00:00Cliff, was it in fact Billy Graham that influenced you to become a publicly committed Christian?
00:06Well, in fact, you see, Billy Graham was the first person to ever ask me sort of very large publicly
00:11to sort of take a Christian stand.
00:13I had done little things in the past, but not sort of publicly.
00:16The press were all there, and I knew that when I did it, of course, that I'd have to from
00:19then onwards battle off everybody, you know,
00:21because I don't want to know why I was, you know, why I was a Christian then.
00:24And when you take a public stand at that, of course, everybody knows all in one fell swoop.
00:28But you weren't a Billy Graham conversion, were you?
00:31No, in fact, I had been converted about 18 months before that, in fact, and I'd merely just heard about
00:36him.
00:37You say 18 months before. Was it a precise moment of time at which you suddenly said, I am now
00:40converted?
00:41I can't think of a precise day, but, you know, it happened round about three years ago.
00:46I can't think of an exact date. It wasn't that a particular sermon hit me or anything like that.
00:50I'd spent a lot of time reading the New Testament, and things came over to me sort of gradually, really.
00:57From a religious background as a child or not?
01:00Well, yes and no. You see, my father died about eight years ago, and I don't know because I was
01:05never this deeply involved with Christianity to ask him if he was an actual committed Christian.
01:10I know that he believed in God, and so did my mother. My mother still does.
01:14But it didn't involve what I know now. Christianity definitely involves something more than just believing in a God.
01:24This is another thing that I've discovered in the last 18 months.
01:26But if, in fact, myself and a few other people who are Christians in show business left it, we are,
01:32in fact, leaving a batch of people without any, you know, hope of knowing Christ at all.
01:37Because maybe their only contact is through people who claim to be Christians.
01:41Myself, there's a few others, of course. There's Andrew Crookshank, Derek Nimmo's, you know, people who are professing Christians in
01:47show business.
01:47If we left it, of course, we'd really be turning our backs on them, and I don't think that any
01:51Christian could possibly tell me that that would be the right thing to do.
01:54So I'm happy to stay on, you know, for that reason alone, really.
01:59Because I think it's true to say that Christians ought to make themselves known in every walk of life.
02:04It's a shame we don't have a few more Christian, real Christian, committed Christian politicians.
02:08Why should the devil have all the good music?
02:11There's nothing wrong with what he plays.
02:16Jesus is the rock and he runs my blues away.
02:21Can we have your question, please?
02:23If you felt God was calling you to enter the ministry, would you cast Cliff Richard aside and maybe become
02:30the Reverend Harry Webb?
02:32Well, in fact, you see, I've already been through a period of my career where I was going to give
02:37up my showbiz career to be a teacher, in fact, to teach religion in just an ordinary sort of school.
02:42I feel that what I had to do, which was most important to myself, was to convince myself that, first
02:48of all, that I could do without the fame and that I could do without the money, you see.
02:51And if those things are out of my mind, then really, whatever God wants, I can do for him.
02:56And I've convinced myself that I can do without the fame and without the money.
03:01And this is what, you know, this was sort of the biggest battle I had in my mind.
03:04I could quite easily.
03:05I don't feel, though, particularly in the last 18 months, that God is going to call me in that way
03:10because, obviously, I've been working for nearly, this is my 10th year, in fact.
03:14And I don't think that he'd allowed all this to happen to me to sort of just suddenly stop it.
03:20And I feel that doing things like this, for instance, is a great opening to be able to use the
03:24name Cliff Richard and deep down be inside Harry Webb.
03:27There is only one gospel, there is only one religion, that's Christianity.
03:31And that involves Christ having died and us having accepted that death for ourselves personally and then given our lives
03:38to it.
03:39Apparently, there's nothing wrong with being well off.
03:42I mean, Solomon was a very rich man and was given it all by God.
03:45Now, I'm sure we've all got different views on this.
03:47And you don't know, for instance, what I do with my money.
03:49So, I mean, you only know that I earn a lot of money, but you don't know what you do
03:52with it.
03:52And I'm not going to tell you.
03:54In the world of entertainment, do you feel that your experiences of the Christian faith has hindered rather than help
04:00you in your career?
04:02I can only say it's helped me because, you see, what it did, apart from the things, the cliche things
04:07that people talk about that you hear from preachers,
04:09the eternal life, the salvation that Christ brings, the big thing it did for me, apart from that, was that
04:15it matured me in here, you see.
04:16I think what a committed Christian has above others is that he has things in perspective.
04:21You know, I don't live for show business so that if I have a disappointment in my career, I don't
04:26go and jump in the first lake, I find.
04:28And everything's in perspective.
04:29So I find that the Christianity I've found has helped me considerably because I've been able to see things in
04:34their right light, you know.
04:35So if I don't get a top ten record, well, there's always another, you know, another chance of having a
04:39go at that.
04:40And I've found that, in fact, it's helped me tremendously because I've been able to grow up inside.
04:45And I think we all want to grow up, don't we?
04:47I mean, I don't mean just age-wise.
04:48I mean, there are a lot of people in this country and all over the world, in fact, who could
04:52be 90 and behave 19.
04:55Not that there's anything wrong with being 19, but you know what I mean.
04:58And, you know, we aren't grown up enough inside.
05:01We grow up bodily, but we don't grow up inside.
05:02And I think that Christianity, if it only offers one thing, it's that, that it makes you grow up inside.
05:08But, of course, it doesn't just offer that.
05:09Must be nice to remember when you were 19, Cliff.
05:11Come on, you've talked enough.
05:11There's something any one of us here can say they can't afford 15 minutes a day.
05:1515 minutes a day.
05:16Instead of watching all of Coronation Street, just what, part two or something like that.
05:20You know, joking aside, 15 minutes a day to read a section of Bible.
05:24What a friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and grief to bear.
05:36What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer.
05:45Oh, what peace we often forfeit.
05:53Oh, what needless pain we bear.
05:58All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer.
06:11Are we trials and temptations?
06:17Is there trouble anywhere?
06:23We should never be discouraged.
06:29Take it to the Lord in prayer.
06:57Are we weak and heavy laden?
07:04Cumbered with the Lord of care.
07:10Precious Savior, still our refuge.
07:15Take it to the Lord in prayer.
07:20Do thy friends despise for safety.
07:26Take it to the Lord in prayer.
07:32In his house he'll take and shield thee.
07:37Thou will find the soulless there.
07:47I think, first and foremost, young people have a misconception of religion.
07:50They think it's meant for old fuddy-duddies only.
07:53And, you know, I always say, well, I'm not an old fuddy-duddy by any means.
07:56You know, I'm getting on a bit.
07:58But John Lennon is five days older than me, so just to let you know that.
08:02But, you know, for a start they think that it's kind of sissy and soft.
08:07I mean, they don't know what it involves, otherwise they wouldn't think those things.
08:10But I think that really one of the sort of only ways that we can really get to young people
08:15is to have rallies and things.
08:17Not necessarily gospel church services, you know, because I did go to a gospel church service once.
08:21And I came out and I just didn't feel that I'd been there to worship, you know.
08:25But I think there's a tremendous place for youth rallies where, in fact,
08:29young Christians can invite young non-Christians and say,
08:32come on, and see, you know, that there can be a lot of fun involved.
08:35And do kind of folk gospel songs like We Shall Be Changed.
08:39There are a lot of them about.
08:40And I think if, I know lots of people, lots of Christians would say that, in fact,
08:44oh, they're only coming to hear the music.
08:45But the thing is, they're coming to hear the music and whether they like it or not,
08:48they're also going to hear the gospel.
08:51So that's one way of doing it.
08:52I couldn't tell you many more, you know, except that I think it's about time that,
08:56as Christians, we went around telling everybody that it's not a soft life,
08:59that it's not meant for young babies in Sunday school and old people.
09:03It's meant for all kinds of people, and it demands a great deal.
09:05And they've got to have the guts to be Christians.
09:08I think we don't tell them enough how difficult it is.
09:11This is the title track from Good News, my first sort of attempt at doing a gospel album.
09:18And it's not at all, if any of you have the album, if any of you are fool enough to
09:21have it,
09:22it's not at all like the arrangement because, as you know, some of the numbers I did with great brass
09:26bands and everything,
09:26you know, it was really quite jumpy.
09:28And I've really only got this 12-string guitar.
09:30So I'm making those excuses because I'm a foul guitarist.
09:34Unfortunately, I think the church has got rather tied up with its kind of traditions
09:38and hasn't changed with the times.
09:41I mean, people are psychedelic now.
09:42They're in clubs and all that.
09:44And if the church can't reach those people, it's not doing its job.
09:46And it isn't going to fill up because when the people are already in it die off,
09:49there's nowhere to take its place.
09:51The only reason I can say is that they don't march with the times.
09:54And I think it's about time they did.
09:56I'd be cruel not to say that, in fact, many churches do march with the times.
10:00You won't find every church empty.
10:02There are quite a few churches that are quite full.
10:04And surprisingly, I think lately, I've been asked a lot of youth things.
10:07And it's surprising how many churches have quite a large youth congregation.
10:11You know, 50% of them may be young people below, I count young, say below 25.
10:17You know, I'm not quite in that category, actually.
10:19That rules you and me, I was just saying, yeah.
10:22But, you know, it's a surprising thing that, in fact, there are many churches that are very vibrant and live
10:26and they're the ones where the vicar or the people involved have said,
10:30we want to get young people interested so they can take over when we finish.
10:34And the only way is to get down to young people,
10:36which means talking their kind of language, singing their kinds of songs.
10:39Oh, Lord, my God, when I, in awesome wonder,
10:47consider all the world thy hands have made.
10:55I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
11:06Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
11:23How great thou art, how great thou art, how great thou art.
11:49And when I think that God, his Son not sparing, sent him to die,
12:02I scarce can take it in, that on the cross, my burden gladly bearing,
12:18he bled and died to take away my sin.
12:34How great thou art, how great thou art, how great thou art.
12:55How great thou art, when Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
13:07What joy shall surely fill my heart, what joy shall surely fill my heart.
13:18Then I shall bow in humble adoration,
13:26And then proclaim, my God, how great thou art, how great thou art.
13:52Then sings my soul, my Savior, how great thou art.
13:58Then sings my soul, my Savior, my Savior, God to thee.
14:02How great thou art, how great thou art.
14:19How great thou art, how great thou art, how great thou art, Thong alive mixtus.
14:24If you are what you are all, I shall praise.
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