00:00There's one thing you like to repeat, and that is that you believe, you're firmly convinced that trade is a force for good.
00:07Is that still the case?
00:08Well, 100%.
00:09I mean, the expansion of global trade has been unequivocally positive for the global economy and for people all around the world.
00:17It has helped lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
00:21Of course, I mean, global trade and the global competition that comes with it helps to bring prices down,
00:27and it helps to increase choices for consumers, it helps to drive increased incomes and opportunities for businesses,
00:32and hence drive stronger growth and higher incomes and living standards.
00:36But it is also true that, you know, we always need to think about whether the global market is well-functioning,
00:43whether the global rules by striding system is in good working order.
00:46And some issues have been appropriate, identified, that need addressing.
00:51But what we would say is we need to address them in a way that helps preserve the economic benefits of open markets and rules by stride.
01:00So I wonder, when you look at the EU at this point, what analysis do you make?
01:04We've had a very narrative of a declining continent that's almost fallen behind in every possible innovation.
01:11Others suggest there's too much doom and gloom.
01:13How do you see it?
01:14Well, the way I see it, first and foremost, is that Europe and the European Union as a project is an unequivocal success story.
01:22I mean, when you look at the history of Europe as a continent, I mean, by any measure,
01:27the last ideas have been a great success in terms of stability, in terms of peace, in terms of prosperity.
01:33I mean, yes, of course, there are challenges.
01:35There are things that need to be improved.
01:36There are things that Europe needs to reconsider in terms of the approach moving forward.
01:40And that would be what?
01:41What do they need to do?
01:42I mean, I think, you know, I think the conversation that is happening in Europe around making sure that Europe remains internationally competitive,
01:48making sure that Europe is positioned in the best possible way in the geopolitical context as it is evolving.
01:53I mean, these are all the joint conversations.
01:55But it's always important not to forget, in thinking about what needs to be improved, not to forget everything that's been achieved.
02:02I mean, you look at when I grew up in Belgium, you know, in the 70s and 80s,
02:06I wouldn't have been able to just travel to Poland or Hungary or Czechoslovakia as it was then.
02:13Now, I mean, all of these countries are successful, thriving, market-biased economies, part of the European project.
02:20I mean, like, Europe today is in a much better place than it has been.
02:25But yes, of course, Europe is facing challenges and Europe needs to continue to think about how best to meet the challenges
02:30and how best to pursue the opportunities.
02:32So, is there an element to perhaps self-confidence and pride that is lacking for Europeans and they need to regain in a way?
02:39No, I wouldn't make such a blanket statement.
02:42I mean, I think, I mean, Europe fundamentally is a great place to live.
02:46It's overwhelmingly a successful continent.
02:50And I think we need to put things into perspective.
02:52Yes, I mean, there are particular challenges.
02:54There are particular challenges at this time.
02:56But there are challenges that are longstanding and that are not just unique to Europe.
02:59But there are other challenges perhaps where Europe needs to think about how to position itself in the best possible way in the evolving circumstances.
03:07But this is, it will always be thus.
03:10But there will always be evolving circumstances to which we need to adapt and to which we need to position ourselves in the best possible way.
03:16And when you look at the deals that were cut with both India but also the Mercosur, is that something that you go, that is going in the right step?
03:23The appetite to talk to each other, the appetite to enter into agreements in the last couple of, in the last period, has actually increased, if anything.
03:33And that's also a good thing.
03:35There is, of course, Mario Draghi has come up again with this call to say the European Union needs to move from a sort of confederation that's not really working to a federation.
03:45He's also said we need to see radical changes.
03:47Otherwise, it's going to be a slow agony.
03:49Is that a message that you can rally behind and do you understand where he's coming from?
03:53Well, I mean, Mario Draghi is an exceptional leader, policy thinker, and I think that everybody would be well advised to listen very carefully.
04:02So you say listen to his message.
04:04It's not really for me to give advice to the European Union on this point.
04:08But when I think that Mario Draghi is somebody that everybody would be very well advised to listen to very carefully.
04:13So what do you expect to see this year now from a global OECD perspective beyond Europe and the United States?
04:18What is the outlook that you're hoping to achieve?
04:21Look, I mean, we will have a ministerial council meeting later this year, as we do every year in June.
04:26This year, we will be focusing on the interaction between industrial policy and trade policy.
04:30How can we ensure that industrial policy is well designed, well targeted, non-market distorting,
04:36and helps to achieve policy objectives in a way that doesn't detract from the future expansion over trade?
04:43Really seeking to support countries around the world to manage structural transformations in relation to digital and green transition,
04:52the energy transition, but also really to position themselves in the most competitive, successful way for the future.
04:58And it's not an OECD member, but since you talk about market distortions, is China your biggest worry?
05:02We deal with the global economy, and China is a big factor in the global economy.
05:09Obviously, nearly 20% of global economic activity.
05:13And there are, again, there are challenges and opportunities.
05:17Some talk about a big China shock.
05:18There are areas where we're concerned about market distorting practices, about excessive levels of market distorting subsidies,
05:25about, you know, and I mean, these are conversations that we need to continue to have.
05:29And certainly from our point of view, we would prefer if there was stronger alignment with, you know,
05:35market-based practices like those promoted by the OECD.
05:38We'll see you next time.
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