Skip to playerSkip to main content
chtv38
  • 7 hours ago
Dragons Den UK S23 E05

Category

📺
TV
Transcript
00:02the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:19and steal the deals tonight i'm jenny meek i'm a serial entrepreneur i'm currently the
00:27co-founder and ceo of refi beauty jenna welcome back to the den no thank you for having me back
00:33i'm excited for the day when i look into the eyes of an entrepreneur there is literally one thing i'm
00:38looking for it's their belief that their idea is going to succeed i can see in people's eyes if
00:43they're lying to me i know exactly what i can bring to a business so if there's a fight for
00:47an
00:47investment i will be absolutely fighting for it i love disagreeing with the dragons i really really
00:52do i am not scared of any of the dragons if anything they should be scared of me
01:08i'm zahira my business is called hattie i want to start a movement of human connection
01:14and my pitch starts in quite a unique way i'm just trying to throw the dragons a little bit
01:22off kilter
01:26okay absolutely no idea zero idea i'm stuck there's something a bit eerie about it there is something a
01:35bit eerie
01:40my perfect match in a dragon for my business would be stephen he understands like the millennium
01:46generation the gen z generation can really get us front and center
01:49authentication and the eternity and then i cannot afford to let me get you ready to lift it with a
02:19james
02:19Hello, Dragons. I'm Zee, and I'm the founder of Hattie.
02:23We are gathered here today to finally lay to rest traditional dating apps.
02:28Because for those of us, like myself, who are in such a real human connection,
02:32they've wasted enough of our time. Now, before I tell you any more, I wanted to give you
02:38a quick question. I can either continue to pitch this to you myself, or I can put the rest of
02:44the
02:44pitch up on the screen behind me, lay in this coffin and allow you to read it. The choice is
02:49yours.
02:50I'd say get in the coffin. You should never ask that of a dragon. We're all going to say get
02:55in
02:55the coffin. Okay, I'm really going to need you to let me pitch this to you, please, rather than just
02:59reading the screen. You're all right. Go on. No, we'd love to hear from you instead. It would have
03:04been really awkward if you actually wanted me to get in the coffin. Because let's face it,
03:07you'd never make a business decision over text alone. So why are we dating that way?
03:1280% of users of traditional dating apps are emotionally burnt out by them. And I should
03:17know because I'm one of them. After deleting them for what felt like the hundredth time,
03:22I hit my absolute breaking point. And from the ashes of my absolute despair at that point,
03:27Hattie was born. The online dating industry is potentially worth over $9 billion. And yet today,
03:33only 15 to 20% of matches ever turn into a two-way conversation. On Hattie, we're completely
03:39flipping the script. Instead, every single match will turn into a five-minute scheduled voice or
03:45video call. So once you connect, there's no messaging, there's no dialing in, there's no
03:50scheduling. The app automatically does it for you. There's no exchanging numbers. The app calls you
03:54both at the right time and connects you. After the call, you choose. You can speak to that person again
04:00or end the match forever. We launched on the 14th of February. We made revenue in 10 days and we've
04:06already grown to over 5,000 downloads. Today, I'm offering you the opportunity to invest £150,000
04:14for 5% of a business that will become the next unicorn. Dragons, this isn't just an investment
04:19in an app. It's an investment in re-humanising the way that we find love. Are you in?
04:25You're going to have to wait to find out. I was really hoping you were just going to go straight
04:30to yes.
04:34Looking to spark a connection with a dragon is online romance revolutionary Zahira and her next
04:42generation dating app. The entrepreneur is seeking £150,000 for a 5% share in her business.
04:52First to lean in with a question is Deborah Meaden.
05:00So, I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name, did you say? Zee. Zee. Well, my full name is Zahira,
05:05but everyone calls me Zee. Zee. Okay, so, I mean, the idea sounds great. Just explain where you are
05:14with the business at the moment. What's your revenue model and how much money have you made
05:18to date? I'm assuming you mean February the 14th this year you started, right? So, it is quite new.
05:23Brand new and like my whole point with launching it was to prove that there is a different revenue
05:28model you can have against a dating app. So, some of the traditional ones took anywhere between two
05:32and five years to monetize. So, one of the ways we make revenue is through booking dates through the
05:38app. So, we get a commission for every date that's been booked. The other way is we've integrated with
05:43dating coaching and mental health because my philosophy isn't just get people on better dates,
05:48dates. It's actually make people better daters. So, we also get commission from any dating coaching
05:53that's been booked through the app and then eventually we want to trial things like minimum
05:56subscription. So, it's everyone and it's not a lot. It's like $2.99 a month. Is that the longest
06:01version of you saying it's pre-revenue that I have ever heard in my life? So, we've only made
06:05about £48 of revenue so far. Okay. All of those words you gave were good and really interesting
06:11but you're pre-revenue really. Pre-revenue, yeah. Okay. So, you've got 5,000 people signed up. How
06:16many of those are actually active users? So, it varies on the day. We've had about 17,500 likes sent.
06:23We've had 100 phone calls but a lot of people have now run out of people to actually go on
06:29a date with.
06:29So, we largely grew through like organic TikTok. So, we had a couple of videos go massively viral.
06:35Just me explaining the concept but then you get users all over the country. You don't just get them
06:39in London which is a real problem because really it's this is hyper localized right? So, you want to
06:44launch in London and then scale it. So, yeah. Zee, I have a lot of experience in this industry.
06:52I've spent some time with the founder and CEO of Hinge. I've also spent some time with the CEO of
06:58Tinder. Good friends with the CEO of Bumble. So, this is a very difficult challenge right? And
07:03a lot of everything you've said about people's dismay and dissatisfaction with dating apps is so
07:08unbelievably true. I hear it all the time from everybody and I would just hate to be on the
07:12dating app circuit. And that video that went viral. Yeah. What were you saying in the video?
07:19Literally just me explaining the concept. And what part of it was resonant? I think, A, it's very novel
07:25right? We've completely scrapped messaging. The app auto schedules you a five minute call with your
07:29date. But, um, so I think there's a couple of things in the community aspect of it of like,
07:34we will only accept people on there who are willing to actually get verified. And also we have a ghosting
07:39penalty. So, if people don't turn up, they get banned from that. And I think that's resonating for a lot
07:44of reasons right now. Because the younger generation are demanding more, the Gen Z lot, who are like,
07:49no, we want human connection. Like, they want raw authenticity in a way that I don't think the
07:55traditional dating apps have. So you're, you're the anti-dating app. You've taken every feature
08:00that people hate about the traditional dating environment and basically you're trying to do
08:04the opposite. So there's a narrative there. Z, Z, um, you've come in with a three million valuation
08:13and a project that's been worked on for a few months. How can you justify that?
08:19So part of the reason for that is I've got a letter of intent from an investor at four and
08:23a half
08:23million. But I completely recognize how much value you would all bring to the table. How much is that
08:28investor going to bring? 150k? Yeah, I think you should have signed that and got that money.
08:36Then you wouldn't have needed to come here. I think this is still an incredible opportunity
08:41though, right? Like, whether I walk out with money or the chance to just have interacted with all of
08:45you. No, I do. But I think, I think it's, you've come in with a valuation of, of three million
08:50and you're pre-revenue. You can't for one minute have thought that that wouldn't be fairly controversial.
08:59I agree. It is controversial. So what about you? What have you done from a business perspective?
09:06Because that would justify why. Have you done something from a business perspective before
09:11and made millions from the seed of an idea? No. So how do you, where do you get the valuation
09:16and
09:16what's the reason and rationale for the valuation? Because it's quite punchy. I think, so part of it is
09:22that what I'm looking for the 150k for is really to get to 100,000 users. And then assuming that
09:28one
09:28percent of our user base book a therapy session once a month, that's 25 pounds for every therapy
09:34session that gets booked. So that gives you 25k a month in revenue from that. We then get between
09:40three and 12 pounds per date. And if you assume that 10% of our date date, like user base
09:46goes on
09:46one date, you make another like 50 grand from just commission from that. So for me, like, yes,
09:52the valuation is high, but I think for me, there's a huge growth opportunity here. And it's about
09:57looking at the future growth of the business. You see, I've never used a date app. And the numbers
10:07you're talking about, commissions are in relation to where you're going, it's very small. Get a
10:13percentage of a date. Get a percentage of therapy. That's not going to make, those bits are not going
10:24to make the next unicorn. So for that reason, I'm going to let you carry on with the other dregs.
10:31I'm out. Well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks, Tuka. Zee, hi. Hi. This is a world to me that
10:41I just don't understand tech. They talk about building it up at work and then they go, oh,
10:45it blows my mind. And so for that reason, I am out, but I wish you the best of luck.
10:50I appreciate it.
10:52And Zee, I think this is a market that's clearly very overcrowded. It's not something that I would
11:01want to invest in. So I'm going to say that I'm out, but it's not a reflection of you as
11:07an
11:07individual for the way you've presented. Thank you. I absolutely echo that. You've presented really,
11:13really well. And I feel like anything that you came up with, you will find a way to make it
11:18successful. I have a bit of a worry for you. My worry is you are working in a space where
11:25a lot of your competitors have to win. So if you do find that magic combination that says, ah,
11:33that's where we earn our money. Your competitors are in a situation where they can just say, oh,
11:40that's working. Okay, let's do it. That is a big risk for you. So I'm really sorry,
11:47but I won't be investing. I'm out. Zee, this is a, I think this is a really perfect
11:56business for me because I'm particularly interested in community loneliness and how technology can solve
12:02that at scale. Putting like 150 grand bet on this at this point
12:17is just like too high of a bet to make. Can I convince you of one data point?
12:22What's that? Do you know Tim Ferriss? Yeah.
12:25So Tim Ferriss went on the Modern Wisdom podcast last year and he said, can someone just build a
12:30dating app where the sole purpose is a 10 minute voice or video call? We did five. That's just our
12:36thought process, but he is one of the best tech investors in Silicon Valley. I think even if you don't
12:43want to invest today and I can completely understand why, what I would love is if you do know Tim
12:47Ferriss,
12:48an introduction to him and Simon Sinek, because Simon Sinek is actually one of my biggest
12:51inspirations for this because he always talks about the eight minute call.
13:06Just give me a minute.
13:13It's a big problem. I understand the problem.
13:23I am going to make you an offer. However, if I'm investing 150,000 pounds in a business at this
13:32stage, which I consider to be, with all due respect, an idea, I consider myself basically a partner in the
13:40business. Okay. So you asked for 150,000 for 5% of your business. I will make you an offer
13:51to give you
13:53all of the money for 35% of the business.
14:06Vampire, as you would call me. I call everybody. But it's just, there's just no, there's just no,
14:10I just can't see another way. Okay. Well, somebody just turned in their grave in the, in the box.
14:18Um, would you go down to 20%?
14:25No. I wouldn't.
14:2930?
14:3432 and a half and we've got a deal.
14:37Come on, Stephen. 30. Come on. Come on, Stephen.
14:42Go on.
14:43Go on.
14:44I know, but it's...
14:45Even the dragons want you to do this. Come on.
14:49I'll be fine with that.
14:50Yay!
14:55Thank you so much.
14:57After a tense back and forth, Zahira seals the deal.
15:01I'll see you soon.
15:04And with Stephen Bartlett now on board, her dating app just found its perfect match.
15:14It is one of the greatest opportunities that I've ever had in my life.
15:18I think it is utterly incredible that the dragon I want wanted me.
15:39I'm James Martin and I'm from Harrogate in North Yorkshire.
15:42We wanted to create something where people could enjoy the great outdoors in a bit of luxury.
15:48It's called glawning.
15:50Which means?
15:51Glawning is a lawn, isn't it?
15:53I feel like it's glumping, but you buy the tent.
15:57Well, they're really readily available. We've got one of those.
16:00To be fair, it doesn't have the awning.
16:02The what?
16:03So the awning is the bit between the tent and the car.
16:06So that's an awning?
16:07Yeah, but it goes with glawning.
16:09It was completely lost on you, wasn't it, Stephen, when Peter said glawning?
16:12100% lost on me.
16:16I'm passionate about the business and I've started to invent some new products.
16:20So this, I think, is a real exciting time and a great time for Dragons to come on board.
16:32Hello, Dragons.
16:34My name's James and I'm here today seeking an investment of £60,000
16:39in return for a 10% share of my business, Glawning.
16:43We aim to redefine what it means to go camping.
16:47It all started when I was on a camper van holiday with my wife.
16:50We had the freedom of the open road and we had the world's most miserable awning
16:54attached to the side of our camper van.
16:57It was boiling hot when the sun came out.
16:59It was freezing cold the rest of the time and it flapped around like a tent possessed.
17:04Worst of all, it was really, really boring.
17:06So we decided we're going to do something about it and we created the Glawning,
17:10which is a glamorous canvas awning that can be attached to the side of a camper van,
17:15caravan, motor home or large vehicle.
17:17It can also be used as a standalone tent by zipping off the connecting canopy.
17:22Since we launched, we have achieved net revenue after VAT of just over £4.3 million.
17:30And we also have our own festival, which attracts around 2,000 people every year.
17:35But this is just the beginning.
17:36We now want to build a go-to camping lifestyle brand.
17:41We have some fantastic new products in the pipeline
17:44and we believe that these are going to open up massive new markets
17:47and we'd love for you guys to be on that journey with us.
17:51So Dragons, I invite you now to join us on the Glawning Revolution.
17:56A glammed-up camping classic, which attaches canvas to camper van or caravan,
18:02is the brainchild of James Martin.
18:05Please feel free to come and take a look at the product.
18:10Oh, wow. After you.
18:12This is nice.
18:14Oh, it's quite big.
18:15The entrepreneur is seeking £60,000 in exchange for a 10% share in his business.
18:23So this is a bell tent, so really the unique bit...
18:26..is the attachment to the van.
18:27..is the attachment. It's the awning, isn't it?
18:29It is, yes.
18:29Because normally that would be closed off.
18:31Yes, yeah.
18:33First to take a closer look at what's on offer is seasoned camper Jenna Meek.
18:43Hi, James. Hiya.
18:44Um, so I love caravanning.
18:46As a kid, I used to always caravan with my parents.
18:49And each time we got away, I'd be like, are you putting the awning up?
18:52Because then there'd be arguments because it took so long to put this awning up.
18:56So how difficult is this one to put up? How long does it take?
18:59Well, that's one of the reasons we chose a bell tent as the kind of base tent,
19:04because they're very easy to put up.
19:05And it's usually about eight and a half minutes on my own to go from start to finish.
19:09OK. And you mentioned this 4.3 million.
19:14So what is the current business architecture right now?
19:17Are you selling these at festivals?
19:19Or have you got another company that is a...
19:22You mentioned a festival.
19:23What have you sold to make 4.3 million?
19:25Yes. So the 4.3 million is solely to do with the Glawning business.
19:30So 75% of sales come online and about 25% at festivals.
19:36We do have a festival. We run that as a separate company.
19:38So the first year we did that was 2017, and we had about 150 people.
19:43And then it's just grown year on year,
19:44and there's now about 2,000 people come along to that.
19:46So that has a separate turnover with its own profit.
19:50James, do you buy these individually or separately?
19:54You buy them separately. So you buy the base tent,
19:57and then you buy your connecting canopy, and that varies in size.
20:01So we do a standard height one, which will fit on the likes of the Transporter,
20:04which is here, and then we do a high-top version,
20:06which will go on caravans, motorhomes and bigger vehicles.
20:10And we now do an inflatable one, which we've just launched,
20:13but we haven't got them in stock yet, but we've kind of sold half of them already.
20:16OK, so when did you start this?
20:19I came up with the product in 2013.
20:22At the time, I was actually running a start-up law firm,
20:26so my focus kind of wasn't on this.
20:28OK, so are these sort of like side hustles for you,
20:33and you're a lawyer by day?
20:35So that, at the start, it was a side hustle.
20:38Then it started to do pretty well.
20:40Right, so you're now doing this full-time?
20:42Yes.
20:46James. Yeah?
20:48So I'm assuming you're buying this in from China.
20:52Yeah.
20:54So there's no barriers to entry on this.
20:58If I wanted to do this, I'd pick up the phone.
21:01Yeah.
21:02And within 12 weeks, I'd have it in my warehouse.
21:05Yeah.
21:05Well, we do have design rights on this particular configuration.
21:08Yeah, but your design right might be you've got 24 inches higher,
21:12but something similar I could get.
21:15Yeah.
21:16I mean, there have been people who have tried to copy it.
21:19I'm not going to copy it.
21:20I'm just going to ring up my team in China,
21:23and I'll pick the ones I want.
21:25Easy as that.
21:29James.
21:30Yes.
21:31On the $4.3 million in revenue you've generated over the last,
21:34is it roughly 10 years, just over 10 years?
21:35Yes, yeah.
21:36What's the net profit been, the cumulative net profit?
21:39About $150,000.
21:41Okay.
21:42So, hmm.
21:46So when I look at the business, it doesn't look very investable.
21:54Because if I were to invest 60,000 pounds, say it was for 10% or in that region,
22:00it would take some time based on the profits being generated in the business to ever get a return.
22:05So how does a return happen in this business if the cumulative net profit over the last decade has been
22:10150K?
22:12So my plan is now to build the business on innovation, primarily.
22:18We have some great new products in the pipeline.
22:20So we've got one that we've just recently released, which is the inflatable version of the Glawning.
22:28We've already sold half of those, and we should sell the others fairly quickly.
22:33I also have applied for a patent for a new design, which I think is going to be a game
22:40-changer.
22:41So there's future innovation coming, which I'm betting on.
22:43Yes.
22:44Versus what I see here and the business in front of me.
22:49It's always a bit of an amber flag for me when an entrepreneur says to not invest in the thing
22:53in front of me,
22:54but in something that is coming. For me, I'm always like, I want to invest in...
22:59I can tell you about it.
23:01Yeah.
23:02As I say, the patent that we've just applied for is something that I think will take this to the
23:09next level.
23:10What is that patent?
23:11So it's for a roof box, which has an inflatable awning integrated inside of it.
23:20You open the roof box, you plug into your 12-volt, you press a button,
23:23and the awning inflates out of the side of the van.
23:26So it's taken the pain points of having to get the awning out of its bag,
23:30connect the pump up, pump it up, line it all up with the van, connect it.
23:34All of that is kind of done.
23:35And is that a patent or a design patent?
23:39That's a patent.
23:40That's a patent.
23:40These are just design rights, but that's a patent.
23:43See, James, that's so much more exciting than this.
23:47Yes. Yeah.
23:48Yeah.
23:49I wish you could have come in and at least demonstrated that.
23:52Even if it was in a prototype shape or form, because that could be investable.
23:57Yeah.
23:58But this is just a tent.
24:02It's tough.
24:04Where are you in your patent?
24:07We've applied for it.
24:08And when?
24:10Yesterday.
24:12Right, OK.
24:13So, well, I wanted to get it in and have it applied for...
24:16So you have no idea whether or not somebody else is going to pop their head up and said,
24:20I actually did that about ten years ago?
24:21No.
24:26James, it's...
24:29There's quite a lot of frustration here.
24:32And it also feels a little bit disingenuous because you only applied for a patent yesterday.
24:40So it feels like, I've got this inflatable idea.
24:46Let's quickly pivot.
24:47Let's get this invention, because I know they like patents.
24:50I'm just going to have a go.
24:51That's how it feels.
24:52It feels a bit disingenuous, the pitch now, with what you just said.
24:56Yeah, well...
24:57Why is it...
24:57If this is something that you've been working on and something you've been thinking about,
25:01why did you apply yesterday for a patent?
25:03Well, I did bring it forward to yesterday, so I would have the patent applied for.
25:08But I wonder whether your pitch could have been much better, James.
25:12It could have been, you know, I've spent the last eight years of my life creating the perfect awning.
25:18And I've given up being a lawyer to focus on this.
25:22But I've got a seed of an incredible idea that I think is going to make millions.
25:26And it's called the inflatable roof box awning.
25:31I've now got a patent, Dragons.
25:32Yeah.
25:33And all of a sudden, I've got a different pitch.
25:36Yeah.
25:37I genuinely, I think we'd be fighting over who invested.
25:41Sadly, I'm going to say that I'm out.
25:44But I encourage you, if you do get the patent,
25:48please come straight to me and I'll deal with you directly.
25:52Thank you, Peter.
25:56James, I always sit here trying to figure out whether the entrepreneur is selling me
26:01a measurable past or a hypothetical future.
26:03Yeah.
26:04So I'm trying to piece together from what you're saying,
26:06what I would actually be investing in because it's not in the den today.
26:10I'm a big fan of the inflatable idea.
26:12If I tried to put up a tent like this, it would end up looking like a sleeping bag.
26:16But for me, as an investment proposition, it's not for me.
26:19So I'm going to say that I'm out.
26:20Okay. Thank you, Stephen.
26:26James, I think it's quite cool.
26:28I think it's, I think it's actually quite, it's one of those innovations you think,
26:32why didn't somebody do it before?
26:34It feels so obvious.
26:35Very simple and obvious.
26:36Very simple, absolutely.
26:38Had you been further down the route of the patent, I might well have been more inclined
26:43to invest, to be honest. But right now, I've got a clue. I haven't got a clue whether or
26:48not tomorrow, 27 people go, yeah, no, I did that 10 years ago. And neither have you.
26:55So I'm afraid I won't be investing. And I'm out. But I really do wish you all the best. I
27:01really do.
27:05James, I take care.
27:11It's a shame because innovation came quite late in the pitch. So today, unfortunately,
27:21it's not investable, but I wish you all the best, but I'm out.
27:30James, hi. So I really wish I could have helped you do your pitch because you came in and you
27:36said,
27:36I've got this tent and then I've got this festival, but the festival's a different business.
27:40Or actually, if you come in and being like, my vision is to own this, this world. And you've got
27:46this community of 2000 people at your fingertips at a festival in real life. I'm like, oh my God,
27:54there's something there. And you're not seeing the two together and how that is the start of what could
27:59be something huge because you cannot replicate community. I think for me, it's about going
28:06your way and understanding with this community that you've already got. Start there. Ask them
28:12questions. Hey, how can we develop this? How can we make this one better? Who's interested in the
28:16inflatable? And try and understand how can you be that camper van business of solution and make it
28:22easier for the customers that want this life that you're trying to sell? Because I want it. I've been
28:27looking at camper vans. Then you will just fly because I think this is really cool. And I would want
28:32my
28:32camper van to look like this when I do get one. But it's not an investment for me. So I
28:37am out.
28:37OK, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dragons. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.
28:44That's it for James. The Dragons admired his creativity,
28:49but felt the focus had been on the wrong product. And he leaves the den with nothing.
28:56Yes, that was intense. Peter gave a great alternative pitch, which in hindsight would be lovely to have
29:02done. But it's hard to know what they're going to focus on and what they're going to build on. So
29:07hey, hey. Onwards and upwards.
29:28You want some water? Yeah, let's do this. I'm Connor. I'm Harry. And we're two of the founders of Club
29:34Cultured. Cheers. Cheers, mate.
29:37Cheers. And we make delicious, premium, high quality ferments and pickles. We're in the den.
29:43We're going to get the deal we want. The missus don't like the smell of kimchi. We close all the
29:48time,
29:49but it's all right. We're dedicated. We're here. We're doing the work.
29:54Kimchi. Oh, fermented foods. Fermented foods, yeah. Very good for the gut microbiome. Very good.
30:00Ready, bro? Yeah. All right. Love you. Love you too. We've done our research on the dragons and we know
30:07they're into gut health. We know they're big foodies and they've made a series of food investments before.
30:12Yeah, yeah. That's what we've been waiting for. So we're just super excited to get into the den
30:18and share our products and our business with them.
30:31You all right, dragons? How's it going, dragons? Hello. What if we told you there's a fermented
30:36food brand that produces proteins, sides and sauces? Well, we're the founders of that brand, Club Cultured.
30:42I'm Harry. That's Connor. And our journey began in our business partner, James's back garden,
30:48where we turned an old fridge into a DIY fermenter and made our first batch of tempeh.
30:52Since then, we have built a delicious range of premium plant-based ferments and pickles,
30:57crafted by a chef who's trained in Michelin star kitchens that deliver bold flavors and known gut health benefits.
31:05We believe food that does good should taste amazing too. That's why our naturally fermented and pickled
31:10products such as our umami-rich kimchi to tangy krauts and punchy sauces are designed to slot effortlessly
31:16into your daily meals, making gut health easy and enjoyable. We've produced and sold over 200,000 kilos,
31:23generated 1.4 million in sales and supplied some of the UK's biggest food brands.
31:28After maxing out our second site, we moved into our brand new four and a half thousand square foot
31:33fermentation facility in Norfolk. We make everything in-house, giving us total control over quality,
31:41flavour and consistency. We're now forecasting to hit four and a half million in sales in 2028,
31:48with a deep pipeline spanning across manufacturing, food service and retail. We're here today to ask for
31:53a £50,000 investment in exchange for three and a half percent equity into our brand. So Connor's prepared
31:59some delicious samples for you guys. We have some tempeh sushi rolls and some kimchi pancakes and there's
32:05some little samples of the pickles and ferments for you to try as well. A range of gut-friendly pickles
32:12and ferments, including tempeh, a traditional Indonesian staple made from soybeans,
32:18is the proposition from Harry Watmo and Connor Jordan. I'm not sure everyone's spice tolerances,
32:25but the red one obviously has some chilli in it, so don't go eating the whole pot in one go.
32:30The pair are seeking £50,000 in exchange for a three and a half percent share in their company.
32:36That smell, that is amazing. Thank you, it was, um, I bought it in Selfridges.
32:42I'll show you the bottle if you want. Eau de kimchi. Yeah, Eau de kimchi.
32:46Eau de kimchi. Their products may smell and taste the part.
32:50It's really good. But will their enterprise prove just as appetising?
32:58Connor, Harry. Hello. Hello, Deborah. That tempeh is absolutely delicious. So,
33:04you probably know I'm plant-based. This looks like the contents of my fridge.
33:09But that tempeh is, I think, the best I've ever, ever tasted. Thank you. Thank you.
33:14But I don't understand. Do you sell the tempeh or are you just giving that to me?
33:18We supply the ones in the sleeves there as tempeh. So, we actually, when we first discovered tempeh,
33:23we taught ourselves how to make it. And after a while, we didn't know what we was doing. We was
33:26losing batches, we was working night shifts, taking it home. Nothing was working, so it was like,
33:30we need to find the tempeh yoda. So, we went to Indonesia for a week's training, learned how to make
33:35it properly. And we pride ourselves on making Indonesian grey tempeh, really doing homage to the quality of that
33:41product. And if you look at the reviews on our website, it's consistently the same comments,
33:45what, like, people say, it's the best tempeh I've ever had.
33:49Connor, Harry, really interesting business. I'm a big gut microbiome fan.
33:54Yes.
33:54What are your backgrounds and what brought you to the gut microbiome world?
33:58Let it go first.
33:59So, we've known each other since we were five years old.
34:02My background is I didn't do particularly great at school, but my love was cooking.
34:06So, I went to college and done three years, professional chef's diploma. And then I got
34:13work experience in the Ritz Hotel in London. And I ended up going there two weeks after I left
34:18college at 18. I stayed there for six years.
34:20And then my background. So, I also left school at 16. Got a job at a stockbroker. Worked there for
34:26six
34:26years. And our other business partner, James, we're best friends from year seven at school. We worked with
34:30each other from 19 to 22 on the same desk. We realized that life wasn't for us. Went traveling for
34:3518 months.
34:36It's where we sort of first discovered kimchi, tempeh. And we just fell in love with it. And then
34:41when we came back to England, we could just see that everything was really processed. And we felt
34:44like, you know, there's a huge opportunity for fermented foods. And we went for it.
34:50So, if I'm looking at this business from a financial perspective, what year does it really
34:55begin for you? 2020 was the first year we did manufacturing.
34:58Okay. So, let's go from 2020. Give me the revenue and that.
35:01Yeah. So, it was 90K revenue, a loss of 44K. 44.
35:05Yeah. The following year was 275K, a loss of 73.
35:09Yeah. The following year after that was 342K and a loss of 123.
35:14And the year after that was 359K and a loss of 104K. And then last year was 253K and a
35:22loss of 83.
35:24You've lost probably almost £400,000 since the business's inception.
35:28Yeah. Where has that money come from?
35:31So, we've had investors. So, we've raised just under half a million since we started.
35:36And for kitting out our last space, we took out a loan ourselves to fund the kit out for our
35:41move to
35:41Norfolk. So, you've raised 500K for investors. Yeah.
35:44And how much of the business do you guys still loan? 56%.
35:4756%. Between three of you? Yeah.
35:49Okay. And you've taken a loan of what?
35:51So, that last loan, it was 225K and the outstanding amount we have left is 174,000.
35:57And how much cash have you got in the bank? About 85K.
36:01Okay. And what are you forecasting for this year?
36:03This year, 450,000 and a net profit of 22 and a half.
36:08And how are you tracking so far for this year?
36:10Yeah. We've done about 75K so far this year, but we actually had a new big customer come visit us
36:15two days ago, and we have some big contracts lined up for them.
36:20So, for me, it looks like the business is going down rather than up.
36:25So, what's the goal? What are you trying to do?
36:27So, for us, it's been the leader in the industry in UK manufacturing for these products.
36:32But you need to do about 100X compared to where you are, don't you, to be able to do that?
36:36Yeah. But we're confident we can build our brand position as well as on the food service side.
36:41But my big thing here is that if you want to try and get half a million in sales,
36:45Yeah.
36:46You haven't got the cash.
36:49Well, we're confident with these contracts coming in that will enable us to grow and bring more
36:54Yeah, but how? How will you do that? How are you going to pay for it?
36:58Well, we're confident with what we've got at the moment. And we have other investors who said before,
37:03when it gets to a stage...
37:04No, that's the point, though. So, what does that mean? So, I invest today, 50K, 3.5%.
37:09Other investors put more money in. I'm going to go down, aren't I? I'm going to dilute.
37:13So, how much money are you looking to raise, in essence, over the next 12 months?
37:17Well, this would be the only money we raise over the next 12 months.
37:20That's not enough.
37:21I think it will be enough and easy.
37:23It's not enough. It definitely isn't enough.
37:26Because you've raised 500, you've nearly spent all of that, you're out of cash.
37:31You've only got cash in your business because you've got £170,000 of a loan.
37:36You have no cash. You're currently insolvent.
37:39Well, today, our current cash position is £85,000.
37:42Yeah, I know, but you owe £174,000. You can't afford to pay the loan back.
37:46So, I'm putting in £50,000 into a business that already hasn't got enough cash to pay back its debts.
37:52It's not a good investment, guys.
37:57So, I'm going to have to say, sadly, that I'm out.
38:00But I wish you every bit of luck, and your product does taste beautiful, stunning.
38:05Thank you, Peter. Great chef.
38:07Cheers. Thank you very much.
38:10Can I ask when you're going to be making £400,000 profit?
38:14In a single year?
38:15No, as a cumulative.
38:18So, by 2026, we're forecasting £1 million and a net profit of £100,000.
38:23And then the following year, £2.5 million and a net of £375,000.
38:28So, between those next two and a bit years.
38:30OK, so in two years, you'll have made up your losses.
38:32Yeah. OK.
38:36I really, really want to invest in this.
38:43Actually, I'm going to be quiet.
38:45Ooh.
38:48Hi.
38:49I'll just tell you where I am, because I think...
38:52I think you guys are great, and you've done everything to make a beautiful, beautiful product.
38:57But you've got a lot of experts in here that are probably very clued up on this stuff.
39:01I am probably your more mass-market customer here, because I go into Holland and Barrett,
39:05and I don't know what I'll go in for, and then I walk out with 20 prebiotics.
39:09I think, as an investor, to actually help you, I wouldn't really be able to do much.
39:14Sure.
39:14So, for that reason, I am out, but I wish you all the best.
39:17Thank you. Thank you, Jenna.
39:20Harry and Connor,
39:23I love the fact that you are very knowledgeable.
39:29But today, you've not convinced me to say, this is an investable opportunity at 3.5%.
39:39For that reason, guys, I'm not going to invest, and I'm out.
39:42Thank you for your comments.
39:46I'm also going to tell you where I am.
39:48My fridge is full of this stuff, and I had a little bit of a thought on the brand club
39:54cultured,
39:55because I realized that all of the items that I have, the kimchi that I have in my fridge,
40:00looks authentic to its native country.
40:04And I think this has been branded as if it's a mass-market product, but kimchi isn't quite there yet.
40:10So, there's something about it looking authentic to its native country that has made it more compelling,
40:16that's made it look real, versus it looking like a rave.
40:21I see a business that has historically lost money every single year, and is in decline from a revenue perspective.
40:30So, I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
40:32Cheers, Stephen. Thank you for your feedback.
40:36I actually completely disagree with Stephen.
40:39Ouch.
40:41Oddly, there are plenty of Korean-looking kimchis around, but the one that really has broken through isn't a Korean
40:49-looking kimchi.
40:50Yeah.
40:51It looks like a pickled product, you know, so it's sort of recognizable.
40:57And funnily enough, I think it's going to be more powerful to move it out of this,
41:01the sort of the shelf that is those things that other countries eat, and move them onto mainstream.
41:06Yeah.
41:07So, it clearly looks like something that everybody should have in their fridge.
41:10I shouldn't be worrying, I shouldn't be thinking about whether or not it's good for my gut or not.
41:13I'm not buying it as a medicine.
41:15I'm buying it because it tastes great.
41:17Yeah.
41:17And I want it in my fridge.
41:22Um...
41:30The thing is,
41:34I do love your story, and I love where this has come from,
41:38and I think that will come through to the consumer, and that's, you know, that's really important.
41:43Um, I think there's a problem, though.
41:48And the problem is you only own 56% between the three of you.
41:53Um, who's your single biggest other shareholder?
41:57Uh, so, two guys who come on previously.
42:01And what, so they own between them?
42:037% each.
42:04How much?
42:047% each.
42:057% each.
42:09No, I can't.
42:15I don't like, I don't like the whole pattern.
42:20And I see this pattern of what's going ahead.
42:23And this is how much cash you're going to need versus how much equity you have already given away.
42:30Yeah.
42:31You are going to be diluted.
42:32I mean, I can do things that stops me being diluted, but that isn't fair either.
42:36That's not the type of business, that's not what I want to do.
42:38Um, so, I, no.
42:40We always know that we're just going to be diluted.
42:42I know what you're doing here.
42:43You're just keeping me talking so that I don't go out.
42:46I know what you're doing.
42:46I think it's good to keep you talking.
42:48It is actually, I'll give you that.
42:50Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, you're great.
42:53All I can do is tell you that is a really, really good product.
42:58And I will be a customer, but I won't be an investor.
43:01No worries.
43:01So, I'm out.
43:02Thank you very much.
43:03Thank you very much.
43:03Cheers, guys.
43:04Good luck, guys.
43:07Harry and Connor must leave the den empty handed.
43:12She was tempted by their tempeh, but ultimately Deborah Meaden couldn't be persuaded to take
43:19a punt on the pickle-loving pair.
43:23That is what it is, aren't they?
43:25Still doing it.
43:26Still doing it.
43:26Pull shot.
43:28Obviously, we didn't get the deal like we hoped, but lots of great feedback.
43:33What's next for us is proving the dragon's wrong and making them regret their decision.
43:54My name's Sam Beany, and my business is Kibbu.
43:58While Kibbu is a product that people have seen before, it's quite unique in how we're doing things.
44:05Oh, this looks fun.
44:07Headphones for kids, but I feel like there's something more unique to it than that.
44:11Is it interchangeable?
44:13Yeah.
44:13Build your own headphones.
44:15I like that.
44:17It's so great when kids get the product and they get to try it and their feedback is just,
44:23it really motivates you.
44:24It'd be amazing to pitch in front of the dragons and show them what Kibbu is all about.
44:36Hi, dragons.
44:37My name is Sam Beany, the founder of Kibbu.
44:40The children's headphones you build, repair, recycle.
44:45And today, I'm seeking £65,000 in exchange for 10% equity in my business.
44:56Every year in the UK, over 18 million pairs of headphones and earbuds are thrown away.
45:00Most aren't easily fixed, especially not by kids.
45:05Yet kids are curious, capable and love to build.
45:08So why do we keep designing tech that when it breaks, it gets binned?
45:12At Kibbu, we're doing things differently.
45:14The Kibbu headphones come as a simple kit that children or fun-loving adults can build themselves.
45:20No screws, no glue, no fiddly wires.
45:23Just simple parts that snap together.
45:28Like that.
45:29And if a part breaks, you only need to replace that part, helping to reduce waste.
45:37Each pair is 3D printed in Hackney London in less than 30 minutes,
45:41with our proprietary 3D printing code that doesn't compromise on speed or quality.
45:47The main material used is a recycled bioplastic that comes from plants like corn.
45:52And when the headphones reach the end of their life,
45:54the parts can be returned and recycled into new products.
45:57With your investment and experience, we can scale faster, develop new products,
46:03and shape a generation of builders, not just consumers.
46:10A kit for kids to make their own headphones is the offering from Sam Beeney.
46:16Like my clothes and colour. Thank you.
46:19It's got to be green.
46:19It's got to be green.
46:21He's seeking £65,000 for a 10% share in his business.
46:27Will Sam's sonic startup hit the right note with the dragons?
46:33Sam, super interesting. So what really is the crux of this business?
46:36Are they aspiring to be really good headphones?
46:39Or are they aspiring to be something that teaches kids how to build things and to have a bit of
46:43fun?
46:44Yeah, I mean, we obviously want them to be great headphones.
46:48But our main goal is not to compete with the big players when it comes to sound or things like
46:53that.
46:54Ultimately, we're trying to deliver an experience to children and families.
46:56You know, it's being able to build your headphones yourselves, and we hope that then when they break,
47:01kids are then more likely to want to repair it and see the headphones go through their life.
47:10And is it just you involved in the business at the moment or have you got a team?
47:13Yeah, so it's mainly me, but I have two main partners who are helping me,
47:20so businesses rather, that are helping me.
47:22So one is a 3D printing manufacturing company that I used to work for,
47:26and another is an award-winning design agency.
47:29And what are the total sales and when did you begin?
47:33So we did our Kickstarter in April last year, and our total sales are about £25,000 to date.
47:44Yeah, and sold over 450 pairs.
47:49Sam, hi. So how much do they sell for?
47:52So we sell them for £39.
47:54OK, and what do they cost you to make?
47:57They cost us £10.40.
47:58OK. And at the moment, are you only on the crowdfund platform?
48:04Are you already selling into retail or direct to the consumer?
48:08Yes, so we're selling now. We're selling direct to consumers through our website,
48:13and we'd love to get into retail and really try and explore other avenues as well.
48:21So £40, that's expensive.
48:25You're limiting your market in retail, because of that price.
48:29I can't see this, what I call it, mainstream toy shops, really.
48:34OK. But I think while the upfront price is slightly higher,
48:40the value over the long term...
48:42We were speaking to parents, and they were having to replace their headphones like every year,
48:47or even less than that. And yeah, it may cost you more upfront, but if parts break,
48:53you know, there's this route here to fix it and make the headphones last longer.
48:58Sam, hi. I love it. Like, I really, really love it.
49:03I love... There's so many things I really like.
49:05I opened this up, and I was like, oh my God, my inner child is so excited to build that,
49:10because it's doing exactly what you're trying to do. It's helping kids get creative,
49:15understand how to make inventions, and yeah, just really, really love it.
49:20A few questions. If I went onto your social channel now, what have you done so far on social?
49:25Like, if I'm looking at your Instagram, your TikTok, what am I seeing?
49:29So you're seeing mainly reels and posts showing the headphones,
49:34and then the sort of content that tends to be more popular, where the product is used. So,
49:42guess this song, kind of, for example. But we're trying to really get into that,
49:47you know, the organic engine, I guess, that reels and TikTok and stuff deliver.
49:50Has any of the content gone off? Like, have you got a lot of momentum?
49:53We've had posts that have, you know, done 50,000 kind of views, that sort of thing.
50:01But I think the challenge we have is the average number of times people are seeing that content
50:06needs to be six, seven times. They're seeing it once in this organic post, they think,
50:10oh, that's interesting. And we're not, because we don't have the capital yet,
50:15we can't, like, show it to them again and again and try and...
50:18You can. So this is why I'm asking.
50:19Yeah.
50:19Basically, you find, you've got a video with 50,000 views,
50:22you've got a video with 100,000 views. That's amazing.
50:25Yeah.
50:25You've just got to keep creating more and more and more of that content.
50:27I built my home business to, like, five million, basically, of organic content.
50:31Like, you've got to keep going with it.
50:33Thank you. Yeah, that's great. Advice like that. You know, we, we, that's what we, we really need.
50:40Sam. Hello.
50:41Hello.
50:41Um, I started building computers when I was a teenager.
50:46Mm.
50:46I had no knowledge of it, but I loved it.
50:49Yeah.
50:50And I think this is something that kids would just love to do.
50:53Um, so tell me about you. You work for this company.
50:57Yeah.
50:58Who are the company?
50:59It's a company called Batchworks, and they mass produce things using 3D printing.
51:03And you left them to start this business, or what?
51:05So it was really a collaboration. So they are an equity holder.
51:09Oh, okay.
51:10Along with a design agency, and we actually see that as a strength.
51:12How much do they own?
51:14They own 39%.
51:16Ooh, wow.
51:19And you own?
51:2133%.
51:23Oh, that means there's somebody else in here.
51:25So yeah, there's, um, a design agency who own 20%.
51:29And who owns the other 8%?
51:31So we have, um, a, a web developer who owns like 4%.
51:35And then there's 2.5% that's owned by a, a brand agency.
51:40Uh, and then I believe the rest is, um, just a pool kind of left.
51:47This is an unusual situation, because you're not the majority shareholder.
51:52Yeah.
51:52And if you were to receive an offer in here today, um, presumably you've agreed with your
51:59majority shareholder.
52:01Yeah.
52:01What your parameters of an offer are.
52:04Yeah.
52:04Is that right?
52:05Yes.
52:05And would it be from a dilute, would everybody dilute, or does it come from your shareholding?
52:10Everyone's diluted equally.
52:11Everyone would dilute.
52:23All right, I'm going to tell you where I am.
52:25There's something, there is something that worries me about it, Sam.
52:28And I, and you're, I really like you.
52:30I think the design is really, really lovely.
52:34There's something that just isn't hitting the mark for me.
52:37It's, you know, I don't like the structure of the business.
52:40I really do like to be talking to a majority shareholder.
52:43Yeah.
52:44Um, uh, just because I like to get a feel of where they are in all of this, you know,
52:48and understand if you've got a decent order, how much priority that would get.
52:53There's loads of questions I'd like to ask majority shareholder, but they're not here today.
52:57So I'm afraid I won't be investing. I'm out.
53:00Thank you, Deborah.
53:05Sam, I, um, I really, the minute I saw it and the minute you explained what it was,
53:09I, um, I really fell in love with the idea of it.
53:12Um, but on a personal level, maybe because I don't have kids.
53:15Yeah.
53:16Um, it hasn't personally resonated with me in the same way.
53:21So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I hope you're successful.
53:24Thank you. Appreciate it.
53:28Sam, I would say where I am.
53:29Yeah.
53:29You are credible, right?
53:31And the product's great.
53:34However, this needs a lot of money.
53:37Yeah.
53:38I think you need a lot more than 65 to get this out there.
53:43So for that reason, I'm out.
53:45Thank you, Tika.
53:53I feel like I'm in the same place.
53:56Um, because it's, it's just very difficult to find a way to monetize it.
54:04Um, have I missed something why you don't think it's, um, monetizable, Peter?
54:11Have I missed the profit on the product or?
54:13Yeah.
54:14The, the scale at the volume at 40 pounds.
54:16You think that's too expensive?
54:18It definitely is. Yeah. I mean, these products to kids are 9.99.
54:22Yeah. But I think more parents are becoming, um, are caring more and more about the products they give to
54:28their children.
54:28Yeah. I get that, but that's a lot of cash to spend.
54:34Sam, I'll tell you where I'm at.
54:36So I've loved this from the start and I do think there is something here.
54:42Because the thing is with kids, it's cult.
54:45It is word of mouth and you get that right.
54:48It really, really works.
54:50What I'm brilliant at is building a brand that people want to buy into regardless of what that product even
54:54is.
54:55And that's what I feel like I can help with.
54:57And I think if you're willing to work like really, really, really, really hard, like harder than you've ever worked
55:02to get this where it needs to be, this could be really huge.
55:07So I am going to make you an offer.
55:09You asked for 65,000 pounds for 10%.
55:13My offer is going to be all of the money.
55:19But I want 15% of the business.
55:23Okay. Thank you very much.
55:26Um, yeah, Sam.
55:32I think Jenna's given you a really, really good offer given the structure at 15%.
55:39But that's going to be tough for me because I think you're going to need a lot of work here
55:46and a lot of money to make this business a success.
55:48Yeah.
55:51Um, obviously equity is important and it matters, but I think having a small part of a big thing is,
55:57is better than a big part of nothing.
56:00Peter, what about we share?
56:03Would you consider that?
56:09Yeah, I would consider that.
56:14I'll tell you what, I think I'm going to, I'm going to do two things.
56:16I'm going to give you an offer of all of the money.
56:2165,000.
56:24For 20% of the business.
56:27Or I would be willing to share it with Jenna and give you half the money for 10%.
56:33So I'd have 10%, Jenna would have 10%.
56:36Because I think I would have to do so much work and Jenna brings so much to this party.
56:47Okay.
56:48Um, I think, yeah, I'd love to have both of you on board.
56:51That'd be all.
56:52Yes.
56:52Well done.
56:55Well done.
56:57Yeah, it was great.
56:57Well done.
56:58Well done.
56:59Well done.
56:59Yeah, fantastic.
57:01Well done.
57:02Appreciate it.
57:04Success for Sam, who secures the backing of two dragons, who will help ensure his product
57:11makes waves in the world of children's headphones.
57:14I didn't quite expect to get one dragon, let alone two.
57:18It's just, you know, amazing.
57:20We're in business together.
57:22Yes.
57:22I think it could be really, really exciting.
57:26Really good.
57:27Okay.
57:28I need to go and plug in.
57:29Does he look like a cyber man?
57:31You don't watch Doctor Who, do you?
57:33He looks like a cyber man.
57:34Yeah, I definitely don't think they fit.
57:44Good luck next time.
57:46That one definitely isn't rubbish.
57:48You're on fire with your puns, Peter.
57:50I couldn't agree less with Susie.
57:52Oh, really?
57:53This is going to be ridiculous.
57:54I just know it's going to be ridiculous.
57:55I'm not looking forward to your questions, but I'm here now.
57:58Oh, my.
57:59What?
58:00I know.
58:00I'll come and cry on your shoulder later.
58:03I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:05I hate this game.
58:06LAUGHTER
58:36I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:36I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:36I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:36I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:37I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:37I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
58:37I have no idea why I'm engaging in this.
Comments