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00:01the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals joining the dragons tonight i'm suzy mar and i'm the founder and ceo of
00:27tropic skincare good to have you back suzy oh thank you so much i'm so happy to be back again
00:32my business has been one of the top 100 fastest growing businesses in the uk that's what i'm
00:39looking for when i look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs i want to see real passion i
00:44really like you i'm looking for that entrepreneur with that seed of an idea that i know i can invest
00:49in support to make it something amazing i'm getting emotional here i am buzzing with excitement
00:56and i'm ready to make investments
01:08my name is dr katherine fernando and i'm a gp my business is called ayasu
01:17don't tell me it's a backpack well it's got a stethoscope there
01:23i've no idea why i'm engaging in this i hate this game
01:29i'm feeling quite nervous i've been a doctor for 24 years but i've only been a businesswoman for
01:35two so i'm anxious about the examination that the dragons are going to give me but
01:53hello dragons my name is dr katherine fernando and i'm a gp i'm here to ask you for 50 000
02:02pounds in
02:02return for a 20 share in my company ayasu ayasu is a japanese word that means to heal and that
02:10is what
02:11millions of doctors around the world do every day but did you know that the traditional gladstone
02:17doctors bag was designed in the 1800s at a time when the vast majority of doctors were men thankfully times
02:26have changed and nowadays over 50 percent of doctors in the uk are female unfortunately the bags have not
02:34these boring bags are outdated masculine and sometimes they don't even have enough pockets to hold our medical equipment
02:48iasi makes high-end luxury doctors bags designed for women in healthcare
02:53they contain multiple pockets to carry and organize our medical equipment and we have six different designs and each is
03:02named after a pioneering female doctor
03:05iasi has been trading for two years we have sold nearly 300 bags and we have had a turnover since
03:13launch
03:13combined of eighty thousand pounds before i welcome your questions i'd like to give you all a bag so that
03:20you can inspect them
03:23a stylish range of bags tailored to the taste of female gps and other healthcare professionals is the offering from
03:31dr katherine fernando
03:33this one's for you peter thank you very much okay dr jones this one's for you dr boutlett thank you
03:40so much
03:40thank you she's asking for fifty thousand pounds in return for a twenty percent share of her company
03:48so i've chosen the red one for you good choice thank you very much the bags are proving popular
03:56i like yours this is cool and already wanting to make a trade do i swap stephen bartlett is first
04:04with a question
04:08dr katherine hello what type of doctor are you i'm a gp a gp okay um is this your first
04:15business it is
04:16yes i think the um the elephant in the room is just about the size of the market because yes
04:20i don't know
04:21how many doctors there are and how many people that would be relevant to use this kind of bag okay
04:26so um the doctors that are relevant for this kind of bag are general practitioners and in the uk there
04:33are 54 000 gps and over half of doctors in the uk are female now and about 60 of them
04:40go into general
04:41practice okay so how so how how many customers do you think you have that could buy this product
04:47in the uk total in the uk total i think i would have 28 000 customers that could buy a
04:55bag it's not
04:56a huge market is it it is quite a niche market the market is expanded when you include advanced nurse
05:02practitioners and you mentioned um the word luxury in your pitch yes how much does this cost
05:08so retail price of that bag is 300 pounds 300 pounds yes wow wow oh wow has it got gucci
05:16on the side
05:16or it does have a lot of detailing it has and details on all of the metal work the sets
05:22it has
05:23a feet on the bottom of the bag i think if you were a doctor you'd have something like that
05:28wouldn't
05:28you i can see you with this i mean it's gorgeous and you can thank you really high quality so
05:36what do you think i think they're lovely i think i mean and when you look inside
05:41i think the design is lovely i mean there's a lot of work it goes into there there is a
05:45lot of
05:45i mean it's a high price point it is but when you look at the bag i can understand how
05:51the cost how
05:51much they're costing you to make this one for example that one for example would cost 73 pounds
05:56to make so that that cost 73 yeah what does that sell for 275 275 275 yeah and are you
06:03selling the
06:04direct to consumer i am i have had some interest from a retailer and they've bought 58 bags from me
06:11and they
06:11ordered a few more um like two weeks ago and how how many is a few more oh only three
06:17more
06:18they sold out okay so they're selling a bit yeah they're not absolutely flying off the shelves
06:23i've got to say catherine that the product is great quality i mean i i mean i had one but
06:28it's been taken by dr bartlett but no but i think the quality of it is fantastic thank you so
06:36at the
06:36start of the business i wanted to make sure that i established my brand um being a very high quality
06:43product and hopefully in the future um if we are able to continue with another brand then we can
06:50seek factories to get the bags at a lower cost you said to peter something there which was quite
06:56curious you said if we're able to continue yes what do you mean by continue do you mean the business
07:00continue no no i just i just mean when we go into a second a second round of production then
07:06it would
07:07be great to be able to source the bags at a at a lower cost at this point um we
07:15have a lot of stock
07:16i i bought 1900 bags because i went for the style and the colors yes so i have um 1550
07:27bags left so if
07:30we're able to sell them which hopefully we will be then we can make 465 000 pounds from that in
07:38which
07:38case we will definitely be able to continue and look for new markets how much have you invested in this
07:44business so far i've actually invested over 400 000 pounds of my own money into it for 400 000 pounds
07:52yes where did you get the 400 000 pounds from my uncle died in covid okay sorry to hear okay
08:00sorry
08:01you've produced a beautiful stunning product off the back of that so it's not it's not an investment
08:06wasted in that regard um it is tough it is tough because i've been in this space before and i
08:13spent a
08:13lot of time working in the marketing side of this space but also we had a business come into the
08:18den a couple of years ago um who was selling these designer bags made here in manchester right um tough
08:24yes tough from from all sides um
08:33a little bit too tough for me that's fine so i understand i'm gonna say that i'm out but thank
08:37you so much and i'm gonna pay for that bag thank you stephen thank you dr catherine i actually worry
08:46that you're so focused on the gps that you're missing a massive market okay because i wouldn't
08:56if you look at the inside of this it just does what i want it to do great it doesn't
09:00just do what
09:01the doctor you you want it to do you know it's a lovely looking bag it's got somewhere for my
09:05laptop
09:05i can put all of my toiletries in there and i can put oh it's look it's really nice now
09:11that doesn't
09:12stop the whole market being very difficult as steven's alluded to you know but you do need to
09:19find a wider market okay and i suspect that if you can just find those platforms you will sell enough
09:26of the goods to do the thing that i actually do think worries you because i think when it came
09:31out
09:31to steven saying if we can continue there is something in the back of your head that's worrying
09:37you that if i don't sell these it isn't i can't i can't keep putting more money in that's you
09:43know
09:43you four hundred thousand pound that is a lot of i know i know um but i absolutely love what
09:49you're
09:49doing but i won't be investing that's okay debra thank you catherine you know what i think if you came
09:57here today with a wider story of how this bag is a multi-functional bag for the everyday working woman
10:07i think you'd have very different responses from the dragons and i think there's a lot of work you
10:13would need to put into this to just shift the stock and i'm not passionate about it enough to kind
10:21of
10:21drive this with you so i'm so sorry catherine for that reason i'm out you are very brave 400 000
10:32pound investment in this business you are a real entrepreneur and brave having looked at this and
10:42saying and heard what you said your pitch limits the amount of turnover you can actually do with
10:5128 000 potential customers for that reason i don't see that's an investment for me in the
10:57short term so i'm out thank you and and catherine i think you've clearly got a problem you can't sell
11:03the volume can you yes right so to be able to sell the volume you'd be better off to do
11:07something with
11:08a specific retailer that sells luggage and provide that product on a consignment basis to them okay and
11:14allow them to do what they do best which is target their customers and sell your product and take a
11:18percentage rather than anything else yeah there's you there's your route okay look i i i i think this
11:24is really tough i really hope that you can actually get out of the stock by partnering with somebody
11:30thank you um but it's not an investment for me i'm gonna say that i'm out thank you thank you
11:37so
11:37much thank you thank you thank you thank you so much bye-bye katherine hoped her doctor's bag would
11:44be just what the dragons ordered but its niche appeal didn't get their pulses racing and she leaves the
11:52den without a deal although the dragons didn't invest they absolutely loved the designs and the quality of
11:59the bags but it's just too small a market for them it's crazy how one sentence if we are able
12:05to continue
12:06tells the complete story of where she's at in her head she's lacking the confidence isn't she yeah
12:10i'm having it anyway can i have that bag no you can't have you're not going to mind no you're
12:16not having
12:16that i'm still very passionate about my company and this is definitely not the age of ayasi
12:37i'm ben mcguerr i'm the owner of campo and we are on a mission to redefine food waste by allowing
12:43people to conveniently dispose of their food waste in one touch composter must be a composter must be
12:50a company what a load of rubbish you're on fire with your puns peter oh the fresh take you have
12:57on peter's pants i think you're great susie the dragons all have strengths that directly align with
13:08compo i think deborah though is the standout for her history of sustainable and eco projects
13:25hello dragons my name is ben and today i'm here to ask for 86 000 pound in exchange for 20
13:32of my company
13:35combo i'm sure that you all dispose of your food waste in a variety of different ways some of you
13:40will take the time to compost your food waste some of you let the council deal with the disposal part
13:46of it however some of you may simply throw your food waste into the black bin and simply forget about
13:52it when food is left to rot in landfill conditions a harmful byproduct called methane is produced methane
13:59methane is a powerful greenhouse gas which is 28 times more potent than co2 but we can take steps to
14:07reduce its impact on the environment combo is a sleek alternative to food disposal you simply place your food
14:15waste in this unit press one button and in five to eight hours you are left with a dried reduced
14:27volume
14:28biodegradable mix which is kinder to the planet for some numbers to date we have received over 103 000
14:38euro in pre-orders and that is with a gross profit of 64 500 euro and a slight net loss
14:46of six and a half
14:46thousand euro now with your investment we are planning to heavily invest in our stock and our marketing
14:54expansion and with this we predict that we'll be profitable by q4 i'd love to show you around and
15:01any questions you might have as well can we come up and see yes come on up
15:07a machine to break down food waste quickly and efficiently in the home i'd like to smell it yeah
15:13of course is the offering from ben mcguerr so is this a prototype so this is a finalized unit and
15:21we
15:21ran it today and this is it's actually still quite warm from today so um so this is working this
15:26is
15:26yes this this is what came out of this one today the eco-conscious entrepreneur is asking for 86 000
15:33pounds in return for a 20 stake in the business that's nice that looks like the stuff you put out
15:39of
15:39a plug the dragons seem to be enjoying getting their hands dirty is it squishy but with a passion for
15:46all things green deborah meaden wants to dig deeper ben thank you um so we actually we compost virtually
15:58either it goes to our animals or we compost everything there is nothing in our house that
16:02doesn't get composted and there's lovely juices that come off and they're actually they are lovely
16:08if you're a gardener because they're you know you can you can do something with them so what i was
16:13saying how dry but i'm going to ask a slightly different question yeah what can i use that for
16:18so it is a biodegradable mix simply mix it in with compost if you have it um so you're probably
16:23thinking well if i don't have compost what am i meant to do with it um so you can mix
16:27it with
16:27anything you have like potting soil so if i wanted to essentially let's say repot this plant
16:32into a larger pot rather than having to use additional soil i could mix this in and essentially
16:38the nutrients and what if i don't want to do any of that so i'm doing it because i've got
16:43a massive
16:43pile of peelings over here yeah and this reduces the waste and the smell yes um now hear me out
16:50this
16:50may sound very counterproductive you can bin it um and i know that that sounds really counterproductive
16:57it does and i'll tell you why it's not um so if it was a scenario where you had to
17:01put it into a
17:02black thin descent to landfill um a lot of essentially when food waste fresh food waste has
17:08around 70 to 90 percent moisture content that is really where the um the methane producing bacteria
17:16likes to feed on um so essentially you're lowering the reactivity of that material in a landfill to
17:23produce methane and you're also greatly reducing its volume ben um did you develop this machine
17:29so when i moved in with my girlfriend into a apartment um we had a food bin which was less
17:37than pleasant so i actually went looking for a solution um there was any amounts of fancy bins and
17:43different things that we've seen so there is product similar however their price point was a little bit
17:48less than desirable so i went to a manufacturer and see if we could develop something at a much lower
17:53price point um which had uh basically all the convenient features of the ones that i seen on
17:59the market that day so how much is your product so it retails for 249 pound where is it made
18:05in china
18:08so this is an existing product that you've taken the branding of or have you changed anything about
18:15what the manufacturer has already made so the initial prototype the manufacturer sent me was single
18:22add a single filter in it uh we worked i worked with them to get an upgraded version essentially um
18:27but
18:27the actual development of the product is done by by the supplier yeah so anyone could go and buy this
18:34product yeah so we have been working with them to get exclusivity and uh they said that they will open
18:43those conversations at around the 4 000 unit a month mark which we are not there at the moment
18:50and um this is a this is a very immediately it's it sort of alarm bells i think the fact
18:56that you
18:57don't own any of this that's really really worrying because for this to become truly valuable you need to
19:04own the ip ultimately something similar or a pattern you need to have something of value so is there anything
19:10you can give me that gives you the confidence to be able to do a deal rather than become a
19:15distributor of
19:16a product yeah because that's ultimately what you are today yeah so i think in terms of the the branding
19:23and marketing is where we want to try and retain some of that um market uniqueness uh i've got trademarks
19:30launched in the uk and ireland i know that's not a product ip that you're that you're looking for but
19:35it is some protection that we have around the brand as a whole um yeah what's the brand compo yeah
19:41yeah so
19:42it could be a football yeah even if you did have ip people will still find a way to copy
19:47so i don't
19:48think having ip in this day and age is that much of a big deal yeah because there's always ways
19:54around
19:54it yeah i think like i i do obviously the ip is something that was a you know in my
19:59head today to
19:59to counteract um i think like it's important and i understand but um no it's a big it's a it's
20:06it's
20:06fundamental yeah especially for acquisitions if you if you want to build a business a proper business
20:11yeah you need the ip yeah if you just want to be a salesman then you don't need ip
20:19i don't think it's the be all or there are some businesses that actually don't need ip and people
20:26come in here with ip and i say that's lovely but that really isn't worth anything because there's a
20:32thousand ways of achieving that exactly so i think i think it's not the be all and end all
20:37but i'm i'm gonna tell you where i am 249 pounds yeah would i buy one why would i buy
20:47one well
20:49the trouble is it doesn't do the whole job when you said to me i might have to take because
20:56i've
20:57got nothing else to do with it i've got to take that and i've got to put that in landfill
20:59that might
21:01be better but i want to know that i'm doing the right thing i don't want to know that i'm
21:05doing
21:0680 70 or 80 billion to the right thing i want to know if i'm going to spend 249 pounds
21:11it solves that
21:12particular problem um so it's just you know i'm looking for slam dunk and you didn't give it to me
21:19so i'm really sorry i won't be investing i'm out very nice
21:41so i'm gonna say that i'm out but well done good luck ben yes you are an entrepreneur at heart
21:50and
21:51it's so clear abundantly clear to me that you're going to figure it out whether it's this or
21:54something else so if i could invest in you that would be a great bet but for me the ip
22:02thing is
22:03the sticking point it really is so um i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the
22:08very best ben
22:08thanks david okay then i'm going to tell you what i said you have not convinced me that this
22:21business is investable you are but not this business so i'm not going to give you my 86 000
22:28pound today however if ever you find yourself in london you're looking for a job you've got one okay
22:37i'll keep that in mind so i'm not going to invest today i'm out
22:44then i think you're a great entrepreneur i love that you're thinking about something that for me
22:50is a really attractive product so i would actually buy this because currently i have a compost bin
22:55that sits on my kitchen countertop that is gathering fruit flies every time i open it there
22:59are fruit like literally fruit flies coming out of it in my face yeah um and then i put the
23:04bin out
23:05and then the foxes get to it yeah so absolutely i would be buying one of these and i don't
23:10believe
23:10that you have to have an ip in order for you to be successful what is your vision for the
23:16long term
23:17like where do you see this going uh in i suppose the the real answer is in every home that
23:25someone has
23:26for their food waste uh ideally the vision is to eradicate food waste from landfills um and to give
23:32everyone the opportunity to to sustainably dispose of their food waste um that is the vision and i do
23:38want this to be in in every home as standard i love that ben i love that your vision for
23:44the future
23:44wasn't i want to sell x amount in x countries it was about eradicating food waste and landfills and that's
23:52that speaks to the heart and that's that's really amazing um ben i am going to make you an offer
24:00because i feel like i could come with you to china and negotiate better prices i think we can tweak
24:08some parts of the machinery and we can make this have a competitive edge against all the other brands
24:14out there and also undercut them and i could help you promote this um but i would like a higher
24:24equity
24:26so you asked for 86 000 pounds for 20 percent so i will offer you all of the money i
24:33would like 40 percent
24:34and equity have a think about it um so i i think that a lot of what you have to
24:50offer is definitely
24:51something that i'm missing um i would love though to meet somewhere closer to the middle um and could you
25:01meet me at 32. i respect you coming back with an alternative 35. i'll go 35 yeah 35 it is
25:20success for ben let's get the whole nation composting at home yes well done ben well done
25:29he's won the backing of a dragon with the potential to help his food waste contraption
25:35rise to the top of the heap wow yeah obviously delighted to have ceasy on board so i think that
25:43should bring a lot to the business that i'm not able to i thought he was amazing genuinely i really
25:48really liked him and i think regardless of what happened i want to be in business with that guy yeah
25:52that one that one definitely isn't rubbish don't encourage him the investment really does validate
26:00that there may be something there that susie sees in me not just in the business i'm gonna go get
26:05some
26:06food and celebrate with a point and uh i'm excited for the future
26:23my name's helen and this is my husband phil and we're from witness in cheshire
26:31it's a challenge working with wife and being with your wife 24 hours a day um but we've made it
26:39work
26:40over time oh good luck he asks for his lunch every day still i don't ask for my lunch
26:52my stomach just churn then it is very nerve-wracking
26:59but we've practiced and we really want this so bring it on
27:07so
27:16hi dragons i'm phil lord and i'm helen lord we are the founders of rehome the kitchen bedroom bathroom
27:23outlet and we are seeking a hundred thousand pound for five percent equity in our business
27:29we wanted to bring to you a new way to buy a kitchen one that literally doesn't cost the earth
27:37when we purchased our current home we needed a new kitchen and we really didn't have a large budget
27:43so we decided to see whether pre-loved could be a good option for us after what can only be
27:49described
27:49as a long and challenging journey to online marketplaces we paid five thousand pounds for a beautiful
27:57big kitchen that would have cost considerably more if it had been purchased new that's when we thought
28:03if more people knew this was possible and had more help to do it they too might consider it too
28:10so over the last 10 years we've developed our online supported marketplace for buying and selling
28:17pre-owned kitchens bedrooms and bathrooms re-home is b corp certified and we have saved to date 14 000
28:27tons of carbon waste and we're now looking for the support of a dragon to help us
28:33make re-home the go-to verb that people use when renovating their home
28:40an online marketplace for second-hand kitchens bathrooms and bedrooms intended to be easy on both
28:47pockets and the planet is the proposition from phil and helen lord so we thought we'd show you some
28:54examples because pre-owned is a bit of a mystery when it comes to uh kitchens the couple are seeking
29:01100 000 pounds so this kitchen sold at just over 13 000 in return for a five percent share in
29:10their
29:10business but we do estimate if that kitchen was purchased new today that would cost in excess of
29:1635 000 pounds and this is the purchaser's uh results so as you can see it's been completely reconfigured
29:26into a different space phil and helen might be capable of cooking up a dream kitchen for their
29:33customers but how will they handle a potential grilling in the den
29:42phil and helen um yes hi hi so at the moment i get it right you are a marketplace correct
29:48and you
29:49take a commission based on sales correct and you have no stock correct except except for appliances
29:55where we do own the the appliances as a dropship model yep so um what percent do you charge
30:03commission so our commission for pre-owned is uh 30 percent plus yeah okay so how long you've been doing
30:11this um we incorporated 10 years ago 10 10 years ago yeah but um i first brought the business to
30:20market
30:21two years before that wow so give us some numbers for the last three years okay our financials uh for
30:3022 23
30:31yep uh turnover was two million uh we had a gross profit of 1.2 million yep and a net
30:38profit of 450 000.
30:40yep in 23 24 we had turnover of 1.3 million gross profit of 640 000 and a net loss
30:49of 515 000.
30:51net loss yes tuca a net loss of 515 000. in 24 25 turnover of 1.8 million yeah our
31:02gross profit was 1.2 million
31:04yep and we were net break even and our forecast for this year is 2.5 million turnover 1.6
31:12million gross profit
31:13and net break even again right so somewhere you're spending money yeah well where's the money going so in
31:24in 23 24 we completely changed uh brand and developed a new website and we went to market
31:33with that in 23 hence why we had the loss did you have some sort of consultant to help you
31:38do that
31:39we did we did we had we did what was going on what was wrong with the business in your
31:44eyes that made
31:45you pivot and spend nearly the best part of a million pounds so the original website it had
31:52plasters bolt-ons you know it was it was a monster right um and then the opportunity for e-commerce
32:00um really did come to the fore um for things like appliances smaller items that didn't require
32:09consultative sale didn't you consider something like shopify or something like that it it wasn't
32:15recommended to us amazing now you don't make as much money as a consultant if you recommend
32:21effective solutions it is it is a key learn um helen phil so i actually just want to pick up
32:28on some
32:29numbers because you're still spending one between 1.2 and 1.6 million so what are the answers in the
32:36next two years as why you're spending that much money um we're spending the money because we realize
32:41we still need to improve our customer experience and our technology how far are you down that journey
32:47because you've now spent nearly four we spent four million pounds on your website or or on developing
32:54this no we've only spent on the on the website probably around 800 000 including consultancy which
33:00is still quite a lot oh right so there's 3.2 million that you are spending you you're spending every
33:07year 1.2 million to 1.6 yeah our overhead so we've got uh wage costs marketing costs um you
33:15know cost for
33:15running the business okay so explain to me the rest of your overheads yeah so our marketing costs um
33:23uh per annum are approximately four hundred thousand and um so we've got wage costs of around um 200 to
33:30three hundred thousand okay well that's seven hundred thousand that's that's less than a half what we also
33:40have is um uh uh the cost for running the uh the website the the licensing fees etc there's about
33:47hundred thousand there oh my lord i feel i feel i feel what peter feels now i'll come and cry
33:57on your
33:58shoulder later 100 000 monitoring fees who's charging you 100 000 so that's 100 000 uh for the year to
34:09do
34:09what that is an absolute fortune you've spent 800 000 on a website with ongoing inbuilt ongoing
34:18costs of a hundred thousand pound a year these were experts that advised us to do that of course they
34:24were so we've got the website we've got a hundred thousand pound a year we're still less than half of
34:30the cost of the business so what else are we spending money on we've got consultancy fees as well oh
34:35my
34:35goodness who else are you paying so we've got a marketing consultant that is uh full-time how
34:42much um about 90 000 just on the marketing we spend on advertising we spend you know it's obviously
34:51there's a lot of marketing costs at the end of the day associated with the business that's brilliant and
34:56and it's lovely to see you committing resource to marketing but my goodness do you know i feel like
35:02i feel like you are really good and you're paying other people to kind of knock you off course yeah
35:09and actually last year was when we realized that and we made some quite sweeping changes because
35:18it could have been a lot worse than it was
35:24phil and helen you've got a big issue here in my opinion um and i if you don't mind me
35:30saying
35:30in a nice way i think the big issue is you okay i've got a great business on the outset
35:35real
35:36excitement when i first heard it yeah what we've ensued over the last period of time of talking about
35:41this business we've made this business in my opinion completely non-investable it's almost
35:48impossible to invest in a business like this when you're running it so badly
35:55so for that reason sadly i'm out thank you peter phil helen um you've done a remarkable thing and you
36:04know the fact remains that you've managed to build a business that's turning over millions of pounds
36:09every single year so there's clearly some decisions that have been made correctly but um as an investor
36:15my my risk appetite isn't quite there for this business so i'm going to say that i'm out but i
36:20wish you the best
36:22thank you do you know i i can really understand where you struggle because i've been exactly there
36:28i have made so many mistakes in my business and in my opinion it's how you react to those things
36:37it's
36:37how you evolve it's how you learn from those things that's what's important um but unfortunately
36:45for me this is not an area that i'm passionate about and i don't think i'm the right driving for
36:49you guys so for that reason i'm out thank you appreciate it look i think you've done a great job
37:01but you've got you've been going for 10 years 10 years is a long time and i don't believe that
37:07after 10
37:08years you've got room for an investor so for that reason i'm out okay thank you tuka
37:18um
37:21i love so much about this and i i really like the both of you as well i do like
37:27your honesty and
37:28you've built something amazing here i'm not out yet by the way but i do want to hear something
37:34how are you going to make money because at the moment you're growing revenue yeah but what changes
37:45to turn this revenue growth into profit so i think when we did the transformation we um had an
37:54infrastructure cost that was a baseline now what we need to do is we need to accelerate our sales
37:59growth because we're only working at probably 50 efficiency in terms of our cost base so we can
38:05probably double our sales and and not have to increase our costs at the same rate and the proven
38:11experience expertise that you guys have i think you would provide that mentorship and guidance to make
38:17sure that you know we're following the right tracks oh this this is difficult because i totally i
38:24do worry about your decision making processes and honestly if i got involved i can't run your
38:31business i can be there for the big moments but i can't help you on a day-to-day decision
38:37making
38:37process i appreciate that but we are making decisions lots of them every single day these few decisions
38:46that have been absolutely pivotal were technically two decisions out of multiple so big ones though
38:55agreed but you know not not to provide excuses we thought we had gone down the right route we genuinely
39:04did think that was the right thing to do and guys okay okay okay okay okay okay um i love
39:13this so much
39:14and i like you so much i'm going to make you an offer we haven't heard it yet hide your
39:21cards just
39:21put your hands behind your back um i i so i know how i can help you however you need
39:30more help than
39:31you think you need but i do believe that we can turn this into a profitable business and got ahead
39:36of
39:36the market you asked for a hundred thousand pound for five percent so i'm going to offer you all the
39:44money but i want 15 of the business okay thank you deborah
39:54we appreciate all your comments today and uh deborah thank you very much for the offer
40:00um we're willing to accept oh excellent good good well done great great a perfect ending for phil
40:11and helen who've secured a hundred thousand pounds oh yeah i didn't expect that as well as the backing
40:22of a dragon with the business nows to help balance the books deborah day one you go through the pier
40:28now
40:28you strip out all the consultants and retainers and you've got 500k profit you pay a dividend you've
40:34got your money back i'm so happy boy boy do they need you as you'll have seen there was some
40:41quite
40:41honest opinions and then deborah came right in at the end saving the day so i'm absolutely delighted
40:48that uh she's agreed to come on board and help us
41:04i'm gordon leatherdale and my business operates two fantastic consumer brands one is for dogs one is
41:10for humans oh my god it confuses everyone to be blunt about it including me sometimes dog makery
41:20there's dog and then there's gin and then there's chai tea this is going to be ridiculous i just know
41:28it's going to be ridiculous a lot of things as i step out of the lift i'll be thinking about
41:35being in the jaws of jaws it's the terror of getting things wrong i think as much as anything else
41:40but i will have to wait and see what the dragons think
41:53good evening dragons my name's gordon and i'm the founder of a business that operates two
41:57fantastic consumer brands and i'm here today seeking a hundred thousand pounds
42:01uh for ten percent of the equity of the business what do we do well brand one if you like
42:07natural
42:08noble is all about exploring flavor many people as you'll probably know are accustomed to and very
42:12comfortable with creating their own food their own dishes from scratch and so on and so forth and we
42:17say why not extend that imply that to making your own drinks and drink flavors at home that's where we
42:23step in with our fantastic range of make your own drink kits easy to use they range from sets of
42:30botanicals and ingredients you infuse in liquor we have a range of cocktail making kits and a range of
42:36if you like novel infusion bags to bring consumers flavors they wouldn't otherwise try and the products
42:42are suitable for those who drink alcohol and those who don't the second brand is called dog by the hob
42:48it's a fantastic range of dog cookie making kits and accounts for about 11 of our sales
42:55drugs that ends my pitch i'm not looking forward to your questions but i'm here now
43:01um that's it would you like to try some products we created earlier good you can smile now thank you
43:06very much that's terrifying but uh thank you you did great you did great we'd love to try your
43:12product all right thank you very much a selection of products for flavoring drinks
43:19and a kit for making canine friendly cookies comprise the eclectic offering from gordon leatherdale
43:27so there's an espresso martini on your left it's an alcohol one that is alcohol
43:31what's that one uh it's a cocoa vanilla chai gordon is seeking 100 000 pounds if you look onto your
43:39chair you'll see a range of products you can try to try the dog cookies if you want but you
43:43may choose
43:44not to in exchange for a 10 share in his business what do i do with this they're the more
43:51involved
43:51kits steven and you use those basically to to infuse uh larger quantities of cheap gin or vodka
43:57basically their curiosity may have been peaked that's nice so this is a tea bag yeah that's right
44:04so it's pudding flavor tea right um so all the all the character and flavor of cake with no calories
44:11but will the dragon's cash prove as easy to raise as their initial interest
44:21gordon hi hello um i love all these different novel products um really fun really giftable help
44:28help us understand the connection between flavoring your gin flavoring your tea
44:34but then dog cookie kit yeah i i this is a question i knew that somebody was going to ask
44:39it if not
44:39everyone to explain the the way the business works we had a big i hate to use word boom but
44:44during
44:44covid of course online sales were very strong and i was sat there terrified we just moved into new
44:49premises and so on and so forth and i thought well what the hell do we do when you know
44:54internet sales
44:55drop off i suppose i got paranoid and slightly frightened that we the business was going to take
44:59be taken out taken from under our feet as it were so as a group of people we just had
45:04a chat and thought
45:05we all own dogs uh and we all thought well we'll come up with this idea and just see what
45:09happens
45:10so it's really a question of i suppose you could call desperation more than anything else
45:15so so you started this brand the dog biscuit brand because you thought this was going to fail
45:21and has it failed no i thought this well i thought there was a possibility of failure or
45:27failure or a massive reduction in turnover and you'll see from our figures uh later i'm sure one of you
45:32will ask that we saw a big deterioration tell us your figures sure fine in 2019 we turned over 150
45:38000 pounds
45:40in 2020 we turned over 560 000 pounds in 2021 we turned over 580 000 and in 2022 our turnover
45:52dropped to 387 000
45:56in 2023 it was 535 000 turnover and last year we turned the turnover is at 617 000 pounds
46:05and the net somewhere north of 50 000 pounds okay so looking at these numbers it tells me that it
46:11looks like 2020 the covert year was the big boost to your business but i can also see that you
46:17went down
46:18a bit in 2022 when lockdown was over but you bounced back up again yes is that when the dog
46:23biscuits were
46:23launched yeah i mean it was at the same time but the dog kits only so for instance last year
46:28we did 68 000
46:29pounds of the docket's what that 11 of the turnover so it's still a very small part of the bit
46:33of the
46:34business i don't know if i'm answering your question properly mr marion sorry i'm just trying to
46:38understand i'm still trying to understand why dog biscuits because your your business is doing all
46:42right you're i i can i i can't disagree with that at all to be honest mrs marg yeah we
46:48see demand
46:49you can call me susie by the way yeah sorry susie i do apologize it's a it's something i think
46:53about
46:53pretty much every day i want to keep it because i enjoy it but our focus i think has to
46:59be on the the
47:00natural noble side side of things and one of the marketplaces we were selling on doing this you
47:04don't you don't you don't have a cigar on it but i'm quite i can get you a rollie if
47:09you want one
47:10i'm sure we can um where's your accent from because you're saying these terms somewhat and so forth
47:17they're so that's not accent what is it it's just it's very that's just his education where did you go
47:23school i went to a place called kings in in taunton in somerset right yeah give me six
47:30i know kings very well right oh yeah it's a great place great for rugby i was born in
47:35taunton oh were you yes i was born so you must have played against wellington oh that's right yeah
47:40how old are you um do i really have to yes you do i'm uh i'm 48 i've just turned
47:46i only asked
47:47because my husband was at wellington school checking whether or not he played rugby would i
47:50say it against him uh he's fifth no he's 50s 58 isn't he oh deborah i think i think your
47:59husband is
47:5958 isn't he deborah i don't know how old he is no one knows 60 okay yes he is 60
48:07he was 60 last
48:08year okay yeah well we always used to come away from wellington normally with a couple of black eyes
48:12and so they were ferocious they were they were hard so-and-sos they were good though they're very good
48:17yeah yeah i know anyway sorry um i don't know who i interrupted there but is anybody else mid-flow
48:24or shall i carry on um i'm half pissed so what do you want for this business where's where's the
48:33growth is it more of the same or do you see that you've got a sort of hero product here
48:40and you're
48:40going to build on to it goodness that's a that's that's a great sorry that's a fantastic question um
48:50i think more of the same because i think there's still great opportunity to grow our brand in new
48:57channels and i think particularly with our if you like larger sets because i think they look they're
49:01much more of a retail proposition i think than a online proposition and what is your hero product which
49:07what you know there's usually an outstanding one sure it's the gin and the rum and have you ever
49:13done collaborations with people like the craft gin club or that have you ever worked to get more
49:20exposure with uh the the honest answer is no we get the odd occasion we had an interesting
49:24conversation with the natural history museum they wanted to kind of us to do a marry-up as it were
49:29regarding all the botanicals so but then beyond that no we haven't done any other sort of
49:34collaborations we do get asked from time to time but and are these coming to you or you are you
49:38going
49:39to get them uh they they come to us and we're working on a project now actually which this will
49:44it's about 1500 pudding teas that will go into a goodie bag for some event somewhere in either london
49:49or birmingham next month i i'm trying to pinpoint a where it is yes where that's coming from and where
49:58it
49:58can go understood and it and it feels a little bit like at the moment like you're you're here you've
50:03got this lovely product and people sort of accidentally find you correct yes which might
50:07be why you struggle when i say where do you want this to go yes because i'm not sure you're
50:12clear yet
50:12are you no i'm much clearer than i than i used to be now i i i'm quite pleased with
50:18the fact we've
50:18navigated the last three years but i have a much clearer vision for the business and that is about
50:22selling product to consumers that's that's that's the the route i want to take whatever we can get
50:28ancillary to that would be fantastic but i just want to make that clear
50:33gordon um just picking up on what deborah said that i it's um it's a confusing picture okay and it
50:41left me feeling like maybe you're not really driving this business maybe the business is kind of driving
50:47you because it doesn't seem to be be that there's much intentional strategy taking place here
50:54what do you want to push i want to push the larger botanical sets yeah i want to push these
50:59products
50:59here there's a range of whatever it is seven of them which there's like some coffee thing there as
51:03well yeah this is a flavors for coffee bag which is just used and that's something i really want to
51:06push to my mind it looks like it looks like a slightly different brand to the other products
51:12yeah we've intentionally done that the reason is i really want to focus on retail with this product
51:16i want it to stand out on the shelves as the pictures gone on and on the the sort of
51:21mosaic
51:21that's emerged here is you bring a product to market and then because maybe there's fear surrounding
51:26that new product or it doesn't fly or it doesn't take off you start a new product and that's how
51:30we
51:30end up selling dog cakes there's there's more than a limited truth in that stephen for sure yeah
51:35i'm gonna pull the i'm gonna pull the plaster off i i like you so much as an individual and
51:40as
51:40man that i've i've i've struggled to say what i want to what i'm gonna say um because i just
51:45think
51:46you're a really really top guy but i'm gonna say that i'm out because um i just i don't have
51:50clarity
51:51on this business and i've not been able i've actually got the more and more we've discussed
51:54it i've got less clarity okay thank you very much anyway
51:59good um i look at this and normally i'd look at an investment yeah i'd have a plan in my
52:07head
52:08but this just looks confusing so for that reason i wish you all the best of them out
52:17well thank you very much indeed for your time
52:24gordon i'm i'm looking at you and i think that you are a fantastic product innovator you know what i
52:30actually see here is you've created one two three four five different businesses but my advice would
52:37be to pick the one and and just be obsessed with it because when you do a bit of everything
52:44and you've
52:44got brilliant ideas but when you start something and you take it to a level everyone else can come in
52:51and copy it because you're not constantly obsessing over how to improve it how to tweak it how to make
52:56it
52:56better um i'm afraid i'm i'm not the right dragon for you to take this forward because there are too
53:02many components and too many things going on and for that reason i'm out
53:09i couldn't agree less with suzy oh really i couldn't agree less you have got one product
53:15your product is spice mixes he sells flavors that go into drinks that's what you got
53:23but i think you've just got to get on top of your branding and you probably need to tighten your
53:28range up a little bit but i think you have to have this right you have to be known for
53:32something
53:33and it's there's not one product there that is that you can own what you can do is own the
53:38space and
53:39just be the best in that space now there's a reason why i i because i'm getting very passionate about
53:46this and i you know i i i can see exactly what you need to do i wish you hadn't
53:50asked for a hundred
53:51thousand pounds because a hundred thousand pound is a significant sum of money and it is a considered
53:58investment yes and when i think about what i would have to do to help you yeah there's an awful
54:03lot to
54:04do i think you could share it sorry i think you could share it
54:11i think there's an opportunity there might have to give up a large proportion of your company
54:18but then you might not have a business here
54:23can i ask what you're thinking uh peter i think deborah's spot on you are a drinks luxury drinks
54:28infusion company i think with very considered thought very actually not as much work as you think i think
54:37you could have a great business because i think that we could make this the leading company in its
54:43field so i would like to make you an offer you came in asking for a hundred thousand pounds for
54:50ten
54:51percent i'd like to offer you fifty thousand pounds yeah for twenty percent of your business
54:58and i'm doing that on the basis that if deborah would like to do the same because it was me
55:02that
55:03stopped deborah understood yep i mean sorry deborah can i ask would you be interested in in joining
55:10peter in this i would as long as you were happy with that
55:22well i'd be i i'd be blunt about it i my accountant told me i was being uh what's he
55:27very generous when i started i mean i'd much rather part with i'd be much more comfortable
55:31parting with twenty percent if you'd be happy to take a ten percent each for fifty thousand pounds
55:36now it's it's do you know what's really scuppered you it's the hundred thousand pounds okay yeah i
55:40mean i you know i i'm not sure i want you to give up forty percent of your business so
55:44so and that's
55:45really really important so absolutely i'll be happy but only when it feels right for you and if it
55:51feels right for you and if you if it doesn't then absolutely you shouldn't take it except the offer
55:56i've got to be honest i think i think forty percent would be would be too much i
56:01this sounds like a ridiculous question and you can take me behind the bike chairs and beat the
56:06beat the hell out of me later but i'd be much more comfortable i think i would stretch to 30
56:10if that was if that was workable for either of yourselves gordon i'm going to make this easier
56:17you are uncomfortable about this and it's not good we're just not sometimes understood it just
56:25doesn't meet and the worst thing anybody can do is get into a business relationship where one of the
56:31parties feels really uncomfortable so on that basis i won't be investing and i'm out thank you very much
56:36indeed and gordon likewise on that basis sadly i'm going to have to say that i'm out but i'm going
56:42to
56:43wish you all the very best thank you very much good luck gordon thank you it's been a great
56:46wonderful yeah thank you very much you're a lovely man thank you see you best of luck
56:52gordon must depart the den empty-handed a two dragon deal was on the table but the entrepreneur felt the
57:01gulf inequity was simply too wide to bridge
57:07you know what i wanted to shake him quintessentially a british gentleman yes but the opportunity and the
57:14doors the two of you would have opened for him even at 40 percent i wanted to go out but
57:18just be like
57:19come on he didn't feel it and and the worst thing you can do yeah is is is having an
57:25unwilling partner
57:26it would have been amazing to have uh peter and deborah on board but i think ultimately giving
57:33away 40 percent of the business was just was was too much to uh to ask right rightly or wrongly
57:38and i'll find out in a few years time
57:50next time they seemed in shock oh please please i'm not the biggest fan in the world of the deals
57:58that that drop i'm like why why like i still need to understand why it's good to know you have
58:04a plan b
58:04you should always have a plan b do you agree with that because i don't he agrees with it i
58:10can't work
58:11out whether you're looking for an investment you're or you're looking for a dragon to dress up as a
58:15chicken uh a bit of both
58:17so
58:20so
58:45you