00:00I started by asking him whether he had any hope of a breakthrough in Abu Dhabi today.
00:05Well, I hope that however this war ends is going to be agreed with Ukraine
00:11and that Ukrainian priority will be upheld because we need to remember that it was Russia who attacked viciously Ukraine.
00:19And I think that every crazy dictator in the world is watching, whether the West will be united, whether we will be strong.
00:24And being involved, does that mean then speaking, reopening the channels of communication with the Kremlin,
00:30as President Macron has suggested, or would that just be rewarding aggression?
00:33I mean, the most important thing is that President Zelensky's and the voice of the Ukrainian people is heard.
00:40And I think that we cannot try to come up with ideas that are going to be unacceptable for Ukraine.
00:47This is the most important thing.
00:48And I think that we should simply focus on that and not try to come up to a solution which is going to be unacceptable for the people who are attacked.
00:56Because that's going to be completely counterproductive and it will have a negative impact on the credibility of Europe,
01:03but also on the credibility of the United States.
01:05And there's lots at stake for Poland here, of course, a neighboring country.
01:08Are the Europeans having enough of a say, do you believe, in these talks?
01:10I don't think so.
01:12And I think that there will be no solution.
01:14There will be no security.
01:16There will be no rebuilding Ukraine without our involvement.
01:19So that's why it is absolutely fundamental for the Europeans to be involved and for our voice to be heard.
01:24And we also do not fudge the issue who was the aggressor.
01:28It was Russia.
01:29And we want to help the Ukrainians now in these very dire circumstances when they're being attacked all the time, viciously, the civil population, my sister city, Kiev and Kharkiv.
01:40And also after when it comes to rebuilding Ukraine and opening up the European perspective for our friends.
01:46And how are you making sure that you can keep that momentum on supporting your neighbor Ukraine, but also not harming your own security in Poland?
01:53We are strengthening our security as much as we can.
01:56We are investing almost 5% of our GDP in defense.
01:58We are strengthening our eastern border.
02:00We are investing as much as we can.
02:02We are taking responsibility ourselves, exactly as President Trump wanted.
02:06Now we need to convince other Europeans to do the same.
02:08But at the same time, we need to be helping the Ukrainians because they were actually fighting for our freedom and they were providing us security.
02:16They were giving us breathing space when it comes to rebuilding our security because the Russian threat is there.
02:21And if this war ends with Putin's success, then this is the gravest threat for the European security.
02:28And how real is the threat that there could potentially be an invasion in your country, in Poland?
02:32Well, I don't think that there is a great threat because fortunately, I mean, the Russians got their teeth knocked out by the Ukrainians.
02:39But if we give them breathing space, I mean, if we give them arguments in time to actually rebuild their military, unfortunately, they might stride back.
02:48They might just wait and then come back and test our resilience.
02:51I mean, they're doing it every time, you know, every day.
02:53There is a hybrid warfare everywhere.
02:56Misinformation, sabotage and so on and so forth.
02:58We need to be ready.
02:59We need to be resilient.
03:00Also, when it comes to the cities.
03:01And that's what we're doing in Warsaw.
03:02We're strengthening our resilience.
03:04We're learning from our Ukrainian friends and at the same time helping them in the time of distress when there are those temperatures minus 30 and Kiev is freezing.
03:13We're helping as much as we can.
03:14And you mentioned President Trump earlier.
03:16What do you think of his Board of Peace?
03:18Why isn't Poland joining us?
03:19We are looking into President Trump's initiatives because at the end of the day we want to keep the Americans involved.
03:25This is very, very important.
03:27This is not a question of emotions.
03:28This is not a question we are serious people.
03:30This is not a question of judging someone's behavior at a given moment.
03:34It's a question of European security.
03:36We need to be together because if Europe and the United States will not be together, all of our enemies, all of our foes will open champagne bottles.
03:45So we need to be aware of that.
03:46Does this administration, though, sometimes make you feel like you have to pick or choose Brussels or Washington, D.C.?
03:52Well, if you listen to President Trump's carefully, I mean, he said Europe should take more responsibility, right?
03:58He said there should be no free riding.
04:00Well, we understand it in Poland.
04:01We understand it in the Baltic Republic.
04:02So now it's a question of convincing other Europeans.
04:05OK, let's strengthen our capabilities.
04:07Let's strengthen our credibility.
04:09And this is, in a sense, a response to the wishes of the American administration.
04:13And at the same time, we, of course, need to keep the Americans involved because those are our closest allies.
04:20And if the threats are elsewhere, we should be absolutely certain that those relations are as good as they can be.
04:26And even if the Americans want to focus on other parts of the world, they need to be sure that someone has their back.
04:33And it's us, the Europeans.
04:35And we've seen the comments of Mario Draghi this week, the former head of the European Central Bank, saying that the EU needs to move from a confederation to a federation.
04:43That countries start need to be huddling together and moving at their own pace.
04:47What are your views on that?
04:48I don't like these labels because they do not really describe the Union, which is, you know, a beautiful construct because it's so original and unique.
04:56I think there are areas in which we need more integration, like defense, that's for sure.
05:01I'm not dogmatic.
05:02I don't think that we need integration, more integration in every field.
05:07Maybe there are places in which we integrated ourselves too much.
05:10I mean, we need a bit more flexibility.
05:12We need to be self-sufficient.
05:14But yes, there are issues like defense, like capital markets, where we need more integration in order to be a real player in the world.
05:21We need to be self-sufficient.
05:22We need to be self-sufficient.
05:23We need to be self-sufficient.
05:24We need to be self-sufficient.
05:25We need to be self-sufficient.
05:26We need to be self-sufficient.
05:27We need to be self-sufficient.
05:28We need to be self-sufficient.
05:29We need to be self-sufficient.
05:30We need to be self-sufficient.
05:31We need to be self-sufficient.
05:32We need to be self-sufficient.
05:33We need to be self-sufficient.
05:34We need to be self-sufficient.
05:35We need to be self-sufficient.
05:36We need to be self-sufficient.
05:37We need to be self-sufficient.
05:38We need to be self-sufficient.
05:39We need to be self-sufficient.
05:40We need to be self-sufficient.
Comments