00:00Zhang Lanshin is Zhejiang Chair Professor at East China Normal University in Shanghai.
00:07China for a long time prefer to see a triangular relationship or triangular play, so to speak, between US, Europe
00:19and China.
00:21But unfortunately, Europe did not take on that role and the European made miscalculations.
00:28The last few years in particular, I would say since 2019, when they start talking about China being systemic rival.
00:39Now, this is one of the worst mistakes the EU authority made.
00:46Since that time, there is no real triangular relationship because the EU prefer to stay with the US,
00:54hoping to align with the US to deal with China.
00:59That's the meaning of a systemic rival, supposed to be.
01:04And eventually also develop into something called de-risking policy vis-à-vis economic relation with China.
01:13Now, what the EU mistake has become obvious because it is, and finally realizing that it's falling between two stools,
01:24between China and the US.
01:26It is the United States that changed position.
01:30The EU realized the US has become totally unreliable.
01:34There is no transatlantic agenda seriously on China because the US does not need Europe.
01:42So this is something I think Wang Yi particularly tried to explain.
01:46In that way, from the European side about becoming too dependent on China,
01:51Wang Yi said that interdependence is not a risk and that intertwined interests are not a threat.
01:56But is that something that European leaders can take seriously as they try to be more strategically autonomous from the
02:02United States?
02:05Well, they have been talking about that since 2018, since von der Leyen, the first that came to the position
02:14of the European leadership.
02:16But they never pursued it.
02:19So-called strategic autonomy means very little when Europe did not really play the role,
02:27as China would hope, as a third serious pull of the international system.
02:34As you say, the triangular relation.
02:36But the EU, last few years, chose to marginalize itself because they really depended on transatlantic tie.
02:46It's not a question that it depends on China per se.
02:50It's mainly depending on transatlantic tie.
02:53That tie is no longer dependable.
02:56What do you think China's message to the world is amid today's geopolitical turmoil?
03:03And how does it see its role?
03:05I think, you know, the message is very clear.
03:08China is the leading defender of the UN's system.
03:13And Wang Yi actually used the expression, China be the most important factor for world peace.
03:24We used to be more modest, saying we are one of the leading factors.
03:29But now, Wang Yi tried to say we are the most important factor for keeping world peace.
03:35Because we don't want to go back to jungle rules.
03:39So, thanks.
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