00:11Das ist eine Frage, dass wir all, you know, wirklich, it's a general question.
00:30What is the goal of this operation?
00:33And is it going to change?
00:35Because at the beginning of the operation, Donald Trump, President Trump, was saying that he wanted to change the regime
00:43to this, really, in Iran.
00:45After that, it was the question, the nuclear question, which was raised by the Americans.
00:50And now it's a question of, in a sense, destroying the military Iranian apparatus.
00:58Well, the general impression is that Trump really thought that Iran would react the way that Venezuela reacted.
01:07Apparently, it didn't work.
01:09Apparently, the Iranians really have made the choice of waiting.
01:15I'm sure that they believe that sooner or later, the president, President Trump, went, as the Americans say, taco.
01:25You know that they taco.
01:27The American president is going, in a sense, to chicken out.
01:31And really, to say, considering the price of the oil, considering the situation in the Gulf, that basically, at some
01:40moment, Trump is going to say, I am the winner.
01:43And it's the end of the story.
01:46I think that's what we are facing right now.
01:49I've got to ask you, of course, this is a very different President Trump, because he always said he didn't
01:54want to force changes in countries.
01:56And now we're seeing a very different foreign policy agenda.
01:59So I've got to ask you, is this really an American war or is this really Israel dragging the U
02:04.S. into war?
02:05I think it's a good question, because you know that Trump, really, even before he entered the political life, actually
02:13was criticizing the presidents, the American presidents before him, because he was opposed to these military endeavors throughout the world.
02:23And for the MAGA crowd, I think it was an important element that the Americans, you know, really were not
02:30going to waste their money while, you know, while, you know, the U.S. itself, there are a lot of
02:37things to change.
02:40Apparently, and it's quite a surprise, and frankly, personally, I didn't expect it, suddenly you have Donald Trump, who is
02:48engaged into a sort of neoconservative policy.
02:51But the only difference right now with George H. Bush was, at the time, George H. Bush was dreaming of
02:58bringing democracy.
02:59He was using American military force to export democracy.
03:05While with Trump, Trump doesn't care about democracy.
03:09So, the question is, and it's a question which is raised by a lot of Americans, is whether it's a
03:17decision that really Netanyahu has succeeded to convince Trump to enter into this war.
03:26I think it's a very negative question for the future of Israel, because it's going to be raised, really, it's
03:34going to feed in the MAGA crowd, where anti-Semitism has always been, you know, really torment.
03:41Really, I think it could be, it could have very negative consequences on the relationship between the U.S. and
03:49Israel.
03:50Of course, and we talked about anti-Semitism here, too, in Europe.
03:53But I've got to ask you then, if this is really an effort pushed by Israel, what is the goal
03:59for Prime Minister Netanyahu?
04:00I think for Israel, in a sense, everything has changed October the 7th.
04:06Still, October the 7th, there is a sort of balance in the Middle East, really, and the border with Lebanon
04:15is still, and with Hamas, actually, there is, you know, also a modular event between Israel and Hamas,
04:24since Israel was accepting Qatar to send money, to bring money to the Hamas.
04:30So there is a sort of balance.
04:33October the 7th was such a trauma for the Israelis, and also was so serious that Israel had decided that
04:43we couldn't go down, go back to the situation of October the 6th.
04:48We wanted to really to change the geopolitical situation in the Middle East, in a sense, to impose a sort
04:58of hegemony in the Middle East.
05:02And they have been quite successful with the Hezbollah, really quite successful.
05:08So the last obstacle to the Israeli military supremacy is Iran.
05:15So sooner or later, really, Israel and Iran would confront really regularly and very directly.
05:26So I think for the Israelis right now, the question is to get rid of Iran as a great power
05:33in the Middle East.
05:34And that's what they are trying to do.
05:37So if tomorrow, I think Trump is tackle, if Trump is really saying, I'm leaving, I've won the war, this
05:46time I'm not convinced that Israel will stop the bombings.
05:50Of course, the message that we get with the line of succession is that the hardliners are still in place
05:56in Tehran.
05:57How do you see this playing out?
05:58Is there a scenario which ultimately they have no other choice but to get on the phone and talk to
06:03President Trump, even if until now it's just been retaliation and they've not picked up the phone that we know
06:08to Washington?
06:09No, I think that if I were, you know, I tried to be, if I were an Ayatollah, I would
06:15certainly do what the Iranians are doing right now.
06:18And I think that right now they hope, again, as I have said, that Trump will leave, saying I've won,
06:26I've killed Khamenei, and I have destroyed all the military capabilities of Iran, I'm leaving.
06:33And the result would be to have the both states suddenly facing, I think, a revenge, a full of, really
06:43an Islamic Republic full of revenge.
06:46And really look at Khamenei, you know, the new, apparently the new Supreme Leader, really you have to imagine his
06:55father, his mother, his son, his brother, his sister-in-law, his nephew have been killed in a few days
07:03by the Americans.
07:05Really, he's a human being, whatever you think of him, he is going to make, I think, if the Americans
07:11leave, and I think they don't have the choice at the end of the day, he will want to have
07:16a revenge.
07:17And the gold stage will be actually very vulnerable.
07:21Of course, there's a question around the security himself for this individual.
07:24But I've got to ask you about the Europeans.
07:27Where is Europe in this crisis?
07:29And the fact I've got to ask you says a lot.
07:30When I was teaching international relations in Paris, I was always saying, if you have a question about Europeans, the
07:37first sentence that you should use is the Europeans will be divided.
07:42We are, by definition, divided because we are, you know, we have different powers, different geography, with different history.
07:50Obviously, you see, for instance, that Germany is sticking to the U.S. and sticking to Israel.
07:57It's really, it's obvious.
07:58Most of the Europeans, I would say, are trying to hide themselves.
08:03They don't want to be taken between the American hammer and, again, maybe the Israeli handrail or the Iranian handrail.
08:14So most of Europeans are looking the other way and waiting for the end of the crisis.
08:21We have some countries which are more active.
08:24Spain.
08:25Spain has been really on the front line of really, really, really sticking to the international law and has been
08:35very active.
08:36Some say Spain has now taken the part of France.
08:39If there was an echo to the Iran invasion, some would say Spain is now the French voice at the
08:44time.
08:44Would you agree?
08:45I think, I think, in a sense, to be frank, I think the Spanish prime minister was on the front
08:50line.
08:51The French have rejoined, really have rejoined the Spaniards.
08:55And now, one by one, the European countries are really assessing that the operation is in a dead end and
09:05also assessing that their public opinion is more and more moved by the suffering of the civilian population in Iran,
09:16but also in Lebanon.
09:16And if I may, just lastly, of course, the one woman who seems to want to be very active is
09:23the head of the European Commission.
09:24Are you surprised by the role that the head of the Commission is playing and wants to play?
09:28Is she in the wrong or ultimately is she a smart operator?
09:31I am a bit, you know, really, I'm a bit surprised because she's out of her competence.
09:36You know, the treaty, the European, the treaty, which is the basis of the European Union, doesn't give her any
09:44special competence in foreign policy.
09:48On the top of that, she's she's sticking to a line, which, again, it's not the line of Spain.
09:54It's not the line of France.
09:56It's a German line, really.
10:00So, especially, which is more important, in a sense, than the treaties, is the fact that the Europeans are the
10:09last flag bearer of international law.
10:12Really, it's, I should say, the DNA of the European Union is the international law.
10:20And to hear the president of the European Commission saying that, which really, it's not that important, the way the
10:29Germans actually are saying, what the Germans are saying, frankly, you can really, you can ask a lot of questions
10:37about that.
10:38Yes, I think there is a division in the European Union, not at a very bad moment.
10:45But again, as I've told you, with the Europeans, they're always divided.
10:49But on this point, just very briefly, what she did say is that the EU stands for international law, but
10:54it cannot be the custodian of a world that no longer exists.
10:58Does she have a point or is she in the wrong?
11:00Is this the wrong time to make that statement?
11:02You know, frankly, to be for, it's a bit like somebody who is, well, it's very French, somebody is in
11:10the middle of adultery and is going and is saying, oh, actually, I am in favor of the principle of
11:17marital fidelity.
11:19While committing, while committing adultery.
11:23It's not, the international law is not only a principle, you know, really coming from heaven, but it's a policy.
11:33And which means that it should have consequences.
11:37And we should, the Europeans, really, in a sense, saying we have to react, to react against Israel and against
11:47the U.S.
11:48Well, Ambassador, thank you so much on the geopolitics and marriage, too.
11:52Thank you for joining us.
11:53Always great to see you.
11:54Thank you.
11:55A pleasure.
11:56Thank you.
11:56Thank you.
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