things we'll be drilling down on further, but I am
01:04semi-embarrassed, to admit.
01:07I had seen the episode far in advance, and I was waiting for the Who Culture crew to pop on.
01:12You guys watch it all, the wee hours of the morning, and have this big discussion.
01:17And as I was sitting there, we got to talking, and somebody was like, well, yeah, you know, the racism
01:23element.
01:23And I was like, racism? It's like, what? There's racism? And I actually kind of, like, replied back.
01:29I was like, oh, I didn't... I thought they were just, like, elitist snobs, and I just thought, like, the
01:33whole message was they were idiots.
01:35And then, all of a sudden, people started laying... I started seeing the tweets, and people were laying it out,
01:39and I went back, and I was like, oh, yeah, this is about racism.
01:45So, I know for some people, I saw the comments that they were like, oh, this was incredibly obvious, you
01:50know, like, I called it from the start.
01:52For me, not at all. I was like, this is a social media episode, this is about giant bug monsters
01:58eating, and I was so... they got me hook, line, and sinker.
02:01I was so drilled down on trying to find the relevance of that, completely just blindsided me.
02:06And then, now that I saw it, I honestly think my initial feelings about the episode have elevated, now that
02:13I know kind of the true meaning behind it.
02:15Okay, that's really interesting, because I don't have a vastly different initial experience from yourself.
02:22Now, I did the ending of it straight away. I went, oh, this is... this is overt racism.
02:28I did, full disclosure, and people who've watched the ups and downs will know this, I thought it was a
02:33mix of the two.
02:34I thought it was more that the top half of the episode was our echo chambers, our social media bubbles,
02:41our very big elitism that then racism played a part of.
02:48Then, like that, it was people like, well, did you not see X, Y, Z?
02:51And I was just like, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.
02:54Because I came out of this episode, my initial reaction was, that was the weakest episode of the season to
03:04date.
03:05I thought, you know, I just... because I found there was no likable characters outside of the Doctor Ruby.
03:14So I thought, we'd spend all this time trying to save these characters, and then, you know, nothing.
03:20So, so, so, like, my message being, you know, the Doctor will always try and save people, regardless of whether
03:26they're good or bad.
03:27That's what the Doctor does, and that is in there.
03:31And then, I was like, oh, I, I, I did manage to, I did manage to miss some of the,
03:38some of the things that are now, you're just like, oh, so, so on rewatch, it's completely changed how I've,
03:45how I've taken the episode.
03:47In fact, so I, I went from being, oh, I mean, okay, walking out of it the first time, to
03:52this was the most uncomfortable episode of the season, including the real-time boom, I found a more comfortable watch
04:01than Dot and Bubble on rewatch.
04:04I would agree, and I would say, uh, to viewers and listeners, as two white men sitting here, I think
04:10that was the confrontation of, like, it kind of shook me a little bit, to be like, because I generally,
04:16you know, I find myself, I don't find myself.
04:17I'm an ally, you know, I'm all, I watch these shows because I'm in support of those things, um, and
04:23yet, it was thrown in my face that you can be oblivious to obvious racism of others, uh, right there,
04:29and completely flew over my head, and I was like, wow, you know, I was like, what a learning experience
04:34for me, um, and yeah, it's definitely made me feel better, you know, I, my, it elevated the episode for
04:39me, like I said.
04:39Yeah, it is, uh, you, you, you said it there, it's like, and as you say as well, yes, as
04:44to milk bottle white people, we, we went in, I mean, we, we obviously went in with assumptions, uh, I,
04:54I, I would have said to you watching it first way, oh, you know, kind of, and then, you know,
04:58I would have done the ups and downs going, oh, you know, it was clearly the main message being about,
05:03you know, we, we keep to our bubbles, we keep to, you know, we, we see what we want to
05:08see.
05:08which is there, but it's more of a tool than the message, and yeah, it's like, guess what, guys, you
05:19know, you are, you are, I don't want to say guilty, but guilty of, you know, it's not seeing what's
05:26happening around you, and that's why when you see that, when I said, when I was reading the comments going,
05:30you know, how did you not notice that, you do, you ask yourself, oh, God, because there is that, because
05:35then, so say, for example, the doctor pops up on Lindy,
05:38screen, she blocks him instantly, right, she, she actually listens to Ruby for a second, um, and that subtlety, you
05:48know, because where I would have gone, like, oh, perhaps this is a male-female thing, um, and you're like,
05:55oh, you, okay, so there's one thing, that's the first thing you miss straight away, and then, you know, you
06:01will be disciplined after this, and right,
06:04One of the most uncomfortable lines on Rewatch are Lindy saying to the doctor, oh, are these slug things to
06:11do with you?
06:12Right.
06:13And that makes me like, ah, ugh.
06:16It's, it's funny, because in, in context, if you're a Doctor Who fan, it plays off very much in the
06:24way that people say microaggressions are, uh, seemingly innocuous comments that, that makes sense because it's Doctor Who.
06:31The doctor could be blamed for something because he's the doctor, and, you know, all, you know, they feel innocent
06:37until you get the context, and you're like, wait, they're not.
06:40Um, to even go back further, the thing I think that blindsided me was the fact that literally every actor
06:47in this episode but the doctor is white, and that I was like, how did I not notice that?
06:52How did that not just smack me in the face immediately?
06:55Um, and of course, history of past television shows where that was very much a thing, uh, of course, we've
07:03made giant strides of inclusivity and diversity since then.
07:06Um, but yeah, just not even something I was, I just felt myself getting more embarrassed the most of it
07:12popped out because I was like, how did I not know?
07:15How did I not know?
07:16I think you, I mean, you're, you're sort of, it's, I can almost imagine, you know, Russell T sitting there
07:23smug, you know, when, you know, people are just like, oh, it's about this.
07:28And he's just like, you didn't notice, that was sort of the point.
07:34Um, and it worked.
07:36It worked.
07:38Uh, yeah, it was because, so my, I suppose to be to the end, which I shouldn't, but I, but
07:44I kind of have to speak about the end first.
07:46Mine was just like, just the utter yuck of everything about the ending.
07:53You're like, it's like, how, hold on, hold on.
07:56So, so this person has directly saved your life.
08:01And the idea that you would travel with him is so anathema that like, and I have to say as
08:08well, and this is something that I said in the ups and downs that I realized.
08:13So, Callie played a blinder.
08:17Callie Cook had the most thankless job in the world, which was play this character completely, so irredeemable, so irredeemable.
08:30And yet there were still moments where I was hoping she wouldn't get eaten by the slugs, you know, because
08:36there's, because there's, she plays her as sort of stupid, but she's not stupid.
08:46You kind of see those two things as well.
08:49You know what I mean?
08:49She's living in her world.
08:51And, you know, this is the way she does things.
08:53And she has her bubble.
08:57And, and there, there is something with it.
08:59You have, you have kind of hope for her.
09:02Yeah.
09:02I think ironically, you would call her more ignorant than stupid, which I think is sometimes a label used towards
09:09racist.
09:09They are ignorant people.
09:11Most people with lived inexperience, sometimes, you know, have a different perspective and change their ways.
09:18But yeah, no, that's definitely, you feel like, yeah, you are stupid, but it seems like it's a construct of
09:25this world you're living in that you don't know how to care for yourself outside of the Statenbubble kind of
09:29thing.
09:30Yeah.
09:31Like the, the, the, the thing I still have to say, I, I think was maybe a bit too far
09:35was she can't walk.
09:38That one was just like, all right.
09:40Like you're, you're, you're doing it with the other things you're showing us.
09:43The fact she can't walk without being told, walk left, walk right, walk forward.
09:47But then again, that might be somebody else's favorite bit of the episode.
09:49So, um.
09:51So I thought it was funny at first.
09:52And then also, but then there was just scenes where she was just walking and running.
09:56Like it wasn't too much of a problem.
09:58So there was, there was definitely some trouble with consistency and like keeping that straight.
10:02There wasn't a little, but I, I, I suppose I, I feel, I feel bad for, for, for, for Danny
10:05now who's written all these notes for us to follow and everything.
10:07We're just like, you know, kind of, yeah, what?
10:11And so the, so obviously we're going to, we're going to come back to the ending again, but now we
10:17know, obviously it runs all throughout the episode.
10:18So the actual, the social media, the echo chamber commentary, how well do you think that that was achieved?
10:27Uh, I think there was a time where I would have said that like the Ricky September bit was just
10:34too like corny and stuff and like not representative, but that is 100%.
10:39There's so many Tik TOK influencers now who are exactly like Ricky September is where literally they're famous because they
10:45do a dance and they do it to a certain song.
10:48And I'm guilty of it as well.
10:50I have people and I scroll through and I like every time I'm like, Oh, let me like that video
10:54of them doing that exact same dance to that exact same song.
10:57And, uh, Ricky September is just like a perfect version of that where it's like, you know, you don't even
11:02really know anything until she meets him in person.
11:05You're just like, Oh, this is what he's about.
11:07And he's so popular and everyone loves him, but like really nobody knows anything about him.
11:12I think, I think you're right.
11:13I think we, we, we know now that this idea was pitched in 2010 to be an 11th doctor episode.
11:19Obviously, I mean, there's obvious things that would have to change.
11:23I mean, obviously you have changed, but I think as well, then it would have been more, would it be
11:29more Instagram?
11:30Would it be more like, you know, here's the image, here's the image.
11:32See now we're post Tik TOK.
11:35We're certainly during, maybe post Tik TOK.
11:37It could maybe be, I don't know when Vine was around.
11:39It could have been Vine.
11:40It could have also been Vine.
11:43Yeah, actually, actually, I think, I think Vine was around.
11:47Okay.
11:47The question for the comments, when was Vine around?
11:51Well, yes, this, this idea, I mean, like I have, I mean, lockdown, I'm probably responsible for half the likes
11:56on those dance videos.
11:59And I wonder actually, is this an episode that would perhaps hit even harder in lockdown?
12:03This idea of you're, you're so secluded from the world around you.
12:09You know, I thought the actual, the interface that I can easily see that becoming real, not too far in
12:16the future.
12:17You know, if people like Elon get their brain chips sorted out and, you know, kind of, I mean, Google
12:22Glass nearly did it.
12:23I mean, you know, you know, these kinds of things that, that to me was very realistic, you know, and
12:29how we will hide behind this.
12:30But yeah, technically you can see the world around you, but if you choose not to look, you won't see
12:34it.
12:35Definitely.
12:36And it's kind of funny because I feel like a lot of this episode feels like it was shot, like
12:40a lockdown episode when they had all those restrictions.
12:43Where it was like, you could feasibly see people filming this on a Zoom call.
12:47And then you just have one person on a closed set running around in those small portions.
12:53You know, just the very limited scenes where you have to have actual people interacting.
12:57It definitely felt like something that would have been filmed during lockdown.
12:59I see.
13:00I think, yeah.
13:01I wonder, have they come to us all, was this actually filmed four years ago?
13:05And they were just like, we actually have this sitting in the bank.
13:09So then, like you said as well, running around, because it is, it's, this is very small sets.
13:16You know, kind of like there's Lindy's room, Lindy's office, which is Lindy's room with its bed taken out.
13:20You know, things like that.
13:21What did you think of the realization of the world of fine time?
13:25Um, it was pretty cool.
13:26It was funny.
13:28It was just, you know, it was one of those, it had a Black Mirror feel to it.
13:32It felt like they definitely were lifting Black Mirror elements from it.
13:35Um, not exactly a, a Doctor Who aesthetic in all the way.
13:39Like, even from the time I saw the preview, I was like, that feels like they're copying Black Mirror.
13:43That doesn't feel like Doctor Who.
13:45The slugs, I would say, are more Doctor Who-ish.
13:47But the overall aesthetic.
13:49Oh.
13:49Um, have you seen, sorry, have you seen the image that's been floating around already, which is, oh, actually, what
13:58I'm saying, I think you shared it with me.
13:59The slug eating one of the, uh, one of the kids.
14:02It was just, you know, like really bright pastel saying, eat the rich.
14:05Yeah, it's great stuff.
14:08Huh.
14:09Um, then, you know, this, that the color coded, the colors are bloody everywhere when you think about it, but
14:14the color coded images and the windows that they look at, everything is this bright and yet pastel, um, this
14:24palette.
14:24And it's so, it's very, as you say, Black Mirror, Nosedive, I don't think you can avoid the comparisons between
14:34the two of them.
14:35Um, I, I believe Russell has basically said as much, um, which is, as long as you're not out and
14:43out stealing anything, we live in a era where, you know, everything interbleeds.
14:48Um, I suppose maybe this is an unfair question, but of the two of them, which one do you prefer?
14:52I presume you've seen Nosedive.
14:55Yes.
14:56Um, I got Dot and Bubble.
15:00Let's say Dot and Bubble.
15:01Yeah.
15:02Yeah, I think, and not just to keep a job in Who Culture, but yeah, I think the same.
15:06Um, because of how bloody insidious it is.
15:10Yes.
15:12Nosedive is, I really liked the episode, but it's very much more straightforward than Dot and Bubble is.
15:20Um, there, there is bits of Dot and Bubble I still didn't like.
15:23Like, I'm not sold on the Dots going mad.
15:27Yeah, there was, there was, there was a few things.
15:30Um, my thing I think I'll save till we get closer to the ending, because I just, I feel like
15:34it played into how I perceived the whole moment.
15:36But, um, yeah, the Dots changing, um, I believe you brought it up, the Dots becoming sentient and killing people.
15:44Um, I mean, they could have just done that the entire time.
15:47You didn't even need the Slugs to be involved in the situation.
15:49Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not clear.
15:52Are they allied with the Slugs?
15:54Did they create the Slugs?
15:55Did the Slugs arrive?
15:56The Dots said, handy.
15:58You know, um, I'm, I'm not really sure.
16:01And then, if the Slugs have destroyed all of the whole world, how did they get into fine time?
16:07Did the Slugs create fine time?
16:09Are they farming the children?
16:10I think there's, there's so much, I feel, okay, we can, we can revisit this at the ending, because it
16:15plays into my whole, my whole gripe.
16:18And I think I understand, it explains it, and then also, okay, we can just get into that.
16:22Um, well, we must discuss Ricky September.
16:25I mean, as you say, I mean, we have all seen those influencers that, you know, um, you know, they,
16:31they, they do their dance, they make their millions, fair play.
16:34And then we meet Ricky, and you're like, oh, well, you're a person.
16:41You know, you're, you're, you're like, you're, you're like, okay, right, so you're doing your job, which is the, as
16:46he says, I've done my few videos, I upload them in the morning, then I tell you that, I read
16:49books, I relax.
16:51And he then fills this role that the doctor normally fills, uh, for a while.
16:57And, again, the reaction Lindy has to Ricky, versus the reaction Lindy has to the doctor, is incredibly obvious.
17:07Um, but then, do you know what, somebody pointed out to, to me as well, it's like, uh, it's like,
17:12yeah, you know, great Ricky seems to be this level-headed character who we like, and it's gonna help everyone.
17:18And then somebody goes, yeah, but, you know, if Ricky met the doctor at the end, Ricky would be exactly
17:23the same as Lindy.
17:26See, here's, oh man, gosh, we, once we get to that point, there's just so much, so much I gotta
17:33say.
17:33But overall, on Ricky September, the, it's funny, um, to see, and I, I almost wish I would have spent
17:40more time on it.
17:41But, the weird feeling of meeting someone that you've seen online, a lot, is, there's, there's no avoiding that.
17:48I mean, you and I have talked so many times, we've never met each other in person.
17:52Um, and I've had that experience with many other people, and when you see them for the first time, there's
17:56so much, you're like, oh, I've only realized that I've only seen you from the shoulders up my entire life.
18:01Now I know how all you are.
18:04Yeah, I can see what clothes you're wearing, you know, it's just, it's a different experience.
18:08Uh, it feels familiar, but at the same time, I don't know, it's a weird, it's a weird feeling, and
18:12I wish I would have, Lindy would have hit on that more, like, maybe commenting that he looks more handsome
18:17in person or something like that.
18:18Most people say my voice is, uh, higher than what they call my voice.
18:23It's like, that doesn't seem, that's not something you say to people that's nice.
18:26Like, say that to me.
18:29It's great.
18:29I mean, I'm going to say, I really enjoy the, the deep vocal synthesizer you use when you're, when you
18:34have to leave these calls.
18:36Um, there was, there, like, one of the few nice moments of the episode is when she talks, but, you
18:43know, this was her first hug ever.
18:46And, and Russell sneaking in there as well, Ricky asking for consent.
18:51Quit to, like, appreciate little moments like this.
18:54Just wish any of the characters had been nicer.
18:56But, you know, like, you know, is it okay if I give you a hug?
19:00She's like, oh, it's my first hug ever.
19:01It was great.
19:03And there's such a lot of moments.
19:05Those little moments are just like, oh, hang on, is there a human being inside of there?
19:13Um, and, you know, when we get down, you know, we follow Ricky.
19:17Ricky is very the doctor because when Ricky discovers the truth, he lies.
19:22And that's very the doctor.
19:25Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ricky, Ricky has very doctor-esque qualities.
19:31Um, and yeah, I don't, I don't know if he's just, when I think about him in the context of
19:38the episode, knowing what we know, is it because he's the rebellious, like, you know, like how rich kids become
19:44hippies despite their million dollar mansions kind of thing?
19:47Or is he genuine and, um, a truly a changed person because of the things that he experiences and lives?
19:56Obviously, the hope is that he, he is the one who's on the way to seeing what the real world
20:06is around him.
20:07Um, you know, kind of presented with, he's not using the bubble, you know, he's learning to look beyond.
20:15And, you know, the sad thing is we will never know, um, because of Lindy, um, that was one of
20:22the, when you were watching it, how, so that scene, that scene, uh, what was your, what was your reaction
20:29to that?
20:29And this is, I feel like I just got to get into it now.
20:32We just got to get into it.
20:33This is what I feel like made the message land weird for me at the end.
20:38It made me oblivious to the racism.
20:40I was so concerned thinking that Lindy was trying to cover up that she threw Ricky September under the bus
20:47and had him killed that the whole racism overtones completely took me by surprise.
20:53Like I did, you know, I did, I just wasn't paying attention to that because I thought the doctor and
20:57Ruby are weird because they know Ricky was fine before the bubble disconnected.
21:01And then all of a sudden she's on the other side and she's not really wanting to talk about it.
21:05So I was kind of, I think I was measuring my, you know, expectations the other way, thinking like they
21:11were going to have some aha moment where they discovered Ricky wasn't okay.
21:15Um, but here's what I will say in defense of Ricky September.
21:19Um, I believe that Ricky September would have not been racist.
21:25I think first off, he has a very brief interaction with the doctor and he's cordial and he's nice.
21:30Um, and I also appreciated, uh, Ruby fixing her hair and trying to look all done up for, uh, Ricky
21:36September and their brief interaction.
21:37She's like getting ready to address them.
21:40Uh, that was great.
21:41But because, and this is why I think Russell thinks that because Lindy killing Ricky September to protect herself is
21:51an evil thing.
21:51And kind of hints that she may not be the best person, but I don't really see a need for
21:57Ricky to die unless there was a chance Ricky would have tried to plead with them to also go with
22:02the doctor.
22:02So you fix the problem by having Ricky die before she goes into the room.
22:07Um, that way there's no one to speak out against or trying to hear him out.
22:11I wonder, was it, uh, the double barrel of that?
22:17Because at that point I wrote Lindy off in my head.
22:19So that was, and that's before she even walks through the door.
22:22Uh, but the other one of just like, yes, we've only got 10 minutes left, you know, um, you know,
22:28kind of like, and frankly, we're not bringing somebody else with us.
22:33That's kind of the point of the ending as nobody goes with them.
22:35So I think you might be right because killing him, it makes her completely irredeemable.
22:43Um, so it's not, it's not again.
22:46It's not that the ending doesn't hit bloody hell.
22:48It does.
22:49Um, but it's kind of like, oh, oh, you're the worst.
22:54Oh, it gets worse.
22:56Oh no.
22:57Um, like you're the worst.
22:59And then as we discover, I kind of get the feeling that in that final scene, you learn any one
23:06of them would have stepped over any of them to survive.
23:12That, yeah, like that, you're kind of like, you know, oh, there's kind of this, this fake kumbaya of like,
23:16oh, we're all together.
23:17All of our members of fine time.
23:19We've escaped.
23:20We've survived.
23:20And of course, they're all as bad as each other, as we can see in their interactions with the doctor.
23:26Is that just, that just what people do on this?
23:30But was Ricky the outlier, you know, that he tried to help Lindy?
23:35The, I suppose before we get, as we already have discussed the ending, that scene, I didn't realize at the
23:39time, of course, that scene of Ruby and the doctor was the first scene they filmed together.
23:44Mm-hmm.
23:44Yeah.
23:46That's hell of a scene.
23:47Yeah.
23:48To do, uh, shooty Gato's first day on the set.
23:51And he has to deliver an emotional speech tied to racism.
23:55You know, imagine doing that first day on the job in Doctor Who.
23:59Like, Russell, are you okay?
24:02Like, you know, like, yeah, just poor, the poor man's only just started.
24:05But I mean, just considering that's day, however many days it took to film, but considering that's day one.
24:14Like, bloody hell, shooty Gato in that scene is just, I mean, because I felt his, he was so, I
24:25think, I think I phrased it the ups and downs of the, are you mm-mm me about the reactions
24:33around?
24:34Like, it's because a few people, um, have, I've said in the comments, well, like, so, yes, 15 cries a
24:41bit, nothing wrong with that.
24:42But in this scene, you see the tears, and I thought, those tears are not for him, it's the tears
24:48of utter indignation, frustration, surprise for them.
24:55That they would live such a stupid, ignorant existence.
25:01That, you know, even after, however bloody old the Doctor is at this point, there's, God, who, who has a
25:08definitive number for how old the Doctor is?
25:09But after that many years, he can still meet people who can shock him with their stupidity like that.
25:17Yeah, I mean, shooty Gato, he's just, uh, I don't think I've ever immediately resonated with a Doctor as quickly
25:27as I have his.
25:28Um, his acting is phenomenal.
25:30Uh, he puts a lot of emotion into what he does, but I feel like he's very representative of the
25:36times that we're in.
25:37He's not just someone who's good at playing the Doctor.
25:39He, him and, uh, Millie Gibson, they represent, I feel like, the younger Gen Z generation and the shifting times,
25:46uh, in the world in a way that we haven't seen with the Doctor in a very long time.
25:52Um, they just feel so of this time while still being out of time.
25:56At the same time, you know, it feels like Doctor Who really hitting on cultural relevance, which is great.
26:02When sci-fi hits cultural relevance, that's when it speaks to people the most.
26:06I, I mean, I completely agree.
26:08Like, if, you know, what is sci-fi but just real life with spaceships?
26:15I'm generalizing, you know.
26:16And when it can do that in such a way that, I mean, this, what was it?
26:23Somebody, somebody commented, I apologize for not knowing the, the username, uh, called this episode, let that be your last
26:29bubble field.
26:30Uh, and I thought, that is an amazing description for taking something as depressingly every day as the, the, myself
26:41and Danny were talking, the banality of racism and the banality of ignorance.
26:47And putting it front and center so much so that, you know, I managed to get toward the last act
26:55of the episode and go, and even, and even on first watch, I didn't get that that's what I'd been
27:00watching for, for the whole time.
27:03And on rewatching, like, as, as we said, how did you miss this?
27:06Because it's the every day of it all.
27:12And, and I, I think it's, it's very telling that Ruby has the first overt reaction.
27:19The doctor gets it like that, right?
27:21You can see that in shooty, but it's Ruby.
27:23I think Ruby says something like, oh my God.
27:26And she kind of turns away and she puts her hand on his arm.
27:28And because I think, I think he is so disappointed that, you know, like he has his outburst and it's
27:37incredible, but I think Ruby's more surprised than the doctor is.
27:43The doctor has been around for a long time.
27:46Also, uh, Gallifreyan by nature.
27:49So maybe the concept, you know, humans reacting to racism may have a little bit more vitriol than a thousand
27:55year old Time Lord.
27:56But, um, I, you definitely, I feel like he expresses the frustration of refusing to help people who he knows
28:03is most assuredly going to die when he's like, I don't care.
28:06Just let me help you.
28:08We know how much the doctor hates when he can't help someone and he feels powerless.
28:12And that is that scene where he realizes like, damn it, they don't like the color of my skin and
28:17there's nothing I can say.
28:18And they're just going to go to the woods and die.
28:20And I just got to let it happen.
28:22And I guess, you know, that was myself, myself and Danny were talking like, you know, you know, part of
28:26us, you know, we want to see them get their comeuppance, have the slugs waiting on the other side of
28:30that waterfall.
28:31I do think in that moment, it would have come across as perhaps comedic.
28:35And it was the entire wrong tone to do that.
28:38Um, I think it's, it's enough to know that they're not making it out of there.
28:43And yeah, I think, I think the scene as is works.
28:47I mean, this is a deeply uncomfortable episode.
28:53Um, and you know, I like, it is one that, you know, it, it's designed for a rewatch.
29:02I don't want to rewatch it, but I will.
29:05Um, and I have, I have a feeling that I'm going to, you know, sort of now that I know,
29:10I will, of course, be keyed to keep my eyes open a bit more, which I think possibly is one
29:15of the messages.
29:16It's like, it was all there.
29:18You didn't see it.
29:20It was all there.
29:21Yeah.
29:22Spot the signs, spot the signs.
29:23Be aware the next time it pops up.
29:25Um, yeah, no, I totally agree with you in the fact that I would say, uh, outside of the church
29:32on Ruby road, because every year I just love just binging through a bunch of Dr. Who Christmas specials around
29:36the holidays.
29:37This is probably the most rewatchable of the ones that we've seen so far that I know.
29:42I know at some point I will be rewatching it just because it's just such a powerful one that you
29:48want to revisit.
29:50So first of all, ranking.
29:52So we have our ranking from last week.
29:54Uh, so we're, we're pretty similar overall with how our rankings are.
30:01Where would, where does dot and bubble fit for you?
30:05Oof, man.
30:07So I hyped it up and I think it's a very memorable episode.
30:10Would I put it above 73 yards?
30:12I don't know.
30:17And I think I will move the devil.
30:20So I have, I'll go 73 yards, dot and bubble, devil's cord, boom, church on Ruby road, and space babies.
30:27That's my ranking best, best, uh, great.
30:31I'll say.
30:32I think, right.
30:33So, cause ours are really similar.
30:35So if I'm, if I'm ranking by the episodes I enjoyed watching the most, I would put don bubble down
30:43the bottom.
30:43But if I, if I rank it on which one I think is the best episode well made, uh, I
30:52mean, I have boom in at number one there.
30:55Um, this is number, I'm going to, yeah, number two, boom is number one, dot and bubble number two, 73
31:01yards, devil's cord, Ruby road, space babies.
31:04And I did not, when I did, when I was doing the ups and downs, even, I didn't expect that
31:08to be the ranking.
31:09I will say my ranking is influenced by the fact I have seen an advanced screener of rogue.
31:15And I know that dot and bubble will eventually be my three spot because not to overhype, but I think
31:21rogue is going to fall on a lot of people's top two spot.
31:25So that is it.
31:26So normally, obviously what we'll do with this boys, we'll go through the preview for next week, but you've seen
31:31rogue.
31:32I have not seen rogue.
31:33So what, what, what completely spoiler free things can you say, um, that, uh, that we can leave to tantalize
31:43the poor audience who are like, sorry, what?
31:46Yes.
31:46Um, gosh, there's some, I, I won't spoil anything for anybody, but I can say that you've seen the preview.
31:54It's, you know, as Ruby says, very Bridgerton there in a Victorian kind of thing.
31:59Um, and there is things that will happen that will have people all over the internet and I think it
32:07will have a lasting impact on the series overall.
32:12Okay.
32:12Okay.
32:13I did like that there's owl people.
32:16Yes.
32:17Yes.
32:17They are.
32:18They look like, um, not to do the crossover to Trek culture here, but they look like the owl species,
32:23uh, in that one episode of Lower Decks was the first thing I saw.
32:26They look like a live action of those owl people.
32:30I don't know.
32:31We're going to see like, you know, written by Mike McMahon.
32:32Um, okay.
32:34Well, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm totally interested because I really like Jonathan Groff.
32:38Uh, I'm glad that he's popping up in more and more and more things.
32:42Uh, I really like Indira Varma.
32:44Um, so I'm really interested to see what role she plays, how she connects to the doctor, to Ruby.
32:52Uh, and I want to know why is 14's face sitting there on a hologram in the trailer?
33:00Do you want to be, you know?
33:03There's, I won't, I'm not spoiling anything, but I will say there's a scene that reminds me of the classic,
33:08uh, Davies era of Doctor Who.
33:10Uh, and I think people, when they watch, they will know what I'm referring to.
33:14Um, but it's just one of those things that he, he used to do.
33:17It's just one of the cheeky things of him being a showrunner that we haven't had in Doctor Who that
33:22I just love that he incorporated into the episode.
33:24Okay, well, I am mad with curiosity already, so I can't wait to watch it.
33:30Um, so that, that, that sort of, that sort of wraps up everything so far.
33:35Just a really quick thing, just before we started recording this, uh, the news broke that William Russell had passed
33:43away.
33:43Um, I just wanted to take a second just to, just to remember, I mean, you know, Ian Chesterton, or
33:49Chesterton, uh, that, that's a tongue twister.
33:52Uh, he's right there, you know, an unearthly child with Susan and Barbara.
33:57Um, what, what a life.
34:00Uh, I mean, that man lived.
34:01And of course he was in Doctor Who again, uh, The Power of the Doctor.
34:05So I mean, I think he, I think he must hold the record for longest gap between appearances.
34:11Yeah, I would, I would say so.
34:13It's quite a, quite a stretch.
34:16So, uh, just, um, obviously you were done, but you know, our, our condolences to his family.
34:21Uh, what, what an incredible actor.
34:22And, uh, you know, may he rest in peace.
34:25And kind of thank you for the legacy that he has left within Doctor Who.
34:30Uh, Mick, you're a star.
34:32Everyone, thank you so much for watching along.
34:34Uh, we will be back with the ups and downs for Rogue.
34:36We'll be coming first.
34:37You're awesome.
34:38And until then, keep everything wibblew wobbly.
34:41Bye, Mick.
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