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00:12they didn't start out as killers they were stick-up artists professional shoplifters
00:20pickpockets and stand-over guys the bottom rungs of the Melbourne underworld ladder
00:27but somewhere along the line it all changed when the underworld needed contract killers
00:34they signed up without hesitation there are five million stories in the naked city this is one of
00:52them it was a very very clinical clean execution of two people in their own home it wasn't committed
01:01by the people that we'd been tracking so closely they weren't part of this murder so who was pillows
01:08had been placed over their heads to muffle the shots from the heavy caliber handgun you know in
01:13its own way it was bizarre we didn't know what the target was we're talking about armed offenders
01:19serious armed robbers that's what they did for a living moving on to be hitman is just an extension
01:24of that because it's easy money for them pick up a gun take a contract out who do we know
01:30that would
01:31be able to provide the information we needed bow in prison goes into lockdown one thing you could
01:38say about tail Williams was he just knew so much the piranha task force has been digging for days we
01:46had
01:46an archaeologist with us cadaver dogs and we searched everywhere Carl Williams was the cornerstone of the
01:53case if Carl Williams is talking what is he going to say about me without Carl Williams there was no
02:01case
02:27I went through uniform general duties and I loved it in the late 70s early 80s most general duties
02:37police officers aspired to become detectives and I was I was one of those
02:45and I became exposed to the homicide squad detectives and I was just so impressed by them
02:54the way that they would turn up to a murder scene their professionalism and I watched them do their
03:03thing and that was probably what convinced me that this is what I wanted to do
03:17My name is Sarah Morse and I'm a detective inspector currently in charge of our human source management unit
03:22I worked with Sol Solomon at the petra task force and Sol was a great person to learn from we
03:30would
03:30travel around Victoria going to speak to older criminals and Sol would have a story for every
03:35town that we went through about you know particular murders he'd investigated in every town so it was
03:40always very interesting to work with soul secrets of the past had laid dormant until now Carl Williams the
03:56self-declared premier was behind bars he was serving life with a 35-year non-parole period a sentence made
04:04heavier
04:05by the fact that those once closest to him had turned witness in the end the code meant little they
04:13lined up to testify
04:15trading loyalty for leniency but Carl wasn't done if flipping worked for them he figured it might work for him
04:25too
04:25With Carl's information cold cases could be reopened leads revisited and missing pieces found providing critical breakthroughs in these mysteries
04:39of Melbourne's underworld
04:46Shit
04:55Terry Hodson.
04:56Terry was a larger than life character
05:00he was this big affable sort of a guy quick-witted liked to tell jokes
05:08he lived with his wife christine they had three children was well liked by people that knew him
05:17but he was a he was a major drug dealer a main player in the drug scene and he was
05:24also a
05:25prolific police informer for the drug squad he was playing both sides of the fence
05:37he was involved in the dublin street burglary a house where drugs were being manufactured
05:44it came under the notice of the drug squad they were watching it for quite some time
05:50terry hodson and another fellow broke in looking for money and drugs
05:57terry hodson's arrested at the scene after he was arrested for the burglary in dublin street
06:04he provided a statement to victoria police because some further information had
06:10come to light indicating that there was police involvement in it
06:18in that statement he nominated the two police members were behind the plant to
06:22burglary the house where the drugs were made paul dale was a detective sergeant at the drug squad
06:29part of his team was dave michell terence hodson had been a police informer for dave michell and paul
06:37dale all that information from terence hodson was contained in what was known as his informer file
06:44and his informer file had been stolen from the drug squad office where it was kept by paul dale and
06:50had
06:50been circulated throughout the criminal community simon overland is dealing with rats in his own
06:57ranks people sometimes let you down and that's what's happened here police say at least one officer
07:02is behind the leaks terence hodson had been exposed as a police informer which put his life at risk
07:12there were a large amount of people who knew that terence hodson had been providing information about
07:17them to the police which meant there was a large amount of people who had a motive to harm terence
07:22hodson criminals do inform other criminals but it's a highly risky business informing to police
07:33he was offered witness protection but he didn't he didn't want it terence and christine hodson were
07:41really committed to staying in their own home and didn't accept any help from the police about
07:44relocating or changing their names or moving interstate just didn't want to be part of it
07:53he took his chances
08:08we were called to a double murder in harp road q
08:15it was a very very clinical clean execution of two people in their own home
08:22they were both found lying side by side on their stomachs with their hands out in front of them
08:29and they'd both been executed by way of shots to the back of their head
08:40nothing was disturbed in the house no forced entry
08:46i realized that it would take a very very unique killer to be able to get himself into someone's home
08:55and i thought to myself well who who do we know that would be able of pulling a job off
09:06like that
09:17i recall a terrible double murder in 1987 a couple by the names of dorothy and raymond abbey
09:29raymond abbey was known to police for relatively minor matters and his wife dorothy was the homemaker
09:39they were murdered in their own home in the middle of the night by three people dressed up as police
09:48getting entry to the house by saying that they had a search warrant
09:53the abbey murders had taken place because abbey was suspected to have been an informant for the police
10:03pillows had been placed over their heads to muffle the sound of a number of shots
10:08from what police believe was a heavy caliber handgun both were in night attire and there was no sign of
10:14a
10:14struggle it was horrific but as it turned out they just never got the evidence
10:23looking at the nature of the hodsons and the abbeys nothing was disturbed in the house
10:31no forced entry and they'd both been executed the mo was so similar
10:39one day i was at home and i was reading the age and you'd written an article about rodney collins
10:48and i was reading through the article and as i'm reading through the article it suddenly dawned on me
10:59the word rodney collins rodney collins was a bit of an enigma very difficult to work out and someone
11:12that you should never turn your back on he clearly had the reputation as a gun for hire and would
11:18do it
11:19for money he had immense disliking of police but an absolute hatred of police informers rod collins is
11:28a person who only was interested in rod collins and what he could do to manipulate people around him
11:34i never felt at ease in his company i always felt as if he was trying to get into my
11:40head he was a
11:41cocky little man that's for sure and no fear at all he's a narcissist he believes he's the smartest
11:48person in the room he did not care about the suffering of another person he only cared about
11:53himself he has absolutely no sympathy or empathy for anything
12:07still to come in the naked city the execution of terence and christine hodson ties together police
12:15corruption and some of victoria's most infamous criminals carl williams is talking and some very
12:20serious criminals started to wonder am i at risk it may be the breakthrough that solves a 10 year old
12:28gangland murder mystery he's the only person that would be able to pull something off like that
12:33but have the nerve to do it that's what he wanted to do more than anything else he had a
12:38hatred of the
12:39police nobody frightened me in a courtroom until he did carl had started to talk and when carl talked
12:53detectives listened he was sitting on information that could rattle the foundations of
12:58several major investigations none more explosive than the murders of terence and christine hodson
13:08the hodsons were shot dead in their queue home both were shot twice at close range to the back of
13:14the
13:14head found face down in front of the couch terence hodson was due to give evidence against two former
13:20detectives before hodson was executed but the leafy eastern suburb of queue had more than one investigation
13:29on the go just down the road another case was being worked on from five months earlier and it too
13:36had
13:36carl's handiwork written all over it 62 year old career criminal graham allen kinember arrived at his home
13:43in belmont avenue queue just after midnight when he was shot several times graham kinner's murder was
13:50a significant escalation in the war he was one of the most respected criminals in melbourne he was part
13:57of the establishment and a good friend of mick ghetto graham kinner had been out shopping and was coming
14:03home and as he pulled up towards his house two gunmen emerged and shot him dead obviously saw the
14:12criminals coming at him and uh fired one shot before uh before they mowed him down it looked like a
14:19professional hit graham kinnerborough's murder was not an easy one to solve it wasn't committed by
14:27the people that we'd been tracking so closely and ultimately that became a cold case
14:33i was given the investigation when i arrived at piranha this was really different because there
14:44wasn't a great amount of witnesses there were people who had gunshots but nobody really saw
14:49somebody in the street that night so the investigation relied heavily on a statement from
14:55the runner who had been arrested and charged with several murders and then decided to become a
15:01police witness most statements that we take from people we do then set out to corroborate independently
15:08as well in his statement he says that he was actually tasked by carl williams to kill graham kinner
15:15but he had several other murders on the go at the time that he was also planning and so in
15:20the end he
15:21outsourced or subcontracted this murder to terence bluart and stephen asling
15:28stephen asling was a very violent career criminal he had spent very little time outside of prison he
15:35had committed offenses from a very early age does seem to be a training ground that you would start
15:41with armed robbery and very easily progressed in murder
15:49name's bruce knight i was a member of the victoria police from 1973 to 2010
15:56of that time i had 18 years with the special operations group
16:03the primary role of the special operations group was counter-terrorism and deal with high risk offenders
16:12or do tasks that were beyond the capability of other members of victoria police members of the special
16:21operations group have a variety of skills weapons skills entry technique surveillance communication
16:28so they can carry out any duties that do come up
16:40early july 1992 victoria police approaches for operation thorn to work on normie lee stephen
16:52bachie and stephen asling who they suspected were going to commit armed robberies surveillance had
16:59been following them and they'd shown interest in telemarine and went out there and would surveil and watch
17:06the anset freight terminal
17:11we had 21 sog members deployed in a variety of locations the offenders parked adjacent to the front of
17:21the anset air freight we saw an armor guard truck drive into the air freight terminal and back up to
17:27the front door
17:29and they were unloading bags out the back of the armored car
17:35two men with masks on were seen running towards the armored car
17:41they then grabbed a bag each of money
17:43and a white panel van reversed up the offenders with masks and guns were out of the armor guard van
17:51heading towards the white ford panel van i gave the order for them to be intercepted
17:59asling then floored the car as he took off with such haste normally and bachie fell out of the back
18:06of
18:06the van stumbled to the ground jumped up surrounded by sog members they then pointed their weapons at the
18:13sog members and both were shot asling took off in the van
18:21one of the sog vehicles could see the white panel van approaching them
18:26they crossed the median strip and rammed the white ford panel van head on at a speed of about 80
18:33kilometers
18:34an hour he was bounced around in the car they got him out put him on the ground and handcuffed
18:47just before 2 pm two bandits entered the anset freight terminal adjoining the main airport complex
18:53and ordered two armor guard personnel and several staff to lie on the floor the robbers armed with
18:59magnum revolvers and wearing rubber masks seized a large amount of cash and were leaving the building
19:04when police swooped
19:08bachie was wounded several times and normally was hit twice normally subsequently died at the scene
19:17bachie was taken to hospital for treatment for gunshot wounds
19:22in the back of the white panel van they had two military semi-automatic assault rifle we believe
19:28that their plan was if they'd been followed by anybody they would have just kicked the back door
19:33of the van open and open up on whoever was behind them 32 year old stephen john asley one of
19:41the
19:41alleged bandits in yesterday's thwarted million dollar cash and gold bullion robbery appeared in the city
19:46court today a number of armed robbers as their confidence grow go on to bigger and better things
19:54and i think moving on to be hitman is just an extension of that because it's easy money for them
20:06stephen asling is similar to rod collins in that sense of paranoia that he always believed that he was
20:11being followed and targeted by the police he had a hatred of the police and would definitely kill somebody for
20:17money
20:22in the early 80s in melbourne the main thing the crooks were looking for was fast money it's all about
20:29armed robberies uh quick money from banks who probably didn't have the security that they've got nowadays
20:41crooks in those days would gravitate to that easy money and rod collins was one of those
20:48i'd got word that he was so-called tooling up to do the job of some description no idea what
20:59we followed rod to a place in st kilda another car rolls up with two other people so we got
21:08this nest
21:08of crooks gathering together there were four of them and they were all well-known serious
21:17armed robbers that's what they did for a living and they had decided big plans they were going to take
21:22out
21:25a bank it lives forever in my memory because it was so spectacularly bad and idiotic they follow in
21:32convoy in two cars to the ringwood area in maroondah highway ringwood there's a group of banks all
21:41together so we put some surveillance there we had our sag team to take them out if they did something
21:48wrong
21:48we had several teams out there watching they were proceeding that way when the surveillance units
21:54lost them and they just got a bit distracted so they let the time go past and then they were
22:03running a
22:03bit late they dropped one car around the corner and drove to the back of the bank they break into
22:11the
22:12bank and they're going to take out all of the safety deposit boxes but they didn't get anything because
22:18they'd closed down for the day so they left there and went back to where the other car was
22:24the police meantime send in what is known as the soggies which is special operations group near the
22:32guys that go hut hut hut hut and come in and cause maximum damage and as they went to change
22:39getaway cars
22:40we pounced on them and arrested them they did just that they arrested them with force one could say
22:49the photos that we had for the court showed all of them with black eyes they had torn clothes their
22:59pants were down around their ankles they'd strip them down caught literally with their pants down
23:09having a look at them in the photos they hadn't had a good day in those days i think they
23:17felt i
23:18were professional crooks we were the professional police this is business
23:24uh and rod was the same he had no fear he didn't care too much about going to jail being
23:31caught didn't
23:33worry him at all
23:38we had other encounters along the way rod collins and me i was present when a search warrant was executed
23:48in
23:48his house the warrant was for firearms and i sat with him at the kitchen table he had a thing
23:57where
23:59he'd call me solly all the time which is a little on the disrespectful side but i didn't mind
24:05it's good to keep on talking terms with people like collins but i suddenly became conscious of the way
24:13he was the way he was sitting at that table and the look that he was giving me and it
24:18was it all seemed
24:19a bit strange and i had this feeling and i looked under the table and uh got the shock of
24:24my life when
24:25i saw he had a handgun it's pointed directly at me the whole time
24:34he clearly had the reputation as a gun for hire and easy money for someone who has no conscience is
24:40to
24:40pick up a gun and take a contract out that's what he wanted to do more than anything else
24:46he was always the suspect for the abbeys always and to my mind it's number one for the hodgson's
24:55murders number one for sure and you know right from the word go you can see it was his mo
25:00and uh
25:02it was just about getting the evidence there's a big difference between knowing and then proving
25:06it in court as i'm sure most people are aware of in my view collins is the only person that
25:13would be able to pull something off like that would have the nerve to do it so i mentioned it
25:22to
25:23the team and we decided that we'd have a look at rodney collins
25:31as cole stature grew we actually had people coming to him offering their services as hitmen
25:39we know rod collins felt quite left out and he said to carl on one particular day hey
25:45i'm willing to do whatever you need me to do just bring me in
25:52i'm willing to do it fairly soon we were able to link rodney collins to carl williams
25:58carl williams was meeting rodney collins and having walk and talks less than a week later
26:06the day before he was going to give evidence terry and christine were dead
26:19carl williams as you expect was in maximum security he didn't have access to a lot of other
26:26prisoners he was kept in what was pretty much isolated detention he had one or two others
26:33in the cell with him at any one particular time he wasn't particularly strong individual and to
26:40survive in jail he needed to surround himself with people who were stronger and perhaps a more
26:46experienced jailhouse enforcers he chose tommy ivanovich and matthew johnson people he thought
26:55he could trust
27:00lex lasry former barrister former supreme court judge in victoria
27:06matthew johnson was a very imposing man and uh you know in its own way it was bizarre because
27:11he was in a high security section of barwin with williams but he has a very strong view about people
27:18who give information to the police
27:22one thing you could say about carl williams was if there was one person who knew about it
27:30he knew about all of it he'd been all the way along complaining about people giving evidence about him
27:37he suddenly uh decided that perhaps he could get on this and get a reduced sentence by giving evidence
27:44against a police officer and he started to uh make a deal and make statements to do just that
27:52in exchange for telling police this information he'd be eligible for a one million dollar reward for
27:57solving the hodson's murders and crucially police would support his appeal to have his 35 year sentence
28:04potentially cut by up to 15 years and it was it was only ever going to be another criminal white
28:12car
28:12williams that was going going to be able to provide the information we needed so that was a big breakthrough
28:18and the case just got stronger against rodney collins detective senior sergeant sol solomon was central
28:26to the attempt to prosecute one of his own paul dale over the execution of terence hodson and his wife
28:32he had carl williams taken from prison to interview him
28:38carl williams finally admitted to us that yes he was approached by someone who i won't name
28:47who wanted terry hodson dead and offered up some money to have it done
28:54carl williams then told us that he approached rodney collins to see if he was interested in doing
29:00the job and collins took the contract it's very difficult to trust someone like carl williams
29:08we look to see what phone records we might have or what even surveillance information we would have
29:13that corroborates the movements and the things that carl williams said he did
29:19whilst we were working on collins he was being looked at for the abbey murders but he got away
29:27with it um one of the things i thought we may be able to use to our advantage is to
29:36reopen the case
29:38against the abbeys and see if we can progress it further than what the original investigators did
29:51we reopened the abbey double murder investigation
29:56we utilized some electronic surveillance on collins and collins's girlfriend at the time
30:04she was speaking to collins during visits and collins was saying things to her
30:11making admissions that he was involved in the abbey murders that he'd done it
30:17and we were able to hear what was being said we managed to get three or four of collins's prisoner
30:24buddies that he served time with to come forward and uh make statements that collins had actually
30:31made admissions that he'd um he'd murdered the abbeys there was an offender called mark mcconville
30:37when he was in prison for another matter and he was dying he made a statement and he implicated
30:43himself and rod collins in the murder of dot and ray abbey but because he wasn't able to give that
30:49evidence because he ultimately died we set about corroborating every aspect of mark mcconville's
30:55statement for the murder of dot and ray abbey that implicated rod collins we're able to progress it
31:01to a point where we got what we needed it was an amazing result when you think of it you
31:09know to be
31:09able to reopen a case after so many years and to get the evidence any cold case murder especially a
31:17double murder that's solved you know gives gives the public a lot of confidence and we did it purely
31:24to try and get into collins's head to see if we can get him to say something to incriminating for
31:29the
31:29hodson murders we decided to go and arrest rod collins in fairfield for the abbey murders
31:38it was decided that we would just make the arrest and do the search no sog would be used and
31:44it
31:44would be a fairly low level knock on the door and take him into custody it was extremely risky
31:51but would stand a better chance to get something out of him not necessarily that day but maybe in the
32:04future
32:05this is what we found in his little flat it's his little one better a 45 semi-auto loaded
32:14australian federal police target profile a document that had about 60 pages that contained hundreds of
32:20names car numbers addresses i've no doubt one of those names on that list was uh was his next target
32:28binoculars night vision gear ballistic vest he had a surveillance device you pointed in a direction and
32:37you could hear what's being said from long distance he had portable two-way radios he had a government
32:44frequency book so he could patch into he knows what frequency police and other government agencies are
32:51working on balaclava mask week and he had these collapsible adjustable mirrors that you can see around
33:01corners now i would call that a pretty good assassin's kit
33:10finally we got collins for the abbey murders now we had to try and get into collins's head to
33:18incriminate him for the hodson murders
33:22the execution of melbourne couple terence and christine hodson eight years ago ties together
33:28police corruption and some of victoria's most infamous criminals collins has now been returned from the
33:34melbourne custody center to barwin prison i had about five meetings with him at barwin prison
33:44the way i got to him was just he liked to have his ego stroked and he had a saying
33:50he used to say
33:51just remember one thing i hold all the aces and i can remember those words every time i would go
33:58and
33:58see him he would always say i hold all the aces and then i would ask him questions like you
34:05know who
34:06do you think would be capable of committing a crime like the hodson's double murder because it was done by
34:12somebody a very professional very cool very clinical he'd smile and say yes that's right sol it was
34:21and he he reminded me that you know he holds all the aces and we eventually charged him with killing
34:30christine and terry hodson
34:39he was in court
34:42and myself and some other detectives were down executing a search warrant in his cell
34:49when he got back to his cell that night and he found under his pillow
34:54the ace of spades from the playing cards
34:58he was not very happy about that he's not very happy about that at all
35:12so carl williams is in jail he's now become known publicly it's in the paper that he's informing
35:19to the police supposedly about corrupt police officers but for others they're starting to say
35:26well he knows what i've done and some very serious criminals started to wonder am i at risk so there's
35:34two things one he's in jail with matthew johnson a guy that hates police informers and two there's
35:40other people on the outside worried like hell about what he's talking about to the police all of a sudden
35:47he's in grave danger
35:57carl's testimony is critical to a conclusion in the hodson case
36:01but the pressure around it has been ramping up reaching crisis point
36:06the word of a man who knows it all is invaluable but word spreads fast in the underworld and fear
36:14even faster
36:20there'd been a lot of media publicity at the time around the fact that carl williams was getting a lot
36:27of benefits
36:29he was in with two particular individuals and there was pressure being brought to bear upon them
36:35to get themselves moved from that unit because to stay there with carl any longer would mean that they
36:42are tarred with the same feathers as carl that is a police informer so carl's days were numbered
36:49coming forward to give evidence against dale you might think that that's how he would
36:55solve his conscience i'm just giving evidence against the policeman but he just knew so much
37:01there must have been people who feared that if he got into the witness box almost anything could come out
37:09if carl williams is talking what danger does he pose for me so i don't care if he gives evidence
37:15against the police officer but what if he decides to give evidence against me and there's no doubt in
37:20my mind those concerned people from the outside had conversations with people on the inside
37:31one of the most intimidating characters i think i've ever dealt with was matthew johnson
37:41i have never seen anyone of his size or his ferocity
37:46he'd been up on a charge of murder in front of me and he actually gave evidence so he was
37:51really
37:51up close to me he had a look of malevolence that i've not seen before or since he was charged
38:00with
38:01killing a man by setting fire to him having made a funeral pyre on which he could place the body
38:08poured
38:10petrol down his throat slit his chest open so he could get more in and then through a match
38:18it was supposedly the motive was that he owed him 20 dollars for cannabis
38:23nobody frightened me in a courtroom until he did he's the scariest man i think i've ever come across
38:43the carl williams he was in the common area reading a copy of the herald sun the tables in the
38:51center of
38:51the room on the front page of the herald sun that day which he was reading was the story about
38:56the
38:56assistance the government were giving him for his children's private school fees
39:03and at that stage there were a lot of rumblings in the unit that Carl was in Tom was just
39:11walking
39:11around in the unit the next thing that anybody knew Matty Johnson had removed a seat post from
39:20an exercise bike hit it in his cell and at an opportune moment came up behind Carl Williams
39:29Matthew Johnson standing behind Williams with a seat post in his hand and bludgeoned him to death
39:35as he was reading the paper and Carl was probably dead before he fell off the chair and hit the
39:43floor
39:47and that other fellow was there turned his back and just didn't watch it
39:54so that's what happened there
40:00Carl's lying dead on the floor 10-15 minutes goes past Johnson and Ivanovic are walking around waiting
40:08for someone to come no one came eventually Johnson I think got on the phone and said something like
40:15I think Carl's had a bit of a problem you better send somebody but don't send a woman because he
40:21didn't want any women to see the gory mess that he'd made of Carl Williams yet
40:27Bowen prison goes into lockdown as a steady stream of homicide detectives arrive to investigate the
40:33death of notorious underworld kingpin Carl Williams the face of Melbourne's bloody and long-running
40:39gangland war he was serving a minimum 35 year sentence for three underworld murders despite the
40:46efforts of paramedics he could not be revived he was pronounced dead at 1 47 p.m talk us through
40:55the
40:55the murder of car wins remember that I can indeed I was sitting in court and my associate stood up
41:08put a
41:08note in front of a note in front of me and said Carl Williams murdered what ever time it was
41:14and I
41:16wrote a note back that said I'm surprised he lasted that long how did you feel in in some ways
41:26uh it was in actually well how did I feel let me start that again you know I'd always said
41:35to Carl Williams
41:36Carl don't invest in superannuation you're never going to get it collected so I was not surprised where
41:42was I I was on a treadmill at my local gym when my phone rang in my gym bag so
41:52I thought I'd better
41:52answer this and it was someone from work and he said you better sit down Carl has just been murdered
42:14okay this is a tape recorded interview conducted at the Darwin prison on the 19th day of April 2010
42:24what's your full name and address please Matthew Charles Johnson
42:31Matthew Johnson had been arrested and charged with the murder of Carl Williams have you got any comment
42:40to make about that no comment no comment Johnson was charged with murder you know in its own way it
42:49was bizarre because this is all on CCTV are you aware um that there is um video within the prison
42:59complex no comment some of the photos that were released from the court show Matthew Johnson standing
43:05behind Williams with the seat post in his hand uh Carl's lying dead on the floor well at this stage
43:12I'll advise you that you're going to be charged with the murder of Carl Williams you do not have to
43:18say or
43:18do anything unless you wish to do so but whatever you say or do may be recorded and given it
43:23evidence
43:23do you understand that yes in terms of you know the fact that it was Matthew Johnson I went
43:31well that doesn't really surprise me what surprised me was that he was in a cell with Matthew Johnson
43:50Matthew Johnson is a brutal killer Carl believes that he'd be protected by Matthew Johnson but what he
43:58underestimated is that Matthew Johnson would never put up with protecting a police informer that went
44:05against everything he stood for Carl was not the type to survive a long time in jail particularly once
44:27he was cooperating with the police you it's a real death wish in places like Barwon
44:35another blow in a long wait for answers Paul Dale was charged with the Hodson murders the charges
44:42were dropped when gangland boss Carl Williams was killed in prison Carl's family aside the Petra
44:49Task Force were the only other people in Victoria who were absolutely devastated that day it was devastating
44:54absolutely devastating I knew then that that was a massive hole been blown into the prosecution case
45:03we had in relation to the Codson killings the the whole prosecution case was built on the foundation of
45:14Carl Williams and it wasn't there anymore without Carl there was no case me and my fellow lead
45:24investigator had been working on this case now best part of six years and it just went very demoralizing
45:36Carl's brutal bludgeoning at the hands of an inmate seemingly unraveled the cold case detectives have been
45:42so close to solving Carl initially ordered the hit on Graham Kinneborough and his ongoing war against the
45:50Carlton crew and the Morans the alleged killers of Kinneborough were named by the runner the talk alone doesn't make
45:58a case
45:58the evidence wasn't strong and one of the accused hitmen conveniently disappeared making a difficult job even harder
46:08the file remained open but progress was slow in this city secrets don't stay buried they just wait for someone
46:18to dig
46:23after the murder of Graham Kinneborough Terence blew and went missing we set about investigating the suspicious disappearance of Terence
46:31blew it we had information that led us to an illegal tip in Thomastown for the right amount of money
46:40you could dump whatever you
46:41we wanted on that site it had since been rehabilitated it looked like a beautiful untouched field far from what
46:49it
46:50had looked like at the time that Terence blew and went missing so we decided that that site was fairly
46:56interesting for us
47:09I was given permission to hire a very big digger and we went there and started excavating that massive site
47:17unfortunately after two and a half days we uncovered nothing
47:22and I'd been told that if we didn't come home with Terry then I should probably look with some other
47:28line of work very soon
47:30I did feel a great amount of pressure
47:34I ordered some aerial photographs of the site around the time that Terence blew and went missing
47:41we'd noticed in the photographs there was two diggers and one of them had never moved
47:48and we could see before and after that the digger was in the same place
47:53so we were able to line up where we thought that digger was using the rooftops of the nearby factories
48:02and as soon as we started scraping back the layers we could see a trench
48:08and so I rang my boss and said we think we've found where he's buried and he said stop digging
48:14no I couldn't wait
48:17so we kept digging
48:19and because the site that they had dug into had house bricks and asbestos and all sorts of things in
48:25it
48:25there was the normal soil profile but then persisting through the layers was other material that shouldn't have been there
48:33and then on the last scoop of the day in the bucket was Terence blew it
48:42I was so relieved
48:46so we compiled the brief and we took that to the office of public prosecutions for an opinion
48:51and the crown prosecutor's response to us was what are you waiting for go and charge him
48:56more than 13 years after Graham Kinneborough was executed outside his queue home one of his alleged killers is finally
49:04on trial
49:04the jury was told Asling was acting on behalf of Carl Williams who had a powerful hatred of the Moran
49:10family and their associates
49:15because I'm naturally a pessimist I thought he would be acquitted
49:19so when the jury returned a verdict and they looked straight at me when they said guilty
49:23he was sentenced to life in prison with a non-parole period of 27 years
49:28Stephen Asling made no comment was impassive and he was removed from the court
49:43Melbourne's gangland war ran on drugs money and a steady supply of hired guns
49:50at the centre was Carl Williams a suburban nobody who built an empire by unleashing hitmen
49:57to erase rivals and grab the lion's share of the city's drug trade
50:04for time it worked bodies dropped Carl got rich and fear did the heavy lifting
50:12but loyalty in the underworld has a short self-life his gunman flipped hard-working police cracked the
50:20code of silence and his empire finally imploded in the final twist the man who ordered so many
50:29killings met his own end not on the street but in a prison unit bashed to death becoming just another
50:37victim of the violence he once commanded in the underworld dead men tell no tales
50:48there are five million stories in the naked city this has been one of them
51:00true
51:00that's a good thing
51:01that's not a bad thing
51:03and the the best of Speedway
51:03that can't think of it
51:03you
51:03that's true
51:04that's true
51:04that's true
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