00:00The President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology, you'll co-chair alongside Mr. Kratios.
00:07I think, like, there's a history behind PCAST.
00:10There's been councils in prior administrations, but I think there's some value, David,
00:15if you could just explain what the council will do day to day, what its remit is.
00:21Sure. Thank you, Ed.
00:23So PCAST is the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology.
00:27It's a group that's been around since the presidency of George Herbert Walker Bush.
00:32I think that was around 1990.
00:33So it's been around for over 30 years.
00:36And the version of it that was created by Bush 41 was actually building on a group that was first
00:43established by FDR.
00:45So this Council of Advisors has been around for a long time.
00:48And the idea is to gather some of the best and brightest minds in the country on cutting-edge technologies
00:54to make recommendations to the President of the White House on issues that obviously can have a great impact on
01:01the American economy
01:02and our security and on innovation policy.
01:06And so we're pleased to announce this group.
01:09The President just named the first 15 people.
01:13We can have up to 24.
01:16And these are, I think, some of the biggest luminaries and stars in the world of science and technology.
01:21And this group will meet periodically to, again, make recommendations to the President of the White House.
01:28Jensen Wang, Lisa Su, Mark Zuckerberg, Michael Dell, who I think also served on the PCAST 2001 under George W.
01:37Bush
01:37and so has some experience of that.
01:40It's an initial list, as you say, but how was it composed?
01:43Why those 15 specifically?
01:45What is it that the President and you and Mr. Kratz just believe they bring in the first instance?
01:51Well, first of all, I think there's a variety of technological expertise.
01:55You have people there who are in the world of software.
01:58Others are in the world of chips or advanced semiconductors.
02:01We have folks who have won Nobel Prizes for physics, who've done breakthroughs in quantum computing or fusion or small
02:09modular reactors.
02:11So there's actually a range of skills there.
02:14I'd say the other point that's noteworthy is that these people are builders.
02:18They're doers.
02:19They're people who have actually not just done research or academia, but they've actually built companies, in a lot of
02:27cases, around their inventions.
02:29And so I think there's a strong emphasis on what you might call applied experience here.
02:34I would say that of the different PCASTs that have been created, this one, I think you'd have to say,
02:39has the most star power of any group like this that's been created.
02:44That, I think, is the core question.
02:47What is the authority that this PCAST has?
02:50How do the discussions and actions of that council translate into actual policy?
02:57And if that were to be the case at all?
03:01Well, I think that the way that PCAST usually works, it's a federal advisory committee, and we engage in studies
03:07and we gather evidence, then we make recommendations.
03:11And then those studies eventually can turn into policy.
03:15That's basically the purpose of it, is to provide the White House with high-quality advice from some of the
03:19best minds in these areas of cutting-edge science and technology.
03:24So, again, you know, we'll look at things like AI.
03:27Obviously, this is a huge issue right now.
03:29The impact it's going to have on our economy, on jobs, on national security.
03:34I think you can expect us to make some recommendations in those areas.
03:38We'll want to push forward the president's AI framework that was already released just last week.
03:43So, you'll see, I think, a lot of activity around that.
03:46But it will also be other areas as well.
03:48Like I said, advanced semiconductors, quantum computing, nuclear power.
03:53These will all be areas that you can expect PCAST to look at.
03:57David, what does this mean for you day to day?
03:59Is PCAST now your sort of main focus in how you're serving the country in this administration?
04:06Yes, I mean, I had a, in the first year of the Trump administration, I had a role as a
04:10SGE that was, I had 130 days.
04:13We've now used up that time.
04:15And I think moving forward as co-chair of PCAST, I can now make recommendations on not just AI, but
04:21an expanded range of technology topics.
04:24So, yes, this is how I'll be involved moving forward.
04:27You mentioned some of the action that's already taken place from this administration in the context of AI.
04:34Does PCAST have a mandate to coordinate with different agencies and existing arms of government?
04:41Or is it just advice to the president?
04:46It's intended to be advice to the president and to the White House, to the executive office of the president.
04:51So, yeah, we're going to, again, study issues, make recommendations.
04:54And that's the main goal of it is advice.
04:56It's, you know, the president gets advice from so many different people.
04:59He already talks to a lot of these folks, including on this PCAST.
05:02But what this group allows us to do is study issues together as a group and then make official recommendations
05:08and issue studies and reports.
05:11And I think you'll see that's what you'll see coming out of this PCAST as it was in previous previous
05:16ones.
05:17David, we've both just returned from D.C. and the Hill and Valley Forum.
05:22And I'm trying to draw a conclusion of everything that was discussed there.
05:27I think one thing that came up a lot was the need for just more codified policy around AI.
05:35You know, you also were a co-host of the Winning the AI Race Summit, right?
05:39And the initial focus of the administration on cutting red tape, expediting permitting, a lot of infrastructure focus.
05:47What is the AI policy of this White House right now and where do you see it going?
05:52Well, Ed, you're right.
05:54The president gave a major speech last year in July, which basically spelled out the pillars of his AI policy.
06:00It was pro-innovation, pro-infrastructure, pro-energy and pro-export.
06:05Since then, just like I said last week, we released a national AI framework.
06:09And the idea is to create one rulebook for AI in the U.S.
06:13The problem that we're seeing right now is that you've got 50 different states regulating this in 50 different ways.
06:20And it's creating a patchwork of regulation that's difficult for our innovators to comply with.
06:24So what the president has called for is one rulebook.
06:26What we did is, and I work with Michael Kratzios at OSTP and other folks at the White House, we
06:32looked at all the different things that the states were doing and we tried to find some common denominators.
06:36And then we published that in a set of principles that we're calling the National AI Framework.
06:41And we're calling on Congress to act on that framework.
06:44The framework contains things like child safety.
06:46That's a very salient issue right now is how do you protect kids online?
06:51So we want to take care of that.
06:53There's things like the Ratepayer Protection Pledge, which the president's already announced.
06:57We want to make sure that these new AI data centers don't increase the cost of electricity for residential consumers.
07:03At the same time, we want to make it easier for those AI companies to bring their own power.
07:07So this is, I think, a much better approach than effectively the ban on new data centers that you're seeing
07:13from Bernie Sanders and others.
07:14There's principles and provisions related to content creators and how do you protect their new content while allowing for AI
07:24models to be trained.
07:25So there's a lot of different areas here that we've covered.
07:29And I think you're seeing a very good reception to this from Capitol Hill.
07:33Even the criticism, I thought, from Democrats was pretty muted.
07:37There's some Democrats who've already reached out to us.
07:39They want to work with us to see if we can do something in a bipartisan way.
07:42And so I think there's actually a very good chance that you'll see Congress now act on this framework and
07:47we'll get some meaningful AI legislation.
07:50Again, the one rulebook that President Trump's talking about in the next few months.
07:54Before November, David?
07:56A bipartisan AI framework before November?
07:59I think it could happen in the next few months.
08:02I mean, again, we've gotten a very good reception from Capitol Hill.
08:05This is an area where I think we're willing and happy to work with Democrats.
08:09And I think there's a lot of Democrats who would like to see a single national framework as well.
08:13I think they understand that it's not feasible or practical to have 50 states running in 50 different directions.
08:21And I think if we can work something out, I think we could get to the one rulebook that the
08:24president's talking about.
08:26David, looking at the composition of the council, you and I have spoken in the past that the definition of
08:32a China hawk, for example, and the context of exporting technology, it needs some discussion.
08:39But on the chip side, the infrastructure side, those are a group of CEOs that want to sell their technology
08:44around the world.
08:45Do you see that changing the president's current thinking on exporting cutting-edge or lead-edge chips to China or
08:53more generally in different jurisdictions around the world?
08:57Well, I think this administration already has a pro-export mindset because we understand that the way that American technology
09:04wins and dominates the globe is through market share.
09:08You want to have the most market share all over the world.
09:10You want the American tech stack to become the global standard.
09:14That's good for us economically.
09:15I think it's also good in terms of national security and spreading our influence.
09:19Now, whenever you're talking about countries of concern, China, potential adversaries, you have to be more careful and need a
09:26more nuanced policy.
09:27And I think the administration has supported that.
09:29But I think that in general, we want the world to be a place where American technology wins, as it
09:34did with the Internet.
09:36David, as we speak, the president is holding a cabinet meeting.
09:40Of course, Iran is the main focus right now.
09:43You described on the pod, you know, it being the time to find an off-ramp.
09:49Would you just sort of define to your mind what that off-ramp would look like?
09:54And have you discussed that with the president?
09:56Clearly, you know, the war in Iran has not impacted your decision to serve.
10:00You're proceeding with PCAST.
10:03Right.
10:04Well, I'm not on the foreign policy team or the national security team.
10:07And so when I express a view on the podcast, I think people just need to understand that's a personal
10:12view of mine.
10:13But I don't think the view that I express is very different than anything the president has said.
10:17He has said that he would like to bring this war to a conclusion.
10:21He said that our objectives are almost complete.
10:24What happens next is obviously up to him.
10:27And I don't want to get in the way of our foreign policy team making those decisions.
10:31So I think I should leave it at that.
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