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00:00These are stories of the saints.
00:30St. Sebastian lived nearly 2,000 years ago.
00:52That was still the very early days of Christianity.
00:55It was long before the church developed any kind of official procedures for canonization.
01:03So the stories of the early saints were spread from person to person.
01:10And they gradually became legend.
01:14That is the realm where historical truth gives way to a spiritual truth.
01:24Sebastian is just one among many Christian martyrs before and after his death.
01:32Sebastian is a kind of prototype, a supreme example of absolute and undying faith.
01:44We know that he lived near the end of the third century AD.
01:47It's a period of great instability in the empire.
01:53We know that he was a commander in the Roman Praetorian Guard, which was a cohort of elite
01:58soldiers charged with protecting the divinely sanctioned emperor, Carinus.
02:07And we know that in the heat of battle, Sebastian and his fellow Praetorians turned on the emperor,
02:16the latest in a long line of unlucky rulers who had seized the throne and been quickly removed.
02:26They were led by Carinus' rival from the east, Diocletian.
02:38Diocletian took control of the empire as it was coming apart at the seams, splitting between east and west.
02:47He created a vast bureaucracy which allowed him to consolidate his power.
02:53He wanted to bring back the glory days at the Pax Romana to make Rome great again.
03:02A hierarchy of worship of our venerable Roman deities.
03:12This is a return to the official religion of Rome.
03:14What about the deities of Gaul? Or in the north? And what about all the Christians? There are too many now.
03:23It is time to purify ourselves. Simplify and purify.
03:29Dominus. Hold your tongue until I finish.
03:35If we are to uphold our responsibility as the rulers over this great dominion, which is most of the known world,
03:44then we must re-establish order.
03:50What about all the Christians?
03:56And that is what they have to do.
03:59Let us know what our Christians are.
04:01I agree.
04:03Let us know what they can do.
04:04Here we are.
04:05We are to stay in here.
04:08Let us know.
04:10You are to keep the guard.
04:12Why would every man in this chamber clamber to retrieve a trinket from the floor?
04:17I'll tell you why
04:20Because this trinket is our world
04:24And it rests in my hands
04:28I love Rome
04:37I love every cobblestone and every vista
04:45Two thousand years from now
04:47When Rome has taken on a grandeur
04:50We cannot even attempt to imagine
04:51I will sit at the banquet of the gods
04:55And smile with the certainty
04:57That I was one of those who maintained its might
04:59And its splendor
05:01I dedicate my life to you, my emperor
05:06Here, before you
05:13Here is another true Roman
05:14Can I say the same for the rest of you?
05:24Under previous rulers, Christianity had been tolerated in the empire
05:28But Diocletian reverted to the old ways
05:32He ruled by divine right of the Roman gods
05:36Making anyone who refused to worship them
05:39A threat to his power
05:41That was an act punishable by torture
05:45I was four when the young Dominus Gordian visited my homeland
05:56What days those were
05:58My father was called upon to prepare the welcoming scroll to be read by the governor
06:04And it was engraved on a marker that still stands
06:07I visited it recently
06:09It's in fine shape
06:10Do you know the Illyrian coast?
06:12I do, Dominus
06:13The Roman vineyards are superior, there's no doubt
06:16But I miss the Illyrian wines when I'm away from home
06:20When Gordian came
06:24They, uh, made the new wines
06:27Casks of it
06:28Do you like new wines?
06:32Or aged wines?
06:34Aged in gather caves
06:36Dominus
06:37Oh, yes
06:38Ha
06:39Gaul
06:40The wines are exceptional
06:43One day we'll bring casks from Gaul again
06:46Yes
06:48Dominus
06:49You know
06:52The world is our responsibility
06:55We can enjoy our wines and our feasts
06:58But only if we maintain our discipline and hold the ancient order
07:01I see that clearly
07:03Otherwise
07:05The wines will rule us and blunt our minds
07:08These debates about the Christians
07:17The word that always arises is
07:23Tolerance
07:24And if it were a simple matter of tolerance
07:28There would be no need for all the florid rhetoric in the Senate
07:31But tolerance does not hold dominions together
07:40But without our gods, who are we?
07:51I'm not making rhetoric, Sebastian
07:53I'm asking you
07:55Without our venerable gods
07:57We are nothing but blind men chasing their own shadow
08:00Dominus
08:01I see something in you, Sebastian
08:07You are a defender of the state
08:11Thank you, Dominus
08:16The threat of torture was always there for the Christians
08:31They couldn't gather to worship in the home of their pope
08:35Caius
08:36So they gathered in secret
08:39Salve
08:48Sebastian
08:50We rounded up a group of Christians at the old Macellum Manium
08:53Now we know their sign
08:56What sign?
08:58It's a fish
08:59A fish?
09:01Yeah
09:01Marcus and Marcellanus were among them
09:05Tranquilinus' sons
09:07That's correct
09:08Where are they?
09:10Nico Stratis' villa
09:11Thank you
09:15If it were up to me alone
09:27If it were up to me alone
09:27You'd both be quartered
09:30And thrown into the sewers
09:32But you're being allowed to make a small sacrifice to the gods
09:42And after that
09:44You will be free to leave
09:46You will never
09:48Get us to renounce our faith
09:51Well, that's good
09:53Because then
09:55I will attend to you personally
09:57You thought I was joking, didn't you?
10:06I didn't
10:07You can destroy our bodies easily
10:10Not our spirit
10:13I see
10:14So this
10:16Means nothing to you?
10:19Your faith is that great?
10:23You will pay for your sins
10:25Will I?
10:29And I can see from your face
10:31That you're paying for them already
10:33Well
10:41I do have another weapon
10:46And yes
10:48I think I'll get it
10:50Did you know that your sons were Christians?
11:05I see that you did not
11:10You've both brought shame on us
11:12And all our ancestors
11:13Shame
11:15Dear God in heaven, I pray
11:21Stop with your prayer
11:22We are in chains and you talk to us in that tone?
11:25Your sons have been given a very simple choice
11:28What choice?
11:29Our choice
11:29Is to be tortured
11:31Or to make a sacrifice to the gods
11:33So that we can walk away alive
11:35Yes
11:36And your arrest and imprisonment here
11:38Will be stricken from the record
11:40By imperial edict
11:42How dare you refuse this offer?
11:47You ungrateful little whores
11:49I'll make the sacrifice
11:52You won't
11:52We swore it to each other
11:55Look, they want nothing from you at all
11:58It's nothing
12:00It's everything
12:01Pretor
12:05Dear Sebastian
12:07You must explain to these brats
12:09That they have no choice
12:11They must make the sacrifice to the gods
12:12I cannot and I will not
12:14And neither will you
12:17I believe
12:20In the one true god
12:22And his only begotten son
12:24God
12:25You fool
12:26I won't speak to them alone
12:29Thank you
12:33Thank you
12:35As you say
12:40Pretor
12:40You're here to save us
13:09No
13:10I'm here to help you save yourselves
13:13How can we save ourselves?
13:18Don't you know what he's telling us?
13:20Brother
13:21Don't you believe?
13:24I do
13:24Then you must know
13:26That we only answer to the one true god
13:30Not to our ancestors
13:32Not to our elders
13:34Not to our father
13:35And not to our mother
13:36To god
13:37To god
13:37And only god
13:39That
13:40Is the only way of salvation
13:42Yes, but
13:45But what?
13:46How can we dishonor our father?
13:49How can we?
13:51How can you deny your god?
13:54His way
13:54Is the only
13:56Way
13:57What will they do to us?
14:01They can't touch you so
14:03You have nothing to fear for me
14:20This weapon
14:22Is not going to leave its sheath
14:25If the sword is not going to leave its sheath
14:29Then why don't you lay it down?
14:31Because if I do
14:31You're going to kill me instantly
14:33And you're going to force Marcy Linus
14:35To renounce his faith
14:36And then you're going to spread the word
14:38And cause the suffering of many more Christians
14:40Just to gain favor with Diocletian
14:42I could scream right now
14:45And you'd be arrested
14:46Perhaps
14:47But I will promise you this
14:51I will stand
14:53Here
14:54As long as it takes
14:57As long as what takes?
15:01The struggle
15:01Your struggle
15:04What struggle?
15:06For your soul
15:07Brother
15:28The struggle will be long
15:34But I will be here
15:52Go away
16:04It was impossible
16:32Unthinkable
16:33Nicostratus
16:35The terror of all Roman Christians
16:38Had converted to Christianity
16:40He freed all of his prisoners
16:44And he had his entire household baptized
16:49Sebastian even converted
17:06Chromatius
17:07Who was the prefect
17:08Or the sheriff of Rome
17:09Chromatius resigned his post
17:12And he freed
17:13And converted
17:14All 6,400 of his slaves
17:17Dramatic mass conversions
17:20Were happening at a rapid rate
17:22And Sebastian was at the secret heart of it all
17:25And he was going to be unmasked
17:31It was inevitable
17:32I love the empire
17:39I love the empire
17:57Say it myself
18:00I feel
18:04I feel
18:07I feel like I'm betraying my homeland
18:09Of course you do
18:11How could you not?
18:13You were trained to defend and uphold
18:15The glory and honor of the empire
18:18It was my whole life
18:21It was my whole life
18:21Yes
18:22It was
18:22Until now
18:24Now your life has another meaning
18:27Everything changes
18:34And in order for Rome to live
18:36Rome must change
18:38And allow people to live with a freedom
18:42That isn't allowed by the empire
18:44But given by God
18:45The only way
18:47Is the way of love
18:48And the way of Rome
18:50Must be the way of love
18:52You must bring
18:56As many people as possible
18:58To the south
18:59The time has come
19:00Many would rather stay here
19:04Than die for the faith
19:05But people must survive
19:07In order for the faith to flourish
19:09That is the most important thing now
19:11That is what we must accomplish
19:13Bastian
19:14You must remember
19:16Doubt is crucial to faith
19:18Real faith
19:20Otherwise it's just
19:23More blind obedience
19:24I see
19:28In the name of the Father
19:30And the Son
19:30Of the Holy Ghost
19:31I appoint you
19:35Defender of the faith
19:36Thank you
19:50After the exodus to the south
19:53Many of the leaders
19:55Of the Christian movement
19:57Were rooted out
19:58Nicostratus was killed
20:08And Marcellus and Marcellianus
20:14Were crucified
20:15You found me
20:45I was born in the name of the Father
20:46I was born in the name of the Father
20:47I was born in the name of the Father
20:48I was born in the name of the Father
20:49I was born in the name of the Father
20:50I was born in the name of the Father
20:51I was born in the name of the Father
20:52I was born in the name of the Father
20:53I was born in the name of the Father
20:54I was born in the name of the Father
20:55I was born in the name of the Father
20:56I was born in the name of the Father
20:57I was born in the name of the Father
20:58I was born in the name of the Father
20:59I was born in the name of the Father
21:00I was born in the name of the Father
21:01I was born in the name of the Father
21:02I was born in the name of the Father
21:03I was born in the name of the Father
21:04I was born in the name of the Father
21:05Yes, now I see it.
21:24I thought you would like the Stoics.
21:27But it really was a belief in your God.
21:30Not just my God.
21:32Yours as well, everyone.
21:35Sebastian, if it were anyone else,
21:39to me with the true heart of Rome, the everlasting empire.
21:42Only everlasting if Rome chooses the way of love.
21:44I haven't asked you to speak.
21:46I speak in the name of the one true God.
21:50He delivers us from evil and temptation and he lives in our souls.
21:54Shoot him full of arrows so that I can see right through him.
21:58Dominos.
21:59Dominos!
22:00You must let Christian belief flourish in Rome.
22:03You must let men find their way to salvation.
22:08To immortality.
22:10To immortality.
22:12To immortality.
22:14To immortality.
22:17We are God in heaven.
22:19Goodbye, Sebastian.
22:38Sebastian.
22:39We are God in heaven.
22:40We are God in heaven.
22:40We are God in heaven.
22:41We are God in heaven.
22:41We are God in heaven.
22:42We are God in heaven.
22:42We are God in heaven.
22:43We are God in heaven.
22:43We are God in heaven.
22:44We are God in heaven.
22:44We are God in heaven.
22:45We are God in heaven.
22:45We are God in heaven.
22:46We are God in heaven.
22:47We are God in heaven.
22:47We are God in heaven.
22:48We are God in heaven.
22:49We are God in heaven.
22:50We are God in heaven.
22:51We are God in heaven.
22:52We are God in heaven.
22:53We are God in heaven.
22:54We are God in heaven.
22:55We are God in heaven.
22:56We are God in heaven.
22:57We are God in heaven.
22:58We are God in heaven.
22:59Sebastian was found by a woman named Irene, who had come to mourn his death.
23:29But then, over many months, she nursed him back to health.
23:55We must move you to the south. No one will find you there.
24:00No. I want to speak to Diocresia.
24:25Dominus. Get away.
24:35It's Sebastian. Sebastian is dead.
24:40I've risen to continue our talk about Illyrian wines.
24:48You dishonor Rome by your wearing that uniform now.
24:53You dishonor Rome with your pagan gods and your two-faced treachery that has led our Dominus onto the wrong path.
25:00You've risen from your deathbed and humbled all the way here to tell me, your Dominus, who you once claimed to love so dearly, who you kicked away like an old whore.
25:10You are saying to me that I have been led on the wrong path for that you'll die twice more.
25:15I've come to ask you again to let Christianity flourish in Rome and throughout the empire.
25:20You must see this is the only way. It is the way of God. It is the way of the future. I beg you to listen to me.
25:27Jupiter and all the gods! Damn you and all your ancestors!
25:34Those pagan gods and the priests who venerate them are making a mockery out of you and wrong.
25:40Who's gonna seal this woman's mouth forever?
25:42And for your soul, Dominus. For your salvation.
25:57You once told me you saw something in me. How do you know this is not it?
26:05Take this man and beat him into jelly. This time finish it!
26:27You once told me you were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You were dead. You
26:57This body was dumped in a secret place, but Sebastian came to a fellow Christian in a
27:25dream, and he revealed a location.
27:55Sebastian became a saint before the process was standardized and codified.
28:16It happened in those early days by word of mouth, and it became legend.
28:23By the sun, if they have not sacrificed to the sun god according to the ancient rite,
28:40and have not obeyed the warnings, I will lash them with whips of scorpions and destroy them
28:47with exquisite torments.
28:53In the year 313 AD, Constantine I took the throne.
29:08I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible
29:28and invisible.
29:35I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all
29:43ages, God from God, light from light, true God from true God.
29:55Begotten, not made, consubstantial with...
30:02Constantine officially ended the persecution of Christians, and he ushered in the period
30:07known as the Peace of the Church.
30:13Before the century had ended, Christianity was made the official religion of Rome.
30:20In terms of Saint Sebastian, here we're dealing with something that's really close to a legend,
30:49in a way, a folk tale.
30:51And he became, what, the first...is he considered the first martyr?
30:56This first martyr is Stephen, actually.
30:58Stephen.
30:59Saint Stephen, yeah.
31:00But he's one of the early Roman martyrs, and as you're saying, the further we go back in church history,
31:07when you have early Roman martyrs, saints of antiquity, the martyrs of antiquity,
31:10it's not surprising that legends would kind of surround them.
31:14Sebastian is probably a simple man, but with great inwardness.
31:17His relationship to God and relationship to Christian faith, it's not just hidden,
31:22and that's an important part that it's hidden, but it's manifestly not for show.
31:26It's something that's going on in his inner life that marks it off really strongly against the public religion of the period, I think.
31:33Yes.
31:34He's navigating between his loyalty to the state, which is important back then, especially for Praetorian Guard,
31:40and his loyalty to God.
31:42So what's your ultimate loyalty?
31:44And for Sebastian, it's God.
31:45The Jesuits in Japan, too, everything being hidden.
31:49I keep coming back to his simplicity.
31:51His purity is, he's inviolable in a way.
31:54To me, our depiction of it here takes me back to early Christianity where it wasn't all about books and doctrine.
32:02This religion was based on custom, stories that were told, holy people that were remembered, stuff that was passed on.
32:11And so the story of Sebastian helps take us back before the Bible was consolidated and doctrine was developed.
32:18And it's amazing we have these stories at all.
32:20Yeah.
32:21So for some people who say, well, there's all these legends that accrue, and we have them.
32:26We have these stories going back to the earliest days of the church, which to me is remarkable.
32:29Yeah.
32:30Sebastian focuses on love.
32:32The religion of the future is Christianity, because Christianity is, for him, a religion of love.
32:37Philip Larkin, the poet, who is a deeply cynical writer, said, what will remain of us is love.
32:42And in some respects, Sebastian really got to the heart of the matter.
32:46Yeah, that's what survives of us is love, is the Larkin line.
32:49That's why we're still talking about him, because he cut through the bullshit and figured that out.
32:54Yeah.
32:55I love what Paul just said about Sebastian was really focused on love, because, you know, isn't that the one, that's the one commandment, isn't it?
33:04We're called to hate a certain group because they're not like us.
33:08And yet, your love or care for a person who's a member of that group can make you tolerant in a way you wouldn't normally be.
33:16I'm speaking about myself, too.
33:18Well, I think also that's the appeal of the saints, that people see themselves in their lives, and that they can identify a part of the saint's life that means something to them.
33:27And I think that's so beautiful.
33:28I think there's a saint for everyone, right?
33:30Because there's something that...
33:31Or they're all for all of us.
33:32They are, but I think there's a way that certain people gravitate towards certain saints, which I think is very beautiful.
33:38I always say my line is that you gravitate towards the saint because the saint is already praying for you in heaven.
33:44That's my theory.
33:45I feel so much better today, Jim.
33:48I'm glad.
33:49Yeah, I know.
33:50I need some help.
33:51We all do.
33:52The saints also, two roles for the saints traditionally in the Catholic Church, patrons and companions.
33:58So the patron is the one who prays for us from their post in heaven, but the companion is the one who is kind of our example, really, who shows us the way to live the Christian life.
34:07So there's two wonderful ways of relating to the saints.
34:10We haven't spoken about the miraculous nature of his being shot with arrows and somehow recovering from that.
34:17I mean, that does happen.
34:19People get shot in the head and live.
34:21I mean, really.
34:22It was fascinating that wherever the arrows hit, it missed the main arteries.
34:27It missed everything.
34:28And he was taking...
34:29It just so happens.
34:30And then it also raises the issue of like maybe, could be, I mean, just maybe one or two of these guys wanted it to miss.
34:38It's so funny.
34:39I think at that early time, not having the apparatus of the church as being, in some ways, you're closer to Jesus or something, but you're right.
34:57Yes.
34:58You know, I can go to mass.
34:59I can go speak to my confessor.
35:02I can pray.
35:03There are spiritual groups.
35:04Without being worried about being killed.
35:06Yes.
35:07To be able to do the things that they did under the threat of death is incredible.
35:12But the purity was there.
35:14They knew this was the revelation.
35:16This was the great change for humanity to survive, you know, and to evolve.
35:23So this guard has a vision of the future of that whole part of the world that eludes Diocletian.
35:29Yes.
35:30He's looking forward and saying, Christianity must flourish.
35:32Diocletian has got an empire to run.
35:34He's got to make sure that we're going to get back to, let's get back to our roots.
35:38Who are we?
35:39That's what we have to do here.
35:40It reminds me of that line in The Leopard, Lampedusa.
35:44Yeah, right.
35:45In order to stay the same, we've got to change.
35:47That's right.
35:48And on some level, that's what Sebastian's getting at.
35:50Yes.
35:51We want to carry Romanitas to the next place.
35:53It's got to be founded on this religion of love instead of a religion of temple worship.
35:58Exactly.
35:59And it does change.
36:00And it remains the same that way.
36:01With constant.
36:02The empire changes.
36:03A generation and a half later.
36:04A generation, two generations.
36:06I don't characteristically think of Christianity as the religion of the future.
36:10And that's the way it's represented in this episode.
36:12In other words, I was jarred out of my conventional way of thinking by that aspect of the story.
36:16I think it still is because it will evolve more.
36:18It's beautiful.
36:19I feel the heavy weight of the history of Christianity in the church.
36:22Oh, yeah.
36:23And this story just goes somewhere very different.
36:25Yeah.
36:26I mean, we have to understand, too, the institution of the church, I must say, is also greatly man-made.
36:32So it's subject to our faults.
36:35But he also knows that it's not about temporal power.
36:37It is the hope of the future, right?
36:39The church is always looking ahead.
36:42And I always think of the line of putting out your trust in princes from the Psalms.
36:47That Sebastian knew that.
36:49That it's about trusting God.
36:51How does one make this transition into this hopefully beautiful unknown future?
36:58Well, Pope Francis says, partly through the arts.
37:00Partly through making films and television shows about the saints.
37:05I will be joking with that of course.
37:07And then.
37:08blah looked the same sparkly on the gates.
37:11I'll see you doing this.
37:12Aren't you everinclusive a SOLID home tour?
37:18Do I have a moment?
37:28Yes, I'll see you.
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