00:00Well, welcome to the programme. Thanks for speaking to us. I would like to ask you,
00:04first of all, then, if I may, just like how you are feeling today, how you felt when you
00:10heard that news that your dad had been given such a long sentence, 20 years in prison?
00:17Look, we expected it, but still devastating, right? 20 years, it's almost comically long
00:24for a man that's 78. You know, by the end of the sentence, he'll be 100. But look, given
00:31the situation he's in, given his health situation, I don't even think he could serve a 10th of
00:36that sentence. He's in rapidly deteriorating health. He's in deteriorating physical health,
00:44you say. What about psychologically? I know you personally haven't been able to speak to
00:50your dad in years. You aren't able to go to Hong Kong yourself. But have you been able,
00:56through other people, to get a sense of just how he's doing today?
01:01Yeah. It was this bittersweet moment where, in the courtroom when the sentencing was announced,
01:08my father was stoic and he even flashed a smile, you know, almost as if a little act of rebellion
01:15to say that you will not defeat my spirit. And I think throughout it all, even though his body's
01:22deteriorating, even though now he's got heart issues, even though they've kept him in solitary
01:26confinement for the last five years, which is torturous, he's still strong of spirit and strong
01:35of mind, which is incredible. It's a testament to him as a person. It's a testament to the values that
01:43he's fought for in his testament to this man who has done all that he can to stand up for his
01:49beliefs of democracy and freedom.
01:51And look, your father, Jimmy Lai, is a British citizen. You're a British citizen as well.
01:55And you have previously said pretty explicitly that you do not believe the UK government
02:01has done enough for your father. You made those comments, particularly after Keir Starmer went to
02:07Beijing last month. So tell us a bit more about that then. How do you think the UK has failed your
02:15father? And what now do you want this government to do?
02:20Look, I think the government wants to get this done. It's been a long time coming. We've done a lot of
02:29raising my father's awareness, but it seems that the government wants to get this done.
02:34Obviously, I would have liked the prime minister to not have gotten over unless my father was
02:39released or not have given the embassy. But I think my father's case is a test for the
02:45United Kingdom, but also to other countries who love freedom. Here you have a man who's given
02:50everything he has for the values that unite us. And here you have China, Hong Kong, who is
02:58persecuting him, who's destroying their own legal system to get to him and imprisoning him for
03:04those freedoms. And if we're talking about closer relationships with China or with Hong Kong,
03:08my father's really should be a precondition. There's no normalisation until my father's
03:12free, because we're never going to normalise what they're doing to him,
03:17these horrible things that they're putting him through.
03:21Obviously, as I say, you're British and it makes sense that you're going through the British
03:24government on this. But I'd like to ask you, if I may, about Donald Trump, because at least
03:28according to the chair of the US Select Committee on China in the United States,
03:32Donald Trump also actively wants to secure your dad's release. Would you welcome the
03:38intervention of the US? Have you spoken to the White House on this?
03:42Yeah, 100%. We're so incredibly grateful for the amount of support that we've received from the
03:49United States, especially from the president of the United States, from President Trump. He has a
03:55strong record of freeing people around the world. And so we're very, very, very grateful that he
04:01has showed such moral clarity on my father's case. Look, I think it is a situation now where with the
04:08president's leadership, with the leadership of the United States, many countries have joined on
04:15for his call. You know, France joined as part of the G7 to call for my father's release. Many people
04:21see this. He and my father's story is deeply touched by it. They see the heroism in this.
04:28And they also see how wrong it is in how he's being treated. Look, in the end of the day,
04:36these values that we speak of, these values of freedom, of free press, of liberty,
04:41it's just air until someone acts it out. And this is how it looks like. This is a man who,
04:47at every turn, did the right thing. You know, when he could have left Hong Kong and left his belief and
04:55his people behind, he did not do that. He stayed and defended them. This is a man who, after five
04:59years of these conditions, is still holding strong. And can I just ask you, look, a final question?
05:03You have been such a vocal public campaigner for your father for years now. And so just for you
05:10personally, look, in the wake of this sentence today, are you feeling despondent? Or do you have
05:18hope, actually, still, that whether it is through the Donald Trump administration, or whether it is
05:23through Keir Starmer, that your dad will get out? I have hope. I mean, I fight, therefore, there is
05:32hope. Look, here's a man who, yeah, I mean, I think he's a man who's given everything he has for
05:40freedom. And obviously, everybody listening to this knows that he deserves some of that freedom
05:45himself. I think it is in Hong Kong's best interest and China's best interest now to see him free.
05:49Because what they're doing to him is not only embarrassing locally, it's embarrassing
05:55internationally. This is the abuse of a 78-year-old man who they've had this very long
06:02show trial for, and they've found nothing on him. So not only have they done this horrible thing to
06:07this man, this innocent man, they've also destroyed their legal system in the process.
06:15It's incredibly impressive how they managed to destroy Hong Kong's legal system that took
06:20decades upon decades to build to the global reputation that they have. And now it's been
06:25destroyed. And every single day my father is in prison is a reminder of that destroyed legal
06:29system. It's a reminder of how they treat people who peacefully campaign for democracy and for what
06:36is right. Sebastian Lai, son of Jimmy Lai, jailed for 20 years now in Hong Kong. Thank you very much
06:44indeed for speaking to us here on France 24.
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