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Homicide New York Season 3 Episode 2
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00:22Hello, my name is Kenneth Kimes.
00:25You don't really know me.
00:27You may think you know me, but you do not.
00:30You may think you know my mother, but you don't.
00:33My son and I are innocent.
00:35There is a huge evil cover-up going on.
00:39The police have made a terrible mistake.
00:47With Satay and Kenneth Kimes, there's something more than a mother and son relationship here.
00:54People who seem to come and go from the Kimes' lives disappeared.
00:59I got a call.
01:00My friend Irene is missing.
01:02We had an 82-year-old socialite who disappeared from her townhouse.
01:07Every day, without exception, I get a call from the police commissioner's office with a simple question.
01:14Where is Irene?
01:18We don't know where she is, but we pray for her.
01:21I pray with my son at 11 o'clock every night.
01:24We pray she's all right, but we don't know where she is.
01:28We're innocent.
01:29And if just given our rights, we will prove it.
01:39Our job is to make sure you can go home and sleep at night.
01:43It's so important for a family to know who murdered their relative.
01:49Compassion for the victims, that's the most important thing.
01:52I've always liked the peek behind the curtain.
01:57You want to find out the truth.
02:01That's what detectives do.
02:03Your instinct is to help people.
02:06In New York City, the NYPD.
02:12This is it.
02:26In 1997, I had 10 years as a New York City cop.
02:29When I got promoted to third grade detective.
02:32And I got transferred from the 34th precinct in Washington Heights to the 19th precinct,
02:37which is the Upper East Side of Manhattan.
02:43It's probably the richest part of New York City.
02:47We would get homicides, but certainly not compared to other precincts.
02:51Within a year of being in that precinct, there was a burglary on Fifth Avenue.
02:55So we go up there, and it's Mary Tyler Moore's apartment.
02:58That's the kind of case that we were working on.
03:02The precinct covers from 59th to 95th Street, from Fifth Avenue all the way to the East River.
03:07It's like a big square, and there's all kinds of high-rises, so it's very densely populated.
03:13When I got transferred, I had culture shock.
03:16I went from the basement to the penthouse in one move.
03:26In 1998, 4th of July weekend, the city was a ghost town, especially the Upper East Side,
03:32because everyone goes to their Hamptons house out in Long Island.
03:36On July 5th, it was myself and two other detectives working.
03:39Everyone else took off.
03:43A call comes in about a missing person by a staff member of an 82-year-old woman named Irene
03:49Silverman.
03:50I'm the junior detective, so your two other guys were like,
03:53Well, kid, this is yours. Here you go.
03:55I was like, Oh, shit.
03:57No one really wants a missing person's case.
04:00They usually, um, someone ran away or went somewhere for the weekend.
04:05They didn't tell anybody.
04:06They usually come back, and the case winds up being closed.
04:10But we had to check on it.
04:13So we went over to the townhouse.
04:17It was on a great block on 65th Street, right off of Madison Avenue.
04:26I was a second-grade detective who grew up in the housing projects in East Harlem.
04:31And the first thing I thought was,
04:33This is probably the first time I walked into a multimillion-dollar building.
04:38It was a beautiful five-story limestone with a penthouse deck on the roof.
04:44I had not been in many, many buildings that took my breath away as to,
04:49Wow, this is really expensive.
04:50This is really, really a woman who's well off.
04:54When we first get to the townhouse,
04:56no one's there except Irene Silverman's housekeeper
04:59and Jeff, who was her personal assistant.
05:02The staff started to tell us.
05:04Last night, she threw a 4th of July party.
05:07She had a lot of guests.
05:08They had a great time.
05:09The next morning, at about 11.45 a.m.,
05:12was the last time any of her staff saw her.
05:15Irene was going to go take a nap.
05:16Later on, at about 4.30, 5 o'clock in the afternoon,
05:21Marta goes and knocks on Irene's door to her bedroom,
05:25and Irene doesn't answer.
05:27She goes into the room and realizes that Irene is not there.
05:33I never forget, it's one of the saddest days of my life.
05:37The phone rang, and it was Jeff.
05:40And from the tone of voice,
05:42I can sense that something very serious
05:44and something wrong is going on.
05:47So all Jeff says, is Irene with you?
05:50I say, no.
05:52So Jeff, the next thing Jeff said,
05:54we were all hoping that Irene is with you,
05:57because you should spend Sunday together.
05:58He said, she has been missing since 12 o'clock.
06:01I said, what happened?
06:02She said, we don't know.
06:04So I say, I'll come over soon.
06:08When I get to the house, the whole staff was there,
06:11everybody, suddenly everybody was at a loss
06:14that the lady of the home is gone.
06:19The staff said Irene would never leave the residence by herself.
06:23She always had someone escort her,
06:24whether it was to the store or wherever,
06:26someone always went with her.
06:28But they also said that this woman is sharp as a tack.
06:33There is no Alzheimer's, there's no dementia, nothing like that.
06:37We searched the whole townhouse.
06:40We started tracking down guests that were at the party,
06:43getting the names so we could interview them also.
06:47The staff told us that her keys were missing.
06:50Not only that, they said that she always kept money on hand
06:53and they said that there was $10,000 missing
06:55and they showed us where she kept the money
06:58and that envelope was gone.
07:01The people who she employed told us
07:04that she treated them just like family.
07:08I remember being impressed with how much they cared for Irene.
07:13They say a lot about the character of Irene Silverman.
07:16To have your worker that loved you and devoted to you
07:20and want to do the best for you.
07:24They tell us that she doesn't have any family.
07:26She was a socialite, so if she liked you,
07:29she automatically took you in as a friend,
07:31would invite you to the parties,
07:32would invite you over to the townhouse,
07:33and that was it.
07:34You were part of her family.
07:36The more I got to know who she was,
07:38the more I really liked her
07:39and the more I'd like to hang out with her.
07:43When she tore a party,
07:44she is the center of her attention,
07:46just like in the movie, the Auntie May movie.
07:50Oh, darling, I'm so glad to end.
07:53I called you yesterday.
07:54Where are you?
07:55Hello, May.
07:55Hello, darling, I'll be with you in just a minute.
07:57She hold court like no one else.
08:00I first met Irene Silverman in 1994.
08:03I was at the peak of my career.
08:07I was the very first Asian designer
08:10that was championed by Anna Wintour.
08:12I went to this very fancy Christmas Eve party.
08:16My friend ran into the kitchen.
08:19She said, the grand dame just arrived.
08:21The grand dame just arrived.
08:23You must meet her.
08:24Everybody wants to meet her.
08:26I was introduced to her.
08:28Even though she's tiny,
08:29she's barely five foot tall,
08:31but she's larger than life.
08:33She's so glamorous, so green,
08:35the way she dressed,
08:36the way she holds herself.
08:39She said, you must come and have tea with me.
08:42And I was there until after midnight.
08:45We had the best time ever,
08:47and she had the best story to tell.
08:50At the age of 17,
08:52she was one of the ballerinas at Radio City.
08:57During one of the performances,
09:00Samuel Silverman was in the audience,
09:02was so smitten with Irene.
09:05After a courtship, they got married.
09:08Irene told me he's in finance,
09:10and then Irene started to live
09:11this very, very glamorous life.
09:16After her husband passed away,
09:19she started to get a little lonely
09:20in this huge mansion.
09:22So to entertain herself,
09:25she rented all the beautiful room
09:27to very wealthy people,
09:28for people who do not want
09:30to stay at the hotel.
09:37The people who she employed
09:39told us that directly to the back,
09:42as you come into the building,
09:44there's a door,
09:44and that door was for an apartment.
09:46On the first floor,
09:48she rented that apartment
09:49to a white male named Manny Guerin.
09:53The staff told us that Irene Silverman
09:55usually did background checks
09:56on her tenants.
09:57However, in this case, she didn't.
10:00A butcher who Irene used,
10:03that was a mutual friend
10:04recommended Irene's townhouse
10:06to Manny Guerin.
10:09On June 14th,
10:11he paid $6,000 for one month
10:14up front in cash.
10:18The staff mentioned that
10:20from the moment he came into the building,
10:23Irene felt that he was not a nice person.
10:27He would often listen to Irene
10:29talking to the staff in the foyer,
10:31and they knew that because
10:33they would see his feet
10:34right by the front door.
10:37We were told by staff that Manny
10:39was also sneaking a woman
10:41into the building named Eva.
10:44They described her as an older woman,
10:46well-dressed.
10:47Eva's a person that Manny claims
10:49that he worked with,
10:50almost like an assistant.
10:53When we go into Irene's office,
10:56there's papers on her desk,
10:57and there's notes that she wrote
10:59about the tenant in 1B.
11:01And some of the notes said
11:02that he was very suspicious,
11:04she didn't trust him,
11:04and she wanted him out.
11:06She actually drew, like,
11:08a little sketch of him
11:09and a description of his height.
11:13She wrote,
11:13he looks like jail.
11:15I remember the very first day
11:17Manny moved into the rental space.
11:21I was having lunch with Irene
11:23at the basement,
11:25and then we hear the elevator door open.
11:29Immediately, Irene sent Martha,
11:31who's the maid,
11:32to the elevator and said,
11:33please tell Manny, the tenant,
11:35this is a private area.
11:37No tenants are allowed in this area.
11:41When Martha finally came back
11:43to the dining table,
11:44I never forget,
11:45Irene told me,
11:46you know what,
11:46I'm very suspicious of this guy.
11:50I said, what, Irene,
11:52why are you taking in someone
11:53that you suspected?
11:55She said,
11:56I trusted my butcher,
11:58so I did not ask
12:00for a background check,
12:01and I agreed to rent them
12:03the apartment for a month.
12:07When we find out
12:08about the guy in 1B,
12:10that's when I was like,
12:11oh, this is not good.
12:12So all these flags are going up,
12:14you know,
12:15saying, hey,
12:15this guy's a shithead.
12:17We do a physical check
12:19of the apartment
12:19that Manny rented
12:21to make sure
12:21that she was not in there
12:23laying wounded
12:24or maybe even dead.
12:27The apartment was dimly lit.
12:30It wasn't a mess,
12:31but it wasn't tidy.
12:32The bed was unmade.
12:34There was boxes of food
12:36on the counter.
12:38In the garbage can
12:39in the apartment,
12:40there was a wad of duct tape.
12:43Also recovered was
12:44a spool of rope or string.
12:47One of the staff members
12:49notices that a comforter
12:50from the room is missing,
12:52and we find
12:53an empty shower curtain box
12:55with just the rings in it.
12:58Why would you need
12:59a shower curtain
13:00in an apartment
13:01with glass lighting doors?
13:03You don't need
13:04a shower curtain.
13:05It was at that point
13:06that we were thinking
13:06we might have an abduction
13:07of some kind.
13:16We bring our staff
13:17back to the precinct
13:19to do a sketch
13:20of Manny Guerin,
13:21the person in 1B
13:23that was acting suspicious.
13:25I was assigned
13:26to stay in the townhouse
13:28that night.
13:29That was my
13:30oh shit moment.
13:31I'm a junior detective.
13:33This is my ball of wax.
13:34We thought maybe
13:35there'd be a knock
13:36at the door of a witness.
13:37Maybe Irene would
13:38walk through the door.
13:39Maybe there'd be
13:40a phone call.
13:41Could have been anything.
13:42The only one
13:43who was with me
13:43was George Irene's dog.
13:51In July of 1998,
13:52I had the rank
13:54of deputy inspector,
13:55and I was also in charge
13:56of Manhattan North
13:58Detective Operations,
13:59which oversaw
14:00the 12 precincts
14:02in Manhattan North.
14:04From 59th Street
14:05up to the tip
14:06of Manhattan,
14:08we have what we call
14:09special category
14:10missing persons.
14:12Irene fit at least
14:14two of them.
14:15One was that she was
14:1782 years old
14:19at the time,
14:20and the second was
14:21she seems to have
14:22disappeared involuntarily,
14:24and something drastic
14:25has happened to her.
14:27Special category
14:28missing person
14:29prompts a temporary
14:31headquarters to be
14:32established.
14:33I get a phone call
14:34from Inspector Resnick
14:35saying,
14:36Waz, you're going to
14:37have to go over
14:37the 19th precinct
14:38today with your team.
14:40Joe wanted to have
14:41the best guys
14:42or the guys that
14:44were attention
14:44to detail guys.
14:46Joe Resnick
14:47is a tough boss
14:48to work for,
14:48I'm not going to lie.
14:49He's a no-nonsense
14:50kind of guy,
14:51but if I had a relative
14:53that was missing
14:54or murdered,
14:54I'd want him
14:55running this investigation.
15:00We immediately
15:01had cards made up
15:03with Irene Silverman's
15:05picture on it.
15:14Detectives would
15:14literally stand out
15:15on the corner
15:16and hand out flyers
15:17and ask people
15:18if they saw
15:19anything strange.
15:20Now the press
15:20gets a hold of it
15:21and that's it.
15:22It just explodes.
15:23The 82-year-old woman
15:24banished from her mansion.
15:26Silverman was last
15:27seen alive July 5th.
15:28We have an elderly
15:29female who has
15:31disappeared very
15:32mysteriously.
15:33We have an occupant
15:34of an apartment
15:36who she rented to
15:37in less than
15:38three weeks ago
15:39who has also
15:39disappeared mysteriously.
15:42We also mentioned
15:43that we are looking
15:43for the person
15:44in the composite sketch
15:46known as
15:47Manny Guerin.
15:49We are looking
15:49for him in connection
15:50with Ms. Silverman's
15:51disappearance.
15:57The day after
15:58this press conference,
16:00the 19 Squad
16:01gets a call
16:02from an NYPD detective
16:04who's part of a
16:06joint fugitive task force
16:08where FBI agents
16:10and NYPD detectives
16:11are assigned
16:12to locate fugitives
16:14wanted not only
16:15in New York
16:16but from around
16:17the country.
16:19He said that on
16:20July 5th,
16:21when Irene Silverman
16:23was reported missing,
16:25he had arrested
16:26two people,
16:27a mother and a son,
16:28at about 55th Street
16:30and 6th Avenue
16:31on a warrant
16:32that they had
16:33from Utah
16:33for buying a car
16:36with a stolen check
16:37that they drove
16:38to New York City.
16:41The detective
16:42from the
16:42Preserve Task Force
16:44told us that
16:45they both had
16:47on their possession
16:48identification
16:49that belonged
16:50to Irene Silverman.
16:51They were identified
16:53as Kenny Kimes
16:55and his mother,
16:56Sante Kimes.
16:58In her pocketbook
17:00was $10,000 in cash.
17:02One question
17:03about why she had
17:04$10,000 in cash
17:05she said she'd need
17:06a lot of cash
17:07to visit New York
17:08which didn't make
17:09any sense.
17:10I don't know
17:11who carries
17:12$10,000 cash
17:13in their pocketbook.
17:15I have a gun
17:16and I wouldn't
17:16go to New York
17:17with $10,000 cash
17:19in my pocket
17:20but also there's
17:21a ring of keys
17:21with red nail polish
17:23which were Irene's.
17:25I thought we were
17:26looking for Manny Guerin
17:28but when I heard
17:29about that
17:30I said,
17:31are you fucking kidding me?
17:34With this new information
17:36we grab a car
17:37and we go down
17:38to Manhattan Central
17:39Booking
17:39to interview Kenny.
17:42When I first walked in
17:44I thought,
17:45holy shit.
17:47Kenny matched
17:48the sketch
17:49of Manny Guerin
17:51pretty dead on.
17:55I was convinced
17:56we had Manny Guerin
17:57for sure.
17:59We asked him
18:01why do you have
18:01Irene's ID?
18:03Do you know Irene?
18:04Yes, I know her.
18:07I think my mother
18:08was friends with her.
18:10We said,
18:11Kenny,
18:12think of Irene.
18:13She could be alive
18:14somewhere,
18:15maybe she's missing,
18:16maybe you could help
18:16us find her.
18:17Why don't you talk to us?
18:18What if that was your mother?
18:19How would you feel?
18:21There was a glimmer
18:22of light.
18:23There were tears
18:24in his eyes,
18:25I remember it.
18:27And I thought
18:28that he would
18:29start talking to us
18:31and he was going
18:31to fall on the sword.
18:33But seconds later,
18:35it's like a switch
18:36went off inside of him.
18:39He just became
18:40very stoic,
18:41turned to stone
18:42and asked for an attorney.
18:44When I was leaving,
18:46I was 100% convinced
18:48that he had a big part
18:49of Irene's disappearance.
18:53His mother,
18:54Sante Kimes,
18:55was at the FBI building
18:56downtown waiting
18:57to be arraigned
18:58for the stolen car case.
19:00And I was hoping
19:01that the detectives
19:02who were interviewing her
19:03were having more success
19:05than we were.
19:06But she requested
19:08an attorney
19:09and the interview
19:10was shut down.
19:17So we do a background
19:18check on them,
19:19see what they were arrested
19:21for in the past.
19:22We saw that Kenny
19:24never had any major
19:25run-ins with the law.
19:27Then we looked at Sante
19:28and you couldn't believe
19:30the horrific things
19:31that they see.
19:33At one point,
19:34I was assigned
19:36the story
19:36of what happened here
19:39to Irene Silverman
19:40in New York.
19:41And I found out
19:42that Sante Kimes
19:44was orphaned
19:45when she was younger.
19:46and she sort of bounced around
19:47from house to house,
19:49whether it was
19:50an orphanage
19:51or a friend of a friend.
19:53She was very poor.
19:55She met
19:56Kenneth Kimes, Sr.
19:58In 1970,
20:00he was in the construction business
20:03and owned a chain of motels.
20:05They had houses
20:07in the Bahamas,
20:09oceanfront property
20:10in Honolulu,
20:12a house in Las Vegas.
20:15They were living the high life.
20:19A couple of years
20:20after they met each other,
20:22she and her husband
20:23had Kenneth Kimes, Jr.
20:27Sante Kimes definitely
20:29considered Kenneth
20:30her little prince,
20:32but Sante would control
20:33everything that Kenneth did
20:35to the point
20:36where she decided
20:36to homeschool him,
20:37not send him to school.
20:40Kenny did what Mommy said.
20:42He, he,
20:43Mommy said to jump,
20:45he jumped.
20:46She knew how to manipulate
20:48things to her needs.
20:51Sante was a con artist.
20:53Don't take me
20:54when I'm cat.
20:55Like, you turn it.
20:56She had, like,
20:57I think 11 different aliases
20:59listed on her arrest histories,
21:03which included insurance fraud,
21:06some larcenies.
21:08Sante Kimes, I think,
21:10loved danger.
21:11She liked to see
21:13how much she could get away with.
21:16She claimed that her husband
21:18was an ambassador
21:20and somehow got invited
21:23to a reception
21:25being thrown for Gerald Ford.
21:27There's a picture of her
21:29and Kenneth Kimes
21:31shaking President Ford's hand.
21:33To this day,
21:35no one knows
21:35how she got through
21:37Secret Service.
21:38She had a way
21:39of entering a room
21:41and everybody would look over
21:43and say,
21:44oh, look how she's dressed.
21:46Oh, my God,
21:47look at her jewelry.
21:48She must belong here.
21:51Another,
21:51one of the things
21:52that stood out
21:53was a slavery charge
21:55back in 1985.
21:58Sante Kimes
21:59would hire help
22:00from Mexico
22:01to clean her big homes.
22:04She would
22:04treat them
22:06really badly.
22:09She would lock
22:10maids
22:11in their rooms.
22:13One of them subsequently
22:14testified at that trial
22:16that she was burned
22:18by an iron.
22:21They gave her the name
22:23The Dragon Lady.
22:25It's a different crazy
22:27is what it is.
22:28She's a psychopath.
22:30Sante was sentenced
22:31to five years in prison.
22:34However,
22:35her husband
22:36was never prosecuted
22:38for that case.
22:39She served
22:40three years
22:41out of a five-year term.
22:45Then,
22:46Kenneth Kimes Sr.
22:48died in 1994
22:49of a brain aneurysm.
22:53And when he died,
22:55this threw Sante's life
22:57in a tailspin.
22:58She was like,
23:00how am I going
23:00to continue my lifestyle?
23:02As long as Sante
23:04ended up on top,
23:05that's all she cared about.
23:08After his fault,
23:09his death,
23:10mother and son
23:11were hooked
23:12hip to hip.
23:14Whatever ventures
23:14they got involved with,
23:15they did it together.
23:18Befriending the Kimes
23:19was a very dangerous proposition.
23:23People they knew
23:24seemed to disappear
23:26out of the blue.
23:29One of them
23:29was David Kasdan.
23:31David Kasdan
23:32was an associate
23:34of Sante and Kenneth Kimes,
23:35a business partner
23:36in some sense.
23:38She took out
23:39a fraudulent loan
23:40against David Kasdan's home.
23:42And he gets,
23:42I believe it was a coupon book
23:44for payments
23:44on a $250,000,
23:46$300,000 loan
23:47that he was
23:48totally unaware of.
23:50And he went
23:51to the authorities.
23:53Shortly after that,
23:55they found Kasdan's body
23:56in a dumpster
23:57by LAX airport.
24:00But at that point,
24:02the LAPD
24:03didn't have enough
24:05to arrest Sante
24:06and Kenneth Kimes
24:07for the murder
24:07of David Kasdan.
24:09And at that point,
24:11Sante and Kenny
24:12drove all the way
24:13across country
24:13in the stolen car
24:15so they could rent
24:16the apartment
24:17in Irene's townhouse.
24:22There were discussions
24:24about whether
24:25they should be extradited
24:26to LA
24:26to face the David Kasdan murder
24:29or leave him here
24:31in New York.
24:31Well, I got news for you.
24:33If someone is killed
24:34here in New York City,
24:35the case should stay
24:36here in New York City
24:37until it's totally resolved.
24:39And trust me,
24:40there was just
24:41a voluminous amount
24:42of work
24:43that had to be
24:44accomplished yet.
24:48News Channel 4
24:49took these
24:49exclusive pictures
24:50of the canine
24:52police dog unit
24:53and the crime scene
24:54technicians going
24:55to the basement garage
24:56where the car
24:57Kenneth Kimes drove
24:58was being held.
24:59The search warrant
25:00was conducted
25:01on the Green Lincoln
25:02town car.
25:04We open up the trunk.
25:06Nothing,
25:07just garbage.
25:08Everything is piled
25:10in the back seat
25:10of the car.
25:11And there was
25:12a lot of shit, man.
25:14It took eight hours
25:15to go through that car.
25:17We recovered a box
25:19from a taser gun.
25:20We found a clear liquid
25:21that was later identified
25:23as a knockout drug
25:24like a roofie.
25:25We found Irene Silverman's
25:27social security card
25:28with some other papers
25:29that had Irene's name on it.
25:31We recovered all kinds
25:32of wigs,
25:33eavesdropping equipment.
25:35Sitting in the car
25:36were 15 notebooks
25:38that had notes
25:39meticulously detailing
25:42Irene's movements.
25:44You know,
25:45when you look at
25:45the big picture
25:46and what's going on here,
25:47those are pretty
25:47telling things.
25:50Also in those notebooks
25:51was how to take possession
25:53of Irene's house.
25:55Get notary.
25:56Get title.
25:57Get deed.
25:59Also recovered
26:00from the car
26:01was a microcassette
26:02with some cassette tapes.
26:04And we listened to them.
26:08And one of them
26:10had Sante posing
26:12as a person
26:13calling Irene
26:15saying that she won a trip
26:17to go to Las Vegas
26:18to stay at Circus Circus.
26:22Ready to go.
26:24Okay.
26:25I have a wonderful surprise
26:27for you.
26:28So,
26:29you have won a free trip.
26:32All circus,
26:33all home,
26:34hotel,
26:35the whole gist
26:36of the call
26:37was to try
26:37to get
26:38Irene Silverman
26:39to divulge
26:40over the phone
26:41her Social Security number.
26:43So,
26:44are you sitting down?
26:45I am.
26:45I'm sitting down.
26:47I'm also wondering
26:48what the process is.
26:50No cancer.
26:51How about Social Security?
26:54She was trying
26:54to get information
26:55so she could use
26:56on the deeds
26:57and the forged papers
26:58and stuff.
26:59Mm-hmm.
27:06She tried every which way
27:08to get that number
27:09out of Irene
27:10and Irene
27:11was not fucking
27:12having it, man.
27:26with all the information
27:27that we had recovered,
27:29we weren't dealing
27:30with a missing person.
27:32We knew we were looking
27:33for a homicide victim.
27:36I have a great reader
27:38or fortune teller
27:39or whatever you call.
27:41So as soon as I sat down,
27:42he looked at me
27:43and said,
27:43I'm so sorry
27:44for your loss.
27:47And I said,
27:48your great friend
27:48is no longer with us.
27:53Immense sadness
27:54and emotion
27:55came immediately then.
27:58and also then
27:59I immediately went
28:00to deny it.
28:01I said,
28:01maybe he's wrong.
28:02I hope this time
28:03he's wrong.
28:06Knowing that this
28:07is going to be
28:07a homicide case,
28:08we still felt
28:10we needed a body
28:11to put these people away.
28:12We knew they did it.
28:13But without a body,
28:14there was a good chance
28:16that they might get off.
28:17Personally, to me,
28:18I was pissed off.
28:19I wanted to go back
28:20and punch Kenny
28:22in the face
28:22and get the information
28:23out of him.
28:29There was a tip line
28:31that was put out
28:32for a person to call
28:33with information
28:33as to the sightings
28:35of the green Lincoln town car.
28:37We were following up
28:39on every lead
28:41that we got.
28:42We searched the Meadowlands
28:44out in Jersey.
28:46Meadowlands is no picnic.
28:47It's a swampy,
28:48tall grass area.
28:50It sucks.
28:51It sucks.
28:52It's just a smelly,
28:54dirty place to search.
28:56But perfect to dump a body.
28:59We'd find all kinds of garbage,
29:01all kinds of discarded
29:02containers, luggage,
29:04and what I call
29:05Coney Island whitefish,
29:06meaning used condoms,
29:08used tampons.
29:10We were desperate
29:11to find Irene Silverman's body.
29:14Every tip that came in
29:15on this case,
29:15or any case,
29:16has to be investigated.
29:18As crazy as it may sound,
29:20one particular day,
29:22I recall being in the office.
29:24Someone's come to our office
29:25with a dead chicken.
29:29What brought my attention
29:30to it was the fucking smell.
29:32It reeked,
29:33and it permeated the office.
29:35We were all told,
29:37inside the anus
29:38of the dead chicken,
29:39there's a note,
29:40and in that note,
29:41it says where
29:43Irene Silverman's body is.
29:45I says,
29:46get the fuck out of here.
29:48And I made them
29:49get her out of the office.
29:53But they slowly
29:54took the chicken and her
29:55down to 126th Street,
29:57Amsterdam Avenue,
29:58where there was
29:59a chicken poultry farm,
30:01factory,
30:01whatever you want to call it.
30:02And they examined the chicken.
30:05As far as that chicken
30:06was concerned,
30:07there was no note
30:08in the chicken's ass.
30:13It was one of the
30:15lighter moments
30:16that we had
30:17during this investigation,
30:18but that's how much
30:19pressure we were under.
30:21Each and every lead
30:22that came in
30:22had to be answered.
30:28The Kimes were still
30:29in jail for the stolen car,
30:30and we were listening
30:32to their phone calls,
30:33and we intercepted
30:35a call from Sante Kimes,
30:37talking to a private
30:38investigator hired
30:40by the defense.
30:41She was advising him
30:43to go to the Plaza Hotel
30:45to retrieve a bag.
30:48With that,
30:49myself and another detective
30:51got into a car,
30:53and rode lights
30:55and signs
30:55down to the Plaza Hotel.
30:59And his retired
31:00detective captain
31:01was the head
31:01of security there.
31:03He said,
31:04private investigator
31:05just came in
31:06and got the bag,
31:06gave us his name.
31:08We have another detective
31:10looking up his
31:11private investigator's license.
31:13The PI's office
31:15was down by City Hall,
31:16so we went over there.
31:18First, he denied
31:19picking up the bag,
31:21and then we told him,
31:22listen,
31:23we know that you went
31:24and picked up the bag.
31:26How do you think
31:27we got to your office?
31:29Out of the blue?
31:31So then he decided
31:32to surrender the bag.
31:34That was probably
31:35one of the biggest breaks
31:36in the case that we got.
31:39In that bag,
31:40we found a .22 caliber handgun,
31:43a power of attorney with Irene Silverman's signature on it.
31:51And we recovered a copy of the deed
31:54signed by Irene Silverman.
31:57What was noted on the deed
31:59was that, in fact,
32:00the house was being sold
32:01to the Atlantis Group Incorporated,
32:04which we subsequently learned
32:06was a shell company
32:08created by Sante Kimes.
32:11We had handwriting analysis done on them,
32:15and sure enough,
32:17it came back
32:18that those documents
32:19were forged.
32:21We can see that it was notarized,
32:24signed,
32:24and dated
32:25by a specific notary.
32:29Once the notary was located,
32:32she was interviewed.
32:33The notary states
32:34that she came
32:34to Irene Silverman's building.
32:37She found herself
32:38in a room
32:39where it's dimly lit,
32:40it was dark.
32:42Sante Kimes
32:43was dressed up as Irene
32:44in a bed,
32:48you know,
32:49with a red wig on
32:50and some to cover in her face.
32:52The covers pulled up,
32:53you know,
32:54just like Little Red Riding Hood.
32:56She had some ID,
32:58which was forged ID
33:00or whatever,
33:00and she notarized it,
33:02and that was it.
33:06The notary was asked
33:07to view a lineup
33:08of Sante and Kenny Kimes
33:11at the district attorney's office.
33:13And I remember sitting
33:15with Sante Kimes,
33:16guarding her
33:17before the lineup.
33:19She and I
33:19were the only ones
33:20in the room.
33:21Knowing that she's
33:22a con artist,
33:23I just decided
33:24to not drop my guard
33:25and not allow her
33:26to get me into
33:27any type of conversation.
33:29Two minutes later,
33:31I'm telling her,
33:31yeah, I'm separated.
33:32I live in Yonkers.
33:33My kids are 10 and 12.
33:34years old.
33:35I should have known better
33:37than to let her
33:38engage with me.
33:40But she had
33:41the ability
33:42to just
33:43make you relax,
33:45make you relax
33:46to a point
33:46where you can just
33:47answer any and all
33:49questions that she asked.
33:50And that's how
33:51she got information
33:52from people
33:53to go forward
33:56with some sort of scam
33:57or fraud
33:57that she was planning
33:58to do.
34:01The note we
34:02picked Sante
34:03right out of the lineup,
34:04no problem at all.
34:11Those forged documents
34:13became critical
34:14to the case
34:15because it was the motive.
34:18It painted a very
34:20persuasive picture
34:21that the Kymes'
34:23were creating
34:25a fraudulent transaction
34:26to make it look like
34:28Irene Silverman
34:29was turning over
34:30the townhouse to them.
34:32Although we didn't have
34:33a body,
34:34we were convinced
34:34that we could go
34:35forward with charging
34:37them with homicide.
34:41Five months
34:42after Irene
34:43went missing
34:43in December of 1998,
34:45Sante and Kenneth Kymes
34:46were finally indicted
34:47for murder
34:48in the second degree.
34:49They were indicted
34:49for burglary.
34:50They were indicted
34:51for robbery.
34:51They were indicted
34:52for eavesdropping.
34:53There were 84 counts
34:54of charges against them.
34:56I mean,
34:57that's a hell of a lot
34:58of counts.
34:58From her jail cell,
35:00Kymes claims
35:01she's innocent.
35:02Please help.
35:03I am pleading
35:04for our constitutional rights
35:06to a fair judge,
35:07trial,
35:08and a venue
35:09so that my wonderful
35:10young son's innocence
35:12can be proven
35:13to everyone.
35:15What was strange
35:16is how many times
35:18Sante and Kenny Kymes
35:20got to the media
35:21while waiting
35:22for their trial.
35:25My son and I
35:26are innocent.
35:28There is a huge
35:29evil cover-up
35:30going on.
35:31The police have made
35:33a terrible mistake.
35:34You have been led
35:35to think certain things.
35:38about the both of us
35:39which are completely
35:40untrue.
35:42We are innocent.
35:43It was really
35:44some act.
35:47They were portrayed
35:48as being
35:51prosecuted
35:51for no good reason.
35:53Look at my son.
35:54Does he look like
35:55a killer to you?
35:5660 Minutes
35:58invited the Kymes
36:00to talk
36:00about what had happened.
36:02It certainly didn't appear
36:04to be a mother-son relationship.
36:06They're holding hands
36:07and Kenny, you know,
36:09complimenting his mother's looks.
36:11I think she's
36:11a beautiful person
36:13spiritually
36:13and intellectually
36:14and physically.
36:17It was just
36:18the strangest,
36:19strangest thing
36:20to see
36:20of a mother and son
36:21who are adults.
36:22There was speculation
36:24that there was
36:25an incestuous
36:26relationship
36:26going on.
36:27I personally
36:29don't believe
36:30that.
36:31My belief
36:33is that
36:34she was in control
36:36of every aspect
36:37of his life.
36:39You're okay.
36:41She groomed Kenny
36:43to be a killer.
36:48The case goes
36:49to trial
36:50in January
36:51of 2000,
36:53about a year
36:54and a half
36:54after Irene's
36:55disappearance.
36:57The main
36:58defense strategy
36:59was,
37:00how can you
37:00possibly convict
37:02if there's no body?
37:03I'm not sure
37:04there is
37:05another defense,
37:07but we were able
37:08to put on
37:09a four-month trial
37:10and, uh,
37:12it went in
37:12quite smoothly.
37:13Both Sante
37:15and Kenny
37:15Kind were found
37:16guilty
37:17on every
37:18single charge.
37:21Each one of them
37:22were going to get
37:22a minimum
37:23of 125 years
37:24to life.
37:27Sante honestly
37:28thought she was
37:29smarter than
37:29everyone else.
37:30These schemes
37:31were feeding her
37:32and she needed it
37:33like Dracula
37:33needs blood.
37:35And I'll say
37:36this,
37:36in their possession
37:38was a list
37:39of 16
37:40other New Yorkers
37:42targeted by
37:43the Kimes.
37:44We checked
37:45with all them
37:45to make sure
37:46that they were
37:46okay.
37:50In October
37:51of 2000,
37:53when Sante
37:54and Kenny
37:55were awaiting
37:57extradition
37:57to the state
37:58of California
37:59where they faced
37:59the murder trial
38:00of David Kasdan,
38:02I was assigned
38:03to produce
38:04a documentary
38:04for Court TV.
38:06Kenny agreed,
38:07ultimately,
38:08to do an interview
38:09with me on camera.
38:12He walked in
38:13and he looked scary.
38:15He had
38:15the darkest,
38:17blackest eyes
38:18that just seared
38:20right through me.
38:24Cameraman,
38:25audio person,
38:26start rolling.
38:27Within 40 minutes,
38:29he had asked me
38:29for three breaks.
38:31Could, um,
38:31if I may ask,
38:33could we take a break
38:34in maybe five
38:34or ten minutes?
38:35The last break,
38:36he asked,
38:37would you mind
38:38getting me
38:39something to eat?
38:40So I went
38:42to the vending machines.
38:44I reach out
38:45to give him
38:46these items.
38:48And before I know it,
38:49he's around my back
38:51with his right arm
38:52across my neck.
38:55And he said to me,
38:57this is a hostage situation.
39:00Sirens are going off.
39:03Kenny notices
39:04that the cameraman
39:05has the camera
39:06still rolling.
39:07And he said,
39:08stop the fucking camera.
39:10Give me back.
39:16Being that close
39:17to him
39:18was disgusting.
39:20I could feel his heart
39:22pounding against my back.
39:25Um,
39:29I, uh,
39:31could feel his sweat.
39:34I remember him
39:36flicking this pen.
39:39And right away,
39:40I'm thinking,
39:41he's going to stab me
39:41with this pen.
39:43The prison officials
39:45that had come into the room
39:46were saying,
39:48Kenneth, calm down.
39:50You're not going
39:51to accomplish anything
39:52by doing this.
39:53I said to him,
39:55why are you doing this?
39:57And right away,
39:57he said,
39:58my mother is old.
40:00She cannot handle
40:01another trial.
40:02I want my mother
40:05and I
40:06to be extradited
40:07to Canada.
40:10It was really terrifying.
40:15Five long hours
40:16had gone by
40:17and I said to him,
40:20Kenneth,
40:20you know,
40:22do you know how to pray?
40:24Let's pray together.
40:25And he said,
40:26yes, I do.
40:27And, like,
40:28this calmness
40:29came across his face.
40:31After we prayed together,
40:34a hostage negotiator
40:35said to Kenny,
40:36Kenny,
40:37it's been long enough.
40:38He said,
40:39this is my business card.
40:41Let me help you.
40:43Kenny went to grab it,
40:45which means
40:45he let me go.
40:47And that was my opportunity
40:49to just storm
40:50out of that room.
40:52There was at least
40:53a half dozen guys in there.
40:55They jumped him
40:57and I didn't look back.
40:58I just kept on going.
41:01But I was just, um,
41:04so grateful
41:05to be alive.
41:13Kenneth Kimes
41:14helped his mother
41:14kill a wealthy widow.
41:16Now he's admitting
41:16to another murder.
41:17He surprised a courtroom
41:19in Los Angeles
41:20by pleading guilty
41:21to killing a businessman,
41:22David Kasdan.
41:23He made a cooperation agreement
41:26with the L.A. County
41:28District Attorney's Office
41:29in which he testified
41:31against his mother.
41:33He confessed
41:34to the murder
41:36of David Kasdan
41:39and the murder
41:40of Irene Silverman
41:42in exchange for
41:44a sentence
41:45that did not include
41:46the death penalty
41:48for himself
41:49and his mother.
41:55Kenny said that
41:57Irene Silverman
41:58knocked on his door,
42:00he pulled her
42:01into the apartment,
42:02he stun-gunned her,
42:04she dropped to the floor,
42:06he choked her to death,
42:09then took a shower curtain,
42:10wrapped her up,
42:11taped her up
42:12with the duct tape,
42:14put her in a duffel bag,
42:17put her in the trunk
42:18of his car,
42:20drove downtown
42:21through the Lincoln Tunnel,
42:23he goes,
42:24I saw a dumpster,
42:25I put her body
42:26in the dumpster
42:26and that was it.
42:33Justice was served,
42:35but we didn't have
42:36Irene's body.
42:38You know,
42:39it'll haunt me
42:40to my death
42:41that a great woman
42:43like that
42:44who actually contributed
42:45something to society
42:47doesn't even have closure,
42:49you know,
42:49in her life
42:50where her body
42:51was never laid to rest.
42:54It's still an open case
42:56in my mind.
42:59I'm hoping one day
43:00her remains are found
43:02and there's DNA
43:02and I get a phone call
43:04saying,
43:05hey,
43:05we found Irene.
43:07Do I think
43:07that's going to happen?
43:08No, I don't.
43:09But do I hope
43:10it happens?
43:11100%.
43:11I'd love to get
43:12that phone call.
43:13I really would.
43:17It took at least
43:1810 years
43:19for me to come to term
43:21that someone
43:22really, really
43:23killed her.
43:29I had that fantasy
43:31that they
43:32kidnapped her
43:33somewhere
43:33and put her
43:34away somewhere
43:35a little town
43:36somewhere
43:36maybe she'll
43:37reappear.
43:39But sadly,
43:40last few years
43:41I came to term.
43:43I came to term
43:45that
43:46she's no longer
43:47with us
43:47but she's smiling
43:49down at me
43:50every day.
43:52Every time I cross
43:5565th Street
43:56I always
43:56look up to
43:57a beautiful home.
44:00I say a quiet
44:01hello to her
44:05and tell her
44:06quietly that
44:07I miss her.
44:22I get a call
44:24that a guest
44:25is experiencing
44:26a heavy leak
44:27of water
44:28into their room.
44:30Solo House
44:31is a very
44:32exclusive
44:32high-end club
44:34and we have a young
44:35woman dead
44:36in the bathtub.
44:37The identity
44:38of the victim
44:39was Sylvie Cachet.
44:40Female,
44:4133 years old.
44:43She was a fashion
44:44designer,
44:45swimsuit designer.
44:47She was just
44:48the perfect member
44:49to be a part
44:50of Solo House.
44:51She checked in
44:52with her boyfriend
44:53and he's no longer
44:55there.
44:55So yeah,
44:57it is suspicious.
44:58And then
44:59we find
45:00the fuck
45:01you email.
45:02A picture
45:03is starting
45:03to emerge.
45:05There are
45:06situations
45:07you hope
45:07to never be in.
45:09What happened
45:10in that room?
45:10It's not something
45:11you can just
45:12forget about.
45:41out.
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