00:15Продолжение следует...
00:38Продолжение следует...
01:03Продолжение следует...
01:13Продолжение следует...
01:29Продолжение следует...
01:46Продолжение следует...
01:48Продолжение следует...
01:51Продолжение следует...
02:03Продолжение следует...
02:30Продолжение следует...
02:33Продолжение следует...
03:00Продолжение следует...
03:03Продолжение следует...
03:06Продолжение следует...
03:07Продолжение следует...
03:09Продолжение следует...
03:13Продолжение следует...
03:25Продолжение следует...
03:27And rather, when you look at the Americans, the majority of TRD investment comes from the private sector.
03:34So we have a problem of scale and of attracting sufficient funds in order to bring this idea from the
03:41lab to the market.
03:42And that's all the work that the Commission is doing, looking at the period of time, 2028-2036,
03:48which is 3 trillion financial envelope, in order to allow our startups to get the funding they need
03:55and to be able to operate in a more seamless manner in the internal market.
04:02Do you think that the EU institutions, including the Commission here in Brussels,
04:05understand the enormity of the challenge? Are they focused on the right priorities?
04:09No, they are. I think that it's fair to say that in the past few months,
04:15I mean, both the European Council, the Council of Ministers, the European Parliament and the European Commission
04:19are on the right track. They're on the right track.
04:22And the free trade agreements are good agreements for us.
04:26They might be a little bit painful in certain areas.
04:29We saw the demonstration, the strikes of agricultural agricultors in France.
04:35But the free trade agreements, what they do is they expand our internal market.
04:39And as we have to compete with China and with the U.S., having access to the Canadian market,
04:46having access to the Mercosur market, having access to the Indian market,
04:50and more recently to the Australian market, is a good thing for us overall.
04:53We're hearing as well that, you know, when it comes to the big sectors of the future,
04:58clean tech, AI, quantum, that Europe is lagging behind, that China and the U.S. are really accelerating.
05:06You obviously have access to a wealth of data as the European Patent Office
05:09and to where innovation is actually happening right now.
05:12Is the outlook as gloomy as we're being told it is now?
05:15I don't think so.
05:16But I think that we really need to learn the lessons from the past.
05:20And it's clear that when you look at the research center, the major research center in the world,
05:24many are situated in Europe.
05:26Oxford, Cambridge, and SIC, just to name the two first that come to my mind.
05:29In terms of fundamental research, if we are not the best, we are among the best.
05:35And when you look at the patent data, you will see that when we are developing a technology
05:41at the fundamental research level, we have 50% of overall European patents.
05:47But when we come close to the market, which means when you have to embody this technology in products
05:53or in services, that's where you see that the Chinese or the Asian companies
05:57and the U.S. companies, they come very strong at us.
06:00So we need to improve that.
06:02And that's exactly when you move this idea from the lab to the market.
06:06What are the consequences for the European economy of not doing that, of not achieving that?
06:11We lose a race which is called the standards, which is these patents who are very close to the market,
06:19they will be those who will set the standards.
06:22And they will be called the essential patents, so the most valuable patents.
06:27So we will lose that race.
06:29We will not be setting the standard as we've been setting standards in the past.
06:34We're also hearing a lot of concern about this kind of flight of manufacturing power to other parts of the
06:39world.
06:40I'm thinking especially of China, especially when it comes to those key sectors of the future.
06:45How much of a concern is that?
06:46Well, it's kind of a concern, you know, because, I mean, when you look, for instance,
06:52when you look at what powers all this technology,
06:56it immediately comes to your mind these rare materials or this rare earth.
07:04Because basically all those who finish inium, gallium, germanium, lithium, you name them.
07:10And they are absolutely fundamental to produce what is called a permanent magnet.
07:14The permanent magnet functions without electricity, basically.
07:18And these permanent magnets, they use all kinds of high-tech technologies.
07:22So, if we were to create a supply chain from zero to the level the Chinese are,
07:30where they produce, they manufacture 90% of the rare minerals,
07:36and they have, their mines represent 60% of the overall volumes,
07:42it will take us easily 10, 15 years.
07:45And that's why I think, for instance, that another technology,
07:49which we have been talking in Europe,
07:52but not as much as we've been talking about AI or the quantum technologies,
07:56but it's the recycling, the materials recycling technologies,
08:00so that we build circular economies around specific technical fields,
08:05it's fundamental for our autonomy, for our sovereignty.
08:08Yes.
08:08We are seeing, though, a push to deregulate,
08:13kind of a stripping back on some of the, maybe, the ambitions here in the European Union.
08:18Do you think that it's creating uncertainty,
08:21this kind of push to deregulate and pull back on regulation?
08:24No, I don't think so, because, you know, the AI Act, the Quantum Act,
08:29I mean, the Act that relates to a technology that you can define vertically,
08:35they are good regulations, and we need to keep them, and we need to develop them.
08:39What I'm talking is about, you know, whatever implies a taxable fee,
08:45whatever implies bureaucracy, whatever implies registration,
08:48whatever implies licenses, whatever implies intermediaries
08:51that take apart of your time, that take apart of your money.
08:55And today, in the digital world, where we are,
08:59powered by AI and tomorrow by quantum,
09:01all these intermediaries, they're not needed,
09:04all these filling taxes and registries, they're not needed anymore.
09:08To close, I want to maybe take a step back and look globally,
09:13because there is a sense that we're seeing a big shift in power, maybe,
09:18where who's driving the global economy.
09:20We're seeing a lot of instability as well,
09:24a lot of volatility, particularly due to the geopolitical context.
09:28Where does this leave Europe, do you think?
09:30I mean, when you look at the 10 big sector, technological sectors,
09:35or you look at the 10 first big companies that file the more patents
09:41in these different areas, you will find four European amongst the 10.
09:44We're not bad.
09:45But we need to grow more of these companies.
09:48We need to grow more start-ups companies
09:51and become these first billion market value,
09:54the 10 billion market value,
09:56100 billion, the hectocorn, and then the 1 trillion.
09:58That's where we need to focus.
09:59Because there are major US companies
10:02that seem to be accelerating, accelerating,
10:04and making it very difficult to catch up as well.
10:07Some US multinationals that are investing more in innovations
10:12than in certain new economies.
10:14Yeah, I think that there's technological battles
10:16where we can bring some more incremental improvements
10:20because we lost more or less the race,
10:22the race to the cloud, the race to AI.
10:26But we can still, we still have very excellent start-ups
10:30operating in these fields.
10:31But the next big revolution I see is the quantum technology.
10:35And we're still in the phase between fundamental research
10:39and development research.
10:40But we're coming very close to the market.
10:43And typically, that's where Europe loses the battle
10:47of competitiveness, of innovation.
10:49So that's where we need to focus.
10:51And to focus there, we really need to defragment
10:54the internal market.
10:55We might need to discuss, I mean,
10:57the creation of the stock market for the EU
11:00and not these more than 30 international stock markets
11:04and to scale up these start-ups to become global players.
11:08Okay, finally, just to close,
11:10we've had two major reports about two years ago
11:14from Leta and Draghi, both previously Italian prime ministers.
11:18Yes.
11:19Mario Draghi didn't warn that if Europe doesn't do anything urgently,
11:22it could face a slow agony.
11:25Is that still a fear, a possibility?
11:27I mean, at the macro level, macroeconomic level,
11:30we are among the most costly social models
11:34and the most beautiful ones.
11:36I see myself in the European social model.
11:38But this social model, this pension system that we have,
11:42social security systems that we have, unemployment,
11:45it needs to be financed.
11:46And in order to refinance, we have no other alternative
11:49to increase our productivity and to be more competitive.
11:52Great.
11:52Antonio Campinas, thank you so much for joining us.
11:54Thank you so much for having invited me.
11:55Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok
Comments