جنگ ایران: اتحادیه اروپا تماشاگر است یا بازیگر دیپلماتیک؟ مناظره در برنامه رینگ

euronews (بزبان فارسی)

جنگ ایران: اتحادیه اروپا تماشاگر است یا بازیگر دیپلماتیک؟ مناظره در برنامه رینگ  با ورود جنگ آمریکا و اسرائیل علیه ایران به هفته دوم، اتحادیه اروپا خود را برای شوک احتمالی انرژی و پیامدهای اقتصادی آماده می‌شود. با تداوم درگیری، آیا می‌تواند همچنان در حاشیه بماند و خسارتها را مهار کند یا به عنوان نگهبان نظم مبتنی بر قواعد در آستانه آزمونی سرنوشت ساز قرار گرفته است؟  لب بیشتر : http://parsi.euronews.com/2026/03/13/gng-airan-athadih-aropa-tmashagr-ast-ia-bazigr-diplmatik-mnathrh-dr-brnamh-ring  مشترک شوید: یورونیوز به یازده زبان دیگر در دسترس شماست

Transcript

00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' debate show broadcast from the European Parliament here in Strasbourg.

00:17Once a week, two elected members of the European Parliament step into the ring to defend their views on the

00:23most pressing issues facing Europe.

00:26Today, we're once again focusing on the U.S. and Israel's war against Iran.

00:31Is the EU prepared to deal with the economic fallout of a prolonged war?

00:36And could this trigger a radical change in the EU's place in the world?

00:42As the war in Iran enters its second week, the shockwaves are reaching Europe.

00:47The conflict is raising urgent questions about the EU's energy supply, security and role on the global stage.

00:54The first impact is visible on energy markets.

00:57Oil prices surged over $100 a barrel for the first time in four years.

01:03For Europe's export-driven economies, a prolonged conflict could translate into slower growth and renewed financial volatility.

01:11The crisis is also testing Brussels' relationship with the Trump administration.

01:15Will European governments align more closely with Washington?

01:21Meanwhile, security concerns for Europe's southeastern region are mounting.

01:25Several EU nations have sent warships to bolster the defences of Cyprus, an EU island nation which has already been

01:31caught in the crossfire.

01:34Where does Europe stand in this crisis?

01:36Will it remain largely defensive, managing the fallout of a conflict it cannot control?

01:41Or attempt a more offensive role?

01:50Just some of the questions we have for our contenders today.

01:54Let's meet them.

01:56Antonio López Isturiz, a Spanish MEP from the Central Right European People's Party.

02:02A lawyer by training, he has been an MEP since 2004.

02:05And he sits on the Committee on Foreign Affairs at the European Parliament.

02:09Commenting on international security challenges, he has stressed the importance of strengthening cooperation among democratic partners.

02:15In the context of the escalation in the Middle East, he said,

02:19Given Iran's support for terrorism, its nuclear ambitions and its regional aggression, the West cannot remain passive.

02:27Daniel Attard, a Maltese MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.

02:30A lawyer by training, he was elected to the European Parliament in 2024, where he is Vice Chair of the

02:36Delegation for Relations with Iran.

02:38Commenting on the war in Iran, he said,

02:40There are serious legal questions about this military operation, but we must not lose sight of where the root causes

02:46of this crisis lie.

02:47The Iranian regime has for decades destabilized the region, sponsored militias and repressed its own people.

02:53I would advocate for hard diplomacy.

02:55Europe should lead talks toward de-escalation.

02:58Diplomacy should always prevail.

03:03MEPs Antonio López-Isturiz and Daniel Attard, welcome to The Ring.

03:09So, the idea here is to give our viewers at home a little taste of the debates that happen here

03:14in the European Parliament,

03:16so I'm sure you both will feel just at home.

03:18Let's get started.

03:19I will start with you, Antonio.

03:21We're in the second week of this war.

03:23There's really no signs of this abating right now.

03:25Are you any clearer now on what the end goals of both the U.S. and Israel are here?

03:32Well, I don't think that we don't have the information, none of us.

03:35There's not even people at charge here in the European Union about what's going on.

03:40It should be another way.

03:42I think that also the European Union is losing a little bit, let's say, the initiative to be there, you

03:48know, in order to also help.

03:51Our motto nowadays and the European flag represents precisely principles, values, and that's what we have to work with and

04:01we have to collaborate.

04:02But we are not really in the decision-making at worldwide situation, at geopolitical situation today.

04:11Okay, you mentioned those European values.

04:13I think the EU is also built on this concept of international law and respect for the rules.

04:19You've said, Daniel, that, you know, this initial strike from the U.S. and Israel that triggered the war was

04:24not in line with international law.

04:26So is it right now that the EU, as Antonio says, does more to support the U.S. and Israel

04:30in this war?

04:31The EU should stand up for its values, as my colleague has said.

04:37Our mission is clear, in my opinion.

04:39We should, first of all, push for the escalation, build a path towards a return to diplomacy, protect our citizens

04:46and our interests in the region.

04:49And we should also stand firm with the long struggle of the Iranian people for freedom and dignity.

04:54Because, as I said, there are serious questions on the legality of this military operation.

05:02But we should not lose sight of the historical context of the Iranian regime, how the crisis unfolded over the

05:10past decades, not just over the past 15 days.

05:12Okay, but let me put this to you.

05:13Is the war so far doing anything to help the Iranian people?

05:17The Iranian regime has been for years building up its nuclear capacity.

05:23Its movements to become military-grade uranium also has been sponsoring terrorist attacks all over the world for years.

05:33I think it's also about a time that Iran and the regime learns about also principles and values.

05:38And sometimes, sometimes we have to be strict on this.

05:42But we've seen the supreme leader being replaced by his son.

05:46So, if it is regime change that the U.S. and Israel are pursuing, it doesn't seem that that's working

05:52so far.

05:52Do you think it's right to pursue regime change from the skies?

05:54I think it should be a joke to say that we have a regime change when the son takes from

05:58the father.

06:00Let's say a sad joke, because these people have killed thousands, specifically also women, that were fighting for the freedoms

06:07in Iran.

06:08We cannot escape that reality.

06:11So, also, we have to fight for our principles and values, fighting this kind of regimes.

06:16And for them to change and also to have, and I agree with Daniel, that we give the Iranian people

06:23the opportunity also to take the future for themselves, for a democratic future in Iran.

06:28I am sure that we, him and I, and many in this parliament, we agree.

06:32There was a resolution two weeks ago about Iran, only nine votes against from the extreme right.

06:37The rest of the parliament was absolutely agreeing.

06:40I had the pleasure, the honor of being the chief negotiator of this resolution.

06:44And that was the image of this parliament united for that purpose.

06:47So, there's consensus on that, on the brutality of the Iranian regime and the need for the EU to support

06:53the pro-democracy, pro-freedom movement.

06:55But a socialist voice in Europe, Pedro Sánchez, the prime minister of Spain, has also been very firm in calling

07:02for restraint and this message of no to war.

07:06Do you stand with his message?

07:08Pedro Sánchez spoke for the upholding of international law.

07:12And I believe in this house we all stand for international law, international order, and multilateralism.

07:19What do you make, both of you, of the response from the EU institutions?

07:25Who speaks on behalf of the EU when it comes to this conflict?

07:29Maybe you can start here.

07:30Listen, the European Parliament has been clear and consistent.

07:34We have been calling for the designation of the IRGC as a terrorist organization for at least three years.

07:42Three years repeating our call for this designation.

07:45And it took the council three years to align with the parliament's position.

07:48So this institution where we stand today has been clear and vocal.

07:52But we lack the unanimity as a European Union.

07:57Yes, but if I may, there is an all-out war happening affecting Europe, shockwaves in terms of energy prices,

08:04economic fallout and so on.

08:05Now that there is a war happening, who speaks for Europe?

08:08Do you think that it should be von der Leyen, for example?

08:12No, clearly it's not Pedro Sánchez.

08:13Let me point that because he is now in the, let's say, pre-electoral process in Spain.

08:18And it's not good to mix things and to give rhetorics like the no-true war.

08:23I mean, we don't want wars.

08:25No one wants.

08:26But to use it, you know, for internal purposes, now more than ever we have to be united.

08:31There has not to be any discordant voices.

08:35We have to.

08:36And maybe, maybe what Pedro Sánchez should do is come to the council, agree with, you know, the prime ministers,

08:42even from Malta, from Germany, everybody.

08:45And we have a common position.

08:46That's how things are done in this European Union.

08:49And at least he should respect that.

08:50Can you give him credit for at least being very firm?

08:53In the sense that other EU leaders seem to be treading this very fine line between condemning the Iranian regime,

09:00supporting some kind of change in the regime and the toppling of the regime, but yet not really standing very

09:05clear on what it makes of this U.S.-Israeli intervention.

09:08Isn't treading this fine line in the middle making the EU irrelevant here?

09:14No.

09:14Now, more than ever, we need that single voice.

09:17We don't need voices spread around in this European Union.

09:21Because that's what everybody is asking from us.

09:24If we want to be really an actor on the ground in many areas where, again, the European Union, with

09:30its principles and values, can contribute also to alleviate the effects of what's going on.

09:36And on that, because we are seeing big impacts in terms of oil prices already, shouldn't the EU be doing

09:42more to be more proactive here to anticipate the possible impact on European citizens?

09:47We have been saying this from across the chamber for weeks, months, and also years.

09:54We have to build our strategic autonomy, be it economically, be it in terms of energy, be it in terms

09:58of security.

09:59Strategic autonomy does not mean that we are being hostile to the U.S., but it will actually strengthen the

10:07strategic partnership.

10:08But strategic partnership does not have to mean strategic dependence.

10:11So, yes, to answer your question, we have to do more to be more autonomous, to be able to shape

10:17future events rather than simply react to them, as we have been doing, not just in this crisis, but also

10:22when it comes to the war in Ukraine and other conflicts around the world.

10:27But does that mean drastically reducing the reliance on the U.S. when it comes to Europe's defense?

10:33As I said, building our strategic autonomy does not mean weakening our strategic partnerships.

10:40Maybe a final response to that?

10:43Strategic autonomy means inside the systems where we are, the structures where we are, NATO, United Nations, that we have

10:52Europeans together.

10:53Together, we have a single voice, again, not dispersed voices on electoral purposes, but a single voice in these structures,

11:03that we react as, and also, we are working with our allies.

11:09Who are our allies?

11:10Democratic countries.

11:12That might be perfect or imperfect.

11:14Maybe they have not elected the president we wanted, or yes, but they are democracies.

11:19And we have to be patient, like they are also with us sometimes, I have to say.

11:23Let me stop you there.

11:23I see we're getting warmed up here in the debate, but it's now time to move on to the second

11:29round.

11:34It's time for our contenders to directly challenge each other.

11:37They've come here today armed with their own questions for their opponents.

11:42So let's hear them, and let me start with you, Daniel, your first question to Antonio.

11:46So, Antonio, we have been talking about strategic autonomy, but does that mean that we have to align with decisions

11:54taken by others across the region, across the transatlantic?

11:58Not to follow, and I think, I'm sure that we should agree, not to follow, but to be in the

12:04decision making, and also contributing with our European values in that decision making.

12:09Maybe we could do a difference.

12:13My, maybe, autocritic is that maybe the Europeans, we are not soon enough in places where decisions are taken.

12:20These are the opportunities that we cannot miss.

12:23Antonio, your first question to Daniel.

12:26Again, our allies.

12:28I talked about our allies.

12:30Daniel, what do you think?

12:31I mean, should we stay, you know, also with them?

12:35They are democratic countries.

12:36Should we go in another way?

12:40What's your view on this?

12:41So you're talking about the Gulf countries and the U.S., I'm assuming?

12:43Yes, of course.

12:44And Israel, by the way, also.

12:45And Israel.

12:46As I said, we should, first of all, invest in our strategic autonomy so that we are able, as a

12:51European Union, to speak with one voice and to shape events rather than simply react to them as we have

12:56been doing.

12:57But we should also, yes, work with our allies closely.

13:00Let's speak about the transatlantic allegiance, the elephant in the room.

13:05The EU and the U.S. share decades of strategic partnership.

13:09And I believe that that strategic partnership will outlast any single crisis.

13:15I believe that beyond political rhetoric, that strategic alliance will outlast this war.

13:21And we can build on that, building on that while also building our own strategic autonomy.

13:27As a product of a transatlantic relation that I am, my mother is American, I have to say, I agree

13:32absolutely.

13:33Good, very good.

13:34Daniel, your second question to Antonio.

13:36So my question is this.

13:38Would you think, speaking of the Iranian people, we said that they now have the hope for freedom and for

13:44dignity, something which they long have been fighting for.

13:48But do you think that their future can be decided by foreign powers or by missiles dropping in their country?

13:55No.

13:56And we said it before, you and me.

13:58I think that we agree.

14:00And by the way, you are an expert.

14:01You are in the Iranian delegation here in the European Parliament.

14:04And I have been passionately involved in the fight against this regime.

14:08By the way, I'm in the black list of the regime.

14:10And to tell you that, you know, we have to join efforts in order to tackle with this regime, that

14:17we have to be prudent also in the way that the Iranian people feel our support.

14:25And they feel it in a way that they can race against this regime.

14:29They have done it before.

14:30Remember, just this Christmas, there were 6,000 people killed in the streets of Iran.

14:35Because of that, we need to be to them and we have to give them the clear messages of our

14:40support.

14:41But very briefly, if I may, just to push further on that question.

14:45Do you think that this war is actually helping and sending that signal from the West, the signal that you've

14:52just spoken about to the Iranian people?

14:54I think that they're willing also to change the regime in Iran is maybe, maybe, giving this, you know, support,

15:01this help to the European, to the Iranian people.

15:06It's soon to know.

15:07We don't know what's going on in the streets.

15:09There is an internet blackout.

15:11There is no communication.

15:12We don't know, Daniel, me, and anyone here, what's going on in the streets of Tehran, on Isfahan.

15:17You know, but we wish and we want the Iranian people to feel our support, not only for resolutions, but

15:24also with action.

15:25Okay, we have time for a very last question from you, Antonio, to Daniel.

15:29Yes.

15:32Sanctions, Daniel.

15:34Because I just heard the president of the socialist group, Irakje García, talking about, you know, that we need more

15:41sanctions to asphyxiate the regime.

15:45Do you think that we have done enough or not in the European Union?

15:48I mean, this is a question that we all members have in the different groups.

15:51I think that the parliament has done its job.

15:53It has been consistent, but we definitely have to do more.

15:55We have to, we need hard diplomacy.

15:58We need to increase the pressure on the regime.

16:00We still have embassies operating like business as usual in the European Union.

16:04I think we should take action on that.

16:06And also, obviously, we need the council to be more fast.

16:08Because as we have seen, political hesitation carries consequences.

16:12Okay, thank you both for your own questions there.

16:16But it's time now to bring new voices into the debate.

16:24Now, earlier this week, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen delivered a speech

16:29pitching a new way forward for the EU in the way it does foreign policy.

16:35Let's listen to what she had to say and also the reaction from her own vice president, Teresa Rivera.

16:40Europe can no longer be a custodian of the old world order.

16:45For a world that has gone and will not return.

16:49We will always defend and uphold the rules-based system that we helped to build with our allies.

16:56But we can no longer rely on it as the only way to defend our interests.

17:02It is fair to say that maybe it was not the most adequate manner to express herself.

17:11But yes, she is fully committed, of course, to the international order.

17:16But to me, it is key to defend, to stress, to underline that the international law is a key element

17:25of building the European project and the European security.

17:28The large majority of countries around the world think that this is the best thing we have done

17:34since the end of World War II.

17:36But it is absolutely key for Europe.

17:39Antonio, is von der Leyen right?

17:42Does the EU need to change the way it does foreign policy in this new world?

17:45It's a little bit sad, no, to see the vice president of the commission receiving phone calls

17:47from the prime minister of Spain and introducing his agenda.

17:52I don't think that, you know, in the declarations of Ursula, I don't see the agenda of anyone

17:56except the European one.

17:58When she said we cannot set a tear for the regime, I think that we can all agree, you know,

18:05with this approach.

18:06Well, we do have a socialist here on set.

18:08You belong to the same political family as Rivera, of course, and the prime minister Pedro Sánchez.

18:13What do you make of that?

18:14I think that beyond the political rhetoric with an upcoming election in Spain,

18:22what Pedro has said is he stood up for international law, for what we stand for in this house.

18:28But it also shows the beauty of this house that we can have different opinions,

18:33but we can also agree on the basics.

18:34And to be clear, international crises rarely offer simple answers,

18:41but complexity does not have to mean moral blindness.

18:45Okay, but what the lion is saying that, you know, continuing with the same agenda is naive

18:50because the world around us is changing.

18:53Do you agree with her in that, in that, you know,

18:56there needs to be more pragmatic interest-based approach to the EU's foreign policy?

19:01I'm all for a pragmatic-based approach,

19:05but we have to be able also to speak with one voice when it comes to what we stand for,

19:09our values, the rule of law, international order.

19:12And we must also be able to condemn the killing of innocents,

19:16like the children, the schoolchildren which were killed innocently in the United States.

19:19But what's the timing of her speech, right, would you say?

19:22The speech of von der Leyen.

19:23Of von der Leyen, when she casts a little bit of a doubt

19:26on the strength of the EU's kind of commitments to the rules-based order,

19:30she said that you can no longer be a custodian of that rules-based order.

19:34I wouldn't subscribe to that.

19:35I think that, as a European Union, we should be strong and standing up for our values

19:41because that is the core foundation of why this union was founded after the Second World War.

19:46Okay, let me stop you there because it's time for us to take a short break here on The Ring,

19:50but stay with us. We'll be back very soon.

20:01Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' new weekly debate show.

20:06I'm joined by MEPs Daniel Attard and Antonio López-Estudy

20:10to discuss the US and Israel's war with Iran and the ripple effects felt in Europe.

20:17The conflict has, of course, caused the effective closure of the Strait of Hormuz.

20:22Let's take a look at why that matters for Europe.

20:26As you can see there, around 20% of the world's oil passes through the Strait.

20:33Major exporters of energy include Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq and Iran.

20:40And why does this matter for Europe?

20:42Well, about 13% of EU oil imports are transited through Hormuz.

20:48And, of course, this is why there is growing concern here in Europe

20:52about the potential impact on prices and on consumers' pockets.

20:57I should also note that the US is now saying it has eliminated Iranian mine-laying ships in the Strait.

21:04Also, the International Energy Agency is proposing the largest ever oil release from strategic reserves.

21:11The situation is obviously evolving quickly.

21:14Do we need to see a more proactive response from the EU here?

21:17Because we could see a big impact on European consumers.

21:20I think what this tells you is that the Iranian regime is at its weakest.

21:25Why?

21:26Because while 13%, as you quoted, of the EU's imports come from that Strait,

21:31but 100% of the Iranians' exports pass through that Strait.

21:35So this is a suicidal decision by the Iranian regime, which is in dire straits and which is at its

21:41weakest.

21:41And by appointing another Khamenei to the role of Supreme, it tells you all you need to know about this

21:48regime.

21:49The time of this regime is up.

21:51I've said it before and I say it again.

21:52Your response.

21:53For once, Macron is right when he sent the aircraft carrier to Cyprus and he's taking the frigates

22:02and also talking about the European defense of the Strait of Ormuz.

22:07It's not only about oil and gas.

22:09It's also our allies in the region.

22:12Gulf countries like the United Emirates.

22:14There are full thousands of European citizens working every day there.

22:19It's also a hub for millions of Europeans that they fly to other continents.

22:24It is a very attractive place and they have done it and they have approached us during these latest years.

22:30So we need to be by them.

22:32They are suffering the indiscriminate attacks from the regime.

22:36I think that the Europeans, we have to be very clear on that.

22:38And very briefly, EU leaders will be gathering in Brussels next week.

22:41Is there anything they should be doing now to prepare for a potential further spike in prices and the impact

22:46on the European economy?

22:48Yes, we should be, as Macron has stated, and also Ursula.

22:54And I don't want to advance because I don't want to give a different opinion.

22:57I rely on all of them united.

23:00But my ask is that Europe is there, present for our allies in the region, in the Gulf, to protect

23:08them.

23:09Not, again, not only the oil and gas.

23:11So it's about sending frigates to the region to patrol, to protect commercial vessels.

23:14The Strait of Hormuz, it's worldwide. It's not only Europe.

23:18It's worldwide stability.

23:20And that's what we have to be there for.

23:22The US is already doing this as well.

23:24We keep hearing, though, that this is not like 2022.

23:27This is not the crisis that we saw back then, the energy crisis when Russia invaded Ukraine.

23:33Do you think it's naive to say that EU needs to be more kind of proactive here, for example,

23:37in anticipating the possible impact on electricity prices?

23:41As I was saying from the start of this debate, we must be more strategically autonomous,

23:45not to react to future crises, but to be able to shape them.

23:49What does that mean? Does it mean more nuclear? Does it mean more green energy?

23:52What I wanted to say is that very well connected.

23:56Ukraine, what's going on in the Middle East, these are warning calls, wake-up calls for us Europeans,

24:02that we are surrounded by regimes, that they don't like our way of living, our democracy.

24:07And now, Europeans, we are understanding that we have to do something about it.

24:13Of course, the question of energy is crucial.

24:16Europe is dependent on energy.

24:17We do not produce energy by ourselves, enough for our powerful industry,

24:23for our jobs, also, for our social structure.

24:27Yeah, but not enough.

24:29Unfortunately, not enough yet to sustain our system.

24:33So we have to do something about it.

24:35Do you support what Wanderlein said earlier this week about more nuclear energy, going back to that?

24:39Well, I just discovered, as you know, and all of us,

24:42that now it's a green energy, by the way,

24:44recognized by the European institutions and by the European Parliament.

24:47So, good for that.

24:49Well, very briefly, just to close, do you think this should really propel efforts to invest more in either nuclear

24:56or green energies?

24:57100%. We should diversify to ensure that we are independent as much as possible.

25:03Okay.

25:04Now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round today.

25:12In our very last round of debate, I will ask you a set of very short questions,

25:17and I do require a very short answer, yes or no.

25:21Referendum.

25:22Yes or no, if possible.

25:24Let's start here with you, Daniel.

25:27Do you support the US and Israel's war on Iran?

25:33International complexities do not offer simple answers.

25:35No, yes or no, then?

25:37There are serious questions about the military operation,

25:39but it has brought us the closest to bring about a change in the regime.

25:43Okay.

25:44Do you support the war, yes or no?

25:45If there are, you know, ways to take out this regime in Iran,

25:49you know, that we are many.

25:51We have prayed for that for many years.

25:53Good.

25:54Is that the way?

25:55I don't know.

25:55We'll see now.

25:56Let's see if we get shorter on the second one.

25:58Do you believe the war can be a success for the West?

26:02You are making our life hard, eh?

26:04To answer yes or no.

26:05I can see.

26:06It is definitely a wake-up call,

26:08and with dubious intentions, there could be good outcomes.

26:12Okay.

26:13Wars are not successful, never.

26:17And especially when they are started by someone

26:19that is building out their nuclear capacities to end us.

26:23Let me give you an easier one.

26:25Is the war a threat to European security?

26:28Yes or no?

26:28Yes.

26:29Yes.

26:31Is the war that Donald Trump,

26:34but specifically Donald Trump himself,

26:36a threat to European security?

26:38Yes or no?

26:40The transatlantic relation has been a strength, not a threat.

26:45Is Donald Trump a threat?

26:46Transatlantic relation.

26:47Whoever is the president,

26:48I have relations with Democrats, Republicans,

26:51you know, whatever it is, you know,

26:52you can like it or not,

26:54but we have to work on that.

26:56Is the EU currently too reactive

27:00and not proactive enough in its response to the war?

27:03Yes.

27:04Is the EU too reactive and not proactive enough in its response?

27:08Yes.

27:09And is the crisis, would you say,

27:12a test of Europe's geopolitical credibility?

27:15Definitely.

27:17Absolutely.

27:18Okay.

27:19And that brings this edition of The Ring to an end.

27:22Thank you so much to our guests today,

27:25MEPs Antonio Lovetti-Sturiz and Daniel Attard.

27:28Thank you also to you at home for watching.

27:32We'll be back next week with another Head to Head.

27:34In the meantime,

27:35write to us with your suggestions at

27:37TheRing at Euronews.com

27:39and see you soon here on Euronews.

27:51Euronews.

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