- 1 giorno fa
KIEV - «Attaccare gli obbiettivi militari iraniani penso sia stata una buona decisione. Gli iraniani producono un mucchio di armi per la Russia, specie droni e missili, anche se adesso credo non potranno più farlo e forse saranno i russi ad armare a loro volta gli iraniani», ci dice Volodymyr Zelensky in quasi cinquanta minuti di intervista nel suo ufficio. (Qui l'intervista completa)
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14:35after the war will end now we don't know when the war will end so and what we work on
14:41this
14:42so this is a progress yes but this is enough is this enough no and we are still in 20
14:50points plan
14:51at the position of of the land issue you know that americans wanted swap the territories russians
14:59wanted us withdraw from the territory yes and americans created the idea of swap and uh swap
15:07when we began to speak about this position uh it's not in our interest the swap detectors because
15:14when they when they said that they will withdraw from our territories when they show from where
15:20it's mostly a pieces of the lands which are through the border but we know that they can't control it
15:30they can't control because they need forces to control through the border the places different
15:35places they need a lot of forces for them they don't have enough and they know that in some time
15:40we will push them out in so for me it's not the swap the second reason what the swap we
15:49we can't swap
15:50our territory to our territory that was my argument from the very beginning but at the end we began to
15:57to speak only about eastern part of ukraine about part of the bars 5800 square kilometers and i said that
16:06my position is let's try to push this uh war to the end by diplomatic issues let's stay where we
16:17stay
16:17that was the first idea of the united states let freeze the boils and i was agreed with this not
16:25everybody
16:25was agreed in ukraine by the way because it's compromise for us and we said okay we will support
16:31the idea of president trump it was his first big idea let's just stop and then find a way maybe
16:39we will
16:39not find maybe not five years maybe not ten years but nobody will will be dead because of stopping
16:46killings so we supported this idea but i was sure that at the moment when we will support this idea
16:53russia will give new idea right it's always they always do this way and that's why now russians are
17:01far away from this idea they want us to withdraw and americans find a new idea the new idea is
17:08next you
17:08you know there's free economic zone right they will have a nice on the both sides yes it's my opinion
17:15was
17:16i said it will be difficult to me to speak about it with ukrainian people but if you propose us
17:23free
17:24economic zone it has to be from both sides that what i said to them but we don't see that
17:30russians are
17:31ready for this they said no we speak about free economic zone on your territory it's unbelievable
17:41it's brazenness it's crazy madness crazy sir is there any way that if you get enough guarantee
17:50from the european from the nato from america really with troops on the ground you could at one point
17:56renounce to all the donbass to the 20 percent which is still in your hands or never what what is
18:01your
18:01policy first of all uh russians will be against uh of europe european representatives yes military troops
18:14and etc they will be against the question with uh in this case we have to think about it
18:22with americans and europeans europe has to be more tough in this position it doesn't matter what
18:29russians are ready or not really we speak about when we have ceasefire who is on our territory we don't
18:38speak who is on the territory of russia they could be they can involve chinese india i don't know i'm
18:48not
18:48asking who is there even now they have from their territory ten thousand north korean soldiers i'm not
18:56asking yeah why they are here i'm not asking this is your turn if i listen just correct me if
19:02i'm
19:02mistaken if i listen carefully what you say you you are not against i mean if there will be the
19:09proper
19:10condition you could consider the withdrawal from the full donbass to the plate crematos now
19:17there will be enough i was not i've always clear with this i will never i will never just withdraw
19:27and just a young solicitor leave yes leave our people who live there two hundred thousand people
19:36leaving why i have to withdraw from our territory which we control which is the condition is putting
19:43in the poll they will have new conditions after this that's why i said that no we have the conditions
19:50stay we stay this is the most quickly i have a lot of questions with this first it's not fair
19:56okay second
19:58it's our constitution okay the third point just physically this is our defending plan for us it's very
20:05dangerous if we withdraw the next point if we withdraw and they said that no europeans who will be american
20:14there okay i'm asking americans will you be there they said maybe okay but who can guarantee us that in
20:23one time i don't want to compare i don't want to compare but we remember afghanistan
20:31what will be if one time not during trump next or in 10 years the president will say of the
20:39united
20:40said withdraw from there who can guarantee us nobody we need strong defending lines now we have them
20:48there but if we will withdraw we will not have these defending lines then it's our people two hundred
20:57thousand people they said they can be there or they can live out what does how how they can imagine
21:04they will live out so again the consequence of the iranian attack putin criticized this attack
21:14criticized america it is like american you think that will influence the negotiation the trump can be a
21:21little you were quite critical of the question that you were afraid of the new economic understanding
21:26between russia and russia and washington you say that i'm afraid that they are they will get
21:31expensive of ukraine exactly but you think that now because putin is reacting not literally but by what
21:38he's criticizing this attack you think that will push putin sorry trump to be a little more on your side
21:46hope so but then you don't know i don't know really i don't know i don't know but he saw
21:53that putin
21:54how he supported how he supported how he supported just words it's nothing words are nothing americans made
22:07made a huge operation and what did russia i think he showed putin how they can work
22:17so on the military situation on the ground i saw you're not happy he's happy is a bad goal you
22:26lose
22:26too many soldiers but you still you spoke about these 300 kilometers you you you regain recently 400
22:32already 400 now by the way 400 now by the way 400 yesterday yeah yesterday uh yesterday uh yesterday no
22:41will i pull it by the way they still fight there it's not but but it's near it's near this
22:48is the
22:48direction yeah but it's for yesterday yesterday i had brief from our chief of uh defense chief military
22:59leadership yes general 60 and 460 for recovering from the beginning of the month from this year from this year
23:09right okay so but still you know we're all mentioning this uh analysis one million and 300 thousand russian
23:16killed or injured or lost but also the national 145 40 millions you are about 30 million at the
23:26the moment in ukraine after the big uh wave of uh of refugee uh still you pay not i mean
23:35there are
23:36shooting still things that he can win putin is still making the war uh time he seems that time is
23:43on his
23:43side in spite of this 400 kilometer again putin is preparing the spring offensive he's still bombing your
23:51uh energy uh energy energy system what what is the evaluation how do you see try to negotiate try to
24:00make dialogue not to be against and they're not against by the way in any format as i say trilateral
24:07bilateral doesn't try to negotiate but in parallel way be strong produce more uh defending capacities
24:17produce more drones and use more technically drones and go to the world where we use more technical
24:27resources not people yes think about it and we are thinking about it and we did a lot of things
24:34like
24:36technical evacuation without human beings and we and now we are doing against drones a lot of different
24:44different interceptors and different weapons uh different types yes we want to use less people
24:54and i think this war is moving to this uh forward so you can still resist you think in spite
25:01of putin
25:01pushing and no sign of ending this world you use you are this the military you can still win on
25:08any
25:13and this is good then russia began to lose a lot of people they began to lose 30 35 000
25:23per month it's
25:25big number huge number really and he's yes now he is his plan they adopted the plan to move to
25:34the
25:35400 000 new 400 000 yes but his army stopped increasing he wants it but his losses are the same
25:47of his
25:48contracts the number of losses is the same similar so this is where we are but when his army will
25:56begin
25:56to decrease i think his position will be weak at the negotiation table and you don't have similar
26:03problems i mean we have problems we have problems you have also problem we have of course of course
26:09but we are we are very open of this we said that we have this question we have this problem
26:15that's
26:15why we want to stop this war we didn't want to begin it of course yeah so but on the
26:21other side
26:22there is a rise of hope there is three now so what do you think the winter offensive the attempt
26:27of putin to
26:28make the ukrainian the ukrainian people freezing attacking the energy system when it was minus 25
26:34almost minus 30. we have been here for the last three months with you so we all were on the
26:39same boat
26:41do you think that he lost the winter you saw this week i thought it's weird he lost winter
26:48he wanted very much to divide us totally society to divide society and army then to divide army where
26:58partially people want to go out they wanted to divide society some of them support the government
27:05some of them against push people to the streets because of electricity because of heating system
27:11deficit with all of this but he lost
27:15so now with this new temperature which is there's no melting there's no melting the symbol for you
27:22the the neutral ice is over so
27:27that means that the winter you you pass the winter we passed you know mr kelly a few weeks ago
27:34say
27:35that if ukrainian will be able to pass the winter maybe can we
27:42what did you remember it's very optimistic now you know we our strategy is next we won this winter
27:54now we will have new challenge from russians you're fighting for spring spring offensive yes but but we we
28:02we understand that they are preparing but i think that they will lose a lot of people again
28:06we understand what they want to do and and etc but in any way this is a challenge for our
28:12soldiers
28:14in any case even passing this winter in any case we have each day losses that's why our strategy is
28:23to
28:23stop the war and to show putin that he's not winning he's losing all these big losses it's about
28:32it's about it's about budget he has to understand recognize estimate at the end that his losses are
28:40very very expensive and that's why he needs to finish this war sir i'm very grateful to your time i
28:48try to uh i know that i had half an hour i think it was over but i have two
28:53questions to ask you uno uh europe
28:56can you replace america because europe is really using that now there was the problem with urban
29:05blocking the 90 billions but later to here but is what is the role of europe did you see changing
29:12it and
29:13can europe really in your not only financial political part but military partner do you see a change
29:20is it changing for you um first of all last two years we shared understanding what number of
29:30factors europe has and what money really europe has we shared with them our idea that we need common
29:38forces common no we are not involved in europe to the world but common forces in the moment if
29:46not bad nobody counted united states will withdraw from europe no but they give such signals publicly
29:55that's why if united states will want to get their forces back to the united states out of europe yeah
30:05europe has to be ready what does it mean europe has enough factories but they are not
30:13developed they are not developed well that they need our experience and put more money our knowledge
30:22and their money and these defending factories defending sector will be in europe great the second point
30:30they have good roots with americans really and they need to get licenses from americans because americans have
30:40licenses from military factories of europe for patriots for artillery are the different drones not too much
30:49drones because we have i mean we we have the best expertise we will give it to you teach to
30:55europe yeah
30:57so so i said that we need to build defending lines when i said common forces it means common defending
31:04lines lines common drone walls in europe different sectors which will defending lines in europe and
31:12where we can destroy everything from russia if they will want to attack everything
31:19as a bottom line can you can you replace america is you replacing already american not today not today
31:29because they are not ready yet they are a little bit slower than that can be but they are much
31:38more
31:38quicker than it's been before but in europe there are forces european forces we talk about the stream
31:46right in germany right in germany in france in italy they need to have our production clearly in any case
31:58against the military you have to to clean your forces which are anti-anti-ukrainian
32:07everything can be urban oh look orban is
32:16orban is big when big guys recognize him he's not so big he's very loud hungary is the country of
32:26very good people but this country from the military side they are not strong are you going to meet them
32:35what happened with the people no no we look we have some i i had conversation with fix because i
32:44don't speak
32:45because he doesn't but you spoke with him but you remember you are the european panel yes when he
32:52needed he spoke i uh prefer to have real relations between countries it means that relations which are
33:04are not uh based only on uh personalities it's institutions he will be changed god bless in the
33:12soon in soon future i will be another person but we still need relations between the countries that's
33:20why we need economy military and etc relations orban is another person he's pushing all all this you know
33:29uh how to say pro-russian position to the relation between nations but hungarians are not pro-russian
33:36and that's why i said to him look you want us to sell you or to give you russian oil
33:44i said him from the very beginning about gas and oil we can't give money to russia for this world
33:51they
33:51will spend this money from this oil to the world but if you said that it's a strategy energy strength
33:59energy you have also to speak with russians and speak about this world but you are supporting russians
34:06what was when putin attacked drushman what was at this moment orban said said ukrainian that you have
34:16to renovate he didn't say to putin don't attack him and now what what happened to now i spoke with
34:25speech so i said to him if you want to manage this problem you have to come to us they
34:30blocked everything
34:30for us and now they want us to repair it again again so putin attacked several times
34:38drushman when he attacked first time we renovated when he attacked seven second time and people who
34:45are they have been wounded and now they want me to push people again to renovate for what because they
34:54want to block everything for ukraine and that's why i said to feature look it's destroyed don't
35:00lie it's destroyed they attacked can we renovate tell putin uh ceasefire don't attack drushman don't
35:11attack ukrainian land it's a good question good answer sir italy what do you think what's meloni
35:17meloni is in the middle between america and europe just you know a sentence she's smart
35:24and italy is giving you some guns because there are so many debates you cannot imagine in the parliament
35:31the air defense defense uh something and stuff something we wanted to more they gave
35:42how they can how they could so how many they could uh it's a problem with their defense i mean
35:48that all the countries i don't know what you have in your storages it's always big problem not
35:54too much yeah i know i know i know but meloni you still think meloni is on the right side
36:01of history
36:04are you going to candidate yourself for the next election when there will be the possibility
36:09the question is when it will be and when they will be after the war i don't know yeah so
36:16i don't know if
36:17the elections uh will be after the war after the war will end not freeze the country of course
36:25because the street is very dangerous because it can begin again if the war will end real and i'm not
36:34sure that i will go you're not sure yeah i don't know it depends on a lot of different when
36:39it will be
36:40but you're very young what do you do you're so young go to georgia to eat nothing no wait so
36:49it's
36:50we will see it depends we have to do things what people want we i think we're not children i
37:01love
37:01but we are adults we can recognize people support you or not if people support you very much you can
37:09think about it i'm not from the person that you see that the people don't support you for example
37:17but you try to do everything to but to find a way how to be reelected it's not my case
37:26if you see that people need you you're very popular and people support you it means that they
37:32want you to continue i will think about it doesn't mean that i will go i will think about it
37:38because
37:38it's about my country it's about people but when you don't see it yes forward you know when i talk
37:55corruption people say you can do enough with corruption we have anti-corruption institutions people
38:05like when we fight against corruption but people have to understand if we want to have independent
38:13anti-corruption institutions independent president has not to influence it's really a fact if we want
38:24from president uh from president yes but it means it has to be his vertical in ukraine like in eu
38:33we
38:33have all the laws of the reforms of anti-corruption institution they are independent they have to fight
38:42against corruption president has to support have support yes that's it that's it sir i thank you very
38:51much thank you so much can i ask you there is a very good friend of mine in italy a
38:55colleague in
38:56the career he would like to be a signature of you i will bring it to him tomorrow when i
39:00go back
39:00okay he would like he asked me from the our office in the foreign office in in the korea
39:08i will i will write glory to ukraine it's meant that's all right yes you just you want it very
39:16much
39:16you just you want your signature okay
39:17okay
39:18okay
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