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01:01And in doing that, we got a lot of response from the audience.
01:04And they really wanted to see Abe.
01:05They wanted to see Abe back.
01:06And we said, well, how can we do that in a special way,
01:09but yet retain true to the integrity of the original design?
01:13And speaking of the original design,
01:15it was 1997 that that released, right?
01:17That was before the first Toy Story movie,
01:20if you put it into perspective.
01:22And so at the time, there wasn't even CG motion pictures.
01:25At the time, there was still people arguing whether computer graphic characters would ever be able to really compel an
01:31audience.
01:32And I always thought that was just, you know, being someone from 3D computer graphics.
01:37That that was just kind of crazy, you know.
01:39It was obvious to me that the future was going to be more expressive in computer graphics.
01:43And so it was our first opportunity to really tell a story, our own story, using the mediums that we
01:49loved,
01:50which was 3D computer graphics and gaming.
01:52And we were really trying to bring, you know, Hollywood production value, Hollywood storytelling,
01:59and real sort of high design in terms of integrating character abilities, what the character does,
02:07who the character is emotionally, situationally, you know, the world they're living in,
02:12and really trying to bring them into a synergized experience where it just didn't feel like the character was an
02:17excuse for the game,
02:18but it felt like the two were integral and could not be separated.
02:21Absolutely, and I think that still makes the gameplay feel fresh even today,
02:27because everything is motivated by who Abe is, right?
02:30Like Abe's a wimp, he's scared.
02:32And so it's not, this was the first time I played, it looked like a platformer, it felt like a
02:36platformer,
02:37but you can't hurt anybody, you've got to convince people to help you out, because you're a weakling.
02:42You know, it was all just so fresh.
02:44When you came back to completely redesign this, was there anything you wanted to tweak in terms of gameplay, in
02:52terms of interface, to kind of update it?
02:54I mean, there was a number of things, right?
02:55The original game was very hard.
02:57Now, oddly enough, a lot of people had told us it was the first game we ever finished, but man,
03:01was it hard.
03:02And then there was a lot of other people who said, I so wanted to play that game, and it
03:05was too hard.
03:06So one of the things we knew we had to address was just difficulty levels.
03:09We had to make it more accessible for people with a lighter dexterity,
03:14and we had to make it equally as tough as the original for the people who wanted that nostalgic, hardcore
03:19feeling.
03:20But in the process of doing both, we also knew that we're changing.
03:25I mean, we had the benefit of having released the game, of having years of people playing it, and learned,
03:31you know, what to do.
03:32And we fixed a number of those things in the following game, which was called Abe's Exodus.
03:37And then, like, quick save and perfect save.
03:39Things we had screwed up the first time, and really pissed people off.
03:43I gotta tell you, the checkpoints in the original...
03:46Yeah, sorry about that.
03:47They made me cry a little bit. I teared up a little bit more.
03:50Yeah, maybe, you know...
03:52So, but all that's been smoothed out now.
03:54It has.
03:55So we brought the things that we learned from the later games, we brought them back into this first game.
04:00And a big step, obviously, is even though we originally built Abe in 3D, he was playing back as bitmaps.
04:06Right.
04:07You know, and this time it's all in real time 3D.
04:09But we were able to amortize all those assets that we built from the original game,
04:14that were built closer to film resolution, and then pre-render for the game.
04:18But we were able to use all that as a template to build new data, but it saved us a
04:22lot of time and money.
04:23So it allowed us to put more time and energy into, you know, getting the gameplay right.
04:27And if you look, like even right in these scenarios, these used to be hide zones.
04:31But in real time 3D, dealing with dynamic lighting, you're coming upon things faster, it was harder to do as
04:37just shadows.
04:38So we had to find solutions like steam zones.
04:41So you're obscuring the character enough, and you get the idea that, you know, they're not seeing him.
04:47So you play off of those sensibilities, but we had to redesign to make them work in a game where
04:53you're moving faster,
04:54you're moving continuously, and there was a number of challenges.
04:58So as you see, you know, sligs, we're coming upon them so fast now, we had to see their sight
05:03distances differently.
05:04Like we really had to treat it as a fresh design, but one of the things we did was we
05:10said, well, like in movies, you know,
05:12when they remade The Time Machine, which is one of my favorite all-time original movies, why did they change
05:17the script?
05:18Why didn't they just upgrade it to like a 21st century movie and keep the same script?
05:23And so we said, well, what if we do that?
05:25What if we stay true to the original integrity of the design?
05:27I mean, people are still buying that original game on Steam and PSN, and amazingly, they say, the design holds
05:34up.
05:35And today, 17 years later.
05:37And so we go, okay, well, then maybe we did some things right there, but let's not mess with the
05:43integrity of that, let's enhance it.
05:45And what was Abe really about?
05:46Abe was really about an empathetic character.
05:48The idea was, what if we made empathy equal rewards instead of just aggression equal rewards?
05:54And if we could do that, maybe we'd make a more emotionally compelling character.
05:58Maybe we'd make a character that, because he has to talk to other characters, and they respond, and you feel
06:04responsible for them,
06:06that we would build a deeper emotional relationship.
06:08And that was the idea, but it actually came through.
06:11I mean, I think it comes through in all the Abe tattoos I see.
06:14It's funny that you say that, because you do get a feeling, you know, as opposed to other platformers or
06:19games of the time,
06:20where, oh, I'm controlling this character.
06:22Yeah.
06:22I never felt like I was controlling Abe.
06:24I always feel like I'm trying to help Abe out.
06:26But hopefully the controls were working.
06:28The controls were great, no.
06:29But I always felt like, okay, I've got to do this.
06:32Abe and I have to kind of do this together.
06:33Yeah.
06:34You know, and so you do.
06:35You feel a responsibility for him.
06:37God, I love the deadpan look when he throws people down the trap doors.
06:43Still good.
06:44That still makes me laugh.
06:45So the idea was, like, how can we take a guy who doesn't have a gun?
06:48And, I mean, me and other original designers had a lot of arguments about this in the beginning.
06:53They said, you can't have an action game without a gun.
06:55Yeah.
06:56And I was like, we're going to.
06:57Still an argument being had to this day.
06:59Yeah.
06:59And the idea was, you know, that was like the creation of possession, was how do we give you a
07:04gun and then take it away without you being upset?
07:07That's what really led to possession.
07:10And so, you know, how does Abe's mystical abilities give him some firepower, but then not retain that and ramp
07:17on that through the game like we expect in most games that are action games?
07:22And so the idea was constantly coming back to how do we have a character who inherently really is at
07:28the bottom of the food chain, is not the muscle-bound superhero you want to be, is more likely the
07:33poor schmuck you are, you know, struggling through life.
07:36And maybe he's in a worse space than you are.
07:38But the idea was, was that if we could make him charming and endearing enough and make the characters that
07:43he has to save be funny, because he has to navigate them through extreme hazards and not always successfully.
07:51Right.
07:51And so it's brutally hilarious at times.
07:54And what we wanted to do, one of the new things that we did to enhance on that was build
07:57in all the ragdoll.
07:59So now, you know, I mean, you see Abe get shot and then he falls to his knees and then
08:03he does a face plant into a landmine.
08:05And some really funny, unpredictable events fall out that, you know, we thought was really going to be necessary for
08:11this time and era to just get a lot of the more unpredictable humor happening randomly.
08:17And I think that's working.
08:19That's awesome.
08:20And so, New and Tasty is coming to which consoles?
08:25It's coming to PlayStation 4 first.
08:27And we'll be following up, of course, with the PS Vita and PS3.
08:32We don't have dates on those yet.
08:33We just have a small team.
08:35It'll be on PC.
08:36We're still looking at when we'll release Wii U and Xbox One.
08:42Looks like it's in the cards as well.
08:44I love the idea of being able to finally take this with me as a portable game.
08:48Well, so are we.
08:50That's awesome.
08:51Yeah.
08:51Well, great.
08:52Thank you so much for joining me.
08:53Hey, it's my...
08:55PlayStation.
08:56PlayStation.
08:57PlayStation.
08:59PlayStation.
09:01PlayStation.
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