00:00Zobaczmy, że zbawne 발생y od Brzegowskie.
00:08–Ambazador, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:11The war is ongoing, but the President of the U.S. seems to be changing the goalpost.
00:17First you said this is a 4-5-week war, now he says it is almost practically done.
00:22Is there really a plan?
00:23Well, that's a question that we are all, you know, really it's a general question. What is the goal of
00:31this operation? And is it going to change? Because at the beginning of the operation, Donald Trump, President Trump was
00:38saying that he wanted to change the regime to this, really in Iran.
00:45Następnie to pytanie, to pytanie, to pytanie, które zostało wyraźnie z Amerikami.
00:50A teraz pytanie, to pytanie, w tym sensie, zniszczyło się z militarną operatą.
00:58Właściwie, że generalnie jest to, że Trump wierzył się, że Iran wierzył się, że Venezuela wierzył się, że wierzył się,
01:08że wierzył się, że wierzył się.
01:13Wierzył się, że już pewnie zaczyna jutro, że mayor Entwicklung COVID-19, wierzył się, że wierzył się w urządę mieszkańczyć
01:25w Mierziny.
01:25Znaczy w hierzu przetergipe związane swojej strony jest do yol.
01:45I think that's what we are facing right now.
01:49I've got to ask you, of course, this is a very different president to Trump,
01:53because he always said he didn't want to force changes in countries,
01:56and now we're seeing a very different foreign policy agenda.
01:59So I've got to ask you, is this really an American war,
02:02or is this really Israel dragging the U.S. into war?
02:05I think it's a good question, because you know that Trump,
02:09even before he entered the political life,
02:12actually was criticizing the presidents, the American presidents,
02:17before him, because he was opposed to these military endeavors throughout the world.
02:23And for the MAGA crowd, I think it was an important element
02:27that the Americans, you know, really were not going to waste their money
02:33while, you know, the U.S. itself, there are a lot of things to change.
02:40Apparently, and it's quite a surprise, and frankly, personally, I didn't expect it.
02:45Suddenly, you have Donald Trump, who is engaged into a sort of neoconservative policy.
02:51The only difference right now with George H. Bush was,
02:55at the time, George H. Bush was dreaming of bringing democracy.
02:59He was using American military force to export democracy.
03:05While with Trump, Trump doesn't care about democracy.
03:10So the question is, and it's a question which is raised by a lot of Americans,
03:15is whether it's a decision that really Netanyahu has succeeded to convince Trump
03:23to enter into this war.
03:26I think it's a very negative question for the future of Israel,
03:31because it's going to be raised, really, it's going to feed in the MAGA crowd,
03:36where anti-Semitism has always been, you know, really a torment,
03:42really, I think, could be, it could have very negative consequences
03:46on the relationship between the U.S. and Israel.
03:50Of course, and we talked about anti-Semitism here, too, in Europe.
03:53But I've got to ask you then, then, if this is really an effort pushed by Israel,
03:58what is the goal for Prime Minister Netanyahu?
04:00I think for Israel, in a sense, everything has changed October the 7th.
04:06Still October the 7th, there is a sort of balance in the Middle East,
04:11really, and the border with Lebanon is still,
04:16and with Hamas, actually, there is, you know, also a modulative ending
04:22between Israel and the Hamas,
04:24since Israel was accepting Qatar to send money, to bring money to the Hamas.
04:30So there is a sort of balance.
04:33October the 7th was such a trauma for the Israelis,
04:37and also it was so serious that Israel had decided
04:43that we couldn't go down, go back to the situation of October the 6th.
04:48We wanted to really to change the geopolitical situation
04:54in the Middle East, in a sense, to impose a sort of
04:59in the Middle East.
05:02And they have been quite successful with the Hezbollah,
05:06really quite successful.
05:08So the last obstacle to the Israeli military supremacy is Iran.
05:15So sooner or later, really, Israel and Iran
05:20would confront really regularly and very directly.
05:26So I think for the Israelis right now,
05:28the question is to get rid of Iran
05:31as a great power in the Middle East.
05:34In the region?
05:35And that's what they are trying to do.
05:37So if tomorrow, I think Trump is tackle,
05:41if Trump is really saying,
05:43I'm leaving, I've won the war,
05:45this time I'm not convinced that Israel will stop,
05:49to stop the bombings.
05:51Of course, the message that we get with the line of succession
05:53is that the hardliners are still in place in Tehran.
05:56How do you see this playing out?
05:58Is there a scenario which ultimately they have no other choice
06:01but to get on the phone and talk to President Trump,
06:04even if until now it's just been retaliation
06:06and they've not picked up the phone that we know to Washington?
06:09No, I think that if I were, you know,
06:12I tried to be, if I were an Ayatollah,
06:15I would simply do what the Iranians are doing right now.
06:18And I think that right now they hope, again, as I have said,
06:23that Trump will leave, saying, I've won, I've killed Khamenei,
06:27and I have destroyed all the military capabilities of Iran.
06:32I'm leaving.
06:33And the result would be to have the both states suddenly facing,
06:38I think, a revenge, a full of, really, an Islamic republic full of revenge.
06:46And really, look at Khamenei, the sovereign, you know,
06:50the new, apparently, the new supreme leader.
06:53Really, you have to imagine his father, his mother, his son,
06:58his brother, his sister-in-law, his nephew,
07:01have been killed in a few days by the Americans.
07:05Really, he's a human being, whatever you think of him,
07:09he's going to make, I think, if the Americans leave,
07:12and I think they don't have the choice at the end of the day,
07:15he will want to have a revenge.
07:17And the gold stage will be actually very vulnerable.
07:21Of course, there's a question around the security himself for this individual.
07:24But I've got to ask you about the Europeans.
07:27Where is Europe in this crisis?
07:29And the fact I've got to ask you says a lot.
07:30When I was teaching international relations in Paris,
07:33I was always saying, if you have a question about Europeans,
07:37the first sentence that you should use is the Europeans will be divided.
07:41We are, by definition, divided because we are, you know,
07:46we have different powers, different geography, with different history.
07:50Obviously, you see, for instance, that Germany is sticking to the US
07:55and sticking to Israel.
07:57It's really, it's obvious.
07:58Most of the Europeans, I would say, are trying to hide themselves.
08:03They don't want to be taken between the American hammer and, again,
08:11maybe the Israeli handrail or the Iranian handrail.
08:14So most of the Europeans are looking the other way
08:18and waiting for the end of the crisis.
08:21We have some countries which are more active.
08:24Spain, Spain, really on the front line of really, really, really sticking
08:30to the international law and has been very active.
08:36Some say Spain has now taken the part of France.
08:39If there was an echo to the Iran invasion,
08:41some would say Spain is now the French voice at the time.
08:44Would you agree?
08:45I think, in a sense, to be frank, I think the Spanish prime minister
08:49was on the front line.
08:51The French have rejoined, really have rejoined the Spaniards.
08:56And now, one by one, the European countries are really assessing
09:01that the operation is in a dead end
09:05and also assessing that their public opinion is more and more moved
09:11by the suffering of the civilian population in Iran,
09:16but also in Lebanon.
09:17And if I may, just lastly, of course,
09:19the one woman who seems to want to be very active
09:22is the head of the European Commission.
09:24Are you surprised by the role that the head of the Commission
09:27is playing and wants to play?
09:28Is she in the rung or, ultimately, is she a smart operator?
09:31I am a bit, you know, really, I'm a bit surprised
09:34because she's out of her competence.
09:36You know, the treaty, which is the basis of the European Union,
09:42doesn't give her any special competence in foreign policy.
09:48On the top of that, she's sticking to a line,
09:52which, again, it's not the line of Spain,
09:55it's not the line of France, it's a German line.
09:59Really, so, especially, which is more important in a sense
10:04than the treaties, is the fact that the Europeans
10:08are the last flag bearer of international law.
10:12Really, it's, I should say, the DNA of the European Union
10:16is the international law.
10:20And to hear the president of the European Commission
10:24saying that, which, really, it's not that important,
10:28the way the Germans actually are saying,
10:31what the Germans are saying, frankly, you can, really,
10:35you can ask a lot of questions about that.
10:38Yes, I think there is a division in the European Union,
10:42not at a very bad moment, but, again, as I've told you,
10:47with the Europeans, they're always divided.
10:49But on this point, just very briefly,
10:51what she did say is that the EU stands for international law,
10:54but it cannot be the custodian of a world
10:56that no longer exists.
10:58Does she have a point, or is she in the wrong?
11:00Is this the wrong time to make that statement?
11:02You know, frankly, to be for, it's a bit like
11:07somebody who is, well, it's very French,
11:09somebody who is in the middle of adultery
11:11and is going, and is saying,
11:14oh, actually, I am in favor of the principle
11:17of marital fidelity while committing adultery.
11:23It's not, the international law is not only a principle,
11:28you know, really coming from heaven,
11:30but it's a policy,
11:32and which means that it should have consequences,
11:37and we should, the Europeans, really, in a sense,
11:40saying we have to react,
11:43to react against Israel and against the U.S.
11:48Well, Ambassador, thank you so much
11:49on the geopolitics and marriage, too.
11:52Thank you for joining us.
11:53Always great to see you.
11:54Thank you.
11:55A pleasure.
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