- 7 hours ago
Φάκελος 17Ν (Η αρχή του τέλους) επ04 16-3-26
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00:09I went into the hospital and I realised, uh-oh, you know, lots of press there, this is probably
00:00:13a bit more serious than Heather first thought. And I went up the stairs and my first thing
00:00:20was I had to get in and see him. I'm a theatre nurse. I thought, right, I'm going in. So
00:00:26I had a very, shall we say, heated discussion with one of the nursing staff and said, I'm
00:00:33going in, you know. I want to see him while he's still alive, or at least I think he's
00:00:38still alive. So I went into theatre, asked a few questions, came out again, and went to
00:00:50sit in a room. And really, as I was sitting there, you know, I knew they were giving me
00:00:54all the answers that I had given people over the years. They were saying all the statuary
00:00:59things, all the right words, you know, that the Megalhaemorrhagia, but it was getting less.
00:01:04And I thought, oh yes, it's probably getting less, but he's lost more. And I was saying,
00:01:10you know, don't bluff. He's going to die. He's dead. He's not alive. And of course, he wasn't.
00:07:15Oh, I will see you.
00:07:16Was also five years later
00:07:20the police Douglas
00:07:23was a good decision
00:07:27I am a good assassin.
00:07:28They could not avoid
00:07:29a grenade.
00:07:31Black after walking
00:07:32to aлон,
00:07:34he took flight
00:07:35but his然
00:07:36And there was a chance for a success.
00:07:43In the Sotters's case, all the businesses were working on.
00:07:49They were making movies, but there was no idea.
00:07:53They saw the Angles in the factories and etc.
00:07:57They were crazy. They said, what do you do?
00:07:59The tragedy of the crime was that Kyrgyz Kyrgyz.
00:08:05He was a member of the International International Research Institute.
00:08:09I said many times,
00:08:10you can't see how it works,
00:08:13no one doesn't hear anything,
00:08:15but first he came to the International International Research Institute.
00:08:17I had to tell you a story
00:08:18that when you saw a vehicle from Saunders,
00:08:22some of you were there,
00:08:23some of you were there,
00:08:23and some of you were there.
00:08:26Now,
00:08:28it's okay.
00:08:30There are many of you.
00:08:33It's okay.
00:08:34I'm sorry,
00:08:37the people were trained.
00:08:39The next few years,
00:08:41even before,
00:08:44the 17th of November,
00:08:46they were trained.
00:08:47He came to the department
00:08:48by the English director of Scott Laguern.
00:08:53He was a couple of weeks,
00:08:54he was out of all the meetings
00:08:55and after a while he gave us
00:08:58a lecture
00:08:59a couple of weeks.
00:09:00He had to tell us
00:09:00about what we need to do.
00:09:03We put it all down
00:09:05and we tried to
00:09:08try to bring the service
00:09:09to the same level.
00:09:11of this.
00:09:28The purpose of today
00:09:30was to seek as many witnesses as possible
00:09:34to try and solve this crime.
00:09:36I apologize to the people of Athens
00:09:39who have had their journey
00:09:40to work disturbed this morning.
00:09:43This is an excellent example
00:09:45of the cooperation between us
00:09:47and the Greek police.
00:09:48As I say,
00:09:50this is a heinous crime
00:09:51and two children have been robbed
00:09:54of their father.
00:09:55My objective is to be able
00:09:58to solve this crime with the Greek police.
00:10:00terrorism is a scourge
00:10:03of the whole world.
00:10:05I want to be able
00:10:06to go home
00:10:07and say to the children
00:10:09of this unfortunate incident
00:10:12that everything
00:10:14has possibly been done
00:10:15to arrest the people
00:10:17and stop this terrorism
00:10:19wherever it may occur.
00:10:21And I appeal to the people of Athens,
00:10:23please, if you know anything,
00:10:26anything whatsoever
00:10:28about this crime,
00:10:30please come forward.
00:10:32Please give evidence
00:10:33and please stop these crimes.
00:10:39That first week anniversary
00:10:41was critically important to us
00:10:44and it is a standard practice
00:10:46that we would position ourselves
00:10:49exactly at the site of the shooting.
00:10:51We would offer the leaflets.
00:10:53And a crucial part
00:10:55of those leaflets
00:10:56was an anonymous phone number
00:10:59on there.
00:11:00We want to be able
00:11:01to make sure
00:11:02that they can call us
00:11:03and feel safe.
00:11:24To be able
00:11:24those who have been
00:11:25were
00:11:26they have been
00:11:28ignorant.
00:11:29Why did we not
00:11:31give up
00:11:31about
00:11:31how we are going
00:11:32to make sure
00:11:33we are going to get
00:11:33as a country?
00:11:34I think
00:11:34that you are going to
00:11:36address the wholeent
00:11:38who are going to
00:11:39as a legacy,
00:11:42as a fear.
00:11:48The first priority was communities defeat terrorism.
00:11:52It is about telling people what we are doing as a police and why we're doing it,
00:11:59but it's also telling them that we need their help.
00:12:04Our number two focus was the victim focus, and it links with the first priority.
00:12:10The third priority I called the forensic and technical issues,
00:12:15and that was very much around going back to what we were saying about the crime scene management
00:12:22and controlling that scene and looking at it.
00:12:25We made sure that everything we did in Stephen's memory was publicised.
00:12:29We were very much helped by Heather Saunders, who the morning after Stephen's murder
00:12:37actually invited the press in. She gave a press conference outside her house.
00:12:43Stephen was my life, and our lives were so deeply entwined today
00:12:49that I stand before you as half the person I was yesterday morning.
00:12:56Stephen was a wonderful, loving man. He was a man committed to peace,
00:13:02and throughout his years in the army, he never raised his gun to kill anyone.
00:13:08He was a wonderful and very proud father of our two daughters, Nicola and Catherine,
00:13:14who now have to go through life without him. In fact, to quote both my little girls,
00:13:21he was the best daddy in the world, and they loved him very much.
00:13:26I only hope that the people that carried out this cowardly act on an unarmed man simply travelling on his
00:13:34way to work
00:13:35will realise the total devastation that they have caused.
00:13:39Not only have they killed my husband, but they have now destroyed me and my entire family.
00:13:48We must make sure this never happens again. I appeal to the Greek people and to anyone,
00:13:56anyone who knows anything, because someone must know these people.
00:14:01Someone must know about this terrible murder. We must prevent this kind of thing happening again.
00:14:09Anyone who saw anything, even a little thing, who knows anything, please tell the police,
00:14:16so that no one else has to go through what myself and my family are going through today.
00:14:40About a week after Stephen was murdered, we decided to have a memorial service for him.
00:14:45The English church is pretty small and we knew by then that there would be an awful lot of interest
00:14:50in Greeks coming to this service.
00:14:54So the Orthodox Archbishop gave us permission to use a central Athens church,
00:15:01a large one, for this memorial service.
00:15:06And Archbishop Chrysodolos became, you know, a great supporter of the whole fight against terrorism.
00:15:16And one of the things you did which was remarkable is you reached out to the Greek church.
00:15:20Yes.
00:15:21In terms of getting support.
00:15:22Of course we reached out to the Greek church because we know how important it was
00:15:26and what an important role potentially, actually, the Archbishop had to play.
00:15:32But I think there was a great readiness on the part of the Greek Orthodox Church
00:15:36to listen to us and sort of, yes, come forward.
00:15:40And they were very, very helpful.
00:15:44The sixth month anniversary of Stephen's death in December, the Archbishop held a service
00:15:52in the cathedral in central Athens for all the victims of terrorism.
00:15:55And I think that was probably the first occasion when was brought together under one roof
00:16:02all the families and friends of November the 17th victims.
00:16:07For the first time, the relatives of Stephen's death in December the 17th November
00:16:10they cut their eyes,
00:16:11they cut their eyes,
00:16:13they cut their eyes and cut their eyes.
00:16:16They cut their eyes.
00:16:16With their eyes, the families of Stephen's death
00:16:37you were there.
00:16:39And the other half a day was at their death,
00:16:41you were there.
00:16:42and we witnessed the rambler of the two of us.
00:16:45Well, we feared them.
00:16:47to come.
00:16:48And they had some dead.
00:16:49Our right was the bad that we were.
00:16:52The bad was this.
00:16:53The bad was the brutal response from the government,
00:16:55the democracy,
00:16:56the society,
00:16:58and the economic peace
00:17:00from these differences and differences
00:17:00that had their own people
00:17:03who had their own...
00:17:03the wrong people
00:17:04or why some decided to take care of their lives.
00:17:08They were so sad.
00:17:10There were several times
00:17:12categories against them
00:17:14and opinions about things
00:17:16that neither did the law enforcement,
00:17:19neither their children,
00:17:20nor their parents,
00:17:21nor their parents.
00:17:23This was something that didn't we miss.
00:17:27And there was never
00:17:30that phenomenon
00:17:31in our society.
00:17:32And of course, the government
00:17:34did not do something
00:17:34after some of the laws
00:17:36about the poverty of the children,
00:17:39and the families.
00:17:42This was the hardest thing
00:17:44if you want.
00:17:49The Kitsos didn't say names
00:17:52but he wrote,
00:17:54he photographed.
00:17:55It was a difficult situation
00:17:57which helped
00:17:58a lot
00:17:59in the country.
00:18:01The Kitsos
00:18:02The Kitsos
00:18:06The Kitsos
00:18:18The Kitsos
00:18:21The Kitsos
00:18:25The Kitsos
00:18:25Upon my initial arrival,
00:18:26I did not have security.
00:18:29The security details
00:18:30were established for, of course,
00:18:32the ambassador, the deputy chief commission,
00:18:34which is in all embassies,
00:18:36but also for the defense attache,
00:18:39the security attache,
00:18:41the defense cooperation attache.
00:18:45Why?
00:18:45Because those, in fact,
00:18:48had been the targets of November 17.
00:18:50So I arrived there in early November,
00:18:52but having been trained
00:18:54in counter-surveillance,
00:18:56having been trained to be aware,
00:18:57there were several unusual occurrences
00:19:00that just concerned me.
00:19:01And then there was a confluence of issues
00:19:03that came together
00:19:04in early 2001
00:19:07that seemed to indicate
00:19:09and this is information coming in
00:19:11from different sources,
00:19:13counter-surveillance reports,
00:19:14that my profile
00:19:16had been raised considerably
00:19:19in Greece
00:19:20and that there was concern
00:19:22that I might be the next victim
00:19:25of November 17.
00:19:26And so from that point on,
00:19:28I had a security detail
00:19:30much like the other officials
00:19:32in the embassy.
00:19:33When the campaign was published
00:19:34for Saunders,
00:19:36the CIA fell to David John Kyriakou
00:19:37for a few hours.
00:19:39It's August,
00:19:40and I get into the embassy
00:19:42and my boss says,
00:19:43did you see the manifesto?
00:19:45I said, no,
00:19:47there was no manifesto.
00:19:48He said, no,
00:19:49they published it today.
00:19:51He said, I think
00:19:52they're talking about you.
00:19:54I said, me?
00:19:55Not me.
00:19:56I've been very, very careful
00:19:58about my security.
00:20:00And he showed it to me.
00:20:02He said,
00:20:02but he was driving an armored car
00:20:05and we knew he was armed.
00:20:07And I said, well,
00:20:09it could be me, I guess.
00:20:12My boss said, you have to go.
00:20:14I said, go where?
00:20:16He said, home.
00:20:17I said, I just took my kids to school.
00:20:19I can't go home.
00:20:21I said, my wife is going to kill me.
00:20:24He said, you take a car to the airport.
00:20:26We'll pick up your kids and your wife
00:20:29and take them to the airport,
00:20:30but you have to go.
00:20:32So I gave them my guns
00:20:33and I got in the car with a driver
00:20:36and I went to the airport.
00:20:37They bring my wife and my kids.
00:20:39My wife says, I want a divorce.
00:20:41I can't live like this anymore.
00:20:43And we got a divorce.
00:20:45But we flew back.
00:20:46We were on the 12 o'clock delta flight
00:20:48to New York.
00:20:50We got to New York
00:20:51and then Washington.
00:20:52She said, I'm done.
00:20:54And that was the end of it.
00:20:56The most important people
00:20:57came to use of the government
00:20:59after a phone call.
00:21:01The most important people
00:21:03have separated
00:21:04because they came to the Department of Police
00:21:06as chairman of the state of the federal government,
00:21:09Mr. Michalian Khrysofoyd,
00:21:10Mr. Michalian Khrysofoyd,
00:21:11he didn't know the democracy,
00:21:12but he listened,
00:21:15but heard and discussed with us.
00:21:19He sent us a brief.
00:21:20And we took place,
00:21:21and then in a moment
00:21:22we got just one of our friends.
00:21:24a war against the end of the democracy.
00:21:30At the Attorney General and the Attorney General of the E.J.
00:21:33The Attorney General of the Diotis, the Attorney General of the Diotis,
00:21:35the Attorney General of the Diotis and the Attorney General of the Diotis
00:21:40was a very smart man.
00:21:43He was a man, little to the ground,
00:21:47immediately he got out and started.
00:21:50And by the way, having a motto that he had said,
00:21:54let's go to a road, he said,
00:21:56that's why we're going faster.
00:21:58He was a victim of an astronaut.
00:22:05Not an astronaut, but an astronaut.
00:22:07He was the symbol of the Diocchi.
00:22:10He was a full-fledged man.
00:22:13He talked to many people.
00:22:15I remember something that I had been influenced.
00:22:17I was in the office a day,
00:22:19as an astronaut,
00:22:21and he called him a victim from the Gorida Lo
00:22:26and asked him to help his mother, his mother,
00:22:30to the hospital.
00:22:32And he sent his license,
00:22:34took his mother to him,
00:22:38went to the doctor,
00:22:39went to the doctor,
00:22:39went to the doctor,
00:22:40and took him to the doctor.
00:22:40And he was like,
00:22:43he was like,
00:22:44this is his son.
00:22:44And I was like,
00:22:47I can't see him before the doctor.
00:22:50And I felt like...
00:22:50It was trained for many months,
00:22:53every night,
00:22:55at my office,
00:22:56from the 10pm,
00:22:57to work until the 4pm,
00:23:00and to speak to the 4pm,
00:23:03to talk with the CFP.
00:23:05with answers,
00:23:07and meeting,
00:23:08to come forward.
00:23:09We hope that we will be able to find out.
00:23:13In the summer of 2001, there is a historical and a historical member of the Greek democracy.
00:23:20He asks for a contact with the Prime Minister, Micheal Xochoydi, and the leadership of the European Union.
00:23:25He begins to have some meetings with him, which will write the story.
00:23:29This man appears as a man, as a man, as a man, as a man.
00:23:33In this book, there is a protagonist named K. H.
00:23:39Tell us how you saw him first, where he came, what he said, how he used to deal with it
00:23:44and what you learned about him.
00:23:45This man opened my eyes.
00:23:48This man began to be guided day by day, because he came many times and every day.
00:23:56There were many hours, nights.
00:23:59There were many places in the H. H.
00:24:05To the house of the H. H.
00:24:08He was also a victim of a cigar.
00:24:11He drank alcohol. I didn't drink alcohol.
00:24:15But then I drank alcohol for him to be a friend of mine.
00:24:20He was a victim of a woman.
00:24:23He was a victim of a woman, without being a woman, without being a person.
00:24:30He saw things, but he didn't know things.
00:24:33What I knew, however, was the main point.
00:24:35How did he work all this life?
00:24:39What did he say to me?
00:24:41He said that this man did all this, he's a reward.
00:24:45It is either, many of my brothers are in prison,
00:24:50either in prison, or in trouble,
00:24:54or in prison, or in prison,
00:24:56and we didn't have anything to do.
00:24:58With Mr. H. he spoke to F. N. Asciakos,
00:25:01who gave him the name of Kitsos.
00:25:04Kitsos didn't say names,
00:25:08but he wrote, photographed,
00:25:10and he said, after a moment and then,
00:25:13I said, I'm sorry,
00:25:14I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
00:25:18It was a difficult situation,
00:25:20which helped me very much
00:25:22in the respect of the democracy.
00:25:24It was many times that he had come together.
00:25:26It was many times.
00:25:28It was many times.
00:25:30But he had a conversation with him.
00:25:32And as a man,
00:25:34not only as a man,
00:25:36he had a conversation with him.
00:25:38And that's why he had a conversation with him.
00:25:41Yes.
00:25:43We didn't go to Kitsos,
00:25:46but at the same time,
00:25:47it was a moment where
00:25:48this was not a house,
00:25:50or a house,
00:25:51or anything else,
00:25:52or something like that.
00:25:53There was a theory
00:25:54that was written in the book
00:25:55of Mr. H.
00:25:56Mr. H.
00:25:57All of us,
00:25:58who is the first one
00:26:00to open the door
00:26:00to tell you
00:26:02a little bit
00:26:03of the evidence
00:26:03of him.
00:26:05Was it important to him?
00:26:06Yes.
00:26:08Yes.
00:26:10Yes.
00:26:11What did he do?
00:26:12What did he do?
00:26:27What did he do?
00:26:31What did he do?
00:26:33What did he do?
00:26:45What did he do?
00:26:48What did he do?
00:26:49What did he do?
00:26:50What did he do?
00:26:51What did he do?
00:26:52Can I ask him
00:26:57what did he do?
00:27:01What did he do?
00:27:06He didn't tell the truth
00:27:09it was not true.
00:27:11and all your life.
00:27:12Did you ask me if I came to the hospital?
00:27:14I don't want to say anything.
00:27:18In the FBI, there is a special team
00:27:21that describes the profile of the terrorists and the terrorists.
00:27:41And any number of disciplines.
00:27:43And they will take a ransom note.
00:27:46They will take a threat note.
00:27:48They will take a photograph.
00:27:50And they can analyze it.
00:27:52And they can tell you with a degree of certainty,
00:27:55the age, the sex, the socioeconomic level, education.
00:28:02Does the author know the victim?
00:28:05Is the threat real?
00:28:07Is the victim alive?
00:28:11Fascinating what they can do.
00:28:12And here's what we did.
00:28:13We gathered the original proclamations from November 17.
00:28:18All of them.
00:28:19We sent them to Quantico,
00:28:20where they were all translated by a single translator.
00:28:24The author of these proclamations is extremely well-educated.
00:28:29He might be a mathematician or a professor.
00:28:32The author has a remarkable degree of fluency in French, but it's not his native language.
00:28:43The author studies actions.
00:28:47There is a significant effort to choose his victims.
00:28:56And starting a justification on why this victim should be executed.
00:29:03It's almost as if it's a trial in this person's mind on why a certain victim has been selected and
00:29:11why they deserve to die.
00:29:13That's why.
00:29:24That's why.
00:29:27I have taken care of bullying from the Ministry of Justice for 40 years of my work,
00:29:34nor a lot of us appeared as a practice in the SEA,
00:29:38which we used to translate with American law in Greece,
00:29:42but it was the same situation we had before,
00:29:44where we were forced to take care of.
00:29:49The climate of the threat,
00:29:51if it was related to the threat,
00:29:54The government was running from a local government.
00:29:57The government thought that the cost of this should be
00:30:01from the government.
00:30:03It's the climate that is created in such cases
00:30:07where we could not have to do that a government,
00:30:11an ordinary person who would be able to access the cost of this,
00:30:15could be able to meet the government
00:30:18in which the government would create such cases.
00:30:21The law is in April of 2001, with the support of the United States,
00:30:27but also with the great action of the VULEC.
00:30:30It is a hard time.
00:30:32It is a hard time to remember.
00:30:32It is a hard time to remember,
00:30:34which were used for a while,
00:30:37against ideologies, against ideologies,
00:30:39while they had another goal.
00:30:41At least, you should be able to make these more decisions,
00:30:43because it will remain a slave in our society.
00:30:47We will not be afraid tomorrow.
00:30:49Not only do I review the law, Mr. President,
00:30:53but I believe that the political and administrative practice
00:30:56that followed,
00:30:57except for the legalization I have given.
00:31:07On March 12th, the president and the president
00:31:10have been in a new phase.
00:31:17Mr. Richard Dirland.
00:31:18We'll visit the state of Cambridge's University
00:31:20to find the former president of the British States,
00:31:23Mr. Richard Dirland.
00:31:25I was, in fact, the chief of British intelligence, the chief of MI6.
00:31:32I was a career officer, and I joined the service very early on, 1966, retiring in 2004.
00:31:42So, in fact, I was the head of service during that particular period.
00:31:48And you worked very closely back then with the Greek intelligence service and Pavlos Apostolidis, I believe.
00:31:53Well, I mean, I had met Pavlos Apostolidis.
00:31:56I mean, he was one of my European opposite numbers.
00:31:58And I think we straightaway hit it off.
00:32:01He regarded the link with us as important for him.
00:32:03And, you know, that's where that relationship grew up.
00:32:07And I think he was very supportive.
00:32:09I think they were very keen to our help, given that we were now directly involved with N17 as a
00:32:16target.
00:32:18There was a round of different groups working in different ways.
00:32:22So, the intelligence groups were working together, the evidence groups were working together.
00:32:26The same with the Hellenic Police and the Hellenic Intelligence Agency.
00:32:31And then that was all coordinated together with meetings with Minister Chris Hoytus.
00:32:39The American people were working together.
00:32:43but they didn't have this strategic approach
00:32:49that the English side had.
00:32:52To tell the truth, the Americans were disappointed.
00:32:55They were disappointed by us, who didn't do anything,
00:32:59and they had so many mistakes,
00:33:01but at the same time they were disappointed
00:33:03by their own efforts
00:33:04that they didn't have given them so many years
00:33:07through the studies they did.
00:33:09You know, the CIA has lots of advantages of size and money.
00:33:13I think they look towards MI6 for sophistication often
00:33:18and for success, and we've always enjoyed,
00:33:22let's say, an equal seat at the table,
00:33:24which is quite a compliment if you look at the disparity
00:33:27between the two countries and the two powers.
00:33:29At this point in time, you had the right people
00:33:33at the right time, at the right place,
00:33:36and there is such a spirit of cooperation.
00:33:51So, I think you had a pretty unique situation in Greece
00:33:54where maybe the anti-Yunte people felt betrayed
00:33:59by an extremist group that claimed part of their identity.
00:34:02So, they had an incentive to talk.
00:34:06So, what I would say is that our officers, I think,
00:34:09are trained to judge the situation
00:34:11and to act accordingly.
00:34:13And I also gather this was a small group of people
00:34:15dealing with this, right, back then?
00:34:17Oh, God, it was just two or three.
00:34:19Three highly trained, able.
00:34:22Did you, at any point,
00:34:24think there was some political connections to this group?
00:34:26I mean, to the Greek establishment, or...?
00:34:28I think there were suspicions early on
00:34:32that there might be politicians
00:34:35because of the sort of links to PASOK
00:34:37who were protecting some of these extremists.
00:34:41But I'm not aware now in the investigation
00:34:44that ever anything of that nature came to light.
00:34:47And is reading history and understanding history
00:34:50a big part of their job in some ways?
00:34:52I think we've all learned that with terrorist movements
00:34:55whether they're religious,
00:34:57whether they're purely ideological,
00:34:59whether they're territorial.
00:35:02Understanding what caused them,
00:35:05understanding the full context
00:35:08is really a crucial part.
00:35:16My understanding is that the team that I put together
00:35:19sat down with the proclamation that N17 had produced,
00:35:24of which there were a hundred or something,
00:35:27and they went through them forensically
00:35:31and extrapolated from the evidence in the proclamation
00:35:36what or who we were looking for.
00:35:40So what it really boiled down to was a Greek.
00:35:45An extremist who wasn't a communist
00:35:48because they had slagged off the Communist Party.
00:35:51Someone who'd probably been in Paris and spoke French
00:35:55because there were references to French literature
00:35:58and references to Paris.
00:36:00So, I mean, what we decided was to conduct
00:36:04a very, very tight investigation,
00:36:08working with the Greek authorities,
00:36:13working with our own counter-terrorist police.
00:36:16And I think we didn't get, you know,
00:36:20distracted from that path.
00:36:22And I think it was just very, very determined pursuit.
00:36:27And I think the French link, in my understanding,
00:36:31was important because we had the benefit then
00:36:33of a very good, and we still do,
00:36:37close working relationship in Paris.
00:36:40And I mean, I served in Paris
00:36:41and was responsible for that relationship
00:36:43earlier in my career.
00:36:44So I know exactly how it worked.
00:36:47And I think what we understood from the proclamations
00:36:50that this was somebody who was part of the anti-Junta movement
00:36:55in Greece, but was actually in whatever cells they had in Paris.
00:37:01And we were pretty confident that the French,
00:37:03if they searched their archive properly,
00:37:06would have a record of them.
00:37:08And I think that was at least an initial breakthrough
00:37:12before the investigation then transferred primarily to Greece.
00:37:18So the breakthrough is that you sent somebody there
00:37:21who actually discovered a photo?
00:37:23Well, I think my understanding is that the RG
00:37:26eventually came up with a photograph
00:37:27of the person that they believed had founded or started N17.
00:37:32I think it had a different name to begin with.
00:37:34They came up with a candidate.
00:37:37And then in terms of the investigations that were done in Greece,
00:37:42we were able to confirm the identity of the person in the photo.
00:37:47And then I think at that point we knew
00:37:50who at least was the primary mover in this N17 group.
00:37:56So I mean, that was a very significant breakthrough.
00:37:57A little bit later,
00:38:00the French government,
00:38:02the French government,
00:38:02the French government,
00:38:03the French government,
00:38:03and the French government,
00:38:04the French government,
00:38:05who is known as Mr. Fox,
00:38:08they played a big game
00:38:09at the Attorney's Office of the General Budget
00:38:11We were in a evening at the office of the mayor.
00:38:17I, I think it was Angeléas Oddiotis,
00:38:21I wanted to talk about this and here,
00:38:24one of the Englishman who was in the Presbyterian,
00:38:28who he did his efforts,
00:38:31and that was important.
00:38:33He was mainly talking about people
00:38:37who were his son from Paris and etc.
00:38:41He said, I will tell you,
00:38:43who is the 17th of November.
00:38:47I said, I would play a game.
00:38:50We would write it in a paper,
00:38:52and we would write it in a paper,
00:38:54who we think,
00:38:56who we think is the 17th of November.
00:39:01The screen, from the bottom,
00:39:03he wrote it,
00:39:03Alexander Zgitopoulos,
00:39:05the screen,
00:39:06the 18th of November,
00:39:07he wrote it,
00:39:08the Archive of the 17th of November,
00:39:10the Archive of the 19th of November,
00:39:14the Archive of the 19th of November,
00:39:15the Archive of the 19th of November.
00:39:18We were talking about the same.
00:39:21I asked him for the first time,
00:39:23when I heard the name of the first time,
00:39:25all these years,
00:39:26I was in the Dremocritian.
00:39:27I heard it for the first time,
00:39:29in the first time,
00:39:31I was almost a writer,
00:39:33in the public's newspapers,
00:39:35who I knew as a guy,
00:39:37because he was the name of the Dremocritian,
00:39:39when he was in Thessaloniki,
00:39:42when he was in Thessaloniki.
00:39:43I talked to him with the Bungalow,
00:39:45and, of course,
00:39:47he was the same to me.
00:39:50We talked to him many days,
00:39:53because the Bungalow was very graphic,
00:39:56very graphic,
00:39:58and I kept the statements,
00:40:01and we reached out to some discussions,
00:40:04and I, even more,
00:40:06in order to get into the research.
00:40:08When did the Dremocritian begin?
00:40:11Look, after the conversation,
00:40:13with the Bungalow,
00:40:15and all the people
00:40:18who were in the period of the Dremocritian,
00:40:19in Paris,
00:40:21I started,
00:40:23and I think,
00:40:24that we are talking about
00:40:26a very close circle of people,
00:40:28and soon, we reached out to the one.
00:40:30Did the name of the Giotopoulos
00:40:31before the Englés,
00:40:33before the Saunders,
00:40:34had it come out?
00:40:36The name of the Giotopoulos
00:40:37had it come out
00:40:39because I did the Giotopoulos
00:40:40in the Giotopoulos
00:40:42in the Giotopoulos
00:40:43in Paris,
00:40:45and, of course,
00:40:47I asked them,
00:40:48I asked them,
00:40:50I asked them,
00:40:50I asked them,
00:40:51if they have something
00:40:51to tell us
00:40:52about the Giotopoulos
00:40:53that are in Paris,
00:40:56or in the Giotopoulos
00:40:57and they may be
00:40:58in the Giotopoulos
00:40:59and I asked them
00:41:02a small group of people
00:41:06who were in the Giotopoulos
00:41:09and I tried to learn
00:41:10through other people
00:41:11to learn a little more.
00:41:13I was a little more
00:41:14than I could have
00:41:15and I couldn't find them.
00:41:16Did you remember the first photo?
00:41:18how did you see the first time
00:41:20that you saw?
00:41:21Yes,
00:41:22there was a photo
00:41:23that came to the hands of
00:41:26of the Giotopoulos
00:41:26from Paul Paul
00:41:26which was about
00:41:29a archive of
00:41:30some citizens
00:41:32of Paris
00:41:34and,
00:41:36after,
00:41:37there was a archive
00:41:39that was
00:41:40person to need
00:41:41a film
00:41:41After that
00:41:42they forced the rodents
00:41:49to do a picture
00:41:50in the Giotopoulos
00:41:52with a
00:41:52a
00:41:53form of
00:41:53on the Giotopoulos
00:41:55for political reasons.
00:41:59And a book of the 1968
00:42:01from the Stratological Bureau of the Atticus,
00:42:03which was a famous for its powers.
00:42:07When did you realize that it was someone from the L.A. and the Giotopoulos?
00:42:10My feeling was that the name of Giotopoulos
00:42:13was the name of the Giotopoulos
00:42:16from the 1990s,
00:42:18at least in a few cycles.
00:42:20But I think that
00:42:23those who knew him,
00:42:25I think that
00:42:26both from the left,
00:42:29both from the PASOK
00:42:31and from the N.D.
00:42:32Even though,
00:42:34these were a little unscathed
00:42:35when I was in Paris,
00:42:38thinking about what I was thinking.
00:42:43They were also representatives,
00:42:45representatives,
00:42:47but they allowed them
00:42:48to say that
00:42:50what they were doing
00:42:51for the C.I.E.A.
00:42:54or what they were doing
00:42:56what they were doing
00:42:58for the Giotopoulos
00:43:01for the Giotopoulos
00:43:01and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:08and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:10and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:12and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:12But they are
00:43:13and they are
00:43:16and they are
00:43:17and they are
00:43:20the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:27and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:42and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:48which is the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:54which is the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:55and the women in France
00:43:56and the name of Giotopoulos
00:43:58In fact,
00:43:58the American universal government
00:43:59is a special education
00:44:00in response to Giotopoulos
00:44:00and that is
00:44:02that the whole system
00:44:05is a special supported
00:44:07for the government.
00:44:08I was to provide advice to the administration, and I, you know, I talked to President Bush
00:44:13a couple of times about this, of whether I believed that this was a safe and secure
00:44:21enough environment for the U.S. Olympic team to come.
00:44:23Now, I'll tell you a little secret.
00:44:26The President of the United States cannot tell Olympic athletes they can't come.
00:44:32The President of the United States can affirm a travel advisory.
00:44:36That's what, that's the capability that we had.
00:44:40If we thought the environment was not secure enough, we would issue a travel advisory.
00:44:46And it's actually the U.S. Olympic Committee that would make the decision of whether the
00:44:51athletes would come or not, but, you know, there's no way if we ever issued a travel advisory
00:44:57that the Olympic Committee would say, oh, it's okay to come.
00:45:00Did you ever come close to saying that, to using that as leverage?
00:45:04Didn't have to really use it as leverage.
00:45:06Everyone knew it was out there.
00:45:07Everyone knew that the, what we call the 600-pound gorilla in the room was the Olympics coming up.
00:45:14In the meantime, there was no information in the U.S. Army.
00:45:44And I think it was true.
00:45:53I think it was true.
00:45:57It was true.
00:46:02It was true.
00:46:03It was true.
00:46:08It was true.
00:46:08It was true.
00:46:16It was true.
00:46:23It was true.
00:46:29It was true.
00:46:32It was true.
00:46:42It was true.
00:46:42It was true.
00:46:46It was true.
00:46:49It was true.
00:46:50It was true.
00:46:53It was true.
00:47:01It was true.
00:47:35It's true.
00:47:41It was true.
00:47:42It was true as anything.
00:47:43They weren't able to do it as a set of hope on the fight."
00:47:44that if you think of the web of connections and associations and evidence
00:47:50that brings it forward in a graphical form
00:47:53that can distill masses and masses of information into a single page,
00:48:01almost has a spider's web that draws together.
00:48:05We took a couple of jobs that we couldn't really do.
00:48:10You can't, let's say, when you have 30,000 pieces to make it.
00:48:18But that's where I got it.
00:48:21Something that helped me a lot in the research with the Makarito Souders.
00:48:26There was a very clear link in the forensic evidence world
00:48:30that there were signature weapons that N17 would use,
00:48:35particularly 4-5 Colt pistols.
00:48:39Where do they get the vehicles from?
00:48:41Where do they commit the crime?
00:48:43So is there a geographical line?
00:48:45And I remember them telling me that Cefisius Avenue,
00:48:49there was a 15-kilometre line.
00:48:52And if you took two kilometres either side of that line,
00:48:57most of the vehicles, most of the incidents stuck to that line.
00:49:02So sometimes you can sort of profile what is in the mind of the terrorists to do that.
00:49:10And that's the sort of work that we started to look at
00:49:13to bring all of those cases together to start helping them.
00:49:17I understand another critical part was getting ready for searches into safe houses,
00:49:22once they discovered.
00:49:23It's very, very important.
00:49:25First and foremost, for safety,
00:49:28because there has been experience of terrorists
00:49:31just booby-trapping those safe houses to try and catch the police officers.
00:49:36But secondly, to make sure that the forensic recovery
00:49:40is the best recovery that you can have.
00:49:43At the same time, the Americans understand that they have to look at all the old
00:49:48faquets and fall down on a very important name.
00:49:51As I mentioned, the process of doing overlays
00:49:53and identifying potential individuals with a nexus,
00:49:58some kind of nexus to November 17.
00:50:01And I believe that Vasilios Sorsadios
00:50:07had come to our attention.
00:50:09Now, when this name surfaced,
00:50:11we did not have the specific information that he was November 17,
00:50:15but it certainly showed the process of this overlays
00:50:20and analysis was headed in the right direction
00:50:24and eventually, we would have been able, I believe,
00:50:27to tie him to attacks.
00:50:30George Sorsadios had been a few years before
00:50:34and he had been looking for an anti-democratic
00:50:37for an anti-democracy for an anti-democracy
00:50:40in front of the American military military,
00:50:44I think it was the N.A.C.E.F.
00:50:47I can't make a mistake.
00:50:48It was McIntyre.
00:50:48Yes, it was McIntyre.
00:50:50There, so, there was a
00:50:53Giorgiatos.
00:50:53The other one on the machine
00:50:55was Dmitrius Kufondinas.
00:50:59When Giorgiatos had been
00:51:03then,
00:51:05they started the famous
00:51:06voices,
00:51:08the categories
00:51:09against the economy,
00:51:11all these things
00:51:13that happened every time.
00:51:14In the same way.
00:51:17So, the police,
00:51:19in front of the fear
00:51:21and in the lack of assistance,
00:51:24the police left.
00:51:25I don't know what happened in the time.
00:51:29This was the case.
00:51:30This was the case.
00:51:31It was the case
00:51:32in the past,
00:51:36before the death of McIntyre.
00:51:39It was the case
00:51:39that it was the case
00:51:39that it was the case
00:51:41that it was the case
00:51:41that it was the case
00:51:44that the Giorgiatos
00:51:48was the first member
00:51:50of the 17th of November.
00:51:53Mr. Fox
00:51:55was connected with the old
00:51:56brothers of Giorgiatos
00:51:57from the Soviet Union.
00:52:00One of them
00:52:01was Diktor Sagnostopoulos.
00:52:03Did you get the telephone
00:52:05one day?
00:52:06Yes, I got the telephone
00:52:07one day.
00:52:08He told me
00:52:09that you know,
00:52:10we did some research
00:52:12on the period
00:52:14of the resistance.
00:52:16I don't know.
00:52:18and I wanted to speak
00:52:20and have a coffee
00:52:21together.
00:52:22Did you talk about the Greek
00:52:22all of them?
00:52:23Yes, all of them.
00:52:24From the Greek.
00:52:26When did it happen?
00:52:27When did it happen?
00:52:27At some point,
00:52:30he started to talk
00:52:31about the president
00:52:33on the 17th of November.
00:52:35Until I saw him
00:52:36and said,
00:52:37why are you talking about
00:52:38this person?
00:52:39It's an organization.
00:52:41These companies
00:52:43wanted many people.
00:52:44as I heard,
00:52:45as I heard,
00:52:45I started to tell
00:52:47about the same things
00:52:48that were happening.
00:52:50That the president
00:52:52who was,
00:52:53who lived
00:52:54for 30 years
00:52:59was,
00:53:00yes,
00:53:01this person
00:53:03was from a historical family
00:53:05and his father
00:53:06was a historical person
00:53:07of the Eastern,
00:53:10of the Eastern,
00:53:11of the Eastern,
00:53:11Orthodox
00:53:11and the other
00:53:13who had taken
00:53:14part of the Spanish
00:53:15and he was
00:53:16there.
00:53:18He was there
00:53:19for a long time.
00:53:20He was there.
00:53:20He was there.
00:53:22He was there.
00:53:23He was there.
00:53:23He told me
00:53:25that you know
00:53:26who you are.
00:53:28And you know
00:53:29who you are.
00:53:30who you are.
00:53:32And I was there.
00:53:33and he hadporte
00:53:34and said
00:53:35this.
00:53:36I told you
00:53:36you are there.
00:53:37You say
00:53:38that I am her 17
00:53:40of November.
00:53:41I'm there.
00:53:42I'm there.
00:53:44You can write
00:53:45as a person
00:53:46you can use
00:53:49this
00:53:49and you can use
00:53:54But you can write
00:53:55another person
00:53:55who is writing
00:53:55and that everyone knows.
00:53:57He was the director of the theatre director
00:54:00and the former member of the 29th of May, Andréa Staikou.
00:54:03I worked at the European Center for Logo-Technical Transformation.
00:54:08There was an Angler who I loved him,
00:54:11because I started to talk about my work and read my work.
00:54:14He was speaking of Greek.
00:54:16He was speaking of a Greek theatre artist
00:54:20who knew very well to analyze my work.
00:54:24I was amazed.
00:54:25And suddenly, after a meeting,
00:54:29he made a picture of a photograph of Giotopoulos.
00:54:34Do you know him?
00:54:36I know him.
00:54:39Who is Giotopoulos?
00:54:41He said, he is not Giotopoulos.
00:54:43He said, I am Giotopoulos.
00:54:45Then he took another photograph of me with Giotopoulos.
00:54:50He said, no.
00:54:51What did you think of Giotopoulos?
00:54:54I didn't believe in Giotopoulos.
00:54:54I didn't believe in Giotopoulos.
00:54:55I didn't believe in Giotopoulos.
00:54:56Because before I asked him,
00:54:57what would you think of Giotopoulos?
00:54:59And I said, I'm sure he is in Latin America.
00:55:02He was the one who would like him.
00:55:04Have you ever heard of Giotopoulos.
00:55:08I was in touch with the Giotopoulos,
00:55:09that we would like to be able to deliver,
00:55:12something like that?
00:55:13Really, after a while,
00:55:16you started to say,
00:55:19look at this,
00:55:21what we are interested in,
00:55:23is this story to end,
00:55:24to end.
00:55:25I was suddenly thinking,
00:55:27what do you say?
00:55:29What you say is that,
00:55:31you are trying to say
00:55:31that, maybe I have a
00:55:36channel, to communicate
00:55:38and to give me a message.
00:55:39But I don't have it.
00:55:41The relationship between Mr. Fox
00:55:43continues with the change of technical
00:55:45weapons and guns.
00:55:47The last thing that comes out of the practice of the MSX
00:55:49is a Korean poet,
00:55:50with the title,
00:55:51the name of the Skony Nefritis.
00:55:57The Nefritis is there,
00:55:58at the edge of the road,
00:56:00but it is
00:56:02hidden in the Skony.
00:56:04The first thing that's
00:56:05the purpose of the interview,
00:56:06you know,
00:56:11the Skony Nefritis is a dark.
00:56:17The one who is,
00:56:19that the one who is looking for it,
00:56:20that the one who is looking for it,
00:56:21will find the one who is looking for it.
00:56:24And this is the question of the moment.
00:56:27The Michaelis Christochoydis wanted to make some noise.
00:56:30He was able to make a mistake.
00:56:32He was able to make some mistakes.
00:56:35He was able to make some noise.
00:56:36He was able to tell the audience.
00:56:38He said,
00:56:38could you have to take it?
00:56:43What do we know about the organization?
00:56:46He said,
00:56:47you were able to tell the audience.
00:56:50And with the small light,
00:56:52and the light of me then,
00:56:53you will be able to write it from now.
00:56:56That's how it happened.
00:56:58This exhibition I wrote in my house
00:57:01without taking a look at me.
00:57:04I wanted to highlight in this exhibition
00:57:09that I had been a victim
00:57:12for all these years
00:57:15in an endocratical effort.
00:57:17That's why this exhibition had been published
00:57:21in this exhibition
00:57:24to make them wrong.
00:57:26We were ready.
00:57:27We were waiting.
00:57:28And we knew that we were getting to them.
00:57:31And if you start getting them worried,
00:57:35they're going to start making mistakes.
00:57:36So this was like a cat and mouse game, I suppose, right?
00:57:39Very much so.
00:57:40Very much so.
00:57:41But this cat never ever gives up.
00:57:44I think it was imminent.
00:57:45They were extremely close.
00:57:47The sentence that was given to Mr. Simiti,
00:57:49that says,
00:57:50and you are and I,
00:57:52that is all.
00:57:54The pressure was transferred
00:57:56to all the authorities
00:57:57and especially to the anti-tropocritical.
00:58:02They felt that it was a gap
00:58:04before the big business
00:58:05and the maintenance of Alexander Diotopoulos.
00:58:08Now we are in the Normandia.
00:58:10We are ready for the progress
00:58:12of the acts of violence.
00:58:15military.
00:58:21I called myself
00:58:22and said to me,
00:58:23I'm going to break it down.
00:58:25I'm going to break it down.
00:58:36It was almost...
00:58:37this entire house of cards started just falling down.
Comments