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00:00Hi everyone, I'm Devin Blackshear. I'm the senior fashion editor at Essence and today we're going to be talking about Gen Z and the power of pivoting and my special guest is Chanel Howell. She's an executive recruiter and Survivor 42 contestant. So join me in welcoming Chanel.
00:19Thank you. You ready? Thank you. Yeah, it was a great intro. Thank you. Yeah, short and sweet. Okay, so this panel is about the power of pivoting and I know I've had a lot of pivots in my career. I know pivoting is very important in your career too.
00:49to grow it. So I kind of want to just hear about what it is that you do professionally right now and what that looks like on a day-to-day career-wise. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question because I feel like I am in the middle of a really interesting pivot right now. So my background, I've spent the last seven or so years in talent strategy and recruiting at some of the top investment banks and financial institutions in the world.
01:15And I had an interesting opportunity about two years ago to film a TV show that some of you guys may have heard of called Survivor.
01:24And, you know, I was lucky enough to have some time off of work to be able to do this super fun adventure.
01:30And more than just it being a great experience, I got access and exposure to people who were doing interesting, cool things and were all successful and thriving and they weren't chasing, you know, a corporate ladder working a nine-to-five.
01:45And it really opened up my mind to, there were, there are things that I could be doing, you know, outside of this path that I feel like I was force fed, like, which is, you gotta get a job and you work it for X amount of years before you retire.
01:57And, you know, it was a great experience to have access to that and to see that.
02:02And so fast forward two years later, I had a really interesting opportunity to go on TV again and this time, you know, didn't have, you know, the time off to, you know, pursue this passion project and so I had to make a decision to pivot.
02:15And so I now have since pivoted from investment banking to, you know, a TV and a career in TV as well as content creating and I've actually just launched my own recruiting agency in which I'm helping candidates, you know, step into their dreams of the careers of their dreams and, you know, new roles and things like that.
02:38And so I've been, you know, in an exciting pivot right now, but just so many doors have opened just from one pivot.
02:46Do you think that seeing how other people are able to do, you know, live their dreams and do everything they want to do, did that really impact how you approach your career and how you like reshaped stability and what that looks like for you?
03:03You know, it's so interesting. I think the most recent thing that's probably forced a lot of people to rethink stability was the pandemic COVID-19 where we saw the world flipped on its head.
03:14And I think for so long, right, when we think about the generations, baby boomers who were told you have to work your entire life, buy a house, retire and you should be okay.
03:25We were kind of given the same kind of formula as millennials. And I find that some of some millennials have rejected that, but some have, you know, still been slow to catch on that.
03:36There are many ways that you can be successful and make money and Gen Z specifically has completely rejected it and just shown us that, you know, there are ways to thrive in the most unsuspecting ways.
03:49And so I think that what you see is probably what you lean into. And until you see differently and until you know that like it's happened for someone else, why not me?
04:01You kind of subscribe to that. And so I think when you have those people in your inner circle, when you have those people that you're exposed to that are all doing really interesting, different things, you are then motivated and like you can see it up close and you get to ask the question, why not me?
04:16Why not you? Exactly. So do you let's talk about Survivor for a little bit.
04:21I kind of want to know because I grew up watching it with my parents and I can't imagine kind of, you know, erasing everything, removing everything from my day to day life to go on a show like Survivor.
04:33So what did that specific experience? How did it shape you? What did you learn that's going to help, you know, you move and pivot in the future?
04:47Yeah. Well, for context, if you guys don't know anything about Survivor, it's a show where you are on a deserted island, you're starving, you're sleep deprived, you're doing challenges, you're trying to, you know, beat everyone else out.
04:59So it's a little bit of a sabotaging and things like that and social strategy for a million dollars. And I did starve.
05:08But really, you get a lot of perspective because it's just you and it's the people around you and it's how do you sustain yourself?
05:17Like that is your immediate kind of focus. Nothing else in the world exists around you.
05:21And so it was an incredible existential experience where I got to question a lot of things about my life and, you know, how we live in excess and all of that.
05:32But I got a really, really great perspective out of it. I met really interesting people and I got to see what it's like to push your body past what you think you can do.
05:41Like it completely shifts the thresholds of what you can and can't do.
05:47Yeah, because I feel like growing up, we always like heard this narrative like you should be doing this, you should do this.
05:55Like this is the path to be on. And I think by asking questions and kind of like perspective, getting perspective, reshaping how we should actually be living it.
06:07It's so transformative. So, I mean, I think it's beautiful that you were able to do that and have that experience.
06:13I guess like how would you how would you, you know, guide other people in opening their mind in that way?
06:21Because it's not natural. It's not what we've been taught.
06:25Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that's such an ongoing question that I think so many people have, which is like, how do I color outside the lines?
06:34How do I step outside the box? How do I do things differently than what society or my parents or whoever is telling me what is right?
06:42And I think it's having it's a couple of things, right? It's about being intentional.
06:47I think one of the things that I realized is that so many people kind of just sleepwalk through life and you just kind of take the path that is is natural.
06:57Right. And and I think that number one is realizing, right, that you don't want to sleep sleepwalk through life.
07:06Number two, it's trying to figure out what it is that energizes you, that excites you, what fills you up, that passion.
07:11And then the third thing is having the courage and the boldness to go after it.
07:15I think we're all created with a purpose and you're either trying to find that purpose or you're trying to live in that purpose.
07:22And so I think that when you're not living in that purpose, there can create this imbalance in you where you feel unfulfilled or not happy in your day job or whatever it is.
07:32And, you know, I would just encourage everyone to figure out the things that excite them, you know, what fills you up.
07:38It doesn't have to be. And I think social media teaches us this now.
07:42It doesn't have to be something mainstream. It could be something super, super niche because chances are there's someone out there that identifies with it or, you know, likes it or is interested in it as well.
07:53Yeah, that's great. That's amazing. So let's talk about Gen Z.
07:57I know we're like, you know, we're millennials, but like very close to Gen Z and the Gen Z approach to work is kind of different than our approach to work.
08:08I think they've really like changed. Like we don't want to work just for a paycheck like we want to love what we do.
08:15So I just want to know your thoughts on like paid transparency and like working fully remote because it was so taboo when we entered our careers.
08:24Now it's like, no, this is how we want to work. This is how we're going to get or be the most productive.
08:31So what are your thoughts on the shift?
08:33I would have loved to start at my career working remotely.
08:36Really?
08:37I commuted two hours each way to New York City.
08:40No, I mean, Gen Z is a purpose driven generation.
08:46Like what I think about the main things that Gen Z steps into corporate America with or they just lead with in life.
08:54Number one is flexibility, you know, wanting to be flexible, wanting to move how they want, where they want, when they want.
09:02We're talking about a generation of people who literally finished high school and college from their couches, from their bedrooms, you know, had graduation ceremonies sitting on their couches.
09:14And so and they were successful. Right.
09:16And so now imagine telling those same people to be successful.
09:19You have to sit in an office for eight hours a day, five days a week.
09:22Like that's crazy. And so I think flexibility is something that Gen Z is going to really push for and cause the workplace to evolve.
09:32I also think that Gen Z, they are feelers. Right.
09:36If I think of like a Myers-Briggs test, they are a very a generation that's going to care a lot about corporate social responsibility and companies being good global citizens.
09:47And so we're going to see the Gen Z generation forcing companies to level up. Right.
09:53To care more about the environment, to take a stance on certain causes.
09:57I think we are transitioning from a time when we would go to work and it's just like be thankful for a job. Right.
10:04And like, you know, be a good employee to the employee employees forcing the employers of the companies to be better companies.
10:13Yeah.
10:14And I think the third thing about Gen Z is that they understand that they have options.
10:20Options.
10:21And so given that leverage, I think that the workforce is going to continue to evolve.
10:27And then we see that with pay transparency, like you said. Right.
10:30Yeah.
10:31And this kind of links back to them being invested in purpose and, you know, good causes.
10:37Pay transparency is created to fight pay inequity. Right.
10:42And so what we're seeing before is that if you start, let's say your entry level job at, you know, a pretty low salary because you didn't have the proper coaching or you didn't have the proper resources to know that you were supposed to ask for more.
10:55When you get into a new job, you're only going to ask for X amount higher than that. Right.
11:00Yeah. But if you were, you know, you know, your peer has started at a higher level because they had more access to resources or, you know, had been coached on how to do this thing.
11:11That's where the pay gap starts and that inequity continues throughout the careers.
11:16So things like pay transparency is, I think, another thing where we see the workforce evolving to suit the Gen Z generation where they are really, really focusing on how do we make company.
11:28Very true. Pay transparency has allowed me to really, you know, ask for more money.
11:34And that's something I didn't learn in school, asking for more money. So being able to even have these open conversations and dialogues with my peers on like what it looks like to be in this role and like how much money is being made has allowed me to, you know, guide through a career and like elevate.
11:52I guess my next question would be just speaking on, you know, health and wellness, because I think now we're leaning into mental health being very important to Gen Z, very important to corporations.
12:10So how have you shifted, you know, putting your mental health first over I need to get a job, get the job done?
12:19Yeah, I think that's something that came with experience. And again, my favorite word at the beginning of every year, I pick a word.
12:27My word for the year is perspective, perspective in that I listen, I'm not a surgeon. No one is going to die. Right.
12:34And when you have that perspective of of what's really important and how and again, like with the pandemic, right, like where you are in terms of value to a company, you can then start to prioritize your mental health and your priorities better.
12:51And for me, I think that I've seen, especially in the financial services industry where, you know, companies are now forcing you to take, you know, time off and forcing you to do these things because ultimately you cannot pour into anything else or perform at your highest if you are, you know, internally at your lowest.
13:11Exactly. And so that goes for work, that goes for passion projects, hobbies, relationships, everything.
13:18You have to be able to to have something to give. And so prioritizing my mental health is something that's been super important to me.
13:26And I know that, you know, at the end of the day, no one's going to die. Nothing's going to burn down.
13:32You know, then then if it can wait, it can wait. And I just try and keep that perspective.
13:37And I think it's so important to like, I mean, it's powerful to have that knowledge and knowing everything will be okay.
13:45I need to like make sure I'm good so I can be more productive.
13:49So what ways do you, you know, take care of your mental health or just like health and wellness in general?
13:55For me, I'm like a Pilates girl. I need also, I'm a morning routine person.
14:00So I like to wake up no phone and really just focus on, you know, no screens, being present to enter my work day.
14:11Yeah. I've recently done Pilates and props to you.
14:15Reformer?
14:16Yes, yeah. Reformer is great.
14:19But yeah, I mean, there are a lot of ways that I like to take care of myself.
14:22Number one, I, you know, have been super into working out lately just because it gives me a chance to, you know, like blow off steam and really like have community.
14:31And that's something that I really take pride in is finding community in places and finding people that ground me.
14:37I also love to meditate in the morning. Like I like to take the first, you know, 30 minutes to just put down, you know, what I'm grateful for.
14:46I have a gratitude journal. I know a lot of people probably have them. And again, it just helps me keep perspective.
14:52No matter what happens today, like these three things are going to make, make it a positive thing.
14:57You know, number one, my health, my family, you know, I have a roof over my head.
15:01And so when you, when you simplify things like that, I think that everything else kind of comes naturally.
15:09And, you know, there's one thing that actually really, I heard recently that also grounds me is like you can recover from anything.
15:19Like if it's a professional failure, if it's a personal failure, if you, you know, you, you know, you didn't do as well as something that you wanted to, you can recover and you have a new day to, to do that.
15:33Right. You have time ahead of you. And so I always like to keep perspective and, and make sure that I like note that in my gratitude journals.
15:40And it's amazing. I do have a gratitude journal, but I do not write in it every day.
15:45I'm more like affirmations, look in the mirror, like talk to myself, whatever works for you, whatever works for you.
15:51But like, I mean, writing is a way of releasing to you. So that's amazing. I want to now kind of open the floor up for any questions.
16:02So if anyone has any questions about pivoting career, raise your hand.
16:11Yeah.
16:12That's a really great question. Um, yeah, I think, and I like that you said intentionality, because I think when we talk about pivots, you have to be very intentional, um, with how you go about it.
16:34Because when you are intentional, you come to the table with a different set of skills because you're prepared.
16:39And so, um, for me, like I said earlier, I am in a very interesting pivot right now myself.
16:46And the things that I am being intentional about, intentional about are, you know, making sure that I'm present, right?
16:53Making sure that I am in spaces and I am present and I am like seeing everyone and, and trying to get to know them.
17:01Um, and you know, just, just seeing people. Um, and so that's something I'm being very intentional about right now.
17:07Um, I would say also just being very, um, intentional about my discipline.
17:14Um, and, and making sure that that's one of the things that I, I think that I think about every single day is like, am I being the most productive as I can be?
17:23Am I being disciplined? Where, like, where are my, my weak spots?
17:26And being very, um, just being very, very present about understanding those and, and being to be honest with myself about those things.
17:38Yeah. Do you wanna?
17:40Yeah. I would say like for me, community is such a big thing. Um, and I really take pride in the people that I surround myself with and that I have in my circle.
17:54And so I know anytime I'm feeling down, I can go to my circle, to my community and, you know, just talk to them.
18:02Um, I would say another thing that I love to do, especially now that it's summer, I like to go outside and go in nature, touch grass.
18:10That's what, that's what they say, right?
18:11It's grounding.
18:12Go in nature.
18:13You have to walk in the grass.
18:14Exactly. And ground myself in, in nature. I, I live in, uh, New York City and so Central Park is quite close to me and so I always go through a walk through Central Park.
18:22But, you know, find whatever it is that is in your vicinity or that, you know, makes you feel at peace or just, you know, quiets you for a second, no matter how small it is and, uh, lean into that.
18:35You're welcome.
18:36Any more questions?
18:39Yes.
18:40How do you know exactly when the pivot's happening and how do you accept it?
18:54Hmm.
18:55That's so interesting.
18:56Um, you know, I think that there are a couple things, right?
19:01When you are, you know, feeling uncomfortable, a lot of people think, think of that as a, a negative thing.
19:07I think that is exciting, right?
19:09And so I think when you feel discomfort, when you feel complacent, when you feel like you are going through the motions, it could be time for a pivot, right?
19:18Um, and then accepting it, honestly, I would just say it just takes betting on yourself and courage and being bold, right?
19:27And, um, there are so many exciting doors that open up that you least expect when you decide to take a bet on yourself.
19:35And so I would just say lean into the discomfort, lean into it.
19:39I'm not saying drop everything, right?
19:40You have to be pragmatic about it as well, right?
19:43But lean into the discomfort, put yourself out of your comfort zone and, um, you know, just try and be present when the opportunities present themselves to you.
19:52Yeah.
19:53I think it's important to take it one day at a time because those are growing pains.
19:57Yes.
19:58And it is uncomfortable.
19:59I've experienced them like as of recent too.
20:02And it's when you do bet on yourself, when you lean into, look at what I've done and look at where I am today, then you feel, okay, I can do this.
20:12Like, let me keep doing this.
20:13I've been doing well all along.
20:15Let me keep leaning into me.
20:18Exactly.
20:19Does anyone have any other questions?
20:22Yes.
20:23Well, I would challenge you to think about why it's not sustainable economically.
20:36Um, and I, obviously I don't know the details, but I think of like the way the gig economy has boomed and how people are making money off of literally playing video games, right?
20:49There are so many ways I think now to, to make money.
20:55And so I would just challenge you to think about why it isn't financially, uh, sustainable.
20:59Um, and I, and maybe it's not right.
21:01I don't know.
21:02Right.
21:03Um, I would challenge you to research who else could be doing this in your, in your field or in that industry that could be sustaining on that.
21:10And then I would also say, um, like pivots are hard, right?
21:14They're not easy at all.
21:15They're, I mean, pivoting is literally, I like to say, giving yourself grace and flexibility to lean into the things that, um, that you want to.
21:25Um, but heavy on the grace part because it's, it's going to be difficult.
21:29Um, and I would just say, yeah, just do, do, do the research, do the, do the groundwork and see if there's anyone else that does what you want to do and figure out how they did it.
21:41That's a great question.
21:55I like to always imagine what type of support I would have wanted if I was in that position.
22:01Right.
22:02And so I like to think like giving, giving that person a lot of grace, right?
22:06Because if you're in a pivot, you're in a transition, transition period, which means things might be up in the air, right?
22:12Maybe that means listening to them, get them a cup of coffee, you know, um, you know, spend time with them, understand like within your own capacity.
22:21Is there anything that I could do to help you?
22:23Is there anyone in my network that I can introduce you to?
22:26Are there any resources that I might have access to that I can share with you?
22:29And those are the types of things that I think, um, are ways that you can support people in your community that are pivoting, you know, within, you know, your own with that you might have access to.
22:42Any more questions?
22:46Okay.
22:47So before we close out the day, I just want to ask you, um, what do you have coming up next?
22:52And like, where can everyone find you on Instagram?
22:56Absolutely.
22:57Um, so I, I mentioned that I have done some more, um, on, on, on camera work.
23:03And so, uh, pretty shortly we'll have another show airing in August.
23:09Um, and so details to follow, but you can follow those details on my Instagram, Chanel Howell, C-H-A-N-E-L-L-E-H-O-W-E-L-L, TikTok, Chanel.Howell.
23:19And, uh, no, it was amazing chatting with you, Devin, today.
23:22I know.
23:24Yeah.
23:25All right.
23:26Thank you guys for coming.
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